the idol is the worst show of the year 😀

PATREON: / highbrowbymina
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SOURCES
www.rollingstone.com/tv-movie...
www.gq.com/story/the-weeknd-a...
www.rollingstone.com/tv-movie...
www.thedailybeast.com/obsesse...
deadline.com/2023/07/the-idol...
www.independent.co.uk/arts-en...
www.thedailybeast.com/obsesse...
movieweb.com/the-idol-second-...

[@taylorgayhart9497]

I’m sorry but you CANNOT convince me that the intimacy coordinator scene wasn’t a direct response to Sydney Sweeney not wanting to be nude all the time. He *really* thought he was saying something deep, but he is clueless!!

[@anyaaa2801]

Right? Disgusting.

[@CaileyMcMcKenna]

I felt like it was a passive aggressive nod to that too!

[@taylorgayhart9497]

@@CaileyMcMcKennaoh 100%!! It felt like he was trying to say “women taking their clothes off is empowering, and anyone who says otherwise are bad” which isn’t true!! Taking your clothes off *can* be empowering for anyone, but saying “I *don’t* want to take my clothes off” is also okay!

[@lucasraines]

@@taylorgayhart9497 He really thought he did something with that, like no dude. You just look creepy and it’s almost exploitative.

[@dudavasconcelos4736]

And I saw some people painting the intimacy coordinator as a “villain” but the guy was literally just doing his job! He was not some idiot who was trying to control Jocelyn, he was just pointing out that a contract was signed. And if she wanted to show more skin they had to change it before so. If they signed something they new the conditions.

[@bibimbap5917]

The ending where they tried to twist the narrative and paint Jocelyn as this master manipulator who was in control the whole time is so damaging and belittling. They treated her worse than an animal the entire time and tried to pass it off as her being in control and wanting it. It's disgusting and gross. Almost like they are trying to gaslight abuse victims into thinking that they are in control and empowered

[@Samzillah]

IDK why but this makes it sound like the Weeknd watched Midsomar and didn't get it.

[@nailinthefashion]

Not "almost like" that's what was presented and so that is their view point. They watched it before releasing and thought "this is good" Their intent got thrown out the door as soon as they hit post Even if let's say they're completely detached emotionally and only made it to be controversial. It was still shown lmao like there's no reality where they're not really obviously horrific men and should not have these platforms or opportunities. It's why I've never enjoyed the weekday's music outside of the beats. He wears his beliefs on his sleeve

[@bibimbap5917]

​@@nailinthefashionthey said they were making a show to expose the exploitation and hardships of female entertainers but instead ended up making a show that tries to justify exploitation and abuse of aspiring female artists because "it improves their art" or "it means they're in control and they should want it". Absolutely disgusting

[@purrgundy]

Exactly. It's making Tedros a victim of circumstances and making Jocelyn in control the whole time and conscious of the consequences ("look guys, consent! She WANTED him to do all the perverted sex he wanted to do with her without them even talking boundaries because she doesn't need them! (The intimacy guy scene: it's empowering to not have boundaries now!") ) while being the one having trouble gripping reality from hallucinations (the MV scene) is inconsistent writing and terrible characterisation. What are we supposed to get from this show?

[@nailinthefashion]

@@bibimbap5917 the fact that they offended their target demo this much breaks my heart too. I feel like I'm grieving a friend who did a crime or sumn since the pilot and premise HAD me. The last part of your comment really ripped me up

[@gooveyisinthehearty4058]

I can’t imagine how devastated the original director must’ve been when she saw what the show turned into :(

[@glory5110]

My thoughts exactly. ):

[@reesesinyobowl]

I feel like Sam doesnt even thinks with his brain. He thinks with his d1ck at this point. He prolly saw amys version and is like "Nah not hard"-🤓

[@ginao6810]

It went from a show about misogyny in the music industry, to a show of misogyny and the music industry.

[@StellaStars631]

The false assault claims, Jocelyn allegedly lying about experiencing abuse, acting as if intimacy coordinators are a nuisance, saying rapey men are appealing and more is just exhausting and gross. It makes me feel grossed out by Sam and the Weekend.

[@acceptance7968]

That's just it. None of these things have given me a drop of interest in the weekends acting or levinsons direction and make me literally not want to consume any media they produce

[@lesbiangoddess290]

this has a man written all over it. literally

[@huntshunts]

Don’t forget “mental illness is SEXYY” 🙄

[@Ailacatailu]

As someone who’s been raped numerous times by strangers and a family member alike and been told by men that I probably enjoyed it, I fucking despise Sam Levenson and The Weeknd for perpetuating the same rape culture that gave me and so many other women and girls this horrible trama

[@Ailacatailu]

@@huntshuntsit’s so sexy when I’m puking twice a day and unable to hold a job or go to school from my trauma. Shit is so hot 🫠

[@Chuuzus]

This show is just an excuse for Sam Levinson to create his own fetishes and I can't believe HBO let him.

[@sophspice-zl7mn]

this!

[@hiddenpowers123]

Tbf they hired him for that reason 🤮

[@stonecake313]

Let’s not forget the Weeknd helped write it. These are also his fetishes, which isn’t shocking when u listen to the lyrics he puts out

[@rreennaad]

@@stonecake313exactly 🤢

[@adeleaslan8182]

after game of thrones idk why anyone is surprised

[@cheekblush]

some pictures were leaked when amy was still the director and it's safe to say it would've been a completely different show. jocelyn's bed room was pink and girly, life sized standees showed her in cute and colorful outfits very reminiscent of britney's baby one more time era. it's sad we'll never get to see what the show was actually supposed to be and instead got sam levinson's wet dreams come to life

[@schloodie1942]

I thought those were from flashback scenes to her teen pop star days??

[@shilalove3631]

Eww, not that Disney Hannah Montana looking stuff. Does not even look like Amy style of work at all

[@IneptRat]

this show is proof we need writers, honestly writers guild should use this as an argument lmao

[@henazz2561]

Oh I saw an image of a lady at a protest carrying a sign that said something like that ahhahah

[@emmaphilo4049]

I agree but investors don't care, they just want to make money, not creativity or intelligence.

[@felmargego2534]

funny bc somebody carried a sign saying just that 😂😂

[@Rosinemmon]

They said it was supposed to be a critique on the exploitation of women in the entertainment industry but it's filled with the male gaze that it ends up being atrocious and going against what they intended to portray. And the ending of lily's character being the bad guy just shows how the plot had no clear direction at all

[@nailinthefashion]

Imo the direction is clear but it's a privileged straight male perspective so everything was glamorized, excused, justified etc. To me it's very apparent this was fap worthy for them and that's enough-- it's not about Lily's story or vindication and that was a choice not just where the cards fell. They see exploration as empowerment, Lara Croft if she had no agency.

[@danitori3452]

This whole show is a statement on how women are treated in the industry. But it's not in the show. It's just the show itself.

[@arandootsarandano]

Literally, they wanted to criticize the oversexualization of women in the industry while sexualizing a woman in the industry

[@lane2699]

Unfortunately when Amy the first director left and they added Sam Levinson and The Weeknd they swapped from having a story about female exploitation to being more about The Weeknd's character. He like literally said he wanted it to be more about him and it was too focused on Lily's character. I don't understand why the fuck they changed everything I was excited for this show. It literally became the thing it was satirizing

[@user-tx5gq7xw5d]

It was just.so.bad.

[@KennethTakanami]

Insane how the behind-the-scenes drama is more interesting than the show itself.

[@raicrush]

Just like Don’t Worry Darling

[@fangirlonfire]

fr also that rolling stone article does a far better job at showing the evils of the Hollywood industry and the men who are in it than the actual fucking show itself, it’s just…hilarious.

[@ramunebradfordtake2710]

you should read about the film The Canyons oooo man the whole backstory about how the film was made was way more interesting.

[@slayning6033]

omg whats the behind the scene's drama?? the only thing i've heared is lily saying that she felt uncomfortable around the weeknd when the camera was off due to tis character. Is there something else?

[@laraalvarezzz2]

​@@slayning6033oh boy.... you have no idea

[@ldallas8315]

Considering that Amy Seimetz’s version of The Idol was roughly 80% done before HBO shitcanned it, I think they should just give her the money to finish the damn thing. It’s the only good result that could possibly come out of this abhorrent mess.

[@RandomSwiftie13]

For real! I really want to see her version of the show so badly. It's not everyday we get a show about Pop stars and The music industry.

[@EbonyPenmarks]

There are photos of the set of Amy’s version which include Lily Rose posing with Jocelyn merch that actually looks like real pop girly merch. Amy put THAT much more effort on the production. SMH

[@googoogaga7986]

Exactly, they owe us that at least, we should do petitions and stuff for it I think

[@Wolvesarechasingme]

I did the math. 80% of 6 (it should have been 6; I don't believe that lying liar; there was a named episode for 6 on the website) is 4.8 episodes. BRING IT ON OUT there HBO (sorry Max.. max.)!

