The Lapsed Fan: Dave Meltzer on Starrcade 97

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As part of The Lapsed Fan wrestling podcast's Starrcade Memorial Tour, the Wrestling Observer's Dave Meltzer weighed in with his recollections of each event. Here, Meltzer discusses Starrcade 1997.
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[@travismcdonald6576]

Bischoff was a mark for Hogan and Nash.

[@Aj6711]

God WCW had it and blew it

[@MattSingh1]

*Blame it on Maggot Bischoff. He never understood wrestling or wrestling fans. He now scrapes a living lying about Dave every week on his podcast with Conman Thompson.*

[@adub4ever]

The biggest pro wrestling even from my childhood was Starcade 97. I was 10 years old, and the build up to that PPV was incredible. They spent so much time building the nWo vs Sting angle, but ultimately blew it. They were lucky they had Goldberg or that would've been the end of WCW. Gotta say, back in those days WCW was far far ahead of the WWF. Had they played those storylines out correctly, they would've put WWF out of business.

[@KhronicYouth]

adub4ever yep if they used similar correct formulas that wwf used which is just logical booking wcw would have won the wars but too much bullshit

[@jessieb9384]

They were never going to beat wwf if you go back and look wcw was losing money like crazy buy paying all these guys like hogan and macho man and Bret that didn't have a lot left to give all Vince had to do was wait Vince had guys like rock and Austin coming up that were going to change the game regardless of what wcw did

[@blueblur2329]

@@jessieb9384 I agree that they were never gonna put the WWF out of business simply because the WWF was putting out a great product by 98. Vince knew pretty much what you said in that all they had to do was outlast WCW because he knew they were eventually going to be spending more money than they were bringing in once WCW ran out of godd ideas which is essentially what happened. After the NWO angle and Goldberg streak was done WCW had no other great idea after that to draw in the crowds. Therefore they couldn't make the same kind of money in 99 00 and 01 that they were making in 96 97 98. Had WCW, had anyone competent working for them the best they could do was prolong the war.

[@murraysaucedo897]

No Super Brawl 98? That one was pretty big for me and my friends back then. I remember like 10 of my friends came over so we could split the ppv to the point it was $3 a piece lol.

[@adub4ever]

Murray Saucedo yeah absolutely Superbrawl 98. Bigger than Wrestlemania 14 for me as a WCW fan. It’s a shame they screwed up the Hogan-Sting fued so badly. I can’t even remember what happened at that show. Didn’t sting beat Hogan in a rematch at Superbrawl 98?

[@patjames387]

Hogan would never lie.

[@412StepUp]

The only thing that is true about Hogan is that he lies.

[@irieite9666]

4:10 If I ever wrestle or box my gimmick is going to be "Tremendous" Lee Badd lol

[@weworldwide1348]

I have a better idea. How bout, "Cor Nee" It fits you to a t

[@NoelComiX]

Lololol

[@adamcraig5800]

I read Bischoff's book then made a point to find the match at Starrcade, based upon what Bischoff had said about Sting's physical appearance, and found Bischoff's criticism of Sting being out of shape when he was huge and in-shape were absolutely ridiculous. While I also found Bischoff's criticism of Sting's lack of tan equally as bemusing. He was The Crow character. Since when did the Crow have a tan. Imagine The Undertaker debuting in WWE in the early 90s as the Deadman with a tan. Absurd! Sting was exactly what he was supposed to be, a buffed up version of The Crow. Bischoff's criticism was simply designed to deflect from the fact that Hogan refused to do the job. He wouldn't get out of the way. Thus, he decided (and seemingly behind Bischoff's back) to screw Sting and the business. The result of him ensuring that he remained the top guy inevitably ensured that WCW went down. That was the turning point.

[@bberger2k10]

Adam Craig bischoff wouldn't come out and say the truth but sting was messed up on pills and this is around the time he found God

[@tomasnichols4356]

Adam Craig I've never been Anti-Bischoff, but you're right on it here. Sting looked great. Blaming the match on Sting's physique and complexion was not the smartest thing Bischoff could have said.

[@WeednDBZ]

Adam Craig i thoung Sting was out of shape. He was winded after one drop kick. Also, Sting was on pills and drinking all the time. Im sure nobody wanted to mention it and put Sting in a bad light.

