The Ice Queen Trope, Explained - Why She Always Defrosts

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All hail the Ice Queen. This cold and cunning leader reigns with her icy fist and piercing power. But beneath that icy surface, the Ice Queen typically struggles with more intense feelings than most of us, which is why she works so hard to keep everything under control. One of the most misunderstood characters of all time, the Ice Queen is someone who has been cast as a villain - often for failing to live up to heteronormative ideals of womanhood. And it’s telling that the phrase “Ice Queen” most often pops up as an insult a guy uses for a woman who doesn’t welcome his advances. So what is it about the Ice Queen that makes her worth rooting for? Here’s our Take on why her iciness might not mean what you think.
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[@abandonedfragmentofhope5415]

I'm so happy you actually gave screentime to Greta Garbo.

[@R.A.A.]

ICE QUEEN, DRAMA QUEEN... both misogynistic expressions aren’t as awful as the “ QUEEN SIZE BED “... why ? Because universally the standards put the queen size behind the king size, AND EVEN THE BIGGEST ONE OF ALL KNOWN AS: (SUPER KING SIZE)/(CALIFORNIA KING) 👿🔥 not even a *GENDER* - *NEUTRAL* name ! ..... like God or Pizza or any other neutral name 😝😂🚺

[@kaitlynmartin2075]

The Sexy alien trope. The Haunted House Trope. The sexy nerd trope. The urban fantasy trope. The dysfunctional family trope. The political shark trope. The sexy doctor and/or lawyer trope(s). Sky's the limit.

[@KitKatLag]

I like ice queens because they’re typically really hardworking, driven, and ambitious. Also, they’re often independent and extremely selective with whom they associate, which is relatable. I think they’re most likable when they exhibit some vulnerability with at least one or two important people in their lives. But when they’re unnecessarily cruel and excessively callous to others who don’t deserve it, they become so repulsive and almost irredeemable as characters.

[@trinaq]

I agree, Ice Queens work best when they're portrayed as strong, confident characters, yet let their guards down to people they trust. 💜

[@AxxLAfriku]

1k

[@normadgarmez7026]

Right on point

[@garrett3117]

So true. Super bad outcome though if they fall for you, you fall in love when they're feeling smothered. Bad for all involved. But yeah, a completely different experience. I don't think it can be created as a conscious decision (for image or whatever reason) in personal life. Something like trauma or extreme cynicism, higher neuroticism, higher anxiety/etc (increasingly likely in our environment) is likely the reason for it while growing up. Those are my observations anyway, cheers.

[@Leto85]

That there is an excellent explanation of both ends of this trope; the villain and the heroic one.

[@VidWatcher01]

15:55 "If a woman is strong she is considered unfeminine..." That is so true, especially for black women

[@bnadira212]

Facts

[@VidWatcher01]

@@Chris-rg6nm Not me. Strength has nothing to do with femininity so any woman of ANY race can be both.

[@kennedyjojackson1202]

@@Chris-rg6nm We don't, only because people use it to justify any abuse towards us. Sometimes it's helpful, but it's mostly hurtful.

[@Firegen1]

@@Chris-rg6nm You know it's more complex then that Chris. I say this cos I've seen you go for low hanging fruit on Take threads when you are bored and every now and again actually be insightful so lets get into it. Strong is vague. We are tired of endlessly stoic which absolutely a cultural and historical problem. Stoicism should be a choice not an expectation. Like other vague traits it virtue signals us into corner no one asked for. Personal accountabilty, social responsibility and community support is everyone's work. Often it's fallen on women of many cultures to fill in the gaps. From Mammys (black) to Mammies (Celtic). From servant here to slave there. Turn over the page for the second part of this essay.

[@msgirly6827]

@@Firegen1 he is definitely a big troll. I have seen his foolish comments as well.

[@DominicanaChika]

My family members have always called me Ice Queen for as long as I can remember and were shocked to find out that I was getting married. "Wow looks like someone melted your heart!" Hated that comment

[@EvaHedy]

You know what you should do, right? Don't invite them to the wedding, Queen.

[@tralaritralarajiju2652]

@@EvaHedy 🎤dropped

[@Sisimor]

I've heard similar comments my entire life.

[@Joy6168]

@Nymeria, I've been labeled as "the quiet one", "the stoic" and "Ice Queen my entire life too, I also hate the "Wow, looks like someone melted your heart!" comment too. Behave like the true queen you are @Nymeria, and don't invite people who made that comment to your wedding, you don't need them on that happy day, anyway.

[@porfiriodiazcarrillo7551]

the most cold thing an ice queen would do is not invite them to the weading. make then right by make it real.

[@mariapirog8936]

There is a mistake in caption: The Snow Queen cartoon used in the video was made in 1957, not in 1976, it is soviet animation classic

[@sophiasledge8410]

I would say that Miranda from Devil Wears Prada is an exception because Miranda never really melts. Or dies. At the end Andy leaves because Miranda continues to be the cold queen she always has been, even after she experiences heartbreak, and Andy can’t reconcile with it. But then again at the end she writes Andy a recommendation letter that shows her much warmer inner impression of Andy.

[@gaesimp__]

As someone who's been told they have an "icy" personality, I hated that women with my similar personality were portrayed as the villains

[@_Sakidora_]

Try having a posh English accent in Hollywood.

[@hannahdavenport707]

People expect women to always be warm and inviting, while accommodating everyone’s feelings. They say women are emotional as a bad thing, but also always want women to be showing emotion - mainly the positive ones

[@tiarezavaleta8850]

There's not winnig here.

[@trinaq]

"Some people are worth melting for." Olaf, Frozen❄️❣️

[@kennedyjojackson1202]

Ugh, Olaf will always have my heart 💗

[@homedepot.]

I have an Olaf plushie that I got from build a bear😭 I named him Ollie though🙂

[@kittykittybangbang9367]

Why do some people hate Olaf though?

