The Linux AX.25 Stack: A Forgotten Feature That Is Used To Talk To Space Stations!

[@bartlomiejm0]

next episode: how to send fax via command line using some obscure protocol (using pre-alpha ReactOS)

[@Mic_Glow]

I bet there is a needle-printer somewhere running on unprotected network, using home-brew retrofitted gear that would print it out. Probably in cellar of some govt building

[@FPVogel]

@@bartlomiejm0 everything to do with telephone is absolutely convoluted and just straight up fucked because there is so much legacy. We would need to invent a not-backwards compatible Telephony 2 and push it to all Android devices and all iPhones.

[@Vitosi4ek1]

@@FPVogel We already have Telephony 2 and it's called VoIP. We literally built infrastructure completely independent from the existing telephone network to enable it. Making people switch, however, is hard when the legacy option still works fine enough.

[@TheCablebill]

This would be ITU T.30 with T.4 orT.6 and a successor, T.38. I developed SW for this around 1990 and sold it for over a decade to enterprises that needed to interface their *nix systems with legacy equipment (fax machines).

[@lucyinchat]

To the one place uncorrupted by proprietary software, Space! Secondarily, I am the target audience for this video.

[@whamer100]

as someone who has just finished taking an astronomy course, i too am the target audience for this

[@kvatikoss1730]

me too

[@SIGMA_BLYAT]

DO I LOOK LIKE I CARE?

[@dashorken]

Ax.25 is still alive and kicking be it through AGW, TCP-KISS, KISS or yes.. native Linux (I'm the maintainer of Linpac for Linux). if you come back to the project, check out packet over HF, AMPRnet, the many pockets of large packet networks in Northern California, etc. All this works for Linux, Mac, Windows and more.

[@NCommander]

I will likely revisit the AMPRnet part of the video I was forced to cut due to the change in life circumstances at some point in the future, and if/when I have access to HF, see if I can get someone to route packets across a continent or two.

[@Botkilla2K12]

Came for the linux kernel stayed for the obscure radio lore. Good vid

[@NCommander]

The radio stuff is the best part, glad you enjoyed it. I felt it was a good way to introduce the radio part without being too off-topic.

[@SunSin91]

@@NCommander well scripted video !

[@codewizard58]

I wrote an X25 driver for Ultrix in the mid 80s. In the UK JANET was initially OSI based stack and later switched to TCP/IP : )

[@jonstill2657]

Thanks for the video. Nice to see a video on AX.25 by someone who clearly understands it, rather than just a “how to use it” video. Cheers and I hope your life changes bring you whatever it is you need the most!

[@NCommander]

Yeah, quite a few KZbinrs have covered contacting the iss but don’t really talk about the tech behind it

[@scsirob]

Heh.. I ran a HAM radio Packet Radio node in The Netherlands (PI1NOS/PI8NOS). When I switched to Linux I found a couple of bugs in the 8530 SCC driver, submitted patches for it. Nice to see the subsystem is still there!

[@chinesepopsongs00]

I did run a node for a short period also in the Netherlands, i was not so much a radio nerd but was in it as a computer nerd. I did have the knowledge about radio equipment due to school and my first job in electronics at a company that actually did things with radio devices and had lots of very expensive measurment/diagnostics equipment. I did forget my callsign as i was not a radio nerd it was only significant for me when running the node after that it had no sentimental value for me so i did forget.

[@0tter501]

I was really happy when you need a chromebook hacked, i had fun helping on the stream also, hope everything you are trying is working irl

[@Tropics09-o6d]

@@0tter501 chromebook hacking is so fun. I did it to my own and now i daily drive it

[@NCommander]

Appreciate your help!

[@NCommander]

It's been a nice backup machine or just something lighter than my MBP when I want to compute in a cramped place.

[@team_alt_und_blind]

Used it for packet radio on CB in Germany in the mid 90s! Thanks for this professional made Video!

[@NCommander]

Glad you enjoyed it!

[@bennetfox]

Aww man I haven't seen a make menuconfig or compile a Linux kernel in a looooooong time!!

[@ThePolishCan]

did not expect a life update in the video, wow, back on the track... So the kernel stack works, but it needs to work better. That keyboard to keyboard communication was a nice addition, so was the mention of packet radio BBS-s, which I didn't even know they existed (imagine, we could have the BBS back in the 70's...). Good vid

[@NCommander]

Well, I wasn't sure how to end it since I didn't have the footage to finish it as I intended, but I didn't want to give up on what I had.

