The Longhose Concept in Recreational Diving

After some request to make a video on the Longhose in recreational diving - here ist is.
Here is the Links to the Videos mentioned in the Clip:
Single Reg Setup:
• ISE Regulator Single C...
Gas Donation 1:
• The Art of Donating Ga...
Gas Donation 2:
• The Art of Donating Ga...
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[@johnnyf4r]

great seeing two professionals explaining their craft. top class video

[@sebastien2487]

I'm a beginning tek lite diver and your videos are an absolute blessing for educate myself properly! I am devouring your channel #yummy THANK YOU SO MUCH

[@DefaysFrancois]

Nice, simple, inspiring video. Thanks !

[@SimonBackman1]

Good video. I use an air2 (combined BCD inflator & Occy) on the rare occasions I dive my jacket style set up, which means the primary reg needs to be donated if situation arises. Ever since I started cave and sidemount diving, and learnt benefits of 2m (7ft) primary set up Ive switched my recreational set up to a long primary. provided excess hose is stowed in a today manner it’s a great functional set up.

[@snotl]

Fantastic video - Thanks a lot for the information.

[@raitro]

Absolutely agree with everything you guys say. I dive a backplate and wing myself and would not want to go back to a "regular" BCD. My diving is 100% recreational. Most of the people who dive are not diving professionals like you are. What would Walter Röhrl say about how we drive our cars (Or better: how our cars drive with us)? I think most of the disagreements in the diving world are caused by this different view on diving/things. If I can make 50 dives a year, I call this a "good" year. Dive safe within your limits and respect the invironment. Yes, it is safer to sit in a tank, but I will still get my icecream with the bicycle. This is a great channel! You love what you do, what more can one ask for!

[@dassdar]

I'm a fairly inexperienced and recreational diver but I am so happy with my BP and wing.. Easy perfect trim, everything is stable and stays put. Crotch strap ftw!

[@drheaddamage]

Huh, learned something about the existence of wing systems. After about 20 rec dives, and always messing about with BCD jackets moving underwater, that seems like a much improved solution. Not to mention much, much simpler and cleaner in its organisation, making for easier troubleshooting. The tips on the longhose configuration is also very welcome. Thanks!

[@garrymorris2827]

I dive recreationally with a backplate and wing - it is lightyears better underwater - the feeling of freedom and not having all of that fabric "hugging" and squeezing you is amazing. :)

[@doctopus4970]

@@garrymorris2827 I did that too, until the possibility to rent this gear wan't there anymore for me. Blackplate and wing diving is the most relaxed and effective diving I've done for years!

[@joenapper3317]

Great video!. There are two more items you could have mentioned. First, and I explain this to my rec students after they've mastered traditional air sharing, is that a truly panicked out of air diver will probably NOT ask you for air. In all likelihood this person is going to come from out of nowhere and take what they know is air...your primary. I teach tell them not to fight for it, but to use their own octo. And secondly, a traditional octo or safe second stage is typically does not have the same ease of breathing that the primary does. This also can exacerbate an already bad situation.Where as on a long hose configuration both regs are designed to be used primaries. . Thanks and keep the vids coming

[@bloodymarvelous4790]

I see people investing hundreds of dollars/euros/pounds in an air integrated inflator, when they could've invested that into a secondary second stage that's on par with their primary. I've even seen a lot of people have an air integrated inflator that's more expensive then their entire stage two regulator set. And they're generally the ones who complain about the idea of a long hose setup because you have to take your regulator out of your mouth to donate to an out-of-gas diver. What do they think they'll need to do with their integrated inflator? The long hose is by far the best single cylinder configuration you can go with. It's more streamlined, more convenient, safer, and it carries over when you're getting into twin cylinders or sidemount diving. The second best configuration is the standard primary and octo, preferably with a longer (at least 100cm) octo hose on a silicone necklace. It's easy to locate, easy to deploy, and it won't dangle.

[@everist22]

Fantastic. Strongest support for a DIR/GUE setup is the scenario of a panicked, desperate out-of-air diver ripping your primary reg from your mouth - and you having your octo/backup reg sitting below your chin ready to use. Hence the long hose on your primary reg - human behavior says that’s the reg your going to have take (or hopefully pass to the panicked diver)

[@cwilliams6884]

that would all still be possible with a shorter hose and octo clipped on shoulderstrap…

[@percy3815]

Solid response to that rather inflammatory video from Alex Pearce... I dive long hose primary and donate, and just to counter some of the arguments about ‘the OOO diver will go for the bright colour’ - my primary 7’ hose is bright yellow. Best of both worlds. Dived with tons of random buddies on liveaboards and on holidays using this setup, and I’ve had to actively use this about 3 times. Every time both of us have come up successfully and happily, and on 2 of those occasions the buddy in question has then gone on to get the same setup

[@Graggs]

Alec's video wasn't really inflammatory (no more than this one really) and you spelled his name wrong! Both videos make valid points and come at it from a different perspective. I personally dive a long hose REC (and Full TEC) and it works for me. There are different views and different training. A long hose in the wrong hands would not be a satisfactory solution!