[@mysterylovescompany2657]

My social shyness but also firm self-advocacy often got mistaken for being aloof, when I was younger, & I more than once got called an ice queen for it. Apart from the fact of being misunderstood, I never actually minded the title itself; there's no affection, but a certain grudging respect, in it. A concession of dominance, even. It's like the positive side of bitch. As far as epithets go, being named an ice queen is arguably one of the more flattering. Resentful or not, they're still calling you a queen.

[@IcySync]

LOL, a majority of Cersei's pain is her own doing. Her children died because of her idiocy and her pride. Quite frankly, she set up her children for failure the moment she conceived them with her brother. She is one Ice Queen that I don't feel sorry for. She may have been a victim at one point.. but then she went above and beyond and did 100x worse to everyone else around her.

[@lucialveroy]

I only got to read the first three books, but they've made me think about Cersei a lot. We get stories about her from Jamie's and Tyrion's perspective and know that she was mean since she was a little girl (I think that largely due to the treatment she got as a spoiled child). But then growing up the only thing she wanted was to be close to Jaime and they took that away from her. Of course, it's weird that she's in love with her twin brother, but they married her to an older man who she didn't know and who never bothered to pay attention to her cause he couldn't get over the loss of Lyanna. So she was away from the person she cared the most about and forced to have sex and be married to someone she hated. I'd be resentful as well.

[@iprobablyhateyou8426]

Yes, but at the same time, even if she was already a villain-to-be, her actions are very influenced by the Witch's prophecy. Not defending her actions, just saying that she never really had a chance of redeeming herself neither. Would she had become a good woman in the future? Chances are not, but there's a certain freedom of improving that she looses that night. She IS an ice queen because to her, being good meant letting her guard down, which would lead to seeing her children dead, a new queen take her place and her brother killing her. The funny thing here is that, as you said, she forces her own destiny with her choice of making enemies left and right, especially her own brother. She was so scared of the prophecy becoming true that she made it true with her actions. That is what makes her so interesting and complex.

[@latedala07]

This was a great video! As someone who's been called an ice queen at various levels of joking to not-joking, it was also very satisfying to watch and is really one of my favorite tropes. I am kind of surprised, though, that there were no examples of Black women or other WOC included, since this is a trope applied to Black/WOC women in media so frequently, usually under the story arc of "defrosting" them either by the "good colorblind" white friends/colleagues, or the love interest (which then gets tangled into "taming" them).

[@eizaian4285]

The "Snow Queen" animated movie you cite as BBC 1976 was actually created in 1957 by the Sojusmultfilm studio in the USSR!!!

[@zanymae8]

There are The Take videos about bad moms, ice queens, evil stepmoms, and moms who don't grow up, but what about a video discussing the loving, "perfect" mom and how she can't possibly maintain the level of selflessness and giving that she is expected to? I'm talking about the Molly Weasley-type characters, or the struggle that Sarah Jessica Parker tried to portray in "I don't know how she does it." Even these moms who are loving, giving, and try to provide selfless care can get twisted (Cersei Lannister) or simply burned out by fear for their children/family and efforts to keep the family shipshape even in the face of being resented, under-appreciated, and taken advantage of.

[@mgailp]

I've had the term "ice queen" hurled at me as an insult a few times when I was younger. My response, when I bothered to give on, was "Vulcan, actually." I'm glad to have had Mr Spock as my example of outward emotional coolness long before I realized the Disney villains were the traditional representation of someone like me.

[@alicedubois1348]

I should be writing my book instead of watching this... But these videos are just too good to ignore the notification.

[@jurggjon]

The Capricorn energy

[@KW-vy1rf]

So happy to see you include Rebecca! Such a wonderful character and her friendship with Keeley is goals.

[@madnessarcade7447]

I feel like Elsa is a unique case

[@trinaq]

Concurred! Elsa, as shown as a child, was always compassionate and warm. She only became icy after accidentally hurting Anna, and being scared about potentially harming anyone else. 😢💔

[@Cyssane]

@@trinaq More precisely, she became icy after her parents told her to "conceal, don't feel". Honestly her parents' terrible advice was the main driver for her iciness.

[@lauramac90]

She was meant to be the 'bad guy' but once Let it go was written, they changed the plot.

[@anastasiakolesnikova6542]

It is amazing that you know USSR “Snow queen” cartoon😍😍😍 I’m from Russia. And this film is a part of my childhood

[@Leto85]

What an amazing presentation of what I previously thought to be a stereotype character. I see a pattern in many female tropes here when looking at its history: they either need to redempt or die, while in modern times they are accepted and even teaches us about their own qualities. It's the same with the Femme Fatale and the Weird Girl alike, and probably many more. Good thing there are female storytellers nowadays.

[@delaneyvelvet9827]

I love every character that jessica lange or sarah paulson plays, esp ice queen characters, which i don't consider it an insult to b called an ice queen

[@madnessarcade7447]

You didn’t mention Regina from once upon a time or mal and Audrey from descendants

[@Missmagazinebura]

Ice queen from Once upon a time

[@madnessarcade7447]

@@Missmagazinebura that was elsa

[@kostaskaraganis]

it will be great if we see horror themes in the channel.... i'm a follower a long time, and this channel never disappoints... keep up the excellent work

[@victoriafolch-pi5824]

I agree with almost all of this except for you interpretation of Fiona Goode. You are right, Fiona is a warrior and if given the chance she could be a damn good leader. But she does all those things with an ulterior, selfish motive in mind (stealing the youth and power of the next supreme) and she is really abusive toward her daughter, Cordelia. She does have a positive side, but she is repressed, confused, constantly in survival mode, and she is fundamentally selfish because of all those problems. I know you were trying to put a positive spin on her but everything she did in the season was ultimately for her own self-serving goals, not for the welfare of the witches she was supposed to look out for.

