The Impossible Camera Feature: Shutter Angle

[@irashid5406]

I wasn't wearing glasses, I was disappointed when I clicked on the thumbnail and it wasn't Keanu Reeves explaining cameras to me

[@aboywithnoname]

Wtf 😂😂😂

[@Geethepancake]

I completely get your point but the video at the side didn’t really serve any purpose 😭

[@ecsix]

It's really distracting too.

[@John69420]

He should have put some subway surfers gameplay

[@joojosart7772]

sometimes you just gotta go for a rant^^

[@barezina]

Sony uses these points of difference in software to make money, that's the simple reason. Example: The A7S3 has identical electronics (sensor/processing pipeline) to the FX3 and some would argue has more functionality because it has a viewfinder, but people will happily pay $1000USD more for the FX3 because it has more software features (one of these being shutter angle) as well as CineEI and custom LUTs. The FX3 is a software upgraded A7S3 with a permanent cage on it and a viewfinder delete. :D

[@EricLouisYoung]

Open gate would be trivial for sony to add to all their recent cameras with a firmware update. It's about a dozen lines of code or less. Even shutter angle is more difficult to implement. Speaking as a 20 year software architect.

[@JeffBourke]

SONY always cripple cameras to protect other bodies in their eco system. Sometimes they let a feature through, then everyone complains. Remember when the FX30 got focus breathing before the FX3 and A9? Everyone was up in arms. It was ridiculous.

[@through_the_lens_art]

@@JeffBourke FX30 May have the same CPU as A6700, A7CII/R hence this was implemented earlier. However what annoys me the most is Sony's lack of 30p XAVC-HS / HAVC-S. I can always switch to NTSC to get 24p but why it can't be done like in Fuji, where we have a codec selected and all possible framerated. 24/25p isn't good enough sometimes as it's super jerky especially on panning shots.

[@CineGui]

Have you heard of canon crippling hammer? They all do it and they dont even try to hide it​@@JeffBourke

[@BrandonZacharie]

Not sure where you're getting that idea. The limitation isn't software, it's hardware. The bus bandwidth isn't enough to do full sensor readout. Even if it were, there would be deal-breaking compromises like display blackout. The "crippling" is done at the chipset. They don't put the most advanced chips in every camera. And that has more to do with power requirements and costs. Sony, like most everyone else, has to wait for advancements in computing made by other players (TSMC, Arm, Intel, Qualcomm, etc.) and/or design themselves which is a lot slower. Computers are not magic, processing power isn't unlimited, these cameras don't have smart phone chips nor batteries in them. As a software engineer, you should know the constraints of the system you're designing for.

[@CydeWeys]

@@sertocd "assuming camera processor has enough horse power to utilize to full sensor read and processing without compromise" -- lol, that's a huge assumption there though. Also it's not just the processor, it's the heat dissipation capabilities. Open gate recording builds up more heat and the recording will turn off sooner. It's all compromises. Open gate is not just a trivially solvable software problem like shutter angle is (which is just doing some basic arithmetic to automatically set the shutter speed).

[@VGScreens]

I've been complaining for a decade that it's not standard to allow custom aspect ratio lines and safety margin overlays instead of just useless things like rule of thirds grids etc. Even if companies made it a chore to enter and you had to do the maths yourself and input a pixel number for each line.

[@_tographer]

Lumix cameras have a pretty robust frame outline system in their menu. Pretty much any aspect ratio you want can be overlaid no matter what format you’re shooting.

[@MoeAdel_]

Nikon just released an update today adding this feature in the z9 Nice thing that they are listening Hope they do the same for z8 and z6iii

[@pureheartvisuals]

This was the very reason I literally did not regret moving from to LUMIX exclusively. Sony and Canon could have done this years ago… THEY chose not to… mostly like to say, we are the true photo/video only cameras. Sony is hustling so bad with this Shuttle Angle Ownership.

[@Chase-Video]

The A1 and R5C are Sony and Canon hybrid cameras that have shutter angle. I agree they should be adding this to the mid range options though.

