The Lore of Messmer the Impaler in 5 minutes - Elden Ring Shadow of the Erdtree Trailer Analysis

[@Marinthees]

Subbed! Really happy to finally see someone talk about Mesmers eye compared to Melinas eye. I think there are a lot of parallels between the two that we will see moving forward. Theres a lot of lore evidence that the Erdtree was burned once before, and I think Mesmer is the most obvious answer as to who committed that first burning. This would draw yet another parallel with Melina since she of course burned the Erdtree herself as well.

[@ZayftheScholar]

Thanks so much for being my first sub! That is a great point. I am super intrigued to see if there is connection between the two. Certainly seems likely.

[@xaviermoreau-raymond9269]

I have a theory that messmer is Melinas alter ego like radagon or saint Trina

[@beansnrice321]

Not to get too into talking about Messmer just yet but I do have some food for thought. After brushing up on Celtic mythology, I'm convinced that Messmer is akin to Lugh and Miquella is akin to Bres the beautiful. Lugh's weapon was a firey spear and he was sometimes shown with a two headed snake wrapped around him. He was also known to wield fire. Lugh was also know as, "Lugh of the Long Arm." He was also half god and half giant and killed the Dagda, the, "Good God," who controlled life and death and was the father of druids. He also lead the fight vs the Formorians and killed the one-eyed lord of the Formorians, Balor, who was also his father. Bres was also called Eochu Bres or, "the beautiful horseman." Sometimes just called, "Eochaid." He was the beautiful son of of the one-eyed Balor and was the lord of the Formorians after Balor was killed. He was made king of the Tuatha Dé Danann when Nuada was disqualified due to the loss of his hand. Bres was known to be a bad king who made their equivalent of Zeus dig ditches. There is a little overlap and things don't match perfectl. I also see Miquella-as-Bres to be an inversion of Bres in a number of ways. For instance Bres was known to age very rapidly and was a full grown adult after only 11 years or something. Still, despite the overlap and inversions there are some incredible similarities. The Formorians were also called, "the sea people."

[@ZayftheScholar]

That is actually really interesting! Thank you for sharing it as I know next to nothing about Celtic mythology. I have actually seen other theories comparing Messmer to an ancient Mesopotamian god as well. The more you read into Miquella's lore, the more comparisons you see to christ as well. A beloved but eventually tragic salvation type figure for the downtrodden in the lands between whose symbol of self sacrifice (the haligtree) serves as a beacon of hope. In any case, I appreciate your insights, thanks!

[@ZayftheScholar]

I might make a video about these possible historical influences and will credit you if I do!

[@beansnrice321]

@@ZayftheScholarOh thank you! Yeah, I think the Christian imagery and allegory is more up front and more accessible to most players. However I found out a lot about Celtic lore because I was looking up references I found in Tolkien and I was looking up Tolkien because there are countless Lord of the Rings elements in Elden Ring as well. For example, The Numen are almost certainly a reference to the Numenorians of Tolkien, who sailed to Middle earth after Eru Iluvitar sank their Island home to cleanse the world of their growing wickedness. In fact Tolkien was greatly inspired by the Welsh language when he developed his languages and lore for Middle earth. Also there seems to be even more Welsh and Lord of the Rings references in the original Dark Souls Series. Gwyn mean white in Welsh, for example and Lloyd means grey . The merchant Domhnall of Zena's name is also Welsh or possibly Irish and his greeting of, "Aye, siwmae." Is a Welsh greeting. I got most of my info from the YT channel, Fortress of Lugh. I'd check them out if you want to brush up more on your lore. That and I also re-watched Vinland Saga. I even think that the Manga Berserk was based off of some Welsh characters. Rhys ap Gruffydd was a Welsh Price known for reconstituting a failed kingdom and Gruffydd apparently anglicises to "Griffith."

[@ZayftheScholar]

@@beansnrice321 thank you as well! I love Tolkien and am kind of embarrassed that I never connected the Numen to the Numenorians: so obvious! I'll have to check out that channel you mentioned. Vinland Saga and Berserk are both goated

[@K8theKind]

This lines up pretty well with the parallels I’ve been pointing out between Marika and Melusine. The dragon queen who danced her ring eternal and hid from her husband on Saturdays as she bathed in order to hide her dragon form from him. She had children that also had to hide their true forms. As they were seen by some to be abomination. After the husband broke his vow to honour her privacy on Saturdays, she fled across the sea in hiding and was never seen again.

