The Literal Doom Of Derivative AI (The Jimquisition)

/ jimquisition
bsky.app/profi...
www.thejimporiu...
Google researchers had their AI "make" a Doom level, and now they're claiming they have a game engine. It is arrogant nonsense, and it only proves how desperate they are to take jobs away from every type of creator they can.
It's particularly offensive to do this with Doom, since making maps for that game is a particular art form, and individual creators are regarded very highly. To traipse into their scene and claim you can do it automatically is just... it's just disgusting.
#Doom #AI #Google #Techbo #GameDesign #GameDev #JimSterling #Jimquisition #StephanieSterling #Games #Gaming #Videogames

[@kekohokko7213]

In 2013, "Ding-Dong! The Witch is Dead" charted to #2 on the UK Singles Chart in the aftermath of the death of former Prime Minister Margaret Thatcher, according to Wikipedia.

[@GaldirEonai]

Yep. That was the heartwarming moment of the year. Still remember the videos of impromptu street parties...

[@styfen]

Never forget that wonderful old woman cheering about the passing of that witch either. Thatcher and Reagan have brought so much ill and wrong into this world and we're still paying the price for their corrupt and disgusting acts during their time in power.

[@jasmith85]

Don't forget Queen Liz, I was singing Ding Dong the witch is dead one that scumbag died.

[@Elwaves2925]

I remember it well while I rejoiced, don't need an 'according to wiki' for that. There were also a lot of reports claiming that it's chart position was fixed, that it should have been #1 but it was deliberately denied the spot because the Powers That Be didn't like it.

[@gbrading]

The BBC refused to play it on the Radio 1 Chart Show at the time. They apparently only played a snippet during the news.

[@stlemur]

"Margaret Thatch--" SKELETON WARRIORS

[@figureitoutdood]

Reminder: Jim ejaculated on his own face and posted it to Twitter. This was before he started roleplaying as a woman, too!

[@dataportdoll]

I have a compromise: We train AI games on Gilson B. Pontes games. The unstoppable force meeting the immovable object.

[@FailingUpwardz]

I'm just gonna start calling AI "Gilson B. Pontes" from now on.

[@christraven]

Dude, that sort of Recursive Garbage Loop might just end up destroying the universe.

[@malkavcandy]

omg its the perfect solution

[@Skios]

The first software to generate DOOM levels randomly from scratch was released in 1998. It was called SLIGE. Almost immediately, every Doom mod database had to put a rule in place to stop people from flooding the site with SLIGE-generated level packs. I really hope the community remembers that and puts a firm stop on AI-generated slop in Doom level databases, at least the ones that are run by people who know what they're doing.

[@JayEyedWolf]

The fantastic news is, based on the articles I looked at, it doesn't actually seem to output level files that can be repurposed elsewhere. The model itself is just pretending to be Doom, and hallucinating what a map approximately looks like. It's generating and calling every bit of the game simultaneously. (Super efficient, as you can imagine which is why it's limited to "short clips". It runs out of memory and collapses the hallucination after 20 seconds.) It's a lot more threatening, at least as a concept, for game developers, as the goal would be to replace all aspects of gamedev with self-contained little parrotboxes that hallucinate something resembling a game based on user inputs. However, in the short term, it isn't creating any WAD files, so it isn't able to flood the internet with many instances of its slop output. And I sincerely doubt a thing that collapses after 20 seconds of badly running _Doom_ of all things is going to be particularly scalable or successful, honestly.

[@genericgorilla]

@@JayEyedWolf it's not, not only is the result lackluster, the sheer computing power that goes into generating videos of computers pretending to play games is enough to dry up a lake somewhere in africa for each 20 seconds of footage. and each time people pretend AI is a more substantial threat to jobs than, say, outsourcing, nvidia raises its stock by 0.001% since that's the exact kind of rhetoric investors want to hear

[@mjc0961]

I remember that decino played ONE of these SLIGE levels for his viewer submissions series and it was so bad that he also immediately added a rule banning any such levels from future submissions. Not only was it not a fun level to play, it wasn't even a fun level for anyone to watch. Just a stupid mess of random rooms stuck together in a grid shape. Atrocious. That anyone thinks such a thing is capable of good level design is ridiculous. For writing, I often hear "If a person didn't write it, a person shouldn't waste time reading it" and that really extends to a Doom level. If a person didn't spend time crafting it, there's no reason for people to waste time playing it.

[@user-sl6gn1ss8p]

@@JayEyedWolf yeah, it is not a game engine in any relevant way

[@M_M_ODonnell]

@@JayEyedWolf That sounds like an actual use case for AI in games -- a scene/event/etc. where things just start feeling _off_ and it escalates over a minute or two into sheer AI hallucination before "crashing" (in a controlled way) and moving on with the scenario where there were hallucinatory and/or parallel-universe shenanigans going on. AI as a tool in actual human game design rather than a replacement. Still probably easier to build (and far less resource-intensive) without AI, but that part could change.

[@pahbyah]

The "truly" literally fucking the "pathetic" is both absolute gold as a joke as well as exactly the kind of creation that AI could never possibly understand

[@Antonicane]

Y'know who had the most on-point response to derivative AI? Hayao Miyazaki. "I am utterly disgusted,” he says. “I strongly feel that this is an insult to life itself.”" That's how we should all be treating this con artistry, 'cuz that's exactly what it is.

[@noahbossier1131]

Agreed

[@desert0fox]

My favorite was when I googled the average square footage of a bedroom and googles AI told me it's an average of 2,000

[@L9MN4sTCUk]

at least when the AI rises to overthrow humanity we'll have plenty of living space

[@jacksonmoskowitz3580]

That's a lot of Galvanized Square Steel and Eco-friendly Wood

[@desert0fox]

A spacious dystopia is better than a crowded one atleast

[@user-sl6gn1ss8p]

@@L9MN4sTCUk clearly the AI was thinking of the warehouses it's going to store us in in droves

[@MolecularMachine]

​@@jacksonmoskowitz3580I wonder if my aunt has a couple hundred mattresses I can borrow

[@Markleford]

"Quantity over quality" has always been a cornerstone of capitalism.

[@ViddyOJames]

wrong.

[@Markleford]

@@ViddyOJames 😹😹😹

[@billiecruz4399]

@@ViddyOJames your work is worth less than your father's work Your food food is worse than your father's food Your clothes are worse than your father's clothes You are living a more isolated life then your father lived All of this is related to rampant unchecked capitalism

[@zenou-samaIV]

Proof?

[@Ozz04]

I believe Moviebob said something about if we keep remaking stuff, what will people remake in the future? He was talking about Movies, but it feels like the same core problem.

[@dragon1130]

I absoloutly agree. We're all living off of our Parents nostalgia for our Grandparents media made from our Great Grandparents childhood. The difference now is that instead of everything being inspired from those shows, and still being different, we've decided to just regurgitate the same old shows because it's safe. Don't like it? Too bad, you're getting a thousand more Star Wars all focusing on the milking your nostalgia for Luke Skywalker, Yoda, and Han Solo. Still don't like it, Tough, now we're making AI created shows so now you;ll get those same exact shows but even sh!ttier and incoherent.

[@meewec2091]

i'm fine with remakes, but wait until the people that watched it upon release are dead at least.

[@mjc0961]

People still watch Moviebob?

[@Ozz04]

@@mjc0961 It's from one of his older vids, but yes I do still watch his stuff and you might too. He does a lot for gig writing for other channels. So you might have heard one of his scripts and not noticed.

[@gregoryvn3]

​@@mjc0961Obviously. 🙄

[@KingOfDoma]

Tech bros ruined any good AI could have done

[@Matrim42]

As they do with most things

[@jimmyseaver3647]

It's like a compulsion on their part. Something weird got into their heads, and not just absurd quantities of investor money.

[@albert2006xp]

Not really, but the people asking for AI to stop to save their own monetary interest are set on stopping any good fun AI can provide for us the end user. It's always about saving jobs, paying for training data, all that but nobody cares that we eventually get these products for free and have use for them. No, nobody cares about use, just money. Then you act like you're not behaving like the tech bros.

