The Insane Potential of Ontario International | Los Angeles Airports - Part Three

[@petersumit70]

Dude, run for office! You got my vote.

[@erik_griswold]

Run for Mayor of Ontario please.

[@tomhwm913]

Honestly, the way American politics works makes it somewhat more efficient if someone can have influence on the internet than simply taking a position in office

[@aznhomig]

He won't win in deep-blue California unless if he somehow pretends to be some kind of oppressed minority to fool the voters.

[@J-Bahn]

Please!

[@hugh_kemp0]

I physically checked your page 20 times over the last month hoping this gets posted

[@asianfasian3349]

SAME BRO

[@pilotnflyer]

no it was actually insane

[@rebeccawinter472]

The Musk hole is madness. I don’t think most people are aware of how vastly different levels of people are lane (or tunnel) of cars can carry when compared to a rail line. A subway line can carry 10 to 20 thousand people per hour depending on frequency. A light rail can carry roughly half that. A lane for cars can carry - at best - 500 people per hour. It is an order of magnitude of difference! This is why so much of Southern California has been paved - the inefficiency of car traffic (that’s not even counting all the extra space taken up by the sprawling developments that cars permit).

[@randomscb-40charger78]

It's not just that, but if I recall, when it first launched, it wasn't even autonomous...which is baffling since most of the current system is grade- separated except for at-grade stops I think? Hell, even your average APM is more advanced than this crap.

[@ChrisJones-gx7fc]

@@randomscb-40charger78 the latest version being done by SBCTA and a few other public entity players is an autonomous vehicle on-demand system, similar to one at London's Heathrow Airport. If Ontario remains a relatively small airport, where such a system would meet projected demand, it could make sense, but if Ontario is anticipating the huge growth in passenger numbers that it is, then such a low capacity system would not make sense. If Ontario really is projected to become the second busiest airport in SoCal, it needs a high capacity transit option(s), whether that be an APM from one of the Metrolink SB Line stations (I'd vote Rancho Cucamonga primarily because of Brightline West), a potential LA Metro A Line extension, though with how far that line already is and the issues it's having now with service frequency and scheduling I'm not sure that'd be the best route forward, or both. In the short term increased shuttle service and BRT could suffice, but some type of a rail option, whether an individual system or connected into one or more of the existing ones, absolutely should be in the cards and pursued. LAX's transit is an APM connected to two Metro light rail lines, both of which require a transfer to reach downtown LA, and one of them a second transfer to reach Union Station, making the FlyAway bus still the most convenient as well as fastest option to get between Union Station and LAX. Most likely once the APM opens, FlyAway will terminate at one of its stations, probably Metro Center alongside other buses and Metro light rail. It'd be kinda sad for LAX to have less transit connectivity than Ontario. I'm not sure something as grandiose as what was ultimately envisioned here is feasible, financially or politically, but there certainly could be something done that's a fair enough compromise between this and nothing. I'm a bit skeptical of CAHSR's Phase 2 to San Diego prospects, given their financial struggles now with just Phase 1 between SF and LA and the skepticism that alone may never get done, at least not with the current funding situation. I'm an avid supporter of CAHSR and firmly believe it will reach SF and LA, and by the 2040s for sure if not sooner, but a lot will need to go right for it for that to happen. Reaching Sacramento by 2050 is also very much within the realm of feasibility, as is San Diego via the IE but maybe less so, at least not until the 2060s.

[@erik_griswold]

The Southern Californian was conceived in a car, birthed in a car, lost their virginity in a car and knows nothing, through social engineering, about transportation without using a car.

[@stickynorth]

The tunnel itself is fine. It's all the shitty cars inside that's the problem. Ironically these tunnels at 12' are JUUUUUUUUST large enough to squeeze a London deep level tube train down which would make sense if you could pair existing rail subways with cheap tunnelling.. But alas...

[@stickynorth]

The narrowest sections of the London Underground tubes have an interior diameter of 11' 6" which is 6" narrower than the standard sized Musk tunnel... Too bad he's so anti-train because it would be a win--win solution for all if we had automated subways running down these tunnels everywhere... We'd never have traffic jams again!

[@Ariolander]

If the Angels get to be a Los Angeles team in Anaheim then Ontario can definitely be a LA airport. Plus look how many major metro airports are actually more than an hour outside of town.

[@Geotpf]

No. Nonono. No. We are not doing a Los Angeles Airport at Ontario and Anaheim and Desert Center. It's going to be called Ontario and just Ontario and everybody will just have to live with that. A lot of people spent a lot of effort to get it away from Los Angeles-it is not going back.

[@PTRRanger951]

Ontario WAS an LA airport and was owned by them. Not any more.

[@andrew2473]

I mean Santa Ana does just fine without being called LA anything.

[@ec1628]

The Angel’s name and his proposed name is plain ridiculous. LaGuardia does just fine without a geographic name. How about Southern California International?

[@PTRRanger951]

@@ec1628probably won’t use Southern California since an airport already has that in the name.

[@elozyman]

Its my sleepover and I get to choose the movie!!!

[@itsweichao]

💀

[@kalon2414]

Babe wake up, a Nandert video just dropped

[@alvaroprieto2092]

I wish I had a babe 😔

[@shlubbers1778]

This comment is such a staple for the nandert comments section

[@erik_griswold]

@@shlubbers1778Also the @milesintransit comment section.

[@radudeATL]

Me. I’m babe.

[@kalon2414]

@@radudeATL did you wake up, Babe?

