The Lightning Temple, The Perfect Balance - Dungeon Design in Zelda (TOTK)

[@CaptBurgerson]

Thanks for watching everyone! What did you think of The Lightning Temple? And which of TOTK's dungeons was your fav? Don't forget to do the liking and subbing and all that usual shilling stuff. Thanks for being cool ✌

[@Hairo-rv9kl]

This might sound strange, but I think in retrospect the Construct Factory/Spirit Temple might be tied with the Lighting Temple as my favorite. It's just such an interesting concept. A Zonai-themed dungeon that revolves around creating Zonai vehicles as part of the dungeon's main puzzles (something which up to this point has mainly been an overworld exploration feature), and unlike the previous dungeons you don't get the dungeon item until the halfway point once you complete the Factory portion, which technically makes it more similar to an older dungeon. The lead-up is also fantastic imo, and the Thunderhead Isles were my second favorite lead-up behind the Lightning Temple. Seized Construct I think is also one of my favorite bosses just because of how wacky but awsome the idea of a Rock'em-Sock'em style robot fight in Zelda game is, also because it's design and concept feels pretty reminiscent of Koloktos from SS Atmosphere-wise imo it also makes better use of the Depths as a setting than the Fire Temple, and it really feels like a depths dungeon, aesthetically at least. Lore-wise I also find it the most intriguing because we're only given half the lore from a construct at the top of the Factory, but we have clues here and there that paint a better picture. I actually have a whole theory regarding the real purpose of the Factory and the Spirit Temple regarding Mineru's intentions and the possible fate of the Zonai, but I've been rambling for long enough.

[@cato3277]

Gloom's Lair, just because of how insanely good the enemy battle music is. Seriously, its terrifying and reminds me a bit of TP. I almost feel tempted to say that Sky Hyrule Castle and Gloom's Lair are two parts of the same overall dungeon, but I'm not sure it would really count.

[@chooongusbug724]

Construct Factory, hands down

[@thecjgameworld4013]

2 words, very tough, I wanted to complete the story before anything else so KZbin wouldn't end up spoiling anything and thus I didn't have alot of hearts or good weapons to work with despite the fact that I did this dungeon last. The Gibdo Queen was especially annoying as I would get 1 or 2 shot by her and the Gibdo hoard she summoned which makes me panic instead of think because there's a thousand of them charging you. I even had the whole squad out ready to fight off the hoard, despite how slow the sages are with dealing blows, thier assistance was still thankful & thier Abilities were the big thank you with Yunobo being a good way to weaken the Queen Gibdo so Riju can stun it while Sidon can give you an extra shield to protect yourself from the onslaught. Almost every Sage was useful during this fight, with the exception being Tulin who's only benefit is sniping down those headshots. But yeah, as I expected, and didn't expect, this temple was definitely the hardest of the 4, with the Queen being the hardest boss I have ever fought in a game.

[@adonaibaptiste4803]

Are you going to do the Spirt Temple?

[@Skip6235]

It almost feels like the Lightning Temple (and the entire lead-up to it) was designed by a different team than the other dungeons. It does such an incredible job of utilizing the game mechanics but in a way that still feels quintessentially Zelda that the other temples just don’t. I hope that Nintendo gives whoever designed this dungeon the reigns for all the dungeons in the next game.

[@kuks0453]

I mean, the Fire Temple too. The only thing is that many people cheesed it and missed out. And then there's the Spirit Temple, which is again super interesting and puzzle-heavy, but in a creative TotK unique way unlike anything we've seen before. The other two I can agree felt more basic in comparison

[@emprax_D]

@kuks0453 I agree with you. The fire temple has really good pacing and the construct factory is one of the only dungeons where the parrallel/out-of-order mechanic really fits because of you are building up a robot. The terminals in the fire temple and the lightning temple felt quite right as well, while the in the other dungeons it didn't.

[@chyhodgson7726]

I absolutely agree. I thought this was such a great balance of linear and open design.

[@johntaxpayer2523]

@@kuks0453 i agree that people missed out but its because the goron can just teleport to where ever you are so you are incentivised to cheese it. or maybe its better to say you are not incentivised to not cheese it

[@elusivefrog]

@@kuks0453 tbh, i really wanted to play the goron temple as intended, but dear god i just found the map to be supremely unreadable and ended up cheesing the last 2 terminals. gerudo temple ended up being the only one that I actually enjoyed. def want to see actual traditional zelda dungeons again with this next game

[@DankMemeCenterX]

The Gerudo region is such an intriguing place to explore and to read up on. Easily the peak dungeon while the Wind Temple was more spectacle post the Great Sky Island.

[@Dr_Zamus]

Exactly

[@kevinh6008]

Agreed. Some of the Gerudo Desert seems unfinished however.

[@vivaofficial7372]

​@@kevinh6008I feel the same way about this. The desert felt smaller than in Botw. I could be wrong but it also feels like the invisible walls are much closer than before but I loved it second most nonetheless

[@orange_turtle3412]

It took me way too long to figure out how to get inside the wind temple. Requiring the player to intentionally jump off the side (an action that usually kills you) in order to progress is just blatantly terrible game design.

[@StarlitWitchy]

​@@orange_turtle3412 there is a map of the temple and all those bouncy windarks you know

[@alcatrazjyh6293]

Yeah, I kind of figured the Lightning Temple would be regarded the most positively out of all the Regional Phenomena dungeons. Also, pardon the slight tangent, but I personally like the Gibdos of Tears of the Kingdom as far as aesthetics are concerned. Rather than being Stalfoses wrapped in bandages or, in the case of OoT and MM, ReDeads cosplaying as mummies, they're more insectoid in appearance which I actually consider quite an original take on such a classic enemy! Said aesthetics are further emphasized when you take the Moth Gibdos, the Gibdo hives and even the dungeon's boss, the Queen Gibdo, into consideration! But, yeah, I'm willing to bet the dungeons peaked during the Gerudo's side of the Regional Phenomena main quest line!

[@Lizzymun]

I really wish all regions had at least one Unique enemy to differentiate them even more. The depths could have also benefited from those region specific enemies to get some variety

[@Yorrick624]

I always liked the idea of the depts having like a giant enemy/boss roaming around, and you would never know if it's near you or on the other side of the map. Maybe it could be defeated, but that should only be after you've activated all Light roots. Just wanted to share the idea real quick

[@shaobues]

Zora- An enemy that looks like the original Zora but with different names Goron- Dodongo Rito- ???

[@PowderKegel]

Yes yes yes. This is what the game was missing the most.

[@PowderKegel]

@@shaobueszora should’ve had poisonous Bari. Goron-gloom dodongos, easily. Rito-Freezards in hebra? White wolfos?