[@LabyrinthMole]

That's a good observation. It makes sense that Melon uh and Messmer could be siblings. The alliteration would be consistent with that.

[@alienengine107harrison7]

Interestingly, Radagon and Rennala did the same thing as Marika with their children. Radahn, Rykard, and Ranni all start with R.

[@mohammedrazaesmail6934]

There is a part when before fighting morgot, he shows you the chairs of the Demi gods. The arrangement is weird becuase it seems like one chair is missing, like there is an unusually big gap between the chairs. Could this have been messmers chair?? Also morgott mentions all the Demi gods except Messmer. Did he not know about his existence? Also interesting to note that all the Demi gods from queen Merika start with an M expect her most prized child, Godwyn the golden. Why would that be the case?

[@Yami1300]

Messmer feels like a mix of factions all into one character Tge Red hair is a Simbol for Radaghon nd Radham,but at the same time, it could be a hint to his connection to the Fire Gigants The fire he uses reminded me of the fire of Fire Gigant The Snakes are Rykard The multiple hands reminds me of Godrick and Ranny The Armor a bit of Malenia and the wepons he pulls from the rotten knights

[@K8theKind]

I do not think Messmer is devoted to Marika. Nor do I think he is supportive of grace or admiring of those who have it. I think he was saying all he said in a mocking tone. Those of us divested of grace in the shadow lands would all also be tarnished or demigods from the lands between, right? Both threatening his aspiration to power but also, perhaps, coveting the golden substance that bleeds forth from the shadow tree. Messmer himself is bereft of light outside of his flames. Metaphorically dark. I think Messmer doesn’t understand his mother choosing a Lord like us that is… tarnished. Amused and surprised, he mocks her as though to say. “I thought grace was the be all end all in your eyes, yet here stands your chosen Elden Lord, graceless before me. Let it be known that all those whom golden grace as fled shall be felled by my hand and burned in my flames.”

[@beansnrice321]

I call to you for favor, my own good spirit, my Agathos Daemon, my companion through life. From the day of my birth you have walked next to me, turned me from all evil, kept me safe from those who would do me harm. In days of old, kind spirit, you received offerings of strong wine, you were honored at great banquets and in the home. Faithful one, unfailing guardian of my luck, I turn to you for counsel when I am in doubt, for direction when I am uncertain. Mild and helpful spirit, I thank you for your guidance, I thank you for your blessings. Agathos Daimon, I honor you.

[@dirmusloner7963]

I will stay strict at MESSMER in my thoughts here, but before let me say that Dragons are considered SERPENTS and JAPANESE DRAGONS DOESN'T HAVE WINGS and JAPANESE DRAGONS APPEARANCE IS MORE OF SERPENT. BUT NOW TO MESSMER 1. HIS OPENED EYE YES IS IDENTICAL TO DRAGON COMMUNION 2. HIS ARMOR IS IDENTICAL TO DRAKE KNIGHT SET BUT 3. HIS TOTTALY APPEARANCE WITH ARMOR STRECHED ARMS AND LEGS ALONG WITH PALE SKIN ALSO RESEMBLES TO GODSKIN AND MALENIA'S CLEAN ROT KNIGHTS 4. MESSMER FLAME IS SOMETHING LIKE SHADOW FLAME BECAUSE IF YOU LOOK CLOSELY BEFORE MESSMER FLAME TURNED RED IT IS A BLACK SHADOW THAT TAKES FORM OF A FLAME. 5. I LANDS BETWEEN THERE IS A DUNGEON CALLED IMPALER. 6. MIYAZAGI TOLD THAT MESSMER IS A DEMIGOD AND HAD A THRONE TO THE ROOM WE FOUGHT MORGOT AND HE SHOWS US THE THRONES (REMEMBER THE HUGE GAP BETWEEN THE THRONES BETWEEN GODRICKS AND THE TWUN PRODIGIES? THAT GAP WAS ONCE FILLED BY MESSMER'S THRONE. ABOUT MIQUELLA FROM THE TRAILLER WE KNOW THAT MIQUELLA GON TO THE LAND OF SHADOW DERIVED FROM. HIS FLESH HIS LINEAGE AND EVERYTHING THAT IS...... GOLDEN

[@NonisLuck]