The Last Dagger vs Tamer, Your "Meta" Is Wrong! | The First Descendant

[@DodRegnbue]

Before someone says it. I AM NOT SAYING THE LAST DAGGER IS META! I am saying, Tamer cannot be Meta simply because The Last Dager beats it in the vast majority of situations.

[@Wolfpaxrunning]

It never beats anything on a crit Enzo, it's mag is too small to make use of the 15% additive WP and 29% additive crit.

[@DodRegnbue]

@@Wolfpaxrunning Enzo + Tamer still loses to Valby + TLD. You closed the gap by 7%, have a cookie.

[@tenuith]

@@Wolfpaxrunning If you want to run a crit Enzo just farm the Enduring Legacy mate, it's already been beastly on him, even before it was buffed in the most recent patch. Let the Tamer go, it served its purpose of being an excellent entry level weapon.

[@Wolfpaxrunning]

@@tenuith I specifically say the enduring legacy is better.

[@Turbulance16]

LMG goes BRR you wouldn't understand. lol.

[@MEATOGRE]

The mathematically inept saw a big number next to “DPS” and boy, did they run with it.

[@EcchiRevenge]

are you sure the youtuber's calculations are right? For reference, on a standard non-crit hit with tamer, a 50%(I added up a max level weak point sight to a low level have aiming; no other mods or relevant substat) increase to weak spot dmg got me around 30% increase to damage per shot when tested against hard mode devourer shoulder. His weakspot dps looks funky.

[@Darklordiban7]

Tamer is the best early game weapon. It has lot of base damage, a big mag, it shoots fast, it has good falloff range, and everyone picks one up casually clearing the story. The high base covers for the lack of additional multipliers(crit, weakpoint)/low mod investment, the falloff range covers for how bad the new player's positioning/spacing is, the big mag means you don't have to time your reloads as good, and the high fire rate will ensure the player WANTS to shoot where too many new players don't shoot their gun enough.

[@slip899]

Na Thundercage is the best early game wep

[@DodRegnbue]

You get Thunder Cage earlier and it come with 2 or 3 crystal pre installed. Allowing for a higher DPS build than Tamer.

[@masterofthedeathwing2839]

tamer drops at white knight gulch, the last dagger drops from echo swamp. so the last dagger is bit more grindy, but you can get it earlier

[@itsjustteebee203]

I don’t think people are looking at spreadsheets and saying “tamer meta” they’re basing it off it being easy to get, and it doing well in colossus fights. And when everything in the game other than a colossus can be cleared by a bunny doing circles (and some colossus too) there’s really only 1 meta people are gonna care about.

[@DodRegnbue]

"Easy to Get" is not Meta. "Doing Well" is not Meta.

[@primulas]

100%. Tamer isn’t the best gun in the game but it is an easy to obtain and upgrade gun that can carry someone through every boss fight in the game, which is the only content in the game that stalls progression.

[@itsjustteebee203]

@@DodRegnbue there’s a 20 hour meta and a 200 hour meta, the tools available will change the more you play, and therefore so will your meta

[@mirasolovklose3888]

@@DodRegnbue Don't most game companies define META (not definition but rather by the nerfs/adjustments they do) to be most used weapons?

[@Bustaperizm]

I don't believe people are thinking that deeply about it.

[@tonarinookami]

I know this is a month old but I found the Last Dagger about three days ago when looking at the ultimate weapons trying to decide on what to grind, I don't like following the "meta" all the time, and saw this dropped from Normal and was why not. After completing one of these weapons, and giving it just two mods, the increase attack ones, I am now working on getting it fully built so I can test it on my Valby. I believe a lot of people have over looked it just because it is a pistol and not a SMG, MG, or AR. Also Valby is the more well known Descendat that gives weapons a bonus but I believe there might be a few others that could make it work as well. Lepic with Power Unit Change - Increases Firearm ATK over Skill Power Gley with Predator Instinct - Increases Firearm ATK over time, matches the Last Dagger's ability well Blair with Backdraft - Increasing both Firearm ATK and Weak Point Damage Luna with Aggressive Melody - Increasing Firearm Damage and Weak Point Damage Hailey being Hailey has taken the top "gun descendant" in the game at ths time. Even Enzo can boost this weapon up. All these descendants also increase all Weapons damage but this weapon shouldn't be overlooked just because it is a pistol.