[@Lizzymun]

@@shaobues Imagine if they brought back the Giant Peahats from Ocarina of Time and they roam the skies of the Rito area

[@Skip6235]

I converted this dungeon into my DnD game (which was a painstaking process that involved taking a ton of notes as I played through it, and then reconfiguring all the puzzles to work within the 5e rules) My players all had a blast, and one even decided to buy ToTK because of it!

[@CaptBurgerson]

WOAH. That’s incredible! What sort of design concessions and/or conversions had to be made?

[@austinmills1652]

I second that! Would love to see how you did it 😭

[@Amadeus.Herrera]

I would love to see it too 😮

[@queenofeverything4004]

I'd love to see it too 😍😍😍

[@Skip6235]

@@CaptBurgerson Oh man, I wonder if I can share the google drive link to the walkthrough, it might be easier than trying to explain it. . .

[@rbpfarr]

This was definitely my favorite temple in terms of feeling like an actual dungeon. The wind temple is my favorite experience in the game but this temple was almost a traditional dungeon. ALMOST. But I loved that we still had tons of agency in the temple but not so much that we could just cheese the whole thing.

[@michaellane5381]

Only problem with this dungeon is it felt like it could use more dead ends/unimportant side boss.

[@rbpfarr]

@@michaellane5381 very true, not enough trolling

[@michaellane5381]

@@rbpfarr not trolling just... That kind of clue where you see one path has an x and the other doesn't and following the x saves you time, instead the dungeon had an obvious path and obvious dead ends which only have 1 or 2 rooms for exploration. We have ascend to reset from terrible long wrong way/traps, so the temple would have been cool to put say a massive pit with a Talus or Frox, or heck a Stalboss Bokoblin.

[@rbpfarr]

@@michaellane5381 I agree, I would have loved an inescapable monster pit. Maybe even a ghibdo swarm in a small room like, if you played Skyrim, the quest where you return potemas skull and youre caged in with a mob of draugr

[@Miss_Rydia]

This was the first dungeon I tackled, and it was so close to the feeling of classic dungeons. I was so excited, thinking about all the other dungeons in the game, until I found out the hard way this was the odd one out.

[@Physicalchemistry15151]

I would love to see you do an analysis on other “dungeon like” portions of the game like the tutorial area, the crisis at Hyrule castle quest, and the forgotten foundation. Those areas IMO are pretty good but often get overlooked

[@namenamename390]

Fun fact, you can ascend through the ceiling after entering the temple and going down the stairs, which brings you directly into the central room. I figured this out on my first play by looking at the 3D map. Since the sages can teleport, even in their corporial form, Riju followed me and I skipped a significant portion of the temple. Ascend really must be a nightmare for level designers. Edit: So the video says Riju can't teleport, which is weird because I managed to get her to teleport twice in my playthrough. I assume she can only teleport to prevent a soft lock, which would explain why she teleported to the central room with me. I wouldn't have had a way to return to her without reloading if the didn't, so she teleported as a failsafe. The other time I got her to teleport however just skipped a part of a puzzle I was meant to solve, so I'm not sure how that happened.

[@darrenm.7980]

If that's the case at least it's only for a failsafe, and not in a way that would make the dungeon too cheeseable

[@CaptBurgerson]

It is weird that you got to do it twice inadvertently, I was TRYING to see if I could get her to and couldn't lol

[@Gehir]

@@CaptBurgerson did the same, ascended right into the central room with Riju right next to me

[@gabe5918]

Every copy of TotK is personalized……… 😱

[@ZeldaLore]

This dungeon is definitely a step in the right direction. What the dungeons need now is three things: 1) a main dungeon item that changes how we approach puzzles, combat and exploration in thw dungeon as well as the rest of the world (think of a middle ground between the zonai abilities, and the sage powers). Rather than give us all the powers at the start of the game, give them to us in the dungeon and build the dungeon and boss fight around that mechanic. 2) A miniboss that gives us said dungeon item. 3) locked doors and small keys. I think also there could be more variation on what the "Boss Key" is. Twilight Princess for example had the Goron Mines Boss Key broken up into several fragments across the dungeon, in both PH and ST you had to carry it around to the dungeon door, and Skyward Sword had us turn and rotate the key to match the lock (which would work beautifully with a mechanic like Ultrahand) Going to 4 or 5 terminals isn't the only way for dungeons to provide freedom. I get that they want multiple objectives to be done in the dungeon in any order, but more variation other than Turbine, Faucet, Gong & Battery activated by each sage power. The spirit temple for example had us build the Crafter Construct, which was certainly a breath of fresh air from the other dungeons.

[@tylerherr4288]

fun fact theres a hole in the roof of the lightning temple that leads to the top room its sealed off by one of the queens weird nest structures before the dungeon so you cant just follow her in and its actually opened after the fight really nice touch for a game thats littered with "dont think too hard about it" moments

[@princekamoro3869]

After first playing the Wind and Water temples, this one gave me SOME hope in this game's dungeons. One minor gripe: Navigation is still somewhat map-oriented. l found myself going "I need to find another way to that room." [looks at map] "There it is!" This is an improvement over Wind/Water which let you basically blindly follow the map. But my favorite is Fire, where you have to navigate mostly entirely "in person", and pay attention to what leads where. Fire is more in line with traditional dungeons in this regard, where you don't even HAVE a map straight away, much less critical locations marked. I also like the "Courage to fall" shrine, where you have to infer a secret passage from what you see while exploring. Also, the format is the same as the other dungeons. A gauntlet of stuff followed by a find-the-things. The only difference is here, that gauntlet is IN the dungeon, so the dungeon can claim credit for it.

[@GammaRayven]

Only after watching this do i understand why the thunder temple gave me so much trouble. I also did this temple last so i was used to the companion character always being right next to me, but the fact that Riju needs a walkable path to be able to get to you is what was getting me. It goes against the methods of solving the puzzles that i had developed from doing the other temples. The other temples I did with 25-30% cheese but that didn't work here and i ended up circling around the 1st area a few times trying to see if i missed a path or a switch. I might go and try this temple again now that i know how riju works and can incorporate that into my thinking.

[@samura1s4m]

When I first explored this dungeon, I didn't notice the secret passage to the first terminal, so I went down to the floor below, and worked out a spot to stand so I could ascend up to it. Of course, upon reaching the room I realized I had gone the long way around, but the fact that that is an option really speaks to how well-designed this dungeon is.