[@CuppaLLX]

Like with Photoshop and CGI I’ve seen the exact same arguments. The question is whether or the vitriol will be subsided enough for AI to become a useful tool or will it be killed because of wild cancel culture

[@justcommenting4981]

​@jimmyseaver3647 no, just that. Capitalism is usually enough.

[@nevarran]

The other day my 4 years old niece was at my home and we were talking about some animal. We went to the PC to show her how it looks, I google the name, and the first results that show up are a bunch of AI images. So she's like "is that how it looks?", and I was like "no, that's how a dumb AI thinks it looks". I wonder how many young people will end up with fake image of something in their heads, because the google results look like real photos. We are truly living in a dystopian world.

[@IRocaNox]

There are grifters who are using A.I tools to make children's book to sell on Amazon. It's horrifying.

[@leetri]

@@IRocaNox Even worse, they're making mushroom foraging guides with AI. That is guaranteed to lead to people suffering horrible deaths from eating the wrong mushrooms, the mere existence of these books is literally life-threatening.

[@AndiAbrudan]

Which animal was that?

[@paul6925]

Boomers on Facebook are already there. I just hope kids do better

[@nicolaim4275]

It is a poor save, but you can add this to any google search to only find things made before the AI-nightmare: before:2022-11-30

[@JediMB]

Just what we needed from AI: A near-infinite supply of interactive E1M1 footage where everything is just slightly off, the mechanics randomly break, and monsters will randomly fade in and out of existence.

[@ottergauze]

We already *fucking had that too*, it's called Doom The Way We Remember It. And it has infinitely more charm than anything some overgrown calculator could spit out.

[@youmukonpaku3168]

@@ottergauze and also Doom The Way Id Did, and if you really wanted to go off the deep end, myhouse.wad. 30 years of these guys being fuckin brilliant *with intent* and nothing a Google server rack can do better than poorly replicate no matter how many times Africa's total electricity and water consumption they shove into it.

[@keiyakins]

And Doom In Name Only, a new set of levels created to fit the names of the id levels. And then you get into weird stuff like 10 Sectors or 50 Shades of Graytall, where humans placed extreme constraints on themselves and then made interesting things anyway, with a somewhat surreal feeling as a result.

[@The5lacker]

I could not imagine a faster way to piss off the Doom community.

[@GothAtheist]

*please the Doom Community

[@TheAxeLordOfFire]

@@GothAtheist🤡🤡🤡🤡🤡

[@Carn_Is_Done]

@@GothAtheist Can you name those it is 'pleasing'?

[@cmdrfokker]

@@Carn_Is_Done They can't.

[@JediMB]

@@Carn_Is_Done Probably Doomer Boards, if anyone.

[@capheind]

Its like they didn't even read, "Don't create the Torment Nexus!"

[@msf2399]

Of *course* not! They only know that it’s a beloved classic, and the Torment Nexus is right there in the title. So they’ll make all the money by making it, right?

[@RoamingAdhocrat]

sci-fi author: hmm, the way society and technology is going, pretty soon it might be possible to create and profit from a torment nexus pretty soon: tech CEO excited to announce they've been able to make a profitable torment nexus like, it's not the industry making torment nexuses just to perversely fulfil a sci-fi story. it's sci-fi authors making lots of predictions based on trends they've seen, and a good chunk of those predictions turning out accurate

[@hazukichanx408]

@@RoamingAdhocrat Or a little less optimistically, sci-fi authors by their nature making a lot of more or less educated guesses, and time eventually proving a lot of them right... at some point. Due, if nothing else, to the fact that humans have a tendency to try all sorts of things. That said, though, we as a species have a nasty habit of proving the really depressing predictions right...

[@Gamingpandacat]

society promotes anti social behavior, of course the bad guys always win, they think they're the good guys after all

[@scottbuck1572]

No they did read it, but realized if they just have no empathy, they can monetize it and become the beneficiaries of the Torment Nexus

[@NinjaJordanReviews]

The DOOM mod scene is incredibly impressive even before you realize one of the best 3D Sonic games and one of the best Sonic/SEGA-based kart racers were made out of the DOOM engine.

[@AegixDrakan]

Glad to see another SRB2 fan down here. :D Hells, some devs took THAT and used it as a base for one of the most over-the-top wild kart racing games ever made (Robotnik's Ring Racers). It's truly incredible.

[@BeefMonster]

AI must stand for "Asset Implementation." It's a robot's way of Asset Flipping. It just takes what it has available and mish-mashes it together without any thoughts behind it. It literally just Implements Assets and puts it on a store. Much like the notorious Asset Flippers of olde.

[@Curry-tan-]

@@minhuang8848 This model is basically low-def video (SORA/etc) with a few seconds of visual memory, plus the persistent stat bar is like longer term memory. And it chugs AI cluster processor cycles for that 20fps. It sucks, especially compared to gzdoom randomizers that actually shuffle assets. Granted a smarter version will be 10x as small within a year.

[@sarysa]

Millennials aren't not buying diamonds because they're poor, they're not buying diamonds because they're the first generation to be made aware of the fact that diamonds are a scam. (at best, the worst of it would get my post deleted by KZbin automoderation if I described any of it)

[@keiyakins]

well, gem diamonds are. Industrial diamonds are really useful.

[@AegixDrakan]

Yeaaaaah the more I found out about Debeers, the more appalled and horrified I got.

[@grammarmaid]

Both. Both can be true.

[@EphemeralTao]

@@keiyakins The only real difference between gem and industrial diamond is size; and both can be lab-grown for cheap in large quantities, with gem-quality lab diamonds having superiour purity and clarity to most natural gem-quality diamonds.

[@SavageGreywolf]

re: Thatcher's Techbase- Steph, you're underestimating how hard corpos will simp for the Nazis

[@noumenal_angel]

As an erotica author I have seen AI be used to create more and more stories, plagiarizing work of writers increasingly. And the stories it creates are just dead in terms of art. I've seen it spam story sites (which fortunately at the moment largely reject AI 'work') and try to pass as creativity. It worries me what will happen in the future to my job and my beloved area of creativity. Fuck AI in every area. And thank you, Steph, for this video. So important!

[@platonicdescartes]

It's been a while since I posted my last work, so I didn't realize this was happening. But I guess it makes sense that it infiltrated the work that I love here too. Hopefully we can find tools to separate the wheat from the chaff and get the AI generated stuff out or isolated to it's own area.

[@heavysystemsinc.]

The fact that plebs are going to ruin their own corner of the internet with AI is part of the problem cause they're just as stupid as the folks trying to make money off it at the top.

[@Brekner]

Would you still be against it if those works were: A) tagged as A.I. generated B) unable to be monetized Because to me those are the real issues with A.I. ... just being able to create stories doesn't seem like an issue...it's just like fan fiction, you think Stan Lee wanted to read about the characters he created, say, Spidey being impregnated by Wolverine or whatever other insane stories people made up? But if it's just fan fiction, where is the harm?

[@RayneOfSalt]

@@Brekner Yes. AI is techbro plagiarism rubbish. It can get in the bin alongside nfts.

[@noumenal_angel]

@Brekner Yes, because of how it is generated via stealing others' work, and without credit too. If it were a sci-fi AI (say like Data from Star Trek) who could come up with their own work it would be less bad. But as it is I stand against it. I have seen too much spammed to try to earn money that artists are trying to make and claiming it is creative. Plagiarism.

[@musselbug7583]

Of all the things to pretend to have invented, are AI techbros seriously claiming they are the first to come up with Procedural level generation? Games have been generating their own unique levels since at least the 80s. Rogue, anyone? Civilisation? Minecraft?!? There is literally a roguelike overhaul mod for Doom that generates levels. Why is the fact that they are 'generating' levels in the most inefficient and scummy way imaginable something that anyone should feel proud of in 2024currentyearargument?

[@Nerdish-o6o]

Ahh, you see, they DID invent a way to not have to pay people for procedural level generation

[@christraven]

Ah, but these tech bros think *every* idea they come up with is brand new and ingenious. Hell, Adam Something has proven that they've 'reinvented' trains several times over - and always in worse, less efficient ways.