[@rueveluv]

I'm surprised Emma frost (from x-men first class) wasn't in this ,she may not be the most "ice queen" like character but she is a version of the trope

[@BereniceJimenez94]

So good you cam with this, after the Harry Potter video I was doubting

[@UnboxingAlyss]

As others would have said, I wouldn't count Elsa. While she may be a literal ice queen, she doesn't really fit the trope. As much as I hate Frozen, I like her quite a bit. While Fiona did take steps to protect the coven, she did everything for herself. One or two acts of kindness doesn't erase a whole lifetime of cruelty and selfishness. I'm surprised (and a bit pleased) that they included Tigress from Kung Fu Panda. Easily one of the iciest characters in a kid's movie. Her anger stemmed from jealousy. She felt she wasn't loved as much as Tai Lung after his betrayal and while all of the Five were disappointed at not being chosen, she clearly took it the hardest. Yet, after Po defeated Tai Lung, she was the first to recognize him as "Master" and became his closest ally. She still retained her no-nonsense attitude, but definitely grew warmer in the second movie. It's a shame she was reduced to a babysitter for someone else's kid in the third. :-(

[@OpticalSorcerer]

Elsa and Jadis will always be my favorite "ice queens." Always fun to look at the cultural/societal analysis of all these terms/tropes.

[@sammyvictors2603]

I see Jadis as a superhuman sociopath, from a family and homeworld of superhuman sociopaths. In the books, her grandfather is stated to have murdered all his nobles merely for having rebellious thoughts.

[@OpticalSorcerer]

@@sammyvictors2603 I was so pleased when I read her origins in "The Magician's Nephew!" It was a satisfying explanation of the creation of Narnia and Jadis' involvement. I hope Tilda Swinton will return as her if they ever revive the franchise.

[@noahorakwue2653]

I never considered Elsa or Mary, Queen of Scots as Ice Queens. Not only did Mary get married twice and had a child, her enemies are hostile toward her because they want her crown/power they didn't want her love they wanted her submission. P.S. I never felt sorry for Cersei Lannister!!!

[@_Sakidora_]

Yes, they were really reaching with Mary.

[@xtremelovin]

This is actually very accurate (for the most part). I was personally, on several occasions, called an Ice Queen (and worse) for rejecting men that I never even showed romantic interest in. And no, I wasn’t “leading them on.” They led themselves on. Likewise, my decision to delay motherhood in order to go to school and expand my career was continuously questioned by family and even strangers. They didn’t do it with bad intentions, by the way. They were just so socially conditioned they didn’t even realize it. So, this reflects the actual experience of many women. This is not just fiction. Even now, in my 30s, it continues. We need to stop villainizing the “ice queen” or the “blonde” or the “house wife” and realize the complexity and beauty that exists in womanhood. We’re not one dimensional tropes, we can be a smart house wife, a caring career woman, a serious blonde, etc. I’m glad we’re making a move toward treating women as more than stock characters and more like the complex human beings they are. Your videos sure do help.

[@witchshairlichen]

In the book The Gilded Wolves by Roshani Chokshi, Zofia is described as an ice queen. She's the engineer, and is heavily implied to be autistic. She doesn't 'thaw', because she was showing people her feelings and caring about them right from the beginning, just in her own way. Her character arc is about trying new things in her own way, and struggling with the idea that she's a burden on her friends. The third and last book in the series comes out this summer.

[@chikai.3866]

Missed the opportunity to include clips of Regina/Evil Queen from Once Upon a Time in this

[@collinmiller4721]

Pound for pound this is most often the character type that becomes my favorite character in whatever story they’re in.

[@Erin-McLaren]

Have they done a take on the "gypsy" or traveling people trope?

[@98schild]

Why all the ice queens having hair like snow ?

[@cui8789]

I'm currently watching a show called Burden of Truth. I think the female lead fits into the more positive depiction of this trope.

[@leticiagm4962]

Please, please, put subtitles on your videos. They help everyone and would give access to a wider audience. Even if they are just in English, they would help so much!

[@p.b.4464]

Thank you, The Take! Enjoyable as always. A sluttly grandmother trope would be fun, but it may only be a gag at this point. Fellow commenters, let me know if there are any that I don't know about. The following are the only I can think of, and I don't think I have the patience to scroll through all the search results Elder pornography. 1.Cloris Leachman in Beerfest 2.Cloris Leachman in Grandma's Boy 3.Blanch from the Golden Girls 4. Barney's mom from How I Met Your Mother

[@bonniestar7583]

the mom from 2 and a half men

[@tarttartan7130]

So is this a trend? With this and the Take on the Bimbo. That every trope is a misogynist attack? That being a puppy killer or being shallow and materialistic are just not bad. Because they're really just made up attacks by male authors against them? And no, the Devil Wears Prada is not inspirational. It's about a bad boss. Just like working for Breaking Bad Dad or Mad Men boss would be.

[@eldron29-a54]

All media was men controlled /created and with hetcis male gaze in mind, so yes, probably all the tropes that involve women are gonna be misoginistic. No surprise. Most of the evil women characters who are bosses are basically a guilt trip for women with ambition.

[@_Sakidora_]

@@eldron29-a54 Simplistic twaddle.

[@arnepianocanada]

Study males in film? 'The Courage to Raise Good Men' (Silverstein & Rashburn) states that guys grow up goaded to stifle emotion (What a crybaby!), then can't deal with it as adults - e.g. domestic abuse a result.

[@korviscapetrova5269]

I really really loved the White Witch from Narnia

[@kenikelayla]

Who else was waiting for Meredith Blake to appear “ooo, ice woman” Meredith: Proud of it, babe! Classic

[@geisy9627]

This reminded me of Elektra Abundance from Pose

[@soumyashrivas2912]

5.40 so relatable

[@MickeyMouse-ef4ez]

I thought you would mention Sue Sylvester from glee.

[@aleksshev5506]

The cartoon used in the beginning for the Ice Queen part is not BBC, it is the Soviet adaptation. :)

[@mayatoll1443]

You missed Petra from Jane the Virgin!!