[@jessecohen5136]

I feel like this dungeon gets so, so, close to what I was hoping for across the board with dungeons in TotK but falls just shy of my ideal; I'm still missing the sense of accomplishment that comes from solving a big puzzlebox dungeon with lots of interconnecting obstacles to progression, the excitement of finding a dungeon item that opens up a second half of the challenge (and small keys; I miss them so much!), and the fun of a proper miniboss fight. To me, the interior of the Lightning Temple also felt much smaller than the exterior suggested, so I could've also done with a bit more dungeon in general here; but, then again, I would happily welcome dungeons that take hours to finish on top of the lead-up to them, so perhaps don't put too much stock in that sentiment. 😅 All in all, though, this and the Stormwind Ark take my top spots out of the five main story dungeons, even if the latter is there more for the aesthetics, boss fight music, and sheer grandeur of that dive into the dungeon than the dungeon itself.

[@cato3277]

if the dungeons followed the design principles of BoTW's Hyrule Castle with a few linear chokepoints (locks and midbosses) it would be perfect imo. Maybe I'm being too critical but if Zelda team could design over half a dozen unique and memorable dungeons for past games, I'm not sure why they can't for a game that has all the groundwork already laid out.

[@brycebitetti1402]

@cato3277 I'd imagine because most of their time went into developing the new sandbox elements. Ascend, Fuse, and especially Ultrahand are all absolute hell to code for, and a large chunk of dev time was most likely just devoted to getting those right. Though, I do know what you mean. I was floored when I learned that TOTK had over 150 shrines, more than BOTW's already bloated 120. I really think that Nintendo needs to stop relying on the shrines to fill out the puzzle quota and chop the number down to, say, 90 so that they could better focus on the dungeons.

[@jessecohen5136]

@@brycebitetti1402 Personally, I'd rather they ditch shrines entirely in favor of having a handful of high-quality and thematically varied mini-dungeons :)

[@brycebitetti1402]

@jessecohen5136 But that would completely destroy character progression, at least without an entire rethinking of how the player is supposed to become stronger in these games. In the older titles, heart pieces could be left out in the world because progression usually wasn't gated behind how strong the player was in terms of stats, but what items they'd managed to obtain. In BOTW, they wanted to be able to give the player the freedom to approach the game however they wanted, while also gating certain areas from early game players. This was accomplished through a stats system, where the player must improve their overall stats by increasing health/stamina and finding new equipment and/or materials to grant temporary Stat boosts with cooking. Shrines are actually a good solution, as they act as a piece of heart with a more substantive challenge tied to obtaining them. They're integral to the overall gameplay structure, which is why I ask that they simply be scaled back to allow more dev time for bespoke dungeons, and perhaps a smaller world to help compensate.

[@emidemi7211]

@@brycebitetti1402 Even 90 feels like too much. I'm thinking maybe 60.

[@luigigamermasterofmariokar9387]

This is my favorite dungeon in the game. Being divided into 2 sections and with 8 total floors is genius. Starting on the first floor then going down into the basement and back up is pure greatness.

[@morpheel]

I did the terminals in basically the reverse of what you listed. The first thing I did was line up the spinning things to get the light to the main room. Then I used the small mirrors to open up paths. I didn't go on the top floor until the end. And I didn't realize you just needed to move the blocks out of the wall for the terminal on the bottom, so I did that last. It's so interesting how you can solve the puzzles in the dungeons in whatever order you want and how many solutions there are

[@HyruleGamer]

An excellent video as always man! Been meaning to get round to watching this one and finally have. My favourite dungeon in TOTK, with the Wind Temple being a close second. It just captures a certain vibe and feel which really engulfed me, glad I saved it for last :D

[@hododod246]

This dungeon essentially should have been the baseline. And from this it should have gotten bigger and more complex.

[@MySilentGaming]

I really think that this, the Spirit (I consider the lead up to be the actual dungeon tbh) and Fire are my favorite temples in the game. Like they’re actually really good imo Edit: In THAT order.

[@skc4188]

Ooohhh, I also love the Construct Factory. It really felt like you were building the ultimate warrior piece by piece!

[@MySilentGaming]

@@skc4188 YES!!! I really hope we get a video featuring the Construct Factory! The only issue I had with the construct factory was the lack of enemies. Otherwise, I'd have to put it up there with no only my favorite temple in TOTK, but top 5 favorite temples in Zelda. With a few tweaks to this one, it could've been perfect. I wouldn't mind going forward if the temples were similar to either this one or Lightening.

[@Uehahahara]

Watching this video and remembering when I played this dungeon, it hit me that, despite the game hinting that Riju needs a clear path to follow you, I played without ever taking it into consideration. And I don’t recall cheesing or getting angry about the puzzles, so maybe it was luck, or I played pretty much how the devs expected.

[@rustyshackleford234]

This was the only temple in TotK that I had trouble with! Such a great one.

[@aaaaaaaaaa190]

My only complaint about that wonderful dungeon is that Riju is always running away from Link in the boss battle. Also, it would be interesting to have Gibdos as the classic desert redeads, but the insect design fits the game. It is peak puzzle-solving gameplay and that is what we need in the next Zelda games. I hope they don't bring the bad parts of those open dungeons back, there have been enough time for them to get used to this new formula and to realize how to make this perfect balance

[@Lego3400]

I do wanna say I was glad I did this temple after doing the water temple, as Sidon's ability actually is pretty useful in dealing with Gibdo.

[@peanutbutter6720]

Thinking about this dungeon makes me want to replay TotK again. It’s exactly what I wanted from this game. The only thing I wish we had was a shield with a built in mirror instead of the awkward looking mirror/shield fusion

[@Logicalleaping]

Could of made a good pseudo dungeon item as well. Perfect for that hidden room that ascend was required for. An item that could be used but not necessary for progression.

[@michaelcaton4431]

The four temples have so much variety I can’t dislike any of them. Wind is about the spectacle of the storm and boss, fire is about the freedom of movement, water has a sunny waterpark relaxed joyous vibe, and lightning is steeped in Zelda tradition. Spectacle, freedom, joy and tradition. So … Zelda games!

[@GamingReinvented]

The Lightning Temple is an incredible dungeon, and definitely the best one in Tears of the Kingdom for sure. As you said in the video, it's the best mix of classic and modern 3D Zelda game design in the series, and it works really well here. I'd also say it kinda shows how well the dungeons in TotK fix enemy variety compared to the last game too. Okay, it's not incredible in that regard, the majority of enemies are still Constructs and Gibdos. But the latter fit the dungeon perfectly, and fit the theme way better than the occasional Likelike and Chuchu used alongside the Constructs in the Fire and Water Temples. The enemies just fit the theme perfectly, while they don't do so well in the other temples. Still, I do need to ask one thing... will Hyrule Castle and the final area at Gloom's Origin get featured in this series? Because I'm sure you'll have some... choice words about the former's design for sure. It certainly feels a bit less impressive than it did in BoTW sad to say.

[@CaptBurgerson]

Thanks CM! Still sorta plotting out plans for how to cover the rest of the game tbh, so stay tuned!

