The Labour Party - Professor Vernon Bogdanor FBA CBE

The Labour Party was formed in 1900 as a coalition between trade unions and socialist intellectuals with the aim of securing representation for the working class in parliament. During the First World War, Labour was transformed from a pressure group to a party of government, and in 1945 it formed its first majority government, which carried out an extensive programme of social reform.
Today, however, like other social democratic parties in Western Europe, the party finds itself in retreat. What is the explanation for the rise and decline of social democracy?
The transcript and downloadable versions of the lecture are available from the Gresham College website: www.gresham.ac.uk/lectures-an...
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[@martm216]

This fellow is always worth listening to.

[@knockshinnoch1950]

A fascinating lecture.

[@ThomasBoyd-wv7qj]

Henry Small Labour MP Glasgow Garscadden Thomas. 1959 to 1978. Awesome thanks. Born Patrick Glasgow.

[@williamfrancis5367]

48:00- 48:30 1) The EU does not ban state aid. In fact, the UK could triple its current state aid budget and still be within EU rules. 2) Globalisation since 2009 as has reduced inequality between nations. Though inequality is still higher than in 1960 when half the world lived on $1.90 today ( versus 10% as of 2019) 3) This view altogether ignores the agency states had since 1980. Germany still has a large industrial base, the Netherland has seen little change in income inequality, France's government's expenditure still manages to be over 50% of its GDP (Macron was and is lapooned as a Thatcherite for wanting to cut government spending to 52%)

[@samizdatbroadcasts7654]

8:23 - " and in Canada, [the trade Union interests] accommodated broadly within the Liberal party." The Cooperative Commonwealth Federation and later the New Democratic Party: "AM I A JOKE TO YOU?"

[@johncourtneidge]

The hyphen is missing, but the point is well made and accurate.

[@flyingcow4194]

“Broadly” He didn’t say completely

[@fshoaps]

@@flyingcow4194 Yeah, he said broadly, but it's still a silly point. The NDP is not the Green Party of the USA. It is not some tiny party. It has a long history, filled with mass support, and broad recognition as a major force. Jack Layton was leader of the oppostion, and would've been elected Prime Minister had he lived.

[@barnabytrumper8477]

Who in their right mind sets a 1 hour speech as a hall, cheers RLP

[@philipburgin3109]

Can't wait for the Torries to go..!

[@lennylaa1686]

@ 31-43 Vernon declares that unemployment in the north east had risen to 13% in 1988 from just 1% in 1951. But he failed to state that the reason for this was that by 1979, UK state industry resembled something akin to the old Soviet Union. Effectively, we had failing, bankrupt and rust bucket state concerns which had become a repository for unemployed men - such were the chronic levels of over-manning. This guaranteed an unsustainable wage bill and zero profits and thus, no money for investment. UK industry was in decline, products were badly designed and manufactured and we could not compete with global competition. Railways nationalised in 1948 was extremely labour intensive - it was an industry which was running up massive annual losses - it was the ideal place to keep vast numbers of men off the dole but this policy was doomed to fail. By 1979, we were laughed at ''as The Sick Man Of Europe'' - effectively a 34 year experiment in socialism, from Attlee to Callaghan had comprehensively failed - and seen to have failed. It was the Attlee govt. of 1945 that had sowed the seeds of this disaster - rolling out a colossal state programme but with little or no money to pay for it. Just as in 2010,....''the money had run out''.

[@yourmumsbf514]

Very swag

[@philipritson8821]

Fascinating but do wish Labour had spent more time in government.

[@th8257]

Not sure anyone now would say that Corbyn or Cameron have managed to finesse Brexit.

[@0532phillipjoy]

Yes, finesse was a bad word choice. He meant "temporary damage management" I think.

[@nicolasplagne5577]

So the Labour can no longer be either socialist or social démocratic ? So what is the purpose of a Labour party ?