[@loganharvey8086]

Tamer was an excellent crutch for a few boss fights before i had invested in any weapons. It even got a catalyst from me. I found the thunder cage much more useful than the tamer to invest in. The movement speed and add clear from TC just made the tamer feel worse for 99% of things. I think the tamer love will die down as people start exploring other weapons more but as a super low investment stop gap people will always bring it up

[@Walt_Chocolate]

Maybe it's me, but I'm starting to think some people's idea of fun is thinking they're smart. It's odd that some people really just want to engage in an argument without the purpose of learning. And yeah, I'm surprised "the tamer" is overrated.

[@EcchiRevenge]

tamer isn't overrated; the youtuber did math wrong. (hint: weakspot dps)

[@xspindrift8737]

That's his stick..and it gets old.

[@matthewgill2695]

People: Tamer is Meta. Dod: Why? People: Cause someone else said so Dod: People: You wrong. Dod: Why? People: Cuase someone else said it's meta bro! Dod:

[@DodRegnbue]

[@McGuns17]

🤣

[@jussikankaansydan5645]

Nice Video mate, good to see some real calculations, and them to be explained!

[@Rizl-876]

14:18 Ok I'm subscribed, this is my 2nd video and I like your attitude

[@christopherallmand9407]

I needed the Tamer as soon as I found it. I'm glad I decided not to invest in it. I upgraded Thunder Cage first, and that allowed me to get an Enduring Legacy, which let me get another Enduring Legacy. Now I can get everything. The Tamer can help you get your first real gun right after normal mode. Tamer is a mediocre transition weapon at best, best of the purples for Colossus. But investing in the Tamer is a throw away. My low forma Descendants are just platforms for Thunder Cage or Enduring Legacy or Greg's Reversed Fate now. I also maxed out a Piercing Light but I don't know why, it works with Sharen speeding up outpost farms sometimes. Ultimate Gley feels awful in Intercepts compared to Lepic or Enzo or Viessa. I love Enzo for everything, especially the selfish build with Sigvore's Proof. While I didn't like Gley in Colossus fights, I do like Gley better than Bunny for everything else. Because when the Bunnies drop like flies, Gley can shoot her way out with a Greg's Reversed Fate and an Enduring Legacy by feeding on enemy life force like a vampire mommy. My Ultimate Valby is squishy because she has all gold roll farming external components, but that's ok because she is for gold/Keiper/modules/reactors/consumables/ and vault keys. My Valby is my farmer. If Ultimate Bunny drops for me I might forma a couple slots so I can have a decent speed runner. Pistols are surprisingly good. Using a light machine gun with Viessa was hard because I took so much extra damage. Getting the Thunder Cage made me realize how the mobility issue was making Viessa face tank so much damage instead of fleeting around like an ice mage. I wish I had used that purple cold pistol on my first play through. Now I'm upgrading Clairvoyance to find out if its any good. LMG's are for sturdy face tankers like Gley or Enzo who have lots of sustain. Squishy Descendants absorb far less damage by moving faster. Taking less damage directly equates to more uptime dealing more damage. So next I want to unlock and upgrade the elite pistols to try on my squishy characters. Maybe Gley needs a dedicated Python, or maybe Gley and Freyna can share a Python.

[@Time_To_Solo]

This was bothering me watching people with their spreadsheets too, they calculate everything IGNORING the unique abilities- Smithereens as an example gives guaranteed crits if you hit every bullet, but that isn't even taken into account. Another example of people not looking at the larger picture is people saying bionic fuel is bad on bunny- Yes, you lose movespeed, however you gain easy access to annihilation set and free up multiple module slots as you no longer require mp collector and mp cost modules.

[@GhostStalkerActual]

As a Gley main, Last Dagger is the only gun I use for non colossal content with weapon stack yellow mod and her weapon damage transcendent mod. Built gun for crit damage because guaranteed crit hit at full stack

[@j0k3r2k]

I dont understand why you are so obsessed with proving Tamer is just ok. The only people that say its the best weapon are AI junk youtubers with 0 game knowledge and bad players. What the Tamer is the best weapon for is that its probably the best weapon in the game with zero investment, aka no Catalyst, no Activator and it also is free as a 50% quest reward from multiple quests. Its also a good enough weapon that you can fully Catalyst and Activate it and have a weapon that is good enough for all the content in the game (might be just outside the top 10 weapons in the game fully invested, might be much lower who cares beyond the top 3-5), this makes it the perfect weapon for people who dont want to invest time and effort into a game that is all about putting in time and effort, aka baddies which makes it the perfect weapon to make shitty youtube videos about how its the best thing since sliced bread.