[@zuzanna6581]

This show is a mockery of sexual violence victims, sexism within industry, and generally the most disgusting thing I've seen so far. It has really lost my hope for modern cinema. And the fact they scrapped the initial female director due to "too much of a female perspective" is so far the biggest step backwards for women in media this generation would've seen in contemporary pop culture. It has turned abuse and female suffering into the male gaze and fetishism. It also revealed to me the true nature and intention of Euphoria which I looked up to as a child, I now realise it's a disgusting portrayal of glamourised pedophilia. Whoever enjoyed watching high schoolers (For example, the character played by Sydney Sweeney) sexually performing even if it is acting, also happens to be excited by those ideas which it intends to portray.

[@Justanothermusicnerdxo]

Euphoria as a child?!? Isn’t the show like a year old. Children shouldn’t watch it to begin with.

[@zuzanna6581]

@@Justanothermusicnerdxo Most of those who admired and looked up to Euphoria are Gen Z audiences which at the time of Euphoria's release had included those who were 12-16

[@zuzanna6581]

@@Justanothermusicnerdxo It's also a very attractive show to kids (specifically 12-18), the glitter the colours, the iconography, the actors such as Zendaya and from the Kissing Booth, the fact it's also based off of high schoolers (which is going to attract those who look up to high schoolers, are going into high school, or are in high school). Nowadays, kids have easy access to media like this, especially when clips and ideas of it are spread across multi-platforms and media. Also the show is literally showing children participating in violently sexual activity if that isn't reason enough for it to be harmful.

[@marinazolotic4347]

​@@zuzanna6581If you were my kid, they'd be no way I'd allow you to watch EUPHORIA. It's inappropriate for a minor audience not to mention that it grooms kids into thinking that participating in the activities the protagonists are participating in is some how "normal".

[@zuzanna6581]

@@marinazolotic4347 Obviously, but you'd be stupid to think you're 12-16 year old won't find it on the internet

[@bloodysuperstar8]

bro when they revealed chloe being underage RIGHT AFTER they had her fully unclothed made me genuinely sick

[@th3louvr34]

Thank youuuu that was so gross, she was so sexualized

[@leigha3873]

me and my friend were watching it together and i remember the first time she was introduced, and we were both thinking that she seemed kind of childish for some reason, and then her age is revealed and the question about why she’s so childish gets answered. but it opens up so many more questions about tedros; like it seemed like he was used to seeing her naked and no one questioned that?

[@huntshunts]

@@leigha3873yes! Both Tedros and the other guy played by Moses Sumney didn’t care at all. Everyone else from the cult doesn’t mind that she’s bottomless in the last episode. It’s just sooo creepy and implies a lot about the sex cult

[@TheMostDivine]

yuh it’s gross but not any worse than any of the n*dity in euphoria considering they’re all more or less 17.

[@samanthazhu1234]

looks like Sam Levinson really couldn't handle not having naked minors in his shows so he just had to make her underage for no apparent reason

[@taylorgayhart9497]

“Hurt people hurt people” is *such* a tired trope Sammy!! Like if you want Joselyn to be the bad guy all along, you need to *earn* it through plot developments.

[@nailinthefashion]

It's like yes... and??? What about the rest, the growth. The evolution??? How are people this flat creatively, where's the grit, the texture

[@jessicapogson2645]

plus many characters spoke to having witnessed her childhood abuse (troyes for example) it genuinely doesn’t make sense

[@seekittycat]

Tedros/music industry: to create good music you need to suffer, your mom beat the good music out of you and I'm going to do the same. Joselyn: k That's it, that's the show.

[@purrgundy]

​@seekittycat Jocelyn: sike jk guess I never needed to be abused for the sake of art and I still went through it just coz 🤷‍♀️🤷‍♀️🤷‍♀️ oh whatever I don't need motivation for my actions, just blame it on my mental health issues cause there's no way to tell if they're real or not (guess mental health stigma means nothing to the writers, and neither did any trauma victims or torture victims 🤡👌but boo bad women who manipulate and frame poor wittle men for fun)

[@bibimbap5917]

@@purrgundy they really tried to say abusers don't abuse, victims manipulate them into doing horrible things. The audacity. Makes me wanna puke my guts out just thinking about it

[@antoarzamendia]

No, people are not saying 'gross, that's actually what The Weeknd is like' because he's so 'private and mysterious'. We're saying that because he's a producer of the show and he literally fired the former female director because he said her version of the story was ''too feminist''. So he literally went on his way to write that disgusting character and make him a kinda love interest even tho that wasn't the original idea. And people want to say that's not reflective of his personal views? that's like saying it's just a coincidence that Sam Levinson usually writes horrible scenes about young women being explicitly (sexually) abused.

[@antoarzamendia]

These people are literally TELLING THE WORLD what are their views of the disgusting things of this show. Both The Weeknd and Lilly RD, when she said how 'empowering' her character and the show in general were, and also tried to say people are only complaining because the show it's 'provocative'. It's really dangerous that some people try to act like they're just Sam's little puppets that didn't have anything to do with the show and that they don't agree with the final result.

[@katieowlpower]

@@antoarzamendia especially The Weeknd. Actors have to play nice about their projects, for the sake of their careers, though it doesn't fully excuse going above and beyond for something. For instance, I wouldn't feel Lily-Rose Depp saying nice things about the shows she's in is shocking. But saying it's empowering is more than that, and more something I'm not wild about. But at the same time, we also don't know how much power she had behind the scenes. Actors do have more pull than your average crew-member, as they have a relationship to the public in a way the latter do not. But there is confirmation of the impact that the Weeknd had, that he had the desire and power and success in ousting Amy and his reasons why. And he's a guy, not to mention one with star pull. Not for nothing, but the pressures the show at least tried to look at in the music industry for women to act a certain way, carry over into the film/tv world.

[@RED-my9hl]

not to mention how abel mentally and emotionally abused bella...

[@KayMarieClair]

Could not agree more. Our own art reflects our inner world.

[@uhohspaghettios2391]

The whole "plot twist" about Jocelyn being the true villain all along, and her manipulating everything, really just made me think, "Oh, this is how abusive men view the women they get involved with." If any of the writers beyond episode one had had two brain cells to rub together, they might have been able to do some kind of contrast between the reality of their relationship and Tedros's cognitively dissonant POV. It might've been a very unique take, too, showing how what Tedros perceives as some 4D chess-type moves on Jocelyn's part are actually just the unfortunately common back and forth of an abusive relationship. What a waste of Lily-Rose Depp's potential.

[@alaskinhax]

I think the biggest criticism directed against The Weeknd is because he actually participated in the writing process so he did put a finger in every single gross thing we saw on screen, things that could be MUCH better handled but felt like a fetichized view when it didn't need to be

[@Persephone_Personified]

He put his fingers in too many things.

[@bibimbap5917]

He also fired the female director and writer because he thought the show was leaning too much into female perspective. Says everything about him tbh

[@alaskinhax]

@@bibimbap5917it literally had to be filmed in his house because they scraped a series that was 80% finished and had very little budget to star over EVERYTHING but they still preferred to do it because "female perspective". says a whole fucking lot.

[@Shooky_pink]

exactly

[@nailinthefashion]

​@@bibimbap5917which really worked out for the submarine ceo lol I cannot believe the arrogance of cis het men these days

[@sandrae2398]

The fact that The Weeknd got the female directior fired when her version of the show looked SOOO much better and wasn't just a gross make gaze parade makes me look at him in a much different light

[@mari98_]

yeah like if I didn’t know information outside of this about the show plus the repeated apathetic response to the insider report of toxic set culture and firing the female director that he has a hand in and producer, I would feel more sympathetic to how the show is affecting his career as Mina presented, but I don’t. If he was just and actor in this I’d feel bad but he was a co-creator and executive producer…

[@yanavav]

Maybe this was a sign to expose the Weeknd to the world in regards to how demented he is.

[@tamadgotchi]

yeah apparently (according to d’angelo wallace’s analysis of this show) they got rid of the female director because “it was focused too much on the female perspective”. it’s really made for the male gaze and as a weeknd fan, i honestly cant look at him the same anymore

[@blinkeuisaswiftie8397]

@@yanavav agreed, makes me see him in a different light now.

[@tripalongbrasil]

I mean. Have you ever payed attention to his lyrics? This is nothing new sadly 😬

[@constanzanavarro821]

It’s funny how The Weeknd was talking about how different he wanted to be from the character but still chose to use his music and let them film in his house. Like sweetie, we see you👀

[@charlizebianchi5364]

not to be that person but the only reason why they filmed in his house is because as you may know, they lacked funds.