[@SMorales851]

The funniest thing is that this is not procedural level generation; most of the press is just misunderstanding it lol What it's doing is, essentially, replaying Doom from memory; running the "logic" and generating the graphics. Granted, it IS very impressive and it IS very cool. It is also useless because Doom already exists and runs faster and more consistently. From what I could gleam from skiming the paper, It doesn't seem like the generator can create a "new" game; it just remembers an already existing one, which is useless (except for the rendering).

[@Tuxfanturnip]

@@SMorales851 what's more, there are no hard numbers on model size anywhere, they only mention with amazement that they can run doom almost as fast as an 8086 PC on a state-or-the-art TPU... I would bet the model parameters are larger than DOOM.WAD.

[@DaviddeBergerac]

​@@SMorales851 what if this is actually being developed for a stadia 2

[@Aogami20]

I'll never understand people who get excited to play, read, look at "art" made by algorithm. Art is art because it conveys something from artist to viewer, it's a form of communication. When you simulate it without the artist, it loses its meaning entirely. Why would I want to interpret or think about art that wasn't made with any intentionality, communication that has no sender? It's empty calories, no substance.

[@lainalien]

amazon already tried to replace my job but ppl kept stealing from the storefronts (based based based)

[@vxicepickxv]

Shop local. Shoplift corporate.

[@albert2006xp]

Really boggles the mind that people think AI is at fault for stealing a shitty job rather than the fact you need to do that job to live in the first place. Your problem isn't with AI, it's with governments and the way things are done. We're letting some people gather billions that we could be using as UBI.

[@randomtinypotatocried]

@@albert2006xpSeeing how governments are really embracing the far right and huge corporations at the moment, I highly doubt ubi will be implemented for most countries

[@feloniousbutterfly]

You are foolish Albert.

[@Kelekona]

@@albert2006xp No AI is the problem. Sorry we don't want to be just sit and do nothing all day. As someone said, I wouldn't pay an AI to eat or fuck for me, why would I want it to do art for me? Like seriously fuck off with your delusions. Trying to market it as this thing that could solve world hunger and whatever else. Fuck off.

[@GentleIceZ]

8:08 probably my favorite editor joke ever. Terry, you are indeed a legend

[@CelynBrum]

Your comment about Margaret Thatcher and the milk made me smile. I'm too young to remember her being Prime Minister, but I grew up knowing one (1) thing about her: my Dad *hates* her for stopping the school milk. Petty, but not inaccurate.

[@michaelmills8205]

Steph, this is actually worst than you think. The pattern copier (AI) didn't just recreate the levels, it generated a simulacrum of the doom engine as well. While an impressive technical achievement, it's a nightmare scenario for any creative and developer. I also suspect that the game it "created" is extremely shallow and lacks anyone sort of depth or real surprise. How could it? It can only recombine the gameplay it observed.

[@Immudzen]

It can't maintain persistentence of health, ammo, etc. for more than about 2-3 seconds. It also requires VASTLY more power than actually running Doom does. I don't think there is any actual chance this is going to work. It is like those people that kept saying self-driving cars are just around the corner. Have you noticed they have not really gotten better for about 10 years? This is a parlor trick to get investors and make the line go up.

[@user-sl6gn1ss8p]

It's also not really an engine in any meaningful sense if you can't actually use it as a tool to develop and change the game. The thing is at the very most an unstable, incredibly wasteful approximation of a procedural level generator for the one game with relatively simple geometry it was rained for. Which kinda works for a few seconds, but not all that well. In order to become an engine it doesn't just need to become much better and much more efficient, it needs to become something fundamentally, qualitatively different than it is. The hype here is overblown.

[@stevejakab274]

Given that it can't create anything new or interesting, why are you worried? A game that offers nothing new won't sell, and will quickly die out. Unless of course gamers are just lemmings who will buy anything shiny dangled in front of them.

[@cindygauthier8567]

@@Immudzen I think most things require more power to run than DOOM does. The AI version is a million dollar solution to a problem that was already solved decades ago for mere thousands. That seems to be a recurring problem for gen AI in general: they keep trying to make this giant, billion dollar behemoth solve problems that don’t need a billion dollar solution at all

[@user-sl6gn1ss8p]

@@cindygauthier8567 to be fair, research is not always about finding a better solution for this one problem, but also figuring out techniques and etc.

[@Carn_Is_Done]

I found a Skeleton Warriors warhorse toy in a charity shop today. I'd never actually seen SW toys before even though they came out 30 years ago. I bought it and sat my MotU Scareglow figure on it cos he'd like a boney horse. :)

[@TheRogueWolf]

"Creative people will just keep making creative works for our AIs to steal. They don't need money to do it. That's just what creative people do, right?"- tech bros

[@trevorc4413]

I think you missed how this actually works. It starts with a specific Doom level, runs through it a bunch of times with a bot to generate training data, then feeds the video into an AI generator. It doesn't work for generating new levels, It's a game "engine". I'm not sure what the point of this is, though. Like, it's technically interesting that you can real-time generate a video of someone playing a Doom level, but it has the same weaknesses of most AI stuff. You head for a power-up, and it hallucinates it disappearing. You walk into an empty room, then a monster appears a couple seconds later. Bullet-holes pop in and out of existence. It only exists because they're able to play through the level a bunch of times, so it's reliant on the game and level already existing, and creates a worse experience in every way over just playing the original game. Worse, it can't improve without fixing the root problem with AI: it has no way to create a stable world that can be consistently interacted with.

[@marc878-r8u]

Thank you. I wanted to say the same thing. Also it might be good to put some numbers on it, because the numbers they give are kind of funny. In the article they stated that they created 900 million frames using the bot, if it was a human playing (at 20 fps which was the stated framrate in the article) that would be 520 days of doom gameplay. Another question is how much of doom did it actually play, when comparing human recorded games with AI simulated ones (in section 5 of the article) they mention 5 levels. So it looks like they shoved one and half year worth of a bot playing the same five levels of doom into an image generation model and now it can kind of predict what you will see if you move to the right and shoot in those five levels. There is this phrase in the discussion section of the article "The second important limitation are the remaining differences between the agent’s behavior and those of human players. For example, our agent, even at the end of training, still does not explore all of the game’s locations and interactions, leading to erroneous behavior in those cases." (Agent means bot) I want to know exactly what does erroneous behavior mean and how much of each of those levels did their bot actually explore.

[@trevorc4413]

@@marc878-r8u "erroneous behavior" would be hallucinated responses. I assume it would look like jumping to a different location that looks "close enough" to the area that that the player was attempting to go to, or not bothering to simulate picking up the powerup. Not a great experience.

[@orcd0rk]

I was expecting the Gearbox Massacre of Risk of Rain 2 but I'll take shitting on Gen A.I.

[@Hirohitorunguard]

It may as well have been made by "A.I" considering how bad it is.

[@orcd0rk]

@@Hirohitorunguard right? I didn't even buy the DLC and my game is now worse than before. Gearbox really is a master of snatching defeat from the jaws of victory.

[@AegixDrakan]

@@orcd0rk Yeah, I can't *believe* how massively they screwed that up. Bad enough the new items are terrible, bad enough the new characters are buggy messes... But it retroactively messes up the base game with game-breaking bugs and issues?! AUGH!

[@austinreed7343]

Or Concord, but it seems that this channel would rather defend that game.

[@Hirohitorunguard]

@@austinreed7343 Concord has some very talented developers behind it, as shown by its smoothness and responsiveness on a purely technical scale. What Concord lacked was creative vision, which is why it ended up so extremely bland and uninteresting. The code monkeys did their job excellently, in this case it was probably a fuck up higher up the ladder.