[@darrenm.7980]

While I'm somewhat tired of the terminal based design of dungeons, this dungeon did in a way that felt refreshing, as you have shown, and actually made me enjoy it. On the topic of cheese factor, I kinda prefer if that was just kept to shrines. Just a personal view, but Zelda dungeons feel special and almost sacred to me, and too much cheese just doesn't feel right to me. Shrines are new and meant to be short and sweet, so I don't mind the cheese factor for them. Again, just a personal belief, but I do like this wasn't as cheeseable as the Fire Temple.

[@ericpeterson6520]

I also wanna shout out Gerudo Canyon, which is my favorite change they've made to any of the main quest areas. The new river, the new paths to go around it, and the vehicle puzzles to plow straight through it instead if you choose are all great, and it *almost* makes up for the downgrade Death Mountain had to get Plus the desert itself is so much more full, with the Desert Rift being the best addition imo. It's so much more full and varied than it was in BotW, and exploring it while the shroud is still up is especially fun

[@athena.banana]

this temple and the entire construct factory feel like the best versions of "terminal design" we've seen yet. playing through the game the fourth time recently it truly feels like the other three temples were the game designer's various experiments, like they were designed first. the lightning temple feels like it's using the lessons the dungeon designers learned by making the others. if i'm right, then the next zelda game will hopefully be full of dungeons that surpass the quality of even this one. thanks for the vid captain ❤

[@CaptBurgerson]

Thanks! And I agree! Video premieres tomorrow btw

[@michaellane5381]

Honestly I think the Spirit temple was a bit of a letdown after this one.... Could have used a harder mid-boss, or more enemies. One Hinox wasn't nearly enough... And honestly just like the Yiga Coliseum it is disappointing we got no harder 4th Tier Hinox... At least give us something there.

[@athena.banana]

@@michaellane5381 yea lightning is better. but construct factory has puzzles i like

[@michaellane5381]

@@athena.banana agreed, ultimately I think it comes down to the lack of Native monsters, for example I think a lesser mucktorock or some Muck-Likes could have been used there(with the bridge and. River/waterfall) or a nearby special Frox.

[@coreybananas]

I went to this dungeon second because I was super excited to see what was going on in the desert after the trailers.

[@3X3NTR1K]

I get the sense that each Temple was based on different design principles, and Lightning was the "Traditional Dungeon" of the lot from the get go. That could also explain the others not having restrictions like Riju, but I more suspect the other layous just made that harder to implement. And ultimately while I do like lightning temple, it does still lack that bare minimum of Zelda Dungeon Feel. Less so than the others, but all of them for the same reason: The sages dont fill the same role that dungeon items used to. They function as dungeon keys with extra steps (and thats probably why we dont have much of those either) rather than changing how you interact with the game in a meaningful way. But I know they *could* have. Or at least solutions are imaginable to us with the benefit of hindsight. Oh well.

[@acuforia]

I've been going through and watching/listening to all of your dungeon design videos across the Zelda games as I work. The quality of these continue to get better and better, thank you for your hard work!

[@daniel8181]

"assuming you brought a mirror with you" It was the gerudo temple, of course I did.

[@Gokulosestoavirus]

Definitely the most dungeon of them all. And loved every part of it

[@antoinedenis3081]

I totally agree with you about the cheese factor and riju's behavior but I actually saw quite a lot of people frustrated with riju's ai after being used to the freedom in the other dungeons

[@vivaofficial7372]

I actually met Riju first and randomly on my first playthrough. I was just exploring the desert. In the sand storm, I see these strikes of lightning hitting a dummy so I'm like "Ouuu Rijuuu!!" And sprinted blind 😂I love how this game has so many different ways of approaching it

[@jswp5]

“The game implicitly guides the player to do the dungeons in a certain order” Purah: “go to hebra first or I’ll fucking cut you”

[@CaptBurgerson]

I talk about it in my video for the wind temple as well, and yeah that is absolutely the most heavy handed one

[@coolman229]

This dungeon was by far my favorite. The lead in with the Gibdos, the story in Gerudo Town, meeting with Riju, finding the temple, it was great. Isolating you inside the entire time, having the dark and spooky tunnels where you have a torch to light the way giving major Indiana Jones vibes, and a focused puzzle experience made this incredibly fun. And it had my favorite boss fight in the game (aside from Ganondorf). When I recommend a dungeon order for TotK to people I tell them to do the Water, then Wind, then Fire, then Lightning rather then the order the game pushes you in. I feel like that has a better build up from the most simple to the best dungeon.

[@travisflint7616]

I just finished the (so far) entirety of your Dungeon Design series and I have to say this was an incredible viewing experience. Your passion and in depth thoughts on the dungeons is some of the best I've seen on KZbin. As someone who has played this series since 1994, I couldn't get enough of it. I thoroughly enjoyed this series and I hope we see more once you're done with TOTK. I'd love to see some of the other handheld games. Well done Burger! PS: The Lightning Temple is by far the best temple in TOTK. It was as close to a traditional dungeon as we could have got and it was the perfect mix of new meets old. If they did dungeons like this going forward, I would look at it as a giant win.

[@SirVicksBuster]

Your attention to detail is utterly fantastic. Love a guy who crosses (and punches) every T.

[@Takejiro24]

Growing up playing Tomb Raider and watching The Mummy series, this dungeon is my absolute favorite of the dungeons in this game. This and the Ancient Prison Ruins really scratched that nostalgic itch my aforementioned childhood pastimes allowed me to form. And the boss is right up there with Colgera as the most fun in the game. I loved it so much I'm replaying the game just so I can save right before I tackle the dungeon so I can replay it to my heart's content (really wish we could create multiple manual saves for this very reason). So good!

[@neogotham2k39]

Before the dungeon, it's like you're entering a ghost town with no single soul living due to Gibdos / zombies until you meet the survivors.

[@nathanbyberg]

The Lightning Temple was my favorite dungeon in this game! The mechanics and puzzles were fun, the enemies were unique, the temple layout is awesome, and above all, we hung out with the beautiful Lady Riju! What more could you ask for?!

[@papersonic9941]

The fact Riju can't just teleport to you the way the rest can leads me to suspect every Sage (except maybe Tulin) was meant to work this way, but then maybe playtesters found it annoying. Otherwise, I don't see why it's so inconsistent.

[@aivylotus4583]

The first time defending the city, I was overrun. The second time I was quicker destroying the hives and had a lot less problems.

[@UnknownSpooky]

This dungeon was absolutely a breath of fresh air, from the design, the atmosphere, the music, the boss, literally everything about it is what I'd wanted from the dungeons in the game. God I hope we get more like this. It is my favorite temple in the game in every single way, and the only one that really challenged me in a way that I missed from previous titles.