[@kiernansfault48]

I had a moment in the middle of watching this one where I realized just how much work goes into each of these videos. Thanks for everything you do. These videos are such a great resource.

[@plattypus42]

RE: an infill station at UC Riverside, it was originally planned with the Perris Valley Line. It was supposed to be along Watkins, and I fought for it hard, but a bunch of people who bought houses next to train tracks didn't want to listen to trains. It's obvious, but you're gonna have to fight a very angry hornet's nest called Friends of the Hills.

[@Geotpf]

Yeah, now there is a station with UCR in the name that is NOWHERE near UCR and at one point didn't even have a bus connection to it (I think they added it back recently). Watkins wasn't perfect. There would be no room for parking and probably at least a house or two would have had to demolished. There would still need to be a shuttle bus to UCR because even though it would literally be across the street from campus property, it's the very edge of campus with nothing except the maintenance yard and some dorms within easy walking distance. But it would beat what we ended up with.

[@marisap09]

Classic problem that will impede any of these transit plans unless we get some streamlining and governance fixes from the CA state government.

[@vistaxp2600]

i’m mad that youtube didn’t put this in my regular feed

[@tolumnia]

I watch videos both from my regular feed and my subscription feed

[@all1357]

“And you’re not about to tell me that fucking Luton or Stansted are in London” 😂😂😂

[@stickynorth]

ish................ And it's a Mighty Big ISH...

[@Noisy_Cricket]

I looove flying into Ontario over LAX! It's SO much easier!!!

[@autobreza7131]

Los Angeles INLAND Airport

[@shepardbook]

If Oakland can change its name to San Francisco Bay Area…I guess Los Angeles Inland would work too.

[@h3living]

That's the name I was thinking too!!

[@JamesLamb-tvjames]

I really like this. Of course, now we're two letters into a third word (INternational vs INland) but yes, I really like this. Way better than Los Angeles East Airport. or Los Angeles Imperial Airport.

[@autobreza7131]

I’ve been trying to create an easy and memorable acronym. Still trying…

[@RyanKusuma]

Los Angeles Inland Empire International

[@johnmaster3748]

While Nandert's focus is obviously how the airport's potential growth will impact regional transit, I am equally fascinated by how ONT's growth might influence airline traffic. Probably, these are closely connected! Passenger growth drives the need for better transit connections, and better transit spurs the addition of more flights. Could Ontario ever become to LA what Newark EWR is to NY or BWI is for DC? E.g., a busy airport with strong domestic and international options. As Nandert demonstrated, it has the long runways already and also lacks the restrictions faced by the other SoCal candidate air fields. Arguably, SNA and BUR already fill the niche in short-haul domestic service that LaGuardia plays for the New York area and DCA plays for DC. Yet, LA lacks a second airport with substantial long-haul connections, both domestic and international. That is the role ONT should aspire to. I think this vision is feasible for three reasons. First, the three legacy U.S. airlines already use LAX as a hub/crew base. If any one of them chose to "corner the regional market" by upping the ante at a second SoCal airport, they already have local staffing to jumpstart expansion. Such a move by one of United/American/Delta might also spur at least one of their alliance partners to bring international routes with heavy aircraft to the Inland Empire. Second, flights to/from Europe (or the eastern U.S.) would save up to 20-30 minutes of flight time by using ONT instead. That may seem insignficant for a 10 hour flight, but fuel is the airlines' biggest cost. Even that small savings on a daily basis, year after year, could make expanded service to ONT a good investment. Third, we know from the first video in this series that LAX is the #1 airport in the world for origin/destination travel. Since the airlines don't primarily rely on passengers changing planes, shifting some traffic east would have minimal impact on the business model for sucess at LAX. It would be more about whether passengers want to go there. Currently, the biggest drawback to ONT attracting flights from farther away is that many non-local travelers, especially the business fliers, want to head downtown. For them, LAX will be closer to their destination. (It's probably a wash for those tourist travelers bound for Disneyland.) The intermodal tansit center Nandert envisioned mitigates the transfer-time issue with faster service not only to DTLA but to the broader LA basin than comparably available from LAX. I don't know how much growth in passenger numbers would need to occur for ONT to start attracting investment from both transit planners _and_ airlines, but I suspect there's some sweet spot (15 million? 20? 30?) where both the long-haul flights and the investment in regional transit converge to create a virtuous cycle that elevates ONT into just such an airport powerhouse. Not likely in this decade. But, during the '30s? One can see a pathway! Now, if we can just get the transit portion moving....

[@stickynorth]

All the pieces are there for Ontario to flourish including the large reserve land for new terminals, on a future HSR line, near Metrolink and in a part of the region that is the fastest growing... Makes sense to me! It does need an Avelo, Spirit or Southwest or really anchor the traffic though... Everyone else seems to have a dominant player but Ontario...

[@flarp671]

I treat ONT as a family secret to avoid the long lines, shitty terminal design, and nightmarish parking/drop-off/pickup of literally every other airport in SoCal. The less people know about ONT the better.