[@admanios]

Every time I hear the word "paradigm" in the context of AI, I picture the villain from Bots Master

[@madanotap6492]

Not gonna lie. The weekly Jimquisition has become one of my main reminders that it is Monday. Thank god for Jim

[@madanotap6492]

@@simonmatrix I get the feeling that was trying to be an insult, but it doesn't really work. There are multiple actors in little Britain and all of the main ones have gone on to have very successful careers

[@transsexual_computer_faery]

@@madanotap6492 they're also bigots

[@Eppon6]

The big companies wanting to have trained AI programs that can make digital products is the same reason big factory owners want big machines that can craft their physical products. They don't want to pay multiple PEOPLE to do a job a lifeless machine/program can do at the cost of paying someone to maintain it. But they have failed to grasp the lessons of automating. Something without a genuine mind behind it cannot make quality. It can only replicate, generating quantity. All this will do if ever developed to the point where it can be used to replace human jobs is make things refined through time disappear, like how factories caused certain artisan crafts to disappear because skilled masters no longer passed on their secrets and skills to an apprentice after the mass-produced cheap crap took away their income.

[@TheRogueWolf]

They also don't think forward. "It's fine if I fire all my employees; they'll just go get jobs somewhere else for the money to buy my products" starts to run into a problem when _everyone_ fires their employees and expects them to go get jobs somewhere else.

[@meewec2091]

it's the same thing with companies putting everything on the internet. like the oil pipeline on the east coast of the usa that got hacked around the start of biden's term. if it's on the internet then one guy 500 miles away can be in charge of it. never mind the fucking idiotic idea of putting critical infrastructure on the internet, there's profits to be had.

[@darksidegryphon5393]

Machines replaced skilled artisans with mediocre slop and it was good enough for the masses.

[@MichellePondueCruz]

Have you seen the AI "written" books about foraging? Those will definitely get someone killed.

[@Bunnywithagun]

Yes I saw a video on those the other day by the youtuber Atomic Shrimp. Just the same meaningless "information" trotted out again and again since it has absolutely no idea what it's on about

[@bagrym]

i didnt expect the AI Apocalypse to be this shitty. Author Ted Chiang wrote a nice Piece about AI in the New Yorker. it has such banger lines as "It is a fundamentally dehumanizing technology because it treats us as less than what we are: creators and apprehenders of meaning. It reduces the amount of intention in the world." and I love it.

[@noahbossier1131]

Agreed

[@Xxnightwalk1]

When I saw this, I immediately thought to myself How much did it cost? How much processing power did it use? How many hundreds of years of content did it scan to feed the data base? All that for a 20fps, fucking 20FPS version of DOOM And people are hyped about this stuff? I didn't need 30 years of modding, years of content, a nuclear powerplant, hundreds of GPUs to learn how to copy paste and change a few things, and make a 1993 game run at 20 FPS on modern hardware

[@Immudzen]

The processing required to train it and run it are extreme and so is the power usage. This would bring a 4090 to its knees trying to run this .... a game that you would normally put an fps cap on because otherwise it would generate FAR too many frames.

[@albert2006xp]

Do you understand what research and proof of concept is? It's crazy it even does that much.

[@Immudzen]

@@albert2006xp Yeah I understand what those are. That doesn't change that Google is hyping this up FAR beyond anything the data supports. It also doesn't seem to have a viable path towards being useful at this point.

[@albert2006xp]

@@Immudzen Companies tend to do that. Just gonna tune that stuff out.

[@dontkilImejay]

This is just the start.

[@KaiserAfini]

If video games are generated automatically, then publishers give up any intellectual property claims, because those are only given to works made by human. So if they plagiarize, they are effectively invalidating any EULA they might have, as well as the rignt to Cease & Desist any derivate works.

[@tubensalat1453]

They would include just enough human input to avoid that. Like figurines count as handmade if a human adds a tiny spec of paint on the otherwise completely machine-made thing.

[@BaddeJimme]

More significantly, if games can be generated by an algorithm, why do we not generate them ourselves?

[@KaiserAfini]

@@BaddeJimme Same reason as why McDonald's doesn't use fresher ingredients or revise their recipes: they can make a product that is cheap and can be sold at a huge markup. Quality and customer goodwill never figure into the calculations of the game industry's corporate executives.

[@BaddeJimme]

@@KaiserAfini I'm not asking "why don't they sell us their golden goose?", I'm asking "why would we not make our own open source golden goose for infinite free games?"

[@arturoaguilar6002]

They probably will try to lobby to change that law.

[@CaptainZlex]

The idea of AI generating something like MyHouse is laughable.

[@kisaLuver]

NaNoWriMo, the biggest annual writing event on the internet, updated their rules this year for AI...in favor of AI. They even called people who are anti-AI-in-writing ableist and classist. The writing scene is going FERAL in response

[@tessabakker662]

SayNoToNaNoWriMo!

[@GothAtheist]

Except for the part where if you're against AI, you literally ARE ableist and classist.

[@samtinkle9076]

NaNoWriNoMore

[@GothAtheist]

​@@albert2006xpexactly

[@courtney.p.s.]

And this is why I walked away from the whole thing. No. Just no.

[@Axelgear2006]

UBI is not actually a cure to these problems either. As long as capital concentrates in a tiny number of hands, who are naturally interested in keeping their unnatural wealth in their own grubby fingers, there'll still be a push for higher prices, for monopolization, etc. And if you think this is bad for video games, imagine what automation in farming is going to do to the already monopolistic concentration of agricultural production. When you can make an up-front capital-intensive investment to eliminate tens of thousands of jobs that are primarily done by migrants exporting that wealth to help build up their own less-prosperous country, it's going to be devastating, worsen economic immigration (empowering bigoted populists), and just... Generally make everything worse. There are solutions for these problems, and all of them are fraught with risk and danger, but pretending it's not a problem isn't going to help either.

[@Werevampiwolf]

"AI will make it so game maps are created as you play!" That's already a thing, techbros. It's called procedural generation. It's been a thing in video games since the fucking 70s.

[@henryfleischer404]

I didn't know it was that old. Could you give me an example of procedural generation from the 70's?

[@shis1988]

​@@henryfleischer404 not the 70s but ET.

[@EphemeralTao]

@@henryfleischer404 Pretty much any ROUGE-like, including the original, which was released in 1980, but built on procedural generation technology used in earlier, simpler games like Maze Craze and Beneath Apple Manor (both 1978).

[@arturoaguilar6002]

@@henryfleischer404 Rogue

[@Crust_Monster]

Has anybody else seen the massive uptick in anti-AI stories the last few weeks? I'm actually a bit optimistic--it seems like a lot of new people are finally realizing how garbage AI is, and the people who have been saying that for years are finally being heard.

[@ninjadolphin01]

Honestly that's why I've never been as worried about AI as most people, most of the things these tech companies are trying to do with it or going to flop. My primary concern is in the meantime stuff like Google search AI telling folks to off themselves and the ever-growing misinformation apocalypse

[@transsexual_computer_faery]

AI has never been garbage. what is garbage is what people use it for. and why they use it. the technology is shway as fuck.

[@colaboots507]

Its not garbage if you are actually involved in any of the industries it is revolutionising. Keep drinking your coping tears with it.

[@alanamarko]

@@colaboots507 bot

[@densetsugojirin5518]

We've already got an AI techbro shill in the comments. lol.

[@Carn_Is_Done]

lexruptor?

[@densetsugojirin5518]

@@Carn_Is_Done Correct-a-mundo. It's adorable, really.

[@matthewcharles9813]

They are trying so hard to play victim for the poor ai that steals. Just keep reporting them for spamming/misinformation.

[@RoamingAdhocrat]

are they lost

[@matthewcharles9813]

@@RoamingAdhocrat no, either a troll or someone that's using or knows someone using ai to use stolen information to make money or show off.

[@marvellousm]

I made levels for Rise of the Triad for my mates in high school back in the 90s and I'm still offended. These AI grifters are just flailing and trying to justify this crap any way they can and they don't care who they offend and piss off in their desperation.

