The "Impossible Turn" in a Cessna 172 - Rebranding it as "Improbable Turn"

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My CFI demos the "impossible" turn and shows why he wants to rebrand it as the "improbable" turn.
*This is not intended as instruction! This is a great topic to ask your CFI about, have them demo and go over all of the risks involved.*

[@Zalaniar]

There's one MAJOR problem here though. He cuts power and begins turning at the exact same moment. Ignoring the half-second or so that humans take to react to literally anything, if you have an engine failure on takeoff, you're gonna have a solid couple seconds of nearly stalling before you figure out what just happened and push the nose down. Then on top of that, you need to consider a second or two to think "OK, where am I putting this?" and decide if you're going forward or turning around. That's why people so often quote 1000 feet AGL as the cutoff...to factor in the reaction/decision time. Let alone that no one is going to fly perfectly in an emergency.

[@Bill4LE]

Exactly...we talk about most of that after we touch down. There is a lot of considerations and things you need to know even before you takeoff if this is even an option.

[@juicenot2481]

That's why he called it the improbable turn, not the impossible turn. The impossible turn cannot be done, its literally impossible

[@GZA036]

That is why you do take off briefings, to be primed to react. Say to yourself, _"The engine is going to fail on this takeoff, what is my plan...."_ *Every. Single. Time.* Sample take-off briefing: "Taking off from RWY24, climbing straight out to 2000. Winds are 290° at 7. We'll accelerate to Vr, rotate, 10° nose up Vy. Engine failure or abnormality prior to rotation: close throttle and come to a complete stop. Engine failure after lift off and there is runway available? close throttle and land on remaining runway. Engine failure before 500 agl, landing straight ahead. Above 500 agl, immediate 45° bank R turn (into the wind) back to the runway, glide speed" Like an athlete visualizing a sequence of complex actions prior to performing them. All the decisions are already made, now you execute.

[@andresvalverde5430]

It would be interesting to see this maneuver at a high density altitude airport, a heavy loaded aircraft and about 5 seconds delay on the pilots reaction...

[@tylerfb1]

As said previously, all those decisions must be made BEFORE you take off. If it's your home field, you should already know where you're going to put the airplane if you have an engine failure. You brief it as part of the pre-takeoff checklist. "if engine out with usable runway set it back down, before 500 ft I'm going to farmer Joe's field, after 500 I'm turning back" etc. Then call out those decision points when they happen. Professional pilots do this every single time. It is literally part of the checklist. That's what the V1, and V2 speeds are.

[@wyatt92563]

This showed up in my KZbin algorithm. To my surprise it was videoed at F70! I started my PPC training here at the beginning of 2022. Soloed here. 21Oct2022 I passed my checkride here! Thx for the video. Subscribed.

[@Bill4LE]

That's awesome, man! Congrats! Thanks so much for watching and subscribing!

[@Treasureson78RPM]

You are right about the aggressive turn instead of the slow turn. I am practicing multiple engine failures on my flight sim and the aggressive turn definitely gives me the better chance. The key is to not go below minimum maneuvering speed.

[@Bill4LE]

Ya, you gotta get thing turned around! Absolutely consult with your CFI and let them do the demoing in a real environment.

[@868822bkbk]

Wow. Great flying, Brad. In the hands of a pro that 172 can do things that are not in the book. Bill4le is getting great instruction/experience.

[@markhamersly1664]

GREAT VIDEO! I've been saying the same for years. You ARE the PIC, fly the aircraft within the envelope, but use the WHOLE envelope! Hammer

[@dickjohnson4268]

Mighty fine. Scot Perdue and his Bone did a great video on "THE TURN". It's good to see different types of A/C perform this maneuver. Headed south out of Naper Aero is a good example of why we should practice "THE TURN." Unless landing on the tops of residences and buildings are your 'thing.'

[@JohnSmith-en9yb]

Nice, great flying there! One small comment: Stall speed does not increase with bank angle!! It increases with load factor. So if you're not pulling back on the yoke, you can fly a 60+ degree banked turn without worrying about stalling.

[@Bill4LE]

ya loading the wing is what does it for sure and you're LOADED in this maneuver

[@riggitydoo5116]

By the same token, turn rate is related to load factor. No load, no turn.

