The Keep It Simple Guide to Counterpoise Wires

[@Don-N3TYF]

Thanks, Walt. I love the way you take complicated and make it simple. You are the reason I upgraded to extra and now do portable, and build my own antennas.

[@COASTALWAVESWIRES]

Thanks so much for this comment my friend! 73, Walt

[@DK5ONV]

For Newbies in HAM Radio as well as for old Farts like me this Channel offers a wide learning Curve to understand what's it all about . Elmer Walter helps out with Answers to Questions from Followers and Subscribers. Tnx for all you do for HAM Radio & 73 de Uncle Günter across the Pond💯🥁🎸👍

[@doc145]

Walt, by far you are the best. You have the perfect blend of personality and demeanor. Some people have it and others don’t. I can listen to you all day. I’ve learned so much about antennas from your videos. You demystify a complex subject. Thank you for all your effort. 73, Phil, K1PJR

[@VE9ASN]

Another great video. If anyone questions the 10db gain, get them to model a vertical for themselves in free software like mmana-gal. Simply change the soil conductivity and watch that antenna pattern squish and the gain go through the roof!

[@COASTALWAVESWIRES]

Great idea! I might make a video showing that. 73, Walt

[@johnc3403]

...and if you don't mind altering your soil composition a little, a bag of driveway salt sprinkled over the radial field every couple of winters makes a noticeable difference too.

[@Inkling777]

@@johnc3403 Epson salt will make the same improvement in conductivity and won't kill plants like NaCl. A power company study found it gives a three-fold improvement.

[@keithsafford3056]

As always Walt, an easy-to-understand description of counterpoise wires. You make us WANT to build antennas and experiment.

[@tommycheshire5508]

My education never ends with your presentations. You are a very generous man to gather and present your information.i fell very lucky.

[@hughpatterson1480]

Excellent video Walt! Ground radials have always been baffling for operators who use vertical antennas. I had to do massive research to figure it out. You condensed a great amount of research into one video that will help people understand radials. I use 10 with 3 of those being slightly shorter than the other radials. I've got really good ground where I live which helps. Rudy's writings are fantastic as are Callum's videos. The problem with some of the antenna books is that they go way over the heads of newer ham radio operators. When I first started learning about radials, it took forever because I had to keep looking up terms I wasn't familiar with. Thanks for simplifying things for those of us who are not rocket scientists...73...Hugh...KN6KNB

[@acestudioscouk-Ace-G0ACE]

Very useful information Walt, especially your comment that if you have no counterpoise, the RF will find one. People forget that one.

[@COASTALWAVESWIRES]

Thanks! Yes they do, RF finds a way

[@N8ESP]

Another fantastic video, my friend! You've been one of the YTers who has really reignited this hobby for me. I've tried a number of different ways to simplify this concept for people who ask, and the best I've come up with is, "we're using the earth to be the second part of a vertical dipole, except that the earth doesn't conduct very well, so we're helping it out with some wire." Your analogy of a starting block is far better! Thanks again for all you do! 73 de N8ESP

[@MrWhiskybmr]

Thanks, Walt an easy-to-understand explanation of counterpoise wires. Love your collection of T shirts and Caps🙂

[@COASTALWAVESWIRES]

Thanks!

[@pastorlarry7470]

Thanks Walt, great video. I have been a ham operator for a long time but most of my work has been in a shack with store bought antennas. I have made a few dipoles and I was with a club where we built G5RVs and sold them. However, my adult ham radio time has either been in military housing and since I retired and became a pastor, church parsonages. Always depended on what the people would allow. Because of your videos and a couple others I have gotten into portable and QRP radios. I have recently built a couple 49:1 baluns and have been running long wire for my QRP setup. I am still learning about long wires and counterpoise. Thanks again for the awesome video. 73 AL7NS Larry

[@KG6UQA]

Thanks, Walt, It's a great video on counterpoise wires. Have a great time at home with the family, relax, and don't worry about your followers during your conference next week.