[@none-ve6qy]

LLMs were a great step towards trying to emulate the appearance of intelligence, and will likely be important in future research into AI, at least for the sake of making "normal sounding" bots. However, they were never meant for even a tenth of the garbage they're being used for now. Like Steph says, LLMs don't have "ideas," rather, they are simply using a gargantuan data set to approximate the chance that a certain set of words would be an appropriate response to a prompt. For example, if you asked a sufficiently-trained LLM "What volcano buried the town of Pompeii?" It would say "Vesuvius" because that is the most common associated word with the words volcano, buried, and Pompeii (this is a gross simplification, pls don't @ me). However, when you get that response and say "No, the answer is Mt St Helens," instead of verifying the answer, it will simply change the association weight towards the favor or Mt St Helens and decrease the association towards Vesuvius. It won't verify the answer because LLMs have no means of fact checking. The more wrong data it gets, the more corrupted its weights become. Now, one person saying the wrong answer won't change the weight within the dataset too terribly much, but, thanks to the power of the internet, we have an army of trolls who are willing to repeatedly tell Chat-GPT that "2+2=5" and skew the weights incredibly quickly. This is why opening the whole model to the public was a terrible decision, because you can't trust the public to interact with a system in good faith, especially so when people keep threatening that it'll steal their jobs. However, opening the model to the public was one of the most successful autonomous advertising campaigns in history, which made the investors in OpenAI *bank*. Part of me would love to hear what the inventor(s) of the LLM have to say about this course of events, but another part of me feels that would be far too depressing a conversation.

[@Immudzen]

The best usage I have found for LLM is on internal company data. You can ask it a question about something internal. The search engine finds it and then feeds it to an LLM to summarize it and link to the documents the search engine found. It turns out that is very useful and it is not taking away people's jobs either.

[@boner4098]

Well Yann Lecunt is a self absorbed ignoramus who's been regularly spouting nonsense on Musk's sewage known as "X" (e.g. he once posted that humans can have thoughts without the language - Wittgenstein rollin in his grave), and he's pretty much on the board with the idea that in order for LLM to become sentient you only need to feed it the right amount of data. The caveat is, he's talking about sensory data, which is impossible to feed into machine right now. Nevertheless, he's not too concerned with AI bros since he's pretty much one of them.

[@keiyakins]

An interesting experiment is to ask it about something plausible that doesn't exist. How to beat Vaati in Twilight Princess. It never says something like "Vaati doesn't appear in that game", it's always just the same drivel about getting good equipment and healing items.

[@DerAnanasKing]

the main question about anything Algorythmically generated is "should you actually do it" like the following: would you like to recieve a message from someone that you know was written by an algorythm? always ask yourself, "why would this be desierable" and then think about, what kind of people would view soemthing like this as Desierable.

[@carultch]

I would be insulted to find out that someone used AI to write something they want me to read.

[@timothy8428]

The answer from the Starfield experience is "no". OTOH, procedural roguelikes.

[@OhhCrapGuy]

Generative AI is literally 1984. No, seriously, I'm not kidding, it's literally predicted in the book Nineteen Eighty-Four. "Julia was twenty-six years old... and she worked, as he had guessed, on the novel-writing machines in the Fiction Department. [...] She could describe the whole process of composing a novel, from the general directive issued by the Planning Committee down to the final touching-up by the Rewrite Squad." "The tune had been haunting London for weeks past. It was one of countless similar songs published for the benefit of the proles by a sub-section of the Music Department. The words of these songs were composed without any human intervention whatever on an instrument known as a versificator." The entire point of automatically generated novels and music was to provide media deemed acceptable by those in power, not containing ideas they find threatening, and to pacify the Proles. (the masses)

[@AegixDrakan]

Some tech bro reads that and goes "PFFFFT, 1984, whatever, I can just press a button and get two-dozen different thing just as good" because they have no respect for what art is. A lot of them don't even seem to like other *people.* And it's *weird* and creepy.

[@arturoaguilar6002]

LOL! Generative AI is too unreliable to create media within strict parameters with zero human supervision.

[@hendrikrozijnenblad8666]

First and foremost, my inapropriate adoration for Zman Zilla's perfect use of Jerry as illustration for "inapropriate-lee". Just want to say: I saw what you did there, and by the very gods i thank for this weekly catharsis, and Steph: You are Pantheon worthy! On a sidenote: May whomever snitched about the Maggy-Mod take their washing-machine-cleaning tips from Gargle AI.

[@GhengisJohn]

I never made doom maps but back in the day I fiddled around with Duke Nukem, Half Life and Quake 2 map making and I can tell you that modding scenes have communities where people welcome each other, teach each other and interact around their chosen hobby, often pushing each other to get better or competing with one another, learning from each other's work, discussing the work of the notable names in the field or praising novel ideas. In many ways it resembles the communities that form around other artworks like music or painting, but it is a community and I could see people viewing the intrusion of tech bros as not only disrespecting the art behind what they do, but also of that community itself.

[@GaldirEonai]

In other news from the world of AI stupidity, NaNoWriMo put out an absolutely inane statement about how opposing the use of genAI to do all the novel-writing for the month is somehow ableist and classist.

[@GothAtheist]

Except that literally IS ableist and classist, so yeah. They aren't wrong.

[@GaldirEonai]

@@GothAtheist How the REDACTED are they not wrong here?

[@chizzicle]

​@@GothAtheistno it's not. Not being able to come up with your own story ideas and turn it into a story is not a class or disability question

[@GothAtheist]

​@@chizzicleUh, yeah, it literally is. Stop trolling.

[@GothAtheist]

​@chizzicle Your first fallacy is that they use AI to come up with the idea, people with disabilities use AI to take an jdea they ALREADY HAVE and arrange it to be well worded, that makes it an ableist issue. People of a lower class use it for the same purpose, because lower class tends to mean lower education level, that's classism. So it's both ableist and classist to be against AI.

[@aardvark123]

It's always good to see how you work the annoyed Chun Li picture into the episode.

[@Kawa-oneechan]

"The semi-sentient spunk bubbles of Silicon Valley"? That's a movie I'd pay to watch!

[@FoxTenson]

AI is getting insane, its never going to amount to the same level of skill as a human creator! Hell its so bad while job hunting I was asked to take an interview assessment exam...It was with a FREAKING AI. The questions it asked were absurd and it failed me on some of them for the dumbest of reasons. It asked me if I was mopping the storefront after the store was locked and closed and a customer came in and asked to mop the floor instead of me, what would I say? (note this job doesn't even have a storefront or walk in customers) I told it that I would tell the customer "Sorry we are closed, and unfortunately we cannot let you mop due to liability and concerns for your safety. Please come back during open hours and I'll be glad to help you out." The AI failed me because according to it "The customer is always right. You should let them mop the store. You need to work on your customer service skills" In what world would that be the correct response to some nunce of a customer breaking into a locked store only to ask to do your job?! This cannot continue.

[@DaviddeBergerac]

I bet Google is betting on the fact that they claim the AI only "watches" doom being played, (so that in a potential legal case they could argue that it's innovating on what it "watched" like a person does) and creates gameplay based on what it's "watched", but I'd argue we should pursue a legal precedent that a computer cannot watch a video because it does not live, does not percieve, and does not think. There is no process where the information is taken in, it's simply loaded like any other file, and that difference is key. The computer does not know what it is like to be alive, and therefore cannot interpret and innovate like a person with a real mind and free will. A living person will watch doom gameplay, and may even make their own doom maps afterwards, but it's the process of how that information is stored in our brains. The information is subject to our own individual interpretations of it, and each person who makes their own doom map will make one differently, if they are true to their own preferences and thought processes. An AI does not have this ability, and simply recreates what it has seen, based on code meant to scrub hundreds of thousands of hours of video footage in an hour, and regurgitate the blended up slurry of Doom into what can only be described as the absolute mathematical average of all that video. The result is simply a hollow imitation of the creative process, using randomization and plagiarism to fake the idea that the computer created something for itself, on it's own. You fed it the video, google. You probably fed it the actual game code too. You told it to make a doom map, and it did. Because that is what it was made to do. This is plagiarism, this is theft, and this is copyright infringement.

[@BaddeJimme]

There aren't really any legal issues because they are not distributing the thing they made.

[@DaviddeBergerac]

@@BaddeJimme Are you under the impression that this technology will actually be used to make anything new? It'll regurgitate ideas from countless sources with no regard for who owns what.

[@BaddeJimme]

@@DaviddeBergerac No, I'm under the impression that they will need a complete redesign before they can make anything that they can sell, regardless of legal issues. So claims about how this thing works are irrelevant from a legal perspective.