[@bloody4558]

Good point, but you need to remember that there are some people who wish to play the game more seriously and are bad at math, so when they get bombarded with "Tamer is the best " videos they will end up learning things wrong.

[@Big_pancake73]

@@bloody4558 but if it still kills all boss and stuff in the game...are they building wrong.....yes you can always build and make stuff better....anyway

[@bloody4558]

@@Big_pancake73 The issue is that machine guns aren't good in all characters, they force you to move slowly and stay on attack for long. Some Descendants are squishy and die easily because of it

[@DodRegnbue]

The game gives you Thunder Cage for free, it also comes with 3 Crystals already in. With what ever you can do with Tamer with no Activator and no Crystals, you can do more with Thunder Cage. To fully activate and Energise is VASTLY more exspensive than something like Thunder Cage, 3 Catalyst more, in fact. And Thunder Cage is more than good enough for all centent in the game. The remaineder of your comment is bacially agreeing with me. . . .

[@DodRegnbue]

@@Big_pancake73 I feel like you are trying to pick a fight for the sake of picking a fight. This has nothing to do with the conversation. If you like it, and it works for you. Great. I am not saying to stop using it. I am simply saying it is not Meta, so stop calling it Meta. This is not a hard concept.

[@paulamblard3836]

You compare a low investment weapon with no conditional effect, to the opposite. If Tamer is meta, it is because it is easy to obtain good result with it.

[@DodRegnbue]

That is the point. Meta is not "easy to obtain good results".

[@bloody4558]

​@@DodRegnbuethank you for saying that. People need to drop the fallacy of "Easy is always good"

[@Jabarri74]

@@bloody4558 It's good enough. That's the whole point

[@EcchiRevenge]

​@@bloody4558 is this one of the guns you thought was better than tamer?

[@Orcafynn]

Super informative 🔥

[@Vaisukin]

I think the craziest thing is these spreadsheets could go even deeper than this too. You see me on your streams talking about elemental damage and I don’t see anyone even considering a weapons attribute status effect rate when talking about how to build a weapon, which would definitely change the meta even more given how nutty elemental damage can be, along with it gives an alternative build path and purpose for certain weapons, such as making a weapon like the piercing light an absolute beast at destroying colossus frenzy parts. Btw i tuned in to stream when you were discussing the final masterpiece and how would you say it is compared to the last dagger?

[@DodRegnbue]

Elelment is weird, if you match it perfectly each time, yes, it is of use. Quite a lot of use. Other wise it is 10.57% DPS increase, would you can match, or get more with other cards. Not including Python or Enduring Legacy in this discusion, they are silly with Toxic and Fire respectively. Masterpiece is going to have a bit of RNG added to it, though if build correctly, and understanding the UI with it, should mean there is little to worry about. From what i have tested so far, it is not far behind Last Dagger in terms of burst DPS. It is a fair bit behind in Sustained, however. At this point, I am only at unique 2 with it, so I need to get it to max before I give my full break down.

[@bloody4558]

Pretty much, there's a weapon that has nearly the same stats as Tamer but no one talk about it. The issue is that weapon has less CRIT damage, making tamer theoretically stronger, however what no one sees is that this weapon has much higher status chance and a bigger magazine. That weapon will never get visible DPS increase int he UI but it theoretically causes way more damage than Tamer because of the status effects it can proc. And it's also a machine gun

[@alcervantes2366]

@@bloody4558 What weapon is that?

[@bloody4558]

@@alcervantes2366 It's the Blue lion, the name is bigger than this though. It's nearly the same as Tamer, except that it has a bigger magazine size, higher status chance, slightly smaller base damage and slightly smaller CRIT damage. Basically it's just a variant of the Tamer. Although it has a much better design

[@EcchiRevenge]

@@bloody4558 nah you can feel lion of blue mane dps lagging behind tamer, tamer is just the least-trash purple mg. The most obvious issue is the rate of fire and base dmg. I would say you can triple the crit chance of lion of blue mane and it probably still wont beat a tamer. Btw elemental dmg doesn't scale with weakspot. is this one of the purple guns you thought was better than tamer?