[@percy3815]

Graham Owens autocorrect unfortunately :). Personally I think it was, and that’s not coming as someone who is a ‘tech monkey’. I’m a recreational diver in general, and I think there’s a strong case to suggest that a long hose + bp/w setup is a safer solution. Assuming an equal level of training I can’t see any way in which a long hose setup is sub optimal. Take any two random people of equal ability, qualify them both to OW level (one with long hose and one with standard octo) and I can’t see any way in which the former of those two options loses out. This is why I think Alec’s video was inflammatory - he is suggesting that this wouldn’t be the case and I can’t see an argument as to why

[@Graggs]

Fair point @@percy3815 and I probably agree with your argument. But, there is a heck of a lot of people who have learned the 'old' way and continue to do so and simply getting everyone to use a long hose wouldn't work. The points made above are all valid, plates and wings are far superior (In my world) to BCD's and I don't think I've met anyone who has tried a plate and wanted to go back to a BCD, yet millions of people must be diving BCDs all the time. I'll go back and watch Alec's video again - he did make a few misinformed comments, the one about wrapping the hose around your neck is quite misleading.

[@mrchriscarleton]

@@percy3815 Alec will always make the case for recreational setup vs technical. That's his thing, and that's fine. What was upsetting about the video is that he made a case against long hoses and it was painfully obvious that he doesn't know how to dive a long hose. And this was his second attempt at this same video. The first time he tried it, it was done so badly that he ended up taking it down on the same day it went up. The comments section naturally devolved into an all-out war between his rec and tech fan bases, with the tech crowd tearing into everything he got wrong and the rec crowd basically insisting that Alec Pierce was right because he's Alec Pierce and so shut up. He should seriously just leave this subject alone and stick to what he knows - his content is usually leaps and bounds better.

[@percy3815]

Chris Carleton I think my point is that he’s not even making an argument for tec vs rec. He’s making an argument for the current way being the only way, and that’s what I find annoying. As divers (whether rec or tec) we should all be pushing to develop our knowledge and skills to make us safer. His attitude to long hose diving is the antithesis of this

[@diveaddict6885]

Great points

[@andrebakkers6619]

I'm always diving with a full face mask (FFM). My second reg is an R2 while diving solo. Wile buddydiving I'll use FFM,R2 on wing ,3' reg long hose between cylinder and bungy, the reg on bungy in frond of my shest. Sorry for my Englich.

[@pucioy]

Thanx for very interesting but really not so fair video :). There are two huge pluses of octopus set : 1. It's in different colour, visible from any side of donator, 2. It's always avaliable, causing no danger of pouring out sec stage from donators mouth. Good habit would be use it for few minutes on each dive then I'm sure it works. It's also easier for begginers to train with, including even hygiene question. Long hose I find actually the only logical way for advanced divers ( right gas for right depth f.ex. or enough space on cave or wreck diving) There are many more things to discuss about it but I now I have to mount croach strap on my Mares Bolt :)

[@dacam63]

I took an intro to cavern course and they taught the same hose configuration. It’s just a smarter and safer way to dive. I remember diving with my buddy and watching his spare yellow reg trolling the bottom of the ocean, getting full of sand and crud. It probably wouldn’t work if he needed it.

[@TheBountwix]

great topic, great video. Regarding the classic bcd recreational setup: there are multiple appoaches regarding the gas donation procedure. As Achim already mentioned, the out of gas buddy is supposed to reach for the yellow backup of the buddy by himself, thats at least how I was tought years ago, when I started scubadiving. But I have also seen the approach, that the donating diver gives his primary, then the share gas with one regulator and when the situation is calm, the out of gas diver switches to the yellow backup. To me, this is all stupid, way to complex for such a situation and my opinion is, that everybody should just use the longhose system. If they don´t, they should at least be able to explain the exact procedure when donating gas or asking for gas in an out of gas situation. The reality is, that often peoble don´t even know the procedure themself.

[@lhotse1716]

Would there be any disadvantage in having the long hose stuffed in a bungee cord on your right side of the wing rather than swung around? That way it won't slide down your shoulder or get in the way of the inflator hose or anything?

[@ip_cxltures_youtube7065]

What wing were you using on the backplate and wing because I’ve been looking for a backup,ate and wing to use while diving and also what regulators are you using on the backplate and wing setup

[@d.j.wind97]

So i want to start with a long hose setup. But currently i own the Scubapro Hydros X adv jacket. Its a jacket style bcd not a wing. Does it even make sense to use a long hose setup with a jacket style bcd?

[@siapatahu3103]

Nice video... i am diving with a " semi Wing " Sq Balance since now more than 10 years - this is much more comfortable and stable than my Diverite. Sure the placement of weights is essentiell to trim it perfect not to roll. On this section i am not 100% with you ... hose config is a theme where i still like to try the long hose system without using D.I.R. - i am diving with a anatomic mouthpiece on my primary 2. stage . how this works out when a diver out of air gets this in his mouth ? please share you experience with me

[@jameshamilton1811]

Great explanation of the differences with both bc's and hose set ups I went this way nearly 20 yrs ago when i got into tech/cave diving i never went back to a conventional setup it just didn't work for me and my wife followed suit as it made her feel as though everything was easier to access.

[@SeattleRingHunter]

12:00 "most other agencies" not sure who you speaking of but PADI is a large recreational dive organization and they teach you to not only test the purge but to take two deep breaths off of all regulators, primary and "octopus". What lazy divers do is another story. As a PADI recreational Master SCUBA diver I take breaths off all regulators (primary, Air2, and pony reg when diving with) prior to each dive so maybe I am not so typical as you try to suggest. I also dive more than twice a year so I am sure there is a lot of warm water holiday divers that are thin on pre dive safety checks. I also understand what you're eluding to that some divers don't put nearly enough priority on there donate "octopus" secondary call it what you wish regulator. Good video demonstrating the two systems.

