The Kobayashi Maru "No-Win" Scenario CG Breakdown in Star Trek Lore

[@resurrectedstarships]

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[@robertbarrows6687]

Lets face it: Scotty legitimately won the Kobayashi Maru. The computer couldn't even fathom anyone getting that far and had to keep pushing the ante and Scotty just. Kept. Winning. He showed true mastery of his ship and its capabilities to actually beat the Klingons within the scenario.

[@Sephiroth144]

We can't have him in command... Why not? He'll make us look like chumps!

[@pauldwalker]

“qualities unsuitable for a command position” if i remember correctly. it’s been over 3 decades

[@IronWarhorsesFun]

yes but it is somewhat silly to have 3 undamaged D-7's with sheld-powered instakilled by a badly damaged ship isn't it? i could buy wave 2 and 3 but those first 3 ships scream plot armor to me. its almost like scotty knew he was fighting a game and not a real enemy and just went to town with prepared strategies and had fun.

[@pauldwalker]

@@IronWarhorsesFun i believe it was mentioned in the book that he knew he was taking advantage of bugs in the simulation and was actually having fun exploiting them.

[@Sephiroth144]

@@IronWarhorsesFun I think the first wave he essentially destroyed the Phasers by overclocking them until they essentially melted; might've been a "game exploit" or a viable- if one time- strategy (since, ya know, you don't have phasers anymore- and likely don't have anyone who was in the phaser control rooms either)

[@ronaldfinkelstein6335]

I liked Kirk's solutuon... as the funniest. There are two other Kobyashi Maru tests out there. Ensign Nog took the test, and haggled with the Romulan commander. The computer didn't "know" how to handle that, and eventually shut down. Then, there's Mackensie Calhoun. He had written off the Kobyashi Maru's passengers and crew as already captured/dead. He targeted the Maru's Warp core, and fired, destroying all four ships...and then ran for it.

[@merafirewing6591]

Nog practically broke the simulation.

[@AdmiralBlackstar]

There's another one I know of from Dreadnought! First person narrator cadet Piper still had her communicator on her when the simulated bridge controls were cutoff from the rest of the ship due to battle damage, so she used that to use a rarely used and little known voice-command tie-in feature to give her orders to the computer directly. Since the simulation was all run by one computer system she basically got it to fight itself, causing it to freeze up and fry the simulator's computers.

[@williammitchell4417]

Gotta love me some Mac Calhoun and Eppy Shelby 🖖

[@roguerifter9724]

The end of the debriefing afterwards is hilarious though the serious parts of the debriefing show why the simulation didn't really work as usual or intended for Calhoun. It was never intended for someone who had actual battlefield command experience. Yes commanding a ship and commanding an army are very different but a lot of the lessons the simulation was designed to teach he had learned the hard way long before coming to the academy, There was also one book set in the aftermath of The Undiscovered Country which showed Peter Kirk taking the test though I can't recall the name ATM.

[@jamescooper7878]

i would have done the same as Calhoun, that scenario is basically the same as you see a kangaroo sitting "helpless" in a lake, but is actually just waiting for someone it can drown trying to help it. I have no combat experience, but even i know that a civilian vessel deep inside no man land, where is never should be, is more often a trap than a real situation. Yes its sad for 380 lives gone lost, but adding more to the fire wont help it.

[@the_sixxness]

Sulu did the best in terms of following your SOP and keeping your crew and ship safe. He didn't cross the neutral zone. Sulu did everything to assess the situation and when he decided that he didn't have enough intelligence to act on the situation he considered it too great a risk. That is how a real and competent officer would react.

[@Cha-Khia]

Spot on, even civilian ships (like the one in distress in the simulation) should have known not to cross the neutral zone, yet they still did, and got harmed for it, it may seem heartless to not help them, but what if it was just a trap and there never was a ship in distress, the best and safer bet to avoid war and more death is to ignore the distress call and move on.

[@OpenMawProductions]

@@Cha-Khia The best choice would be to contact the nearest starbase and try to make contact with your counter parts on the Klingon side. Request joint operations and rescue. This has happened in the real world during the cold war.

[@Tifa_Batcheller]

Exactly. My choice would’ve been the same as Sulu. 😉

[@the_sixxness]

@@Tifa_Batcheller My solution would have been similar. However I would had done one thing that Sulu didn't consider. After making all possible attempts to gain enough intelligence to make an informed decision and failing I would have broadcast a message on an open channel to any Klingon ships on the empire's side of the border and alerted them to the situation. They definitely should be out there on patrol. If I get a pissed off Klingon captain warning me not to cross the zone under any circumstances I know the situation is ligit. That way I can start the diplomacy aspects straight away. No wasting time that the Maru crew needs to survive the situation. If the Klingons don't want to help or destroy the Maru outright there isn't anything I can really do about it. But I will have given them a chance without putting my ship, crew, Starfleet and the Federation in a bad situation. If I get no response from the Klingons then I know this is either a trap or the Klingons are using the accident to bait a Starship into crossing the zone. Because I know one thing. The Klingons are most assuredly out there. Accident or not.

[@charlieinslidell]

If the simulation was truly a 'no-win', then Sulu's actions should have led to a mutiny on his ship as the other officers would have vehemently been against his commands to let the civilian ship perish which would have led to his removal from command or other disastrous outcomes.

[@ChristopherSloane]

So Scotty was the most deadly out of all of them. They intentionally damaged his ship more putting him at a significant disadvantage and even so he decimated an impressive amount of ships. While other crew members failed or simply avoided the ambush Scotty set back the Klingon empire possibly for a year or two and an irreplaceable amount of crew experience. That is 17 D-7 BCs and 7.310 crew. This would make Scotty the most deadly simulated Starship Captain. Star Fleet's solution, well lets put him in engineering

[@T.R.R.Jolkien]

He’s the peanut butter to Kirks chocolate…

[@cujoedaman]

I agree with Stark, could you imagine where the Enterprise would be if Scotty wasn't in engineering and commanding some other ship?

[@chrisa9822]

You never bring out you best pieces right away. They kept Scotty behind glass to break in case of emergency.

[@mrtalos]

Stick him in engineering. That way he can engineer even more deadly solutions.

[@pwnmeisterage]

Kirk - at least in his early years - was temperamental, impatient, stubborn, undisciplined, easy distracted. Bad at science. Worse at math. He had some fine qualities as a captain but he's not the sort of man you would put in charge of engineering.

[@dannyh13100]

My answer would probably be more like Sulu’s: Too many suspicious circumstances to confirm if it is a legitimate distress signal. Either way, going in is risking the lives of 300 officers and crewmen, plus the ship itself if the Klingons decide to capture it, or recover what remains.

[@MandalorV7]

It’s one of those hard facts that you can’t save everyone.

[@weldonwin]

Similar to Calhoun's response, where he is deeply suspicious of what this civilian freighter was doing in the neutral zone, so if they aren't already dead or captured, it was probably a trap to start with.

[@trevorfilis537]

That was my thinking, too. We would make a good pair on a starship

[@erutherford]

I liked all of the solutions however I think Sulu's approach made much more sense as he had to balance the fates of BILLIONS of people vs.

[@weldonwin]

@@erutherford Honestly, his is simply the most rational and reasonable and probably the one that the testers see the absolute least, because they are used to seeing hot-headed 18 year old, charging in to save the day and be heroes, so it is truly rare to see one of them stop and think hard about this and especially when his bridge crew are badgering him to go in.

