The Lion King Debate No One Wants To Have

[@anonymousvids2146]

Little detail, when Kovu starts to really embrace the pride lands, he retracts his claws, while the outlander adults chosing rage constantly have the claws out. Damn, this might be the most likes I have ever gotten on a post.

[@TJ2T-MAL]

Damn all these years and I never caught that good on you. Thank you, good looking out.

[@oceancampbell]

Scar also always has his claws out in the original

[@yumekoslefttoenail6746]

its interesting considering that lions can't retract their claws 😭

[@SilverSabertooth]

@@yumekoslefttoenail6746 Pretty sure you're thinking of cheetahs. Lions do have retractable claws.

[@yumekoslefttoenail6746]

@@SilverSabertooth google isn't giving me a straight answer sob

[@OwenMiller-q2g]

Added Debate: They should've kept Zira's original death scene in the movie. Where she's personally so consumed by her own despise and hatred to the Pridelanders and vengeance for Scar, that she purposefully let go of the cliff she was dangling by and callously whispering "No...NEVER!" all the while smiling as she falls to her death. Even if it's considered suicide, so be it, they should've kept it; it just makes the original scene about her death seem more awkward, where it feels like she accidentally let go but is still smiling.

[@moon4236]

The original death scene also serves as a great contrast to Scar's death scene

[@TDArulesclub4]

In a way it does really set Zira and Scar apart. At least Scar tried to beg for mercy when Simba almost 'killed Jim' but Zira full on rejected any help and chose her own fate.

[@voiceofthelegion578]

They probably would have but I bet executives told them to change it for censorship

[@Quarter_BeetheSkid]

⁠​⁠@@TDArulesclub4somewhat, yeah. But Scar kinda rejected help too, he begged for a chance and immediately threw it away to get the upper hand. He doesn’t want help, he wants power. He also doesn’t want to die, and was even willing to beg the hyenas not to hurt him because he wanted to rule the Pridelands, willing to work from the bottom up again. Zira had much more pride than Scar, though, and when faced with death, she would rather take it and join Scar in the afterlife than accept help from an enemy. What she desired most was revenge, she had something personally against Pridelanders, and that’s why she chose to die instead of accept Kiara’s help. Scar wanted to rule at all costs, even his own pride, and Zira wanted revenge, but was not willing to put her pride aside to get it.

[@DIVINE_WEAP0N]

bruh i thought when i watched it that WAS the ending, im experiencing a mad mendela effect rn lol

[@split776]

"Go home, Zira." -"I AM home" gives me chills every time

[@925263]

She had a few chilling ones. "If you will not fight, you will die as well." "You cannot escape it! Nuka is dead because of you! You've killed your own brother!" "What are you doing out here? And so... alone." "No! Let him go. Simba has hurt me for the last time. Now, he has corrupted Kovu. Listen to me; Simba is injured and weak. Now is the time to attack! We'll take his entire kingdom... by FORCE!!!" "I'LL NEVER LET IT GO!"

[@meaghanscott8352]

He Lives In You is arguably the best song in both films and it’s a crime it’s not talked about enough

[@smelly1060]

THANK YOU!!!!! circle of life doesn't even come close

[@FuzztasticFilms]

@@smelly1060 Oof…that’s a hot take.

[@theshockinglyeloquentdog9945]

It has a full number in the Broadway play so at least it lives on and isn't forgotten

[@TDArulesclub4]

Personally, Circle of Life sounds majestic, but He Lives In You sounds BEAUTIFUL. Always makes me tear up just a bit.

[@smelly1060]

@@theshockinglyeloquentdog9945 it's so beautiful on Broadway/west end

[@Emz_yelevele]

This sequel is an example of what a good sequel should strive to be even without the budget of the original. You CAN tell that love, thought and detail was put into the story, characters and visuals, even if the budget was definitely lower. The soundtrack is iconic, the characters are compelling and well developed, the story fits neatly into the franchise and deserves respect as it's own movie even if the first movie didn't exist. I genuinely think that if THIS was the first movie instead of the original, only with more budget for the animation ofc, it would have been nearly as loved as the original. The only issue it has is that Scar's followers and Zira weren't really in the first movie.. Which is not that much of a mistake on the movie itself in my opinion. The first movie was never supposed to have a sequel, it just didn't leave that much to work off of. The movie needed a villain and continuation of the story, and I think it did pretty well. It wouldn't have felt as personal if the rival pride had nothing to do with Simba's pride and Scar. Good ideas sometimes just come late.

[@unripetheberrby6283]

Totally agree ^^

[@daflamedfz2517]

In some ways it could even make a lot of sense - we know lionesses were sent hunting a lot further away from pride rock, and Nala might not've been alone in looking for help. Plus the Scar VS Simba fight starts with Simba admitting to killing Mufasa - then suddenly switches to him accusing Scar of murdering his father. For any lioness who isn't aware of the story, what does that really look like? It's Uncle and Nephew fighting for the Throne. And yeah it's clear Scar isn't a good leader, he is still good at manipulating others. Down to his very end he's manipulating the situation to try and call himself a victim to Simba. And it's stated Kovu isn't even Scar's kid. But Nuka is. Meaning that technically Simba would've needed to fight them for the throne too. Which ofc wasn't done, and could very very easily be explained by the fact they're still young cubs. Nuka looks barely a year older than Kovu. We can gleam from the dialogue in TLK2 that the Outlander Pride wasn't instantly cast out either. It probably took a bit before Simba had to make that choice, enough for Kovu to be very scared of Simba when they meet in the movie if Kovu and Kiara are nearish the same age, with Kovu being maybe a month or so older at best. Long enough to cast doubt in the minds of the younger members of the Pride at least. Possibly just the ones who Scar took in- potentially as a long term manipulation tactic. "Better in a Pride then lost and alone out there." And we know Zira isn't above manipulation herself. "You wouldn't be here if Scar hadn't let you in." Plus Simba's overprotective nature over Kiara might've started coming in even before she was born. Distrust of outsiders mixed with himself technically bringing in outsiders in Timone and Pumba is not the best look when you don't know the full story. Or don't believe the full story. So yeah Zira could've been lying in wait for a while before getting a force big enough to try and attack Simba, getting her and Scar's supporters kicked out.