[@stephens2r338]

You sound like a safe diver and look after yourself. An issue l have with tec divers is do you explain to all the divers on the pre dive briefing your set up and what they're supposed to do in an emergency. Should they take your long hose or the reg around your neck, or the octopus, what is a pony bottle and should it be yellow. Did l mention that I'm our of air....

[@SeattleRingHunter]

Stephen S2R the reality is if a diver is desperately out of air they are most likely going to pull your regulator out of your mouth for some gas. So the question in my mind is am I prepared to secure an alternative for myself and be ready to deal with the potentially panicked diver for a safe assent to the surface before it turns into an out of control situation. Protecting my own safety first then helping the diver in need the best I can.

[@stephens2r338]

@@SeattleRingHunter Hi Jeff, thanks for your reply. l agree with all your points and a long hose set up does make an out of air situation easier and safer for myself to deal with. What l was wanting to put forward is that although diving with a long hose set up is better, we need to explain to all our dive buddy's why and what the differences are regards out of air procedures. This should happen on the pre dive briefing but is normally missed

[@Danodoobie]

Do you clip down or tuck in your long hose on your hip/harness when it goes down from the first stage?

[@garrymorris2827]

When diving a 7ft hose, most divers will either tuck a bit of it in their belt, or if they have a canister light will wrap the hose around the canister a loop or two on the right hip to "shorten" it. If you're diving a 5ft long hose, it simply routes down the right side of your back behind your right arm, across your chest to the base of your neck on the left shoulder, across the back of your neck, and into your mouth from the right side. A quick dip of the head will "release" the hose from your neck for instant use.

[@rohgren]

Is there a standard length for the long hose when used with the primary, or is this personal preference? What is the recommended or most common length of the long hose? Thanks for any replies.

[@juannaval541]

Hi Rohgren, thanks for the question. It depends on your height and body size. Typically we use 6 to 7 foot hoses for the primary, a 22 to 24" for the backup/secondary, 26" for the SPG and an appropriately sized one for your power inflation.

[@kennethjmcarthur2428]

My primary is a couple inches longer and is flexi hose. My primary is my octo and I would use my Air2 on my HydrosPro BCD. I find this combo perfect for travel and more minimalist for recreational diving. Not sure if I would want to try the long hose. To each their own is best.

[@DOHCG]

Hi Achim, Do you recommend a certain color for tanks? for instance,not a black unmarked tank?

[@willsmooth45]

I recommend colored tanks it helps fellow divers identify you some say it makes you look like a noob but I have two bright colored tanks one lime green and one dark purple not many ppl have lime green and purple tanks

[@bill2292]

1. It's a different technique, not a religion. 2. You can get in trouble with either system if you aren't trained or you don't function check your gear on every dive. 3. High drama is the enemy of safety.

[@mariagarciagarcia5391]

They think it is a religion. And they only use black. :):):):)

[@popeafsweden1029]

a newer video from Alec Pierce kzbin.info/www/bejne/kGHXpIuebt6efbM The first video refered to in the video i couldn't found, but there should be a shitstorm in a commentfield somewhere :D

[@Elparquito]

I loved diving the backplate/wing and 10' long hose on both my cold water recreational diving (drysuit) as well as warm water diving. What are you thoughts on using a 30 c/ft pony bottle on every rec dive as your backup? Granted it's not the same as using a crossover manifold with a set of twins, but it does keep your regulator setup the same for all rec or technical dives.

[@garymckinziejr7194]

Use a 40 with lighter first/sec stages and it will be neutral. Oh and nothing wrong with your idea. Backup is a must especially when solo diving.

[@dh5645]

Gary McKinzie, Jr 40 ft.³ pony back up always. It is shocking to me that everyone does not have at least a 20 ft.³ pony back up on dives 60 feet or greater.

[@mrchriscarleton]

"Someone posted a video, I haven't seen it...." Ha ha! I'm not sure I believe that! I think we've *all* seen it. ;) But great response video anyways! Thumbs up!

[@celine8811]

I'm about to buy my first set of regs. I learned the traditional octopus way but after getting my deep cert can see the advantage of having more room to swim together on a gas share and be able to comfortably do a deep stop, swim back to shore or the line. So I'm considering a long hose. A lot of recreational divers seem to go for a 1,50m hose vs 2,10m. I wonder what you think about that for open water. PS: the comparison of the two setups is a bit unfair. You're not just comparing octopus vs long hose but inconsiderate vs safety conscious diver (dangling equipment, not well serviced, no predive checks) 😉

[@thegreatneess]

instead of long hose, i use 90cm hose for primary, which goes underarm and 55cm short hose necklace ( thinking in going shorter) , spg with blotsnap hook to d-ring, wing style bcd, everything is streamline as possible, had seen lots and lots of diver, especially those with rental gear, had their octo come off from attachment, spg hanging and swing freely underwater, also it look ridiculous to have big loop of hose going sideway out, for traditional rubber hose as it can't bend well those hose length is needed, but with today miflex hose which is so flexible do you really need 70cm+ hose for primary ?

[@stiv_mcgivers]

Can you comment on the use of an angled joint for a long hose second stage setup? I am guessing it might interfere with handing off the second stage to an OOA diver.

