The infamous WCW match that killed the invasion - Retro Raw review -July 2, 2001: Bryan & Vinny Show

It's here. Bryan, Vinny and Craig review the Booker T vs. Buff Bagwell match that killed the WCW invasion of WWF on the July 2, 2001 Raw from Tacoma, Washington. [November 11, 2020]
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[@ericanderson969]

This was the night Vince fell in love with the idea of setting his talent up to fail. Now it’s his entire business model.

[@manlykscorpa]

He didn't and no longer needed to push new superstars he had no competition. Now he's doing what WCW did back then

[@markfroman738]

@@manlykscorpa Modern day RAW is equally as bad as Nitro was in 2000

[@94champs]

@@markfroman738 Are you serious? Modern RAW is way worse than Nitro 2000.

[@calebdavila2420]

“It was Nick Patrick, he was appropriately boo’d.” I laughed so hard

[@thezachman1]

WWE used to have that relationship with their audience, where they knew to cheer everything and hate any other company. Now they just hate WWE

[@madddoggnogood1491]

They dont hate wwe. If they did they wouldn't have so many defenders

[@ahmeddemha6112]

@@madddoggnogood1491 Half of the most people are trolls.

[@CeemPlay]

Booker bet on himself coming to WWF despite being contracted to AOL and it paid off big time. However from injuring Austin 1st night on the job to this, it was a rocky start.

[@kamfisher1714]

People seem to forget about that, breaking the golden goose back on your first night for being careless. What a shame.

[@realrobrose]

It was that one show where Booker went looking for the Rock "In Hollywood" by trying to act that's definitely when Vince started to like him as a comedy guy.

[@wereallscrewed9714]

Cant blame the others for collecting their paychecks. Probably a lot more than Bookers plus Booker was still young and needed the work

[@CeemPlay]

@@wereallscrewed9714 Whilst DDP was on the other end of the spectrum, old, injured & ready for one last run. However he would be quickly squashed

[@icantthinkofacooname3025]

@@kamfisher1714he still got 70cents on the dollar of what he was owed in one lump sum.

[@omegaman6494]

The match wasn't even that bad it was just really boring, and Buff Bagwell sucked lol

[@bleedorange1998]

The story goes that the match was so bad that Vince reneged on the "WCW as it's own brand" plan. But, come on. -Taking Lance Storm out of the main event with Booker T and replacing him with BUFF -Set it up in such a way that the crowd turns on it hard -Having commentary talk about the McMahons the entire match -Have two top WWE stars run in and just endlessly beat the hell out of WCW's "top star" -The entire beatdown lasts THREE SEGMENTS -Toss WCW's "top star" out the door like fresh garbage And you want to convince me that Vince ever wanted WCW in WWE to be a success?

[@ahmeddemha6112]

Let’s be honest Putting Lance Storm in that match wouldn’t have helped.

[@Vikdeb25502]

@@ahmeddemha6112 atleast the match between Lance v Booker would be a better match

[@1992geop]

DDP would of been the best choice instead of Storm. Not taking away that Storm is a good wrestler.

[@randylynch4330]

Bagwell was in the match cause he was far and away the most over guy in this survey WWE did

[@sabeloking3950]

Wife: "Are you watching WWE?" Me: "No, it's porn. I swear!!!" 😂😂🤣

[@allencollins5666]

She Dump Your Ass.

[@tonym2786]

I just remember Austin and Angle getting cheered for beating them up and throwing them out of the arena.

[@num1Jaysta]

Yep

[@k1productions87]

Because the WWF fans weren't given month after month after month of bullshit finishes the way WCW fans were in its final year of operation. And to see both matches for the Big Gold Belt end in a run-in... naturally all WCW fans who already felt betrayed by Time Warner now felt equally betrayed by the WWF, and the few who WOULD tune in... tuned out.

[@cooljammer00]

Bryan Alvarez shoots on the sun and the Pacific Time Zone

[@NitroNEXT]

Actually, it was Shane Helms that threw the frozen water bottle at Bagwell.

[@paulgarcia9682]

You can blame Shawn Stasiak as well...his tape recording the wrestlers in the lockeroom mixed in with his spoiling that the WCW wrestlers were too be involved in the Shane/Vince WM 17 match got them pushed to the nosebleeds at the pay per view

[@Shmiguelly]

He recorded wrestlers in the locker room? Why?