[@derrrk3834]

Elvira Hancock is an underrated ice queen. She neither thaws or is defeated she disappears at the end

[@elektra121]

Actually, the SnowQueen from the Andersen fairytale isn't the one who has to be defeated. Nor is she the villain of the story, that's the Devil, who has nothing to do with the SnowQueen whatsoever. She simply is a manifestation of winter and rationality - which is not a bad thing in itself nor does it have to be defeated. She even has caring traits - helping the vine plants growing. She is a true Neutral. There is no "fight" or anything with the SnowQueen, she grants Kai his freedom herself. The thing that has to be defeated is the devilish power of the mirror shard in Kay's heart that was made by the devil - and in thus, Kay - in trying to act grown-up- being too rational, too cool, too "adult". That is a thing for SnowQueens, yet not for humans, adult as they may be. It's no surprise the fairy tale ends with Kay and Gerda realising they have grown up.

[@lawencita6303]

Every time they say Elsa from Frozen I hear Elphaba from Wicked

[@noneyabusiness6504]

Min 5:14 reminded me of Zuko from Avatar the last airbender.

[@tolgak2717]

I think in Notorious it was Cary Grant who is the ice queen, not Ingrid Bergman.

[@rodgomola]

I can't believe that you're defending Miranda Presley's abuse in the workplace 'cause ''feminism''. You justify a lot of villainous and toxic behavior because of ''feminism''. Also, Cruella is not an Ice Queen, she is not cold and she is not shy with her emotions.

An amazing Ice Queen is Regina in Once Upon A Time ♥️

[@v6llainy]

you should've included emma frost perfect example of an ice queen

[@HaughtyHedonist]

Let's Not Try To Sympathize For Cersei, She Was A Wicked Child Long Before She Became An Ice Queen.

[@TabbyeLynne]

Please do the older child (usually an older sister) raising her younger siblings trope. There are so many, Nani from Lilo and Stitch, Fiona from Shameless, Seita in Grave of the Fireflies, Daya from Orange is the New Black, Buffy from Buffy the Vampire Slayer, Lizzie from Instant Family, Alec Lightwood from Shadow Hunters, Laura Kinney from X-Men, Lynette from Desperate Housewives, Viserys from Game of Thrones, Violet from Mom, Peter and Susan from The Chronicles of Narnia, Ree from Winter's Bone, Sue from the Fantastic Four, etc.

[@massetozacarias5693]

I can relate to this I have a younger brother and he's in the rebellion phase

[@AnonymousOnimous]

THIS.

[@IckyNicky67]

Yesss. I was watching Blue Crush for the first time in years the other day and the main character fits this trope too, since she's forced to raise her younger rebellious sister while her mom's out of the picture.

[@alexemily4749]

Katara from Avatar

[@yanelluviano]

This and show the good and bad. I raised my siblings and I realize as my sister gets older I did take out a lot of my anger and stress on her. I try to make up for it everyday even if she doesn’t see it as badly as I do. I know what I did might have hurt her but she’s too young to understand. That’s why in her teenage years I want to be the best and most supportive big sister.

[@sergiovela7686]

"it's just my people are nordic" still takes me out to this day 😂, Betty has amazing comebacks

[@marvel096]

Iconic

[@greyLeicester]

What people? She is an American

[@davriecaro3036]

@@greyLeicester During the dinner party ( the one where she wore the polka-dot dress, she said her grandmother was German)

[@owenmccord5078]

@@davriecaro3036 Ampy is just being silly. That said Betty’s character was well educated.

[@davriecaro3036]

@@owenmccord5078 Oh okay, sorry for the misunderstanding (that is the thing with online you cannot hear the person's face to tone to see if they are telling a joke)

[@Vashtibucket]

I didn’t realize I was waiting for this until it came out. As a Latina I can’t tell you how many people expect me to be fun and flirty and when men approach me they expect me to see it as a compliment and get their egos bruised when I don’t, then call me “bitch” or “c*nt”. As I get older I find myself sparing feelings less and less. People are responsible for their own feelings and how they react, it’s not on me. Why should I try and fit their expectations or their preconceived notions about me? Thank you for calling this out!

[@houseofmatrix6174]

I’m sorry that’s been your experience

[@lesbiangoddess290]

Same as a black girl, we are expected to lower our expectations because well you can guess and its honestly tiring.

[@Joy6168]

I’m white, however, even I’ve had to deal with this double standard as a woman with morals and ambition who isn’t flirty, @Vashtibucket. I’m not lowering my standards just because society is corrupt.

[@tralaritralarajiju2652]

Same, sis. Latina girl here and I remember watching Frozen and crying a lot when I view myself in her. And my family just realized that I am not just cold and that's it. This came from trauma.... Now I am better, I went to therapy and I reconected with my femenine and soft side. By myself. No man came to "melt my heart"... In fact I have never been in a relationship or has a boyfriend and now that I am better mentally, I am preparing myslef to be a homemaker because I want to... I am glad you choose your friends wisely, that has to be done👌👌👌

[@sarahcristina4656]

@@Chris-rg6nm watch the video The Spicy Latina here form The Take.

[@olaitanjoydamilola4481]

"Must you flirt" "But I find it natural." "Suppress it."

[@lauramac90]

I laughed out loud at that part 🤣 such a good line.

[@izzywoods794]

😂😂

[@kaitlynmartin2075]

What's that from?

[@madnessarcade7447]

Elsa was originally intended to be evil but they scrapped that idea They made the smart choice

[@trinaq]

Seconded, I love that they made Elsa more sympathetic, and we grew to understand her motives more once we saw her internal conflicts. ❄️

[@starrsmith3810]

Idk, i love Elsa’s character but that sounds interesting

[@CamReeds]

The movie would have been better if she were evil

[@SunnyIntervalsORG]

I think a critical moment for Elsa was being captured by Hans and his men. If she'd managed to fight them off then she probably would have become the traditional evil snow queen: She would lock herself away in her ice palace with no-one brave enough to challenge her or mount another attack, and Anna would have died of her frozen heart. As a result Elsa's guilt, heartbreak and isolation would have driven her to madness.

[@1992disney]

Ever heard of a morally gray villain?