[@TerraMagnus]

You’re one of the most down to earth Elmers on KZbin. Recent subscriber. Loving the content. I don’t know if you’ve covered this in another video that I haven’t gotten to yet… but I often see you working HF with your antenna close to (literal) sea level. But everyone else I see seems to really emphasize getting up off the ground with telescoping masts. Common rule of thumb seems half a wavelength. But you’re working many QSO’s on 10m at the beach without putting your antenna up 5+ meters in the air. Clearly it works for you. It’d be cool to get the kind of down to earth breakdown you’re doing here. I also love how you’re clearly explaining how working HF at the beach is way more than just nice scenery. Another video that would be cool to hear about from you is vertical vs horizontal antennas, when you’re choosing each. I see you working simple vertical antennas a lot but then I hear others saying when you’re working 10m SSB it should be a horizontal antenna. I’m planning to go for my General exam before end of year. I’ve got a 10m monoband (QT60) arriving today. I’ve got some speaker wire and connectors for fabbing up different antennas. And I’ve got an old Japanese Kei truck that I’m working on as a mobile shack. Your videos having me jonesing to head down from Raleigh to OBX to just get close to the water and have some fun with my radio and some wire and my tiny truck.

[@COASTALWAVESWIRES]

@@TerraMagnus thanks for the kind words! I’ve done several videos on what I call “The Saltwater Amplifier” which explains what’s happening with proximity to the sea. I’ve also done a few on RF ground and putting a vertical on the ground. Have a look through my channel page and you’ll see some of those. Oh and I remember doing a vertical versus horizontal video a while back LOL. All the best and 73, get over to the OBX and have some fun!

[@P.SeanCoady]

Nicely done, here is what I learned 50 years ago Ground acts as a mirror and the radials couple to the ground. Since the ground is essentially a mirror it provides the other half of the antenna. This can be ilillustrated by holding a pencil perpendicular to a mirror and we see two pencils. If the pencil is a 1/4 wave element we now have a 1/2 dipole. This was known as a image antenna. So it is obvious that the shiner the mirror the better the performance. Radials couple capacitivly to ground thus leaving the insulation on the wire is not a issue. As far as resonate length it becomes more important on poor soil conductivity such as sand. AM stations would actually salt their soil with copper sulfate to improve their soil.

[@ricdonato4328]

Thank you for your information. At 11:35 I now understand what folks meant when they said a tape measure antenna. This is the first image I have seen with tape measures, thus seeing them it makes sense what they were saying.

[@COASTALWAVESWIRES]

That was a fun antenna, I did a video on it a while back: kzbin.info/www/bejne/nGfamHaBaptmfcUsi=BQRnhUbJaU6QsTr7

[@ricdonato4328]

@@COASTALWAVESWIRES Just now had the time to watch your video. Wow, amazing, congratulations!

[@scottmorris4914]

Thanks Walt. I have only been listening to you channel for a short while. And Inreally have dug into previous videos. Glad you did a new one.

[@COASTALWAVESWIRES]

Thank you for watching! 73 my friend

[@JPM1956]

Well done! I think your simple explanation of a very complicated subject is just about right.

[@petermichaelcapani7253]

Excellent delineation between radials and counterpoises.

[@johnnorth9355]

I have been using a Sirio Boomerang antenna for 10m with a counterpoise coiled antenna to the main 1/4 wave. Works exceptionally well and now has given me some ideas for other versions. Somehow I am never happy with what I know works but happy to experiment with the unknown . 73 my friend M7BLC.

[@hammerdown036]

Thanks Walt, You make it simple enough that even I can understand it. You, my friend are a great Elmer. 73 Greg

[@robertmeyer4744]

Great job Walt ! What I do for verticals is just get a bunch of wire on the ground. Can be speaker wire. If you can't go long for 80 meters ,just cut in half and re connect them. Same amount of copper. just more. still work the same. This can change a lot due to soil .73

[@weslewis8748]

Thanks, Walt. I built the 25' Rybakov (with 8x, 16' radials) you introduced me to last year and had good results...I just added 28' last night to get 80m (inverted L configuration) and lengthened two of the radials to 30'. Not a full wavelength on 80m, just 118' total...but hope to get out to a friends several states away next week while camping. Love your videos OM.