[@Blubpaule]

I don't see a reason why you would want that but you can ask him yourself on patreon.

[@gee4526]

Achim, hope I haven't mis-spelled your name. I have a question. What are your thoughts on using longhose setups on your safe second as opposed to the standard long hose rig?

[@KimonFrousios]

Considering the argument about providing an air source that is guaranteed to be working, they probably don't think it's any good. Probably worse than standard recreational setup because there is even more loose hose to get entangled or to store improperly or to let flop and drag on the seabed.

[@gee4526]

@@KimonFrousios Thank you Kimon.

[@jeningscasey]

Great Video! I’ve been contemplating moving away from the “Standard” Rec setup, and this was the push I needed. Thank you! I would really appreciate what length and brand of hoses that you prefer to dive with.

[@mrchriscarleton]

Your backup second stage (the one on the necklace) can go on the same hose you use now for your primary with an Octo. It goes the same distance to hang off your neck. Your primary will need a long hose. Technical divers who do penetration (wreck or cave) will dive a 7 foot long hose because it's long enough to swim in single file if you need to get out of a tight space, but for open water rec diving 5 feet is perfect. Brand doesn't matter much. I prefer flex (braided) hoses over the classical rubber hoses but you can research that and ask around on your own. Hope that helps!

[@jeningscasey]

Chris Carleton, thank you. It was.

[@juannaval541]

Hi Casey, thanks for the question. It depends on your height and body size. Typically we use 6 to 7 foot hoses for the primary, a 22 to 24" for the backup/secondary, 26" for the SPG and an appropriately sized one for your power inflation.

[@gemajams]

Do you dive with a pony bottle on a single tank?

[@doctopus4970]

How people and divebases in general can still not understand that this the most sensical and safe way to dive and really makes jacket- and sport-diving equipment obsolete, makes me speechless. And I'm writing this fully aware, that I don't have a single divebase or buddy near me who can rent DIR-gear.

[@Held_der_Feuer]

The Video which sparked the discussion is this:kzbin.info/www/bejne/kGHXpIuebt6efbM

[@dacam63]

I had a dive partner and he didn’t understand my longhouse configuration. And when he was diving his octo would always be dragging on the sea floor. I’m sure it would never work if someone needed it.

[@frankdieber7090]

How do I get in touch with ISE? I have been on your web site and their is no msg link. I am looking for a ISE trainer. I am very interested in technical diving and want to be trained by the right people.

[@CoastalDevelopment]

you can always send me an email: [e-mail] and I can point to to somebody close to you. Best Achim

[@gregbruner1918]

I appreciate the advantages of a long hose set up but I wouldn't make the switch unilaterally. I have a regular dive partner and unless both people are comfortable with and understand the procedures - don't change your set up.

[@garrymorris2827]

That's part of the buddy briefing before the dive though, right? Yes, you don't have a bright yellow second hanging on your rig, but it's pretty easy to find the one in your mouth. I dive a 5ft Rec Long Hose and basically tell my buddy during our briefing that they will be using the one in my mouth if they need it, and if they're desperate for air, just take it out of my mouth and I'll grab my second. It's not unlikely in an "emergency" they will mug you for the one in your mouth without warning anyways. Whether you're diving traditional or long hose, repeated practice in the pool of donating both your regulators to build muscle memory is key. Just because you're diving a traditional setup doesn't mean you can skimp on the training/practice. :)

[@DEVINE.IMAGE.]

It is so much easier buddy breathing with a long hose you both hold the middle of the hose so you both have control of your ends when you dive with someone with a long hose try it then try your short hose

[@LeeMorgan07]

Can you talk about transitioning from a BCD / Octopus recreational setup to the longhose / wing setup? I am sure not all of us here can just dump our old system and start fresh. What can we do to slowly transition parts into a tech style setup? What should we start / buying first? What are the small things that can quickly make a difference.

[@timgosling6189]

I started by swapping my BCD for a single cylinder wing, backplate and harness, but keeping the standard hose and second stage set-up. This will instantly make you a lot more stable in the water. I still use this rig on holiday so that with a mixed group people will be familiar with the layout. The only change I made was to ditch my old octo clip and fix a small boltsnap to the yellow hose about a fist's width from the second stage. This allows you to clip it off securely on your right chest D-ring and still reach it to breath from if you need it. The boltsnap fixing includes an O-ring as a weak link so someone in a hurry can rip it if they are in a panic. This is a fairly common method. There's a short clip of what it looks like here (kzbin.info/www/bejne/l6qThauYg5KJick), at about 5:00. Otherwise if I want to dive a single with my regular buddies I will use the long hose and the necklace short hose from my twins. Swapping hoses just takes a couple of spanners and a bungee necklace is easy to make yourself - but get someone expert to advise and go through the procedures with you.

[@mrchriscarleton]

I don't think the order matters that much, but you may want to do one change at a time and give yourself a few dives to"adapt". Changing out the BCD is a more drastic change. You'll need to learn to don a 5 point harness, it will feel different (usually better) under water, and you may need to take some time getting used to The buoyancy and work out how much weight you need. Switching to a long hose setup is easier. You basically just have to learn some new skills. You can learn them from KZbin or, better yet, have someone you know mentor you. Check out thelonghose.com. That's where I learnt to make the switch.

[@justinbailey4603]

As a recreational diver, what's your thought on using a long hose with a safe second integrated inflator?

[@Blubpaule]

I am not sure that would even work. But the idea is make it as simple as possible.