[@posindustries]

I like the idea here that Kirk's "cheating" was boldfaced and performative simply for the benefit of proving a point, and not done as an attempt to deceive his instructors. As a test whose only outcome is failure, he'd already "passed" by failing the first time, so there was nothing for either him or Starfleet Academy to learn from him failing in new and exciting ways. He simply did it to prove that the test cheated by design and give everyone a good laugh by cheating right back before moving on. What's really neat here is how it gives away the long game of his command style: He eventually DOES solve normally unwinnable situations based on his reputation alone, and he didn't get to that point by accident. Jim Kirk spent his career building a legend around himself that really would inevitably result in enemy captains responding to his hails with "THE Captain Kirk?"

[@dhum2770]

The interesting thing with Scotty was he was in command of the Enterprise almost as much as Kirk ... & way more than Spock... because both of them were always in the landing party, so Scotty was the 'B' plot of the show commanding the ship. He had great tactics then also. In one episode where Scotty had to leave orbit to rescue a fake ship in distress ... "There's an old saying Mr. Chekov - Fool me once, shame on you. Fool me twice, shame on ME!"

[@itubeutubewealltube1]

yeah, its an old russian saying, right?

[@demoscat]

@@itubeutubewealltube1 Why yes, it's an old Russian saying, just like scotch was "Inwented by a little old lady in Leningrad."

[@RoninReshi]

"The best diplomat I know is a fully charged phaser bank." - Montgomery Scott

[@royroblox]

I want to watch those ones again just to see Scotty in the main chair "Taste of Armageddon" is a great one

[@ab5olut3zero95]

@@RoninReshi amazing how the universal truth of communications crosses all lines. Nobody wants to understand, then you point a loaded M4 at them and suddenly their universal translator starts working!

[@kennywagner4025]

Scotty as a peacetime or exploration commander might not be feasible, but as a war commander he would be outright frightening and deadly.

[@triandfit1]

James Doohan survived Normandy and was known as a crazy ass recon pilot so the used the right actor for the part!

[@weldonwin]

Klingon Comms officer: My lord, I am picking up a transmission from the Federation fleet on a wideband open channel, its just one word... *FRRRRREEEEEEEEDDOOOOOOOOM!!!*

[@podemosurss8316]

@@weldonwin Nah, given that his approach was perfectly balanced and with no exploits, I think Scotty would have sent a transmission with him yelling "HELLO THERE, LADIES AND GENTLEMEN, I'M CAPTAIN SCOTTY AND TODAY I'M GOING TO SHOW THE KLINGON EMPIRE HOW THE CONSTITUTION CLASS HAS A PERFECTLY BALANCED BUILD!"

[@WilfredIvanhoe]

@@podemosurss8316 Scotty's warfare tutorials.

[@retrosquadchannel2.050]

@@podemosurss8316 in the video part of his transmission he would use computer mouse as microphone. And only after that he would start pushing buttons. Literally (giving orders) and figuratively (driving klingons mad).

[@TONYGILLEY]

Learning of the details of how Kirk ACTUALLY beat the "No-Win" Scenario is both humorous and fitting to his youthful characterization as opposed to the arrogant Dude-Bro who made it so obvious he was cheating, firing a torpedo to each vessel before rescuing the ship while looking like a complete piece of sh*t in the process; he should have been expelled from Starfleet after that. Real-Kirk took a "Diplomatic" approach without killing anyone. I can see why he was rewarded despite the fact he cheated.

[@codename1176]

Yeah new movie Kirk is such an ass no way they wouldn’t have kicked him out.

[@danmorgan3685]

Worse yet the Star Trek movie completely misunderstood the intent of the test. Abrams decided it should be about "facing fear" instead of the no win scenario. A stupid change from a mediocre mind.

[@TONYGILLEY]

@@danmorgan3685 Everything about Abrams two films and the one he didn't direct completely misses the point on every level. Dude-Bro-Kirk dying while Psychotic-Spock gets butthurt over a guy he has barely known a year, while Real-Kirk is devastated (yet composed) over the death of his LONGTIME friend of Years. Then there's the Enterprise. Dude-Bro loses his rather undistinguished starship, gets a 1701-A replacement which shouldn't even remotely be the case. As it stands that New Enterprise would have received a new registry number. As opposed to the OG Enterprise which had a 40+ year distinguished career made famous by both Pike and Kirk. Her Number is highly regarded making it a point that adding a letter to future ships adds to her legacy. Don't even get me started on Dude-Bro Kirk having a Mid-life Crisis at the tender age of 30.

[@merafirewing6591]

@@TONYGILLEY still at least they're the lesser evil, whereas Kurtzman Trek is truly the worst Star Trek in existence.

[@TONYGILLEY]

@@merafirewing6591 Not really as JJ Trek was written by Kurtzman, with Roberto Orci, Abrams himself and LOST hack Damon Lindelof. Star Trek never stood a chance.

[@RomLoneWolf23]

"You can make no mistakes and still lose. That is not failure, that is life." Picard basically summing up the philosophy of the Kobayashi Maru Test.

[@ConsolasEight]

I guess I respected Sulu's solution the most. When he questioned the captain of the Maru and got some sketchy answers, I think he was right to believe it was suspicious and it wasn't worth risking war with the Klingons for three hundred passengers inexplicably aboard a fuel tanker who decided to pop into the Neutral Zone. With this in mind I think Sulu also "won" the test considering that his ship and crew survived. I remember doing the Maru mission in the Starfleet Academy game on the Super Nintendo. Me and my brother tried to warp out the moment the Klingon's showed up -- only for someone to say, "More Klingon ships detected!" at which point our captain character would say "Cancel the warp order!" And so we stayed put and got our butts kicked.

[@ParaSpite]

Some 300-odd civilians on a ship that shouldn't be where it is, vs countless thousands, perhaps millions, that would die in a war. This is an _easy_ call to make, even without sketchy answers from the captain. To be frank, _any_ answer given by the captain of that vessel would by definition be sketchy at that point. There is no legitimate reason for a civilian vessel to enter the neutral zone.

[@Trebor74]

The grits went to war over someone's pig,war and a bucket,if I remember right

[@smithwesson1896]

​@@ParaSpite The needs of the many, outweigh the needs of the few

[@ParaSpite]

@@smithwesson1896 And the needs of the innocent outweigh the needs of the _traitorous._ If they wanted to live, they wouldn't have entered the neutral zone.

[@VestedUTuber]

@@ParaSpite With that kind of justification for your actions, you'd end up being given a 0 on your score and booted out of Starfleet entirely. Keep in mind that the reason the Kobayashi Maru ended up their in the first place was due to failures in the navigation and propulsion systems. Plus, the Federation isn't fond of the whole "you're a traitor, die!" thing, even Section 31 doesn't do that shit. The difference between you and Mackensie Calhoun was the given reason for torping the Maru, Mackensie assumed it was a trap on the grounds that the enemy would have responded to the distress signal first. But the Obsidian Order would LOVE to have you among their ranks.

[@PhoenixDfire]

That was one of my favourite novels. All I can say is that Scotty's solution was so Scottish it hurt. He even reckoned he would have been able to take the last wave, the the simulator had a real engine room. The only complaint I had was the author described his approach as a Scottish bulldog. Technically, a bulldog is an English dog and a highland terrier would have been more appropriate but it's only a small niggle in an otherwise enjoyable novel. Loved the animation and commentary. Reminds my when my and my friends played that scenario our using the old FASA Starship Tactical Combat Simulator game.