[@A.Love326]

Being brutally honest: I don't think The Weeknd or Sam understands how satire works. The beginning scene isn't satire, there is no way it can even be validated as such. When we look at Levinson's history of exploiting actresses and combine that with the #MeToo movement within Hollywood, the scene becomes a place for Levinson to make insensitive commentary on the importance of intimacy coordinators on a film set. He makes the other characters join in on this weird group shaming. He writes the female executive to say a ridiculous line about nudity to validate the real dangers on set. It's disgusting. Intimacy coordinators aren't there to ruin the vibe - there are there to protect actors participating in these intimate scenes because people HAVE been uncomfortable, people HAVE been pressured, and Levinson hates that there is protection against that now.

[@fernandarubio5343]

Exactly! This show screams I’M A PREDATOR AND YOU’RE ALL VALIDATING ME

[@katiechamberlin4194]

Completely agree with you! Also, I invite you to use "insensitive " instead of "tone deaf" since being Deaf or tone deaf is not a bad thing nor a choice

[@draculalalaa]

I bet if they kept the original female director this show would be very interesting.

[@selty]

Look up some of the leaked pics. The aesthetic was millennium pink, excessive mercy with glitter. Very Britney Spears it looked amazing

[@seonsunnysunshine]

@@seltylink??

[@Lainytainy]

@@seltywould love the link

[@nieaktywneblablabla]

link??

[@rahbeeuh]

I was just talkin' bout that earlier. You can often tell when a project is helmed by a woman.

[@TinyGhosty]

Making the victim the "master manipulator" sounds a whole lot like victim blaming to me. Real life victims are subject to this narrative already and putting it in a show sure isn't going to make that better for people that already want to invalidate victims.

[@seekittycat]

The whole thing reads like some Narc trying to twist the narrative. "She STOLE all my talent and USED me!! She WANTED me to hit her!" So sickening

[@TinyGhosty]

@@seekittycat Yup! Especially since the actual ab*ser is "accepted" at the end regardless of being outed for being a horrible person. Not only has the narrative changed to make him a "victim" of the actual victim's manipulation but his crimes are literally swept under the rug when she brings him on stage. This is an ab*ser fantasy.

[@saramakai1151]

i mean.... am i the only one seeing a slight resemblance with the depp-heard lawsuit? 🤷‍♀️

[@d4xn4v]

@@saramakai1151yeah how everyone went after amber heard just for her reactive reaction to abuse:(

[@d4xn4v]

@@saramakai1151yeah how everyone went after amber heard just for her reactive reaction to abuse:(

[@rinowx5]

This show romanticizes toxic relationships. It’s disgusting.

[@15Candles]

Even Twilight which had a problematic relationship wasn't all that toxic compare to this lol

[@milenaangelina5186]

No, it's the opposite😂

[@essies4294]

It doesn’t though😂

[@NShomebase]

@@essies4294 How?

[@diana5981]

Bro toxic relationships have been romanticised way longer before this show

[@whatever9598]

i saw a tweet that said: "amy seimetz’s version of the idol was going to include scenes that referenced jocelyn’s past as a child star. one of the biggest flaws in sam levinson’s version was that jocelyn being a pop star never felt real or authentic so it would’ve been nice to see that fleshed out."

[@dhan07404]

I hate when dark and raw-esque projects like this and blonde are labelled as "satires" or "critiques" of the Industry cos unless you handle it with a lot of care and thought, it just ends up being exactly what it's critiquing with no substance or anything to say It becomes just as exploitative

[@LingeringShiver]

Classic "satire requires a clarity of purpose and target lest it be mistaken for and contribute to that which it intends to criticize" moment

[@lh8263]

It was meant to be that prior to Sam and Abel. They literally said they thought the show originally pitched about systemitised exploitation and harm of women in entertainment being bad had TOO MUCH FEMALE PERSPECTIVE and rewrote the script to focus more on Abel's character and instead be about.... idk. Sam writing porn for himself and taking pot shots at people who've opposed him in the past.

[@blankacct6421]

So glad you mentioned Blonde. 😭 So, so exploitative in similar ways.

[@WholeHeartily]

Bingo

[@dhan07404]

@@blankacct6421 One of my favourite films ever was assassination of Jesse James (also by Andrew Dominik) I adore that film so I was excited to see blonde but the more I watched the more repulsed I became

[@salvatore2004]

And we all thought Riverdale was the bottom of the barrel 💀

[@quinnobi_]

right

[@brandonjohnson633]

At least Riverdale has a plot! It's not a good plot and it changes every season but it's a still a plot

[@icedoatmilklatte910]

@@brandonjohnson633 I’m done 💀💀💀

[@nairobi8337]

San Levinson is the bottom of society

[@dudavasconcelos4736]

Riverdale is a fever dream. The Idol is a nightmare.

[@ellaa_games]

the problem with sam levinson is that s1 of euphoria grossly inflated his ego - despite also, lets all finally admit, not being consistent or well written, euphoria filled the empty space of raunchy, despicable teen dramas that 90210, one tree hill, gossip girl, and the OC left behind. now he thinks everything he does is ground breaking and "taboo", and I can honestly imagine the reaction to the idol is only going to reinforce this arrogance, he isn't going to care about the ACTUAL valid criticism of his writing and direction, but instead focus on how incredibly "shocking" everyone finds it. when really, at its core, the idol or euphoria are no more shocking that many shows I grew up with that also displayed sex, abuse, r*pe, addiction etc. the one smart thing he has done is he knows exactly who his audience is and markets his shows as such, the tik-tok, instagram aesthetics are undeniable and they obviously work. as for the writing - I've come up with more interesting and complex plot lines in my sims play throughs

[@alextserkezis4512]

Could not have said it better myself. Also, I laughed so hard at your last line (because it is no doubt true)

[@oreochocolate_lavacake9960]

Wow this is actually the most perfect explanation I've heard which makes a lot of sense also it made me realise some people really are obsessed with aesthetic and beauty especially on tik tok with people simping for Ted Bundy and some other weird shit

[@vanessaryckman3604]

This!!!

[@UniversalChallenge4454]

the man is a rich world class buffoon with a name that carries so much weight it may yet crush him

[@walnutsrcool]

The intimacy coordinator thing might have been funny with a different director. But with Sam Levinson it didn’t feel like satire. It felt like a “look how stupid intimacy coordinators are” the coordinator did not say she couldn’t get naked, but that it required 48 ho it s to re draw up her contract and also give her time to further think it through. Someone can talk you into something then you can regret it a couple hours later.

[@Khenfu_Cake]

Yeah, intimacy coordinators job is to make sure all parties are on the same page, so no one gets exploited. It's not their job to be a prude. If the actor is all for showing skin, the IC probably won't prevent them from doing that. Provided the contracts are in order. Just wait those 48 hours and get the paperwork in order, if Jocelyn is still for the idea. That entire "conflict" just seemed so weirdly forced and uncomfortable in its message.

[@mccperin]

exactly! besides, even though jocelyn was quite comfortable with getting naked, who's to say the photography crew was?

[@oreochocolate_lavacake9960]

​@@mccperinbro exactly usually crews are informed earlier when there is nudity and stuff like that

[@luna9056]

the cast of the show actually thinks they ate and did something revolutionary sends me. Lily saying how empowering the show and her character are and that Sam was the best director she ever worked, tells me everything i need to know about her. HBO should pay their writers instead of giving millions to Sam for every dumb idea that he has.

[@mhawang8204]

She's basically her character -- being exploited and manipulated and thinks she is in control. This is so meta, but I don't think Sam has it in him to play the 4D chess like this.

[@luna9056]

@@mhawang8204 no, he is way too dumb for that

[@bean2046]

she's only 24 though. In my book that's still a baby (the line rises as you age, I'm just old) and regardless of that, her brain is most likely not entirely finished. At that age you also often don't really grasp the nuances in empowerment, abuse and shitty people, let alone all three at once. We should cut her some slack and let her grow before a definite judgement, you know?

[@mysticc6232]

​@bean2046 naa I am 25 and by 24 you should already know better and have common sense, she must just have a messed up word view because of her lifestyle and habits.