[@justinbailey4603]

@@Blubpaule I agree 100% wouldn't it be taking away another failure point though?

[@diveinstructordaniel1095]

Justin Bailey no it would take away another reg. Another breathing source! 👌

[@haveUSPwilltravel]

Vod Kanokers an air 2 or the like is a secondary source. So it is not removing an air source. I don't like them because it eliminates the separation between bc and regulator. How does your average diver treat their bc as opposed to their reg? You are taking a configuration that enables neglect and make it worse.

[@mrchriscarleton]

I would think if you're diving a an integrated reg on your inflator that you would *need* a long hose. Otherwise, what happens when your buddy is out of air? You switch to your inflator and your buddy has to breathe out of a 60cm (24") hose? Have fun with that! ;)

[@eugeneschreiner2859]

This is advanced diving that would turn away many people to the sport because it requires more training. I was trained by an ex navy diver in 1990 who advocated short hoses because if you lost the second stage it’s easy to find. If someone panics and grabs your second stage out of your mouth the long hose could creat a problem if that diver tried swimming away with your reg. Your diving with advanced divers who are trained better than the divers I see. I dive alone on the Rhode Island shore for that reason. Bottom line is that The training is just as important than the equipment. Regarding the back plate, my Zeagle stiletto fits me like a glove and I could add a crotch strap but don’t need one.

[@cwilliams6884]

how long is the long hose in this setup?

[@CoastalDevelopment]

210cm / 7ft

[@cwilliams6884]

@@CoastalDevelopment ty

[@mustanggun]

But in reality, do you all really use a single tank that much, even recreational? I do have a single tank, back plate and wing long hose set up... but I don't like to dive single tank anymore. I'm kind of addicted to the redundancy of two reg's. Do you sidemount for recreation?

[@HellrazorDogsnDives]

I switched to Long Hose/BP/w. its like taking the red pill, you'll never go back to rec set-up.

[@askingdiver]

Here is the link: kzbin.info/www/bejne/kGHXpIuebt6efbM My point to this topic is, that Alec forgot to consider the education system. Using "regular" configuration, when learning new stuff, you need to adopt the long hose. If you start as a recreational diver with the long hose, your techniques don't change in later courses. What works for complex dive works for easy dive, but not vice versa.

[@Iceman231181]

Oh wow... Is this an advertising or sales video for backplate & wing system?

[@maxdiver9038]

Here is the video kzbin.info/www/bejne/kGHXpIuebt6efbM

[@stephens2r338]

I've been teaching diving for over 20 years and as a cave diver I use a long hose on all my courses. I teach my students the Padi way however explain why the long hose set up is better. My main worry is when they're diving in the real world. Rec and tec have become closer and the opportunity of them diving together is becoming more common. This should be delt with on the dive briefing, however they are normally poor at best. In an emergency where's the octopus?

[@TauchausflugEu]

No one will ask for an octopus in case of emergency - they grep the reg out of the mouth. And so the concept works perfect

[@fxpmike]

i guess you were talking about Alec Peirce long hose video, personally i agree with him that it isn't mandatory to have a long hose for an open water 18 meters non deco dive, could it be more comfortable? for sure, but for a caribbean boat dive with an isntabuddy i rather check his/her octopus before jumping into the water than trust on his/her capabilities of doning air, as you said in another video "doning is an art"

[@haveUSPwilltravel]

fxpmike I might have had a part in this....😆

[@FromGamingwithLove0456]

not sure anyone ever said it was mandatory- not even in that video... Which was so loaded with BS he took it down after many people (me included) expressed our disappointment. The issue so many people who responded to that video had was that he had absolutely no concept of the application of the long hose- much less the benefits. He was wrapping the excess around his neck... saying "does this make any sense?" Of course it doesn't- and if he misrepresents other things he doesn't understand it makes me wonder whether I should trust his other videos that address concepts / equipment I'm less familiar with. Fortunately in this case I'd used the long hose concept recreationally for a long time because it "worked" for me... so I was able to dismiss his position on the long hose configuration. Others who were uncertain of the concept may have been turned off of it based on his approach... which is unfortunate but to his credit he took it down and posted and apology... so I have to give that to him.

[@fxpmike]

@@FromGamingwithLove0456 he upload another with a proper s drill clip within

[@Jylakir]

I think the problem is that Alec is more a typical warm water diver who dives for a very long time. Some concepts are more familar for him and if we're honest, in warm water there are other conditions that in cold water which also influences his reasoning. He just has another background that most European divers. I also saw this when he is talkin about tanks and stuff like DIN or YOKE or Steel vs ALU. He is just used to other stuff. In the end I think when he was active he was a good trainer with just another focus than us here in the comments.

[@jeffworst9939]

@@Jylakir Alec grew up and lives in Canada. He has LOTS of cold water experience.

[@Alejandro-vg7yt]

Thank you very much for posting out this video. It's always great to hear both sides and approaches to it. For those of you interested, here is the link to a video from some days ago in which they show the other side. kzbin.info/www/bejne/kGHXpIuebt6efbM

[@MrMurray88mph]

I've been an instructor for a year. I've been a diver for 5 years. I've never entagled a hose. Maybe I should do more cave diving.