[@kristofjuhasz1963]

I love your videos Keanu!

[@Holtenstein]

I haven't had to use shutter angle in so long that I completely forgot about it. I just wiped the thought from my mind. You just reminded me of the old days. I wouldn't even of thought to mention that to a Sony shooter.

[@kelvin9024]

I agree Sony should add shutter angle - but I shoot on Sony and have found it pretty easy to work around this, A74 and A7S3 both have 3 custom dial options. I sent number 1 to 24fps 1/50 - 2 to 30fps 1/60 - 3 to 60fps 1/125 - and done! Not much of a headache in reality.

[@_tographer]

My point is we shouldn’t have to find and deal with workarounds in 2024 when they hype 4K, 6k, 8k, 10bit, 422, log, autofocus, ibis, etc etc etc - when one of the most basic features still isn’t included by default.

[@tycjanjakubczyk]

I'm not from the US, so I'm not entirely sure how it works there. Do you not have flickering issues when shooting at 1/50 shutter speed while recording in 24 frames? I've noticed that in Europe, when filming indoors (e.g., in a church) at 30fps, I followed the shutter angle rule and doubled the shutter speed, but everything ended up heavily flickering. (Perhaps newer cameras can handle flicker regardless of the power frequency in Hz?) Maybe that's why most people in Europe shoot in 25fps or 50fps to match the 50Hz power frequency. However, since most modern cameras produce good quality up to 60fps, it's better to slow footage down from 60fps (or even 30fps) to 24fps rather than from 50fps to 25fps. This gives you a slight advantage in frame rate for slowing down footage even a bit more.

[@ExtremelySimplified]

I absolutely agree with you. Shutter Angle should be the new standard for all kinds of new cameras. It's such a useful feature! I wish Lumix would release more cameras in the future to let new people know what their cameras are capable of, especially with their new PDAF system.

[@Samvisualarts]

Thank you for shining light on this extremely frustrating, and long running issue

[@LJLeeTV]

I feel like 2019 was the peak of cameras Smartphones updates nerfs the phone these days so.. Nah maybe am overthinking

[@CineGui]

XT3 was released in 2018 and that was a beast of a camera

[@Chase-Video]

I think 2020 as that’s when 10-bit became standard across all the brands. Also, the A7sIII was released that year, and that sensor really changed the game.

[@3dtrip870]

I didn’t quite understand how important shutter angle was until you talked about the production environment and how you can accidentally mess up the frame rates; at first, I thought you were making a big deal out of a small thing but now I get it. I’m a photographer and I use video, but I’ve never had to be in a big video production environment.

[@LucienneGainsborough]

IMO shutter angle is not as direct as shutter speed + fps since it's a derived variable. The shutter speed controls the brightness and the motion blur, while fps simply changes fps. If you can only control the shutter angle, changing the fps while maintaining the same exposure requires another step. That being said, having an additional option and let users decide is always better.

[@Jeff_Lathrop]

Its a cinema feature, not a photo feature. Black magic cams use shutter angle...

[@SprocketHoles]

Looks like the Nikon Z9 (and the Z8 I hope) is getting shutter angle in a firmware update soon. A demo unit was spotted on a show floor with new firmware and shutter angle.

[@CineGui]

You can program your camera to ajust the shutter when you change the frame rate on the XH2s, by creating custom profiles. May not be shutter angle, but thats a fantastic camera!

[@JeffBourke]

Why would you use shutter angle in your panasonic when the Speed/Gain option is so much more useful as you always know what your base ISO is in all pictureprofiles.

[@dsdddsd4543we]

Shuttle Angle is just a few lines of code. I'm surprised Sony hasn't added it to the video modes of the mirrorless cameras.

[@FlockofSwan]

honestly any slr/mirrorless style camera doesn’t need shutter angle, its more gimmicky then. I’d only be looking for shutter angle on a cine specific camera. Camcorders/ Cine line cameras.

