The joy and struggles of a Jill player | UMVC3

CorkyJay(@JayCorky) was finally able to play with us after 2 attempts in the past. You can see the joy and the sorrow that Jill players experience in some match ups.
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[@yourstillwithme]

Ironman is an under appreciated character in this game. Hes got a good set of TAC infinites, a great assist, nice incoming mixups, a nice high low game w tridash and fly stuff, great grab conversions from all four, and reallt good mobility. Hes not top tier or anything, but he can definitely work.

[@orionfire1947]

He can get solo kill on hulk with resources if hulk has full health its actually such a high value for just a little bit that when he has meter half the cast dies instantly without assists love that about him hes also got one of the best wavedashes, you can go literally as fast as humanly possible and iron fist will still wavedash

[@yourstillwithme]

@@orionfire1947 One of the biggest things holding him back is no safe DHC in. :/ He also really sucks at DHC out to another character. Ge has weaknesses for sure, but hes overlooked. He has a lot of things that are definitely meta like godlike assist, tac infinites from any spot and can 0-death. Some characters really struggle to 0-death. He can one touch no xf nicely.

[@orionfire1947]

@@yourstillwithme ive never had a problem tagging out and getting combos with iron fist because of QCF MP rekka which has a huge stun, as far as DHC glitch im sure there are teams that can do it with him, like wolverine gets a free one with anyone which is why jwong used IF/Akuma/Wolverine and there are several practical applications of the 0 to death that just dont take much resource and even potentially meter positive Iron fist is a lot better than the worst characters, hes just got no air control so you have to account for that when you pick him elsewhere

[@Frostbite12211983]

It all comes down to preference, doesn't it?

[@ryanwilliams7270]

Keep up the amazing content!

[@somethingsomething9006]

I really like playing Jill, I just wish she was slightly less squishy, that and her damage output being slightly higher would be nice to justify her difficulty.

[@Frostbite12211983]

A character is only as "difficult" as the combos you want to do with them. For example, I play Deadpool/Taskmaster/Captain America, who were considered "easy to play," sometimes dismissively so, but contrast that with what I'm able to do with them, some would consider it difficult. Point being difficulty of use of characters is ultimately player-dependent. And couldn't you apply that same standard to-- say, Firebrand or Amaterasu? And aren't all of those aspects mutually exclusive?

[@somethingsomething9006]

@@Frostbite12211983 That's a bit reductive. Characters can be more difficult in aspects that are purely mechanical, and not reliant on the player. If you want Jill to have comparable damage to a fair portion of the cast, your execution will need to be significantly better than a Dr. Doom combo of comparable damage, yet way easier to perform. Magneto, for instance, has high damage combos, but the execution requirement is above average. Technically, almost every character has the universal M, H, S, super jump, j.M, j.H, j.S, but no one does even mediocre damage with that. It's below mediocre, it's reserved for someone who has played for maybe 2 minutes, and those players are going to have an incredibly difficult time witj Jill anyway when they could have a significantly easier time with most other characters. If you want to actually do good damage with Jill, you are inarguably putting in more work than you'd need to if you wanted similar damage with, say, Wolverine, Zero, Vergil. That's not to say the other aspects that make her quite difficult. She doesn't have a Wolverine dive kick to get in for free, or projectiles, and she has low health. She also has no aerial maneuverability. You have to get in with her stance, or just find a hole in your opponent's neutral. Her combos are more limited than, for example, Dante who also doesn't have crazy high combo damage, but many options to wall bounce, ground bounce, and other combo extentions that Jill needs assists to do a lot of the time, especially considering that her only OTG is a grab attack that needs very specific assists to do anything afterwards. I don't know if you want to count the 2 or 3 bullets of her shooting super as a good OTG. The point is that, to get comparable results, you have to work MUCH harder witulh Jill than you do with the majority of the cast. Your characters are indeed easier than Jill, and I promise that you aren't working as hard as a Jill player needs to do get similar damage, neutral, and overall capability that your team has. I'd argue that Firebrand isn't terribly hard, he has below average damage output but he has more options in the neutral. Same goes with Amaterasu, but harder combos. This is assuming the player isn't settling for whatever hits them up and knocks them down. Good players are going to try to optimize their damage whenever they can.