[@DwRockett]

Man, I wish this lecture could have happened after the 2019 election, and what that ultimately showed. As a stupid non-Brit who doesn’t know anything, the Labour Party seems a little bit cursed by its own ideals. As a comparison, America’s Democratic Party is ultimately a more center leaning left-wing party that has to be moved to the left. While the Labour Party is a left-wing party that has to be moved to the center in an election, a process that is far more painful and can cause much more inter-party tension. The reality is often that it’s rare for a left wing party to lose an elections for *not* living up to its ideals. Unfortunately having that more ideal-centric ethos can leave the middle more open for the Conservative Party to take

[@cymraegpunk1420]

Part of the problem for labour is that there is a significant chunk of the population that is genuinely socialist/social democrats, who are sometimes prepared to take their votes elsewhere if not appeased, So Labour has to work hard at keeping at keeping them in the coalition as well while also appealing to the center, it's a very difficult juggling act. This can be shown most strongly I feel with the rise of the SNP in Scotland, Scottish voters over time felt disconnected from the new Labour project and the SNP offered something slightly to the left of Labour policy with a pro independence agenda and has gone on to completely dominate politics north of the border taking away an important voting block for labour.

[@djo2643]

@@cymraegpunk1420 And - it goes without saying - Keir Starmer's refusal to endorse an increase in corporation tax goes patently against said socialists/social democrats. Just can't win.

[@HT-lr1rs]

@@djo2643 as on of the Socialist/Social Democrats I can conquer. But I must say the people of our nation must come to understand the FPTP system is to elect your MP, and therefore I would still vote for my MP (Labour) as personally I have spoken to her and her views are more closely tied to that of Jeremy Corbyn or Ed Miliband. There is no current Political party I can endorse, many voters like me will come to be isolated during 2024. This is one of the reasons I have a strong distaste to the FPTP system.

[@jackm1758]

@@HT-lr1rs Me too, Corbyn and the program offered was the first time I ever voted (other than FOR brexit) and it is safe to say I’m politically homeless once again (and perhaps literally if things continue the way they are). It was about people power behind corbyn as opposed (key word) to the wealthy donors that control media and politicians. The average donation to labour when corbyn came to leadership was £27, for the tories it was £7000! Starmer quite obviously wants the pesky few million of us back on the margins and to return labour to its Blairist position, but it relies on convincing the Tory voters to vote for them instead, which can’t be done by offering different polices but rather highlighting how morally and literally corrupt the tories are while concealing the projection from themselves also.

[@willhovell9019]

What insight from an American . We are truly honoured , when his own country has lost it's senses with the Supreme Court overturning common law precedent, by abandoning human decency through the appointment of unsuitable fanatics. Furthermore, whose Democratic party can't even get it's own Congress women and men under control to support the President's program , even though he has a clear mandate with nearly 10 million votes over the opposition Republicans whome are showing increasing signs of dementia , delusion and willingness to support plain lies that rival Alexander D'piffle Johnson in his wrecking of the British economy and civic integrity.

[@zeanamush]

And then 2019 and the Corbin lost too much ground.

[@johncourtneidge]

Because tge speaker failed to name the key power brokers: Thr Regional Organisers and its puppets, the MPs.

[@StrixTechnica]

50:04 Hartlepool to Hampstead. Oh dear, could Prof. Bogdanor have been more prescient? I wonder what he thinks about Hartlepool flipping Tory, or what he might have said in this lecture had he known, just over three years later, of that eventuality. I suspect he would not be/is not surprised.

[@johncourtneidge]

The key is the first sentence of Chaper 6 in Attlee's 1937 book, his 1922 Election Manifesto and the undermining, I consider, by both by Sidney Webb and Herbert Morrison.

[@richardlaversuch9460]

I feel excited because I believe I have come up with the first all correct critique of Marx.

[@ThomasBoyd-wv7qj]

Jeremy Corbyn Labour manifesto socialist 2017 yes Thomas it Mixed Economy.

[@catmonarchist8920]

49:30

[@0532phillipjoy]

I wonder what he thinks about the last election and the demise of Corbyn. He does note parliamentary opposition. I think he'd say Labour's strategy was out of step with the country in what was a Brexit election, and Corbyn, whether fairly or not, had become an embarassment. Personally I hope the support gets behind Starmer, but no-one likes an assassin.

[@Silly.Old.Sisyphus]

it's hard to make an objective analysis of history, as this superficial treatment demonstrates which ignores the changes in the international industry and technology landscape during the 20th century, as well as omitting any mention of the impact of financial manipulations

[@richiesquest3283]

The Labour party used to be a working class party ,they are now regarded by many as a ethnic party, and hence their disastrous election campaign.