[@robertfurr4678]

3:48 I have this as a poster on my wall! It was a lucky find at a garage sale and an excellent talking piece, even if it is from the late 90s.

[@TalmidAndy]

It is interesting to listen to an explanation of AX.25 presented as a networking subject for non radio operators.

[@NCommander]

I wanted to present it to a wider audience, not just people who are into amateur radio.

[@milohoffman274]

From what I remember you can use the Linux AX.25 to actually do an IP connection (very slow) over packet and but actually telnet or ftp between two stations over packet radio.

[@NCommander]

That was on the unmade part of the video but you can see some clips of me doing so in the final product

[@georgH]

I've always wondered about the radio section in the kernel, and finally I know a bit! Thank you that was amazing!

[@NCommander]

Glad it was helpful!

[@torchristofferson8742]

This is the first video of yours I have seen and most definitely earned my subscription! I'm a long time ham and Linux nerd. You explained things extremely well in this video.

[@NCommander]

Thanks for the subscription, I’m glad it clicked with you.

[@supernenechi]

I have watched just 2 minutes of this video and I immediately decided to subscribe! This is amazing!

[@MrHolozip]

That was awesome - thank you for taking the time to upload this and share. Hope your adventures serve you well!

[@NCommander]

Thank you! Will do!

[@sereysothe.a]

hope you're doing well on this new journey!

[@NCommander]

I am but it’s been a lot of up and down

[@MaxUgly]

You have a knack for niche like no other! Always facinating stuff from Ncommander, man

[@NCommander]

I try to pick things that aren't in the common mainstream. Making it interesting is the hard part

[@MaxUgly]

@NCommander you are the MF DOOM of nerdy yt videos. People that care about all the details and technicalities know you are the the best. You will never be top on views but we know and you won't get caught at diddy's

[@Spookieham]

I have played on and off with AX25 and managed to bounce some packets via the ISS. Remember kids that you need an Amateur Radio licence to transmit this stuff.

[@thebitbeast8483]

5:17 First layer is physical not network. Easier to remember as a sentence: Please Do Not Throw Salami Pizza Away

[@0xphk]

Good luck and best wishes

[@colinstu]

LOVE THIS deep dive. Love obscure parts of linux kernel. And damn, those motif widgets 👌

[@MrPknuts]

Great video, brought back some memories trying to get IP working over AX25 back in the day. 73 de G7RPG

[@opless]

Writing a KISS driver is trivial and throwing networking over random 2.4GHz radios is a thing of beauty ;-)

[@utp216]

Good luck with everything going on in your life. I always look forward to your videos! 🤗

[@NCommander]

Thanks, it’s been an interesting journey.

[@TheMrDrMs]

Yeah, not forgotten at all. Public IPv4 via ax.25 via VHF is something i frequently do. And Winlink - ham email including store/forward servers. Then the biggest one, APRS. I didn't take the time to watch the video, where I hope you went into how it is still used by many, many people daily, and given you said 'talk to space station' I figured you must also be a ham as that's the only way to use aprs with the ISS as ham is an official back up to the back up plan for the ISS comms.

[@gabrielpaiva7161]

Ncommander thanks for the video and safe travels man the most important thing is to have fun

[@NCommander]

It’s been a labor of love, glad you dig it.

[@crusaderanimation6967]

0:30 Not to make y'all feel old but i'm grown working adult and 2001 is before i was even born (last day of 2002)

[@DankEngine710]

@@crusaderanimation6967 eh I’m 25 and still only view myself as a child with a drinking permit.

[@naguam-postowl1067]

The French Minitel used x25. I also think that before pppoe or pppoatm there were some providers using ppp over x25.

NGL, most of your videos are a bit too technical for me and at least twenty nerd levels above myself, but this one was super cool. I only have a cursory understanding of amateur radio, and this was a great showcase of what neat things you dan do with it. And then some obscure vintage Linux tech to boot.

[@NCommander]

Glad you enjoyed it!

[@SunSin91]

excellent video !!

[@scootergirl3662]

I shared this with all m equally nerdy friends so they can nerdgasm as well. Even if you weren't able to finish the project, I learned a lot of cool stuff

[@shrdinc]

Wishing you the best. Your smart you got this!