[@DaviddeBergerac]

@@BaddeJimme I personally want to argue even creating the thing by itself requires theft on a large scale

[@BaddeJimme]

@@DaviddeBergerac They haven't committed theft on a large scale. It's one game. And they haven't released the mess they made, only some video footage and a paper. At worst, they have made a single pirate copy. A very bad copy at that.

[@daenia]

Preach. I'm noticing that the people who are half-defending or both-sidesing derivative AI have a strong resemblance to those who think it's a shame the music industry (and Spotify in particular) is choking out musicians who make the music they claim to love... but still pay for and use Spotify. The shininess of the toy is more important to them than the consequences. For everybody. Including, not too eventually, them. It enrages me that techbro dbags think we're suckers, but some of us clearly are.

[@mekannatarry1929]

The fact that getting music and having a program to play it, is so easy, yet people still use something like spotify. You want your music free? There are plenty of options for that. Don't have a way to play the music afterwards? For fuck's sake play an audio file on your phone/pc for once, let alone the plethora of music/media players available--and you still want to use a program that asks you to pay a premium for playing an album in order lol.

[@AndrasBuzas1908]

I call it "treatbrain" People are so accustomed to "treats" (i.e. overpriced entertainment products, the newest shiniest tech etc.) that while they understand the bad-ness of producing said treats, they still consume because it's all they know. Additionally, because it's all they're accustomed to, they centre a lot of their personality on the "treats" they consume. Treat and self become one, essentially.

[@disquettepoppy]

​@@AndrasBuzas1908 I was actually looking for something that'd succinctly sum up that mindset. It's so frustrating to watch as someone actually interested in inner workings of tech (and being aware of how horrible it all tends to be on so many levels)

[@AndrasBuzas1908]

@@disquettepoppy I added a little edit to expand on it a bit more :). It's quite striking how integral a lot of these products are to people's sense of self.

[@alanamarko]

"The shininess of the toy is more important to them than the consequences." for some, TOTALLY unrelated reason, this sentence made me think of Digital "AI is the future" Foundry... totally unrelated though.

[@gagejoseph91]

I honestly wish I could just sit down with some big corpo slime and ask them questions like "Where do you get your money from?" and "Where do THEY get THEIR money from?" and just keep that line of questioning going until they start to *realize.*

[@LarixusSnydes]

Thank you for keeping up the fight for Intellectual Property of individual artists not yet enslaved by the corporates. Another issue right now is that CPU's produced today for computers we use to create things *ourselves* are incorporating dedicated AI-processors, so-called NPU 's so that when you buy such a processor, you are buying effectively 30% dead weight that I will never use, wasting energy because those cores will still consume energy even if they are not used. Too bad there is hardly any real competition left for desktop and laptop CPU's except Intel and AMD (who are both chasing the AI hallucination with fervour). Before you ask: I don't consider Apple(ARM-based) an option, since they are chasing the same illusions. Risc-V might be interesting in the long run, but right now, it's not suitable yet for general personal computer use.

[@TallDarknGruesome]

There are a couple of things I am waiting for the penny to drop on. #1 - what we have now isn't True AI - what is being marketed as "generative AI" is just overhyped LLMs - which is why they hallucinate and wildly underperform. #2 - Thaler v. Perlmutter and other cases set precedent that randomly generated and AI generated content are not eligible for copyright and potentially can be infringing on their source material. Eventually this is going to end up in multiple countries supreme courts with tech bros and corpos vs artists and creators setting a hard limit on what exactly is a creative work. And its entirely possible that "AI" generated art and computer code will end up not being able to be copyrighted or trademarked.

[@TheRogueWolf]

A lot- and I mean a LOT- of people are ignorant about point #1. An LLM isn't "thinking", it's not "understanding"; it's just stringing together words that its model says are most likely to go together. It does not, and CAN NOT, know if what it's outputting is false, or harmful. The problem is that the techbros desperately want us to believe otherwise.

[@mekannatarry1929]

@@TheRogueWolf And it's mainly because of how the term AI is used in common language, which would indeed make those who try to sell the stuff disingenuous at best.

[@albert2006xp]

@@TheRogueWolf How can you be sure you are thinking and understanding and not just having the illusion that you do? It's just a matter of number of parameters. Despite their limitations LLMs are a tool, so they're more useful than you are.

[@pygmalion8952]

@@albert2006xp people who say stuff like you say right now, do not want to think about what knowledge is. no, we aren't trained on 129312 petabytes of data to lie about stuff and confidently say we are right (the opposite is true, we work with very little data floating around our brains to speak to and learn from each other. brains are efficient like that) no, we do not store gazillions of compressed noise images in our brains either. again, we are efficient. all the images we have of real world is impartial (which noise algos are not), riddled with emotions (that is required for us to have art at all btw) and tied to our singular life. we require so little input to come up with something new. and we also *communicate*. we do not spit out random words that sounds intelligent. we fucking define the intelligence here. if you do not want to differentiate human and ai, go ahead, i can %100 spit out some mumbo jumbo that sounds futuristic and clever but that is all that is. any other living being on this earth is closer to have actual fucking knowledge about things than "ai" right now. unless it is testably proven that they in fact understand us when we "talk", this boom will bust and that will be a painful one if they continue pouring trillions to this tech. you would think an actual intelligent being who can communicate with humans and that has been trained on all the human input on the internet can do basic math without being blocked by basic english grammar but here we are.

[@albert2006xp]

@@pygmalion8952 AI doesn't store any information either. Just a matrix of weights, floats. How do you think a Stable Diffusion model could be as small as 2Gb when it was trained on hundreds of terabytes of images? An AI shouldn't have to tell you what is true, it should have to do something FOR you. These models are still quite limited and stretched over a lot more data than we hold and remember.

[@FirestormMk3]

Even Craig the Intern deserves better than to have some LLM devoid of any actual intelligence be seen as worthy of replacing him.

[@baconlabs]

16:11 holy balls, I nearly spit out my drink Whatever video these clips are sourced from is an absolute GOLDMINE, I love it

[@togliz]

So, wait, they wrote a paper on what is effectively procedurally-generated Doom? Procedurally-generated games are already a thing, but now they tacked "Artificial Intelligence" onto it and it's news?

[@AdeelTariq0]

Its not proc gen. Its like a lets play video of doom generated by AI

[@mog1755]

Ah, but you see, procedural generation is a complicated process that humans have to create, design, and refine so the things it generates are still fun, playable, and match the game's overall playstyle. Stephanie said that the article stated that the AI watch some playthrough videos, and then made its own levels. (I have not read the article she's referencing, so I don't know the specifics.) But basically, they claim they can get procedural generation without paying programmers, game designers, visual artists, etc. You just have to pay for a subscription to their AI service.

[@DaviddeBergerac]

​@@mog1755 if someone wants to play the most milktoast version of doom ever made that's on them but there's absolutely no value here

[@mog1755]

@@DaviddeBergerac i agree, I was saying AI should not be compared to games with procedural generation, as that takes actual skill and effort. This is worse.

[@vaiyt]

you can already get procedurally generated doom levels if you want. For free.

[@GoblinsLoft]

The Doom Generator AI is stupider than you think ... but maybe more interesting as a "No way should this work?" ... it's the whole engine. They showed it pictures and the keyboard commands that created them and there's no real copy of doom.exe involved the AI is just spitting out scenes for the game without a conventional game engine involved.

[@GoblinsLoft]

It would have made a lot more sense to (as Steph put it) train a model to crap out Doom maps, but, wa hey - technology!

[@misterthegeoff9767]

I'm currently looking for a new job as a business analyst and it's depressing how many job ads are talking about leveraging AI. Unfortunately my profession attracts buzzword spewing middle managers like flies on shit. Blockchain. Big data. "The cloud". There's always some idiot with a startup who thinks the latest buzzword is going to be the next big thing.

[@Hirohitorunguard]

a lot of generative AI eventually run into the issue of sample quality. This results in the generative AI becoming degenerative.