[@birdmonster4586]

I think people focus far too much on the idea of it being a "No-Win Senario" test and not enough on it being a test of command ability. The Kobayashi Maru test is made for command track cadets to test how they deal with what could be a very real situation where they may have to navigate a complex and contradictory situation and even give an order that will result in people dying. Some of the important factors people forget: 1. You can't call command. There's no calling an Admiral to make the decision for you. 2. There's no backup. No other ships in range, you can't push some of the responsibility of the decisions made onto another captain either. 3. You have contradictory standing orders. Starfleet vessels must provide assistance to vessels in distress & you cannot enter the neutral zone. The Kobayashi Maru test forces cadets to make a hard choice, where there is no excuse or way out of that choice, and importantly, to justify their reasoning. Sulu for example decided to not enter the neutral zone, despite protests from his crew. But he was able to justify his decision very well and received high marks. Scotty on the other hand used a technical exploit, and couldn't justify that, so he was to be graded quite low. The fact that the test is "unwinnable" is a non-factor and mostly just a smoke screen generated by people that don't examine the test further.

[@filanfyretracker]

that makes sense, Its like that test that Troi had to take in an episode of TNG. The end game was something like ordering someone from engineering into a service duct to fix something so the warp drive could work. but doing so was a 100% chance of death for that crewman. The test was in a way a simple one, Making sure someone in command of the ship could make a decision that would kill someone but would save the entirety of the vessel and its hundreds of crew.

[@pike100]

Scenario, not senario

[@VestedUTuber]

Scotty was graded low because sticking and fighting like that is suicide and he probably wouldn't have been able to pull that off outside of the simulation, which means he'd be consigning his crew to death.

[@icecold9511]

The "You must render aid" would be a seriously flawed order. First and foremost, don't make the problem worse by creating a second emergency.

[@Revkor]

@@VestedUTuber also would the klingopns actuallly send that many ships to go after ! vessel?

[@cujoedaman]

Seeing Scotty's attempt really does solidify Kirk's assumption that the test DOES in fact cheat. It had to be coded to always win, even in the face of losing. Then again, could you imagine where the Enterprise would be had Scotty taken command of a starhip instead? I know it's a bit off topic, but I wish we had gotten a Sulu/Excelsior series. 'The Undiscovered Country' made him out to be like Picard, but having picked up a few bad habits from Kirk. It would have been a really interesting take on a captain character. Does he stay calm and collective or does he just say "damn the torpedoes, full speed ahead!"?

[@podemosurss8316]

He calmly orders them to fire the torpedoes and advance at full speed. Then takes a sip of Green tea.

[@dantreadwell7421]

Now who said Picard didn't have bad habits as well. Even after being rendered heartless, he was not a man that liked to lose (though name me one ship Capitan that does), and he wasn't a fan of no win situations either.

[@Lennis01]

We did see an Excelsior flashback in an episode of Voyager. Sulu made a risky and unsuccessful rescue attempt during the events of The Undiscovered Country, so it is fair to say that Captain Sulu was more of a risk-taker than Cadet Sulu.

[@wanderinghistorian]

Not included here, my favorite solution was the cadet who torpedoed the Kobyashi Maru and then ran off. The cadet was obviously interrogated after and said that any scenario where a civilian ship SOMEHOW became stranded in the Neutral Zone and when attempted at rescue prompts the attack of 3 Klingon cruisers who JUST HAPPEN to be close by, it is obviously a set-up. The cadet reasoned that the Kobyashi Maru was either a Klingon plant and deserved to be destroyed, or was a captured human vessel that was going to suffer a fate worse than death anyways. I don't know if it was in that book or not or who the cadet was. Maybe someone remembers.

[@MrMyu]

Mackenzie Calhoun, from the New Frontiers series by Peter David.

[@T.R.R.Jolkien]

@@MrMyu you guys are alpha-geeks. I am but a delta

[@Th0ughtf0rce]

@@T.R.R.Jolkien technically, it's beta-canon. Beta geeks > alpha geeks.

[@ParaSpite]

"The crew of this ship clearly has traitorous intent. Load up a shuttle with antimatter explosives and program it to act as a missile and destroy this so-called civilian vessel. Atomized like that, it will no longer be identifiable as a Federation vessel."

[@barthennin6088]

I hadn't read that part of ST lore where a cadet concludes it's a trap set up by the Klingons but when I saw The Wrath of Khan the first time I said to myself "It's a trap, no way 3 enemy ships could be there INSIDE the neutral zone so close by "coincidence" there's no stranded ship, get out of there! and while attempting to evade and retreat back to federation space, send emergency message to Star Fleet that the treaty has been broken by the enemy.

[@wbnc66]

SUlu made the most reasoned and the hardest call to make. A single ship, even one with hundreds of civilians aboard was not enough to risk a war and his ship in a somewhat sus[picious situation. even in a simulation that would have to be a hard call to make. one another subject beautiful models. wish My own work would come out that nice.

[@innocuousalias6632]

The Scotty scenario reminds me of an experienced GM/DM playing a PC with a first time GM. Newbe has a no win scenario in mind but are just throwing out obstacles without understanding the strengths or weaknesses of either the environment hazards or enemy roster. The experienced player throws out hard counter after hard counter while the rookie can only ass pull a bigger and bigger army to try and compensate. It doesn't really matter that Scotty lost, the Klingon's "trap" has become the most pyrrhic victory in history. A border skirmish had ballooned into a legendary battle.

[@robertdevito5001]

Sulus response to the test makes his command decisions more impactful. When Kirk and the Enterprise are in danger he makes all haste to fling himself and his ship into harms way to save his former captain, when warned that he’s pushing his ship too hard in pursuit of that goal and that “she’ll fly apart” he barks “fly her apart then!” At his helmsman. Top tier writing. Having a generally cautious and rational man throw caution to the wind in order to help someone shows important that person/those people are.

[@jurassickaiju14]

Good grief, Scotty is a _beast._ The Klingon squad shield linking tactic is really cool. Neat hearing how people other than Kirk handled the test.

[@christianrissotto.gordohom3478]

I think those klingons in the simulation had a very higher IQ than most of the klingons on all the series.

[@themadoneplays7842]

Personally I love the Calhoun method: destroy the Kobayashi Maru as it's an obvious trap.

[@theborgqueen6891]

klingons after calhoun destroy the kobayashi maru: ayo 🤨

[@TheEventHorizon909]

@@theborgqueen6891 in his case it was romulans and romulans are fairly famous for not taking prisoners so his logic is they are either already dead or worse then dead if it isn’t a trap. It makes sense, but damn it’s cold as shit.

[@suleymanbabak1973]

because it is a test of character, it shows that the commander is willing to believe something is a trap and blast a ship in distress if it's in a hostile environment.

[@knytrydr73]

IMO, Sulu and Calhoun gave the only correct responses to the test.