[@paulgarcia9682]

@@Shmiguelly i should have added it was audio conversations and I think he was just goofing around but it got him in serious trouble

[@LoungeLizard_33]

I've never heard of this before, very interesting

[@paulgarcia9682]

@@LoungeLizard_33 i could be wrong on some of the details but I think this is what happened with him

[@nicktennant4301]

No, you’re right he was fired for tape recording conversations, but I think that was back when he was Meat circa late 99/early 2000. They brought him back in the Invasion and used him as a total jabroni and laughing stock, just to get back at him for the recordings. I think they eventually gave him the name Planet Stasiak or something, you know, to mock the fact he was “crazy”. That good old WWF/E petulance in full force again.

[@WCWThunderRosa]

The entire wrestling industry changed because of this match

[@mikeydoc11]

“You can hear people laughing... it’s sunny”... I picked that up totally wrong 😂

[@trevorfeelgood]

They could've of done the WCW match the next week....in WCW Country!

[@wendigockel]

Sorry for being that person, but... *could've

[@ahmeddemha6112]

Nah we can’t go doing things that make sense let’s book this match in a city that couldn’t care less.

[@k1productions87]

@@ahmeddemha6112 And book it badly

[@Antonicane]

I'm not sure this match killed the Invasion, 'cuz it was at least still salvageable at this point, but it sure did kill WCW as a threat, and absolutely torpedoed Buff Bagwell's career.

[@k1productions87]

I have a feeling the ratings for the WCW segments on that week's RAW and SmackDown are what made the ultimate decision happen. And I would imagine every curious WCW fan who had to endure months of BS run-in finishes on Nitro and PPV saw the same thing happening on WWF television and immediately gave up.

[@Radman1889]

And now, we wait for the milk truck.

[@strictlydiesel8305]

milk truck just arrive

[@TheMt45]

The biggest problem with the invasion is that they insisted on booking it like an "invasion", instead of just a massive influx of talent. I never understood why they all had to be on the same team, fighting for an organization which didn't exist anymore. Or why everyone employed by the WWE suddenly had to be friends now. There was nothing compelling about that. They just have debuted these huge talents periodically over the next year and beyond, and those big characters wouldn't be motivated by fighting for the honor of WCW, they'd be motivated by things pro wrestlers are always motivated by - winning, glory, titles, destroying enemies, settling old scores, etc. Big stars should have big individual goals and big angles to try to get them. Lumping them all together as "WCW" or "WWE" was always going to neuter that star power they had and make everyone less interesting.

[@k1productions87]

They definitely blew their wad too soon. The big WWF vs. WCW showdown should have been saved for the following year's Wrestlemania. By then, most of the Time Warner contracts would have been expired, so the NWO Trio and Ric Flair would now be available, among others. And if they saved it rather than blowing it too soon... we could have gotten Undertaker vs. Sting at X8. Though... Taker vs. Ric Flair was nothing to scoff at, in its own right. But when you see how timeless Rock vs. Hogan was... how much MORE timeless could it have been if the entire card was dream matches? The Main Event could have even been Title for Title, Big Eagle vs. Big Gold

[@CapnAkira]

There was nothing terrible about the match. It was meh. People acting like it was MINUS FIVE STARS is ridiculous.

[@Radman1889]

It was minus 5 star booking, but not minus 5 star match

[@kamfisher1714]

@@Radman1889 How, I thought buff and booker t were underrated. People boast about WCW and it’s “stars” but when they were given the ball they dropped it and failed. No excuses. If that was Rey mysterio vs billy Kidman or even Lance storm in that same position, they would’ve knocked it out the park.

[@CasterShellz]

@@kamfisher1714 that crowd was pro-WWE and this was fresh off the heels of WCW closing shop. They were going to shit on it no matter who it was. Especially if it wasn’t a name like Goldberg or Hulk Hogan.

[@rickhaavisto9023]

Kam Fisher Maybe, but the crowd wouldn’t have cared...

[@HappyHellShow]

It's all well described in Jim Ross' book as Vince changed his mind so quickly after that match.

[@flashgordon8792]

"Are you watching WWE?" "NO ITS PORN I SWEAR!!!"

[@CasterShellz]

the WWE crowd had a superiority complex due to the animosity between the promotions. In fact, it’s very much still there for WWE loyalists and non-WWE wrestling. They didn’t want to see a WCW match especially between two WCW originals like Booker and Buff. The crowd plays a huge role in pro wrestling and they were going to shit on it no matter what.

[@blackjack23able]

You right about that and word is if they would have waited one more week they could have launched it in the south instead of being up north where I think they were..smh, they didn't want it to survive..

[@mikescott8903]

They would have been fine had they done it the VERY next week.