[@bean2046]

@@mysticc6232 yeah, you know what can change a messed up world view? Age. Also I didn't want to say she's right or untouchable, just to wait for definite judgement of character or point her out too much, when there are older people involved. I know "You'll understand when you older" is an annoying saying and not helpful at all, but some views just can't be explained. I sure have some messed up views, too and I am at an age where the reason for that turns more and more into ignorance rather than influence. Such is life, you grow and then you die

[@adeleaslan8182]

After seeing the backstage pictures of Amy's version of the idol I literally want to cry. It was fun and girly and the perfect way to set up the way the industry glamorizes actors and musicians to interest people, when it actually destroys the people actually working in it and traumatizes them, turning them into shells as adults, while still having a cool set. But... here we are

[@marymurphy1877]

every bit I learn about the OG version of this I cry a little about what we got ): could have been amazing

[@ramunebradfordtake2710]

This reminds me of bad early 2000 movies with the dumb ass writers thought process is " see... the femme fatale was always in power. you just didn't know it." But not in an interesting and thought provoking way. It's like I can see the coke binge the weekend and Sam had together while writing this drivel. Thinking it's so smart. Jesus 🙄😮‍💨 I only watched one eps. That was enough for me.

[@V4ness4_5]

Wait where r y'all finding pictures of the original version?

[@69DayzAwayFromWinning]

Where do I see/read about the original version?

[@googoogaga7986]

We need to demand this from hbo

[@blairg8171]

I feel like this invalidates girls who go through serious real life abuse. They’re trying to narrate “she knew what she was doing the whole time” “she wanted it” I hate that. Leaves my gut sinking.

[@jazwhoaskedforthis]

I feel like eventually we are going to find out terrible things about the people involved in this or things that happened on set.

[@katya_velour785]

Yes

[@oreochocolate_lavacake9960]

Yeah I know it's gonna really bad

[@taylorgayhart9497]

I feel like the first episode shows you what the show could’ve been; it could’ve been a witty, parody on the state of Hollywood, but instead, it is just a convoluted mess of the male gaze.

[@cami-oe8rv]

DID U SEE THE LEAKED PHOTOS OF THE AMY VERSION?! We could’ve had a story about the struggles of women in the music industry but instead we got whatever the idol was. Like omg 😭

[@nailinthefashion]

@@cami-oe8rv it really reminds me of Miranda Sings lol. "It's supposed to be a subverted take on a self important singer who doesn't know any better" but then she just like, shows you her feet for minutes at a time and tells you your uncle isn't creepy just a loser. Like????? Wake the frick frack UP. All the way

[@taylorgayhart9497]

@@cami-oe8rv saw!! I’m so bummed, apparently a lot of what they cut was Joselyn’s life and her and The Weekend’s relationship developing, which would have helped the show make more sense, so I don’t understand why it was cut, but I’m not the director! Lol

[@dogger37JC]

So much potential. It’s really too bad this wasn’t better written and casted better. I will never be able to look at The Weekend again without laughing.

[@sleepyyedits]

am i the only one who is now terrified of the Weeknd 😔🖐️ (chill, i know its acting but i just can't shake off the bad vibes yk)

[@lovelycherry344]

he replaced my sleep paralysis demon

[@geeloxoxo2574]

Yess

[@absolutelynotellen]

Lowkey prefer him to stick to music more 🤷‍♀️

[@abicadab1]

samee 😟 i feel a bit reluctant to listen to his music now… like i was aware with his sussy lyrics, but now it just confirms my suspicions about him lmaoo

[@anyaaa2801]

Yeah. Like...I don't feel good listening to him now. Such a shame because he has a really beautiful voice but unfortunately his mind is hella f*cked up.

[@colemarie193]

Someone leaked photos from Amy's version of the show, which crushed me. It was very Y2K & colorful. It framed Jocelyn's character more like Miley Cyrus or early Britney Spears. There were more women actors & even children involved. And it pissed me further with Sam & Abel because they ruined something that had so much potential to be interesting. Instead, we just got torture p*rn.

[@P.eac.h]

The intimacy coordinator scene made my blood BOIL. I hated how they acted like her locking him away was empowering. I feel like it was written by someone who completely misunderstands why they exist and why those rules about what is and isn't going to take place are a thing. They aren't telling someone what they can and cannot do with their body, they are doing their job protecting someone from having their body exploited. It is incredibly common for people to give in during filming/photography shoots to what they want to not seem "difficult" or because they are told it will help their career. While intimacy coordinators are also there to make the scene (in the case of shows) look good they are also there to make sure that no one is doing something they genuinely don't want to do. All the coordinator knows is that Jocelyn (not going to look up how it is spelled) or her team agreed prior to the shoot what she would be doing. For all he knows, someone pressured her. In my eyes, it is roughly the equivalent of someone getting mad that her best friend isn't letting them leave the bar with a guy she met. They are there to protect you in a mental state and place where it is easy to exploit you and countless women have in the past. I personally find Sam Levinson a gross person so I genuinely think he is the kind of guy who wishes that their important work didn't exist so he could get away with more.

[@haleyferru9098]

The part about the Idol sending a gross message about false sexual assault allegations is a large reason why I can’t stand Californication. Do we really need a show that says, “No you guys, really! The underage teenage girl came on to me! She’s to blame!”?

[@aafeenshaikh4768]

fr, the normalization of rape culture is insane.

[@erinnadia0409]

Yes in 2023 let's not have false sexual assault allegations! It's bad enough woman don't get believed usually and this type of media is very damaging

[@ina7133]

funny thing ol’ sammy boy did that in Euphoria too

[@espeon871]

Literally!!! Also with the rest of the show- icky also knowing the history of sam its so disgusting to keep making fun of sexual coordinators, act like its common place that accusations r falsified, and also constant sexualisation esp of chloe disgusting

[@espeon871]

@@ina7133sammy boy's not seeing heaven ever

[@JNDReacts]

One of the worst things about this ending is the fact that they’ve drawn so many parallels between Jocelyn and Britney Spears, and even directly referenced her in episode 1. The implications of that are just vile.

[@shadow8277]

Also Selena Gomez, who dated the Weeknd. Gross.

[@bibimbap5917]

​@@shadow8277what parallels did they draw about Selena or where did they mention her? She does not have the image or narrative that Britney spears or Miley Cyrus has and Jocelyn tries to portray. Neither is she mentioned in the show like the other two women . But sure because she's the Weekend's ex and makes music the show is suddenly about her.

[@lissa6938]

​@@bibimbap5917the comparisons with Selena are from the first episode, Jocelyn is presented as a pop star who had to cancel her tour abruptly due to a mental breakdown and was signed to a mental hospital, and now she's making her comeback and in that comeback she's on a sexy photoshoot were she's wearing her hospital band because according to her manager "mental illness is sexy", Selena Gomez on the other hand back in 2016 had to cancel her survival tour due to a mental breakdown, and was rushed into a mental hospital, she spent almost a year away from the public and when she made her comeback with the song fetish she made a very "sexy" photoshoot in which she was also wearing her mental hospital wristband, so people definitely made the comparisons, there's the fact that selena was also a child star and because Abel said that Jocelyn was created based on a lot of his own experiences on the industry so people thought that, since he was her boyfriend he saw a lot of her behind the scenes and used that as inspiration 🤷‍♀️ but I still think britney spears was the biggest inspiration for Jocelyn character tho! Just pointing out where people could see the similarities with Selena in Jocelyn

[@dazesanddoodles]

from some bts pictures i saw of stuff before the reshoot/rewrite, it looked a lot more like a show about a late 90s-early 00s teen pop star and they were actually drawing inspo from stars of that time (like britney) it’s as though they kept all the references but didn’t adjust the rewritten script to make the new comparison make sense

[@dilflover69_]

this is what i was thinking. the whole show just felt like a 'fuck you' to popstars like Britney in general. it was nasty.

[@helguinhanobeco]

i absolutely am not judging her for who her father is but it feels a bit odd having lily rose depp as the main character in a show where the final message is "the woman was actually the abusive and manipulative one!!! 😱😱"

[@ericaboyd4939]

seriously rubbed me the wrong way too 😅😅😅

[@oreochocolate_lavacake9960]

Exactly and also if they actually wanted to make a show about a woman being abusive they should actually give the character abusive traits rather than manipulating the audience to think the male is a victim (aka the actual abuser in this show)

[@littleNica98]

In another review I heard that Lily's character has a scene where she m*sturbates with a glass bottle... I was like.. ok.. after what Depp supposedly to Heard with a glass bottle?

[@adk7439]

a lot of actors, especially women, have spoken up about how intimacy coordinators make sets much safer for them so i found it gross and not funny that the show was poking fun at the whole thing, and i also have never heard of intimacy coordinators being on set so someone sticks to their contract. that's a manager's role, not theirs, so it also seemed like a misinterpretation of their actual job. intimacy coordinators meet with the performer and ask them what their boundaries are and then makes sure that the set environment abides by that

[@becuaseimbored3481]

"I have to separate myself from the character" you mean like how an actor would when performing a character?

[@manderly33]

Yeah, his interviews scream “I don’t know the first thing about acting.”

[@butterflybliss1439]

We could have had an entire show of girls being their girliest girly possible but then they had to ruin it. We can never get anything good.