[@manasvisharma4990]

I love this take so so much. The double standards for working women are real. The same qualities for which men are called geniuses, creative thinkers and ambitious are changed into "ice queen, masculine, cunning, bossy, shrewd" When a woman possesses them. It's patriarchy in it's finest form hurting women who refuse to bow down and change their personality or decisions to conform to societal norms.

[@christianalexander6364]

“Patriarchy” what? It just reflects what we already know, in general men and women dont value the same exact qualities from each other, usually women find high earning men with financial stability a more suiting and attractive partner meanwhile most men dont really care about that stuff, we appreciate it but dont see it as attractive, men are mostly guided by physical attractiveness more than anything, thats why men’s peak attractiveness usually comes in their late 30s where theyre economically stable, meanwhile women’s peak attractiveness are usually in their 20s. We value different things and thats okay, you have the right to embrace a career driven life as a woman but men also have the right to not find that specific trait attractive, nothing to do with double standards.

[@mittenista]

@@christianalexander6364 TLDR: Men be shallow

[@christianalexander6364]

@@mittenista Shallow? Wanting your partner to have economic stability could also be considered shallow with that logic, its just different preferences presented by genders, what a lazy response.

[@mittenista]

@@christianalexander6364 "I want a partner who doesn't care how I look or how much money I make. I want her to love me for me, and who I am on the inside. No fatties or uggos though."

[@wickedwonderland9831]

@@christianalexander6364 You clearly have a psychology degree and can back all of this up. Finally, this man has discovered the secret to real human connection that will last a lifetime! I'm 6'1, how far down would that put me, rating wise, in your arbitrary rating system for female attractiveness?

[@kokijavier]

I was surprised at not finding any Nicole Kidman's performances here

[@dr.braxygilkeycruises1460]

Especially her role in *To Die For* which was scary as heck. She was the quintessential Ice Queen in that movie! Also, they didn't include anyone of color (as always). Olivia Pope is a poster model for Ice Queens.

[@sophiatalksmusic3588]

Anyone else familiar with the trope in a lot of rom-coms with the bubbly, “silly” girl and her friend (sometimes sister) who’s career-oriented and intelligent, and when they both get love interests, the career-oriented girl always ends up with a laid-back man who “teaches” her to be less driven? I always thought this trope was odd, and pretty annoying.

[@DawnSkyStudios]

"Princess and the Frog"?

[@alexandraguardian9840]

@@DawnSkyStudios Actually, I think that's a subvertion because, while it seems like you said, at the end, Tiana does get emotional (and manual) support from Naveen when it comes to her business dreams. It was refreshing when I saw it.

[@tariqthomas9090]

Elsa is a wonderful deconstruction of the Ice Queen trope. She’s tries to be cold and heartless in order to protect those closest to her, but she has overwhelming compassion and warmness that she wants to embrace.

[@1992disney]

Actually, she should've been the villain as she was originally intended to be instead. But she wasn't going to be just another typical antagonist. She was going to be a morally gray one.

[@monabohamad2242]

@@1992disney glad she didn't end up being either of those 2 last things you've mentioned

[@1992disney]

@@monabohamad2242/videos Shut up, feminist.

[@DLibera]

I loved this take. My mother was an ice queen. She wasn´t a career woman, she was a house mom (I find it hard to say "house wife". In Spanish we call the same role, "house master", or "House owner"... (ama de casa). The woman who stays at home). She was regarded by most people as a cold woman, bitter even. But she was the best mom. A protector, and very nurturing.

[@alexandraguardian9840]

I think you mean "Housewife". My mother is the breadwinner of our family, but ironically (for some people), she is actually very optimistic and sweet. My brother-in-law calls her "Señora Chocolate" (Mrs. Chocolate). She doesn't deny reality either and encourages me and my sister to do what we want to do at our fullest effort.

[@DLibera]

@@alexandraguardian9840 "Señora Chocolate" ... I love the nickname. And yeah, I meant housewife. I just wanted to make the distinction that the literal meaning of "ama de casa" sounds more like she is the one calling the shots, while "housewife" sounds a bit like she's subjected to the actual boss. Dunno if that makes any sense.

[@alexandraguardian9840]

@@DLibera It's okay. If someone called my mother subjugated as an underling to my father, I would get mad or uncomfortable too.

[@anacarolinavallarino6428]

“I choose violence” Ah yes. Queen Cersei.

[@alchanel7233]

“the ice queen” has always been my favorite villainess, she’s hurt, misunderstood, and scared of getting hurt again. If you know an ice queen, help them and focus on rehabilitating her. I love movies where there are ice queens as characters, literal or not. Any suggestions?

[@Joy6168]

I'm writing about a few as protagonists in books I'm writing, @Al Channel.

[@sophiatalksmusic3588]

If you’re into opera, “Lady Macbeth of the Mtsensk District” (or “Katerina Izmailova,” if you want the film version) is a fascinating take on this trope. Based on the Nikolai Leskov novel of the same name, which presents its main character as a villainous, scheming woman who murders her husband and father-in-law after being sexually assaulted (and falling in love with the rapist), the opera by Shostakovich is an interesting update and revision, where Katerina is portrayed as a sympathetic character forced into her situation, as are the other female characters in this adaptation. While Katerina’s scheming character can be considered an “Ice Queen,” this is because she has nowhere else to go. The opera exposes the tragedy of her situation, shames the men who take advantage of her, and portrays her as a complex heroine whom the audience is intended to sympathize with.

[@samiram845]

Regina (the Evil Queen of Snow White) has a redemption arc in Once Upon A Time. I loved every second of character development. Not to mention she's still fierce & protective by the end of it.

[@alchanel7233]

@@Joy6168 thats so cool. Keep working on your novels. I am writing one too although it doesn’t have any ice queens in maybe i should incorporate that.

[@alchanel7233]

@@sophiatalksmusic3588 that sounds interesting. I’ll have a look thanks

[@roonarific1086]

I think most 'ice queens' are just misunderstood INTJ/ENTJ females.

[@timothyo718]

ESTJ/ISTJ as well. Both have low Fe and Fi and lead with pragmatism Te.