[@SocialSophia]

*Do you really wanna know why everyone says tamer? It's because it has a huge magazine and high dps on screen and most importantly it can be obtained in game without hunting i agree with you though I'll probably make a few videos on viable guns*

[@DodRegnbue]

I look forward to your videos. Subbing now.

[@adrianor31]

I agree. The tamer is easy to get.

[@DodRegnbue]

@@adrianor31 So is Thunder cage that comes with 2 (or 3) crystals pre installed . . . .

[@blackkat101]

Albion Cavalry is for those with Stun in their kit. Sharen actually is a great user for this (when not sniping things) because she has a stun with her grenade. Of which you can place a really long stun by upping the duration. Allowing you to lay waste on enemies with the Albion Cavalry. Of course this doesn't help on Colossi, so don't use Albion Cavalry there.

[@DodRegnbue]

I know. It can also be used on Ajax, the issue now is, the entire weapons mechanic is tied to the cooldown of a Descendants Skill, which just feels janky to me.

[@bloody4558]

​@@DodRegnbuefully agreed. That weapon also has an abysmal amount of CRIT chance when it's mechanic is tied around Crits. It's ridiculous. Were it a normal weapon Like Tamer I could understand the bullshit. But it's an ultate weapon, by all means it should have tamer's crit stats. It wouldn't make the weapon overpowered

[@Tyler-rv2gs]

Couldn’t agree more

[@jewelplate]

I contend the people who actually did the spreadsheets correctly knows tamer isnt it. I picked it up tried it against Swamp Walker on the way to finishing the campaign and I knew it wasnt going to be it. On that note try out the Eternal Willpower it quite a spicy AR

[@DodRegnbue]

Eternal Willpower feels nice, but from my point of view, it is weaker than Tamer . . . . . Will have to do further testing as I have done even less with this weapon than I have with Tamer.

[@Useakatana]

I think the reason people are so protective is because they don’t have to do much farming for it lol

[@Vaisukin]

i forgot the psychological term for it but people have a tendency to believe strongly in a opinion or perspective when it’s the first one to be brought up to them regarding a topic they have no prior knowledge on. KZbinrs said this is best weapon, they got it and saw content easier, so telling them something no one else is talking about is good without showing a 1 second boss kill will not sway their opinion unfortunately

[@Useakatana]

@@Vaisukin Ik lol KZbinrs keep showing bosses which are weak to the status effect or weak general *cough* Devourer

[@that80ssongyoulove84]

@@Vaisukinthe term is called the Dunning-Kruger Effect, which is a cognitive bias where people with limited competence overestimate their understanding or ability about a particular subject.

[@marvinmarsh3534]

@@Vaisukin Primacy and recency biases. Primacy being the one you're talking about, recency is similarly applied to the most recent information being harder to unseat. Extremely powerful tools used in marketing.

[@masterofthedeathwing2839]

ive got a max overcharged the last dagger and the final masterpiece, great weapons

[@lanelesic]

You can roll +11% rounds magazine on the weapon trait for 160 and you can use a red magazine improving mod to get tamer to like 180+ total size mag. So stack up 150 stacks and have 10 to 30 rounds hitting at max stacks. If some king fisher doesnt bump you out of your zone 🤣

[@DodRegnbue]

I did not take weapon rolls into account for either weapon. I did not know what the Tamer build used as it is not my build, so I did not include the rolls from my build on The Last Dagger.

[@lanelesic]

@@DodRegnbue Tamer is a (relatively) low investment medium reward weapon. With a damage ceiling that Enduring legacy can break easily but you gotta farm and upgrade Enduring Legacy, tamers are easy to acquire.

[@fang_falcon1600]

Enduring legacy ❤

[@DodRegnbue]

YES!

[@reaperbot_scythe1758]

and then they found out about enduring legacy, and they realized how bad tamer is.

[@DodRegnbue]

We knew about Enduring Legacy since the Alpha over a year ago.