[@WCWThunderRosa]

It would’ve been the same if WCW had won. Both audiences were conditioned to hate the other side

[@ahmeddemha6112]

Well one thing that didn’t likely help was that these people didn’t watch WCW so of course you’re going to get a bunch of fans by being engaged in a match that no one can’t care.

[@mikescott8903]

@@ahmeddemha6112 you couldn't be more wrong. In that era everyone pretty much watched both companies. It's why the ratings were so huge. Lmao 🤣🤣

[@slackerdc]

I was at that match. Not the worst thing I've seen in person. Goldberg vs Lesnar WM XX was the worst match I've seen in person.

[@WillsonT011]

Sorry but that wasn't the worst match of the night you bitches were all just mad because you knew both of them wanted to leave the company #fact

[@michaelpitt57]

Its just the typical sheep/band wagon wrestling mentality,People just agree because it seems the cool thing to do, its actually embarrassing like people dont have their own minds.

[@frankbank0892]

Buff actually got a decent reception coming out

[@madddoggnogood1491]

This match didn't kill anything. Vince had no intention doing the invasion properly... This was just the excuse he needed to bury WCW and feel justified for doing so What killed the invasion was vinces ego, his hatred of WCW and him being too cheap to buy out the AOL contracts of sting, hall , stiener, nash and goldberg during the time of the storyline . This was doomed the moment vince bought wcw. You really think even if Bagwell and book had a great match vince would have made wcw look good....no. Vince sacrificed millions and millions of dollars so he could bust a nut on wcws grave

[@kamfisher1714]

“Vince’s ego” nobody liked any stars from WCW and your precious booker t broke Steve Austin’s back his first night, know what you’re talking about. Your precious WCW stars would rather sit on their couch and get paid rather than entertaining crybaby’s like you.

[@shadowcounter9897]

As he should, the same company who criticized him for years, spoiled the results of his shows. Said he was going to lose and put them out of business, stop it thank god you don’t own a wrestling company or even a business in North America.

[@peterlee6374]

Yes because bischoff wouldn’t have done the same would he?? And why should vince fall into the fateful trap WCW did and pay the over the top over paid contracts of the NWO Steiner Nash Goldberg sting??

[@madddoggnogood1491]

@@kamfisher1714 Nobody liked wcw stars.....yeah ok.

[@kamfisher1714]

@@madddoggnogood1491 You think Undertaker, Steve Austin, Kane, The rock, triple h were fond of wcw talent? Stop it

[@henrikschmidt3964]

Wasn't Mack Daddy one of the kids in Kriss-Kross?

[@penilicious]

Shane is a giant compared to more than 75% of the roster in 2022.

[@thedogwoods5716]

Brian was so ready to get in then about it being sunny out when buff was thrown out. “The audience was laughing” No Brian, they weren’t laughing at it being sunny out

[@devious187]

I really hate the opinion held by many that the Invasion angle would have been so much better if the big name guys Like Hogan, Goldberg, Sting, The Outsiders etc had been available... Sure we would have gotten some dream matches but it still would have been booked with WWE winning soundly, Vince never would have let it go any other way. So if the big name guys had taken the buyout and came in during the Invasion angle most of them would have been booked as poorly as DDP and I think we as fans would have hated it even more.

[@rossomac21]

I do hope they review the "cowboy hat" segment. It is literally the funniest thing I've ever seen in wrestling. No hyperbole or exageration. It just is.

[@jeyfromnowhere]

Constant reminder that the very next week Raw was in fucking ATLANTA. Wait to do the WCW revival in their home fucking base!

[@k1productions87]

And that RAW in Atlanta was actually pretty good too. But by then, the plans had already changed

[@k1productions87]

The question I have is - what were the ratings for the WCW moments? Not just the Booker T vs. Buff Bagwell match, but the Cruiserweight and Heavyweight title matches on Smackdown (shot on) the next night? I refuse to believe the match quality or the crowd reaction made Vince throw his headset off and hit the figurative abort button. But, if the ratings for those segments tanked, that would CERTAINLY create such a result. And, with WCW matches ending just the way they did in the dying days of Nitro, with a run in DQ, and with Nick Patrick f*cking up the finish and calling what was CLEARLY a two-count kickout a three count.... obviously those who were previously WCW fans are going to turn their backs on the very same thing that killed their company previously. If anything, it wasn't the match quality that was the problem,... it was the booking. Both matches for the big gold belt ended in a run-in.

[@KairosObj]

When they could've put said match on a week later in GA..