[@KhronicYouth]

Sting should have went over clean and had a one year title reign this was the beginning of the end . Wwf always put over their top face sting was the austin of wcw in the sense that he was the hottest face he had total momentum hogans creative control bs and bischoffs lack of experience fucked it all up

[@Tom-wp7gg]

Even Meltzer says that Sting didn't look to be in good shape for this match. The tan thing is BS but Sting showed up sucking wind after the first minute and didn't look like he was in ring shape - of course 18 months out of the ring might do that but Steve Borden is still supposed to be a professional and is collecting paychecks. The other thing is Sting had a lot of personal demons around this time which probably played into why he didn't look and be able to play the part of being the top babyface. This entire match there is blame to go around on all 4 participants. Patrick for not doing the fast count. Hogan for likely playing politics. Sting for not showing up and looking like he belonged or not kicking out of the leg drop for that matter. Bischoff for not doing his best to make sure a year and a half long angle wasn't flushed down the toilet in 10 minutes.

[@anthonyaman1488]

Sting and Savage's WCW careers in a nutshell - Hogan fucked it up.

[@zlinedavid]

Hart: Fucked by Hogan. Sting: Fucked by Hogan. Page: Fucked by Hogan. Misterio: Fucked by Hogan. Jericho: Fucked by Hogan. Hell, to an extent, Goldberg: Fucked by Hogan. Pretty much anyone not named Hall or Nash: Fucked by Hogan.

[@905JimRaynor]

great job outlining all the screwups in WCW at the very end of '97 and throughout '98.

[@WRESTLINGWRITESITSELF]

40YEARS OF WRESTLEMANIA!!!

[@MrJonHimself]

I know im not likely to get an answer here but does anyone know what Jack(the host) is doing these days? Always loved his work here and with Sherdog.

[@genxtasy9914]

wait, what happened with Hogan and Bret in Toronto?

[@BarbaPamino]

The only faux screw job that would have made sense would be Hogan putting Sting in the Scorpion and Patrick calling it a tap out. Then have Bret Hart come out.

[@ara1156]

It seems when people talk about the downfall of the nWo angle (and subsequently the WCW as a company), like on the nWo documentaries, they gloss over the Wolfpac angle, and just act as if it sucked. I believe all that was mentioned about the Wolfpac on the WWE documentary was "Ot was kinda like now all of a sudden your little sister wants to be nWo, so you're like oh yea you can be nWo Wolfpac..." To my recollection, the Wolfpac was over with the audience big time, they were the top baby faces, selling a lot of merchandise, getting huge pops. They should have built up that nWo split better into a major final Hollywood vs Wolfpac PPV, ending with Hogan vs Nash, and that would be the end of nWo

[@Azreal231916]

A RA the wolfpac is like Batman Forever. It was fine but it gets lumped in with sh*t unfairly

[@KhronicYouth]

Yah but hogan was holding back wolfpac hogan and bischoffs the one that made hall turn on nash and hogan didnt want anything to do with a nwo vs wolfpac or nash angle hogan was in it all for himself

[@adamruiz7940]

Yeah but then where do you go from there? You have an angle where one nWo faction beats another but then you still have an nWo unless it's Nash just re-branding them as The Wolfpac and ditching the nWo moniker

[@blueblur2329]

NWO Wolfpac was simply hot because they had the NWO brand behind them and had top stars like Sting Macho and Luger with them. But they didn't actually do anything besides come out every week salute the crowd and then leave. DX formed around the same time and was doing epic things like invading WCW or parodying the Nation. Wolfpac didn't do anything memorable. The only thing the Wolfpac did was position Nash to be a top star in the company by taking advantage of a hot brand and surrounding himself with top stars and hip talent like Konan.

[@blueblur2329]

@@adamruiz7940 Then you have the winner of the bout go up against the hottest face in the company Goldberg. Hogan's the bigger draw so Hogan beats Nash then loses to Goldberg.

[@412StepUp]

Sting should have tanned more!

[@henrikschmidt3964]

I think calling Sting naive is absolutely fair. He was made to look like such a tool in this match.

[@johnnyskinwalker4095]

I thought Sting was pretty buff at Starrcade 97. What was Hogan talking about.

[@justEvan63]

Johnny Skinwalker yeah exactly lol he was ripped as hell. Just an excuse to make sure a guy who was getting over didnt get bigger than Hogan. Petty nonsense similar to alot of what you see from HHH and vince these days..