[@mubzytv]

The Lightening temple is my favourite. Especially the build up to it. I loved the planning the battle with the Gerudo against the Gibdos

[@atanasiamandru8188]

Great video as always! Loving this dungeon!

[@ltrigga219]

Awesome video! I gotta check out your other three now. In my first playthrough, I skipped over Lookout Landing, so I didn’t even have the paraglider for several hours. I also missed the hints for where to find (and how to activate) any of the Great Fairies, and the one location I remembered precisely from BotW was in the southwest corner of the desert. So I went there. And then, finding only the hidden leviathan bones, I decided to visit Gerudo Town, and went through the whole quest…all this to say that the Lightning Temple was my first dungeon in TotK. I was floored, and I (kinda sadly) thought that dungeons were back! It was such a joy to move through, and Queen Gibdo beat me down, since I only had 4 hearts and no upgraded armor…it was almost perfect. And thank you for playing Sailing the Sand Sea at the end of this video. That’s one of my favorite tracks in the series…one of my favorite segments of Skyward Sword, largely due to the perfect song to accompany the eponymous sailing. Gerudo desert music is always wonderful.

[@Cob-Kay]

The atmosphere upon entering the Lightning Temple was so good that it got me to turn off my HUD and take it slow. Grab a torch and walk around. Heck I even changed my armor just to match the theme better, it was great

[@1800mexicano]

"Dungeons" They are a step up from the Divine beasts, where genuinely the best part of them was getting into them. Fighting your way in was very cool, and aside from the ganon fight, my favorite part. But a step up from the floor is still only one step up

[@CaptBurgerson]

Debating whether or not they are GOOD dungeons is one thing. That doesn't mean they aren't dungeons.

[@RSanchez111]

I LOVED the lightning temple. It was actually my first temple finished because I spent A LOT of time in the depths to start the game and managed to find the ascender that took me up to Gerudo Desert. I immediately wanted to explore into the desert sandstorm and with the help of a vehicle managed to stumble into Gerudo Town. The whole leadup to the dungeon was so good, and the dungeon itself was so good too.

[@PRIDLEY229]

This temple is my favorite in the game because it reminds me of my favorite Twilight Princess dungeon: The Abiter's Grounds and my second favorite Ocarina of Time dungeon: The Spirit Temple.

[@RinRin-ge7bq]

I love that you included the infamous bombing of Bozai (may he forever be exploded into tiny pervy pieces!!) I knew this would be a bomb video, speaking of bombs, and you did not disappoint! The Lightning Temple is most definitely the best dungeon of the game and its blending of traditional and wild-era-esque mechanics is so pristine! It does make me wonder about the other dungeons though, particularly the Water Temple, and why the devs decided to go with the things they did. Their approach to this dungeon is just so different, including the lead up - I'm curious as to what happened there. I don't know how development progresses in games, so I'm certainly ignorant, but part of me wonders if there were different teams assigned to each dungeon, considering the differences. Intriguing to think about! In the end, and as a whole, I've been impressed with the dungeons of TotK, but MOST impressed with this one :) Thanks for the bideo, Capt!! Chef's kiss, as usual! :D

[@darrenm.7980]

Most likely different teams, yeah, but also can't help but wonder if they knew many people think water dungeons in Zelda are too confusing or tedious, so they decided to make it overly simple 😂.

[@RinRin-ge7bq]

@@darrenm.7980 oh this makes sense and I didn't even consider it! You're probably right, haha!

[@phantomleaves]

100% my favorite dungeon and overall arc in the game. Great video!

[@SmilingMana]

It felt so wrong to just walk inside of Gerudo Town without Link being in disguise and no guard calling him out. And then I noticed the enemies within the town walls. I love it whenever Zelda suddenly feels like a horror game for a brief second. Will never forget my first time visiting the Gerudos in this game, or my first time visiting the Deku tree and being confronted with everything that is wrong in both areas. This questline is my favorite of the main quests too, and it's my favorite dungeon.

[@g00bleck]

I ran out of arrows mid Queen Gibdo fight, and I hadn't destroyed the last Gibdo hive. I had to rely on sage abilities (really just Yunobo), a mirror shield that ended up breaking, and a small pool of throwables. It took me 45 minutes to be able to take her down and it was the most rewarding feeling

[@ravenebony2267]

Excellent dungeon, and definitely my favorite in the game as well.

[@higurashikai09]

The Water Temple was the worst of the four temples by far for me. I think that it should have been like this temple where you have to unlock pathways for Sidon. He can swim up waterfalls, so we could unlock waterfalls and waterways for him like how we help Riju get around.

[@Amadeus.Herrera]

I agree I like to pretend it doesn't exist 😂 and why in the sky, should be in the big dam (forgot name) and with a lot more of watery things to do 😅

[@coolguychecker7329]

I saved the Gerudo area for last because I wanted to finish the game on a high note. So it was my fifth dungeon, though I did try to finish Hyrule Castle before it though obviously was unable to do so since it requires the main four to be done. I was not disappointed. Ever since Skyward Sword, it feels like the Zelda veteran developers are all on the desert crew. This is the fourth Zelda game I've found myself saying, "wow, the whole game should have been like the desert." I find this to be much more true for Tears of the Kingdom. Gerudo Desert is the only dungeon region in the game that locks its dungeon behind its quest. In every other region, you can just wander into the dungeon without knowing it's a dungeon, and backtracking to get its respective champion can be pain if you don't follow the exact, intended, first-time path. The quest to unlock the Lightning Temple is smooth no matter if you've explored the whole desert before the quest or not. The objectives that lock each step make complete narrative and environmental sense. It's the only region in the game that works like this. In terms of the dungeon itself, while I think it's the only one to draw on OoT/MM style of dungeons by incorporating a nest central room with an intertwining puzzle mechanic, it does so by giving up a lot of the open ended gameplay at the core of the game. My personal opinion is that Hyrule Castle from Breath of the Wild is the best possible "new" dungeon design for the series, with multiple interwoven paths that can be explored in any order supported by non-linear objectives such as finding strong enough weapons or good enough cooking ingredients to bring to the final battle with Ganon. It's much more interwoven with Breath of the Wild's fundamental mechanics than the Lightning Temple is with those of Tears of the Kingdom. That being said, I love this style of dungeon so it works for me, but I think it will be jarring for some people, especially those whose first Zelda was Breath of the Wild. Without the cheese factor, I personally prefer the Fire Temple, but the Lightning Temple is definitely the most tightly designed in the game by far. It just leans a little too traditional with how closed off its navigation is.

[@masteroogway7592]

I did the lightning temple first, and with 7 hearts. I had an absolutely amazing time fighting queen gibdo.