[@smilefenn4813]

We’re getting barbie tho so at least there’s that 😊

[@butterflybliss1439]

@@smilefenn4813 OUR QUEEN WILL REIGN SOON AND WE WILL BE SEATED LETS GO GIRLS also have been re-watching all the old barbie animation movies I almost forgot how good they were 😭😭😭

[@Montesama314]

Reminds me that I want to see the Barbie movie. So flashy and girly and pink, and a full blown feature film rather than one of those direct to tv kids films... As a guy, I gotta know how this could all work.

[@espeon871]

@@Montesama314OMG i didnt expect u to be in mina's comment sorry if i sound creepy i usually see u in other ytubers so sorry just was excited

[@espeon871]

Fr, only for it to turn into a misogynistic trauma p*rn thing god

[@noebarberis3098]

I didn´t watch The Idol (fortunately) but when you talked about the r*pe framing part I instantly thought of Maddy in Euphoria. Wtf is Sam Levinson trying to say? Not one but two women who are falsely accusing men of r*pe? It´s scary cause this type of shows have proven to influence narratives in the real world, and this message is really dangerous. This man hates women, he portrays them as s*x objects who like being tortured, manipulated and abused and then calls them empowered. It is disgusting that HBO approved this show. Does it even have a trigger warning for r*pe survivors? Like do they even know how hard it is to watch that on TV. It is already hard to be taken seriously as it is, but how horrible must it be to watch it (again not one but two characters) being portrayed as if this type of allegations were only made because women have something to gain. It makes speaking up ten times more difficult. F*ck this show, f*ck Sam Levinson, f*ck HBO.

[@hueyfreeman8865]

Every episode had a disclaimer at the beginning….

[@Jordan-db2og]

​@@hueyfreeman8865wtf does that have to do with anything?

[@UniversalChallenge4454]

i do not know beyond he is proudly saying he is a twit

[@ArielTheMermaid151]

I’m so sad we didn’t get the original version of this show… the pictures of Jocelyn’s room just showed how much more depth there was to this character.

[@taylorgayhart9497]

There are a ton of plot holes too!! At the end, it’s revealed that the hairbrush she claimed her mother hit her with was brand new, but yet everybody on her team witnessed her mother being abusive towards her. So the point is she was abused, but used her abuse to manipulate others?

[@shadow8277]

Yeah and the weeknd only noticed the brush when it was lying on her desk. Not all the times he hit her with it? Also the brush is pristine if she was hit with it it would atleast be a little bent/broken

[@heatherhaven1268]

Yes! Exactly

[@tlowery2074]

i assumed she had multiple brushes to keep up the visibility of the symbolism the brush holds as like a manipulative ploy/continuing emblem of her lore, etc.

[@miaSoa-ji2rn]

Sammy love this kind of scenarii: false r*pe allegations, the misogynist r*pey male being the "final victim".

[@seekittycat]

I was under the impression she threw away her "mom" hairbrush and got a new one for Tedros. Like she's over her mom's death now that he's going to abuse her into making music and she never needs to learn how to live without abuse.

[@CoilyTwizzler]

You’re right, Tedros is already poorly written so I could only see an immensely charismatic actor pulling him off. Like the actor would have to ooze natural charisma and magnetism to make it work and well..that’s not what we got so as viewers, every interaction with him just feels cringey at best lol

[@RVforestgreen]

I feel like they were trying to go for James Franco's character in Spring Breakers a bit, but didn't pull it off.

[@kayjayhay]

This is one of the reasons I wish the show had been better. It's a common misconception that a character like Tedros needs to be charismatic, when usually the consensus about cult leaders by those not in the cult is "I don't get why anyone followed them." Most cult leaders are only charismatic to their vulnerable targets, aided by word of mouth from the far more charismatic and talented victims who vouch for them. They are good at manipulation because that's something you can practice, but most of them are losers in hindsight and often at first glance to even their most devoted followers. Tedros could have been a solid commentary on how cult leaders are so often grifters with a pathetic origin story who create their own mythology, not unlike how a star like Jocelyn has to create a persona. The poor writing, pacing, and behind the scenes sabotage of the satirical predecessor are more to blame than the character Tedros himself, or even Abel's somewhat static acting. And because they played Jocelyn too close to the vest for the sake of the twist, we don't really believe he fills a void for her that no one else can. We don't know her well enough to see why a mirage like Tedros speaks to her creative thirst, so to speak. It was a missed opportunity to confront that cliché, among a series of missed opportunities.

[@Melanie-jy2nw]

I’ve got to ask… why would Jocelyn approve the expose about tedros if she was always planning to present him as the love of her life to the entire world? She’s literally just exposed him as a cult leader! This would ruin her career! It goes completely against her motivation of saving her career!

[@AvatarTTfan]

they even forgot about how their MAIN character is feeling, she said in episode 1 she thought pop music was superficial and she hated world class sinner because it's not her, only for her to end up with three even more hornier songs and her show just strip teasing, so world class sinner wasn't her because it needed to be hornier?? wha- 💀

[@ErikaCartet]

right???? like ep1 she’s complaining about how this super horny song is superficial and bad and not really her, and how she wishes she was free to make the music she wanted to, and then ep2 she’s coming to her team with the remix of the song as though she’s finally sharing her own artistic vision but it’s just. the song with distortion and sex sounds. like her team is already letting her have horny songs, but the show frames “making more authentic music” not as actually coming from a place of personal experience and passion for what you’re creating and communicating in your music, but instead “sexy music must be made while having sex to be authentic” huh??????? we do see tedros saying jocelyn should use her personal experience with her mother to make art but like where do we see joce before that actually have something to express or art she wants to make but isn’t allowed to release aside from her sex noise remix? we don’t see anything of her own artistic vision that isn’t just what her team is already on board with her putting out - sexy mental illness

[@tess8691]

watching mina tear apart awful pop culture is what i live for

[@trinaq]

The only character who acted like a human being was Leia, but even she sat idly by and let her supposed best friend Jocelyn get harassed.

[@sarah2slayy]

And she was treated like absolute crap too

[@daalimbe]

​@@sarah2slayyher getting yelled at so constantly was very... it definitely put me back in the headspace I was in during some really toxic friendships

[@mi-no3wk]

But she didn't stand by. She constantly tried to speak up. Went to other people for help. She got shut down and belittled. She didn't let anything happen. She had no control and no one who did would help her.

[@gremlita]

dying to know what she wrote in that goodbye letter bc i would've snapped if i was her

[@teeayteeayetc]

Wasn’t she also an employee like I feel like she was being sexually harassed abused by her boss friend and also like just generally nothing good????

[@meh563]

The original concept pictures of the idol was leaked on Twitter and it made me so sad. it looked so fun and girly but Sam and the Weeknd ruined it :(

[@sadraccoon001]

The idol and euphoria both having a scene of women accusing men of SA is such a gross message

[@satanswifey_]

Someone needs to put Sam Levinson on a watchlist. I won't expound on that, you might know why.

[@draculalalaa]

Fr

[@bibimbap5917]

Add weekend to that list as well

[@jasm5213]

@bibimbap5917 Heavy on that. He had a say so in most of the show creativity. He is just as much of a creep.

[@IsabEla-tf5lt]

It's also the weeknd's fault, this show is almost as problematic as his music discography (especially his first albums)

[@halomerric8611]

This generations Weinstein and RKelly.

[@AamuAurora]

Wasn't it implied at the end that Jocelyn was the great manipulator who lied to the 'poor' Tedros about the domestic abuse ("the brush is new" scene)? If so, it shows that creators wanted to sell a story where the creepy abuser (The Weeknd) is a victim of cunning, manipulative and psychotic female who in reality orchestrated everything to experience the abuse he subjected her to, further perpetuating the notion that women like 'r4pey' guys, actively searching and planing their torment because they enjoy it.

[@yaeli_i_guess]

its the same fantasy men have all the time about the cunning underage girl who supposedly manipulates them and not the other way around. she's a sophisticated seductress supposedly. it's also the fantasy of "this woman i'm paying to have sex with me actually wants me and is in love with me" (pretty woman, etc.)

[@yaeli_i_guess]

@@kenzor4953 source: trust me bro

[@jasminv8653]

​@@kenzor4953 and what kind of a man do you think that is 😂😂😂

[@shifa444]

THISSS

[@idontknowanymore1246]

@@kenzor4953Speaking as a woman here… SOME girls are like that, and the majority of those girls are emotionally unstable and have been conditioned to believe they need to act like that to be cared for. I’ll give you the benefit of the doubt and believe that you’re just speaking from what you’ve seen, but this is a really unhealthy way of connecting to people. I’m not saying 100% of women like this are mentally ill or have attachment issues, but… yeah. Please don’t sum up women like this.