[@nourhajj4999]

INFJ can be too, only shows some warmth to people she loves and trust. It's almost like "Off and On" thing.

[@paemonyes8299]

@@nourhajj4999 most infjs in media become mystical characters tho

[@nourhajj4999]

Umm... I'm an INFJ and I acted cold because I "Door Slammed" someone because of pain.

[@sakhilepadi3501]

@@nourhajj4999 I'm INFJ and some people think I'm a heartless bitch and others think I'm the best thing ever. It depends which side you get on😁.

[@adayae1999]

If you can make a video about how older women are represented in movies and series. The movie that came to my mind is sunest Boulevard In which the actress is terrified that the time will come and her fame as an actress will be behind her. I am doing a seminar on the subject so I would love if anyone could write me ideas in the comments. Or also about the beauty model related to the same subject. Thank you :)

[@altycoggydeer]

I could really recommend you film Antonia's Line by Marleen Gorris, it has quite optimistic representation of many generations of women of different age and tells it's story through a femenist lens. Also I adore Netflix's series Gypsy by Lisa Rubin, the protagonist is in her 40s and her character is really developed and deep. In both film and series the age isn't an important part of the plot, Gypsy is more about identity and psychotherapy and Antonia's Line is more about being who you are in a society of obscurantism and violence.

[@yundorphin]

They did a video on sunset boulevard

[@adayae1999]

@@altycoggydeer Thank you👍🏻

[@adayae1999]

@@yundorphin Thanks

[@nowwhat8209]

I believe it's because women are judged by their youth and beauty, therefore older women are seen as "ruined". It probably ties into fertility and how women are pressured into having children more, or more often, than men.

[@Sisimor]

Thank you for bringing attention to the blatant misogyny behind Ice Queen trope. Ice Queens are ambitious, assertive and driven and I love them for that.

[@lukashillebrand9670]

Also if they don't thaw a bit from time to time they might come off as very unfriendly to other people in general, which will inevitably result in them portraying Ice Queens as evil or at least ill willed.

[@lilil9752]

Elsa doesn't really count.She is only emotionless by a couple of seconds.I like the ice queen characters but her defrosting by "love" or children is getting old

[@PrincessLioness]

@ImAProudIndian So then is Anna is an ice queen because she fits that’s description.

[@tiffanypersaud3518]

I think she okay. Since as a child she was taught to "conceal, dont' feel". And that's rather toxic in that she was not "allowed" to feel such a primary part of herself and express it, and that continued into her adulthood as well. It was further reinforced by trauma because she accidentally hurt her little sister, and her parents, while it was later revealed that they were voyaging for a way to try and help her, continued to have her suppress her powers so she never really developed proper control of it until afterward. Her "ice" was because of conditioning and trauma. And she slowly learnt how to address that, which is a rather complex theme for a kid's series of films, if you ask me.

[@PlatypusGuitar]

Episode suggestion: a take on inspiring disabled people. I would love to see you talk about inspiration p0rn, about how disabled lives are seen as less valuable, how people treat disabled people like children and so on

[@hannahretel1073]

YES

[@indigoziona]

Yes, great idea! So much to explore. The difference when a disabled character is played by a disabled person, disabled characters as supporting cast etc.

[@jessicavictoriacarrillo7254]

They can even mention Walter White Jr from Breaking Bad

[@wickedamoeba8719]

I always looked up to ice queens and wanted to be one. They’re gorgeous and so strong. But I wear my heart on my sleeve and I’m too much of a screw up to reach their level of efficiency.

[@sourgummiescureyourpain4555]

Hah, same. It's hard enough to keep my composure when someone is shitty to me. Was hard to realize that I'm not made for power plays and office politics. But everything has its upsides. We can score points with honesty and competence.

[@Pinkranger87]

Same here

[@jgrd]

Same. A lot of my favorite characters/women in general are ice queens.

[@jdg9825]

A lot of ice queens become gay icons too, and I wonder if that speaks to growing up bullied, like the idea of being able to not care and eviscerate people with just your words; the idea of being powerful AND effeminate

[@lenan5913]

I think Medusa is one of the oldest misunderstood ice queens. She's got a cold exterior and hurts everyone that gets close to her but not because she's evil. It's because that's the only way she knows how to protect herself and its what kept her alive for so long.

[@madnessarcade7447]

While she is an ICE queen She’s not an ice queen Elsa has a kind and compassionate and selfless heart

[@trinaq]

That's true, Elsa hid that side of herself, terrified that she'd accidentally hurt someone else. She later becomes a whole lot warmer and more confident in herself. ❄️

[@zitronentee]

Ikr. It's her defense mechanism, not really a part of her personality.

[@madnessarcade7447]

@@zitronentee true

[@madnessarcade7447]

@@trinaq she was always warm she just needed to stop being scared

[@angelrae3660]

I think others around her perceived her as an ice queen. But you're still right, deep down she is kind and loving.

[@kendrickhering7725]

9:05 No, do not defend the character that literally killed an entire planet out of Spite. Edit: She's also not from Narnia, she literally came there to take it over.

[@bonniestar7583]

exactly the comment I was going to make

[@Privykos]

I agree. But maybe they are just looking at her in an objective way. I read the books. And nothing much besides her wishes to conquer are stated, yes, it's true that she is not narnian and she is only after power and absolute control, but so all queens, witches and basically any woman in a position in power has been portrayed...idk just saying

[@maragrimaldi7440]

They really took the feedback serious, they got for their ridicoulous Harry Potter video ... not.

[@Ray03595]

@@Privykos i mean... nothing changes the fact she's pretty evil 🤷‍♂️. We can add a gender layer if we want but doesn't mean it's always adequate to apply.

[@kendrickhering7725]

@@Privykos So the problem with this argument is that in their defense in 9:05 they are saying that she's bad partially because "her" world expects her to be. When she A. is not from this world but an invader, and B. already irredeemably evil. And as for your argument, all witches/women in power in fantasy are depicted as nothing but power-hungry. It's not a gendered thing. Male pure evil dictators in fantasy have been around forever. Even Avatar:TLAB, one of the most critically acclaimed fantasy stories ever, has a male main villain whose only characterization is being power-hungry and evil.