[@JohnSmith-en9yb]

@@riggitydoo5116 Yes, no load means no turn. But you always have a load factor of at least 1 unless you're accelerating downward. I'm just saying you can fly a 60 degree banked turn without going to a load factor of 2; and you will be turning fast

[@riggitydoo5116]

@@JohnSmith-en9yb less load, slower rate of turn, greater loss of altitude. If your going to hold best glide airspeed, you're going to be under a significant load. Faster and you'll fly like a brick. Slower you'll be under high load and risk falling like a brick.

[@SuperDuperDavo]

Found it and got my fix. Working on my commercial license now and these are some great vids. Earned my sub!

[@Bill4LE]

Awesome, man! Thanks so much! Good luck! Check out the Discord if you haven't TONS of great resources.

[@pilotpeego1820]

A camera in the cockpit showing the instrument panels, and the pilot's actions would have been awesome.

[@Bill4LE]

Ya it would have....only had the one camera at this time though.

[@barryford1482]

It's a while since I flew a 172 but two things come to mind the airspeed at the time of the engine out and the engine on idle produces less drag than it would if the prop is stopped. Regards Barry

[@Bill4LE]

Ya 100%. The prop stopped would absolutely have more drag. Complete failures are also more rare than partial failures. There's A LOT of variables!

[@flybobbie1449]

@@Bill4LE Would it depend though on whether the prop is being driven at idle, or being driven by windmilling with no power? My old instructor was from Battle of Britain a spit pilot. He asked me what i would do in the cruise with engine fire. He said shut engine down, pull to stall to stop prop and help put fire out, don't dive. He had seen many aircraft burn up diving. Never seen that procedure in any books.

[@wunderfuel]

Good video. Demonstrating that this maneuver can be performed has value. Part of a good takeoff procedure should include what happens in event of engine out. That should erase the 2-3 second delay. Practicing this maneuver personally in the sim , should cement the reaction and technique. Practice, practice, practice.

[@Bill4LE]

Absolutely, Ralph!

[@HectorWPadilla]

An instructor that not only shows his student about emergencies but methodically plans to fly from SNA to F70 to show him “ the impossible turn “ being very possible, is an instructor that’s incredibly hard to find and worth every penny. Both of them acknowledged that a 3 sec Cap’n Sully “ Oh butt-poop” pause was needed before starting the turn but the biggest lesson is the necessary up to 60 degree bank required to quickly make the turn. Most instructors refuse to demonstrate this maneuver, and I’m not too sure if it’s because of certain flight school policies, insurance or themselves I’m just wondering what time of day did they perform this maneuver because F70 gets pretty busy.

[@Bill4LE]

He's an amazing instructor. I'm very lucky! I can't remember what time it was but we obviously made sure we were the only ones around. The 50-ft engine out was crazy too.

[@lutherwasoniii6627]

I tried this with a flight instructor and at 600 msl and made the runway, th instructor was surprised and said he not use use to that steep of a turn!!! steep turn nose sown works!!!!!!

[@Bill4LE]

Awesome!

[@emergencylowmaneuvering7350]

All pilots should know "A Possible Turnback" from An Impossible Turnback". I have a formula for small singles Turnback Maneuver. The 777 Turnback Rule. I taught aerobatics and 2 kinds of turnbacks in my 1990's CFI years. 4 kinds of EFATO and partial power too. For heavier singles i have The 999 Turnback Rule for heavier singles. Use this formula i used about a hundred times to teach EFATO Turnbacks when CFI. It works well. I have 3 engine fails on take off on Cherokee 180 and all i landed back with no damages ever. FOR TOTAL ENGINE FAIL Use the 777 EFATO Turnback Rule for light singles. The 999 rule is for heavy singles. The 777 rule can be done even when on preflight or driving to airport. Will I be able to climb over 700 fpm? Yes? Are the winds over 7 knots? Yes? Then mark the altimeter to 700 agl for EFATO turnback. THE 777 TURNBACK RULE NO POWER- FOR LIGHT SINGLES. Between me and my 1990's students we had to do 4 turnbacks due bird strikes, loose engine cowls an engine problems on take off. 4 airplanes saved i know. iGNORANCE of Turnback is not the solution, IGNORANCE is the problem.