[@simontaylor9362]

Thunder knackers maxed out is untouchable in the open world IMO

[@henryromain5577]

I mean nice video brother If you can grind ti get Enduring legacy its definitely an upgrade if you have the catalysts but its a crit dmg weapon tamer has huge multiplicative on weak point dmg, so i get your point but Tamer is a a very great option for a purple weapon that cost less ressources to make a god roll out of and the ability to have multiple with different stats and rolls so i get the stats but Tamer is a damn good weapon huge mag big weak point damage and good overtime dps, i dont even have 1 but you cant just shit on the weapon like that you take an approach thats way to arrogant to get to your point and people in the comments are showing it your a smart guy do better dont just shit on the community like that man peace out iam only saying this because i actually agree with you bro

[@DodRegnbue]

Tamer has a x1 on weak point. This is not huge. At base, in terms of Multipliers, Tamer has some of the worst stats in the game, the ONLY thing it has going for it is high damage and fast fire rate with a large mag. Comparitive to Thunder Cage, which you get earlier, which comes with crystal already install allowing for more or higher level mods giving you a better DPS build. TC also has 20% Crit Rate, tamer 10% TC has 1.2 Weak point, Tamer 1. ***fails to remember the rest of the base stats***

[@jamesdouglas5930]

Here come the spreadsheets 😂

[@MrLutharr]

Im not here to disagree with your take. But its kinda funny watching someone label folks "spreadsheet warriors" while having a literal spreadsheet in the background............

[@DodRegnbue]

I outright say, in this video, by reference of "My Fellow Spread Sheet Warriors". I have also made a near enough full career of being spread sheet warrior. I will admit it 100% of the time.

[@pelonwarfare2]

Damn, the Tamer cult is going at you in the comments, its funny

[@lightnbrightt]

its always hard for people to understand these looters because they usually have no idea what they are doing and blindly follow guides no point ion worrying about it tbh

[@James-xx1ro]

okay, so if the tamer is out (again) what is the best purple LMG? i already have an enduring legacy maxed out and fully catalyzed but ive been thinking a more accurate lmg would be amazing.

[@DodRegnbue]

I do not know what the best Purple LMG is, I am investiong zero time into purple as from what I have seen/tested so far, they do not stack up at all against Ultimate weapon that you invest in.

[@ADR_JaiDe_N]

Tamer IS the best purple LMG statistically, that's why it was hyped so much so early. The recipe was highest damage with the highest rate of fire in the LMG category. Compare all the other LMGs and you won't see them with high base damage ATK+high ROF. that's really the only reason it was hyped so hard.

[@scruncher8699]

Thank You

[@zKAMI-]

Maybe they mean its the best crush type weapon for general rounds if u dont have a lvled enduring legacy

[@Sandesper]

I heavily dislike Tamer and these spreadsheet warriors. Like your dps on paper means nothing if you cant hit your shots, and tamer is really inaccurate.. Also you bring up really good points on Real-life fighter and Mental focus mods which people do not take in to consideration at all

[@East_Referees_Vs_West]

The only thing guns is meta for is boss fights. What’s the point in using guns against mobs when half the characters clear the screen with abilities

[@DodRegnbue]

Lepic called, he would like to have a word with you . . . . .

[@East_Referees_Vs_West]

@@DodRegnbue gluttony called that Lepic shit don’t work anymore

[@Harmonic14]

​@@East_Referees_Vs_West there's a Lepic gun build that beats basically anyone that's not Enzo, Valby, or Gley lol

[@xdugs1490]

effort x benefits = tamer wins, ends of discussion you can get a tamer in 5 minutes

[@obi-daddykenobi2031]

Yeah anyone who has theorycrafted before KZbin clickbait chasing took one look at tamer and scratched their heads. Where's my crit? Where's my weak point damage? Games almost always give more dps to weapons/mechanics that require a bit of skill. Spray and pray only gets you so far. I've retired from the meta/Uber guild world where I'd spend hours practicing skill rotations and variations just to crunch numbers. Some people will never know the 12+ hour sessions to be world first kill. Now i just enjoy a solid above average build that's fun to play. Dagger is both.

[@radekplug82]

if nexon make this gun to drop in missions lile fallen hope, tunder cage, albion cavalery and others than ppl will play with it.

[@royzed2039]

Knew tamer was not good way before. But I want to see you take Range into consideration since there's damage drop off in this game. The Last Dagger suffers from that a lot in boss fights.

[@DodRegnbue]

Although true. It is also something that is 100% player controlled. This is where you would have to exercise caution and play to your own experience. Devourer, like running up on the player. We can use Dagger here. Dead Bride, runs away. This is a better option for Tamer.