[@KeylaKey________]

I always thought that Zira and the others was outcasted after Scar's death. Some lionesss might have choosed to remain loyal to Scar till the end, after all, Scar was a big manipulator. After Scar's death, his remained followers start to cause trouble in the Pride Lands and were outcasted by Simba.

[@LoreSpill]

I occasionally quote "Deception, disgrace, evil as plain as the scar on his face" from time to time since I first saw The Lion King 2. It's such a good song (and I can't help but picture Simba rehearsing 'Not One of Us' with the other animals while Kiara and Kovu are distracted with 'Upendi')

[@nancyswift8090]

Omggggggg everytime I hear someone say "deception" I start singing this song in my head. I'm so glad I'm not the only one

[@LoreSpill]

@@nancyswift8090 not to mention the dramatic lowering of the voice for 'he asked for trouble the moment he came'

[@boneguardsteel994]

Oo that song did it. It’s a core memory

[@LionGrl3212]

​@@nancyswift8090haha i do that too

[@hotchic4000]

I still like to look up that scene occasionally and sing to it lol

[@j-Splash]

When Kiara tells Simba that he will NEVER be Mufasa, I think that was the moment he started to think about his role the most

[@Steakeater400]

I watched the sequel way more often than the first one

[@pheenixgryphon7857]

Same. I just love the whole situation with Zira, Kovu and her ragtag pride of lions. Also ey, fellow Helluva Boss fan.

[@No-longer1]

Same. Zira as a villian and Kiara as a protagonist just felt more compelling to me personally. Kiara felt like one of the few child characters that are geniunenly good hearted- just not in the mischevios way as small simba- while still not being a perfect child. Because when I grew up it allways felt like there was 2 category of kids in any piece of media: spunky kinda asshole boys that *intentionally* cross their parents for funsies or perfect goody two children that allways behave perfectly, usually girls. And none of these felt relatable despite usually presenting them in that angle

[@2a3ylin]

me too but because i was traumatised by mufasas death and was crying all night when i watched it

[@isaiahedmonson5832]

Me too love lion king 2 kovu is a awesome character some with kara

[@0deadx21]

I'm amazed _Mufasa_ referenced _The Lion Guard_ by giving Kiara a younger brother. Sure they didn't give him a name, but still.

[@Anti.BluBird]

But it's also confusing because the lion guard made us believe that his family has lived in the pride lands for generations.

[@0deadx21]

@@Anti.BluBird Did you not get the memo that the animated characters and the live-action characters are not the same characters. I'm fine with live-action Mufasa and Scar's backstory because no matter what it doesn't in anyway impact the animated TLK canon.

[@MysRyuza]

@@Anti.BluBirdIt’s a separate canon

[@BlanketStitcher]

@@Anti.BluBird they actually directly contradict each other with scar’s backstory Lion guard: snake bite Live action: Kiros Not to mention the differences in zazu’s personality

[@ziriebenton6659]

Seems like the live-action Lion King movies are gonna be a separate canon that ties different stuff together and gives background to characters. All the stuff throughout the years that gave different origins to stuff like Scar and Mufasa’s backstories, some more unknown than others, must be tricky to keep up with for fans so they decided to do this.

[@DaisyKitten18]

You forgot to mention that Mufasa's spirit was the one that wanted Kovu and Kiara together in the first place. And that's why Rafiki played matchmaker for them.

[@mandyharris4]

Good point!

[@falconeshield]

Honestly if the Mufasa movie becomes canon eventually....Kovu NOT being Scar's blood son makes zero sense.

[@callanightshade8079]

​@@falconeshield I agree, though when Lion King 2 was released it was still canon that Scar and Mufasa were biological twin brothers with Mufasa being born first and that's why he was king

[@theinfernus9912]

​@@falconeshield ohhhh because now scar and mufasa aren't no longer blood brothers!!! That would make sense! It almost looks like they did this on purpouse to set the lion king 2 live action so they can have Kovu be the biological son of Scar

[@theinfernus9912]

​@@callanightshade8079twins???

[@sol6645]

The second one was my favorite out of the trilogy when i was a kid - 9yr me is feeling vindicated you finally opened this discussion

[@solosagara6940]

I watched the VHS so much the tape finally just wore out💀

[@AlyaK_]

SAAAAAAAME kid me had this as the fave and my mom would always disagree so i stopped saying that, but this vid vindicated my younger self

[@sailorcat]

Same! I had the second one on DVD and watched it so often. I still love it. The original is a masterpiece, of course. But I was only able to watch it at my aunt's house who had the VHS, which is why I watched the sequel more.

[@ernaeh9923]

I love that somebody finally talks about this!!! The lion king 2 was my favorite Disney movie when I was a child/teen! It's still my comfort movie that I watch a lot when I'm feeling down. I just love Kovus and Kiaras stories and how they find each other and unite their prides. Still Idk if it's actually better than the first from an unbiased perspective. I'd say they're about the same. Great video though!

[@vktroylion9859]

Well I loved reading seeing that I'm not alone with The Lion King 2 that is also still a comfort movie to me and with Kovu and Kiara all time favs of mine.

[@teapam.2119]

Me tooooo. Any time I'm feeling sad or low, I throw it on and I forget 😊

[@creepypasta_is__cool]

I love the lion king 2 it’s my favourite movie

[@WilliamWasp-27]

Agreed, the Lion King 2 is actually underrated like crazy. I really like Simba’s development along with other characters like Kovu & Kiara. Even though I like Kovu more out of the too 😅

[@lifeisadrag7705]

@@vktroylion9859 Me too- it was my first Lion King movie, and so it's my favorite

[@rabbitsedits]

finally someone who doesn't reduce the sequel to its romance plot, but actually acknowledges and appreciates its depth and writing 🙏

[@No-longer1]

The romance plot wasn’t even like the main part of the movie? Atleast it doesn’t have a bigger role than it did in the first movie, where yeah sure it’s important to the plot that Nala romances Simba back into the Pridelands but Kovu’s growing genuine affection towards Kiara is equally important because it ties back into Zira’s plot.