[@Vanya80151]

I would normally try to turn in the direction where taxiway is. Landing on a taxiway requires less turning, and at most GA airports taxiways are not busy. You can often even land in the grass between runway and taxiway.

[@Bill4LE]

We actually talked about that but there is terrain on the right side. Part of the pre-takeoff brief or thought process should consider what side is safest. Each airport is different but it's definitely a good consideration!

[@emergencylowmaneuvering7350]

You should turn into the wind at all times. and taxiways are narrower than the runways..

[@juicenot2481]

So he didn't do the impossible turn, he did the improbable turn. The impossible turn is still impossible.

[@outwiththem]

It is impossible under certain altitude or distance from the runway.. Pilots should know when its possible..

[@emergencylowmaneuvering7350]

So it is possible if you are not an ignorant of EFATO Turnbacks..

[@harryfox8028]

It also depends on the aircraft you are flying. In a glider taking off behind a towplane, if the rope breaks or the towplane engine fails and I’m above 200 ft AGL, I will turn back to the runway and have plenty of time and altitude to line it up and land. In a 150 hp Citabria, if the engine fails above 500 ft AGL I have lots of altitude to turn back and probably will need a slip to get it down on the first half of the runway. In the Columbia 350 I fly, nah, I ain’t turning back unless I’m already on crosswind or downwind when the engine fails. It has the same rate of climb in fpm as the Citabria, but it is going a lot faster so the climb-out angle is much shallower and you are much farther away from the airport at 500 ft AGL and 1000 ft AGL unless you are staying in the pattern or departing on a downwind.

[@Bill4LE]

Ya it's always dependent on your specific plane. Which is why it's so important to always brief before takeoff. Not every takeoff will be exactly the conditions even with the same plane.

[@emergencylowmaneuvering7350]

On the A320, the APU and RAT (Wind Turbine) starts automatically if engine fails.. In the meantime, the batteries power the Fly By Wire for about 20 minutes. Not needed on a low time flight like this one, but good to have 2 backups for power to controls just in case. The airplane was the hero in The Miracle On The Hudson crash..

[@Bill4LE]

ya this was definitely a shorter flight lol

[@emergencylowmaneuvering7350]

@@Bill4LE Actually runway 13 at LGA was a shorter distance than the place next to Weehawken where he splashed. He could make LGA if he turned back within 17 seconds. That was proved by Airbus and many afterwards.. They were very lucky that day the ferries were empty and ready due waiting to rush hour to start in 15 minutes..

[@davidhorobin1060]

This works on a long runway but not on a short one. Try turning back on a short runway from 500 feet and you will land before the field.

[@Bill4LE]

Correct. Which is why it's so important to brief before every takeoff. If it's a situation where turning back wouldn't be safe then you WOULDN'T try.

[@legacygk2811]

That maneuver should be taught during PP training and make it an option in case of a engine failure rather than a debate whenever someone tries it.

[@nickgribble5374]

Only if you have a long runway. Try it at most GA airfields in the UK and you'll come a cropper.

[@Bill4LE]

100%

[@Bill4LE]

The decision to make this an option comes during the pre-takeoff briefing before every single takeoff. It's a case-by-case basis

[@matg2002]

The main thing here is that over the opposite threshlod you had already like 1300-1500 ft, aiming for 1800ft AMSL and 500ft AG. There were plenty of runway left and you have been climbing already. It would be much better to simulate short runway by keeping the plane down at ~50kts till the last 600-1000ft of the runway. GA is about using short strips very often :)

[@Bill4LE]

I'm not following you there. But it's important to brief before every takeoff at every airport because it will differ every time depending on a number of factors. If you're operating out of a short field, returning might not be an option.

[@MrDavesbox1]

Altitude and time= decision making success.....we all need to know our airplane....its vibrations, sounds, limitations.....i have 3000 hours in my Grumman and I would, like this guy, make decisions others would not....its not that we are brave or cocky...its that we know our aircraft- this maneuver is not for a short time pilot or even an old pilot in a strange aircraft.....stay safe fellas

[@Bill4LE]

Thanks, Sgt Dave! I appreciate the insight and thank you for watching!