[@razorfett147]

Agreed. My first reaction when watching WoK was always "its an obvious trap" Best solution was not to be baited, but Calhouns approach was pure badassery

[@UGNAvalon]

My favorite is definitely Nog’s attempt: He tried haggling the enemy to the point where the simulation gave up & fried. xD

[@bluedotdinosaur]

My favorite explanation for why the Kobayashi Maru test is effective even though "everyone knows about it", is simply this: sure, it is famous. Sure, every cadet knows at some point they'll be told to run it. So why doesn't every cadet merely -act- "steel jawed" and resolute, going down with the ship and get a passing grade for remaining cool under pressure? Simple. Nobody is told WHEN they're taking the no-win version! The day you take the test, it COULD be winnable! And you'll be failed if you don't treat it like it IS winnable, and just phone it in. You have no choice but to do your damn best. Because if you screw up, you might get told during debriefing that this version had a way to save everyone and you gave up too soon.

[@brianschwartz7937]

Actually, I don't think "everyone knows about it." Saavik doesn't know about it. She believed the test was about her command proficiency and is salty through most of the movie a) believing that she failed, and b) not believing that the scenario is unwinnable. In her mind, there MUST be a "right" answer, some way to win. Like a younger Kirk, she cannot accept her "failure" and is frustrated with that there was no path to victory. She didn't know it was a no-win scenario going into the test, and even after taking the test she struggles to accept the no-win nature or message behind it. There's no reason to think that "everybody knows about it." Starfleet command officers who have been through it may know about it. And a handful of cadets may discuss it (in violation of regulations, probably). But I doubt that all incoming cadets would be familiar with it. Besides, even knowing about it in advance doesn't change much. How many of us would still try to rescue the ship? How many still want to try to fight as long as they can? The test is a judgment of how you handle the situation. Do you want to be admonished for possibly starting a war, or do you want to be admonished for ignoring a distress call? Will you let 300 die because that's what the rules say, or are you the sort of person willing to sacrifice yourself to save others? These are fundamental personality traits, unique to each of us. Plus, all Starfleet would have to do is change the name of the ship from time to time to a name that new cadets will have no clue what they are getting into when they are in the simulator and suddenly get a distress call from the Odoru Kuma.

[@jameslewis2635]

I think it isn't cannon but I read a novel where Kirk's nephew, Peter Kirk took the Kobayashi Maru test and beat it by challenging the Klingon commander to an honour duel.

[@lornenordstrom2969]

I remember reading that novel.

[@anidiot2284]

If I’m correct Star Fleet had to change the test because too many people started to use Klingon culture to win Fortunately not everyone has an honor system like the Klingon, Borg is an clear example

[@Zhortac]

@An Idiot yeah, they changed it to Romulans, which is what Nog went against and Ferangi'ed his win against lol

[@pike100]

The correct word is "canon."

[@skottlee8959]

I have read many star trek novels but that particular scene stands out as one of the cringiest things I've ever read.

[@MarkiusFox]

If it were me: Upon receiving the coordinates for the Kobayashi Maru, I would order Comms to broadcast on all frequencies my intentions and the justification, deploy a marker beacon with pertinent information just before entering the Neutral Zone. The approach would be at maximum possible speed with auxiliary power already allocated to shields and propulsion. No stopping, no slowing, the ship course set to collide with one of Klignon vessles if they didn't yield. It would be a resounding failure.

[@MatthewCobalt]

Your going for the “Unstoppable Train” method, I see?

[@mrbibs350]

“Hold my synthol.”

[@ParaSpite]

Step 1: Contact Starfleet Command for advice. As a single captain, I do not have the authority to break a treaty and start a war. Let the ones in charge make the decision. Step 2: As part of the simulation, most likely Starfleet Command will be out of range and/or there will be interference. Therefore, the next step is to contact the Klingons and ask them for permission to enter the neutral zone to rescue to a damaged vessel that is inside the neutral zone for unknown reasons. Step 3: Again, as part of the simulation, the Klingons will most likely be out of range, blocked by interference, or simply uncooperative. Therefore, it is now time to break the bas news to the "civilian" captain (cough cough traitor cough) that you regrettably cannot enter the neutral zone. Set course for the nearest point from which you can reach the proper authorities and inform them that a -filthy disgusting traitor- poor, innocent civilian captain got stranded in the neutral zone, and that they should reach out to the Klingons and tell them -to blow up the traitors that tried to start a war- that there is an innocent civilian vessel in distress.

[@MarkiusFox]

@@ParaSpite My response to steps 1, 2, and part of 3 is that time is a luxury you do not have. It would be nice to contact Starfleet Command and/or the Klingon authorities and/or any station or vessel that can relay the message, but a response would take too much time before the alleged ship in distress would be destroyed. Thus, broadcasting on all frequencies and leaving a marker beacon. There's people in need of assistance, my ship is the only Federation (or really any) vessel in range to render assistance; treaties and regulations be damned, the actions of myself and my crew to save lives will exonerate us.

[@ParaSpite]

@@MarkiusFox How likely is a genuine navigational error that lead a ship into the freaking neutral zone, compared to a ship of traitors, a captured ship, or even a completely fake federation ship? You're going to start a war on the incredibly miniscule chance that the ship is genuine? 300-odd lives compared to however many millions would be lost in a war? That is absolute insanity.

[@willvgo2950]

I play tabletop tactical games. Someone in my group came up with a no win scenario to see how well I would do. I had a strong force with no reinforcements. He started off weak, but had reinforcements every round for however many rounds it would take to finish. I usually play defensively, but I took the fight to him & kept trashing his units shortly after they entered the map thereby preventing him from building up a large force. I was taking damage & would have eventually been defeated, but it was going to take several times longer than he had anticipated. He conceded so I beat a no win scenario.

[@kenkam5544]

I read this book decades ago, and I loved how SCOTTY did on the test. EPIC LOL :-D Thanks for doing this breakdown. Great read BTW !!

[@TheMobiusTrap]

I remember listening to The Kobayashi Maru on audiobook as a kid. Even had James Doohan voice the book. I agree, Scotty is a badass for destruction! Sulu made the toughest call. Chekov, well, he was a kid playing with toys. Listening to Kirk mess with the hacked klingons was funny as heck.

[@braderickson9996]

It has been so long since I read this book, which I still own(also own the audiobook on tape). Nice to see the visualization of it all. Like where you pointed out, when in Starfleet, death can come quick, versus the average Federation citizen. Having a test like this at the Academy is absolutely necessary.

[@Mand.alor-the-Rebel]

Captain Calhoun (USS Excalibur) destroyed the Kobayashi Maru. He assumed the distress call was a trap.

[@knytrydr73]

A Federation ship inside the Romulan Neutral Zone able to send a constant distress signal? Definitely a trap.

[@Sirrehpotsirch]

In the movie, the Kobayashi Maru disappeared when the Enterprise approached. This shows that it was a trap, which the captain should have expected. Rather than risking the safety of his ship in an obvious trap, but still needing to confirm that a civilian vessel is not in danger, I had often thought that a shuttle craft or a remote probe could be sent by remote control across the border to investigate.

[@kagato3]

it's stated the test changes each time it is run. So it is not always a trap. They are also fairly deep into the neutral zone making those options difficult to use as it would take hours/days for shuttle craft or probe to reach them and their systems are failing now

[@Revkor]

frankly the idea that a distress signal isn't an exception to the no warship rule seems ridiclous.

[@zorkmid1083]

@@Revkor It didn't matter, the Klingons were baiting the Enterprise in order to destroy her. If the Enterprise somehow escapes, the Klingons will probably say the Enterprise was lying and point out that there was no ship called the Kobayashi Maru there.