[@Marillawen]

The Wkend truly went "It is too much about women, can it be about my character? Oh and I know he did all those horrible things but in the end, can he be the victim? Ok thanks!" and they just went with it.

[@ard4461]

It irritated me how with Tedros and the other guy saddled with the false assault accusation, it's portrayed like they instantly lost all of their their power, money and credibility the second the news broke. When in reality, rich and powerful people get away with that behavior all the time and their careers do not suffer from it. It usually takes an especially horrible offense for these powerful abusers to be held to any account, and even THEN many people will STILL cast doubt and derision towards the victims and support the abuser.

[@yasminealexandraaa]

Sam is nasty and I want him blacklisted but Abel is not blameless. I have always loved his music and followed him closely through the starboy era. He makes mall pop music now but I immediately thought of trilogy when watching this. Trilogy is very dark and downright evil in its lyrics sometimes, but I always loved that album because 1. It’s beautifully produced and 2. it seemed clear that trilogy was a drug fueled persona and a wild, probably exaggeration of his life experiences with Hollywood/fame/nightlife. Now I don’t think I can listen to it without feeling very VERY gross. It’s clear that he’s got some very demented views on women and sex. It just gives me major ick. Lily rose is her own person but I felt like I was just watching herself and her character being traumatized. Especially after seeing the photos of production before we got the foul male fantasy that made it to screen. It sucks man, because I think this means I’m done with Abel’s music. His viewpoint was not favorable and it seems like he’s shown us who he really is…or wants to be. So much ick. I hope this show flies into obscurity after we are all done dragging it to filth.

[@jasminv8653]

For reaaalll

[@Ohana9999]

All of this!!!

[@smidlem1117]

edit: redact this if what I've seen about Abel firing the original director for too much of a "female perspective" and having shit filmed in his house is true. only seen it in KZbin comments so who knows re truth but it's certainly in poor taste i feel like considering how abel has toned down his character pretty considerably across after hours and the more subtle moments on dawn fm that he's trying to make this portrayal self -aware? he's not helped by being stuck alongside sam levinson, who might be the worst writer in hollywood that aspires to the pretension of auteur, but the weeknd has softened his old trilogy persona to the point that iirc he was looking at retiring it because of how distanced he has become from that old douchebag character. with that info and my own personal inferences from across the weeknd's lyrics, it def looks more like the weeknd is trying to show a worst-timeline alternate view of what he might be if he was the trilogy (and later) persona amped up to 11. ofc none of this makes the show better or more comfortable bc if it can't stand on its own, then it fails as a piece of art lmao

[@aafeenshaikh4768]

you so real for that, same it’s like so weird now i can’t think about him in the same way.

[@comehometheyremykidstoo2678]

everytime i listen to any song by Abel now i just think of that one God-forsaken dirty talk/sex scene and it gives me the ick EVERY. SINGLE. TIME.

[@taylorgayhart9497]

That whole monologue about how “mental health problems are sexy” because only hot girls with emotional damage will be into you, felt very pointed at the Weekend’s ex’s… and yeah it’s supposed to come across as distasteful when she says it, but then the show exploits that exact same thing throughout the rest of the season!!!!

[@gigglebox365]

I agree with Mina, I found stretches of the first ep pretty funny, including the obviously satirical "mental illness is sexy" scene. the idea that the monologue was pointed at Selena Gomez feels like a real reach. for a min there in the 2000s it seemed like every single young female star was having a very public nervous breakdown. Selena was one of many and her issues paled in comparison to what happened to Britney and Amanda Bynes.

[@cryforhelp7270]

​@@gigglebox365Please don't compare people's struggles like that.

[@cheycheyfriend247]

@@cryforhelp7270 yeah that was the only part of their comment that was incorrect. it was meant to be satirical though

[@gigglebox365]

​@@cheycheyfriend247 so confused. how is what I said incorrect?

[@jazzichured5796]

Leia and Lexi are the same character and you cannot change my mind, both brown haired quiet and innocent types who get shit on by everyone, even down to the fact of being on the back burner while their friend rue and Jocelyn / sister Cassie in lexi’s case ( I don’t think I have to explain the similarities between Jocelyn and Cassie) goes absolutely nuts

[@EbonyPenmarks]

Yes! Plus, both characters are played by Jewish actresses

[@jazzichured5796]

@@EbonyPenmarks I’m just realizing this now too, both have love interests involved to what the best friend is addicted to

[@haruhinoki-fe4zi]

What annoys me the most is that in 2023 there are still these pedophiles directing series or movies aimed at teenagers and very young people, how is it possible for this to be approved and that's why hbo also annoys me because it doesn't have any criteria and shows cheap soft porn disguised as "art" for young people, normalizing or glamorizing abuse .

[@erenyeagar4686]

the entire show just serves to be torture porn for abusers. i have become jaded towards the fetishization of violence on womens bodies at this point, so i was not surprised at any of the first four episodes, but the ending made even me scream. it is so sick and clearly comes from a place of women hatred on sam and weeknds part. to frame the woman as the evil one who knows what she’s doing when we were watching the dude be the most vile piece of trash of the humankind all along? this is why tedros looked sad at the end when he found out she lied. because he realized he was never abusing her since she liked it so him torturing her served no purpose for him because she enjoyed it. power to the woman and tedros is sad. oh those evil evil women and their manipulative ways. taking the power to abuse them from men by enjoying - allegedly - the abuse. stupidest bullshit i’ve heard all month (bar is low for me)

[@halomerric8611]

Like message was to gaslighting to justify all this dehumanization of women because she liked it. Cosby Hefner Weinstein Epstein Woody Allen Diddy and Dan Schneider RKelly of this generation.

[@fleurjoesten]

I am so sick of the ‘women are manipulative’ trope and men who abuse women are just victims of women. I have heard it time and time again, and whenever a man says this to me, I’m out. Major red flag. Men like this be living in their own world, where women are the villains, they lie, they manipulate and they are out to get ‘good men’ (like them, of course), and as a result they are only punishing women out of some sort of self righteousness. These men really be living in their own self-centered narcissistic fantasies, hurting and punishing women for their own pain and unaddressed trauma. It’s gross.

[@nelthepisces]

you worded my feelings perfectly in your last paragraph….

[@sarah2slayy]

I can’t believe so many people were involved in the making of this show and they thought this was good enough to put out into the world.

[@taylorgayhart9497]

I wonder if one of the reasons the weekend and the original director didn’t get along is because she told him how bad his acting was lol

[@toriyt2714]

That part! Hollyweird I tell ya

[@bibimbap5917]

​@@taylorgayhart9497he hot her fired because her vision was too focused on the female perspective

[@pagesinked]

And the interviews with cast members defending it so hard ugh its cringe lol

[@poeticsparrow]

​@@toriyt2714hard agree. These some weirdos. Like why? Also, I'm not really religious but something feels evil about spending millions of dollars on a gross vanity film project when people out there actually starving. Hollywood is a monolith of exploitation.

[@macusrodrz6338]

The fact that photos of how the idol was supposed to be before Sam took over looked so much better. Like a combination of perfect blue and black swan literally shows the consequences of wasted potential when a man comes and decides to make it their own

[@rclementine77]

If Levinson didnt have that conversion of exploiting women's bodies and consenting nudity swirling around him, maybe then I could see the intimacy coordinator scene as satire. But given Sydney Sweeney's interview, and the rest of the vibe of the show, it feels too on the nose. I don't think it was a hidden gem of satire in a show full of the male gaze and sexualization, I think it's likely just more sexualization

[@avarosegilbert]

the original plot of the show with the female director actually sounded SO interesting. i saw some photos on twitter showing the original direction of the show and would have loved to have seen it. i feel bad for lily-rose depp… sam levinson im at your door…

[@taylorgayhart9497]

I think that’s why the first episode is good, because it shows the remnants of what could have been. So much of what was cut looks like the younger in cheek comedy from episode 1 that made it bearable!

[@Cinamonshinybutt]

I don't feel bad for her. She was okay with it and even praise the Weeknd and Levison for their work. If she was feeling uncomfortable she would have said something cause she is a nepo baby with a lot of influence . She is as weird as them

[@thekalenichannel1812]

​@@Cinamonshinybuttor she didn't want to be blacklisted lmao....hollywood isn't kind to actresses who speak up.