[@COASTALWAVESWIRES]

That’s awesome! Thanks my friend

[@wb6msa]

I also built the Rybakov, using only 3, 16ft radials, as that was what I had, and worked just fine, would more have been better? Probably, but with 3 and 20 watts on the G90 I was making contacts, so I'm happy. Thanks for all the great content Walt. Mike

[@JamesHindsW5ATJ]

Great video Walt. Love the way you explain things. Thanks, Jim

[@COASTALWAVESWIRES]

Thanks Jim! 73 my friend

[@barryzoll9772]

Thanks!

[@COASTALWAVESWIRES]

Thank you for supporting my channel! 73 my friend

[@GordonHudson]

People get put off trying it because they think they need lots of radials. In reality, one quarter wave radial will get you a match. My radial kit is four 5m long radials. As I am adding a 40m coil I am adding two 10m radials as a separate kit. I will use both together, but I also use the 5m ones on the car antenna when I'm parked. I always tell new hams that the best antenna is the one you can put up today.

[@dandypoint]

Another good discussion! Might be good to note that the terms radial and counterpoise are now being used interchangeably. Not sure if that is good or bad but it seems to be the way it is. In the old days we would use counterpoise meaning one such radial. Either way they can be on the ground or elevated. Thinking of the antenna as a complete circuit with the copper part of the circuit being completed with a field line drawn from one conductor to the other also helps visualize how/ where the radial or counterpoise “ collects” the current from the surrounding air, either or space around the antenna. Some authors use the term “ push against” to try and illustrate that the radiating element or visible half of the antenna needs something to collect the current that leaves it. Hard to explain without writing a book or teaching a couple of engineering classes but you definitely are helping a lot people understand better.

[@COASTALWAVESWIRES]

Great input, thanks for sharing

[@Jeff_AA8HF]

I think that once enough people start using the terms interchangeably it’s a losing battle to try and change that. I was just reading the ARRL Antenna Book on the subject of counterpoise last week and if memory serves it said, if the wire is on the ground as part of the RF ground system, then it is called a radial. A counterpoise is typically elevated.

[@dandypoint]

@@Jeff_AA8HF you are correct. My first counterpoise was a short wire on the floor behind my radio desk to make the chassis of the radio stop biting me on 15 meters! Suggested by my Johnson Viking Ranger II transmitter manual. I used to cringe when I heard misuse of the terms but now only thing to remember is when someone says counterpoise they probably mean radial.

[@NovemberOneOscarGrouch]

Great video Walt. I recently had this exact conversation with a newer ham on reddit. Gotta go activate by the ocean with you soon!

[@PatFortino]

Thanks for another great video Walt. You are a great teacher.

[@bevo65]

Walt Hudson, the Great Demystifier. Thanks again, brother! 🤠

[@j.p.thearmoredchef]

Awesome seeing the wild gain changes from the sea. I’m in a 2 area 😂 For my dx commander I actually purchased an extra roll of dx10 (3 in total) to help compensate for my rocky crap mountain soil. Everyone seems to make these videos for explaining counterpoises. Nobody seems to ever show their counterpoise on their EFHW though? Like an actual full video of this is what I have, this is the length, I’m deploying it like this…etc) The videos always show an example of a vertical (when on this subject). Had a new/pre ham ask me and when I suggested some KZbinrs to check out, he pointed this out to me. Maybe a hole in the market for a few videos 🤔.

[@FIL357]

Another learning experience Walt. I really appreciate the way you explain and demonstrate the lesson. I’ve learned much, again👍😁. Bought a G90 and it’s going well. Going to try beachside with the 20/5 - I’m only a very few miles away. Keep ‘em coming! Regards, Phil, Suffolk, U.K.🇬🇧

[@F4LDT-Alain]

Thanks a lot Walt, another great informative, useful and simple to understand video. So different from the endless boring graphs from guys playing with antenna simulation programs (yes, yes, I know these are quite useful to, I'm just too lazy to watch). You just gave me an idea here: next time I'll go portable inland, I'll lay down four radials only but bring a jerrycan full of water with a kilogram of salt thrown in and pour it down around the antenna 😄

[@KO4VNX]

"I got a mic in my hand got my toes in the sand And all I really need, is a beautiful wire" -- Admiral Salty Walt the Counterpoise album

[@WD0OMHamRadio]

Salty Walt and the Pool Noodles present...