[@grummansteve]

Speaking of Grummans, my AA1B loses 1000' in a 180-degree turn at best glide speed of 89 MPH that happens to coincide with min maneuvering speed (1.404 VS). I would never consider 'the impossible turn' unless I were at 1500' minimum.

[@flybobbie1449]

Saw this done for real, Warrior did 180, they touched down half way down 800m runway, shot off the end, crossed a public road into field. Very lucky.

[@Bill4LE]

Wow! That's scary!

[@flybobbie1449]

@@Bill4LE The instructor would later become airline pilot, but have car accident. He was thrown out of car, and car rolled on him. Not a lucky fellow.

[@flybobbie1449]

I was joining over head the field, as we do UK and watched from above. I told atc they were ok as they climbed out of the aircraft.

[@riggitydoo5116]

Title could be "If I pull the power at just the right time and just the right altitude, with just the right weather, knowing I'm going to do it I can make it back". I guess that would be kind of long though.

[@Bill4LE]

Yes - that is correct. Which is why it's so important to pre-brief before every takeoff. This is obviously (although maybe not that obvious) a demo in a controlled environment.

[@pranabgill1310]

Most runways would have a wall or building at your touchdown point.RUNWAY length is key here....

[@Bill4LE]

I'm not sure what that means, but yes, understanding the length and layout of the airport and surrounding area is key to brief before every takeoff.

[@pranabgill1310]

@@Bill4LE I mean, you could make the "improbable turn" only because you had a n extremely long runway.The reason why its recommended to land straight ahead is because in MOST cases the runways aren't that long.Its not the turn which is difficult. EVERYONE instinctively turns fast.The turn itself is not the problem. Practice the same scenario on a shorter runway.

[@Bill4LE]

@@pranabgill1310 correct. Which is why you need to brief before every takeoff. Each situation will be different. Winds, length, obstructions, etc. We turned to the left due to obstructions on the right side. And practicing a risky maneuver with a CFI on a shorter, even riskier runway is absolutely not the right thing to do.

[@lightotw]

I don't know what your speed was when the simulated engine out happened. The take off seemed to be designed to set up low AOA rather than best climb. How would it have worked if you were doing 75 knots at the time of the engine power cut off? As for Sully turning on the APU in 3 seconds... Maybe that was a natural reaction to no juice on a glass cockpit aircraft? The big birds flip between between APU and main engine generators every flight.

[@Bill4LE]

Vy was held in the climb out.

[@flyjohnnyair]

Also make it easier on a runway of that length. We operate out of a 2200ft runway so a little more distance required to make it back. Thanks for the demo though.

[@Bill4LE]

There are SO many variables to this which makes briefing what you're going to do at what altitudes super important.

[@kirbylee57]

He instantly started his turn back when his engine failed. I have to think it would take most pilots a few seconds to decide what to do, but how many seconds?

[@Bill4LE]

It does indeed. This is the absolutely perfect case scenario. It's more of a demo of the actual maneuver than the entire process. Your engine also won't conveniently stop at 500'. Might be more. Might be less. That's why it's so important to brief what you're going to do and not be surprised when it does happen.

[@kirbylee57]

@@Bill4LE I hope i never have to deal with that situation. If it happens to you, what would you do?

[@Bill4LE]

@@kirbylee57 brief the procedure before every takeoff and do what was briefed and hope for the best.

[@leoarjuncrasto]

My question is when did you start adding your flaps? I hear full flaps around the time u managed to make ur 180. P.S Nice turn!

[@Bill4LE]

He dumped all the flaps at once. So when you hear him say that, it was all once. Thanks!

[@outwiththem]

@@Bill4LE But you should pop all flaps out when you see you are going to be too high, not without any reason for it. They are drag flaps. If suddenly you are short, you are too low to retract them. I teach turnbacks for years..

[@Bill4LE]

@@outwiththem yes, correct. They were not added until needed 👍 you need all the energy you can get.