[@shifa444]

@@thekalenichannel1812she’s the daughter of johnny depp and vanessa paradis. she’ll be aight

[@kayjayhay]

I dont think it's fair to make assumptions about Lily's ability to avoid abuse in this industry. She's a famous child of famous actors, but that doesn't make her immune to exploitation. Plenty of starlets from wealthy families (Salma Hayek) or Hollywood legacies (Mira Sorvino) were directly harmed by the industry in spite of whatever power they held, and speaking out would have -- and in some cases did -- tank their careers. Lily clearly wants to be a working actress who is taken seriously. Is she lying about how she feels or being honest? Who knows? But to imply she could never have to protect herself and her career by falling in line because she has famous parents is victim blaming and shallow if that's true, and also ahistoric. If one day she does come out and express that she felt taken advantage of by Sam and Abel, is she going to be believed, or discounted because of her parents? Would the industry say she couldn't hack it because she's spoiled or "difficult"? We can acknowledge that she had a head start in the industry while also acknowledging the industry is cruel to even its most lucrative darlings at times. Ironically, that's kind of the conceit of the show, however poorly crafted it was. She's human. Humans can always be vulnerable when up against a machine that turns on profit.

[@yunyun__]

Another thing I'll never understand is how the hell Jocelyn's career (the only thing the show reinforced that she cares about) wouldn't be over after her showing off Tedros, the dude who was EXPOSED in a prestigious magazine for several crimes few weeks prior, as her boyfriend. It just doesn't make any sense at all.

[@RandomSwiftie13]

Yeah that would literally be the end of her career... The fact that it would be a mass public knowledge that he kidnapped his ex girlfriend and tortured her for DAYS!! That man deserves no redemption arc at all.

[@Mictlantecuhtli]

The whole show is a complete mess. It is so inconsistent it hurts. It was greenlighted by the same people who thought GoT season 8 should be aired in that state probably.

[@mellowmorgan]

Based on what the weeknd has said about this show, and on his music (vapid, misogynistic, objectifying, manipulative), he didn't really act. He just played himself as far as I can tell.

[@13realmusic]

I love that Mina still makes the occasional timely video with no sponsor like she really cares about her channel’s quality more than anything else!

[@taylorgayhart9497]

Anyone else feel like The Weekend read “I’m Glad My Mom Is Dead” and went “that’s hot” and then had someone write him an even more fucked up script???

[@seekittycat]

During the hairbrush scene this is exactly what went through my head I felt so disgusted and couldn't believe how they framed this

[@yanavav]

I remember some tweet saying that Jocelyn was inspired by jenette McCurdy/Britney in regards to the abuse they experienced both on a familial/social level

[@hi89297]

and those 75 million dollars could have been donated to a charity

[@BellesView]

20% of it could’ve gone to Generation season 2.

[@poeticsparrow]

​@@rickking228hey umm they filmed the end of the Nevers but it only ever aired on tubi because hbo parted ways with joss whedon who is allegedly an abuser in the film industry. It sucks for the cast & crew and it's hard to find but it's out there.

[@Ronsquaremy]

Or to Healthcare or Cancelling student debt or paying for people's expensive ass rent 😅

[@pani.slecna]

*pledged

[@kcmoon]

and you'll still see fans make excuses for all the actors and actresses involved, as if they're not grown adults

[@bananatiergod]

I mean, yes but no? Aside from the Weekend, the other actors didn't really have as much involvement in the writing process, they just work under a contract they're obligated to follow, probably all the way back from when the original version of the series was made. This shit is way out of their hands.

[@kcmoon]

@@bananatiergod possibly for the less known actors sure but for the rich and/or famous ones, they could have found a way to get out of it it (ie paying money). better to lose that than self respect

[@bananatiergod]

@@kcmoon Most them weren't exactly A-list actors though, except maaaaybe Rachel Sennott and if we wanna really stretch if, Jennie, but that's about it. Most of them are mitigated to minor roles in other movies.

[@LuxrayVillage]

what gets me about the “twist” is that it feels like they’re trying to compare it to the Amber Heard situation. it feels pretty direct where the woman is portrayed as the victim but is actually the abuser… as if they were trying to say hey guys Amber isn’t the victim. just driving the knife in and setting up that framing of abuse accusations against famous men all over again.

[@kamsismith]

If you want a story about a female musician struggling with mental health and it's portrayed in a sympathetic and sensitive way, I recommend The Unraveling of Cassidy Holmes. The book is about Cassidy Holmes(as the title suggests) who was a former member of Gloss, a 90s-2000s girl group that's based on the Spice Girls. She commits suicide and the members who haven't spoken to her after they disbanded attempt to process the loss and what they should have done to help her. It's a much more interesting story than The Idol.

[@lollabunyxxx]

wow, i hope i can find it on kindle to read it as soon as possible, it sounds interesting! just for curiosity, is the girl band in the book also British (like the spice girls)

[@kamsismith]

⁠@@lollabunyxxxNo, they're American.

[@shifa444]

perfect blue is also a good movie (it’s animated but sometimes it could be pretty uncomfortable/disturbing)

[@johanna9845]

TRUE

[@absolutelynotellen]

Also, i want to tell you of a korean movie called "White: Melody of Death" and it's also a good story! It was told about a struggling girl group and women often get pitted each other (?) from what i remember

[@glasstablegcrls]

i love it when ppl say “i just made the show of the summer/song of the summer” and then it just becomes the most hated, diabolical, and impetuous thing that has ever been shown to mankind

[@NicNakToe]

I don’t understand how we’re supposed to believe that she made up the hairbrush thing... earlier episodes showed at least one friend admitting that he knew about/witnessed the hairbrush beatings. And he got tortured because he didn’t say anything to anyone about it. I just don’t get it

[@bananatiergod]

It's simple: You're not. Sam Levinson is just a horrible writer LOL

[@KGDanny02]

If I’m being perfectly honest, the way I interpreted this scene was quite different (but somehow made it worse too). What I thought when watching that scene was “oh, Jocelyn wants Tedros back into her life to use him so that she can be inspired by the abuse he inflicted on her with the new hairbrush”. Essentially, what I thought, was that she threw the hairbrush that her mom beat her with away and got a new one so that Tedros can take her mom’s place. What the show is telling us is that Jocelyn wants to keep being abused with the hairbrush because that inspires her and she wants Tedros to be the one to do it... which... um... WHAT THE ACTUAL F*CK?! LIKE SERIOUSLY?! That’s just so much worse!!! So no matter how we interpret this scene, it’s terrible! So yeah, f*ck Sam Levinson and f*ck the Weeknd!

[@RandomSwiftie13]

It's just a plot hole. It's garbage writing.

[@Gabriel-br4qe]

Don't forget that Sam Levinson is the guy that literally wrote the line "Which in retrospect seems kind of rape-y and weird, but honestly, she was the one in control" in Euphoria and HBO thought it was ok. So I'm not surprised that him and Abel could join forces in their creepy endeavor

[@taylorgayhart9497]

Honestly I don’t think Euphoria is going to come back at this point. It’s already been pushed back to *2025* which is absolutely insane, these actors will be 30 and supposedly seniors in High School? But now with all the backlash, none of Euphoria’s cast has been supporting Sam, and I think they are ready to move on.

[@mhawang8204]

I think so especially they all have projects outside Euphoria, but the show is too popular for HBO to let it go. And they are probably contractually obligated to do it if it continues into S3...another Riverdale situation.

[@rebeccac324]

it’s been predicted there’s a time jump in the new season of euphoria but but idk how well that will play out. the first episode would have to be a whole recap explaining what happened to everyone and the cliff hangers

[@RandomSwiftie13]

Euphoria season 3 is going to be an even bigger train wreck OMFG.

[@KimmyLL1890]

Maddie’s Actor already is 30.

[@remytherat2929]

Wait seriously that’s an insane amount of in between season time

[@whatalsaid]

The behind the scenes photos of the FIRST version of The Idol showed a VERY different show. The version Amy Seimez was directing was 80% complete before being completely overhauled. It was gonna be more of a Britney Spears type figure fighting to control her own image, and the set photos had a more 2000s girly pop vibe. There would have been flashbacks to Jocelyn's time as a Miley Cyrus/Selena Gomez like child star, and they even had two young recurring actresses who were gonna play Jocelyn's younger sisters.

[@ImPunky1022]

Haven’t watched the show, looks boring and repulsive. I find it pretty gross that they make obvious references to actual women who have been abused and exploited in the entertainment industry(Britney Spears, Jeanette McCurdy, Miley Cyrus, Amber Heard) and try to spin the story so that they were actually not just involved in their own abuse but planned and enjoyed it. Like it may just be a coincidence but it seems like a personal dig at Amber Heard to hire Lily Rose Depp to play a manipulative starlet. The whole show seems like a thinly veiled response to criticism the writers have received about their misogyny.

[@crystalclear675]

Amber Heard shouldn’t be on that list. She exploited and abused the whole metoo movement riding on the back of abused women for her own personal gain. The trial didn’t even expose half of the terrible things she’s done

[@crystalcastillo7575]

I like The Weeknd’s music too & was a huge fan of him back in the day. But you can’t excuse the damaging effort he made towards making the show more misogynistic. I mean hes one of the reasons why the script was changed in the first place and was made less “female-centered” plus besides how good his music is, his earlier work is FLOODED with misogynistic, themes and lyrics. Like I remember going to one of his shows back in 2013-14 for kids land and he literally had a presentation of naked girls in the background as he sung. I don’t think his personality/ past actions are too far off from those of Tedros …..