[@deppygcreations784]

Zira's "original" death WAS basically in the movie though??? Am I insane? She DOES reject kiara - she claws at her instead of reaching out. That's rejection, right? And she falls into the water BECAUSE she refused help. Edit: To clarify, they removed her dialogue of "no, never!" but looking at her actions, it's still communicating the same thing.

[@yamigoya8291]

Ig they made it less obvious so parents wouldn't complain

[@muffinsaur.]

yeah, i remember thinking that she denied it even when i was little

[@JackieOwl94]

Lion King 2 was my all-time favorite on VHS as a child. We Are One still gives me shivers and makes me think of the times I spent with my dad as a little girl. But I always thought maybe I had an easier time relating to Kiara than Simba as a kid.

[@mdorey]

Even back when I was a kid, Lion King 2 stood out to me in my mind, it's the one I remember almost every scene of. I was actually flabbergasted to eventually find out that it never went to cinema.

[@bobaparadise9419]

Me too. It was always more fun for me to watch then the original Lion King

[@mandyharris4]

Honestly, if Disney released this in theaters today, I'd go see it 💯 And be that obnoxious person in the background singing along with all the songs 😂😅

[@randomchannel9473]

Someone said it. Thanks for articulating an opinion I have been too scared to voice since I was a child. I've always voiced my love for TLK2, but I've always prefaced it with 'obviously the first one is better', even if I secretly gravitated more towards the sequel. My family is die hard about TLK, so I know where public opinion stands. When we saw the broadway version and they sang a song from the sequel I was genuinely delighted because to me, it has always been a natural part of the lion king experience to watch both. I was a child, I never knew about critical aclaim and one not having a theatrical release, I experienced both (+ the Lion King 1 1/2) as VHS tapes that I would rewatch constantly. To me, the only difference in quality was from the litteral quality of the tapes where I'm pretty sure one was a tv recording and the other an official purchase, but even then, TV itself basically equalised that difference. For the longest time, the sequal was the clear winner to me. Which is probably why the live action re-make and Mufasa felt particularly offensive to me. On the one hand, they acknowledged the sequel existed, but on the other, this is a big budget spin-off and it is objectively worse than movies with so low a budget they never got a theatrical release. Like, they were able to do a better follow-up story years ago. The lack of care that they put into the narrative feels like an insult to the entire ip, lower tier canon spinoff material included (ie, the Lion Gaurd, the Timon and Pumba show, the misc books and other suplimentary material - not saying that they're necessarily worse, just that they are less definitively canon).

[@Maspets]

It's silly to be "scared" to voice your opinion about a movie, although you're still wrong.

[@nanoneko4511]

@@Maspets you're why they're scared XD

[@Maspets]

@@nanoneko4511 I have unpopular opinions all the time, I'm not afraid of disagreement.

[@nanoneko4511]

@@Maspets You understand the difference between a disagreement and 'you're wrong.'

[@randomchannel9473]

@@Maspets people look at you funny. Like, this comment is a bit of an exaggeration, but I was keenly aware it was an unpopular opinion, and I wanted to fit in as a child. Edit: also to add, this is basically my "star wars prequels are good actually" take. Extremely controversial years ago because of "thing that came first is the best" mentality, less of a hot take once the people it was made for grow up and bat for it.

[@TwiKou89]

We can honestly applaud the fact that this sequel actually was given visuals that honestly hold up better than even some of the animation today. It’s naturally not as fluid and vivid as its predecessor but it’s still great.

[@Tumbleweed146-j8n]

I’m glad they continued with the stealth Shakespeare adaptations for the sequel. I think they should have done that again for Mufasa, though I’m not sure which one they would have used. Henry V?

[@TRNatalie48]

I’m kind of surprised they didn’t try doing a Scar focused remix based on MacBeth with Scar and Zira as Lord and Lady MacBeth, the hyenas as the assassins, Mufasa as a mix of Banquo and King Duncan, Simba as a mix of Fleance and banished prince Malcolm, and Nala as MacDuff

[@lifeisadrag7705]

@@TRNatalie48 Ooh that sounds kinda cool

[@katiehanson2290]

Henry IV would have been good. That one deals with Hal (who becomes Henry V) who starts more juvenile having to face his father’s disappointment in his sons action and then asks for second chance and takes on responsibility of being prince of wales and then king. So you could have had a Mufasa who actually starts similarly to Simba at the beginning of Lion King and then have a confrontation with his father and rises to occasion and maybe defend the pridelands. You could then actually have this fuel Scar’s jealousy/resentment because in Henry IV the king says something about one of Hal’s other brothers heir. So scar could have been expecting to become king cause of his brother’s recklessness but then is angry when he is given a second chance and redeems himself.

[@littlefoot5013]

In some way, it is. Simba was a spoiled brat as a kid, was more apathetic under Hakuna Matata and had to be goaded by his father to go back, and then, once king, he was an overprotective father. Kovu, on the other hand, was brainwashed by Zira and yet still managed to turn out ok. Also, I thought the sequel was more tragic, in a bizarre way. Not only Nuka's death (he originally said "at least you noticed me" to Zira but they cut it.) and Zira, unlike Scar, was more of a tragic death, where I didn't really get any satisfaction from it. In the original, she committed suicide, and said "No never!" and let go where Kiara tired to save her, but they cut most of that out, though you can still see her smiling as she falls to her death. I'd say that Lion King II, Simba's Pride, was perhaps one of the few Disney sequels, and perhaps the only one, that was just as dark as the original (most are more lighthearted.) The only exception I can think of, and that's technically Pixar, was Toy Story 3, which was darker even than Toy Story 1.

[@michaelmitchel3471]

i feel like simba was a normal kid who watched his father die

[@L16htW4rr10r]

I feel like despite never saying it with her mouth, Zira swatting her hands away, and somehow imo clearly letting go willingly and *die with a smile*.