[@MrDavesbox1]

The real trick is knowing your aircraft ...i mean really really knowing your airplane....at pattern altitude this turn is serious but not difficult....its at 750ft where your balls go cold , and your guardian angel better be on speed dial ....straight ahead sometimes is just not an option...be it housing, solid rocks, ocean, etc......

[@rickkimball6125]

I would add, we also REALLY need to know the airport and surrounding areas. Better know if there's suitable emergency 'off airport' landing space off each runway or not. Otherwise, you burn precious seconds trying to find a landing spot when you could've turned back (maybe). My CFI used to drill that into me and now I always do the 'if engine fails, here's where I'm going' verbally as I'm lining up for takeoff. I hope to never need it but maybe it'll save my life one day.

[@bigbrain4]

The engine quitting at the exact right time is super duper unlikely. When your engine quits, you don't check altimeter first. If you're a hundred feet low, this is again impossible. If it quits a bit later you might be higher but also further away and especially if you've not climbed all the time you again can't make it back. What they're doing is laboratory conditions, so it's still the imposaible turn.

[@Bill4LE]

Yes, which is why this is a 1. A controlled demonstration and 2. Important to brief what you're plan is at ever given altitude on takeoff. Example, "below 500' we're landing straight ahead. Above 500' we're turning back." You're checking those pre-planned altitudes as you get to them. Not when the engine quits. I would recommend working with your CFI to practice a takeoff safety briefing and have a plan in place to make an engine-out on takeoff more like a laboratory and less like a surprise.

[@MengLinWu]

Do you know what the density altitude was?

[@Bill4LE]

Of course. Don't remember what is was now though

[@scottmoseley5122]

At about 3:04 "1800" is called out. What is that?

[@Bill4LE]

That's the altitude. 500' above field elevation.

[@scottmoseley5122]

@@Bill4LE ohhhhhh I get it. Thanx

[@Bill4LE]

@@scottmoseley5122 you're welcome!

[@frankdalla]

And keep in mind that a new 172 now costs a cool half a million bucks....

[@Bill4LE]

lol they do indeed

[@taxidermydavid]

I don't get this... The "impossible turn" has always been described as anything BELOW your demonstrated altitude. At your demonstrated pattern altitude, I've not heard that it is impossible to turn back, actually - I've heard that it's recommended. The more eye opening video would be to explore that altitude for your plane and proficiency at which you cannot make it.

[@Bill4LE]

Well, demonstrating NOT making it would be kind of hard haha. But 500' AGL is not pattern altitude at most airports.

[@goodtalker]

What was this footage shot?

[@Bill4LE]

This was at French Valley Airport in Temecula, CA (F70)

[@goodtalker]

@@Bill4LE Really? We've been there but it looked different....maybe different time of year. Have a nice day from El Centro, NAF.

[@Bill4LE]

@@goodtalker it looks nice and green huh? Good day to you!

[@kalboussizia2384]

You try that on a short field and you are dead. ( look where he leave the ground and look where he touch the ground)

[@Bill4LE]

Exactly. Which is why you need to brief before every takeoff. The turn was demoed at this airport because it's possible at this airport. If it's not possible, you would brief it before taking off and obviously not attempt it in an emergency. Make you sure stop and think about emergency scenarios before every departure.

[@emergencylowmaneuvering7350]

@@Bill4LE Right..

[@ArmaGuyz]

Remember kids "Nice Take off !! Yeah Ive done it a time or 1000" IMPOSSIBLE TURN AT 1800 not 500 announces the altitude at which his engine will fail knows the altitude at which his engine will fail assumes he will in fact make it to 1800 feet and is at an airport with a longer runway. In real life you will not have the luxury of choosing when your engine fails. It will hit and surprise you. Hes got over 1000 flights. Rebranding the Impossible turn to Improbable when in under CONTROLLED CONDITIONS you know when it will fail and know it will be a safe altitude. All the other pilots old and young new and experienced who nose dived and died didn't have the controlled conditions. Remember that guys.

[@Bill4LE]

Yes, this is why it's so important to pre-brief before every takeoff. You need to know what you're going to at every threshold. If you're turn-back altitude has not been met yet, do not attempt.

[@tonymorris7377]

What altitude AGL were you?

