The Last of Us: Was Joel Wrong?

[@TBlaze182]

Joel didn’t take that decision from her. The fireflies did by putting her under without talking to her about it first. If they allowed them to wake up and discuss it, there’s no reason to believe Joel would try to forcibly make her choose not too.

[@customstheory]

If that was the case, why do you think Joel lies to Ellie about it all? I do agree that the Fireflies took that decision away from Ellie, but so did Joel by killing Marlene and then lying to Ellie about what actually happened there.

[@TBlaze182]

@@customstheory I have no idea. I imagine fear. They framed the situation kinda funny. Even in the second game when he's given the chance to defend or at least explain his actions, he doesn't and just said the vaccine would've killed her. I never agreed with his lie and don't even understand why it was necessary. I think it's reasonable to believe had he told her what actually happened, she'd be okay with that given their relationship.

[@customstheory]

​@@TBlaze182 I agree, I do hope in Season two of the TV show we will get more of an explanation than we got in the game.

[@dawnstock6276]

Joel, did the right thing.

[@auntijen3781]

Ellie's immunity might very well not have been the result of the bite sustained by her mother (where the infection needed first, to circulate systemically throughout Anna before hitchhiking a ride down the umbilical cord & into Ellie.. ) What if the cause of Ellie's immunity was that Anna cut Ellie's cord with the very same switch blade, that was covered in the blood of the infected? That would make "immunizing" all of this worlds future children dangerous, but still possible.. Bonus; without anyone needing to remove any brain parts from Ellie... Maybe if Anna had been honest w Marlene in the beginning, that she didn't cut Ellie's cord until after being bitten, then killing the infected and finally cutting the cord- with the blood soaked same knife, they may have already figured out the secret to her immunity, non invasively...

[@customstheory]

That's a pretty good theory! Though I think if Anna had been honest, Marlene might've killed Ellie after she died; Her lie was the only way to guarantee Ellie's survival.

[@NEMES1-S]

It’s difficult to answer a moral question that is birthed in a console game. However, having played this game through twice, I have to say that I would absolutely make the same choice that Joel made. The apocalyptic world event that took his daughter in such a violent manner I think would harden his desire for a ‘possible’ cure for humanity in exchange for the life of a child who has saved his life and who he has protected on many occasions. Absolutely I would !

[@customstheory]

I think it would be very difficult to sacrifice the life of someone you care about so deeply, even if you were saving the world in the process! I would too.

[@kylenash5963]

when you love someone they are more important than the rest of the world so no he didnt make the wrong choice joel make the right choice and id back him up even if it ment the end of the world. he followed his heart and thats all that matters

[@customstheory]

That's a good point.

[@strikkmoez]

Joel never had a choice. Since episode 2 Joel has been given directives: Take her, watch her, save her, protect her and every single time Ellie was right there to witness. Ellie is the only one that was allowed a choice, several times and she chose Joel: The weapon. Maria and others have told or shown that girl through the whole series that Joel is Joel and does Joel things. She made her decision in episode 6 and was shown the outcome of that choice in episode 8. I think what's going on is a lot of people projecting based on hope and disregarding what is apparent. At the end, Ellie doesn't ask Joel to tell her the truth, she TELLS him to swear to her... So he does. The same way he did what Tess told him to do, Marlene told him to do, Bill told him to do (in the letter). Ellie can only blame herself and probably does.

[@customstheory]

Our interpretations might differ but I see it as Joel having the choice to tell Ellie what actually happened with the fireflies but refusing to do so, so she never had to make that decision herself.

[@strikkmoez]

@@customstheory That's just it. Joel doesn't make choices and if forced to, he defaults to protect mode. That's his nature. It's like the parable of the scorpion and the frog. This is what Joel is, he's never claimed otherwise. That fact is hammered home episode after episode but 'we' attach motive to his actions that just aren't there because Projection. Think back to every conversation and situation that was shown to us. This ending was inevitable only because each and every time Ellie was asked to choose, she chose to go forward with Joel. She chose violence because Joel is violence.

[@customstheory]

@@strikkmoez Interesting observation. I do feel like Ellie opposed Joel when he suggested they just head back to Tommy's, but I guess this could've just been Ellie not wanting what they had gone through to be for nothing. Given the chance, do you think Ellie would have sacrificed herself? Because, even if Joel didn't want her to, I think Ellie would have, at the very least, considered it.

[@strikkmoez]

@@customstheory Hmm. That is a tough question which would require pure speculation. We're in total agreement that she would have at least considered it and likely she would have been pressured to sacrifice herself by a lot of adults who've given their lives over to a cause that demands Ellie make that sacrifice. If given access to Joel, she would likely have heard and seen his opposition to that. Joel said something in episode 4 about Tommy, the fireflies and the naive idealism they had regarding saving the world. It seems pretty obvious that Ellie adopted some of that idealism - "I'm gonna save the F***in' world.." Doesn't seem like she fully understood what that package contained though.

[@kimberlym-w9926]

Joel did the right decision because as a parent figure you have go by your inner gut!! Also there will be no season two of this show . The clickers were gone for go and Ellie was killed in the process…. Also Pedro and Bella need the work….❤️🎉😎👍

[@customstheory]

Looking forward to season 2!

[@Kolya-chu]

He was absolutely wrong. But we understand.

[@TBlaze182]

How can he be “absolutely wrong”, but you understand? If he’s wrong he’s wrong. If you understand, then there’s some nuance to acknowledge and he can’t be absolutely wrong. He was placed in an impossible situation.

[@TheNdh00]

Is the World worth 14 year old girl?

[@customstheory]

Haha when you put it like that probably not. But for a father protecting his daughter, I would say so!