The Kālāma Sutta: the Buddha's Charter of Free Inquiry

[@adamdreisler7365]

I am growing fonder and fonder of your easily approachable style of communicating Early / Secular Buddhism. Great Job ✨🙏✨

[@DougsDharma]

🙏😊

[@BVenge-pe4wi]

"A lot of what passes as pure reason is in fact rationalisation". Thank you for that.

[@DougsDharma]

Yes it’s a subtle problem.

[@limty3899]

@@DougsDharma Hello Sir, would it be possible for you to explain this? I couldn't seem to understand. 😅Thanks!

[@DipayanPyne94]

@@limty3899 You can think of it as Thinking and Thinking and Thinking about Topics in the Abstract. Sometimes, we think about really Speculative stuff. It's often wrong, as it disagrees with Reality. So, Rationalisation is often a problem. Now, we can get rid of this problem by studying Greek Philosophy. However, Buddha didn't know anything about that. So, he relied on Practical Experience and Argued along Practical Lines, most of the Time ...

[@sunne1954home]

I live outside kalama, wa. There is a Buddhist meditation center just down the road. Location of Kalama chosen intentionally!

[@DougsDharma]

😄That's pretty neat!

[@kkodikara9534]

Great Video! . Epistemology is the key to understanding this Sutta. One can write several PhD dissertations on this Sutta . I believe Nassim Nicholas Taleb coined the phrase “Empirical Scepticism” which is Kalama Sutta in a nutshell (That’s one Phd. Thesis). This is a truly awesome Sutta that requires great Meditation.

[@DougsDharma]

Yes it's a fascinating sutta for sure!

[@somthawinboonyasupha5661]

I love your critical wisdom 😍🙏🏼🙏🏼🙏🏼

[@DougsDharma]

You’re very welcome Somthawin Boonyasupha! 🙏

[@allenmorgan4309]

This is one of my favorite sutras because it is an example of how anyone who is thoughtful and observant can see the truth for themselves.

[@DougsDharma]

Yes, it's inspirational.

[@allenmorgan4309]

@@DougsDharma Sometimes I get it. Like if you just live a simple and wholesome lifestyle and contemplate your existence your consciousness clears up and you see reality as it really is minus all the misconceptions and it is like a big relief. Sometimes I get that but it never really lasts but I've had it enough times that my grasp on life, or wanting life to happen a certain way, has loosened up a good bit.

[@katrinakuzminas2164]

Thank you. I find the way the Kalamas address the Buddha at the start of the Sutta very interesting.

[@rahult1518]

Wonderful. It uplifted me right away .

[@DougsDharma]

Great! Thanks for the comment, rahul.

[@patrickacolifloresvillasen1731]

Thank you, Doug!

[@DougsDharma]

My pleasure!

[@anthonyadja5244]

There are many instances where some situations (we thought) should be have outcome like this (logical reasoning) then have somewhat not following our logical reasoning. Only after (experimenting) it then we know something is amiss.

[@DougsDharma]

That's right Anthony, pure reasoning only takes us so far. We also need to do experimentation.

[@miilliinnd]

Brilliant work

[@DougsDharma]

🙏😊

[@xiaomaozen]

Great old video, Doug! I agree that we always have to consider the context if we interpret the Buddha's talks. But this sutta's "claims" are very attractive for "modern" secular practitioners, that's for sure. 😁🙏

[@DougsDharma]

I agree, it's one of my favorites.

[@dromgarvan]

Excellent, very clear, thanks!

[@DougsDharma]

You're very welcome dromgarvan, thanks for watching and commenting!

[@alakso777]

Excellent 🙏🏽

[@DougsDharma]

🙏😊

[@vimalkirti4845]

there is another sutta (?) that says to investigate for yourself whether anything is true or not and not to rely on what others say

[@DougsDharma]

I'm sure there is. Do you know which one you are thinking of?

[@stevevest7206]

I find this to be one of the more interesting suttas, but also one of the more dangerous. It can easily be used for rationalizing actions that contradict other Buddhist concepts. It is why I think it more important to get a broad view or Buddhism, rather than focus on a few texts. It may be most beneficial to focus on establishing correct view, rather than finding an individual scripture to justify our actions. An example of this can be seen in another religion where there is scripture saying a wife should obey their husband. It is easy for a husband to remember and spout that scripture while totally ignoring scriptures with regard to the obligations of a husband.

[@DougsDharma]

Yes we have to be careful to take individual texts out of their background context. I don't think this is always a bad thing to do, sometimes there is a teaching that may not otherwise be useful for us but which has useful parts that we can cite. That said, we should be aware when we are picking and choosing in this way.

[@ezkvideos8531]

Excellent viewpoints🙏👌

[@DougsDharma]

Thanks a lot DS K!

[@zamkhanthang9103]

i love that

[@DougsDharma]

Thanks Zam Khan Thang!

[@rommeljmdomingo4541]

Doug do you have a “Fire Sermon” video?

[@DougsDharma]

Great question, it's one I intend to make soon. 🙂

[@DipayanPyne94]

Doug, were the 4 Assurances in the Kalama Sutta, later additions ? I don't think they were, coz they do sound like a continuation of the stuff mentioned just before them ...

[@DougsDharma]

How do you mean? I don't know that anyone's done a good analysis of the possible historical development of that sutta so I have no real idea as to what in it might be early or late.

[@DipayanPyne94]

@@DougsDharma Oh. I see. But, do you at least believe that Buddha himself must have given some Assurances to the Kalama people ? I think he did, simply because after telling them what they shouldn't believe and what they should, he might have felt like convincing them. So, he then convinced them of the 'Rightness' of his views by 'Assuring' them that whether Rebirth is True or not, his Dhamma is Reliable, because it is all about following the Noble Eightfold Path, in this very life. Sounds reasonable, isn't it ? 😄

[@DougsDharma]

Right well I think it sounds very reasonable.