[@Bill4LE]

The turn was executed at 500' AGL

[@michaelrivera6989]

45 deg bank at 1.4 Vsi is optimal for minimum altitude loss per angle of turn. I’m so tired of hearing the arguments against doing thi turn. I’ve heard them all. I won’t even argue the point. Learn how to do this at and practice practice practice with an instructor at higher altitudes at first.

[@Bill4LE]

PRACTICE, PRACTICE, PRACTICE is right!

[@feetgoaroundfullflapsC]

You didnt wait the nose down and decision time 3 seconds. Did it right when you Keep the Vglide on the turn. You should not play with the stall speed when low steep turning. In a real emergency you tend to pull more than simulating it and will go wel under Vglide when all power off to the stall speed.. Keep the Vglide Speed keeping the nose down. Lets not do BS Maneuvering.. I teach that maneuver for over a decade. I do them Partial Power and Idle power. With up to 16 knots quartering crosswinds I have done and teach The Question Mark Turn and The Teardrop Turnback kinds. On the runway, with the tailwind, I cut the flaps on the flare, to avoid floating to end of runway..

[@dickjohnson4268]

This important option in flying was handed down to me by my WW-II and Korea instructors. I am glad that you and others are putting an emphasis on stick and rudder skills and ADM. You mentioned unloading the wing in a steep bank.. Mighty fine.

[@feetgoaroundfullflapsC]

@@dickjohnson4268 I put some more info on The Turnbacks To Opposite Runway Maneuver. I started doing them in 1992 in my CFI years..

[@dickjohnson4268]

Excellent. Being aware of the loaded wing consequences is critical to avoiing the four regimes of flight: Stall. SPIN. Crash. And, Burn. Gallows humor. I'm glad that you are weighing in on this old school stuff, and how you teach it. I was taught by Bill Sellars on my CFI. He flew P-39s and P-63s in the Pacific. Lots of low level stuff.

[@feetgoaroundfullflapsC]

@@dickjohnson4268 Another USA training fault is with GRM. They teach GRM at high altitude, and high speed mostly (Mild Maneuvering GRM). I learned GRM in a 1969 tough school. Did at 16 years old a slow Piper Colt, at 500 feet only and with hard winds too (That is Hard GRM). Mild GRM makes mild pilots. Mild Maneuvering pilots crash when things get hard like low GRM, low hard emergencies or low go arounds or hard winds maneuvering needed.

[@dickjohnson4268]

@@feetgoaroundfullflapsC Yup. Fat wing Pipers are still a good teacher. When checking out new Bone pilots, a lot of them are really shy about extreme handling. The aggravated stall (cross controlled and in particular, the V birds) have them looking at the ground, and really gets their attention.

[@dosomereading]

He knew the exact moment the engine was going to fail, at which altitude, he had already planned a return course to the runway, knew the area well, and above all knew that he had power available should he need it. He probably practiced many times and this one was the one in which he didn't have to add power and go around. Anyone can do that. That is a a very possible turn - and bad advice.

[@Bill4LE]

Of course, it was a planned demo of the maneuver need to be executed in the event this happens. All of which is discussed in the video. Demonstrating a maneuver like this, it's critical do it in a controlled environment and manor by something with lots of experience. And not everyone can do this which is why it's so important to pre-brief before every takeoff and have your planned course to return to the runway if you're at the altitude you've briefed will be your attempt-to-return altitude. I highly suggest getting with your CFI to discuss how to pre-brief your departures to be prepared if/when you do loose an engine (partially - which is most engine "failures" or full). That conversation and possible demonstration by your CFI could save your and and your passengers lives one day.

[@210Driver]

I have to say, hearing that stall warning in that steep turn made me cringe

[@GZA036]

stall warning = using max performance

[@ashsmitty2244]

GZA036 Max performance means max lift for those that didn’t understand.

[@bkojic7977]

This is the truth, but not the whole truth, and that makes it dangerous. It is dangerous to show this to people without putting emphasis on the few facts that are all but ignored here. One is that this is not an engine failure, and the other is that this is done on a comfortably long runway. Try doing that with an ACTUAL engine failure, not with an idling engine. With your prop working as an air brake. And then try doing it on a runway that does not extend another one or two thousand feet beyond your take-off point. And then tell people that you did the impossible turn.