[@CoastalDevelopment]

well - I probably lack your level of experience, but I did.. I´ll keep working in it - promised. :-D

[@MrMurray88mph]

@@CoastalDevelopment haha I'm sure you lack my level of inexperience. Keep the hose long and all the good stuff =)

[@Richard1976]

Can every first and second stage handle a long hose? I do understand it would be best your octopus should be the same quality as your normal second stage regulator, but is there also a "tecdive/recreational" way to use the yellow octopus with the long hose/necklace combination in recreational diving? I have to buy my set again since I have stopped diving for years. Seeing both configurations I tend to go straight to the more tec diving configuration than the standard recreational configuration. Seeing the tech configuration it seems to be so obvious how to use your setup in the most save way.

[@Blubpaule]

Yes every regulator can handle that.

[@haveUSPwilltravel]

Richard van Tricht Steve Martin has an interesting take on this. While I dive a longhose setup, I appreciate his thought on a " if you must" approach to a 1M Octo setup. Not going to get too into it, but it involves routing the Octo under the left arm. It uses the hose length better, and puts the second stage in the same spot.

[@Richard1976]

@@haveUSPwilltravel I don't really understand what you mean 🙄

[@Graggs]

If you are buying your kit again and thinking of adopting the long hose, then find a TEC instructor or an instructor that uses a long hose setup and have a proper discussion with him and maybe get into a safe environment and try some scenarios. I am a long hose fanboy, but that doesn't mean it right for everyone.

[@Richard1976]

@@Graggs thanks 👌

[@keco59]

Me gustaría ver la misma explicación pero con sustitulos en español para poder entenderlo al 100%

[@garymckinziejr7194]

My only concern is I like my molded mouth piece. Should I try and find a generic mouth piece that doesn’t irritate my gums?

[@mrchriscarleton]

So why not get two moulded mouth pieces and put one on each of your second stages? An out-of-air diver is not going to be picky about the mouthpiece that saves their lives. And for rec diving, even if they find it mildly uncomfortable, they only need to put up with it long enough for you to get to the surface. I know I wouldn't be complaining!

[@kengustafson2800]

The original video you mention has been removed and replaced with this one. kzbin.info/www/bejne/kGHXpIuebt6efbM&feature=emb_logo

[@laloloco1925]

Achim, in case you haven't seen it yet, this is the video that got the long hose in discussion recently: kzbin.info/www/bejne/kGHXpIuebt6efbM

[@mireyes293]

kzbin.info/www/bejne/kGHXpIuebt6efbM Most likely brought up due to this video. He produced an earlier video which is now deleted due to several wrong assumptions about long hose. Now is a bit more neutral but still with few contentious points like recreational divers not expecting to run out of air and then grabbing your secondary without you knowing about it...

[@timgosling6189]

As others have commented I believe the start of this may have been the Alec Peirce video (kzbin.info/www/bejne/kGHXpIuebt6efbM&lc=UgzHhXTuc5neaB4ehbp4AaABAg). My comment to Alec was: 'I agree and disagree. First, when I'm in a mixed group on holiday I take a standard singles rig and the alternate is the big yellow thing that everyone expects and is trained to use, for all the reasons you say. But when, still as a recreational diver, I'm diving my doubles, I'll use the long hose. Again, it's what the group expects and is trained to use. And although its origin was in cave and wreck diving, it's still nice to have a bit more space within which my buddy and I can manoeuvre, even in an open environment. As to why you donate the long hose out of your mouth, if you kept it as an alternate it would have to be clipped off to stop it getting wayward and that would make it more difficult to donate. As it is I've practiced reg swaps and donations hundreds of times and not once have I had a mouthful of water; I don't know anyone who has. So it is safe and quick. I was actually slightly disappointed that the guy in your video had to glance down to locate his necklace reg as he should be able to do it blindfold. Also, as the guy in the clip showed, you only put the long hose once round the neck so it does indeed come off with that one single motion; any loose hose gets tucked into the harness so it's easy to pull out. So the long hose does have a general use: it gives you more space. But I agree that it should only be used when both parties who may need it are properly trained'. One of my pet hates is to see people swimming around with stuff dragging everywhere, and SPGs and alternates are the most common culprits. Moving to a wing and backplate gave me the push to make sure everything was streamlined and properly secured and my 'holiday' rig has the octopus clipped off with a bolt-snap on my right chest D-ring, just as I would have my long hose when not in use. It also has a weak-link so if someone does rip it in panic, they will succeed. I also regularly breath from it, both as a check and to give it some exercise. After all, if I pay to have both serviced they might as well both get some use! Grateful for any thoughts. Regarding weighting, the vast majority of people I've seen in BCDs use the integrated pockets, somewhat reducing instability in roll when swimming flat, and even instructors are often surprised that my weight is concentrated around my spine. But with the rigidity of the harness-backplate-cylinder unit, that configuration keeps my centre of gravity and centre of buoyancy almost exactly on the same axis so I can stay perfectly trimmed at any angle.

[@divingmadd6219]

The longhose and wing setup is the most logical, safest set up in diving. Why do people disagree with it? They don’t understand it and are unfamiliar with it.

[@stefanharrington-palmer5379]

I assume that this is going to be based on kzbin.info/www/bejne/kGHXpIuebt6efbM video, I tend to like his videos but talks about 'multiple around the neck loops' (which sounds unsafe!) and how unsafe it is. He uses the term 'SAFE, SAFE, SAFE' a great many times to refer to the standard length yellow octopus.