[@Joshua-McField]

Honestly, this video wasn’t what I expected. I thought it would explain why shutter angle hasn’t been implemented in hybrid cameras. Personally, I use a Canon R5C, so I already shoot with shutter angle, and I don’t think I could go back. However, while I understand the concerns mentioned in this video, I believe there are far more important features than shutter angle. For most scenarios, like shooting a movie or an interview, you're primarily working at 24 or 30 fps (depending on your region). Higher frame rates are typically reserved for B-roll or specific shots. Changing the shutter speed for those moments isn’t a big deal because it’s just one quick step on a dial. That said, I do think it’s important for people to understand the 180-degree shutter rule, which is 360/angle = shutter speed. For example: At 24 fps, using the 180-degree rule: 360/180 = 2. Multiply that by the frame rate (24 fps), and you get a shutter speed of 1/48 for natural motion blur. In cases like shooting sports, you might use a 90-degree shutter angle for less motion blur. At 60 fps, 360/90 = 4, so 4 x 60 = a shutter speed of 1/240. That being said, I think there are more valuable features that hybrid cameras could prioritize, like: Full-sensor readouts for shooting anamorphic or creating versatile content that can work across platforms like social media and KZbin. External recording to SSDs. A better LCD hinge, like the one on the A7R5. CFexpress Type B card slots for faster media handling. While shutter angle is a nice feature, these additions would make a bigger impact on overall usability and versatility for hybrid shooters.

[@indigocotton4187]

I go in & out of phase understanding this. So to be clear the LUMIX set the shutter speed 2x your frame rate automatically when you select 180° ? Do they allow 180° 90° 45° or can you set it to any angle ?

[@Ulrich.Bierwisch]

It's just a different unit like meter or feet with some basic calculations and a differences in the display. Waveform and vector scope are harder to do but still just a bit of software.

[@viggokoch]

I agree. BUT shutter angle is an odd and outdated concept for a beginner/photographer to learn, maybe that is why they are hesitant to make it available in hybrid cameras? Like, ”what does angles have to do with anything?” Is a totally valid thought when they see it in the settings. A modern equivalent to shutter angle could just be exposure time as a percentage. Easy to understand and no connection to old-school tech.

[@chevonpetgrave4991]

Shutter angle is a video feature. There are so many video centric features that hyr ids are adding that wouldnt make any sense to phogographers or they dont care or need it. 4:2:2 10 bit Open gate 2.4:1 aspect ratio The list is long. Shutter angle would be no different. Abd a tually shutter angle would simplify a photographer who wants yo shoot video or beginner’s workflow. You can literally set it at 180 and forget it for video. I cant tell you how many times people shooting drone footage have asked why their footage looks so jittery with motion when doing fast motion or regar filming. They dont know that with shutter speed they have to change it everytime the change. frame rate or that it needs to match frame rate.

[@ThisIsLeeBird]

I’ve shot lumix and BMD for a long time now. Something else we have got to enjoy for a long time also, is the ability to jam sync time code 🤣🤣🤣🤣 oh and easy menus!

[@alex_rogan]

Most manufactures wont include it on mirrorless "stills" cameras because it will suddenly make it a "video" camera and I'm sure that messes with thier revenue and marketing plans.

[@_tographer]

If that were the case, why include 4k, 6k, 8k? 10bit? 422? Log? 60p? 120p? Audio? Surely those features make it a "video" camera as much as a "stills" camera.

[@EverythingEverywhereSean]

Is it really that hard to multiple your fps by 2 to determine your shutterspeed?

[@_tographer]

Hard? No. Tedious every time you switch your frame rate? Yes.

[@daviddornblaser4512]

Great video, very informative. Thank you.

[@annijoshle-th8kp]

Why aren't you mentioning Blackmagic when talking about filming?

[@_tographer]

You’re right, I should mention them more often but unfortunately they have yet to make a true hybrid from my POV. Cine box cams are cool but I also want essential photo features like ibis and reliable autofocus.