[@renren47618]

Finally some people talking about how Lightning Temple is THE STEP in the right direction, it only needed to be a bit longer and it would've been great. This whole part of the game was amazing, especially because i did Mattison's Quest just before going to the desert, so i could save there and see how she would be among the Gerudo and man, this part was nice, from the desert's ambience with the Gibdos and the fog, to the whole Gibdo zombie Apocalypse happening in the Town and the lead up to the Temple it was by far the most interesting bit of the story, Riju has an interesting abillity and she's the best implemented Champion in the dungeon and at last tbe Dungeon Itself was well done, the Mirror puzzles felt like OG Zelda, the puzzles were interesting and the visuals were nice. If all the 5 Dungeons were done in a similiar way, TOTK would've dissapointed me way less than it did, i felt like the only part of the story where they really cared about other than the Zelda's sacrifice and the final battle, was the Desert arc. Obviously it wasn't perfect and it needed more to be truly what most of us wanted, but it was a step on the right direction regardless.

[@mbii7667]

I don't think the game was disappointing

[@thomasbruce4990]

I loved having a boss fight before going into the dungeon. I thought it was really neat and totally unexpected

[@g00bleck]

The lightning temple, and really the whole gerudo section, is so good

[@merP.-YT]

Aesthetically I did kinda prefer the build up to the wind temple, the ship jumping followed by reaching the top of the hurricane and diving in was epic. That being said, for actually playing through the dungeon the lightning temple is easily the best one. I do kinda wish that the linear entry section was a little bit longer, that more restricted path before hitting the central remove I think adds to the feeling of exploration (similar to how when exploring caves you sometimes go through narrower paths before reaching wide spans with branching areas

[@lapiswolf2780]

I understood which dungeon the game wanted me to go to first, so I decided to do the Gerudo region and Lightning Temple first.

[@kennycarter5682]

omg!! thank you for mentioning the banner sequence. i considered replaying the game and doing a different order to see if the banners change order. thank you for saving me that time

[@mahev.729]

What I also like is that some ennemies in the dungeon have mirror shields. I used a miror shield found in the dungeon during the boss fight so it made it look like an optional dungeon item. The same can be said about the korok leaf/stick they give you at the beginning to remove the sand.

[@brettedwardstout7096]

I’m surprised you didn’t mention that, unlike any of the other dungeon quests, if you fail, Riju DIES! ☠️ 💀 😵

[@CaptBurgerson]

Oh wow, I legit had no idea

[@chris_wizzudz]

I hope Nintendo is looking at all of the positive feedback players have given for this dungeon. If we’re going to ditch the linear formula for dungeon crawling, the Lightning Temple needs to be the blueprint for all future Zelda dungeons going forward. The only thing I would change, of course, is the terminal system. That needs to be rethought in a way that not only feels fresh and exciting, but also manages to lengthen out the time it takes to complete the dungeon as a whole. Maybe they could take inspiration from the Sol orbs of the Twilight Palace.

[@darrenm.7980]

I wouldn't mind if there was ONE dungeon in future games that had the terminals, I just don't want it to be all of them. As long as that dungeon is more lighting temple and less water temple lol

[@johnt9401]

Previous Zelda games have used this formula several times, they just happened to interweave comparatively more interesting scenarios into them. The OOT forest temple for example being a game of hide and seek between you and the Poe sisters, or Freeing the gorons from their cells in the fire temple, gradually destroying layers of the central pillar in MM’s Snowhead temple, etc. Would also help if the dungeons themselves were fairly lengthy and not just a few shrine puzzles stapled together. Dungeon crawling is a vital component that made dungeons so special, which has unfortunately also been somewhat reduced with recent games. Hope it makes a return eventually.

[@Winsii]

This was the first temple I played through when the game came out and I remember really liking it and thinking that it was a big step in the right direction after Breath of the Wild, and then just being a bit more disappointed with the other dungeons.

[@Amadeus.Herrera]

I completely agree it was the same for me. I enjoyed Colgeras fight, but the fire temple was a downer especially because it looks so cool when you first find it. I want to forget about the water temple, I act as if it never existed 😂

[@cabron1984]

That lead up to the dungeon was really dope, I need to replay this game

[@daniel8181]

I'm glad someone finally said it, ive been confused since launch that people kept saying the fire temple was the only "zelda" dungeon, when lightning was the definition of a zelda dungeon.

[@nightpups5835]

The weakest part of the dungeon for me was that central room, with the activator switches. The 'hardest' switch for me was actually the one hidden behind the block. Otherwise, it was probably the best dungeon of the 4. I think the Wind Temple was the most cinematic, and the fire temple had the best potential, and I think the Water temple had the best character stories.

[@nightpups5835]

I'll be honest, my biggest flaw in this dungeon might be because my dumb luck happening to just waltzing through the second part of the dungeon.

[@skc4188]

Very amazing dungeon with a fantastic boss battle. My favorite in the game and the whole questline preceding it renewed my admiration towards Riju

[@DavisPetersen-k7u]

Lol I never knew that you could Set up for the Town invasion. Neat!

[@CaptBurgerson]

They… they do tell you, did you mash through the dialogue? Not tryna be mean, genuinely wondering how you missed that

[@chewbleema]

I'm obviously consuming as much zelda content before school starts again so I'm finally caught up! Woohoo Great video, hella dungeon. Thanks for keeping these videos digestible and fun!

[@iam...totallytherion3732]

Those gibdo spawners flanking the queen gibdo fight? I never notice them. I had no idea where all these gibdos were coming from as I cleared out the first room.

[@88Tyler]

I just came across your channel tonight. I absolutely loved everything about this video!! I look forward to checking out more! Great fuc*ing job man!

[@7th_hokage944]

My fav dungeon of the game!! Such a nostalgic touch with the mirrors!❤

[@_kevosan]

Watched this earlier on Patreon and it was another wonderful episode. Loved how they switched it up by fighting the dungeon boss at the beginning and immediately hooking you on something. I also remember losing my mind at the Tower of the Gods style reveal for the temple LOL. Overall the Gerudo region is probably the strongest in the game. Looking forward to that next episode!

[@LunaP1]

I hated this place. Not for it as a whole, but for the new enemy type and its boss.😖 (I did not need a new reason to have a makeshift night light in my room.) This was a crazy dungeon and even more crazy to get to with an entire area of Hyrule under an unnatural disaster. The first time we get to run around Gerudo Town without limitations, it is under siege from the Gibdo invasion.