[@jdcaldwell5088]

Inland empire peoples do not CARE for your useless opinion 😊

[@rebeccawinter472]

38:05 I like how you mention not needing to relocate a station here if future changes mean that this line will be disused. What the region needs is a concrete long range plan that they’ll stick to and see through. This includes land acquisition, ensuring that rights of way are protected (e.g. on interstates, power corridors), and not changing direction when there is a change in government - which is what happens literally everywhere. LA is doing a lot & doing some of it right too; but it’s got so much damage to undo that it’s going to take a century of effort and planning to reshape it into a sustainable city for the future. Great vid as always. 😊

[@PASH3227]

I agree with you but politics still get in the way. LA Metro bought a freight right of way in the South Bay decades ago and now the nimbys living along are mad about the future C/K Line extension in Torrance that will use that very right of way. LA Metro just voted to continue to use the right of way but the NIMBYs are threatening a lawsuit.

[@eric77lv]

Hour long video LETS GOOOOOOOO

[@MJGG]

I appreciate all of your videos. As a Transit Civil Engineer your videos are amazing and really help educate the public, support future expansion funding, and make my day. Thank you for all your hard work.

[@Killersanchez256]

Please tell me city/county planners have come to you about your plans youve created?

[@johnmaster3748]

8:00: To make the point even stronger,I would have counted _four_ east-west freeways (that are always slammed) connecting the LA area to the Inland Empire. I-210/CA-210 (Pasadena Freeway/Foothill Freeway), I-10 (San Bernardino Freeway), CA-60 (Pomona Freeway/Moreno Valley Freeway), and CA-91 (Riverside Freeway). I think 91 was the one not shown. That one "originates" in Torrance on the coast (south of LAX) and then connects southern LA _county_ to both Orange County and the Inland Empire. Despite missing LA proper, this freeway has occasionally earned the distinction "busiest" highway in the U.S., so absolutely merits inclusion. It intersects I-15 in Corona, at a point only 10 minutes or so (at freeway speed) from the airport. If one originates in Riverside and drives direct to LAX (75-ish minutes), CA-91 is most of the route. Missing that drive on the 91 alone makes ONT the more convenient airport. Similarly, anyone leaving OC bound for ONT will be on CA-91. Also worth pointing out that I-15 connects (transects) all four of these east-west freeway corridors basically at ONT. With a buffer of a few city blocks, the airport is bounded by freeways on three sides. Sandwiched between I-10 (north) and CA-60 (south), I-15 skirts its eastern boundaries. That north-south corridor on I-15 from CA-210 to CA-91 takes about 20 minutes because the "vertical" spacing between all four E-W freeways is quite narrow at that point. One could within about 20 minutes exit I-210 to SB I-15, then pass the 10, ONT, and the 60, before the merge onto the 91. That's a lot of E-W lanes!

[@freddyrivera]

I think for locals, there's a sense of pride in the name ONTARIO... not to mention the $$$ spent to re-brand ONT away from LA. That was a whole thing a while back. Keep up the great and diligent work!

[@pacificostudios]

A direct regional rail link from LAUS to ONT would be fantastic for ONT's growth and for the entire L.A. Metro area. Getting from LAX to DTLA is never going to be easy and the environmental impacts of LAX are terrible.

[@maxjohkna]

here we go!!

[@jackyyuen3763]

Wow amazing! Best of the series ! Way to end it with a bang 🎉

[@johnmaster3748]

I believe "Terminal 1" counts as the old original (half-outdoor) terminal, now disused except for those two international arrival-only gates. (Those gates were a "modern" extension to the original building because they had jetways. The old ONT was mostly air stairs.) So any future terminals built east of T4 would presumably continue the sequential numbering, becoming T5 or T6. In addition, if they added a fourth terminal, it as likely they would redevelop T1 [raze, then build new] as build east of T4. While we are contemplating westward extensions of your hypothetical APM toward the actual convention center, at least two other possible destinations merit consideration. A cluster of hotels sit along Vineyard Ave, which was the airport entrance before T2 and T4 opened. The hypothetical route toward the convention center may as well see if it can serve several with an intermediate stop. More recently, the city added a 12,000 seat arena. I am thinking it's not that much farther. Could be wrong.

[@EdgarEsc1972]

Toyota Arena is about 2 miles NE of the airport, closer to Ontario Mills mall than the Convention Center (which is almost adjacent to the airport). The arena and mall would already be served by BRT to the airport intermodal center (as proposed by nandert). Not sure of the utility of connecting them all together.

[@johnmaster3748]

@@EdgarEsc1972 Fair enough.

[@stickynorth]

I propose they fast track the Los Angeles Union-Rancho Cucamunga California HSR project to ASAP because that would enable both HSR to Los Angeles-Ontario International Airport and L.A. Union Station to be connected to Las Vegas. And since the corridor is basically just getting electrified and double-tracked with grade separation without any crazy long or expensive tunnel sections lord knows SOME form of government could find the cash for it, especially if it was tied in with Metrolink electrification the same way the Caltrain line between San Francisco and San Jose is a joint effort that benefits both rail operators...

[@PASH3227]

Beefing up San Bernardino service for eventual HSR service would be GREAT! CAHSR is so inefficient as is that it'll be a miracle when the IOS (from Bakersfield to Merced) opens!

[@stickynorth]

@@PASH3227 Sadly I agree! And yet the Central Valley, Palmdale/Lancaster and I.E. regions are the fastest growing in the state (for obvious housing cost/sprawl space reasons) so maybe it will be less about connecting them to SF and LA and more with themselves soon enough... Or maybe connecting these cheaper cities with jobs in LA or the Bay a few times a week commuting via HSR or beefed up regional rail... Even with its flaws I hope most of the project can be salvaged... It's good on paper, just really really messy in reality...