[@Bill4LE]

Trying that would make it not a demonstration and just an, as you put it, ACTUAL engine failure which is ACTUALLY dangerous. What's been explained and demonstrated here is the maneuver where a return to the runway would be possible and how aggressive it has to be. The reason this was able to be demonstrated was because it was a longer runway in controlled conditions. Actually shutting the engine off in a single-engine plane for demo/learning reasons is "non-starter"-pun intended. Hopefully you were able to see through the obvious controlled aspects of this demonstration, watched the entire video and listened to comments of a very experienced CFI. Cheers.

[@gmcjetpilot]

A short runway with obsticals all around (sides and approach) you would not make it. Yes you knew it was coming.

[@Bill4LE]

Ya, exactly. That's why it's so important to brief before takeoff what actions will be taken at what altitudes.

[@christheother9088]

@@Bill4LE If you had a spinet piano in the back seat you would never had made it.

[@meaganzastrow3694]

You would use less runway, have less aggressive bank (and less risk of stall/spin) if you dont immediately drop the nose. Climb out in a 172 is 75kts, best glide 65. If you pitch up at failure to achieve glide speed while turning you will have better energy management. The nose passes through the sky like a lazy eight.

[@GZA036]

maintaining Vy climb attitude following the engine failure, the speed will rapidly fall to 65, likely before you even process what's going on

[@meaganzastrow3694]

@@GZA036 if speed bleeds off before you even know what's going on then it would be impossible to continue climb at Vy, yes. But if you recognize what's going on and have excess speed above glide speed why not trade it for altitude?! I fly a navion, climb out at 110 to 120, best glide is 80. my first instinct is to pitch up. Once the engine quits altitude is life. Practicing the same in a 172 pitching up to slow vs banking and diving...every time I pitch up I'm over the runway with altitude to spare. Every time we push the nose over and pull hard we end up short of the runway

[@jareklyszczek986]

@@meaganzastrow3694 So, one needs to know particular plane he/shes flying. You both are right, Mates. Cheers from Poland :)

[@meaganzastrow3694]

@@jareklyszczek986 yes, every plane is different, reaction times of every pilot are different. Learn your plane, practice your plane! No better advice!

[@jareklyszczek986]

@@meaganzastrow3694:) Uhum :) Well, funny, that I was thinking about this "pull up after engine failure matter" few days ago, haha :) Ive considered it as a reasonable thing to do from cruise speed, for sure, for every plane. And for just departure... As we discussed it above. Thank You for Your comment, cheers!

[@licencetoswill]

some low time pilot is going to try this now. that's the danger

[@Bill4LE]

It's great for a low-time pilot to do WITH THEIR INSTRUCTOR....like is suggested in the description.

[@eshelly4577]

It’s irresponsible to suggest this is possible. How many brand new pilots will watch this and think they might make it. You should never even hint on the idea of trying it. I never even consider it . Ever ..

[@Bill4LE]

Please read the disclaimer in the description. This is being demonstrated by an ATP/CFII with 800+ hours in type. It would be irresponsible not to have this discussion with your CFI and have them demonstrate how it's done properly and safely and how to brief it before each takeoff. If you are a pilot and would never consider it, for your safety you should have that conversation with your CFI. It may save your life someday.

[@eshelly4577]

@@Bill4LE I am and I did. He said never consider it.

[@Bill4LE]

@@eshelly4577 then you were given horrible advice and that is a shame. It needs to be an option for engine failure or loss of power on departure. What altitude that it becomes an option is part of the pre-takeoff brief based off of comfort and personal minimums.

[@eshelly4577]

@@Bill4LE I’m not so worried about a high time pilot. I’m thinking about the newly minted pilot who gets it in his head that it might be possible. It may get him to try it. When I got my ticket it was hammered into my head never to try it. And I fortunately never had that happen

[@Bill4LE]

@@eshelly4577 it should be demoed to student pilots. It needs to be an option. Every takeoff should be made with the impression the engine WILL fail. Student, low-time private or high-time private should all have a CFI demo it in a controlled environment before it's made an option.