[@Frostbite12211983]

@@somethingsomething9006 How is it reductive? Everything you mentioned relies on the player's abilities, and also them being different. With different characters, you get different abilities, amounts of damage, and difficulty levels doing the more advanced, optimized combos. And "characters *can be* more difficult in aspects that are purely mechanical" is an example of weasel words; its vague and ambiguous. I'll go back to the example with my team-- better yet, just Deadpool. In order to do higher damage with him, I have to do more advanced combos. Should I look to Capcom to help me with this?

[@somethingsomething9006]

@@Frostbite12211983 It's reductive because you were, at least, alluding to the idea that it's on the player's end to determine difficulty. That idea completely ignores the very real, and often purposefully designed, mechanical and inherent character difficulties. There is such a thing as an easy and a hard character, and that's often designed to be so. You're ignoring things like game plan, input, character kit, and things that are designed that are outside of the player's control. My original comment was me saying that I wished Jill did just a bit more damage and had a bit more health, and I wanted those things because she has to work so much harder than most characters, that it would be a justified reward for her to have those things. Trade offs are important; you shouldn't have an easy character with high damage, good tools, good health, and all that. That's what imbalance is. A mechanically difficult character having high damage or health makes sense, and a mechanically simple character with average damage and health makes sense. Off with this "you're using weasel words" nonsense. Address my actual point, I have no interest in your opinion on whether or not they are weasel words. I said "can" because that's strictly correct. Characters can, in fact, be more difficult based strictly on mechanics/execution requirements. However, that's not the only way that you can gauge difficulty, hence why I said "can be", because there are multiple different ways. You can be an easy character that's hard to win with, and a hard character that's easy to win with. I found that I'd be missing that fact if I just said "character difficulty is tied to execution and mechanics" without talking about exceptions, where difficulty can be actually winning with said character. It would be incorrect to say that it isn't easier to win with certain characters (Vergil, Zero) more than others (Iron Fist, Jill, Hsien-Ko) I genuinely don't understand what you're getting at. I'd say Deadpool does have an unorthodox combo structure compared to most other characters, yes, but I don't think I'd call them hard. Not to mention, his neutral is *DEFINITELY* not difficult. He has fantastic projectiles, good angles for said projectiles, a teleport (yes, I know it backfires after 3 times), a great OTG, a good super (the guns, not the sword one, and definitely not the counter) has good dash speed, his normals are a bit weird but he does have some pretty good ones, I'm pretty sure he has above average health, a standing overhead (not fantastic, I know, but you can catch someone occasionally with it), his damage isn't absurd but it's serviceable, I could go on but you get it. Deadpool doesn't really need help, he's fine. Jill doesn't have this situation. If you were playing, say, Iron Fist, Ryu, Hsien-Ko etc, then it would be easier to compare. Deadpool is not a character I'd consider hard to play, and definitely not hard to perform well with. That's not saying that Deadpool is boring or bland, or that anyone can pick him and win, just that he's not a good example of difficulty in the game.

[@1jn]

@@somethingsomething9006 damn u cooked him lmao

[@elevate07]

I feel your pain Kyohei. So much more than you know

[@Grayfox541]

Yo this game is still as hype as ever

[@remyatempest6700]

I was soooooo rooting for Corky

“Everyone hates Iowa” -MarlinPie 2021

[@kirkcavenaugh758]

And kansas

[@Iheartdrumzz]

Please give jill an airdash :)

[@e69alpha]

Jill has mvc2 strider level mix ups. And if you really try I bet you can make a full anti Chris g team with her as point that super shooting the whole field canceling into vergil or zero to get in close

[@mrshanny82]

12:44 LOL

[@manuefeli]

One And Only Joker, I miss killer kai and Ramasama(or was DiosX?!) .. no-shirt duels and of course corkyjay is good with jill

[@kirkcavenaugh758]

Ironman is scary

[@alexlugo7479]

Is there a discord for begginer players?

[@Throatybee]

is this on parsec right?

[@Throatybee]

@@Harry64278 that's program that you can play umvc3 or other game with others with no lag. it works like stadia. check on youtube.

[@GaijinMediaTH]

FIRST!