[@GrantDolanMusic]

As someone who has always lived close to Ont, it is an amazing and easy airport. I have always been under the impression that 4 terminals was always them plan since the terminals are named 2 and 4 right now with the between them like you suggested and one being where the original terminals were.

[@storrbadger3371]

My semi-serious ridiculously expensive transit proposal for Ontario Airport: Extend the D line at grade along the El Monte Busway, tunneled below Garvey Ave, in the median of I-10 (with REM style enclosed stations w/ platform screen doors to control noise), and finally elevated above the UP Alhambra Subdivision until it reaches the airport.

[@Kresimir_]

hell yeah i know what i'm doing instead of working today

[@danmiller7079]

Back in the ‘70s, there was an Air National Guard detachment stationed at ONT. We used to go to the east end of the runway (you could do that back then) and watch the ANG conduct flight operations at night. The ANG that was stationed there flew F-4 Phamtoms and they were fun watch take off. That engine sound and the after burners were just “bitchin” to watch. Gave me chills every time. Ahh, memories!

[@kevinp8108]

I live less than 9 miles south of Ontario International Airport, and it has been a Godsent for me! I can't remember the last time I flew out of Los Angeles International Airport, and I hope to keep it that way! I normally fly domestically out of Ontario to locations such as Denver, Hawaii, Florida, and Las Vegas, however, in 2018, China Airlines started a daily flight to Asia out of Ontario! This was the icing on the cake!! Before China Airlines made its presence in Ontario, I had to make that dreaded 1.5 hours to 2 hours car ride from the Ontario area to LAX to fly to Asia. Now, flying to Asia is like a car ride to the shopping mall! In fact, the Ontario Mills Mall is actually farther than my drive to Ontario Airport. When I was flying out of LAX, I had to burden my family members or friends for a ride to LAX but now, since Ontario Airport is literally down the street, I can affordably take an Uber to Ontario Airport to fly international destinations. OMG, flying back from Asia is awesome because China Airlines arrives alone and you get through customs and immigration so quickly! I have mixed emotions because I want to keep this hidden gem all to myself but I want this great airport to grow to meet its full potential!

[@djpetesake]

Yay more Riverside line slander! I'm imagining the tunnel to Mt SAC college having an elevator that drops like 10 stories to reach the platform from their new transit center.

[@RoboJules]

I would kill to do connecting flights to Central and South America through Ontario Airport rather than LAX. Every single time I'm forced to go through that horrendous, exhaust filled mess, I die a little inside. Every time I've transferred through LAX, I've had a truly awful experience, especially when spending an 90 minutes to go through customs. It's so bad that I specifically try to fly through DFW or MIA whenever I go to Peru or Costa Rica, as they actually function as indented.

[@joekelly7505]

It's a great airport. I used to fly to and from my home in the San Gabriel valley to school on the east coast. I must've flown out of ONT several dozens of times. I went back there a couple of years ago and was surprised at the new facilities. I even went back and drove by the OLD terminal, with its outdoor baggage claims. I remember stepping off the airplane and the first thing was the powerful stink of the dairy farms and stock yards south of the airport. Always made me laugh: am I in Texas or California? It was also awesome to leave the east coast with its 20º F temperatures and arrive to a warm and sunny 70º F with green trees all around.

[@cameron.t]

I've flown out of ONT for maybe 10-15% of my flights. If it ever grows, I'll be happy for it. You've definitely made the most comprehensive video reflecting dreams of the Inland Empire---welcome to the dream. You can fly in anytime you like, but you can never leave!

[@nerdynerdynoob3733]

5:52 ‘’London’’ Oxford airport as well! Great video btw

[@stickynorth]

Even Lydd tried it on for a while and it's waaaaaaay closer to Calais than London too!

[@stickynorth]

Sorry it's now London ASHFORD Airport... Still just not that far from Calais though... ;-)

[@cowboycrook987]

i have lived in rancho cucamonga all my life and i am BEGGING for a crumb of public transit and walkable communities. when i used to live in europe and on my vacations in asia, i cry everytime i can walk out the door and be on some form of public transit. here, i have to drive an hour in any direction to get to somewhere i like being. with that said i am excited for the immense potential for the inland empire. it's a shitty place to be, for now, but its MY shitty place. i just dont wanna grow old and still have to rely on a car to get myself around, if thats the case then i'm moving elsewhere for quality of life.

[@PASH3227]

While most of this video is speculation SCORE will make Metrolink faster and the high speed rail is actually happening!

[@danielvanhorne1973]

This video is amazing, thank you for creating! Watched all the way though.

[@AustinKelly94]

Your presentation style just kills as always

[@kirkrotger9208]

The funny thing is, given the extra time it takes the train to get from Upland to Rancho, the A Line extension would take exactly the same net amount of time as the shuttle.

[@PASH3227]

I'm not sure about an A Line Extension. The line is slow and plagued by delays already (especially slow in Long Beach, Washington and Flower, and Highland Park is TERRIBLE). I would love to see San Bernardino build a separate line from Montclair to Ontario International but to the same standards as the A Line to provide local and express service. Once the A Line is significantly improved, then the 2 lines can merge into a HUGE light rail line from Long Beach to Ontario. LA Metro and OmniTrans need to figure out how to reduce redundancies once the A Line is extended to Montclair. I expect ridership at the Pomona, and Claremont Stations to fall once they're served by the A Line. If the A Line is extended to Ontario International, boardings at Montclair and Upland would fall too. There's no reason to take a more expensive, less frequent service unless the time savings are significant.