[@EricLouisYoung]

Maybe sony will add it when they remove head from ass and add 30fps h.265

[@RandumbTech]

Amen!

[@righthererightnowproductio9525]

Greedy corporate opulence.

[@flightographist]

I've been known to forget shutter speed.

[@SullyCortez]

Hahaha, Stronz! My man hope you’re doing well! It’s been awhile since I’ve been on YT, but man this video literally reminded me of the good ole GH4/GH5. And how much I loved having Shutter Angle and just not worrying about having to switch since I’m now a Sony shooter with the FX3 & A7RV. I did a video that is still on my channel from years ago that stresses the use of Shutter Angle over Shutter Speed and holy cripe Sony what the hell, it’s 2024! 😂 🤦‍♂️

[@_tographer]

Good to see you back!

[@benolakshman863]

Is there actually any difference in Setting shutter angle to 180 or shutter Speed 1/Double the Frame rate? Other than the inconvenience to remember and set the shutter Speed right, is there any benefit? I suppose for bigger productions, where multiple cameras are used, this might be a big difference, but also i think in that case most productions use Cinema cameras or cameras from the Brands Cinema line, which should have this as standard, i guess. I definetely think all Brands should just have the Option there, but i’m not really getting the dealbraker kind of vibe. 🤷‍♂️

[@_tographer]

Is it a big deal when someone forgets to format their memory card before a shoot? Is it a big deal when someone shoots the wrong white balance? How about when someone shoots 30fps when the project is supposed to be 24fps? Or when they record their audio mono when it should be stereo? Or when they accidentally left the camera recording for an extra 30 minutes? Forgot to turn on ibis for handheld. Forgot to charge a battery. Forgot to bring an extension cord. Etc etc etc Production is messy and humans make mistakes. There are so many little variables and at the end of the day you can “make it work” but the more you can protect yourself from those little problems, the better off you will be at solving the actual bigger deal problems that pop up.

[@448FILMS]

Im with you on this 💯 percent

[@PandoShiro]

yes, teaching folks the best practices of filmmaking is important and manufactures like Sony should provide the option for people choose working either shutter speed or angle, especially when they offer A7s for example thats considered a photography product first, video as a feature. It's bad faith to not have shutter angle available just because its a photography camera vs their cinema line FX workflow. Bare minimum, if it shoots video, let the users have the choice to use video tools and units of measures

[@godoy1]

Great point for a debate, shameful to see how Sony has handled this issue!! I have an a7s3 and I'm very disappointed with this!!!

[@vinhsanity]

Wanna get ridiculous slow motion… Shoot in 120fps but crank the shutter speed up instead of using an ND. I forgot what podcast I heard that on, but when I tried it 🤯 Also, I use the custom settings so maybe i just don’t notice shutter angle is missing. Would I like it, yes - without a doubt.

[@neilrocks25]

Is this another lumix video going at Sony? I have seen a lot this week. It’s like android vs iOS videos and kind of sad. The idea for Sony is they have a dedicated cinema line but real reason for Sony being popular is the lens line up being opened up. They have far more options.

[@Dikkker]

Yes, pleeeeeeeeeaaaaaaaassssseeeeee!!!!

[@MightyMigi]

All my cameras have SA and i'm never using SS ever again, only for photos

[@TvBoxHead]

Not a top priority compared to other features. Rather have low light and superb AF. Shutter angle is also available in the fx3 now via update.

[@_tographer]

it should just be basic a function

[@alansarpy]

Sony doesn't want to cripple their cinema Line by adding shutter angle to the a7siii lol such a joke .. The a7siii'S last update could of easily included shutter Angle

[@NeZversSounds]

Why you need something like that? Just double your FPS and that's the shutter speed. shutter speed = FPS * 2 Think of it as getting motion blur for half the frame time

[@HumanAreYou]

Because in a fast shooting environment - it's just one thing that can go wrong, so easily.