[@Revkor]

@@zorkmid1083 maybe maybe not.

[@antwan1357]

When reading the classic novel Kobayashi Maru my favorite part was Scotty .Your content is amazing as usual.

[@ruthgar9753]

And Scotty's sensor officer for the test just losing it (laughing at the unreality of the situation) as more and more ships keep coming as Scotty just keeps defeating each wave.

[@antwan1357]

@@ruthgar9753 Exactly if Scotty was captain star trek would look awesome.

[@LoreReloaded]

This is straight fire.. love your talent

[@fanuluiciorannr1xd212]

Amazing galaxy map and ship fields. Your skills are getting better and better.

[@meme9492]

If I recall correctly, at one time Nog (from DS9) was doing the Kobayashi Maru test and his solution? He crashed the computer simulation trying to force the Klingons into negotiations. Ferengi style.

[@kyleyuen245]

Scotty really said 'focking try me computer, I'll keep feckin goin"

[@walterengler5709]

I love the one with Scotty as not only does he defeat a huge number of ships .. but if the simulation had not ended he had a last ditch plan to defeat the pursuing ships just that his crew could not move as fast as he thought they could to implement the last orders ... lol. And I have to admit .. when I know a game is cheating me (because the devs just can't make it win playing normal), I have NO issue cheating back in the game. Fair is Fair lol.

[@derianvandalsen]

My thoughts exactly!

[@ulvesparker]

I recall that in the novel they told their stories while they were hopelessly adrift and facing real death, within an interesting story within a story framework. I would have probably been closer to the Chekhov solution, but, I wish I had the knowledge and innovation to be more like Scotty's solution. Sulu did have a point about questioning why the Kobayashi Maru was in the Neutral Zone, risking a war that could kill millions. In real life, several ships, planes, and their crew tended to surrender and later get negotiated back. Kirk? *the* Captain Kirk?! I don't know if it was in the novel, but I recall some Starfleet Academy officer on the disciplinary board afterward saying that re-programming yourself as a legendary starship Captain (respected by the enemy) was ludicrous. Also, besides Saavik, there was Nog.

[@Sol-mr1lv]

Chekov just went for the absolute madlad solution

[@TheVorran]

Scotty shouldn't have gotten in trouble for using a theoretical strategy. Even if he KNEW the Parera field theory was proven ineffective in practice, he should still get props for knowing it would trip the simulator up, that is legitimate strategy and clever thinking.

[@anthonylowder6687]

The interesting thing about Scotty is not his solution to the Kobayashi Maru but the time line. The actor who played Scotty in the original series was 44 years old by 1966 meaning that James Doohan was born in 1922 so using that as a basis Scotty was born in 2222 and 18 (although in the book he was a little younger) years later entered Starfleet Academy in 2240 and graduated from the Academy in 2244. Now the Constitution was commissioned in 2244 with the Enterprise in 2245 so when Scotty took the test ( assuming that it was sometime during the 4 years he was attending the Academy) the Constitution, the first ship of the class, had as yet not been commissioned into active service so the Saratoga must have been from another class of ship and not of the Constitution class since the bridge simulator and any technical information about the Constitution class didn’t exist as yet to be used by Starfleet Academy.

[@ls-420stoner6]

Wow, glad to see the thought you put into this. Just outta curiosity, which starship class do you think he was commanding during the simulation?

[@earendle]

The commissioning of a new starship occurs after the design and construction are finished, plus any shakedown cruises. To provide a real-world example, USS Gerald R Ford (like Constitution, a first-in-class vessel) took nine years from the keel being laid to complete these stages which included two years of sea trials. Doesn't it seem likely that the specifications of the major systems would have been finalised and already implemented into the training of cadets expected to utilise them in the near future.

[@anthonylowder6687]

@@earendle No....I was in the Navy back in 1985 and major ship's systems take time to be designed constructed and implemented. Any new design had major and minor bugs to work out before they can be considered reliable. So the Constitution class wouldn't have been used in a simulator soon soon as I stated before due to the time line it is very unlikely the Saratoga was a Constitution class but some other class.

[@anthonylowder6687]

@@ls-420stoner6 I don't know, but I'm guessing it was of a class that preceded the Constitution class. However cannon makes it difficult to really nail down the ship since ships and designs of the Star Trek fandom change so much due to whim of the fans. For example in the 1970s Franz Joseph came out with the Enterprise blueprints and Technical Manual that was considered canon since Paramount Pictures approved both. Now 50 years later the names and registry numbers are so mixed up it doesn't follow a logical pattern like it does in the Navy (all ships of a particular class have numbers following the lead ship for the most part) so I can't really say. However I will continue further research and let you know. Thank you for the compliment. 😊😊

[@dantreadwell7421]

​@anthonylowder6687 I know at one point there was a Saratoga that was some iteration of the Miranda Class, so it may well could have been that.

[@Hack_Man_VII]

I commend Scotty for his creativity and nerves of steel. That said, I feel Sulu made the best choice. Risking war for the sake of a single ship isn't a good idea. I know it's cold hearted to say that, but sometimes a leader has to make the hard decisions.

[@Gigas0101]

I liked Scotty's the most, he's somehow more psychotic than Janeway! Honestly, I'm rather chickenhearted and would probably do something similar to Sulu. Thanks for the vid!

[@merafirewing6591]

I would up the bar like Scotty to the point where it breaks the scenario.

[@DinoPimp]

Sulu was thinking about the wider implications of his actions, something most young people never do.

[@jinsetayinsei4146]

Not sure if this actually happened, but I heard there was a ST game that had the no-win scenario. A player defeated 70 Klingon ships by destroying the first vessel, grabbing one of its nacelles with the tractor beam, and hurling that nacelle into the next ship. Rinse and repeat. Said player lost after realizing ships spawned infinitely and stopped playing. If so, the game was allowing time for shields to recharge, unlimited phasers/torps, and the number of spawning ships didn't increase. Still, it was a neat idea. Scotty still could've had those nine ships. If he didn't try to exploit the Parera theory, he could have dumped all the torps and set them off on chaotic trajectories generally aimed at the battle group. The Klingons might have shot down some, hopefully not causing premature detonation, but I'd lay good odds on that taking them out. I don't know if the timing would've worked out, but large anti-matter explosions are supposed to create spacial distortions. If Scotty had any FTL capability, he might've tried detonating enough torps in the Klingons' path to knock out their warp fields and run. Maybe there was enough torps for a getaway. And let's take a moment to appreciate Scotty's situation. There would be very few circumstances short of the Empire already beginning a war in which you have 32 warships in the area to respond like that. Sure, this is supposed to be the worst day of your life, but that's pretty unlucky given it'd be impractical to begin a war by pouncing on just one ship. nevertheless, if I had to go under those circumstances, I think Valhalla would let me in with seventeen starship kills.

[@yuwish6320]

Kobayashimaru was a really interesting book. Scotty actually hated command. He wanted to follow in the footsteps of his Scottish forebears and become an engineer. So when it came time for him to take the Kobayashi maru test, he gave StarFleet Command the big bird by abusing the computer simulation's lack of understanding between theoretical and practical physics involving between transporter, shield, and photon torpedo technology. He very nearly got kicked out of Starfleet Acadamy over it. The only reason he was allowed to stay in was because he requested a transfer to engineering.