[@kirkrotger9208]

@PASH3227 Light rail, as implemented, is really the wrong mode for LA in general. The city is too sprawling to have so much mixed traffic and grade crossings. I think an RER style network or automated light metro is the best option. Possibly both with two overlapping networks.

[@h3living]

Yup!!! Let's hope Sepulveda selects the proposed Vancouver skytrain like technology and we will have that option built in for future considerations. @@kirkrotger9208

[@goldengep]

6:01 Except OAK is now San Francisco Bay Oakland International Airport

[@pcongre]

34:50 I don't get it, why not have the Las Vegas and San Diego HSR lines branch off to the East of ONT instead? (In other words -> I get why they would want Rancho Cucamonga as a terminal in a 1st phase, but why not disconnect it in a 2nd phase? That way Ontario stn would eventually take a ~similar role to that of e g the Amsterdam airport stn)

[@YveDahl]

from the ie, would hate los angeles imperial airport lol, but i appreciate the effort. Ontario definitely needs an update to its terminals though as they’re stuck in 2003.

[@johnmaster3748]

Most airports in the United States are stuck in the 1970s. Some in the '50s. For airport infrastructure in this country, those two "new" terminals remain problem-free. (It was unlucky for them that they were designed right before 2001 changed the way designers designed airports.)

[@michaelkelly8212]

​@@johnmaster3748problem free? My horn is getting worn out from all the idiots who nearly hit me. You can't mix departures with arrivals! It doesn't work.

[@johnmaster3748]

@@michaelkelly8212 You are talking about the streetscape? Not the building?

[@zekeonstormpeak4186]

The key to an airports success, is its ability to connect passengers to a wide array of flights, while attracting local passengers to the the array of numerous flights to nonstop destinations. If you have a large network of incoming flights, with connections to that destination, while supporting the local people. This is why huge hubs like ATL, DFW, DEN, ORD, JFK, LAX, work .

[@BeerBarbecueDad]

Please do an update in regards to OC Public Transport :((

[@carterpaulson2257]

Someone needs to put this man on the CAHSR board

[@SebsAviation]

Awesome video! As the main spotter for that airport, I am really glad it's starting to get notice.

[@popgunandy]

I literally grew up at ONT from the 70s to 90s. My dad was part of the original joint police/fire operation controlled by LAX. I used to travel regularly from ONT to wherever I needed to go (I grew up in Ontario and went to college at Redlands) using its original tiny terminal on the west end. I now live in Sacramento and it's really unfortunate that the terrible traffic in SoCal makes Long Beach and Burbank my current choices. Burbank actually provides a compelling example of what's possible, almost by accident. I land at the airport, walk across the street, grab a 20-minute train for about $7, and I'm in downtown LA's central rain terminal. Contrary to popular belief, I can literally get all over LA without car using this strategy. ONT is still suffering from the underutilization and mistreatment under its LAX ownership, and the parochial disrespect of the Inland Empire as a vast wasteland east of LA. Its potential has also been exacerbated by the foolish decision (in my opinion) of California's HSR project to emphasize a connection between LA and San Francisco, something nobody needs, rather than Las Vegas, San Diego, LA and Sacramento, the areas with the most projected need for housing and economic activity involving physical goods. Your video really demonstrates something I was corrected on early in my government career - letting reason and logic creep into your decision making. A funny example of this is the way ONT's second runway was built - LAX said no, and the ONT folks simply ignored them and built it guerrilla-style without any permission. I have no idea how they pulled it off but my dad was quite proud...he and fellow firefighters were out there pouring concrete themselves, LOL.

[@jonny12345anahi]

Wow! I was not expecting all this information, it was entertaining and informative and your explanation were easy to follow, thank you for making such a great video 👍

[@delroyl427]

Whatever your proposal also make LAX easier to access for people in SGV&IE

[@stopurcryin425]

Never what I would have thought Ontario airport would behere

[@Makkle4000]

ONT My Beloved, been using it for most of my travels since I was born

[@lars7935]

I don't know how much traffic the lines get but consider that the upper practical limit for intercity/hsr type service (eg 2 narrow doors per 25m car and heavy luggage) is 8 trains per hour per platform track. And that is already stretching it. So if both regional and hsr tracks are to be used to capacity 2 platform tracks per direction each will be necessary at least. With provisions for those the station should be planned for 8 heavy rail tracks in addition to LRT, BRT and rideshare/taxi.

[@tim1724]

Yes, build the A Line extension! And ugh, SB County needs to wake up and realize how ridiculously stupid the musk tunnels are. When ONT builds new terminals they should definitely look at renumbering them. Maybe switch to letters to avoid confusion between new/old numbers. I'm sure whatever they come up with will be less confusing than LAX's renumbering plan.

[@ramongamez]

39:48 The heavy rail junction you mention here is actually already mostly built out, in the same way the C/K junction near LAX was when the C Line was originally built. Not that it would make an extension all the way to Mt. SAC make any more sense but something to keep in mind for any future planning.

[@Peterrayism]

I would totally vote for LA Imperial airport. People always get confused when I say I'm flying to Ontario, CA. They assume Ontario, Canada.