[@NCommander]

It's been a struggle but I'm managing ...

[@kwinzman]

There is a bit of an error at 5:43: TCP famously exists at OSI layer 4, not at layer 3!

[@NCommander]

Well IP is layer 3, and TCP is layer 4; i could have explained that better but I didn’t get to the AMPRnet part of the video

[@scienide77]

Packet radio, good old times!

[@dnel83]

As a ham and network operator, I'm right in the middle of this venn diagram !

[@NCommander]

Perfectly balanced as all things should:)

[@unitazer]

mythical beyond my comprehension youtube recommendation pull

[@VE1XT]

Great video :)

[@anidnmeno]

this is fascinating and i wonder why i'm not into this already... new hobby unlocked?

[@NCommander]

Welcome to the club!

[@AnotherFreakingDude]

doing all this while on a cheap chromebook really wraps it all together.

[@NCommander]

I knew I was going to use it for a radio project; it just took a bit of time to figure out what that project was going to be.

[@cocusar]

oh that doc is from Jeff Tranter, who also has an excellent youtube channel. Interesting to see that!

[@Rilch]

Very cool video! I'm from portland as well. Been wanting to get my amature radio opperaters license for a while. Kind of just want to get a HAM radio setup in my car.

[@NCommander]

I was in Portland for a little while; getting a ham license is a great goal! The technician license is mostly just knowing basic radio theory and the fcc regs

[@MrWaalkman]

I got my start in Linux when I went looking for HAM protocols. I found AX.25, and discovered Linux as a by-product. I've been using Linux ever since. I never did use AX.25. :)

[@drbirdie]

If you can get to Illinois, I can give you a place to stay and help you find work in the computing industry.

[@NCommander]

I appreciate the offer, but right now Im letting life take me where it will; if I end up in IL I’ll be in touch

[@StanleytheCat-v8z]

Gotta love radio.

[@Ozzy_Helix_]

this might be useful to saveitforparts

[@gljames24]

I know it from looking into APRS for my school's rocket club.

[@local-admin]

3:31 you TRICKED ME

[@local-admin]

Jk I’m here for the rf knowledge ❤

[@kbhasi]

(13:58) I think that may likely be a bug with Xwayland when rendering Motif/OpenMotif apps, as I've seen similar glitches when I decided to load up ImageMagick Display out of curiosity in a Debian unstable VM I spun up for a different task. I seemed to recall that in Raspberry Pi OS based on Debian 12, Raspberry Pi Desktop dropped X Window System support entirely and became Wayland-only, so that's understandable.

[@josnardstorm]

Pedantic network engineer here, for an “um, actually”… It’s not quite right to say that KZbin is an application and therefore sits in the application layer. The Application layer (Layer 7, L7) of the OSI model does not refer to applications on the computer, but rather network protocols for applications to use. In the case of KZbin, it would be more accurate to say that KZbin uses HTTPS (a L7 protocol) to send data over the network.

[@NCommander]

Technically, you're correct - the best kind of correct, but I went more for something the general public would understand, vs. the literal meaning from the OSI stack.

[@josnardstorm]

@ makes sense! Great video overall, though! I'd never heard of AX.25 before

[@da411d]

I didn't understand almost anything, but that's very interesting

[@LonSeidman]

Good stuff and 73! KC1RGS

[@TreverMcBride]

I hope whatever place you find yourself in life goes well. Living out of a backpack sounds nice almost like a never ending adventure, but at the same time scary. Currently, I have no idea what I want to do in my life. I live in an apartment and am working and going to college at the same time and I know I'm not going to pass all my classes this semester because everyday when I come home from work I just want to sleep from using my brain all day. If you don't mind me asking how do support yourself income wise while living out of a backpack, do you find local gigs where your staying or something else?

[@NCommander]

I appreciate the concern, and I’m sure you’ll figure out your life path - you just have to let it happen; right now I have money saved up

[@minecraft2048]

This feels very weird to me... we still use ax25 for cubesats, but these days its all gnuradio and SDRs and tun interfaces

[@NCommander]

I tried to reach a few cubesats but my quick and dirty antenna setup couldn’t hear them

[@win7best]

Isn't there a thing called business band wich is license free?