[@andy2E0JIU]

Hey walt,great explanation!!!! Hope you n family are well

[@daveengstrom9250]

This really helped me understand the concept. Thank you for making this video. I am in the process of putting up a vertical RIGHT NOW as a matter of fact. This is quite timely for me (take the rest of the day off).

[@MaineGirl-W1GRL]

I appreciate the cheat sheets. I always take screen shots of those.

[@johnc3403]

Just a few tips from a counterpoise addict.. Don't bury them deeper than 4 to 6 inches, HF radiation doesn't penetrate the ground well. 32 radials is a useful maximum. The improvements beyond that are so small as to be pointless. 32 radials cut for 40M (33ft), will operate like 16 radials on 80M and 8 radials on 160M. ..and of course, like 64 radials on 20M. That relationship is proven and reliable. ...the point above is that 64 radials are only a tiny bit better than 32 on 40M. However 64 radials on 40M will work like 16 radials on 160M instead of 8 and THAT is significant. Radials in wet and/or salty ground work best. You can sprinkle driveway salt across your radial field every couple of wiinters to aid conductivity, that works well. Don't feel the need to splash out on costly wire. Simple medium gauge copper wire is great and will last years. Slice the soil with a spade and push the wires in. Do this mid-winter and your lawn will be healed by the summer. You'll be surprised.

[@truckinguy92]

I have found with extensive experimentation in that length doesn’t matter and more shorter are better than less longer while lying on the ground. I’ve done a lot of experimenting with this very subject in several different locations over several different kinds of ground. I’m using the WRC Sporty Forty and the Chameleon 17’SS whip on a tripod or stainless steel tent stake w/ a stainless steel jaw mount. It didn’t matter whether or not I used either. With the tripod I was trying to isolate the ground side from actually being “grounded”. I laid out 12 16.5 radials and the SWR was over 4:1, then removed 4 and it dropped to 3:1, removed 4 more and it dropped to 2.5:1, folded the last 4 in half and it dropped to 1.2:1. So now that’s 4 radials @ 8.25’ or 33’ of total radials or basically 1/4 on 40m. I also took 2 sets of my 16.5 radials & made them 33’ long so now I have 4 1/4 wavelength radials lying on the ground. Sliced a little bit off the end of each one and got a 1.3:1 or less across the entire voice portion of 40m. Then I removed the coil and tried 20m, and now I have 4 1/2 wavelength radials lying on the ground for 20m. This got me about a 1.6:1 across the whole voice portion of 20m which isn’t bad. Why this happens for me and not others is anyone’s guess. I certainly don’t have any idea as to why. In my experience length does make a difference, even while lying on the ground. As far as gain 1db of gain on the other end isn’t even going to be noticed.

[@aguilaneth]

Great video again Salty Walt hope to catch you one day qrp to qrp on HF

[@COASTALWAVESWIRES]

Thank you! Catch you in the bands!

[@Rubedo777]

Hi Walt, just put up a 35’ 6” ‘random wire’ antenna after watching your video in Poland a couple of times… I’m really small here at home, my garden is micro and I’ve only just started up again after more than 25yrs… anyway, my random is off the ground similar to the window set up in Poland into my ‘shack’ in the garden / yard,,, you said a counterpoise of 6’ 6” should be used… well it’s hardly reaching the ground??? S O, I’m going to put a couple more up one will be twice the length… first swr test only, mine tuned up on three bands nice, even 40m which was a big surprise, I’ve only just put it up… ( 29th September ) so not been able to do anything but listen… no rush. Walt, you are an inspiration and Callum… I refer to him as the Antenna Alchemist, I’ve learned a load off him and now got you as well. 🧐 🤔 When you publish the book I want one. 😉 I’ll send you my address / cost whatever.73. Best wishes to everyone. 💙 G0UVL

[@COASTALWAVESWIRES]

Thanks so much for the kind words. Callum inspires me as well. I'm working hard on the book! 73 my friend

[@JohnR_ytbe]

Great video. Love your videos and operating style.