[@RoSoliTaire]

I was so happy that one of the main towns has been finally subdued by monsters. As terrible as that sounds, it's been baffling to me that no moster has ever penetrated Rito Village, Goron City, Zora's Domain or Gerudo Town before despite the looming threats and abudance of monsters. When I got to Gerudo Town, I was astonished how desolate it was and was definitely sad that the people have been driven away (or worse killed) by these myserious new monsters. That fact also makes the threat more scary since they were able to overwhelm the Gerudo warriors, possible the mightiest warriors in all of Hyrule. I freaking loved it when we defended the town from the horde of gibdo zombies. I agree that there should've been more of them. I NEED MORE MOMENTS FIGHTING ALONGSIDE THE BEST WARRIORS! It was definitely the highlight of the game for me.

[@themastersword1621]

I generally enjoyed all of TOTK's dungeons, but the Lightning Temple was hands down the best. The perfect example of what open world Zelda dungeons could be even when eschewing the typical lock and key format. Not just a good open world Zelda dungeon, but just a good Zelda dungeon altogether.

[@LARKXHIN]

This was so much fun. Still haven't beaten Gibdo tho, but the dungeon was fun.

[@hlk323]

This was actually my first temple! Loved it for the challenge!

[@hectorlackless]

Also something to note, the gibdo queen is probably the boss fight that benefits the most of the other champion's habilitied (except tulin but that is a traversal hability anyway) since you can make her and her hive vulnerable using Sidon and yunobo. Maybe another product of being intended to be the last sage boss.

[@Artemicion]

Lightning Temple was most definitely one of the highlights of TOTK. Hard agree that the more structured, cheese-limited design of the dungeon made it substantially better than it's peers, and I think this is probably the best dungeon out of both TOTK and BOTW. Personally, I would have liked even more of the first half of the dungeon: exploring hallways and pathways, resolving minor puzzles to move forward - Indiana Jones vibes is completely accurate. But otherwise I'm in agreement with you: no real complaints here about not just the dungeon but the entire Gerudo questline. Fantastic video! And I'm glad you got to make a pure-positive catharsis piece. :)

[@anubion42]

This was by far my favourite temple in tears, no contest. Im so glad i did this one fourth (i went water, wind, fire, lightning, spirit) Because if it was my first dungeon i would of been more disappointed with the rest. As much as i still want classic dungeons back, The lightning temple is probably the best can expect out of the "terminal" dungeons. If the next game's dungeons are all like the lightning, I'm okay with that. The atmosphere was there, it reminded me alot of OOT's spirit temp, Like you said the empty town and trying to navigate the sand. the surprise of queen gibby at the entrance was refreshing. Defending the town was fun and i loved the detail of the gerudo guards using lizalfo horns on their spears. All around it's the best in totk by far. Imo only the spirit temple can compare. Its a fight for 3rd imo. I really hope when the devs say they "fixed: the dungeons from botw, they are talking about the spirit or lightning temples, not the water or fire. (spoiler winds 3rd imo)

[@777Rowen]

I’m currently in this dungeon right now. Love your analysis

[@Zvoosh25]

This dungeon and the Stormwind Ark were incredible, for totally different reasons. Stormwind was a great introduction to the game with fantastic spectacle, lore, theory and exploration. This dungeon was hard, puzzle filled, interconnected, labyrinthian, and progressive in its puzzles. They both had amazing lead ups, which helped hype up these dungeons so well. Gorondia was solid, a bit easy to work around the puzzles, and the Wellspring was abysmal.

[@heyheyitsjae2475]

18:27 This quote actually highlights one of my biggest gripes with the Lightning Dungeon. You can sequence break to skip an entire 3rd of the dungeon, and the game actively encourages you to do so. (That ironically goes against your point on Riju and at 22:48) If you look at the map at 18:11 You've got the entrance to the dungeon, a long corridor, a long bridge, and then a fork in the road. I decided to take the short path first, as in most games that's where the secrets are. In that next room there were a couple of gibdos in tombs. In the back of the room there was a little staircase/raised platform that (if memory serves) didn't even contain a chest or any sort of loot. A perfectly square raised area, at least to me, seemed like something intended for ascension, but you can't go back from ascension, so I decided to go back later. I went for the other path and was met with a big fire trap on the wall. As I got close Riju said something along the lines of "we can't continue this way, we should look for a different path." At first I thought, that's a bit absurd. The fire is turning off from time to time and I could block it off with something, I could definitely get through here. But every other time the game had said "I don't think we should go that way" I was missing something or unprepared for what was along the path so I took her word for it and decided to find another way. I looked at the map and realized that point I tried to ascend lined up perfectly with a staircase in the back of the basement, so I thought "oh maybe I'm supposed to go through the basement backwards to open a path for Riju, why else would the game be giving me a skip to the other side (in a way) of this trap right next to where she's telling me to turn around?" So I ascended into the next room where I was met with two surprises. Surprise 1 was that the door was completely closed off from this side and I couldn't open it. Surprise 2 was Riju just warped to my location. So at that point I was confused, why had the game pointed me this way if I didn't need to deactivate the trap form here. But, high on my own copium, I looked at the rest of the map and realized that there were lots of areas with staircases or ascension points, so I figured that maybe you looped back around and downwards at some point, like that big tower in the Fire Temple, and I'd do the basement later. Fast forward to all the terminals being done and the elevator coming online and I still hadn't done the basement. I missed out on a fire trap, a cool boulder puzzle, a gibdo fight, and a captain construct fight all because the game told me "find another way." I went to what felt the obvious other way was, and it skipped everything.

[@tetra1767]

🎉 This was definitely my favorite dungeon in totk! They did a great job of blending new and old styles, and i love Riju 😍 I agree with Rin that it felt a bit like different dev teams worked on the msq in each region, which might explain the vast differences in the four dungeons. I only wish that they had done something to ensure some consistency, if the multi-team theory is true! 😅 This dungeon itself has the best atmosphere and puzzles imo. The common closeness is so different from the rest of the game, like you observed, and it was a great change of pace! I adore all of the different instruments used in the music here! Very much reminds me of the Prince of Persia movie soundtrack... I never played the game 😬 im over the terminal structure, but this was definitely the best handled version of it in this game. Also cheese proof!👌🏼(even though i love cheese 😝) Making the player engage more with the environment and work their way through puzzles is exactly what players should want. It's more fun and more interesting that way! I really enjoyed the boss battle here too! The size of the arena was appropriate for the queen's size, and allowed the added enemies to feel like the right amount of challenge instead of overwhelming for me, and the fight was just fun to do! Thank you so much for making this video!! Another great one in the books 👍🏼🎉 looking forward to what comes next! 💚🍔👑

[@michaellane5381]

This dungeon actually had plenty of cheese and side entrances... I don't know how but most are nigh impossible to find your first time, I actually backtracked to the Temple and entered through a room I hadn't solved to get to the boss room because I completely missed a mirror floor and used a mirror in a way I wasn't supposed to despite thinking it was required.