[@peterlee6374]

But that’s getting a reaction in “wcw country” surely vince had to test the waters in a more pro wwf territory

[@ahmeddemha6112]

@@peterlee6374 WCW tried this when they started moving shows like The Great American Bash and others out of the Carolinas in the late 80’s early 90’s didn’t help them too much.

[@thedogwoods5716]

Idk how it could kill the invasion when the invasion hadn’t started yet

[@thedogwoods5716]

I don’t think this match killed the invasion angle. That angle hadn’t even really started at that point.

[@nickpatrick191]

Hey I was just doing my job dont shit on me for being the ref

[@ChigoIEbere]

I miss Bryan's old studio

[@thedogwoods5716]

What did this have to do with the invasion. That wasn’t even an angle yet

[@xandertheblue]

I still remember the Chinlock Heard Around The World

[@LaMortesAbyss]

Is Vinny turning into Bryan?

[@PierceTravels]

I clicked on the video and it seems to be working fine

[@michaelskoomamacher5652]

Whoever thought Buff Bagwell is a main event stuff isn't up the booking snuff.

[@SigmaImperial]

Booker T versus Bagwell was a proxy match to boo WCW. They were both setup to fail in front of a biased WWE crowd. Sure it wasn't a five star. But there have been far worse matches on WWE via homegrown talent.

[@thesprock5270]

Buff is the stuff

[@robwood1987]

Vinny’s talking out his ass, Shane was like an inch taller than Buff. Shane definitely didn’t “tower over” him. Buff was eye to eye with Austin and slightly taller than Kurt Angle.

[@TommyVinMI]

You can do a 3 minute chin lock of you’re going 15 minutes. But 5 minutes in the main event of raw , no

[@mrparkinson]

Of course the Buff Bagwell match was awful, because Buff was always awful.

[@rickhaavisto9023]

I honestly think, before Buff got hurt, he wasn't awful.

[@Martijn_Steinpatz]

I remember watching Vince McMahon groaning and moaning in his chair and then my parents walked in... Just TRY to explain that one.

[@paulgarcia9682]

Buff Bagwell's greatest match?Judy Bagwell on a forklift

[@ericmacmillan6395]

I was at this show fin to hear them talk about it.

[@7deuc2e38]

Even as a dumb kid I knew Buff was terrible

[@carbonsilkthread]

I remember being there live. The only reason the match is looked as bad is because we (wwf) fans were trained to hate WCW. So why were we giving them tv time with their signs and banners. Crowd shit on the whole thing. WCW on raw in 2001 was the same thing as Batista winning the Rumble in 2014. Didn’t matter who won, they were fucked from the get go.

[@manlykscorpa]

I wish the fans never fucked this up. I really wish to see what would've happened

[@blackjack23able]

" Are u watching WWE ? No It's porn I swear "😂😂😂😂.... Truth is this was all WWE's fault for being so petty & childish when it comes to the way they do business sometimes, WCW could have been around today if they decided to do it right but no even years after the Monday Night Wars we'll bury Sting at Wrestlemania...

[@hayesc0]

Bagwell is 6'1 lol. This is a strange review.

[@TheGhostLad1]

Bag then 6’1 looked small.

[@hayesc0]

@@TheGhostLad1 I don't really agree with that yeah it was mostly big men in the wwe but that's not small lol.

[@TheGhostLad1]

@@hayesc0 no I agree

[@robertlombardo8437]

That BLM sign on the wall has aged... poorly.

[@Darrel-Proof-107]

Was it really because the match was bad or because WWE/F had trained their audience for how many years to absolutely hate and despise WCW? And now all of A sudden the audience is suppose to care? What did they expect?

[@ahmeddemha6112]

They put on a match in a city that WCW never ran.

[@Darrel-Proof-107]

@@ahmeddemha6112 nah they had spring stampede 99 in the Tacoma dome

[@ahmeddemha6112]

@@Darrel-Proof-107 What was the match card? Edit: NVM match card looked pretty weak outside of a couple of matches. All in all though I don’t think running a match with two midcarders most of that audience couldn’t have cared less about was smart.

[@WCWThunderRosa]

Why is Vinny so damn loud?

[@ahmeddemha6112]

First Rodeo?

[@kjdWHU]

Vinny blm.....

[@wateronmars-bz4yc]

Take the sign down. 100 million knees, locked and loaded

[@stevenman013]

What does that mean?

[@ktownshutdown21]

Cope harder.

[@Headbanger142]

Trump lost

[@TheTribalgame]

Your bigotry is showing