[@michaelbeiyt]

Wie das wohl war als Auftriebswesten, Manometer und zweite Regler eingeführt wurden? Da wird es wohl auch Leute gegeben haben, die lieber über den Grund krabbelten und den Flaschendruck erspürten.

[@AndreiAstrakharchik]

Achim, here is the direct question no one asked: Should rec divers use the long hose?

[@PaulRitzkat]

Why not? Is there anything that prevents rec divers from using it? I'm a rec/warm water/vacation diver, ~150 dives in and I'm using a longhose/BPW setup since dive ~15. Best decision ever...

[@obaranovsky]

I've seen a lot of rec divers use the long hose - it is more common than people think. The only reason it is not more ubiquitous is because after passing of Ralph Erickson, the major rec certification agency was sold to a bunch of investment funds and the first thing they did was to lay off their teaching and curriculum departments and ramp up the marketing. So all the rec teaching curriculum haven't change for decades. Those PADI OW videos, for instance, were made in 1980s. And a lot of new diving innovations just didn't make it into their programs. The same thing about backplate and wing - somehow it is considered a "technical" configuration. Well, it is not, it is most appropriate for recreational divers, and in fact, is getting pretty popular.

[@chinarider022474]

The long hose configuration/Hogarthian rig will work for a 30 foot reef dive in the Keys as well as a 270 foot wreck dive in Lake Michigan. I hope to see the day when it is universally adopted.

[@Lossann]

I would also guess that it is the Alec Peirce video the comet was referring to: kzbin.info/www/bejne/kGHXpIuebt6efbM He makes nice videos about Tech Tipps, but has no idea about Modern Tec Diving...

[@subie_frank]

I'm pretty sure this is the video that caused all this. kzbin.info/www/bejne/kGHXpIuebt6efbM

[@SeattleRingHunter]

Also another option for someone that is a recreational diver looking to upgrade from that old bag BC system. Consider checking out the SCUBA Pro Hydros Pro! With over 100 dives on this kit it I can personally attest to its comfort, value and brilliant over all design. Makes for great travel BC as well as a daily work horse. 👍🤙 Cheers, --> #SeattleRingHunter

[@alan.p.318]

I personally prefers a 1.5m or 1m hose with elbow over a 2.1m hose, and using Air2 than a necklace

[@SeattleRingHunter]

I have an Air2 and appreciate the steam line access it provides. I am also comfortable donating my primary to a diver in need so I am not hung up over the Air2 system. Man if I had a dollar for every recreational dive master that talks shit bout my Air2 though. Some diver professionals are just stuck in their way of thinking and training that they can't see past it.

[@alan.p.318]

@@SeattleRingHunter I have to admit that donating long hose primary is not as simple and spontaneous as "come grab my octopus" or "here take my octopus", but at the same time not as difficult as i could only use a long hose after a proper tech dive training (I'm using a 1.5m hose)

[@sbmillward]

Thanks for another informative video, Achim. Here is a link to the video I believe your may have been referencing in your talk: kzbin.info/www/bejne/kGHXpIuebt6efbM

[@gorak42]

Just found your channel - great content. I think the problem with a long hose setup for rec divers is with the diver who goes to the caribbean once a year - if they dive with a long hose and back plate they will likely be the only one on the boat with that setup. Not a problem if they are comfortable, have a good dive partner who is also setup and comfortable - but for everyone else they will appear a bit foreign. In this case it is less about what is the better configuration and more about what is the expected configuration. my 2 cents - looking forward to going through the rest of your vids - keep it up!

[@eugeneschreiner2859]

I was certified by a US Navy diver. He taught us that shorter hoses are safer. One, if you you are diving in lo viz you couldn’t see a long hose or your buddy. We learned to share air from the primary. A panicking diver is more dangerous with a long hose. What works for you doesn’t work for everyone. I do a lot of solo diving and would rather have short hoses. It is more important to be familiar with your equipment than long hoses etc.

[@mariagarciagarcia5391]

👏🏼👏🏼👏🏼👏🏼

[@MegaEpicLlama]

Why would a panicking diver be more dangerous with a long hose? Long hose let's you keep distance from a dangerous diver, but it doesn't stop you from grabbing a nervous diver if you want to control them. Long hose literally gives you options to chose from depending on the situation. In low visibility the same applies, long hose doesn't stop you from being right next to your buddy. Cave divers are notorious for using long hoses, and they have a serious risk of silting and losing visibility. I agree that knowing your configuration is more important, but that applies to either long and short hose. A diver with a long hose also needs to be familiar with their configuration.

[@averagediver1819]

I haven't been diving very long in comparison but to me this is just a bash on inexperienced divers and contains little to know information on the title. I have never heard of an agency telling divers to just press and listen for air coming from their octo. That to me is very misleading and a ridiculous statement. Assuming you have to be a technical diver to have the want to check your octo is clearly misleading. Each setup very much has their place and to me that should have been what was focused on. Your equipment is just as susceptible to the elements as anyone else and I ask. When you see these divers with all the dangling equipment what have you done to educate them?