[@jessieb9384]

@@justEvan63 You're crazy go back and look at 1994/95 sting compared to this match in 97 sting himself has even said he was in bad shape at the time and that he had a lot of bad things going on in his personal life he was pale and flabby at starcade I'm not saying that was an excuse for the finish but Eric didn't know where sting was at in his head the time and knew what he had in hogan

[@jessieb9384]

@@justEvan63 And hhh? He's done nothing but build a brand in nxt that arguably the best in wrestling at this time hunter has a great mind for the business and what the fans like currently which shows with him bringing in big name Indy guys like balor and Owens and Adam Cole without hunter you don't get these guys or nxt

[@KobaAM]

It was a bullshit reason to not be beaten totally clean like he unquestionably should have been, but Hogans a selfish cunt belt mark so we got what happened.

[@dazeomg]

Jessie B I mean for a gimmick after the crow I wouldn’t expect sting to be tan considering his character hides in the shadows and in darkness.

[@sleazyfellow]

Sting should of went over clean, only to be screwed over shortly thereafter, and then PPV matches against the nWo until he gets back to Hogan again and then nWo disbands. This was bischoff being hogans ball washer.

[@goodplenty534]

The match shouldve been for the company. Disband the NWO and get Bret in a program with Sting, get the belt off him and have Bret go with Hogan. You also have a goldmine in Goldberg.

[@rODIUMuk]

WCW was the greatest

[@richardtheconquerer]

Anyone know of where Nick Patrick admitted Hogan told him not to do the count fast? I've seen a shoot interview with him and he pretends to not even remember Starrcade 97 which is absurd

[@theungreatkahli]

richardtheconquerer totally

[@RetepAdam]

It’s funny how they set it up to be a mock screwjob so Bret could save the day, but then Sting ended up actually getting screwed.

[@Sam1c9797]

hogan is fond of a good lie

[@justinorel6592]

do a shot every time Meltzer says "ya know"

[@wecoolwecoolbounce5191]

..I would be dead of alcohol poisoning within 3 minutes...

[@horhay3608]

I don't think Sting was behind Goldberg. He's the only who beat Goldberg (unofficially) clean. It was on Nitro 1998.

[@blueblur2329]

Sting was winning but the match got interrupted like it always did in WCW back then.

[@johnthomas5314]

@@blueblur2329 yeah the run-ins/lack of clean finishes in main events was really annoying in WCW. They had all this talent for a few years, but you could tell they never knew how to book the outcomes properly.

[@markmenning1804]

I agree after the nwo died out wcw did not have anything.

[@rODIUMuk]

Wow was the greatest

[@azapro911]

Even the fast count idea made Sting's 15 month buildup look weak, have the Outsiders interfere only for Bret Hart (making his debut at THAT moment and not before) chase Hall and Nash away with a lead pipe (explaining the following night that he wants to wreak havoc upon HBK's Kliq buddies) followed by Sting winning with the Scorpion Death Drop (thereby covering off any Hogan bitch fits regarding submissions). That pay-per-view should have only ever ended with a conclusive Sting victory, I don't care how much ballast he was carrying.

[@ara1156]

Yes. That Bischoff/Zybsko match was bullshit anyway. It should've been the most epic back and forth main event WCW ever tried to put on. Finish it like you said, with the Outsiders coming out and trying to pull a Screwjob, then Hart makes his first appearance, in full Bret Hart gear, and help Sting to get a clean victory over Hogan. Then build up a Hart feud with Nash and Hall and eventually Hogan, to play up off the Michaels heat. It's not rocket science

[@tomasnichols4356]

azapro911 Any rebooking of the angle needs to keep in mind that you have to protect both Hogan and Sting, and Hogan especially. You have to think "what would Hogan sign off on?" And maybe that isn't how it should be, but that's how it is. I would change a few things in the build up. And Hogan probably would not have liked it, lol. But I would have immediately brought Bret into the nWo, then booked a cage match at Starrcade between Hogan and Sting to account for the inevitability of outside interference. You gotta book Starrcade like Wrestlemania here and turn the cliches on their head. So after a deadlocked stalemate in the ring between Sting and Hogan, both guys looking strong, you do spots with the nWo trying to get over the cage, etc., and then have Bret, who was a newly minted member, come up through the ring with a baseball bat in all the chaos. Hogan expects him to hit Sting with it and secure the win for Hogan and the nWo, but in a power play Bret breaks the bat over Hogan's head. This gives the win to Sting (Hogan was never gonna lose clean, get that thought out of your head). Hall and Nash are in on this as a way to stab Hogan in the back and the three of them, Bret, Hall, and Nash, (can't remember if Syxx was there at this point), are then the newest incarnation of the nWo. Sting has the belt, Hogan has 3 new enemies, the nWo isn't too big for it's britches, etc., but hindsight is 20/20...