[@DipayanPyne94]

@@DougsDharma Alright. Thanks Doug !!! 😄

[@DipayanPyne94]

Doug, I found something troubling on Reddit. The Chinese Parallel (Madhyama Agama 16) of the Kalama Sutta is quite different from the Pali Version of the Kalama Sutta. In the Pali Version, Buddha states that it is ok to doubt. However, in the Chinese Version, he says something very different. Which one contains the earlier reading ? I think the Pali Version is believable because the Vimamsaka Sutta of the Pali Canon is another Sutta that demonstrates Buddha's advocacy of Free Enquiry. But yeah, even the Vimamsaka Sutta's Chinese Version should be the same as it's Pali Version. What do you have to say about that ? So yeah, 2 questions : 1) Is the Pali Kalama Sutta more Reliable than the Chinese Kalama Sutta ? 2) Is the Pali Vimamsaka Sutta the same as the Chinese Vimamsaka Sutta ?

[@DougsDharma]

Very interesting Dipayan, I've always wanted to know about parallels to that sutta. I think to do a proper evaluation we'd need to look at all potential parallels together and do some historical analysis. Someone like Anālayo would be perfect for it.

[@DipayanPyne94]

@@DougsDharma There's a Paper by Anālayo called : 'Selected Madhyama Agama Discourse Passages and their Pali Parallels' One of the Suttas in the Paper is the Kalama Sutta. He doesn't talk too much about it. That's why I came here to ask you. Anyway, no worries. If you do come to a conclusion in the future, lemme know. The Kalama Sutta is one of my Personal Favorites. That's why, when I found out that the Sutta doesn't have a Similar Chinese Parallel, I felt Sad. Anyway ...

[@QuinnyKR]

Kalama sutta is one of the most misinterpreted suttas by the Buddha, specifically in the west where Buddhism is not so prominent.

[@DougsDharma]

Well each new turn of the dharma wheel brings new suttas into prominence. That can involve overinterpretations or misinterpretations.

[@dimuthuandrahennedhy6120]

Thanks for the explanation but some of it is not correctly explained. You may need to refer to the original Pauli text .

[@kms5750]

buddhist use dhamma not darma darma is religion dhamma is not same religion pleaces read original pali book dhamma and religion is not same

[@DougsDharma]

Thanks, I did a video on this: kzbin.info/www/bejne/Z2itpo2LppqCfsk

[@jarredhischemellor6489]

Dont accept the Teachers teachings unless we scrutinize them, dissect them, really hold them up to the light. Lets remember what happens when groups of people are swept away by a wily, deceptive, charismatic and really far-gone sick person, so far gone that help as Buddhists believe is no longer possible. Or perhaps Mara the Tempter, come calling again: shades of Jim Jones and the Peoples Temple, Koresh and his branch Davidians. It really does bother me that millions of people have passed right by Buddhism. We could have prevented much sickness in the world. Problem is, they dont think they're sick at all, they never gave us a chance..... RH, Pgh Pa

[@DougsDharma]

Yes and it's always good to keep a critical eye open so we don't follow someone down a garden path.

[@Rolando_Cueva]

Kamala probably likes this one.

[@aidanjohnwalsh2129]

The Kalama Sutra was the one responsible for my 'conversion'. I've translated it into a language of my own construction, which I use in conjunction with four other spiritual texts for contemplative purposes. I'll post my version of it here in FOLVASIN: SUTTAN-KALAAMANS EERS-BEI, 'BHIKKHU-BODHI'; FIRTAALEER-BEI, 'AIDAN-JOHN-WALSH' "KALAAMANIN, OORIN-GEEFEER. TWYFILEERT-EUIN; D'EENTEID ONSEEKIREER: OPKOOMINT-IN ONSEEKIRHEIT, OM, FIRDAGEURIS-OOR. LAAT-SITEER KALAAMANIN, OORIN-GEEFEER. NIKS-OORGEEYEER NET-HERT-GIRUGTING-AAN; NIKS-OORGEEYEER NET-NEER-BISKREIVING-AAN; NIKSNET OUSTAANDIG-TRADIESIN-AAN; NIKSNET ONNIRVEISIR-SEGEURTIN-AAN; NIKSNET TEKSINGISAG-AAN; NIKSNET BEIBILGISAG-AAN; NIKSNET LANGAGTIGING OOREENSTEMMING-AAN; NIKSNET SELFSIGTIGING OOREENSTEMMING-AAN; NIKS-OPFATEER MISAANSKOUING EUIN-AAN: 'MAAREER LEERMEESTIR, D'EENMONNIK.' D'EENTEID FAN‐SELF-VEETEERT, KALAAMANIN: 'D'EEN ONHUILSAAM, D'EEN FIRVERPLIKIG; D'IEN ONNIRNEEMIER, UITFOERIER; NAA'N-SKAADING NAA'N-LEIDING FAARIER'; D'EUN VEISIN-DEUR ALKRITISEURT; DAN, FER-VEGBLEITEER-EUIN, LOSLAATEER. D'EENTEID FAN-SELF-VEETEERT, KALAAMANIN: 'D'EEN HUILSAAM, D'EEN ONBIRISPLIKIG; D'IEN ONNIRNEEMIER, UITFOERIER; NAA'N-FOORDEEL, NAA'N-GILUK FAARIER'; D'EUN VEISIN-DEUR ALVAARDEURT; DAN, IN-BITREEYEER-EUIN, STILBLEIYEER."