[@김민석-r9r5u]

I feel like Elsa really is a particular case where the "iciness" of her personality is barely condemned in the movie (only once by Anna, I think), but instead it's wildly criticized and misunderstood by people in the actual real world. The amount of criticizing her character gets, solely because she is calm and demure in comparison to all other loud and extremely active princesses, including her sister, is astounding. You have grown people, almost unequivocally men, truly questioning children who might look up to her, finding it odd that they'd find comfort in a character they deem personality-less or boring and dismissing the qualities she possesses by claiming all she has is a song, as if that was not the point of a musical to begin with.

[@Moonlitwatersofaqua]

I'm assuming you've seen those awful takes about how Elsa is just the song Let it go and nothing else. its like people don't realize that Let it go is at the end of act 1 of the movie and that the story didn't end with let it go. To be fair the Take isn't doing that much better of a job. Let It Go is about Elsa learning to accept herself but the more important lesson Elsa needs to learn is that running away from her problems and isolating herself from people isn't going to fix her problems. Elsa spends the rest of the movie learning this.

[@morganrakes4184]

Right?? Like she grew up being told by others to conceal it and don’t feel it from a young child to a young adult. Of COURSE she’s gonna seem dismissive and soft in personality, sometimes she nudges and ice formed around her so that fear constructed into her through adulthood. She can be outgoing and abrasive when the situation calls for it but again depends solely on what’s going on.

[@femmeviews]

I love how this channel humanizes female tropes we’ve been groomed to hate 🥰

[@jeremiahnoar7504]

You're not groomed to hate them. Your born hating them.

[@namkia205]

@@jeremiahnoar7504 only sexist men lol

[@jeremiahnoar7504]

@@namkia205 so it's sexist to not be fond of toxic female characteristics? Because let's be straight, the Ice Queen architype is toxic. Hence why she defrosts in the end.

[@tannahbananah]

I get sad asf everytime I see Jan from The Office. The writing team destroyed her potential 😭😭😭😭

[@amiraameera8302]

Did you see the essay on Jan? Take tissues with you 😭

[@melissawellington9924]

Right...she was literally my fav character

[@charlespaape2258]

The Snow queen is neither defeated nor actually that evil in her story she just is in the re-telling. The story is far more about the demon mirror and calling out a lot of the ex-machina powers pure maidens have in fairy tales by overtly stating the heroine has them. the queen is just kinda there in the story.

[@Firegen1]

Thank you! I could feel thry crib noted a few of the film adaptations and went with that version. It's not a major deal but they have a perfectly good example from Narnia if they thought about it ...

[@justqueennothighqueen38]

Trying to put the White Witch in the sympathetic villain category doesn't work, not only for the religious connotations, but also because she chose her position, as explained in the book, The Magician's Nephew. She's also not from Narnia, but Charn, which she destroyed simply because her sister wouldn't give up the throne. She's a villain, plain and simple.

[@johnypanta6208]

In the Ice Queen Trope, I see someone strangling to feel or understand empathy. Maybe she was raised that way, maybe society drags her down too many times, maybe this is just the way she is...the result is the same. Thawing the Ice Queen is finally allowing her to feel and accept that she does.

[@_Sakidora_]

No, Lady Macbeth's crime is plotting to murder someone and Miranda Priestley would be a foul bully whatever her sex. Sometimes people are just scumbags and no amount of 'society made me that way' excuses their behaviour. That principle even applies to women sometimes. And Cruella isn't a tragic figure, she never got the full tragedy she deserved which was being torn apart by the dogs she tried to kill (or some fiercer ones if the puppies aren't up to it). I'm extremely suspicious of the number of times this woke pair and their minions try to excuse or minimise the crimes of Cruella. Nobody decent and who genuinely cares about animals would ever do that.

[@nawarb.4226]

Can you do a video on the "Other Girl" trope, the love rival to the female lead, sometimes her love interest's original girlfriend or mistress, often portrayed as some kind of b**ch or s**t, and how the trope promotes competition between women

[@oooh19]

and then people wonder why many women/girls dislike each other.

[@konraddygudaj257]

"She's beautiful, alright. But she has a personality like the inside of a refrigerator." - Bob Davis, You Were Never Lovelier

[@trinaq]

I agree, she's cool as a cucumber, but has a warm heart which she only shows to her most trusted friends. 💖

[@lonyaguileira8729]

I was waiting for this trope SO MUCH. I love you!!!

[@trinaq]

Me too, I adore this Trope, and how a seemingly cold character warms and defrosts over the course of the story! ❄️💙

[@samiam2088]

I’ve noticed that when women get “icy” it’s usually because their vulnerabilities have been used against them at some point.

[@nadianadia4867]

My favourite "Ice Queen" is probably Olivier Armstrong from Fullmetal Alchemist She's highly respected by her subordinates, she's not a villain, nor suppressing her "warmer gentlier side" She's a professional who proudly wears her "Ice Crown" I like how she's not "hurt and formed" by her surroundings (her family is kinda weird but still loving) to become cold Instead she's just purely badass and I love her

[@tiarezavaleta8850]

I was waiting for this comment thanks. My favorite character.

[@shyviolet3852]

The best

[@kirabarnes657]

A woman could commit atrocities and abuses incomprehensible to an average person and y'all would say, "No, no, officer, it's okay, she's just being a girlboss," completely ignoring those she's hurt.

[@rebecatorres999]

Could you guys do a video on "The WASP/Karen conservative mom" and the opposite trope the "rebel" unadapted young-aged mom (like Lorelai from Gilmore Girls or Georgia from Ginny and Georgia)

[@jessicavictoriacarrillo7254]

They have done the Karen and The Bad Mom but would be nice if they done a video on disapproving parents

[@rebecatorres999]

@@jessicavictoriacarrillo7254 bruh i didn't know 😂😂😂, anyways thank you

[@Firegen1]

@@rebecatorres999 They have alsp covered "the rebel" indepth with Ladybird. Mind you hitting the delinquent trope would be a good shout. Then you get to cover James Dean, Mods, Rockers, Punks and a wide range of alternative culture.