[@GameDr18]

ONT has the potential, we must get them the infrastructure they need

[@stickynorth]

All airports within the region should nay MUST start with Los Angeles-__________ just like London. As soon as you have more than one airport in a city with commercial flights it should be mandatory to put the City/Region name in front... I.e. Los Angeles-Palmdale, Los Angeles-Burbank, Los Angeles-Long Beach, Los Angeles-Van Nuys, Los Angeles-Ontario, Los Angeles-Santa Ana, Los Angeles-Victorville, etc. And yes I do agree with the video's main point. With 2 long runways and 24-hour operation all within the actual L.A. metro region this airport has the most potential to act as a second major hub for the region with the most capacity potential especially when you break it down by that graph and where is the closest airport to where people live. Especially when you look at population growth trends and the Inland Empire is still where in California people are streaming into ironically along with the Imperial and Central Valley's... It's the expensive coastal cities that are bleeding residents and are going through an economic hollow out largely due to housing costs and availability...

[@RandomStuff-zw7uh]

Fun fact: a few years ago, someone tried to book a business trip for me from Toronto to San Fransisco, but booked Ontario (ONT) to SF instead. I 100% agree with the name change.

[@kmm129]

Ontario California has a reputation and history worth keeping. ONT all the way.

[@juanmontull8550]

Btw I just discovered you with this video and I already love your work✌

[@shubdotclub]

6:07 - Oakland airport renamed itself to San Francisco Bay Area Oakland Airport recently for the same reasons

[@randomscb-40charger78]

Yeah, there was a huge hissy fit over that.

[@MikeLovato]

Great video! And I’m one of those IE residents who doesn’t want it renamed, haha. But I’d vouch for rerouting the Riverside line up Haven (with the caveat that it would need greatly increased frequencies). And I’d land a multimodal facility actually at the northwest corner of Airport and Haven. And an Automated People Mover that takes a loop route west along Airport and then down and back East along the terminals and rental car facility. And then land the APM maintenance facility just east of Haven. For the other connections - A Line extension to that multimodal facility to hit the traffic from San Gabriel Valley. Arrow extension also to that facility to hit the traffic from the east. And honestly I’d let the Arrow extension be the shuttle (along with BRT) from the Rancho Brightline station and not try and get that all the way connected to ONT. There’s of course the issue of connecting Brightline to Union Station but increased frequencies on Metrolink hit that some or perhaps a full future electrified extension as I think you mentioned (I watched the video yesterday so I’m a little fuzzy.).

[@AaronTheHarris]

Orange county next!

[@johnmaster3748]

He covered SNA in the second video (about a month ago).

[@AaronTheHarris]

@@johnmaster3748 Referring to Orange County transit proposals, not the airport. He alluded he had a longer video he was going to make about OC (I'm sure with no shortage of OC digs).

[@TheRandCrews]

i was curious about his OC County streetcar grid plans

[@owenstockwood5040]

Alternate idea for use in an emergency (such as them actually building the off brand Teala tunnels). Just take those tunnels, put 4 foot guage tracks in them, and buy copies of the new Glasgow Subway trains, which run in tunnels of a similar size.

[@Geotpf]

1. It will remain Ontario and just Ontario. The locals just spent a lot of effort de-Los Angelesifying it and they ain't going to undo such. 2. I think having the A Line and ARROW meet in Rancho and then have both of them continue to Ontario Airport on the same right of way makes sense. Maybe electricity the ARROW side eventually and have Brightline use those tracks to eventually connect to Ontario for a one seat ride. More duplicated service, but this way everything meets at Rancho and you could transfer from both the A Line and the ARROW to Brightline at Rancho-and transfer from A Line to ARROW without needing to transfer to Metrolink or a bus in between.

[@alexisdespland4939]

the law that build the airport people mover should include future replacement with though trains to all terminals.

[@inksuckeye1]

Just flew out of Ontario last week and actually really like how small and not packed it was compared to my regular San Diego Airport

[@rymotion1]

As a resident and frequent flyer for ONT. the one thing that baffles me is that for an international airport there is only like two restrooms with one stall for the men it would be nice to not be waiting in a queue after hours of waiting

[@alexanderboulton2123]

You could just call it the Pomona Valley Airport. Pomona sounds LA enough. Valley really adds that extra little bit of Cali to it, and helps distinguish it from Panama. Plus it sticks with the small-city theme, and you don't have to mix it up with some other bum nowhere airport like Imperial County.

[@anthonychen827]

Great video, but I'm not entirely sure that the passenger traffic is there for ONT, in particular, front cabin/business flyers. In particular, I think that ONT has a lot of potential if they could become the Stansted type operation where the LCC/ULCCs are concentrated. Allegiant, Avelo, Breeze, Frontier, and Spirit should be able to find good success at ONT and I'm surprised that Allegiant and Spirit don't fly there already. Internationally, they should be courting French Bee, Norse Atlantic, Viva Aerobus, and Zipair. Certainly the attractiveness for cost sensitive flyers is improved by more transit options as well.

[@johnmaster3748]

Orange County has long been derided as an urban area without a center, without a downtown. But nowadays, there are a few concantenations of high-rise offices, apartments, and hotels--and these are clustered within a few miles of SNA (near the junction of 405/55). These high rises comprise the closest thing OC has to an urban center. I'm not sure how much of that was there 20 years ago. Surely, OC had enough residential wealth to attract those services without the airport, but I think it likely that this pseudo-central business district emerged where it did because of proximity to the airport. SNA certainly does not lack for front-cabin ticket buyers, which is probably why it has the second-highest passenger count of the five airports. Your point argues that ONT will be unable to drive the kind of passenger traffic that will fuel the airline growth necessary to fuel investment in regional transit. But the reverse is also true. With fast and regular service to DTLA, ONT can mitigate some of the reasons those front cabin passengers prefer LAX. Moreover, the presence of the airport makes that immediate location the most likely area in the whole IE for a psuedo-central business district to sprout up. One that those front-cabin passengers want to reach. It's hard to envision that now, in part because the IE lacks the concentrated wealth of Orange County. But it's also hard to envision the HSR actually being finished, either. The low-cost carriers you mention may make a good strategy for the near-term. But ONT should not cede to LAX the mainline carriers either. In time, I suspect the IE's appeal for those front cabin dollars will increase. How much time? Not this decade for sure!