[@donaldcass9678]

Cera was more of a brat

[@nightwish1453]

I will say lion king 2 was direct to video so how it is, is more suprising. Toy Story 3 had that high theatrical release

[@TheBlkKat]

I would argue Return to Neverland is darker themed than the original.

[@maketycry3952]

I always thought The Lion King II was not given enough credit, I’m so relieved you made this video, I think both movies make each other better, I can’t watch the original without watching the sequel.

[@lisoak6504]

I love a sequel

[@robinkholmes7127]

Lion King 2 Simba's Pride is the best Disney straight to DVD/video sequel eve with the "Scar wasn't even his father, he just took him in." line from Nuka. Really threw a big question in the mix of who is Vatani's and Kovu's father, couldn't be Scar and it wasn't Simba. Definitely some fuel for a proper third movie to explore the Outlands more.

[@falconeshield]

I mean that was just thrown in so then Kiara and Kovu weren't cousins. Now that Mufasa is an orphan, can Kovu be his son?

[@delphoxhoopa7289]

I personally don't choose. I love them both for different reasons.

[@Maria_Miciano_5]

Same! But both have great songs! Lion King I choose for plot and Lion King 2 I choose for characters. Though to each their own!

[@guineapig5858]

I loved Simbas pride as a kid, this was when I felt Disney for the first time showed a relationship right while having a strong female lead. My parents tried me with the standard Disney princesses but I found the princes boring most of the time, beauty and the beast excited me yet again more so with the sequel (which I think was a prequel) because beast had a bit more, then with Alladin Jasmine was just there I guess so it had the opposite problem. Simbas pride showed kiara really well to me, she didn't need constantly rescuing and she's capable, kovu was also similar so it felt like they didn't need each other, they wanted each other and appreciated each other's strength. Keep in mind I hadn't watched Mulan yet as my parents thought it was too adult.

[@Pterosauria]

I think the whole "many character arcs = better, one character arc = weaker" is a bit overstated here, it's totally normal and often stronger for a story to be a profile of a single character, in which the other characters are just static tools to support the themes. It makes sense that the lion king - a story about a young person struggling with personal guilt and self actualization - is better served by laser focusing in on that specific character, whereas the second film - about two communities that have biases against each other - necessitates that many of its characters start one way and end with a different viewpoint. Neither approach is less developed, they just have different narrative needs.

[@maxm4804]

I've always thought Lion King 2 is way better than Lion King 1, and I've been dying on this hill for years

[@luyolomenziwa2112]

"Way better" is crazy and a ridiculous stretch.

[@maxm4804]

@luyolomenziwa2112 well that's the fun thing about subjective opinions. I don't like Lion King 1, I don't find it enjoyable to watch. I like Lion King 2. I find it enjoyable to watch.

[@luyolomenziwa2112]

@maxm4804 opinion does not equal fact

[@maxm4804]

@luyolomenziwa2112 😂😂 ok buddy, keep putting words in my mouth. How about this, define better. Did I say it was of higher quality? Did I say it's animation, voice work, or writing was objectively superior? No, I said it was "better". Better, does not inherently mean objective, and as this is a stated opinion you can use your brain to look into the subtext of this message and understand it's a subjective opinion. It is a fact, that in my opinion, LK2 is greater than LK1, and as I never commented on the quality of the film, any objective facts are completely left out of my initial comment.

[@luyolomenziwa2112]

@maxm4804 u really thought u did something right. You're just proving me right. Your opinion does not mean fact. Also if u had just said in my opinion then it would have been fine but nope. Anyway my work is done here 🔥peace.

[@Mizfit100880]

I love how my immediate reaction when getting this in my recs and reading the thumbnail was “duh!”. But I AM biased since, while I loved all three lion king movies growing up, I always preferred the sequels more. LK 1 1/2 will always be my fav for the comedy and fourth wall breaking, but when it came to story I always found myself rewatching LK 2. And having watched your vid now, I can understand why, cuz as an adult I can recognize all the tropes this movie has that I enjoy in other media. So even after all these years, my ranking of the OG three LK continues to be 1 1/2, 2, 1.

[@TigerAvengers]

Great video. I absolutely adore the Lion King 2. However, I wouldn’t personally say it’s better though I agree with a lot of your points, especially when it comes to character development. I just think the first Lion King is basically a perfect movie, and while it doesn’t have as many well developed characters, I think it has exactly what it needs and does it well for the characters that really matter. But I would say they are very close, almost equal, with a very minute difference in quality. So for me the debate basically ends in a tie, but if I’m forced to pick one that’s better, I’d go for the original.

[@finchbird2419]

I know every single song from lion King 2 by heart. They have a sort of quiet yet powerful tone in all of them. Even 'Lullaby' has a very soft tone yet still reaches a full emotional crescendo, and you can feel the raw emotional strength and darkness behind Zira's motivation.

[@Esmeralda2diamon]

I think lion king 2 is one of the few Disney sequels that the movie actually expanded the characters. I mean Simba has a very big role in the movie even though he is not the main character. I love both of the movies. My favorite characters are Simba and Kiara.

[@skyenight-by8yh]

Honestly, I prefer both the OG and the sequel, not only for the continuation of the aftermath of the first film, but also because it’s actually canon to the story (the “Lion Guard show proves that.) 😅

[@olleselin]

Sorry, but the original is superior. "Simba's Pride" basically retconned alot of what happened in the first film.

[@Anti.BluBird]

Like what?

[@skyenight-by8yh]

@@Anti.BluBird Well, if you watched the TLG show, while Kion and the rest of the Guard were at the Tree of Life, the events of TLK 2 were already happening by then.

[@Chris-gw2xg]

@@olleselinWhat did it retconned.? You people can‘t watch and enjoy movies without nitpicking anymore

[@lifeisadrag7705]

@@olleselin How did it retcon what happened in the first film?

[@Vendette-w3g]

I think that the 1994 Lion King is definitely better in a technical sense, but TLK 2 will always be my favorite movie.