[@thumbsofgod]

Tomas Nichols That's a pretty good idea!

[@azapro911]

Tomas Nichols Of course Hogan wasn't going to lose clean, hence the Outsiders' interference. But one thing Bischoff should have made absolutely crystal clear to Hogan is that he is not going to have Sting down for any form of three count, not even a fast one. The exact level of run-in tomfoolery can be played around with, frankly nWo presence is inevitable in that scenario anyway, but Sting MUST come out looking like the ultimate winner, he has to. I'm not feeling Bret as part of the nWo to be honest, that sounds like exactly the sort of thing which would make him feel very uncomfortable within the company. He's a wrestling traditionalist and it makes sense for him to be part of the 'old school' in the form of WCW/JCP/NWA. I'd take Hogan off TV for one of his usual sabbaticals, have Bret and Sting feud with Nash and Hall initially until Hogan returns in March and costs, say, Nash the WCW title at Uncensored (blaming his former cohorts for losing the title, the demise of the nWo etc.) which then leads to a six month feud between a much more compact Wolfpac (Nash, Hall and Syxx) vs. Hollywood Elite (Hogan, Savage and Ed Leslie, who quite frankly I really liked as The Disciple) and culminates with a final no DQ match between Nash and Hogan at Halloween Havoc where Nash wins (Hogan can pin Nash in a War Games match at Fall Brawl to keep him happy). During the summer Hogan and Bret can also have a PPV feud. That's my own idea anyway.

[@azapro911]

A RA Almost completely agree, with the small exception of Bret Hart coming out in his wrestling gear. Just doesn't seem right for a guy who isn't actually wrestling for the company yet, I'm happy to keep him in his street clothes for this.

[@markmenning1804]

Did anybody think Wwe would win the war at this time?

[@timothymorris4571]

This PPV was the first in a series of bullets that would kill wcw. Hogans selfishness ruining an angle that had engrossed everyone for over a year was unforgivable. This should have been the night when wcw won all the matches, but it was booked ass backwards.

[@markmenning1804]

I heard Bischoff say they did this sting did not look tan and muscular

[@tapacirerns5040]

Of course nWo branded show could have worked but they had to get to that point by having the original nWo and The Wolfpac feuding and then transit into face and heel separation by dropping factions.

[@blueblur2329]

That could have worked if those factions actually faced each other

[@justEvan63]

For a guy who changed the business and made the wwf the #1 wrestling company in the world and than wcw for a short period in my opinion Hogan has done more negative than positive for wrestling.

[@timothymorris4571]

Hogan never passed the torch to anyone, imo. He lost belts, but never gave anyone his spot at the top of the card. When Warrior was wwf champion in 1990, all the focus was on Hogans feud with Earthquake. Hogan pulled the exact same trick when Goldberg was wcw champ, headlining the ppv's working tag matches with Dennis Rodman and the Jay Leno tag matches.

[@day-me-inmoodley3283]

Only wcw could ruin the biggest moment in the company, with such an amateur finish

[@freezhollywood]

soon as he beat Hogan be became regular Sting again..i know u cant be silent forever but once that angle ended he just became one of the guys..then joining the Wolfpac which was cool as a kid but watching the stuff on the network he looks terrible lol

[@blueblur2329]

Yep should have never been in the NWO. WCW just didn't know how to book or create stories. They just stumbled onto two hot angles in the NWO and Goldberg streak and then rode them to the wheels fell off. Overall they were pretty simplistic stories and once they were done they couldn't come up with anything else. If they knew how to book correctly they could have kept Sting hot without him having to talk or say minimal words at best. Kane didn't talk much either but the WWF still kept him hot despite that.

[@TrueGritProductions]

Nash no-showed a Houston show in late 99. They kept showing him like he was on the way to the Astrodome. That was when we realized WCW was done. Worst wrestling event ever. I've seen non-televised WWE house shows that were better.

[@ajk]

Last Nitro of the year? December 27?

[@cosborne06]

It takes Dave 10 rabbit trails to make 1 point. Every single time he talks haha. It's like he thinks everything he says will be part of his news articles.