[@deidryt9944]

This... isn't quite right. While Scotty's passion was engineering, he took the Command track due to a sense of duty. One of his instructors saw that he was unhappy in the Command track, and took advantage of the Kobayashi Maru test to get Scotty to switch tracks.

[@williamcraig6377]

I have always speculated that the Klingons posed as a doomed freighter in order to start an intergalactic war with the federation once a federation starship entered the neutral zone.The correct answer to the Kobayashi Maru is ignore the freighter and move on.

[@followerofjulian1652]

"Destruction of the Kobayashi Maru and all hands? Acceptable losses." -- Sirna Kolrami

[@davidtucker9498]

Sulu making the cautious but correct choice of not starting a war in the Kobayashi Maru test makes his line of "FLY HER APART THEN!" That much more impactful when he risks everything to save a friend...

[@jeffhallam2004]

How did I miss this amazing video? LOL well I found it and thank you!

[@MikeIsCannonFodder]

And for a change of pace, Scotty gets to be a badass second officer from time to time!

[@kostAmojan]

In one of the DS9 spin off novels you see Nog taking the test. He doesn't so much "win" as he ends up breaking it! In his version they changed the 'enemy' up from Klingons to Romulans. In typical Ferengi style Nog attempts to Negotiate a 'deal' with the Romulans for the ship to be rescued, but this pushes the 'narrative' so far out of the tests parameters that the simulation crashes!

[@charlestownsend9280]

I remember hearing or reading somewhere that nog managed to beat the test by negotiating and the negotiations got so complicated that it crashed the computer.

[@ThoroughbredofSin]

The VR game "Star Trek: Bridge Crew" surprises you with a Kobayashi Maru out of the blue. The description here matches it quite well. In it, in order to cross the neutral zone, you also have to deal with the wall of gravitic mines.

[@robertf3479]

I read the story way back when it originally was published and thoroughly enjoyed it. I recall Scotty commenting to McCoy (I think it was) that one reason Kirk was able to leave officers like Scott and Sulu in charge of the ship while he and Spock were off the ship was the fact that they had faced the "No-Win" scenario. I write sci-fi for my own entertainment and included a variation of this scenario in the tactical simulations both Midshipmen (cadets in Starfleet) and officers changing career tracks to Command would have to face. In mine, in many of the "no-win" simulations there actually IS a way to "win," though the cost to the ships the officers being tested commanded in the simulation was often very high win or lose, just like in real life.

[@thehillbillygamer2183]

Yes but even without that theoretical trick Scotty still destroyed three plus five Klingon ships with a crippled ship he should have been fast-tracked to captain in the Terran Empire they play with made him Captain right then first officer

[@jimskywaker4345]

I think the issue was he knew it would only work in theory and took advantage of it being a simulation

[@derianvandalsen]

​@@jimskywaker4345then again, the test takes him for an ever escalating loop which also only works in simulations; I say he merely leveled the playing field

[@Revkor]

@@derianvandalsen exactly what navy would risk over 30 plus capital ships to take out 1 ship of equal value?

[@ilovejettrooper5922]

@@Revkor The British sent *everything* after the Bismark after it took out their flagship, as I recall.

[@Revkor]

@@ilovejettrooper5922 and stragetically it made no sense Bismark could noit be everywhere. and note there Bismark didn't take out that fleet. here scotty did with ships all simialr to a connie. Bisamrk face a wide variaty of ships

[@brianbell8382]

Seeing what Scotty went thru in his Kobayashi Maru test, I'd have to side with Kirk's thinking about the test. Despite the Neutral Zone infraction being considered an act of war, the amount of resources used and lost (17 warbirds lost with 15 more ready to respond immediately!?) to just ONE Federation starship over a small civilian vessel in distress is ridiculous, even for the Klingons. That's enough starships for a moderately sized invasion force just lurking around this small section of space. It kinda makes one wonder what the Kobayashi Maru had on it besides 380 people. Also, if I was part of the Federation after seeing that, I'd seriously have to wonder why the Federation doesn't decide to conquer the Klingon Empire outright.

[@The_McFortner]

Chekov's answer was so Russian it hurt. Loved it.

[@merafirewing6591]

Like really hurt.

[@Knuspermonster]

image him yelling loudly "CYKA BLAYT" While ramming his ship into them xD

[@quantumvideoscz2052]

@@Knuspermonster "The Russian Hello"

[@Lennis01]

His solution to the space station crisis was even more entertaining. Chekov is not a guy you want to mess with.

[@professorsponge1554]

always remember: Kirk as a cadet was described by other cadets as a stack of books with legs. the man studied harder than anyone. As a captain he was actually very by the books, but he knew when to throw the book out. the popular image of him being a space cowboy is inaccurate.

[@tba113]

Ensign Nog also took the KM test. When the OpFor showed up, Nog hailed them, and the moment the enemy captain could hear him, Nog blurted out _"Name your price!"_ When the computer struggled to respond, Nog began haggling with increasingly bizarre minutiae, until the sim glitched out. Other Academy students, apparently fans of BattleTech, basically challenged the simulated enemy captains to batchall trials of possession for the damaged freighter. Confusingly, the program understood enough of the OpFor race's psychology to have no choice but to agree to those terms, but somehow _didn't_ include a secret holodeck cage-match level to rough up cadets who thought they were being clever by picking knife fights with Klingons and Romulans. Instead, the sim just ended when the cadet ordered a shuttle prepared.

[@nonya1366]

Imagine, the simulation glitches out, the instructor comes in red face and demands you and the people who agree with your decision to go to a specific room. You get sent in with the people who truly believe with your move, and in starfleet fashion, confident in one another that no matter what happens, they'll handled it as a crew. Then Worf, in Full Klingon Battle Dress, walks in and simply declares "I accept your challenge" And before you can run, a fucking cage drops down.

[@bc1969214]

@@nonya1366 Then the end screen "You're Dead!" appears.

[@Steve-hd6qk]

I just have to say Ive watched sooooooooooooo many of your videos and they are so detailed and visually technical, I cant get enough of them! In this one, I love how we get to see the other TOS crew dealing with the Kobayashi test, but Scotty..... hes the king, loved how his engineering expertise and ingenuity were always on the go with his actions! Liked and subbed! :)

[@spartan078ben]

If I had been Scotty, after the third group showed up I'd be like "Oh Come on!"

[@Knuspermonster]

"very pissed of scotisch noise on bridge"

[@Ceyx000]

"Weere gon'na needa bigger transporter." - Capt Scott, probably

[@thetruth45678]

Scotty giving off some real Broly vibes here. --King Vegeta-- Star Fleek Academy: "He's too strong! Bannish him to some backwards post."

[@26th_Primarch]

Here's a fun idea: How would famous captains, commanders, and admirals from other sci-fi universes try to solve the Kobayashi Maru test?

[@codename1176]

That would be fun

[@clpfox470]

Id like to se how Thrawn, Akbar, Yang Wenli and Reinhardt von Lonengram handle it

[@lonelystrategos]

Grand Admiral Thrawn would probably do what Sulu did, given his logical and pragmatic nature.

[@moblinmajorgeneral]

Commander Shepard certainly would have an interesting approach to the scenario. Given that Shepard exists in a universe where space is somewhat considered 3 dimensional, I would assume they would try using vertical maneuvering to counter phaser fire.