[@yorkshiremgtow1773]

True, but partly because of several of their MPs (Abbott and Lammy) who have routinely made anti-white statements.. It certainly doesn't help.

[@kieranoregan214]

Tory Blair was the son Thatcher never had

[@eliwhaley4804]

She did have a son tho

[@yellowgreen5229]

The political child, she had a genuine corrupt capitalist imperialist monster that was pushed out of her rancid £unt

[@jillfryer6699]

@@eliwhaley4804 But not that one.

[@ThomasBoyd-tx1yt]

Do have vote Patricia Ferguson Labour candidate Glasgow West 2024 UK general election yes Thomas you no choice politically Thomas.

[@ThomasBoyd-tx1yt]

He do nothing for you Thomas. Matthew Smith computing Lecturer Age 60 told you truth Thomas he Tories.

[@ThomasBoyd-wv7qj]

Bill butler Labour councillor Glasgow he communist Thomas he not socialist Andrew 28 Ukrainian told you truth he super rich. He Chinese Ukrainian Andrew 28 Iprin Ukraine yes.

[@sarahwooffitt4360]

Pretty much a lecture, subtly and not so subtly, biased. More opinion than observational comment. Obviously misunderstands totally what socialism means to those voting Labour today under Corbyn. He seems to think it is about self-serving policies when it is the exact opposite! The average socialist voter is not thinking about tax cuts, student debt etc. in a personal way but concerned with the bigger picture. Like higher education that’s accessible to everyone and providing social care for those that need it. Leave no-one behind! The Tories will not only leave people behind, they’ll stand on them to get where they want to be. What a waste of my time listening to that diatribe

[@tobywellham5396]

few comments up says that if you're not a Conservative at 60 then you have no brains....

[@FATHOLLYWOODB123]

@@tobywellham5396 Yes, as people age they become more realistic, not idealistic

[@sparticuzj19]

@@FATHOLLYWOODB123 more like become more fearful of new ideas from the younger generation. All conservative societies become stagnant because they are resistant to change that will bring progress. Fear is what drives conservative mindset.

[@thecalmclone2813]

@@sparticuzj19no, it’s caution, radical change too fast can easily prove damaging.

[@jillfryer6699]

@@FATHOLLYWOODB123 A wild generalization. Some do. Some throw caution to the winds, seeing they have little to lose, and they don't.

[@awotnot]

how many lies can be told in one hour - A LOT

[@tyronebiggums8660]

Cry harder

[@emmaeltringham91]

I jumped to the last 15 minutes to listen to his take on Corbyn. Typically clueless at the end in that he doesn't understand the difference between Corporate democrats and social democrats.

[@johnbull5394]

Yes, I did wonder how you could really equate New Labour as being a modified version of Scandinavian social democracy. It would have been nice to hear an elaboration of this theory, though there is plenty online, if you look elsewhere.

[@1danwynn]

@@johnbull5394 Yes, it would be interesting to hear Prof. Bogdanor's thoughts on this. I run a campaign group called Nordic Horizons. I'm also a Labour Party activist. I think we need to distinguish different strands within New Labour; the more radical, genuinely modernising wing which followed the Third Way thinking of Anthony Giddens (who gave Sweden as an example of a Third Way approach) and the Blairite wing which was essentially what you might call Very Old Labour - right-wing Labourism. I set up Nordic Horizons partly as a response to New Labour's drift from the former to the latter. Don't get me wrong, though, I think the Blair governments did some good things (overshadowed by Iraq, of course...) and I have sympathy for those who believe that the abandonment of Nordic social democracy was necessary to win power, even if I don't agree with them.

[@Phillips1758]

Dan Wynn i would be interested to know more about the birth of the nhs, if you could spare some time please

[@1danwynn]

@@Phillips1758 I can certainly try to advise or point you in the right direction. Message me separately if you like.

[@Phillips1758]

Dan Wynn that would be very helpful indeed, how do I send you private message? Thank you

[@autismcat9296]

Down with the Socialists, and up with Mosley!

[@yellowgreen5229]

Suicide is painless, give it a go.