[@agingersopinion4820]

I've always adored the second lion king movie, I never thought it was bad, the score and visuals are great and I actually agree about the narrative too. It's not better, they are equal, they are one.

[@Gunni4091]

Ok but why is no one talking about the absolute banger that is "He Lives in You" from the sequel?

[@Jane_Doe-o4r]

Funny story, my dad once played "The Circle of Life," and my TLK2-loving ass thought it was "He Lives in You."

[@olleselin]

I'd recommend Timon and Pumbaa's TV Spin-Off. Because not only does it not touch the original film. It's also a very fun refreshing experience featuring the iconic duo and all their misadventures together on the road.

[@chezperky]

Tv spinoff? The only thing I can think of if tlk 1 1/2

[@Dreamheart101]

I tried to watch it but the stereotyping and prejudice was too strong for me to find any enjoyment, even trying to give it grace for being older.

[@Dreamheart101]

​@@chezperky Disney kind of tried to bury it because it has a TON of prejudice built into it. If you search it on Disney+ though it might pop up, albiet with a deserved warning.

[@Dreamheart101]

​@@chezperky "The Lion King's Timon & Pumba" 1995. 3 seasons.

[@Dreamheart101]

​@@olleselin Yeah. Unfortunately if something drains the enjoyment out for you, not much you can do about that :( Which really sucks bc I had really wanted to be able to enjoy it.

[@TwiKou89]

One thing to note on the soundtrack in LK2 is for one of the background songs. The song that plays when Kiara and Kovu get chased by the Rhinos and also during the battle scene at the end. That song is basically the infamous track that plays in the Pirates of the Caribbean though of course POC altered it to match the pirate vibe. If you don’t know which song I mean it’s the song that plays when Jack and Will fight in the beginning of the first movie. If you didn’t realize this you definitely do now. 🤣 But in the answering of the question which I think is better I definitely feel 2 is better. I never gravitated to the first movie the way I did to the second movie and while I definitely loved the points you made, those honestly explain why I gravitate more to the sequel in terms of which I prefer rewatching more. That and since Kiara is a female lion cub I resonant more with her as a female than I did with Simba.

[@karpushanv4905]

Oh, yes! As a child, it so happened that I watched The Lion King 2 earlier than the first part and didn't even know that the first one existed. And it was and still is one of my most favorite Disney movie. Even after I did watch the first part, for me, the second part was always better.

[@Anonymous-r6f]

Awesome analysis on the narrative! Not even kidding when I say it made me tear up to hear you talk about Simba's, Kiara's, Kovu's and Zira's arcs. Loved listening to this, as I have always held Lion King 2 a little closer to my heart than the first one. Not that I think either one is better, but the sequel definitely hit me somewhere in a way the first movie didn't. Thanks for this!

[@Persewna4]

I wholeheartedly agree with this video! Lion King 2 is one of my favorites! As a kid, it was consistently the one I wanted to watch, certainly more than the original (although of course I do like that one too). In high school, one of my friends and I bonded over our love for the songs from the sequel, especially "We Are One" and "Love Will Find a Way" - which is my favorite romantic song from a Disney film. But I think you hit the nail on the head why this film works and what I most connected to - the story and the characters. Kiara and Kovu are spectacular additions to the Lion King world and I love that they stay consistent with Simba by showing how his trauma from the first film carries on into this one, that he's not instantly cured, but rather that his experiences continue to color his actions and viewpoint. Absolutely an underrated classic!

[@Persewna4]

Also can we talk about the great double meaning of the title: Simba's Pride. Like, it's his pride of lions, and how they start divided and by the end unite as one, but also his personal pride that he has to let go in the end to accept Kiara's words and grow past his mistakes and prejudices.

[@RexoAndCo.]

In My Opinion, Love Them Both Equally. Sure, The Sequel Might Have SLIGHTLY More Problems, But Both Movies Are Great In Their Own Right. It’s Hard To Pick Between The Two, But That’s Just Me.

[@EdiyaGrey]

Yes! I have always thought that Lion King 2 was at least just as good as Lion King, with the exception of the quality of art. I have said that TLK2 was the better movie before. I appreciated how very 3D of a character Simba was. He had a very realistic character arc, and all the characters around him reacted to him in a believable manner. All of the returning characters were done perfectly and the added element of Scar's followers actually made TLK 1 a better movie for me. It gave it support to Scar's reign that feels lacking without that information. Before Pixar came along, it was the one kid's movie that felt right for children without talking down to them about how complex characters can be, and I loved them for that. Love the conversations in the comments that this video is generating!

[@greyshadow1028]

I haven’t seen Lion King 2 in years and I usually can’t remember the score for movies for very long unless it’s something like a main theme, but when you mentioned the music during the war scene it instantly started playing in my head, I didn’t think I remembered it. I’m going to listen the music from that movie now, have a nice day.

[@njivwathomassilavwe2056]

The short answer, no. It's a great movie, Kovu and Kiara are fun and Zira is a good villain but the original is iconic and extremely good and emotional

[@olleselin]

Yeah, i agree it's great. But not that special like the original.

[@SkyLord1846]

This comment perfectly describes my thoughts on Lion King 2.

[@heavenlyarianator6335]

In a lot of ways lion king 2 was more enjoyable as a kid, Kiara’s perspective and the “deception shame” song

[@Chris-gw2xg]

They are both great.

[@Thistleyy]

i disagree. i actually asked the lion king reddit if they preferred the sequel or the original, and i got hundreds of comments most saying, like me, they preferred the sequel.

[@GabeSweetMan]

This is a great analysis. As much maligned as the straight to video sequels were by the 2000s, these early entries were willing to push forward the status quo and is why the Aladdin sequals are also fondly remembered.

[@amyb.6368]

Bambi 2 was also pretty good.

[@MadiRoss91]

I named my second dog, a black Labrador, after Kovu. He had a gently gothic personality 🖤

[@PittsburghSportsFan43]

I always loved them both. I do think the original was better, but I watched Simba's Pride just as much when I was a kid. And the music was great too. I loved "He Lives In You", "Not One Of Us" and "We Are One" just as much as the songs in the original.