[@neilrocks25]

I wonder why you are showing the A7RV it’s primary a photo camera? I agree about shutter angle but the A7RV is not the best example.

[@vaishnav_vfx]

Keanu Reeves

[@islandfilmmakerbvi]

FACTS!

[@MichaelKefeder]

I'd argue that using shutter angle forces you to do silly math in your head. with shutter speed I can adapt much easier to the environment, e.g. video at 25fps but some computer monitor at 60Hz looks funky, good luck fixing that with changing shutter angle. With shutter speed I just set it to a mulitple of 1/60 and done. Also when you know that you're shooting 50fps for slo-motion later, I leave the shutter speed at 1/50 to have the 180 degree rule at the playback speed. With shutter-angle again weird math needed to adapt,... I have cameras that support shutter angle, have not used it, ever, as it gets in my way.

[@_tographer]

I think your arguments are based in a misunderstanding of shutter angle, which is kind of my point. We've "lost" our understanding of shutter angle so people think its confusing. There are specific times you may prefer to use shutter speed and thats totally valid. But in general, shutter angle is way more useful and actually reduces the need for the "silly math in your head"

[@valdemarcaballero493]

what a rant

[@_tographer]

I’ll turn off my rant function when they add the shutter angle function

[@valdemarcaballero493]

@ 👍👍👍 thanks for your comment

[@SatongiFilms]

you don't need it. archaic calculation, obsolete.

[@_tographer]

😂

[@JeffBourke]

The "film look" is not the angle - it's the 1/50 (sorry 1/48) shutter speed. Also, the "film look" is played back at 24 fps. If you're shooting for online content, 80% of your audience is viewing on a 60HZ display which can NOT playback at 24fps. You are better to shoot at 30 fps and then use the "film look" shutter of 1/48 and then you don't have the judder from the 3:2 pulldown.

[@_tographer]

None of what you said is correct

[@Samvisualarts]

n00b

[@sardanapalos]

really 12 mins just talking about this? just use lumix mate... no idea what is this useful since you have a solution.... raise awareness? who cares? use the tool that works better, unless i am missing something?

[@_tographer]

I do use lumix…

[@sardanapalos]

@@_tographer then what's the point of this? who cares what sony and canon does?

[@iDealMedley]

Shutter angle is creatively very limited imo

[@_tographer]

I don’t know what you mean

[@iDealMedley]

@@Jeff_Lathrop it is, try doing shutter drag on shutter angle, it's soo underwhelming

[@FlockofSwan]

shutter angle is irrelevant in photography no?

[@_tographer]

Correct

[@JeffBourke]

Shutter Angle should really be a thing of the past now. Online content should NOT be created in 24fps. The 180 "rule" is NOT a rule at all. Shooting at 60 fps, you would be fooling to use 180° shutter when you can literally double your light by opening it fully. The motion blur argument is absurd. So much bad information on youtube.

[@_tographer]

60fps at 1/60 is chop suey

[@Samvisualarts]

noob

[@righthererightnowproductio9525]

Depends what you're shooting. A quiet interview work with long exposure. But other things get pretty blurry.

[@JeffBourke]

Because cameras don't use adjustable wheels for the shutter anymore. If you're getting back to basics, "angle" is simly the WRONG way to think about your shutter. If you shooting 30fps with a 1/60 shutter and you switch to shooting some 60 fps.. well you can use the SAME SHUTTER SPEED and you don't need to adjust exposure. The whole shutter angle cry is ridiculous.

[@_tographer]

I think your example proves my point.

[@Jeff_Lathrop]

You can use the same shutter speed, but it will be choppy. 2x frame rate for shutter speed is a motion blur thing.

[@Samvisualarts]

n00b

[@iDealMedley]

I'd rather sony have variable shutter in every camera it's more powerful can dial to the tea. It's soo useful when shooting against led walls. Shutter angle kinda overrated imo, you cant get that wong kar Wai long exposure vibe

[@_tographer]

There’s synchro scan for reducing light flicker, you can dial your angle by individual degrees.