[@Philip-KA4KOE]

Real big on KISS here and the law of diminishing returns. I always think about how much stuff I have to break down when it's time to go home. Think HEFTY HEFTY HEFTY vs. wimpy wimpy wimpy!

[@COASTALWAVESWIRES]

😂😂😂

[@DCtoDaylight]

Thanks for the overview. Great penmanship BTW!

[@timbeaty854]

Always enjoy your videos. This is a subject that gets my OCD ripping. I'm really glad you talked about this subject. Banana plugs are cheap. Thin wire is cheap. I can make counterpoise groups easily. Here's the deal. 20M antenna. 1/4 wave counterpoise. My understanding is I could put out 8 5M wires of counterpoise spread out. If I want to use them for 10M....just double them back on themselves for the correct length. ????? How far off am I? =)

[@drjonathanln9871]

Note from my activation yesterday. My dxcommander came in. Loving the pvc base for it working great can't wait to be on the beach Monday 😂. Anyway yesterday did a pota at US-6393 trying the raybakov style 25ish ft of 20ga with the 4:1. The 4:1 was probably 2-3.5 ft off the ground .. still working on my alignment skills.. I was fascinated by the swr readings. 4 18ft counterpoise wires: 10m 1.3, 20m 2.4, 40m 5 6 18ft wires: 10m 1.4, 20m 2.4, 40m 5.3 0 wires: 10m 1.3, 20m 2.3, 40m 2 Anyway ended up activating on 40m no wires got 56 qsos in an hour. So I guess I am lost on the concept of wires or the terrain I was on was screwing with it.. or the 50ft coax was enough.... or the counterpoise were to Sloped coming off the pole it was interfering... can't wait to continue trying!

[@playhamradio]

When you had 0 counterpoise wires down, your 50' coax would have been acting as the counterpoise. I tried my 25' vertcal with one 60' counterpoise wire. I got low SWR, but did not get out much. Changed to 4 x 16'5" wires and got lots of contacts all across the continent. Low SWR is not an indication of an efficient antenna. Making contacts is what matters, with an SWR low enough to not damage your transmitter. Have fun!

[@Montaguy]

Thanks Walt. As always, very useful content 73

[@Retired_Five-0_W4WAG]

I have been using the RECON 40 20m/40m coil Vertical Antenna a lot for POTA Activations recently and I’ve found that the sweet spot for my locations, is using 4 banana plugs with each having 5 wires, at 2 meters long.

[@COASTALWAVESWIRES]

That’s interesting

[@waynewelshans1249]

Have the Dx Commander Sig9 with 16 12 ft radials on the ground. living in Fl. in can lay it on the ground only loosening 1 wing nut in about 2 min. when the bad storms are coming. talked to over 20 countries with 100 watts. he makes a fine antenna.

[@2182DX]

Another great video Walt..!! ….my only query, when is a radial not a counterpoise….if it’s on the ground…?👍

[@sv4rin]

You are more than welcome to Greece. 73 de SV4RIN

[@NCBtrying]

I just passed my general and just bought a g90. I’m operating out of Norfolk and I hope to work you sometime. 73, KQ4MTI

[@jameyevans29]

Congratulations 🎉

[@markdeweese9288]

Don't forget a really good ground especially with the MP1 Supper Antenna

[@mobiltec]

Thanks Walt. This helps a lot. Couple of questions. If I were to put a ham stick up on a 25 foot pole, should I be using radials? And is this true with any raised antenna? If I understand what's going on I would think I should be using radials like a normal ground plane. Other question is this. What if you are out on a boat and want to operate on HF? Counterpoise right into the water? Then what if it's fresh water as on a lake?

[@45Unit]

Did you know the band Talking Heads was formed in Rhode Island? They were students at RISD (Rhode Island School of Design).

[@Mandarin110631]

thanks again Walt!!