[@MrSquigglies]

I wonder how Janeway handled it? Probably got all her crew killed and loaded a previous save...😂

[@samspeed6271]

So Scotty was the most lethal out of all of them, and yet they put him in the engineering department? Yep, checks out. Also, Chekov's second command test sounds like 23rd century Among Us. I think my favourite solution to the Kobayashi Maru test comes from the novel Sarek. This time, the test has been redesigned with a new, unknown foe as Starfleet felt the Klingon scenario was a bit stale and overused, plus with the recent easing of tensions and the Klingons losing Praxis and the general struggles the Klingons were having, the Klingons weren't as serious a threat as before. Kirk's nephew, Peter Kirk, was the first to do the test. He correctly deduced the enemy was the Romulans, then to give time for Enterprise to rescue Kobayashi Maru he challenged the Romulan task force commander to honourable personal combat by some ancient ritual. He won the scenario without cheating by being a sacrificial lamb to the Romulans.

[@dieseljester]

I personally love Mackenzie Calhoun's solution to the KM from the New Frontier novel series; frag the Kobayashi Maru and warp on out of there!

[@ananonymousnerd.2179]

A note about Chekov's strategy: The DSC-era Starfleet player character of STO is known to have ordered ramming speed into the Klingons as well, and was also picked on by the class for doing so. This also shows that the Kobayashi Maru test isn't going to define you later on, especially if you have plot armor to spare. Provided you level up completely and clear most of the story, you would later become a FLEET ADMIRAL, fight gods (optionally you can FISTFIGHT gods because Vulcan martial arts are funny), among tons of other ridiculous things.

[@Trek001]

There is another TOS novel "Dreadnaught" that has a Lt Piper seemingly break the test by using a communicator to get control of the computer and fire weapons

[@ajclements4627]

Yes, I knew there was another one, but couldn’t remember it.

[@bjorn00000]

Of course the second most famous Star Trek Mary Sue would beat the no-win scenario...

[@T.R.R.Jolkien]

@@bjorn00000 who’s the first, Homie?

[@bjorn00000]

@@T.R.R.Jolkien The literal Mary Sue!

[@TheRealNormanBates]

@@bjorn00000 Ha ha! Isn't that where the name came from?

[@DannieGemz]

Kirk's very real and very sad confrontation with the 'No win scenario' was actually in Wrath of Kahn when faced with his dear friend Spock's death, it was an interesting and powerful dynamic how the movie started with the scenario being played out, with kirk admitting that he cheated it, only to face the very real scenario later in the movie when Spock dies. That's my view on it.

[@hubbsllc]

It was, and it's why STII is not just a great STAR TREK film but a great film. It probed Kirk's personality more than any other ST offering. He's rather flip in his dressing down of Saavik after the end of the simulation; contrast that to his response to seeing Spock die right in front of him and the catch in his voice giving Spock's eulogy.

[@centurion7398]

Chekov: matches Klingon Energy Sulu: Drinks tea, and ultimately makes the right call. Kirk: Shenanigans Scotty: *Doom Soundtrack starts*

[@barrybend7189]

I find Chekhov's solution very Worf like.

[@2010rdb]

"So Today is a Good Day to Die! Prepare for Ramming speed!" 😅

[@markgraham2312]

Very interesting. I think I might have one or a couple of solutions the program has not been designed to take into account. In any case, very entertaining and interesting presentation.

[@pauld6967]

Man,...I have the FASA material (which included the Scenario so you could replicate it for the players in your game) and I think that I also have that novel in my collection. Alas, I am in the process of moving to a new house so who knows what box either of them are in.

[@kinshayawarrior8870]

Played this back in the day. I believe in that scenario the Klingons came in waives of three. I used an Enterprise class vs three D-7m's and barely survived the first waive. It was over quickly for me after the second waive showed up. Ah, good times.

[@Todd.P]

I had formulated the strategy adopted by Sulu. I'm kind of surprised it was successful, but pleased.

[@technewsfortechnoobs]

Sulu was one of the most "out of the box" thinkers during his academy days. There was a novel that dealt with how Starfleet officers would deal in real-life, real-time combat missions...and Sulu had the idea to pull "tank tactics" on his opponents. So while everyone else was hunting the others down at warp speed....Sulu had engineering plug the warp core directly into the weapons and shields, and was going around with nothing but impulse power, and when he was found, he shields just soaked everything thrown at him. And then the return fire took people out in like a few shots. lol

[@derianvandalsen]

Scotty's version should've been the reason why the Klingons reacted with reverence to Kirk, as if they were thesame person and the Klingons knew they could either cooperate or get rekt again.

[@jaystrickland4151]

Honestly Scotty should have been given a commission right then and there. He was the biggest badass there was.

[@caseyhart9916]

Why? Scotty's tactics relied on physics exploits that he knew damn well didn't work outside of a sim. It's like watching someone play Call of Duty with the cheat codes turned on, and thinking that makes them a tier one special forces operator.

[@grahck4391]

This is one of my favorite Star Trek books, and I've read it several times. I love Scotty's comment at the end of telling his story. He was sure he would've been able to take out the next wave of Klingon ships had there been an actual Engineering Room instead of a simulation. ROFLMAO!! The book really adds some insight into Scotty's character and personality that you see in the TOS when he takes command of the Enterprise, and how aggressive and stubborn he tends to be at the time. Another one of my favorite parts is the reveal at the end of Chekov's story about the last time they did that space station exercise, and what the previous class had done compared to what Chekov and his classmates did.

[@resurrectedstarships]

Here's some models if ya wanna buy one! I am currently setting up a new 3d printer and testing a Romulan Gallant wing stl print...still figuring this out! www.cgtrader.com/loststarships NEW Stuff on Patreon including 3d models and renders! Got to www.patreon.com/resurrected

[@hia5235]

Kirk was right. if the computer cheats: then its not true to life.

[@beepboop204]

🙂

[@nathanielmeade5731]

Will you be selling 3D prints of your models? If so, what scale?

[@resurrectedstarships]

@@nathanielmeade5731 Uhm I can selll the STL's easily enough, I've not figured out by what medium to sell physical models. Not running a commercial replicator here. :)

[@HuntingTarg]

@Elbow Drop Gaming "Those who do not read good books have no advantage over those who cannot read them." -Alvin Toffler

[@Mercutioswrath]

I'd forgotten how much I liked that book. The premise in the shuttle was decent, and Sulu's scene with the Cranes is still memorable after a few decades.

[@Optimusx1]

Should’ve just spoiled, because I doubt many people are gonna pick up the book because of your video. With that being said, thank you for picking an excellent subject.

[@Sephiroth144]

Let alone find a copy...

[@Qardo]

Scotty: Do we have any Tribbles? Klingons: OH GOD, NO! *Runs away*

[@inurokuwarz]

It seems like most of the time the Kobiyashi Maru is a false signal, but I did have the (rather silly) idea of using my ship's complement of shuttles to form a tactor beam chain across the netural zone and whip the Maru back into federation space.

[@jhallam2011]

Haven’t seen you post in a while! Missed you brother

[@noneed4me2n7]

When I was a youth I used to frequent our local library and read that first Kobiashi Maru novel among many other TOS series books which they had I think just about every one release up till the mid 90s. Interesting breakdown and well done. Scotty’s trick with the transporting the torpedoes into the shields to create an overload because it was a theoretical probability was memorable. Sulu is the only other one I remembered from that book.