[@LordMordrak]

The lion king 2 is a great movie, however I don't think it's better than the original, what I love about the original is how perfectly Scar and Simba mirror each other and while Simba and Zira also mirror each other impressively well, I don't think it's to the same degree as the original. For Scar and Zira themselves as villains I really enjoy both but I think Scar's descent into madness is more compelling, going as far as to ban the name of his brother. One thing the second movie has though that I think could give someone the impression it's better than the original however is how perfectly it builds off the original, with Simba's paranoia about Kovu's relation to Scar for example, without the first movie we wouldn't have nearly as much of an understanding of Simba's fears. I think that's something more sequels should get better at, even if the hero wins at the end of the first movie, there should still be something haunting him that affects the next adventure.

[@nykole1963]

I, personally, like the second one just a touch more also. I could never explain it, but now I can show others your video!

[@AdamIshak01]

IN UUUPPEEEENNNDDIIIIIIII! I like both movies equally for different reasons and grew up on them both on VHS. I would watch the first movie, and then inmedately put in the second movie. Honestly as a child I thought this was one big movie that had to be broken down to two parts cause it was too long for one VHS tape. Even though I’m older now, sometimes my childlike brain kicks and I still think it’s one big movie. Once I learned they’re both kinda based on plays, Lion King on Hamlet and Lion King 2 on Romeo and Juliet, it still hasn’t changed my feelings on nothing. If anything it enhances it.

[@jamesnino680]

I was today years old when I found out there was a Lion King sequel. I’m BEFUDDLED

[@1Wolfnerd]

Personally, I believe both are equally great. A beloved 90s classic that has an excellent sequel. My only real note is that they didn't continue the franchise. And yes, I kno there's the Lion Guard (great show btw) but it would've been nice to have a LK movie showing Kiara and Kovu have cubs of their own. And then for a 4th and final movie, show Kion and Rani with cubs of their own as well.

[@rockchik631]

"One of us" - didn't know the name of that song, but it gives me CHILLS everytime

[@Duckkis]

Thank you for saying what you did about Simba's Pride. I grew up watching that movie and was greatly, positively affected by it as a child. Even playtime outside with my best friend at the time was often colored by the characters of Kiara and Kovu as we took on their roles. Those two still remain two of my top favorite animated characters to this day. The first time I saw the original Lion King I was somewhere in my teens. Of course I learned to love that movie as well; Be Prepared gets me super hyped up while Mufasa's death still hurts, but the sequel has and always will have that extra special place in my heart. It definitely deserves all the praise it gets.

[@yosefzohori8462]

I know that the Lion Guard is a series for children aged 4-7. But I'm interested in how the plot of the series affects the way you look at The Lion King 2.

[@reeceford7640]

I’m not exactly sure why, but the story in the first movie feels more masculine and harsh, with starker contrast and a simpler narrative, while the sequel felt more feminine in its softness mixed with tragedy. I prefer the sequel, but I totally understand how the larger scale of the first movie could be more appealing. The first movie seems to be about the strength in endurance and honoring tradition, but the sequel showcases the strength in compassion and change. But both work so well as a duo I can’t imagine one without the other.

[@Juuchan17]

Say this louder for the folks in the back! This is something that needs to be realized more often, and I'm glad someone went through it in such a neat yet fair way. Yeah, I agree that overall, Simba's Pride is a much more enjoyable experience and story than its predecessor. I actually prefer it over TLK and the other "sequel", if only because of the character arcs, the characters themselves (especially Kiara & Kovu), and the music. If only all of the DTV (direct-to-video) sequels had the same love & care put into them like TLK2 did... maybe we wouldn't be still talking so badly about many of them today (though not all of them are bad; only a handful of them, I would say, are actually done extremely well in comparison to their original film or a previous sequel... like Simba's Pride or Cinderella 3: A Twist in Time).

[@Nahemii]

What always stuck with me in TLK 2 was when Kiara interrupts the fight and says "there is no >they

[@icyfrell]

I think in the English version I grew up with was "they ARE us" but still same

[@goku324ah]

Bro the Lion king trilogy was my childhood, as a 2000s baby they are stamped some of the best movies disney has ever created, having this video come across my timeline and actually watching it had me smiling ear to ear. Great video bro 🤝🏾🫶🏾

[@pandarue]

Wholeheartedly agree!💜 Makes me happy to see someone break it down like this. I love The Lion King and watched it a lot as a kid, but once I saw Liong King 2, I was OBSESSED. To this day, its my favorite, soundtrack and all. Im gonna go listen right meow ❤

[@lolcatz88]

This movie came out 5 days before I turned 18 and I absolutely LOVED it! I mean I was obsessed with it. I saw it at the theatre the first time around and I remember bawling my eyes out when Mufasa died. I bought the soundtrack, (listened to it in the car) the movie, collected movie characters from cereal boxes, character mugs from fast food places, hell I even collected almost an entire set of collecter cards complete with folder that I had to special order from the US. Pretty sure I still have that folder and all the cards somewhere in my house… I knew all the lines to the movie off by heart too. Peak Disney right there

[@AuthoressDilophosaur]

I really enjoy this sequel, and honestly, kinda more than the original, and I think your review gives both movies fair and accurate analyses. However, I really wish we could go back to how society responded to the old-school Disney movies as far as lessons in morality go, like with the death of Bambi's mother. Specifically referencing Zira's original death, I think being free to teach kids via animation that some people will never stop hating them and will gladly destroy themselves and their families for nothing more than pride is incredibly important, not to mention painfully relevant in this day and age. Scar's story had many of the same beats, but compared to Zira's, it was much more low-key, and I appreciated the sequel's different and more blatant take on the same issue. And though the lesson that some second chances have time limits is also valuable, Disney needs more films that also don't soften things for the sake of pleasing moral guardians. If it was like the cut scene in the original Lion King of Scar coming onto Nala in a scene so sexually charged it could power an entire porn studio for a day, though, I'd be much more sympathetic. Personally, though TLK II's ending wasn't bad by any means, I invoke death of the author here and consider the cut scene of Zira's death to be the true way things played out. It's much more poignant and true-to-life to me, which are aspects our world sorely needs. Even so, TLK II is a great example of how to correctly make a direct-to-DVD sequel, and I wish we'd gotten more like it.