[@rebecatorres999]

@@Firegen1 yeah lol i meant not exacly rebel, i used that term to describe the bad mom trope to kinda explain myself better but anyway 😂😂😂

[@oooh19]

they did a video on gilmore girls lorelai

[@rhyswallace3590]

None of us have forgotten the Harry Potter video. And you went out of your way to defend the White Witch and Cruella de vil one of which is a dog killer...

[@Shitennou3]

Oh girls. Could we please stop apologizing for Cruella de Vil? Her villain status does not come from being a boss bitch or rebellious, misunderstood woman, it's because she wants to murder puppies. I am so not looking forward to the live action movie. She's a great and terrifying villain. I don't want her to become an antihero or victim. Otherwise: great trope analysis. Thank you for the entertaining and thoughtful video.

[@tiarezavaleta8850]

Well a lot of humans murder animals to wear their skin. She is not the ultimate villian because of that.

[@eldron29-a54]

Louder ✨

[@_Sakidora_]

Yes, it makes me extremely suspicious when they're so willing to excuse animal abusers.

[@Whatsinaname_]

I love your videos, The Take. I ask could you please do a video on the redhead trope in media. Please include how it's sometimes use as a proxy for black people. Thank you.

[@jessicavictoriacarrillo7254]

@@katherinealvarez9216 When you think about it

[@inescastellano7960]

What do you mean they're use as proxy for black people?

[@Firegen1]

You have mentioned this a few times. Are you sure... I have an inclining I know what you are referring to but proxy would be the wrong term. It's a really loaded term

[@melodyclark1944]

I know what you mean. Both are often treated the an "other" like in Annie (2014) when they take a character that was a redhead and make her black.

[@Whatsinaname_]

@@inescastellano7960 During the 19th century in the United States there was a period of time Irish immigrants among other European ethnicities were called white n words. Throughout media characters like Ginger Foutley from As Told by Ginger, Anne Shirley from Anne of Green Gables, and even Ron Weasley from the Harry Potter series are some examples that can be used.

[@realSimoneCherie]

Pretty sure my wife’s an Ice Queen but I’m her humble servant.

[@ZanneReid27]

Ok, so this might be a little bit random but it occurred to me that you could view Emma Swan from once a upon a time as an ice Queen archetype. Like she's described as prickly and cold and she a lot of times keeps her feelings hidden and locked up and she doesn't like people seeing her as vulnerable at the beginning of show and through the friendship with Snow and Regina and her relationship with her father and Henry and yeah, even her romance with hook she is able to show her more vulnerable less icy side of herself. She's still the same person she was in the beginning of the show but there are people in her life that she feels comfortable enough to be vulnerable around. I guess the same could also be set for Regina even though she's a bit more fiery she also kind of puts on a cold front. There's just a lot of ice queens in that show. lol

[@miranda2421r]

I've always loved to watch Ice Queens, I just naturally gravitate towards them and kind of understand them or want to be like them. By watching this video, I've started to realize how much that is because I myself display a lot of characteristics of the Ice Queen. LOL.

[@emilyglass6625]

I get tired of arguments lionizing Miranda Priestly. She doesn’t acknowledge her workers’ hard work and how it contributes to her success. She has unreasonable expectations. If someone disagrees with her or she doesn’t get her way, she implicitly insults and degrades their value. She shows no loyalty. That’s not principled and strong. Also, as much as I love and appreciate the power and joy of fashion, I have never understood the celebrated “cerulean” speech. The fashion industry has the power to influence trends in such a way as to put cerulean sweaters in stores, but ordinary people apparently deserve contempt for buying and wearing them. Andy lacks passion and preparation for her job and deserves to be critiqued. But her problem isn’t that she consumes the kind of workwear ordinary people can afford, and the value of fashion is not (at least in my opinion) the extent of its control over what people can like or buy. If Miranda thinks fashion is important mainly bc of dominance and contempt, that *should* be a testament against her character, not a celebrated industry maxim.

[@raraavis7782]

Jepp. I'm with you on that one. I enjoyed the heck out of TDWP and especially Meryl Streep's performance, but I wouldn't exactly call her 'character goals'. Tough/ambitious and mean/condescending are not the same thing. And no, you don't actually have to be a ruthless bitch, to be successful in the business world. That's a total myth.

[@bonafide4874]

Yes! You're so right! I always hate how people held her up on a pedestal, just because she is successful/ the top of her field? Then again, I generally hate this whole thing in society we have where if someone is good at something (specifically, if they're intelligent) it doesn't matter how they treat people, we're supposed to root for them/ their bad qualities are excused. I see this a lot with a lot of intelligent middle-aged white male characters, like House, Sherlock Holmes, Rick from Rick and Morty, as well as autistic coded characters, like Sheldon Cooper (or once again, Sherlock Holmes). Just because you're intelligent/ good at something, specifically something specialized (like the fashion industry, detective work, etc.) it doesn't mean you are excused from being a dick to everyone OR that the audience should side with you. Especially for intelligent and/ or autistic coded characters, I wish this would be more nuanced - just because you're intelligent, it doesn't make you better than everyone else (in fact a lot of intelligent people I know realize how much they don't know and are always trying to learn new things and also don't think they're better than others). Likewise, just because a character is autistic, doesn't mean they're going to be super intelligent/ more intelligent than most, or really good at a specific thing but average/ worst at most, or that they're going to be 'difficult', 'brutally honest', 'uncaring of others emotions'. Autistic people in real life aren't like the ones that are autistic coded or are autistic on screen and the same goes for intelligent characters.

[@s0renK]

The cerulean sweater speech is about dressing down the main character because she is unaware of the place of power she has stepped into and how her appearance makes her look foolish among those who pride themselves upon being so in the cut that they are beyond the cut. An out of fashion sweater doesn't cut it among those who defines the cut.