[@juannaval541]

Hi I just read your comments, thanks for taking the time to share them. First of all, we don't look out to bash inexperienced divers. We all started somewhere. In fact, we post these videos to encourage divers to learn outside training and gain knowledge. Training wise, we specifically don't do back to back classes for upgrades because there's a lot to learn outside during "fun" dives. There's a lot of learning in the water so to speak. When it comes to sharing these anecdotal stories, they do happen. We've seen them, we've taught students who've been through them, so it's not misleading at all. No one is saying you have to be a technical diver to go through an air check. That's supposed to be part of any diver's training; but in reality, how often is it done? If you come to where I live, you see it's neglected most of the time. Consequently, so is the octopus. This video talks about the differences in the bc/octo configuration as compared to the backplate/wing/longhose configuration and why we prefer the latter in our training. In ISE (even in our recreational programs) we use this type of setup as it supports our diving style and on in a larger picture, our end goals. We keep the training consistent from the beginner levels to the more advanced technical programs. Is it a choice of ours to teach what we see works to our goals, absolutely. Is it for everyone, most definitely not. Not everyone sees the need to be streamlined and flat, or part of a team environment to increase a safety net. As for your question, we aren't the sort who go out and chastise divers who have dangling equipment and give them unsolicited advise. But by example, we keep it streamlined and neat. In my experience, typically the divers who are interested to learn the way we dive, come and ask questions. To whom we gladly share. Note again our end goal, the reason we don't like dangling equipment is for both personal and team safety, particularly important in environments that are challenging. The long hose configuration, is only one small part of the whole ISE diving philosophy.

[@rsqdivr2000]

great videos as always but jeez, 6:00 into a 15:00 video before you even start talking about the subject (regulators) and 12:00 before you really start to talk about the long hose!!!

[@andrecandrade]

Arrogant tech divers!

[@CoastalDevelopment]

I would prefer to be an arrogant tech diver over in ignorant uneducated fool - but thanks god I am neither nor. :-D

[@andrecandrade]

@@CoastalDevelopment Tech divers dream they are badass Navy Seals...So funny!

[@lhotse1716]

@@andrecandrade I'm new to this, can you explain? To me, what they say makes sense

[@CoastalDevelopment]

@Fluffy Hamster we ae not burning people (anymore) it is not CO2 neutral - today we drown them ;-)

[@aevans692]

there is nothing stopping people wearing a secondary octo on a necklace , it doesn't need to be dragging along , or neglected , it is close should you need it by yourself , its visible for your buddy to take, ... I see pros and cons for both systems ... long hose donate is deff beneficial in close or confined spaces, which I believe was its roots of intended use .. every other argument about for and agains seems a little weak ...

[@HajdeBreVise]

Very disappointing. First of all you need to focus on what you want to say. There is no way in you can share all you know in one video. You got to long hoze after 2 thirds of your video has passed. Second I find your argument really disappointing. It is probably not what you wanted to say. But you are advising people to use long hose becouse they do not checking their safe second. So in your argument give you give air you breath and if your safe second is bad you choke. You sound like you know better. I am someone who can only dive in few weeks when I am taking my family to holiday. Nothing bad about that. But if you want to responsibly advice people like me you need to give million % respect to Padi, SSI or any other training I have. Not put them in doubt. Training is clear. You check both regulators. You clip yellow visible safe second in triangle area in your front. That is where we look for it and that is how you have it ready. If you with your huge experience do not like this set up that is fine. You can explain why you like it and why you think it is better. Hopefully with in first few minutes of video. Until than no matter how many thousands of dives you have more than me I would not be diving with you. Let me know when you get better. I do not think you are bad guys. You just think that your experience is giving you right to change rules. If I was not clear try driving in opposite way of traffic :)

[@brois841]

I have to disagree with this video. These guys are advanced technical divers who are used to using a longhose setup. This setup is additional training which comes as part of Intro to Tech or AN/DP. Either way, it's something you learn and practice (a lot) once you get into doubles. If, as they claim, a diver can't be bothered to check their octo, then that diver certainly is not a technical diver and doesn't need the additional complexity of a longhose. It'll more likely get them in trouble rather than help anyone. This is a perfect example of overthinking. KISS!!

[@appliedtechnicaldiving6198]

We teach longhose even in our recreational level 1 classes, which when trained, in no more amount of training it takes than any other piece of equipment, isn't really complex at all. In fact, it lends to consistency and predictability...ultimately keeping it super simple even when extended to diffusing a potentially stressful situation. If a diver can't be bothered to check their octo, then that diver probably shouldn't even be diving at all. When it comes to practicing, it's always a good habit to practice life support skills as part of the law of exercise, recreational or otherwise.

[@brois841]

@@appliedtechnicaldiving6198 in a perfect world... sure, but we live in reality. I see the average diver on a weekly basis, they don't need a long-hose... in fact, it'll just get in the way. My son (10) got certified last year, he doesn't use a long hose and I'd never teach it to him. Again, theory vs. reality. Kind of like we wish every driver were a perfect driver and practiced certain skills and signaled and all that. But then you get on the road.... and you get your average driver ;)

[@MegaEpicLlama]

@@brois841 divers come into open water courses never having breathed from a regulator and manage to learn short hose configuration in a couple of days. There is no reason why they wouldn't be able to learn long hose configuration in an open water course too. It's different protocol, but it's hardly something complicated. People can learn how to use it in a day of training. Long hoses don't get in the way any more than the long occy hose in a short configuration. In fact they are more standardized, making muscle memory easier. In contrast people put their occys anywhere on the so-called triangle of life, and attach it in a variety of ways, basically following no consistent standard.

[@brois841]

@@MegaEpicLlama you need to come to SFL and watch some of these vacation divers. I know what you're saying, but it's additional unnecessary skills. Long hose was meant for getting out of caves/overhead, it's unnecessary in open water.