[@NCommander]

There are a few which are either license free or just require a fee

[@isheamongus811]

10:18 what software ru using on this Chromebook?

[@isheamongus811]

5:51 accually level 1 is phisical

[@williamgraham2468]

KD2JRT de VE6UUG Nice to see an AX.25 video. I had similar digipeated frames from the Space Shuttle (SAREX), and the MIR space station. I need to get back into packet radio...

[@NCommander]

If I got really lucky, it should still be theorically possible to get a packet through ISS to PCSAT-1 to cross the atlantic.

[@rockpie.iso.tar.bz2]

i'm going to recompile my postmarketOS Honor Holly kernel with this kernel option edit: did you add the wrong description?

[@rockpie.iso.tar.bz2]

update: only after NCommander hearted my comment did i remember to compile the kernel. also it compiled successfully and the config check was successful!

[@503ali]

Awesome thanks

[@maze7_7]

Vila Franca de Xira! Portugal mentioned c@aralho!

[@brandonupchurch7628]

It's sad to think how many less used or now antiquated drivers in the Linux kernel only have comprehensive documentation on the original creator\maintainer's personal website or an old website they created at a university or the like that may go offline at some point and not be well preserved in the web archive even and then the documentation and possibly early versions of the driver prior to it being committed may be lost forever.

[@alextalker5979]

It is ironic how they put KISS into the configuratuonal tools which seem ain't that *simple* to use 😂😂😂

[@aperturesignaturebandwidth]

Nice you ever try meshtastic ?

[@rawexploiterp6951]

ah wild I didn't think I would see something about amateur radio here. I don't use linux much but I do use hsmodem or soundmodem to receive a lot of cubesats on UHF/70cm ham band. those are usually AX.25 and AX.100 mode 5

[@NCommander]

Glad you're into this! Honestly I was afraid people would immediately click off

[@thezipcreator]

I think your description is about the wrong thing lol

[@NCommander]

Fixed, thanks!

[@JLeeHughesKCHWA]

you seemmm A+

[@tech-vp5xe]

Hi all, I'm currently still using this. It's still a big part of what protects us.

[@NCommander]

No one cares about amateur radio until the disaster hits and its the only thing still working.

[@thenurgent]

6:18 802.3 frames aren't used in WiFi, 802.11 frames are!

[@NCommander]

Oops

[@milhousevanhoutan9235]

In your depiction of the OSI model you forgot the source of most errors- Layer 8, the user. Incendtally I just had to solve a layer 8 problem before I found this video (I forgot to properly enable networking and dns resolution when I nuked my bare metal windows install and moved arch to my nvme).

[@NCommander]

It's the number one reason why things break, that's for sure

[@mrobinson9297]

ive used ax25 a little to work with packet bbs systems. but i havnt tried to get it to work over IP

[@stefanengler772]

There is a north korean ham operator ... it's unique.

[@NCommander]

I believe there have been three confirmed P5 activations, but all three cases were foreign hams given permission by North Korea to operate from Pyongyang.

[@isheamongus811]

5:22 we could aregue wheteher HTTP lies on 6 or 7

[@benjaminreynolds3659]

What planet was the ISS flying over?

[@MweyaRuider]

@@benjaminreynolds3659 Kerbin

[@thewhitefalcon8539]

Kerbin

[@NCommander]

Kerbin

[@ChandrashekarCN]

💖💖💖💖

[@fernwood]

Bro, dip your toe into the DigiPi Rpi distro. The author (I’m ashamed to say I can’t remember his name or call) has a fully configured ax25 stack with all kinds of goodies, including zork.

[@littlek3000]

Why do content creators feel the need to put text in the bottom right corner, exactly where the length counter of the video is, so the counter is covering up whatever useless words are in the bottom right corner? It's not like the same thumbnail format hasn't been used by youtube for nearly 20 years.

[@NCommander]

No, that's the basic YT watermark - its not burnt into the video, it just changes based on the device you're using.

[@kb037]

*puts on nerd glasses* ACKSHUALLY TCP/IP falls under the transport layer not the network layer.

[@jimw7916]

there is no space. its all a lie.

[@NCommander]

Space Core is sad.

[@atlasfugged9044]

im a bit of an N commander myself

[@BradleyBrown]

First I've seen of your videos, and this is a great breakdown of AX.25 and its history, much I haven't learned yet! de KC1JMH