[@AshuriAikawa]

I've always thought 2 was better than 1, and that hasn't changed as I've gotten older, only expanded upon as to why I think it. The themes are far more compelling in 2 than in 1 because 1 never questions Mufasa, Simba, or Pride Rock. But 2 does, primarily through questioning Simba and the right to power. In other words, the movie is directly questioning what Simba did after the first film ended and what he does in the second one. We're no longer just buying into the narrative that Simba's the "good guy," but rather how his actions, banishing the lions that sided with Scar out of the Pridelands, caused hatred and otherisation to occur (to "other" is to treat people or groups as lesser, possibly as inhuman-something the film critiques by using animals to do so). He caused the material conditions necessary for the outsiders to revolt against him. This is where I disagree with you. I don't think Simba was right in doing this because even in the movie, they say this single action forced the banished to live a life without the necessary resources to live, particularly food and water. What Simba does makes sense, but only if you think about it from his perspective and for maintaining power. Otherwise, he's simply wrong: he's someone using the power they were raised into as justification to keep hold of it. I think your reading isn't questioning Simba's perspective or that of the continued existence of Pride Rock enough and that, thematically, the film disagrees with your tacit endorsement of Simba's tactics. So, if I were to give you criticism for this video, it'd be to question the perspective of the primary leading character more and not just take it at face value. It lets down your ability to assess what the story is telling you since you're making the same mistakes Simba made. Other than that, this was a good video, and I enjoyed watching it. I hope you read and respond to this, but I admit I don't expect you will because I wrote a lot. But who knows, maybe you'll surprise me. Either way, take care.

[@kerrygligorovic9758]

After Mufasa: The Lion King I wonder if the Disney film makers are planning to make the version of The Lion King 2: Simba's Pride in the future because I would like to see Kovu make an appearence at last in the live action.

[@rosesapling72]

I wish they would leave him alone, like let them be 2D!!!

[@hibiscuspetals02]

Why on earth would anyone want that? It's just like watching a worse version of the exact same movie

[@micmen1496]

I haven't seen Mufasa, but (spoilers) I've heard the framing device is that Mufasa's story is being told to Kiara, Timon, & Pumbaa. Not only does Kiara exist, it sets up the whole babysitting plot line that led to her meeting Kovu in TLK2. I wouldn't be surprised if this was a low-key setup for a live action remake. Bcuz why not at this point? 🙄

[@AaronJamesMediaProductions]

I’ve said for years that lion king 2 is better than the 1st, I’m surprised it’s never had a theatrical release (even decades later)

[@curtiszyr]

It’s not better , just because someone made a KZbin video about it doesn’t make it better. First one blows it out the water.

[@No-longer1]

@@curtiszyr As opposed to you, random youtube commenter going "nuh-uh?"

[@sofiajohansson1438]

While I do love the original TLK (I have fond memories of watching it with my family a lot as a child), I do love TLK2 maybe even more. It's probably my favorite Disney sequel and I watched it a lot as a child, much more than the original. I had a big poster of Simba's Pride for many years after it came out. The story, the message, the characters and the arc are so well done, and the animation and the soundtrack is great! Pretty much all the songs are deep and enriches the story, and it gives me just as much chills as the original. "Love Will Find A Way" always makes me cry, it's so beautiful.

[@lunestrex]

This will put a clear winner here, I find myself returning to watch Lion King II: Simba's Pride a few times a year because it's so enjoyable, aside from the times I watched The Lion King as a kid, I never have found myself yearning to watch it again the same way I do it's sequel!

[@TheFlash-vb9bj]

I love both equally, I thought Lion King 2 should of been in theatres instead of straight to DVD. It lived up to it's predecessor and was a great sequel. It was a great sequel cause it showed how Simba daughter Kira healed the rift between the outlands and pride landers. I do like how Mufasa ended in Kion being born in the end of the movie.

[@Xscape128]

I've watched both flims millions of times. The Lion King 2 was highly underrated looking back but not nearly as emotionally compelling as the first film

[@danielabarros2813]

I kind like the scene of her death the way they brought it in the end. The point of the movie is that she is not a "villain", they are all one even if they're different from each other. showing her reaching out (if i remember corrected) but being too late because of her own hatred is perfect. She could've ended the cycle of violence like her kids and have a new and better life but she wouldn't accepted well so she dies because of that and not because she choose death.

[@Cakebraincat]

I'm just happy to find a video that discusses this cause I've always felt this way. LK 2 was always my favorite of the series by far.

[@helleskye]

I related so much to Kiara growing up and the film is absolute gold. I’ve never noticed the character development before but you are so right, it makes the movie so good. You watch the characters grow and change and feel how their upbringings have shaped them, but they can overcome past trauma, learn from others, and live peacefully

[@Velvet_kangaroo]

The second one has always been my favorite! I still have my dvd from 2004 even if it’s scratched to hell because my autistic sister would watch the “roasty toasty princess” scene over and over. I collect tlk memorabilia and I own some really cool merch from the second movie. Kiara is a sweet baby girl who can do no wrong and sees the good in others. Never truly reddy to give up on zira. Thank you for doing it justice and reminding others that it’s nothing like the other early Disney sequels

[@PhilipEos]

Honestly I do see the point you're making and I agree that from a character standpoint, Simba's Pride is the better movie, but I just get significantly more enjoyment out of the original bc of the fantastic soundtrack and visuals, plus I feel like because the story is simpler, the way the story is wrapped up feels more satisfying. But I love both of the movies a lot and I think you're making a really good point

[@mellissafox4747]

I was obsessed with TLK2 growing up. I still love it so much

[@smelly1060]