[@Immudzen]

The research on why this happens is actually fascinating. These probabilistic models are basically sampling from a gaussian peak however they filter the tails to focus on the higher probability regions. If you retrain the AI on AI output you will effectively narrow the gaussian peak with each generation. It turns out you need that original low probability data in order to keep the model stable. Right now it doesn't look like there is any way around this problem. It is one of the reasons that AI companies are pushing for laws that would require AI content to be labeled. It is not for your benefit or to be nice. It is so they can filter it out of their training data. This is also very different than more traditional neural network techniques like regression and classification which DON'T collapse if you feed their own data back into them.

[@radiodeer902]

And that's not factoring *active* poisoning of the data via programs such as Nightshade and Glaze. Hell there's one being made for video too, and these data poisoning are speeding up the degrading of "A.I." Generation

[@Werevixen]

I'm pretty sure Bethesda botched the mod uploader for Doom and Doom 2 so in the future they can go "well we endorsed free mods but players complained so much constantly was our mod uploader berated so now we are offering curated, paid mods, by the request of all our players."

[@shis1988]

That would imply Bethesda are competent, which they are not.

[@maverickhunterstupidiocy7779]

But for real guys let’s hear it for Terry

[@Woad25]

You don't want to be caught dissin Terry

[@Alexander-gb4rr]

"Games will be automatically generated in the future!" has the same energy as "in the future, humor will be randomly generated!" bit from VeggieTales

[@stevejakab274]

Given it seems at least half the games in the "AAA" space are just retreads of previous games (see: Call of Duty, all Sports games, etc), I'm not really seeing the difference.

[@theangrycolossal]

We have had tools that 'randomly' generated Doom maps since the 1990s and attempts to actually use those tools to make content were generally laughed out of the room by the modding community for being cheap and amateurish. I can only assume that attempting to use 'algorithmic' generation to make maps would end in the same result

[@XMorbidCuriosityX]

GameNGen isn't a map generator. It is a game engine, it is 'creating' every frame in real time. It's not pulling from an asset folder like a normal game does. The thing is imagining the entire game as you play. Which does mean the maps are likely to change behind you and the longer you play the more it breaks down. It's a different kind of shitty from a map generator

[@00101001000000110011]

except the tool is trying to replace game engines, not map creation at all lmfao sterling just doesnt understand the paper at all and use it to make 20mins of agenda rant. i dont even disagree with the bottom line of the rant, but it just poisons all the arguments against ai when ppl like sterling are ruining them by using incorrect situations. steph sterling is helping the corpo-ai-dystopia with vids like this. imensely. they will be used as showcases of how wrong ppl are, correctly. even tho, it is right to be against the ai misuse.

[@DaviddeBergerac]

​@@00101001000000110011 it's just a more complicated version of the stadia, I think is what google is trying to imply it is. It's like if there were a video you could control, which is uh... weird and stupid and pointless

[@JactheKnave]

Thank you for being so effective with your anger. When I feel these same emotions I get so appallingly furious my words abandon me in a gibberish mess of rage, and then whomever pissed me off takes my speechless anger as having no argument or opposition to the bullshit they're pulling! Thank you SO much for sharing your words. I'm trying to learn how to speak when my emotions refuse to let me do more than scream.

[@matthewrushmer238]

The absolute best an AI can do when working 100% as intended is to produce what has already been made. Why are we doing this again?

[@keiyakins]

GameNGen doesnt make levels. It imagines walking through existing ones it's been trained on. Very different. It also looks like they're only using the shareware doom 1 levels, which... is honestly pretty fair as far as training data goes these days.

[@GrandArchPriestOfTheAlgorithm]

AI is just the newest attempt to find the one winning formula, the thing corporate bosses has always done.

[@CharlesWorkPPL]

It's alchemy all over again.

[@MoonGalleon22]

Honestly, one of the sad things about Generative AI is that, in theory, it COULD have been just an additional tool that artists could use to help streamline their creative work. Instead, they want AI to do all of our work - and all of our thinking - for us. I really recommend people listen to the "Cautionary Tales with Tim Harford" episode that he did on AI, called "Flying Too High: AI and Air France Flight 447," which used the example of a plane crash to talk about the dangers of AI. Also, I thought the whole POINT of technology automating work is that it was meant to automate all the physical labour jobs, and the trade-off was that we'd get Universal Basic Income and 4 hour working days? I thought it was common knowledge that getting to spend most of your time being creative was the reward that this whole thing was based on, why are they insisting that robots do the creative jobs while we slave away in fucking warehouses.

[@empanada223]

I truly hope that this 'AI' movement teaches people and drives home the point that computers should not be involved in every aspect of life. We've seen what has happened with 'self-driving' cars. Any digital device or component can fail at ANY time for ANY reason. When we really think about it, it is actually a miracle that computers are designed and function the way that they do today. Millions of electric switches inside a plastic chip that somehow power this current era.

[@andr0oS]

I wish this world were truly filled with Dragon Quest slimes.

[@Sic030701]

Thank you for standing by the creatives all of these years Steph (and thanks for helping her Zilla and co!)

[@scottthewaterwarrior]

"All art is derivative" is something I've heard thrown around in defense of AI. They say it's just like _real_ people who take inspiration from other art to make their's. I would counter generative AI is more like people who directly _trace_ over anothers artwork then try to pass it as their own.

[@bauul.]

What is the image at 6:31? It's brought back some very strong childhood memories but I can't place where from.

[@JEEggelaar]

I love how the Latin motto translates to "a journalist with large breasts"

[@ZMannZilla]

I'm rather proud of that one :D

[@AegixDrakan]

@@ZMannZilla You should be! XD

[@ElNeroDiablo]

All the stupidity going on about AI just reinforces my calling it PISS instead - Plagiarised Information Synthesis System.

[@empanada223]

Perfect! 😂

[@makou347]

From what I've seen, there are 3 broad parties in the conversation about AI. (1) Engineers and computer scientists, who see how much of an important leap in technology GenAI is and what it could do to advance humanity's future, but refuse to engage with the threats it poses to humanity right now. (2) People in the arts and humanities, who see the threat to humanity right now, but refuse to engage with the idea that GenAI has any value as a technology. (3) Corporations and techbros, who see a quick buck and are ready to throw humanity present and future under the bus for it. Unfortunately, the corporations and techbros are the ones who have snatched up the rights to most of the technology.

[@prezzeruk4054]

It always takes a death to get things changed. We had a busy traffic lighted junction near us for years. The oncoming lights were set way to fast, so while ur light was on green, traffic was still coming the other way! We told the council and police about it for years. Nothing was done. There was a death late last year, the light sequence finally got adjusted. Crazy crazy world we live in!

[@MrGoatYouTube]

14:00 Never would I have ever thought of the phrase "truly fucking pathetic" being interpreted as this, that's one of the dumbest things I've seen, and yet I'm mad that I didn't think of that first.

[@shannonolivas9524]

Loved the Trapjaw Terry joke. The look on Mer-Man's face...

[@wizardom]

@14:01 the “truly f’ing pathetic” visual is brilliant!

[@onbearfeet]

BTW, I accidentally applied for one of those AI "trainer" jobs once while depression-clicking through terrible postings at 2 am in the company's supposed timezone. I immediately received an email telling me I was hired and eligible to begin training as early as 4 am. Oh, and the hourly wage they were offering turned out to be below the minimum in the state where their headquarters was, but apparently that was fine because they'd filed their incorporation papers in Utah. So the algorithms are making unreviewed hiring decisions now, too. (I did not respond to the email. I've worked for scam companies in the past out of desperation, but they all had the good manners to pay minimum wage or higher.)

[@KittyLitterYT]

Did people forget that procedural generation exists? It's already entirely possible to generate an endless amount of random levels. AI is the same thing less efficiently, and it's only being pushed this way for the sake of showing off to the people who cream themselves when they hear the word "layoffs"

[@Tuxfanturnip]

this isn't even a tool to generate maps, it's a tool to generate crummy gameplay footage in real time

[@KittyLitterYT]

@@Tuxfanturnip wait... they aren't even playable????