[@royzed2039]

@@DodRegnbue Understandable. But I'd use something more accurate to deal with dead bride. Her weak points are so small.

[@stuartmccandlish4784]

I don’t think I’ve seen anyone say tamer is the best in all situations it was specifically aimed at colossus dps when the game was in its first week it was the easiest to obtain for the average player.

[@DodRegnbue]

I see it daily. Also, no. Thunder Cage beat it due to coming with 3 Crystal pre installed. Easier, cheeper and better.

[@DJSammy69.]

Tamer is The new Bunny!!

[@bloody4558]

Except that Bunny is more useful in different scenarios. Tamer was only a bossing weapon.

[@Dyils]

Frankly, there is no circumstance in which the Tamer is the best. For bosses? You use skills, not your guns. Gley's Massacre or Rockets, Lepic's 4th, etc. For dungeons and farming? Something like Bunny and Thunder Cage. In what circumstance are people using Tamer exactly, I still wonder? That weapon is horrifying to use. The movement speed along is an instant deal braker. I don't care how much damage it does. What am I gonna use it for? Not farming, it's too slow. Not bosses, my Lepic far out-DPSes it. So what should I use it for? Nothing...

[@DodRegnbue]

As much as I agree. I am specifically looking at weapons.

[@airborne1868]

Well not even that long ago almost every CC called Tamer THE META shredding every content , no other weapon needed , easy to get , even easier to build . I was never a big fan for a reason .

[@Jabarri74]

I don't believe Tamer is OP, it's just an easy starter weapon. OK yeah as you admitted the dagger does scale up better, but if you have a week + to farm and craft this what are you using in the mean time?

[@DodRegnbue]

My point here is simply looking at it as a Meta Weapon. Player time and ability, sadly has nothing to do with it. As for Easy start weapon, you are given a Thunder Cage, pretty much for free a lot earlier in the game, and it comes with 2 or 3 Crystal pre installed. Which allows you to get a higher DPS build with quit litterally zero investment.

[@greendroid77]

Content creators are pumping out mostly budget builds for most views. Not what takes the most effort, a large population of gamers are looking for easy and quick not very best.

[@DodRegnbue]

For the 50th time today. This does not make it Meta.

[@andyy6481]

but it takes so long to max out those ult weapons, but you can kill the same boss with a normal weapon tho, but maybe it takes you 30 more sec due to the damage difference, so why put in 10Hr+ to get a max ult weapon that save you 30sec?

[@ahreuwu]

but we aren't talking about what's Good Enough, this is about the most effective tactic available. If it's 30 seconds slower, then it's not the meta. I play for the good enough because I don't have the time to sink into getting the meta, but that doesn't let me say tamer is the best when it's literally not

[@andyy6481]

@@ahreuwu in the real world when I think about "effective" we might be talking about the entire thing such as from start to finish, like it take way too much investment for such little return so it is not effective in reality, but sure in the final stage boss fight you might get it done a bit quicker.

[@Jabarri74]

Crafting 5x legendary wps and all the components gl doing it in 10h

[@wolfieblack76]

Bro’s hit max aggro stacks. I bet your a blast at parties.

[@DodRegnbue]

Parties involve people. I do not like people. As a collective they are normally pretty dumb. To quote Men In Black. "A Person is smart. People are dumb, stupid and panicy. And you know it"

[@wolfieblack76]

@@DodRegnbue I agree with your take on people in the collective. Also respect your decision not to hide your disdain for people in an attempt to get subscribers and ultimately a paycheck. You’ve got decent content as well. I’ll throw ya a sub my man.

[@EcchiRevenge]

How did you get your weakspot dps?

[@DodRegnbue]

Daamge x Weakpoint multiplier.

[@EcchiRevenge]

@@DodRegnbue Your weakpoint multiplier is 1.75(base 1.0, and 75% from total of have aiming and weakpoint sight) and 2.16 but your weakspot dps is 2.75x for tamer and 3.16xfor last dagger.

[@EcchiRevenge]

@@DodRegnbue For reference, on a standard non-crit hit with tamer, a 50%(I added up a max level weak point sight to a low level have aiming; no other mods or relevant substat) increase to weak spot dmg got me around 30% increase to damage per shot when tested against hard mode devourer shoulder. That's actual number displayed separately from elemental damage(had a bit of electric substat). On most if not all non-colossi enemies the headshot is a 0.5x added, not 1.0. So where did you get that extra 1?