I'll tell you what is, He Lives In You >>>>>>> circle of life

[@RubyTrashWolf]

This debate has rested in my mind for years honestly. I've always thought the sequel was better. Not even better, way better. The original isn't bad per say, but there are some issues with it's tone shifts that I felt the sequel fixed, alongside the things you mentioned about the sequel's improved characters, story and songs. I also don't think the visual "downgrade" is very visible at all, I find TLK2 to be very pretty and I don't see the animation downgrade that I can see in other direct-to-video sequels from the time. I GUESS the backgrounds themselves can be a little less detailed, but otherwise I didn't really notice it. As great as Scar was, Zira felt so much more interesting for me personally due to how brutal her character comes across. Scar had moments where he could be charming and fun, but Zira is all violence, and I personally find it far more menacing. She's definitely a standout in the movie. I also love the romance between Kovu and Kiara, very sweet. Romeo and Juliet plotlines almost always get to me, and this one is no different. Basically everything that the original movie did feels better executed in the sequel, and the new things are also so captivating. So yes, I've been waiting for a video essay that sees the truth for years, lol.

[@TheFreakygirl27]

When I was a kid I fell in love with Simba's Pride so much more than with the original. I used to request it every weekend from the video rental store from my parents. I loved the songs so much and still know them by heart. ❤ One of us is the best Lion King song for me ❤. Literally since I was 5 years old 😁 I agree with you wholeheartedly ^^

[@LoryplayKD]

TLK 2 is literally my favorite movie ever, it's so beautiful on so many levels and well put together. I relate to many of the characters and see their perspectives as well as the main ones. It's a masterpiece and I adore it. What I'd like to note is the dubbing for both movies, the sequel at least on Croatian is simply perfect. The voices fit even better than the English ones and I'll die on that hill proudly. Also, Nuka deserved better :c In The Lion Guard, at the end Vitani gets to be a leader of a group that helps the animals of pride lands, a role given down to her from Simba's son Kion who finds his place in another pride. These movies and shows are such comfort for me and they are amazing. I love seeing more people talk about them!

[@Callidus7SSM]

The Lion King 2 is still my favorite Disney movie. Story has always been king for me, and the sequel is just better and more fleshed out in that department. Honestly, it’s saying a lot that they’re so close because the original is so amazing, and I wish more people could understand that a sequel being better doesn’t mean anything bad about the original, if anything, it’s saying something good. Because it means there was enough quality in the original to reach even greater heights.

[@laylaessack4844]

Really enjoyed this video! I’m so glad I’m not the only one whose thought that the sequel rivals (if not surpasses) the original. They both have there place but I do think the sequel deserves this kind of recognition 🤩

[@ellyelly7235]

THANK YOU FOR PUTTING IT INTO WORDS

[@jcolleen9365]

As an AVID Lion King kid growing up (I ruined three VHS of this movie, re-watching them with insane vigor) I absolutely loved the sequel, and only in the last few years did I realize I loved the sequel far, far more. And this is the first timer I've said it publicly lol cuz the die-hards can be scary lol) But, yes, I agree on all points. The soundtracks hits harder for me, ESPECIALLY He Lives In You c:

[@MssIAMNOBODYSPECIAL]

There was a big reason my sister chose Kiara as a name for our first cat when we were young. We both knew the sequel by heart at some point. I still love it.

[@Neko-Duck]

THANK YOU!! I feel like this sequel has barely been talked about for how on-par it is with the original

[@featherguardian6023]

I will say that Simba’s Pride is both my Favorite Disney Sequel and Lion King Movie of all time but if Disney Remakes it it’s gonna be Personal

[@LavenderLydia]

One of my favorite all time movies

[@Flower_Mom]

This and Stitch Has a Glitch are the only direct-to-DVD Disney sequels I like just as much as the original movies.

[@marisokami5259]

also note that when zira dies there's a slight awkwardness in the shots changing, i think it reveals that the scene of her saying "never" was originally in there but was cut quite late

[@analothor]

I think you're absolutely right However scars spouse and extended family are poor foils in places of a villain as menacing as Scar

[@RisaPlays]

I've always loved the sequel more and I'm glad there's some film critique that validates my preference.

[@Angela-ur5yf]

I'd have to agree I allways enjoyed watching second movie more, even if I do aknowledge that Scar is far more iconic villan, and so are the songs of the original, but the story of second one allways spoke more to me as all

[@notacatjustahuman]

I want to see you cover Bambi and Bambi 2 because I SWEAR that sequel is better than the original I love it so much

[@a-s-greig]

They're very different films. Especially considering when they were made, how much they each cost, and what they were trying to do.

[@notacatjustahuman]

@ Which is why it’d be a very interesting video to make

[@dmeechieb.9972]

Is the sequel better? No. Does it have better songs? Yes. Do I love them both? Also yes.

[@greninja-qm2tz]

"A wise king once told me: We are one. I didn't understand him before. Now I do." "But... they-" "Them? Us. Look at them, they ARE us. What differences to you see?" Easily one of the best depictions of racism and why it's completely senseless I've seen in an animated film.

[@Zapporah85]

I named my dog (in my profile pic) Vitani because I loved her character. I know it's a small part, but I thought she was so cool. Now with a few years of hindsight, I think I liked how she stood up to her mom ❤

[@lunarkittycat]

I think the """remake"" showed the flaws in the OG's story and so yeah I aboslutely agree that the sequel has better narrative, themes, etc. The first is heavily carried by gorgeous visuals/music but also a sort of spiritual atmosphere that only happened because everything hit JUST right. The sequel had better building blocks even with a smaller budget

[@BohAiCov]

In italy, the scene wasn't cutted, it os still in the movie fully animated and dubbed

[@stevensampson5823]

I personally prefer the original Lion King.

[@mxavenger2362]

Personally I love both, when I was a kid I watched both, think the first one is better and my only problem with the second one is I felt they could have done adult sin a better

[@ChiSportsNut18]

No The Lion King 2 is certainly NOT better but it's a respectable sequel.