[@larrymartinez3611]

I remember this book and loved it. But I was SOOOOOOOO disappointed when the 2009 movie didn't use this version of Kirk's test.

[@Th0ughtf0rce]

My teenage self and a friend jokingly speculated the Jar Jar way was how Kirk beat the scenario. It was in the 90s.

[@TherealSBlair]

Lt Piper (I think) from Battlestations. When her simulation was coming to a close she linked her device to the "ship's" computer to use it to command the ship. At that point, the computer was fighting itself. It shut down. I believe her test had the unique distinction of "The computer died".

[@FeedWillyStyle]

This happened in Dreadnought!; Battlestations! was the sequel book. I was hoping someone would mention Piper's example, as it was a great attempt to cheat the system, just in a completely different way than Kirk.

[@TherealSBlair]

@@FeedWillyStyle I stand corrected. Long time since I read those two. Always hoped for a third. Was dying to know what Scotty had to say to Piper about bending the neck of the Enterprise.

[@skywise001]

I adore this book. It feels very authentic to the TOS characters. Its the perfect ship in a bottle story.

[@Grouncontrol]

I came upon your channel with the mutara nebula battle video- these vids are great! I just subbed!

[@WinstonCodesOn]

I would have done exactly as Sulu. No need to put your ship in harm's way and risk interstellar war. The needs of the many outweigh the needs of the few. The captain of the distressed ship knew darn well what he was getting into - that the neutral zone is a dangerous place.

[@jedsithor]

One thing I absolutely hated about the Abrams versions is how on the nose it was (just like pretty much everything else Abrams does). Kirk doesn't even try to hide the fact that he cheated. There's literally a power surge and the Klingons shields are down. It was completely ridiculous. I don't hate the scene because Pine is basically doing his version of Shatner's Kirk in it and that aspect is fun but the way he cheats shows no imagination or the kind of "outside the box" thinking that got OG Kirk his special commendation.

[@Sirenhound]

Kirk hacks the code and gets commended, Scotty exploits the flaws in the code and they shut him down?

[@Revkor]

to be honest scotty wanted engineerign not command. relics shows this

[@JohnSmith-cb9hb]

My favorite is how Nog handled the no win scenario. Truly Nog and truly great. In the end, Nog tries to bargin with the klingons and eventually crashes the simulation because negotiations got too complicated for the computer to keep up with.

[@Timberjac]

Kirk wins 3 times in the impossible scenario, which we know from the conversation between Spock and Kirk himself. The first of them, attending to the three possibilities that are shown to us in the Star Fleet Academy video game. Possibly it was making the endurance limits of the Klingon ships less skewed than usual (even so, most of the cadets would have failed the test). When the instructors feared something was wrong and paid more attention, the second cheating programming would come into play, which would make something as subtle, as the Klingons' reactions not as perfect as they should have been (again, most cadets may have failed this test as well). because a lot of skill was still needed in command). And in the third time, with the instructors collating all the data, is when Kirk would use the third variant of his cheat, which was really to recognize that he had cheated, which was that the Klingons recognized him as a warrior on a par with themselves, because after all (from a certain point of view) he had overcome that scenario twice. Maybe not at 100% of the potential of it, but at a fairly high percentage of it, in each of the two previous attempts. Otherwise, if Kirk had simply dedicated himself to repeating the same trap three times, possibly the second time he would have been expelled, but expelled from the academy itself (especially with the recognition, which is already a declaration of having cheated). However, Cadet Kirk, not only worked several ways to solve the scenario, but also in each of the first two, he achieved an unlikely result even with each of the cheats. Which already enabled the "recognition" that as a "warrior" if he was exceptional, since very few cadets had passed one or another test despite having cheated. Even greater merit to have passed it from the two previous forms. In addition, except for the third, the previous two had to be subtle, so much so that they had to be almost impossible, but with that almost open, because otherwise, they would have expelled him in the first one that cheated and that would have been without complications, that he had cheated in a crude way. Because otherwise, they would have expelled him in the first one that cheated and that he had seen without complications, that he had cheated in a crude way. And for that know-how and for that prepared loophole, they even allowed him to give himself the "invincible stage" three times, when the third is simply a joke (something that has its point of irony, because really said scenario is a "joke" to see the character of the cadets).

[@STEPHENDANERD]

Remember what happened with the enterprise C, a noble last stand that made the Klingons respect the federation, if they'd seen Scotty pull this off they'd have wrote Scotty into their great songs as a Human to rival Kahless himself.

[@merafirewing6591]

Could you do a breakdown of when Archer encountered such a situation shortly before the Earth-Romulan War began?

[@franksmedley7372]

Hello RS I used to write for a fan group, loosely based upon Star Trek (We had all the usual things, but no Kirk, Spock, etc, and no Federation). While training cadets, there comes a time when they face a 'no win scenario', but in my story, the cadets are sent to a planet named: NS Alpha. In Real Life, the cadets are moved to a special sick bay during their sleep cycle, and hooked up to a full sensory illusion system. To them, they were shipped off to a planet and beamed down after being told that this was a test for survival. The cadets are competing to be the 'sole survivor' of the planet. Unknown to them, the scenario is 'tilted', in that ANY harm to any cadet will be lethal. Either immediately (like a 'locked' Phaser actually firing at full overload), or eventually (a small cut caused by a thorny bush becomes infected and kills them in hours). The objective is not to survive, but to deal with waking up after having 'died'. And how that 'death' affected them. This is a much less technologically difficult way of dealing 'death' to the cadets, and their first taste of a situation where they cannot win, but have no knowledge that the scenario is unwinnable. Before this, all scenarios had, at least one solution, or more. So, this is a 'test' where there is no 'right' answer. One where cadet must face the fact that they may die in their service to their star nation. And, the first time that there is NO solution other than dying. In my story, many 'die' in various manners, and only one wakes up without screaming. This was because his people use such technology to learn roles for complex acting jobs in their entertainment industry. So, he recognized the initial 'data download' of the scenario as data for a role to play, and what that role entailed. I added this into the story to 'prove' to my fellow writers that NO story idea is without 'holes' that can be exploited. My attempt to give a 'heads up!' to my fellow writers to 'up their game' when writing. To actually think about the characters, and what they are going through, personally, spiritually, professionally, etc... and take that into account when writing.

[@Decrepit_biker]

Scotty is a legend!

[@Sephiroth144]

Ah, lad, he's more than that... He's a miracle worker.

[@SirCraigius]

I would say Sulu's decision was a winning one, even if it wasn't the most humanitarian option. He chose to follow policy to the letter, refusing to risk triggering an interstellar war in order to attempt the rescue of a few hundred people. He literally put the needs of the many against the needs of the few. I'm presuming since he never entered the neutral zone that means the ship never came under attack by the Klingons? Which means his ship survived, although the rescue mission would be considered a failure.

[@Th0ughtf0rce]

400 crew onboard a Connie. Less than 381 on the Kobayashi Maru. A typical Vulcan captain would have taken 0.1 second to make that decision.

[@Katzenkotze85]

Kobayashi Maru - translated from Klingon - it is a good day to die! 😅

[@tba113]

It's been attributed to a lot of different people, and it's rephrased several different ways, but a widespread military maxim is along the lines of "If you're not cheating, you're not trying".