[@DodRegnbue]

@@EcchiRevenge This is most likely due to own ineptitude with spread sheets. Yes, on a weapon with a x1 as weak point, hitting them in the head gives you 0.5. If per say, we do 100 damage and just multiply by 0.5. the rsult is 50. So, on a spread sheet you do 100 * (1+0.5) to give you the 150 we know we are looking for. Which is all I have done here. Pretty sure I have just autopiloted and added the 1 in manually. Thank you for bringing this to my attention.

[@Big_pancake73]

so a weapon you have to put a lot of time into beats it...but stock for stock...I mean how hard is it to get the tamer as to the last dagger....anyway...spreadsheet guys will ways try to dis prove stuff....does the tamer slap and kill fast yes is it easy to get yes....soooo...anyway..lol...good vid...oh yeah I use thunder cage mostly anyways....

[@DodRegnbue]

I got TLD to a max build faster than Tamer due to it requiring 3 less crystals.

[@Big_pancake73]

@@DodRegnbue you play mor than the average person hehehehe...so do I but yeah...lol....

[@DodRegnbue]

@@Big_pancake73 Still does not detract from from the fact that Thundercage is obtained earlier, has 3 crystal pre built and is easily built up to do more than tammer with the same investment.

[@Big_pancake73]

@@DodRegnbue ok....I said what I said man...but cool....I ain't arguing about it lol....I like thunder cage....but did use tamer...not so much anymore though...hehehe....have a good one dude.....

[@Big_pancake73]

@@DodRegnbue hey man can you test predator instinct on gley its not changing damage numbers for me....I'd like to see what you come up with.

[@sourg_rage]

your spreadsheets and calculations are interesting and useful but the way you deliver information loses trust and respect. Get off your high horse, mate with your "I am right, you are all wrong" mentality.

[@EcchiRevenge]

he's not even right with his math; look at the weakspot dps.

[@DodRegnbue]

@@EcchiRevenge There is zero wrong with my weakpoint DPS.

[@EcchiRevenge]

@@DodRegnbue Your weakpoint multiplier is 1.75(75% from total of have aiming and weakpoint sight) and 2.16 but your weakspot dps is 2.75x for tamer and 3.16xfor last dagger.

[@Nomadic_Gaming]

tamer feels decent to shoot but its damage its stats are ass this game purple weps are mid at best w some niche builds they are ok on a specific character but vs how good a maxed ultimate wep is w their unique abilities its no contest its like comparing any tier of wep below legendary in diablo 3 to legendary or sets the stats and unique bonuses set them well and above and apart by far there isnt a contest

[@josephbeaton8909]

I think that mfs just see big numbers and follow KZbinr meta think it’s an end all be all

[@DodRegnbue]

Pretty much.

[@richardrobinson7854]

Funny I use the tamer and the way I have it built it hits hard maybe you don't know how to build it it's not the best but it's very good for you to say it mostly sucks it's because you don't know how to build it sorry you just can't build a good one I think it's on you

[@Nomadic_Gaming]

you do realize his spread sheet takes into account all stats youd build into it its crit is so abysmally low its not a good gun maybe if you havent invested in w legendary gun at all itll be closer but its objectively a bad gun even full catalyzed its mid at best w the character carrying it id say its objectively the best purple lmg to shoot because acc and recoil is really good so its easy to use but overall the purple weps in this game dont come close to legendary at all if you think they do when basic math here can show they arent you are gaslighting yourself into being worse at the game for no reason other than feelings

[@richardrobinson7854]

@@Nomadic_Gaming them how is my sorry tamer killing everything in the game ? If it sucks as much as he thinks then how I'm I doing it with a sorry gun? Sorry but stats don't and never have been about to tell the hole story

[@Nomadic_Gaming]

@@richardrobinson7854 any gun can kill stuff w mods and time no ones saying it cant we just aren’t bsing about what does that best while you are coping over your fav wep

[@DodRegnbue]

This is your 3rd comment . . . . Jesus dude. Were you born stupid, or did you work on it over a life time? Nothing you have said adds any substance to the pretense of the conversation at hand. Go away, think about it, and come back when you decide not to dribble in my comments.