[@WaterfallChaser-h2o]

Remember that for every action there is an equal and opposite reaction. So there Has to be somewhere for that energy to go.

[@JeffreyWilliams-x4x]

Dam I'm sitting here all bug eyed ! That was way cool!! Thanks walt hope that goes in the book 73 kd2vrz

[@pasixty6510]

Imagine your vertical antenna building up an electrical field from the radiator to the ground, The better ground conductivity is the better. So when ground conductivity is bad, you can try to compensate that by deploying many radials. Over conductive ground (eg saltwater, wet soil) you come away with less radials. That’s all. But, by the way, this only applies to ground radials. They improve hf grounding. Elevated radials radiate and thus must be tuned.

[@Swamp-Fox]

Another gem Walt! 73, KF4LMZ

[@CamilleCullen-ow6qj]

Very informative video, many thanks!!! Robert K5TPC

[@billmcgee4446]

Walt, Great info as usual. Do you do anything to stop water wicking into your radials. Mine show corrosion in all of the 6-15ft of wire radial that i use. I have heard nothing about this issue. Bill KQ4KNP

[@madmoe1]

Thanks sir

[@wambroser]

Is it detrimental to run longer counterpoise wires. For example on a 10m quarter length antenna are four 5m counterpoise wires helpful or a detriment?

[@COASTALWAVESWIRES]

It’s helpful, more and longer is better

[@wambroser]

@@COASTALWAVESWIRES thanks Walt!

[@dc5723]

I usually put 4 each 16 ft long counterpoise wires.

[@K4VTE1818]

What length counterpoise you used for a 29 ft. Random wire?

[@MD4ADLS]

What about next to a fresh water swimming pool in the garden? KO6PRJ

[@imahamjim]

Ur new name is ole salty. Jim. We met at the convention 😂😂

[@chrisf6934]

What do you mean by "terrain by saltwater" I'm 1 mile from the water, I can smell it but I can't see it. Am I by salt water or do you mean at the beach, toes in the sand?

[@COASTALWAVESWIRES]

At the beach, toes in sand, Counterpoise in the wet sand

[@Deltgolftango]

Yea but raised radials 🎙 drop. Lol. I did the raised radials on the beach trip, and i didn't notice anything better. I did better with it on the ground. Although it may work better further inland.

[@jessgypin-ko5ds]

Why now counter poise instead of radials?

[@haraldlonn898]

One wire in to the water is all you need.

[@COASTALWAVESWIRES]

Yes indeed

[@MIKROWAVE1]

Hee, I remember my first rental home in Ft Lauderdale with a beautiful canal in the back. I installed the vertical near the water and threw in some # 10 wire! Excellent performance for 2 weeks. The wire was pitted and destroyed within a month.

[@BradleyBrown]

Great explanation! de KC1JMH

[@45Unit]

Callum is almost as cool as you! lol

[@robertbosley4814]

What the hell are you doing Walt? You should be using raised counterpoise wires 😮🤥🤯

[@COASTALWAVESWIRES]

😂😂😂

[@waynewelshans1249]

BTW not eating today

[@johanwithag2432]

I'm going to try a bucket of salt water and put one radial in it ......

[@COASTALWAVESWIRES]

@@johanwithag2432 that will not work

[@johanwithag2432]

@@COASTALWAVESWIRES I know, I was joking. I wonder what the physics is behind that one counterpoise wire in the salty lake. Does it matter if it is in or out of the water. What is the interaction between the wire and water.

[@COASTALWAVESWIRES]

@ hahaha you would be surprised how many times the bucket of salt water quote has come up in my comments. As for the wire in water it’s just like counterpoise on earth, it’s all about coupling to the surface, I’ve found that just being close works well.

[@johanwithag2432]

@@COASTALWAVESWIRES Hi Walt, thanks for coming back on this one. Sprinkling salt around the vertical would be a nice other one.

[@michaelsmith1069]

Great Video! You really explained the how's & why's really well! I enjoy watching your videos and look forward to the next one! 73 KF0PAY

[@turtlecreek4633]

great info! 73 w3rrm