[@jdcaldwell5088]

Oh it’s THERE!!!!!!!

[@PASH3227]

@@johnmaster3748 The Inland Empire should lean into Ontario International Airport, since it's a HUGE employer for both passenger and freight planes. Combined with the High Speed Rail service coming, Ontario and Rancho Cucamonga WILL be the IE's central business district, like how Irvine is becoming OC's.

[@juanmontull8550]

I only knew Ontario in Canada because I'm from Spain, then I discovered this airport in Maps when I was watching Rancho Cucamonga HSR station location and it was quite funny and shocking, you all can hate me now, sorry😅 That said, I think that you're right at everything from the name change to the station interchange👌

[@j.r.riggsii6456]

I have used the visitor pass to greet family at the gate. It was super easy to get and very quick. FYI it is also available at Sea-Tac

[@natesirovatka2256]

Dang, I'm just imagining the size of that rail station... it might end up as one of the biggest West of Chicago by Phase 4 if nothing else gets built out West.

[@jairreeves7322]

I freaking love your videos bro!

[@DanielSchramm]

Having "LA" in the IATA airport code would make the airport name much more intuitive for people not from Los Angeles. "LAT" is available ("LAO" and "LAN" are not) and would work as a summary of "Los Angeles Ontario International Airport".

[@reggiemontoya4961]

Open up a donation system bro been following for YEARS

[@isaacarriaga8546]

The problem with ontario airport vs lax is the ticktes or airfares are more expensive and not too many international flights, so who wants to fly from ontario they should star using more inter flights and cheaper airfares.

[@electricar9]

They should seriously look at installing an elevated & fully automated 24/7 transit system from the Rancho Cucamonga Metrolink station to Ontario International Airport and into the airport terminal similar to either LAX APM or Phoenix Sky Harbor International Airport APM. 😊 Other station stops & airport terminals can be added as well like having a station somewhere at Ontario Mills Mall, the convention center/Toyota Arena, & others. Total less than 6 miles.

[@Ishai1]

Since you brought up SJC and OAK it's worth mentioning the Oakland airport approved changing their name to San Francisco Bay Oakland International Airport (this happened in April) because they thought international travelers don't know where that airport is.

[@gdrriley420]

With a full double track line as long as you hold metrolink to fit in a slot when it enters that segment you could have Arrow run at 10 min headways. Level platforms are a must. Also given that level of service just wire up already APM from RC to all airport terminals is probably better ops cost wise as that can be fully automated and run 24/7 and there are enough off the shelf standard units you don’t get gouged like a monorail

[@tylortap]

best series on youtube

[@elefante8572]

This is magnificent. Can LA Metro hire you? Would love to see a SAN episode :)

[@silveradocyn3082]

I personally love using the Ontario airport, and used to fly in or out from there 3-4 times a month. For a name LA Imperial would not be very good, as there is/was an LAX Imperial terminal on Imperial Hwy on the south side of LAX. LA Inland Airport would be immediately recognizable, less confusing, and very descriptive to those who are not familiar with the area. It would seem that some type of dedicated light rail or people mover would make sense to and from the Brightline terminal so air passengers could make connections, and train passengers could use the car rental facilities at the airport. (One of the biggest challenges I have with trains is the lack of traveler services at most stations) I will make an assumption that Brightline will have some type of connection to Metrolink and the future light rail expansion, and with additional traffic, additional frequency of service will grow.

[@guthreleonard4164]

Bro went off

[@anthony_hugo]

Why can’t we just give unilateral control of transit expansion in the L.A. region to Nandert akin to Robert Mosses levels of control?

[@jhmcd2]

I recall at one point hearing that the reason why there aren't more flights to ONT is because the passengers not the Airlines, are not really interested in flying to ONT and preferred coming into LAX. Not sure how much that is the case today, but it was probably back in the early 2000s...at least that's when I think I heard that.

[@vsznry]

ONT is about to get much busier if they can connect to Brightline West (to Vegas). Thus creating another, great option for consumers. Edit: METROLINK FUCKIN SUCKS. They add stress to commuting to & past LA Union by never being on time & always having to yield to freight.

[@enduser8410]

2:48 I know you said its a very rough map but as a Murrieta/Temecula resident we are absolutely NOT closer to Palm Springs Airport lol. Not even Hemet residents I'd argue because of the freeway layout to Palm Springs.

[@MartinHoeckerMartinez]

I still don't understand why running the A line and Metrolink in the same corridor (from Pomona to Upland) is the best option for that corridor. You have convinced me that I should not simply dismiss those arguments for extending the A line beyond Pomona as duplicative.

[@ChrisJones-gx7fc]

Light rail can provide more frequent service than Metrolink, plus Claremont and Montclair are more major stops than North Pomona, with the latter being a transit hub for IE buses. I’m pretty sure Arrow is also looking to extend its service to North Pomona, or at least Montclair (and possibly beyond to LAUS), which means more frequent service between the IE and LA via an easy transfer to the Metro A Line.