[@richardrobinson7854]

@@DodRegnbue if you like to see stupid look in the mirror

[@DarkKiller-0]

I respect your opinion. But some people need to chill when it comes to how they feel about what other people used lol I’ve literally been insulted because someone saw me holding the tamer. Like it is not that serious and will never be that serious. Use what you want if it works for you or you find it fun. If you wanna debate someone about what gun is the best then that’s your right, but don’t go around saying people are dumb or meta slaves just because your favorite KZbinr said a gun is overrated

[@DodRegnbue]

My entire argument here is quite simply the "Meta" is still up for grabs. Untill we are able to calculate all weapons at their maximum, we quite simply do not know. I, personally, have expressed disspointment in game towards Tamer users, but it is mostly because when I ask them about it, their responce is quite simply. "X KZbinr/Streamer told me to". For me this is not a good enough reason. That being said, I am not sure if you paused around the 14:41 mark, but there is a line in there: "Despite hot powerfullSpread sheet are, the BEST spread sheet is your own play and experiences" Or something like that. So if you whole heartedly like and enjoy this weapon, I have no issues with it.

[@DarkKiller-0]

@@DodRegnbue that’s why we have 3 weapons slots. No one is forcing anyone to use one weapon at any given time. Bring whatever guns will fit a particular situation. Just because you see someone using a gun doesn’t mean they’re crutching on it. Me personally I run the tamer for single target dps and the thunder cage for general add clear. But because I had the tamer equipped at all someone went out their way to tell me I’m dumb lol no nuance in some peoples head “youtuber said gun bad/good. Now I attack people who don’t agree”

[@Wolfpaxrunning]

Yet another person not understanding different weapons are for different builds on different descendants. Example Tamer is garbage, unless you are infinite crit Enzo. Why? Enzo gets 2 additive buffs for a total of +49% base crit. One buff is time based, the second lasts for a single mag. This means the only weapon better than tamer for crit Enzo is Enduring Legacy, period.

[@DodRegnbue]

Read your own comment again, slowly. We can apply Enzo + Tamer to: Enzo + Last Dagger. 100% Crit, all of the time, yes please. Enzo + Thunder Cage. Not like this weapon needs more add clear, but hey, this is your fantasy. Enzo + Greg. Want some Crit with your AC130? Enzo + Python. Now every other weapon the game is playing catch up. Enzo + Ablion Cav . . . You get Stunned and you get stunned and you get stunned, oh, and thanks for the 25% Firearm attack (this is at base, I assume this goes higher, it only needs 8% more to beat Tamer at base) Enzo + Clairvoyance. NO BODY MOVE, and everybody take 40% more damage. I mean, damn dude, even Fallen hope is comparable to Tamer on a damn Enzo. There is a reason I did the comparision with and without Valby. Think about it next time, please.

[@Wolfpaxrunning]

@DodRegnbue maybe read my comment again, the crit lays for 1 magazine and at max cool down is 10 seconds. You cannot have full uptime on most weapons and the recast eats into your dps.

[@Wolfpaxrunning]

@DodRegnbue also to be clear, the cast time is 2.5 seconds. So each reload needs that added into your math as well if you want full uptime (even though, once again you need a weapon that can fire consistently for 10 seconds first)

[@DodRegnbue]

@@Wolfpaxrunning I read your comment perfectly fine the first time, if anything you are now just making your case worse, as Valby with the last Dagger still does more than Enzo with Tamer. This will give you 1,347,013 Critical DPS on Tamer, congrats, you only just beat the first Stack of The Last Dagger on Valby. By the time you have even done this, I will be sitting pretty at 1,517,040. And I can still get more. . . . Got another 2 stacks.

[@Wolfpaxrunning]

@@DodRegnbue tamer does 1,831,525 critical dps, try again.

[@wyteprvlge]

this video is pointless. the meta is LITERALLY defined by the community. there is no objective right answer except to the question "what is everyone using". hence, the tamer is the meta. delete this lol

[@Harmonic14]

Man you couldn't be more wrong lol

[@seansquires8151]

Let's see spend 3 days unlocking a hand gun 5 times.. or just lvl 1 up couple times...... I only see tamers in boss fights.... your whole aura and vibe sucks u sound like a know it all.. Quote I'm a real spreadsheet Warrior not you unquote... every single ultimate weapon full maxed is better than any non ultimate weapon.. don't need spreed sheet see weapon with extra abilities are better...

[@DodRegnbue]

Time invested or not does not equate to Meta.