[@CaptBurgerson]

Alternative solutions I don't really count as cheesing. Cheesing something is finding an easier way to get through something. Sounds like the weird things you accomplished there are harder to pull off from the intended method. Ergo, not really cheese

[@michaellane5381]

@@CaptBurgerson I suppose I should explain, you do not actually need ANY other light source to enter the final boss room, just 1, you can use hoverstone and mirror cheese to bypass most side-rooms.

[@lcding8349]

Perfect Video. Instant Sub. THANK YOU SO MUCH FOR THIS! Finally a person that doesn’t just review bomb the dungeon just because it’s Open-Air. Your explanation is perfect. This game’s dungeons deserve a spot in the Top Ten best dungeons in Zelda.

[@ethanapplefeld870]

God your videos are so amazing. Can’t wait to see more from your channel!!

[@robertsuzuka3431]

Great video ! Personaly It was my first dungeon, since I loved the gerudo desert in botw (and that the spirit temple is my second favorite dungeon off all time) I came here right from the begining, and how boy, it was tought ! I didn't had any ability (well execpted for the paraglider) nor clothes or items to make potions or food. I literaly cross the desert by hiding in the shadow the day and using a torch the night. The gerudo town fight was hard as well cause I had almost no heart or weapons. And It was the best, I really felt like I had to survive my way in, and when I saw the lighting dungeon... boy I was happy, I mean A pyramid ?! With tombs, Gibdos, traps, and well done mirror puzzles ?! And Real good boss !

[@RealAlphaDrum]

OoT has trained me to treat the Gerudo areas as last. In my first playthrough I did the Gerudo area last, water first, wind, then fire, but in my most recent playthrough, i set up all the dungeons' access points and revisited them well after that and finished the Lightning Temple first, then Wind, Fire, then Water. By the time I had the first sage, I already had all 20 Sage Wills, to put it in perspective. Side note, I don't really count the Spirit Temple as a dungeon.

[@Rhakimdar]

I absolutely loved this temple! I ended up doing it second because I hoped the ability would be offensive related like in botw. not quite as damaging as Urbosa's fury but strong. I also love riju as a character and almost everything about the gerudo town in botw and totk made them even better. Can't tell you how long I spent trying to free the guy who is in prison just for trying to see his children xD. Water temple was my first and Sidon actually came in super clutch here. His water barrier protected me from the extreme heat allowing me to traverse without having to gather the other armor sets! was super fun and rewarding to figure out how to utilize the games mechanics in various ways to survive the harsh environment without the armor pieces as I had to instead use food and other sources of cold and heat instead.

[@Nebyulosity]

The Lighting Temple is definitely a step in the right direction, but it was still too small and short, lacked in enemy variety, and also suffers from the Wild Era Zelda's lack of unique tools unlocked within a dungeon. The Lightning Temple did a good job of having a game mechanic that tied it together (mirrors and light beams), but to me it felt like a fraction of a full dungeon. They certainly got the unique atmosphere and theme down, even having enemies unique to the dungeon, but it was still just gibdos. While gibdos were pretty fun enemies, past Zelda dungeons each had a variety of enemies that were unique to the dungeon/area, AND varied in their combat difficulty/mechanics. Finally, while the sage abilities sort of give the feeling of unique dungeon items from past games, the way you use them is too simplistic. They're essentially just glorified key cards for BotW style terminals, rather than being the surprise missing "puzzle piece" that dungeon items in other Zelda games are. In past Zelda games you are often shown a puzzle that you can't solve because it's missing some "puzzle piece". The dungeon items are that piece that you must find and figure out how to fit into the overall puzzle. That being said, I clearly have a bias toward traditional 3D Zelda dungeons. I just don't enjoy the directionless openness of the Wild Era Zelda games. To me it's boring and antithetical to the "Hero's Journey" adventure of other 3D Zelda games that I appreciate. I understand that some people like BotW's "wondering through the wilderness" type of adventure, but to me that's just never been what Zelda is best at (even BotW and TotK falls short of that type of adventure for me). I can get that kind of adventure better from other games.

[@CaptBurgerson]

Curious how you'll feel once the video is actually released, because a lot of what you say here does come up in the script 🤔

[@athena.banana]

wait which games give you a "wandering through the wilderness" feeling that is better than botw/totk? please share because i want to play those games. thanks 👍

[@CaptBurgerson]

Same question lol

[@zfreak1234]

100% with you, thank you for having typed it out, I‘m happy to see that someone understands me😆🤝🏼

[@Nebyulosity]

@@athena.banana So for me personally: - Minecraft. The procedural generation kind of emulates a natural chaos that reminds of when I'd explore the wilderness near my home as a child. The thing about Minecraft's worlds is that there aren't really many "rewards" or "landmarks" that are intentionally placed by a designer. The worlds are just brought into being by an ordered yet chaotic algorithm. When I see an interesting shaped structure in Minecraft, it reminds me of finding eroded arroyo grottos, sandstone hoodoos, and caves under massive sandstone slabs that were crumbling away as a child. - Subnautica (if you don't mind the ocean version of wandering and some thalassophobia here and there). Subnautica's world is quite beautiful on it's own, but it's also got some well hidden secrets (some of which are "time capsules" that are spawned randomly in the world by other players). You can scan flora and fauna to get little blurbs that give you a sense of what the ecosystem is like. Subnautica's story is also told in a way that manages to retain a satisfying narrative sequence and tone while still allowing you to explore freely by using a soft progression gating (kinda like BotW's environmental hazards but with more ompf, so that you can't really cheese them). If I could remake BotW and TotK's memory system, I'd want it to take inspiration from how Subnautica tells it's story. I'm tempted to include Skyrim and Oblivion, but a big reason why I'd include those on this list might be because I've played them with mods that open the structure of the games up just a little bit so you can roleplay more freely. I'd also include Metroid Prime and the Halo trilogy, but those are likely more specific to people who played them when they came out. Both games have certain areas with really immersive natural environments and atmosphere. Halo in particular had a lot of levels with certain liminal spaces that weren't part of the level's critical path, which I remember giving me a similar feeling that Minecraft's un-designed worlds give me. It's kind of hard to describe exactly why all these games give me that feeling better the BotW and TotK. I guess to me nature doesn't have a "purpose" in a human sense. Nature just exists by some complex process that's not always easy to wrap your head around. The games I listed all either have these sort of liminal areas that feel un-designed/purposeless and/or they have very strong immersive atmospheres. I think I may not have felt that as strongly in BotW because I found myself painfully aware of the guiding design of its world, and it was like I couldn't really escape it. So many areas had a game design purpose (and usually it was one of a few predictable purposes, e.g. a korok puzzle, a shrine, or a monster camp). I guess I'd compare it more to following a trail that had already been traveled rather than wandering unguided in an unknown wilderness.