[@manderly33]

If anything good comes out of this, let it be that entertainment executives will stop assuming that recording artists can act.

[@dsds7395]

Recording artist? That is a big stretch. No talent hack that has to rely on autotune lol.

[@mfuentes4961]

KennieJD tweeted that the series makes it look like Sam thinks that he’s Paul Verhoeven when ‘Showgirls’ came out and she’s so right. Sam and Abel made a series that wanted to give off the same vibes and controversy as Showgirls but their shitty writing and constant objectification of their female characters led to an absolute shit show.

[@mochhhhee]

A fellow home skillet biscuit the wild!

[@gaymerg0rlbathwater]

that is a very accurate comparison fr (also eyyy I love kennie, happy to see fellow biscuits here)

[@universedonut159]

Home skillet biscuit! Yup just watched her video today

[@Mku-JJ1if]

There was also a whole tiktok about the paralles between Jocelyn and Selena Gomez. This show was objectively so bad. I am also disappointed at Jennie for choosing such a misogynistic and problematic show i hope she knows how terribly this flopped. I would be mad if she got awards for her role its so weird. I hope she saw all the backlash and chooses her next project more sensibly.

[@lovelymill]

well when everyone sighed to this show it was completely different story, then sam levinson came in and changed everything (they were changing thing like every day), ig it would be hard to break the contract in the middle of the show. you can still judge them but details must be taken into account

[@pandas4evr123197]

The Podcast "You Must Remember This" talks briefly about how when Madonna started her acting career, people had a hard time separating her star persona from the characters she played in movies, which led to them judging her by the types of characters she chose to play. I think this can happen a lot when artists choose to branch out into acting, especially if their character seems similar to their star persona.

[@melvinant]

Exactly! The most annoying thing about this show was the characters having conversations about what had happened instead of it being SHOWN to us the viewers. It almost feels like they didn’t have the budget to film everything on multiple locations giving we rarely ever left the house; so they put dialogue to contextualize and give us some of the important details that where missing.

[@toomuchinformation]

It IS cheaper (apparently it was The Weeknd’s house), but it also produced a feeling of claustrophobia, which is how I’d imagine it’d be working and living in such an environment.

[@melvinant]

@@toomuchinformation Yeah the concert scenes where also at his concert. They basically blew out the budget by filming 80% with the female director and then firing her to instead hire Sam Levinson. At the end of the show I came to the realization that the whole thing occurred at the house; witch shows how CHEAP this show was.

[@toomuchinformation]

@@melvinant The Idol was just promotion for his music and concerts.

[@fleurjoesten]

@@toomuchinformationThat is literally what being in a toxic environment/abusive relationship feels like, because it’s so focused on each other, instead of experiencing the world together. I don’t think it was done on purpose, but that feeling of being closed of from the world is such a representation of how toxic this whole show is, and I 100% believe that behind the scenes it was the same way. It felt traumatic to me, ngl.

[@melvinant]

@@toomuchinformation I actually think The Weeknd wanted this to be his opportunity to pivot into acting. Hence why he’s going crazy on Twitter responding to every bad comment about the show.

[@annaroubic]

I would rather watch 100 videos ABOUT The Idol then watch the show itself. And I've been doing the same with Euphoria ever since it began. And I'm a happier human bc of it.

[@ghadakameche2248]

Same i swear

[@AthalieM]

haha, I definitely watch (ie keep hitting the 10 second skip-ahead) just so I can be informed when I read the reviews and discussion. one thing you can say for the show, it occupied the 'discourse' for a few months

[@AmandaAppel666]

What drives me crazy about the hairbursh plot twist is that she literally didn't gain anything from this "manipulation"! Like if we are to believe that she was in control all of the time, why did she do it? what did she get? She got beaten with a hairbrush and abused. I guess maybe we're supposed to believe that she got a creative boost from it or what? But if that was the goal of it all, surely she could have gotten there without subjecting herself to this horrible treatment. It just makes no sense and they play it like this deep plot twist.

[@ffx2fan122]

I feel like we had 4 episodes of being force fed that Jocelyn and Tedros were so sexually in love with each other that the sudden shift in power felt awkward. I think that goes for a lot of them, like Xander's character being one of Tedros minions feels so sudden and bizarre, but in the end they are all rewarded...? Like what is happening?

[@sheelayuan2443]

I also wish it went more of a cult route because the whole “idol” concept being a double entendre was super interesting to me. Not to even mention the fact that literal K-pop idols and groups have now been exposed to being related to and funded by cults in real life (E’last) and this show had a literal K-pop idol in it like,,,, it could have been so good and they flopped so hard 😭

[@WhySoPrettyJinsoul.]

Wait what? E'last?????

[@robinwangai3303]

Don't forget JMS. I'm not kidding, an idol was forced into that cult as a child. Search it up.

[@kaydkaydkayd]

@@robinwangai3303do u mean kyoungyoon ? his whole family was in that group :/ i feel so bad for him bc of all the vile shit that ppl were saying :(

[@kaydkaydkayd]

@@WhySoPrettyJinsoul.yeah some members were in the church their whole lives n they also apparently received millions of won from that church to kickstart the group … its why ppl have been boycotting their content for about a month now :(

[@80s_graffiti]

​​@@robinwangai3303kyoungyoon was NOT a member of the cult, we must clarify. His parents were, but they joined more out of the sense of community than devotion to the leader. But that's what was so terrifying about JMS; hundreds of thousands of supporters who casually enabled one of, if not, the most notorious international mass rapist of all time. Luckily, he has taken a break to move away from this horrible situation, but from what we know, he was not a 'true' follower.

[@peytoncooley8778]

I kinda hope they give Amy the opportunity to finish her version and release it. Not only because it seems far more interesting, but also just as a slap in the face to the weekend and Sam levinson

[@tanjimhannan4627]

they should have made this show a mockumentary

[@uncertain_zee]

I feel like in the original version the part where she was "actually manipulating him all along" was probably more just she realized what was happening and decided to take him down, because its so easy to make this story into that. Its hard for me to see her as a villain when she got this guy's victims out of the cult and actually gave them some fame and exposed what a fucking creep he was. I would get behind it if it was like.. okay like she started noticing he was abusive, maybe with the whole thing where he has sexual moments with the girl they were gonna replace her with, and that snaps her out of his manipulation. So she decides to test it by making up the story about the brush - the abuse was real but she makes that story up to see what he does with that, with intimate details about her abuse. She sees he uses it to keep controlling her and to revictimize her and it cements for her that hes a bad person and she decides to get revenge by destroying his empire. THAT'S a story I'd watch.

[@aadvani22]

What I hated about this show is that they did SO MUCH telling and not showing! (Tedros’ past, Jocelyn’s childhood and experience as a child star) + they skipped over so many compelling plot points like the 6 weeks she had until her tour

[@vitoriabottaro]

if they really wanted to tell a compelling story they would have to cut a lot of useless sex and fetish scenes, and we can't have THAT happen, right??

[@carrot_sok]

my only question after watching the idol was "what were they trying to say?" the shots were beautiful but they couldn't make me believe there was any valuable meaning behind them

[@ernie39]

exactly!

[@mhawang8204]

That's Sam Levinson's work in a nutshell. All aesthetics, no substance.

[@violetystars]

The biggest issue I have with the show is that Lily Rose Depp’s character is so close to Selena Gomez, who The Weekend dated. And then it feels like emotionally manipulating knowing he changed the story line to then center himself on a story that was about a woman who had similar fame to his ex’s and friends. It’s feel like an excuse to make some type of therapy for him and Sam.

[@virgosun_]

I wanted Leia to stand up for herself it would have been such a good pay off just telling everyone to f$ck off. We were robbed 😢

[@thescarediest]

“What man knows how old a hairbrush looks” 💀😂

[@boopityboopboop]

There were blind items saying that Dan Levy hated Levinson's script and that's why he downplayed his role in the overall show

[@pagesinked]

I hope so.

[@mhawang8204]

I hope so. Being a writer himself, it must be painful to work with a self-important douche like Levinson.

[@treeanimation368]

After seeing the pictures of Amy Seimetz’ version of the idol, I’m actually sad at what it turned into. Her version seemed like a girly cute with a dark twist version vs, what we actually got 🤢. This is actually so disappointing and upsetting

[@UniversalChallenge4454]

the perfect world with a dark side never goes wrong in my book

[@marigoldwitch]

Sam just needs to make 🌽 bc at this point he’s just using these bad actors to make soft core 🌽