[@erik_griswold]

@@ChrisJones-gx7fcUsing the DMU trains as seen on the Arrow line, the Metrolink SB Line can very much operate at the same frequencies as Light Rail. Those trains are often referred to as Diesel Light Rail in other countries. As it is, SBCTA has stated again and again that they cannot afford to operate trains on the A line at any headways shorter than 20 minutes and possibly they will need to run 30 minute headways off peak (due to their lack of local funding). In all likelihood most A-line trains will be turning back at Pomona-North even if the line is built (now for $1 Billion???) from Pomona to Montclair. And Montclair is just a Caltrans Park-and-Ride now with some apartments nearby plus a dying mall over a 15 minute walk away.

[@ChrisJones-gx7fc]

@@erik_griswold I’d say A Line should at least reach Claremont, as that’s home to a lot of people and a nice walkable downtown, plus the university there. Plus that’s still within LA County so no issue with SBCTA. As for issues with Metro’s “end of line policy” and kicking off riders at the end of the day, which seeing what it’s done in places like Long Beach and Santa Monica can turn cities away from wanting to be a terminus, that’s something that hopefully Metro will be addressing and solving with new policies over the next few years, including fare endorsement and an increased safety presence, as well as better maintaining and cleaning of trains, buses and stations, plus things the cities can do to provide more low-income housing and other services to help those people, and be willing to build those places and not listen to the whims of a select few NIMBYs over the greater public.

[@MartinHoeckerMartinez]

@@ChrisJones-gx7fc The Metrolink line can (and should) be electrified and double tracked from Redlands to Pomona (and beyond to Baldwin Park). The Stadler FLIRT rolling stock (Arrow) should be easily upgraded to use overhead catenary. I don't see why the A line needs to go on the same corridor, why not cross the San Bernardino Line and run the A line further south (along Holt? or Mission?). That way the Pomona station is an interchange. I guess you could use Pomona-Claremont section to cross the A line over (or under) the Metrolink San Bernardino tracks but I still think the two services should diverge as quickly as possible.

[@PASH3227]

I'm SO GLAD someone made this comment before I had to. When the Gold Line, now A Line, was extended to Azusa ridership at the Covina Metrolink Station fell. transit users opted for the slower option since the frequency was much higher. I expect boardings at the Pomona and Claremont Stations to drop once the A Line serves them since it's cheaper and more frequent. Montclair boardings should grow, as the station will become a major transit hub. Metrolink should study closing the Claremont and Pomona Stations so Metrolink and LA Metro don't take away riders form each other. Closing the 2 stations would also speed up service, giving Metrolink more time savings. As LA Metro builds out its light rail system and OmniTrans builds out the BRT system, Metrolink needs to compliment, not compete, with these services by being fast and having only a few stations.

[@samul7531]

Hey Nandert! wondering what software you use to make the visuals in your videos, just google earth? Sincerely an aspiring transit planner

[@andrew2473]

Small note: there is absolutely zero way that the Corona end of the BRT line goes south of SR91.

[@x--.]

Eeeeghghhghg... *LA Empire Airport* is not my favorite but you are unquestionably correct, it would be a major improvement and help tremendously. When first visiting LA I consistently ignored Ontario airport because, get this, I thought it was Ontario Canada that kept popping up. (Of course, when I did figure out it was Ontario, CA, CA, CAlifornia the lack of usable public transit doomed it forever more).

[@wmtrader]

Los Angles Inland would make a good name for the Ontario International Airport with the FAA airport code being LAI (full name - Los Angles Inland Empire International Airport). Los Angles Inland is a good descriptive name with LAI being a good contrast to LAX.

[@parvey]

Time to eat the edible and watch another Nandert video. I rewatch them. Also. Have you gone through the best airport yet? Long Beach! You must. Okay. Back to LIA…

[@PASH3227]

Nandert suggested Long Beach close since it's so close to LAX. Little does he know that will never happened because residents LOVE how fast flights out of Long Beach are!

[@geraldopp1867]

Thanks for this informative journey. Where are you from by the way?

[@J-Bahn]

❤ this channel. You deserve way more subs. One critique on this video; why can’t we just nix the parking and build the ONT station next to the airport terminals x, and then Just build shops hotels etc around the station. This would allow people to more directly hop into their trains reducing the need for the APM, which would probably get very congested with your grand plans (i sincerely mean that this was a great video).

[@toocloseforcomfort8247]

Another great video! Curious why you chose the land north of the tracks for the intermodal station rather than the existing surface parking lot (which could be moved to a smaller footprint multi story garage). Also, assuming people would walk from the station to the eastern terminal before the APM is built is a bit of a stretch. When we were building the terminals we had golf buggies to get around because everything was so far apart, like a mile from end to end (and it’s crazy hot in the summer). Suppose there could be a shuttle bus… or free golf carts!!

[@speedy0]

Well, it takes over an hour from ONT to Los Angeles with little traffic. Imagine what will happen during traffic hours.

[@lem0nad3z]

Normalize traveling through ONT! I live in OC, but I travel through ONT any chance I get. The best thing about ONT is having flights to East/South East Asia

[@mikeanderson3334]

Really liked this video. One problem, though, just from watching this state for the last 5 decades. Any infrastructure project budgeting, when you look at their numbers, needs the cost budget tripled, or even quadrupled, and the time budget expanded 5x... Nothing can be built here. It is just not possible.