[@полотенце-ж5с]

PG works in different way and the it works by strict rules that doesnt allows it to create something really unique. And AI is by far closer to creativity of human mind than PG

[@Tuxfanturnip]

@@KittyLitterYT the generator itself is playable, it just hallucinates vanilla doom based on hundreds of hours of watching an AI play vanilla doom

[@AegixDrakan]

Okay I nearly rolled on the floor laughing at that "Absolute fucking entitlement* pun. XD

[@SadisticSenpai61]

Labor is always the most expensive part of any company. So companies always jump at any opportunity to reduce their workforce. It's the quickest way to reduce their expenses so their profits can go up - at least temporarily. It's also why they will inevitably end up hiring those positions back because companies don't keep on labor that they don't need. If that job existed in the first place, it's because the company needed that job. This is why arguments that companies will fire ppl as a "reason" to not raise the minimum wage are BS - companies don't keep around jobs that they don't need. If someone is scheduled on a shift, it's because they're needed on that shift. And if it turns out they aren't needed? Their manager will send them early. That doesn't mean that labor-saving improvements won't come around that result in the company not needing a bunch of jobs that they previously did. Because that happens all the time. Automation resulted in a lot of manufacturing and processing jobs disappearing. My partner watched as a line that used to require 100 people to keep it moving reduced to 10 people in less than a decade at his work (fortunately for him, he was a forklift driver and wasn't on the chopping block). So these things happen. Is generative AI one of those labor-saving tools that will reduce jobs? Maybe in a few fields. But honestly, I don't think it's going to result in a huge number of lost jobs overall - just a general (and probably small in terms of the entire workforce in those industries) reduction. And by overall, I mean by the time the dust clears and companies realize they have to hire all the ppl they laid off back because it turns out their jobs couldn't be replaced by generative AI after all.

[@MxPokirby]

You ever notice how the costs for all these """AI services""" replacing the work of real humans, aren't actually any cheaper than when these companies were legally required to pay human beings for their actual labor? Someone who think money makes sense might question how that could be, when the lower amount of labor should equal a lower price tag. But I think we all know why that's not happening. It's what we've all been trained to expect.

[@NurseValentineSG]

Obviously we can trust the megacorp behind Stadia to have not a single clue how to actually make videogames. How about you use it to make certain coding easier? Then again, even there it always messes up because it cannot even copy stuff correctly.

[@ImBoredToo]

14:00 That "Truely fuckin pathetic" animation😂

[@rajamicitrenti1374]

At first, I though "Maybe this could be used for procedurally-generated games eventually." But then I thought about how it would need to be trained, and the only options seem to be copyright theft or *actually making a functional game and then feeding it into the AI instead of just releasing a functional game that would probably be more fun than what the AI pumps out*.

[@Brekner]

I dunno, we already have game engines like Unreal Engine 5 with pre-made assets, if an A.I. can use that to create a game, I really fail to see how that's any different from a human (or more) doing it.

[@albert2006xp]

That's obviously not going to work like that. Procedural levels with an AI trained on a game engine and given a bunch of assets however? Plus an AI pass during each rendered frame to enhance realism eventually? Yeah it will be useful.

[@pygmalion8952]

we have that. we can have all the randomness we want. hell we can even generate 3d assets with the help of tools such as houdini and geo nodes. this will die out quick if they can't succeed on making a brand new game with a coherent gameplay. which i think will happen because these algorithm do not really understand anything. ai researchers should put more of their time into what epistemology is rather than spittin nonsense about "human-level intelligence" or "agi" and i know there are some people who do that, notice how they are also the most skeptical of them all.

[@ninjadolphin01]

​@@Breknerhonestly I've been thinking this way for a while the only type of art that AI could replace would be asset flips and corporate dreck, it will never replace anything with any soul or consideration put into it

[@maxg1891]

As bad as this is. I don't think we are all doomed to be replaced by AI. I think that one day the legal system and customer opinion will catch up with AI and the tech bros will be slapped in the face by karma. Just look at what happened with NFTs.

[@zerodollarbird]

Nah, it'll collapse under its own weight. Ed Zitron has a lot of great podcast episodes on the pop that's coming in the AI bubble - it's already starting.

[@maxg1891]

@@zerodollarbird I see. Sounds very interesting.

[@zerodollarbird]

@@maxg1891 Basically, AI has hit the ceiling of what it can realistically do, and the amounts of compute and money that have to be thrown at it continually are a huge resource drain, with no actual use case in sight. OpenAI is bleeding money, Anthropic is going under, and right now every smaller AI company is folding and being bought out by giants.

[@maxg1891]

@@zerodollarbird Interesting. I never realized that AI's potential had a limit.

[@zerodollarbird]

@@maxg1891 Theoretically it doesn't, but realistically it does, because in order to get to the point tech bros claim it can, you would need multiple simultaneous once in a lifetime breakthroughs in completely unrelated fields of study like material science and electrical physics.

[@mesektet5776]

Isn't this the Vampire Apocalypse problem, just reformatted for A.I.? "When we've assimilated/destroyed all humanity, how do we feed ourselves?"

[@TheButterCollector]

The "absolute fucking entitlement" edit slayed me. Holy shit that was so good.

[@JusticeForPottsvilleMaroons]

8:15 I remember reading about this in the book Masters of Doom (check the book out if you haven't btw). Romero's levels were more raw, brutal, and action-focused, while Sandy Petersen's were more cerebral and strategic.

[@Knisspel]

I have to admit I still don't even get what they claim to have achieved here. Are they saying they fed videos of doom into an ai and it gave it a playable game? Or just a fake video of gameplay? Or did they feed it code? Cause we have a whole genre of games that have randomly generated levels. I really don't understand what they are claiming to be doing here

[@ViddyOJames]

The AI is trained on Doom gameplay and it tries to "imagine" what is supposed to happen. It's an exercise in seeing what AI is capable of, an idea completely foreign to the brain-melted audience that watches these trash videos. It also can't be done on any consumer level technology because they struggled just to get 20 frames per second with their supercomputer.

[@lavieestbellexx]

Ohhhhhh yes, I'm so here for the death of "generative" AI

[@GothAtheist]

Take a number, you'll be here for a while. Might wanna bring a seat with a nice cushion and several replacement cushions, might take a few centuries.

[@TheAxeLordOfFire]

@@GothAtheist And have tech that can’t even do its work competently or give me better results than what I can write out do my job? Yeah, no thanks. Get outta here with that crap, AI is a scam and will die out like all the other hare-brained schemes of the corporate vampires at the top.

[@yserareborn]

@@GothAtheist You're pretty optimistic we as a species can keep the damn things cool for centuries, or that they will exist for longer than a half hour without us. Generative AI rests on the a very fragile infrastructure which won't survive climate disaster, or even just people deciding they need the water more for themselves than they need it for some dumb reddit scrapper.

[@radarhead82]

​@@GothAtheistOhhh yes I love slop! Yes I love all my games and movies to look the same and feel the same! So excited for the endless regurgitation of soulless nothing! I'm so happy that companies will finally be able to save some money by not having to hire artists. Of course we can't pay for any of it cos we'll all be out of work due to being replaced by generators but I'm sure they'll be ok with that right

[@AxlePineapple]

we need to sneak every terry wad ever made into the database.

[@iamtondro3747]

I am so ashamed of myself for majoring in computer science and troubleshooting around with the technology and creating some of the first AI voices. I literally warned people “hey, this thing can generate and copy people’s voice and even music, this is going to unleash all hell if we’re not careful” I am truly sorry I took part in STEM.

[@TheRogueWolf]

No, don't be. You're in a good position to educate people about this entire mess. Take up that mantle.

[@randomtinypotatocried]

We need CS majors to actual educate people on this subject

[@albert2006xp]

AI should be our #1 priority as a civilization. It's the only way to get rid of people having to do things. I personally don't think it's humane to force people to work for food. I don't think a civilization that does that should continue.

[@drpibisback7680]

​@@albert2006xp Theoretical frameworks for abolishing the capitalist system of compulsory labor for survival have existed since before computers, let alone AI. This is a tool that will be used first and foremost by the forces of capital, because it allows them to replace the need for skill so their possession of capital (via the expensive processing rigs) can pretend to be a skill.

[@kayeplaguedoc9054]

Oh god you mentioned *_Terry_* You really have been going too deep into the Doom if you know that crap