The M4 Mac Mini is dead to me - Minisforum at CES

[@ShortCircuit]

Go to dbrand.com/ghost to get your Ghost Case 2.0! For a limited time, get $10 off, no coupon required

[@Zvxers7]

50$ for a case with a 10$ discount is crazy, not even including shipping

[@OanKnight]

You're at minisforum jake, talk about the NAS. TALK ABOUT THE NAS. wait this probably happened hours ago. GO BACK AND TALK ABOUT THE NAS.

[@SirCamWA]

@@OanKnight But he did

[@OanKnight]

@@SirCamWA Sorry. I was excited and had only just started the video when I posted.

[@shunorrr]

no

[@weirdg]

I can’t believe they put the power button on the front 😂

[@thelbtlover]

Yeah WTF is wrong with them? They should have put it on the bottom like a normal person.

[@mashumaro_desu]

​@@thelbtlover Yeah the power plug should have been on the bottom side too

[@sop1311]

tsk tsk clearly bad design. It's too functional!

[@ThanhThanh-it1pm]

​@@thelbtlover he's just trolling apple

[@MrMartinSchou]

Who does that? It's like they never even bothered to ask a UX expert!

[@stevew145]

As a canadian I would advise against buying minisforum on their website. They charged me hst. 15% and you know full well they didn't submit that to the canadian government, they're in china! When my v3 tablet that I paid hst on shipped with dhl, I had to pay an additional $70. Customs and hst on the declared value of around $200. I have the declaration form in my email clearing showing they never paid hst despite me giving them around $250 in hst. Shady. To make matters worse, my v3 was deffective. The screen failed after a few days, and I had to pay shipping from east coast to west coast of canada, then wait nearly 2 months for a replacement, that I had to pay more customs and tax on.

[@cajampa]

Thanks for the warning

[@jcfawerd]

Remember that "It's coming from asus so it's gonna be good" from Jake ?

Minisforum is a German company...

[@Jordan_C]

It may be worth contacting their support about the double taxation. I believe there is some sort of process but I'm not 100% sure. When I ordered my minisforum I didn't see any issues with massive double taxation on import other than the ripoff fee DHL charges for processing; might be worth checking your receipt from them for the exact tax to fee breakdown, mine was something huge like 8:1 fee to tax. As for the defective unit that definitely sucks and I have heard that their support is slow when it works and communication can take some work. Hopefully though you'll be able to sort out the large double taxation situation

[@chenseanxy]

Double taxation happens sometimes cuz international shipping is hard. Encountered this in Finland with a few vendors as well, and in all cases they've been able to refund me when contacted, so I'd recommend trying that

[@perkulant4629]

20% more power draw for almost twice the performance is pretty impressive.

[@ArthropodSpidey]

Adding clarity here that this is for the Intel vs. AMD version of the same computer. Before some PC fanboys (the most pathetic kind) say this is about the Mac Mini instead.

[@ArcticFox63]

7945HX is 1000 points slower single core in geekbench and only 1200 points higher multicore than base 10 Core Mac Mini M4 which has only 4 P cores and 6 E cores which is pretty poor considering this is a 16 core 32 thread chip. Not sure why the Mac Mini is "dead" compared to a slower machine.

[@leonro]

​@@ArcticFox63It's typical youtube titles, though it was explained that it's roughly equivalent in price to the mac mini whilst not having extortion level pricing for upgrades to the ssd and ram.

[@ArcticFox63]

@@leonro True, it does have the edge in upgradeability and flexibility it depends what you want in a machine.

[@lukeh990]

I literally just saw the subreddit post with Jake sitting at the Minisforum booth. lol

[@j3sv1n]

Wdym AMD = no USB4? AMD doesnt have thunderbolt, not usb4

[@MrFluke039]

usb 4 = 40gbps but it 10gbps so it not

[@MrFluke039]

but i think they just reuse the case so intel version or another model gonna have usb 4 for sure

[@FrIoSrHy]

​@@MrFluke039Not sure if that was a minisforum decision or if it is a limitation of the chip.

[@MrFluke039]

@@FrIoSrHy i mean nas pc is also amd and has usb 4

[@j3sv1n]

@@MrFluke039 i didn't mean that, I just meant that having an amd chip doesn't mean you don't get usb4 (maybe with this particular chip you don't, idk)

[@Chaosghoul]

3:30 To be honest: I love the fact that it is specifically *not* liquid metal. For a device that I am going to use and maybe lug around a couple times for years to come, it is just an additional high risk point of failure that is frankly unnecessary

[@mavfan1]

Are you usually dishonest?

[@levenossgaming4802]

​@mavfan1 At least we are getting the honesty here right?

[@fayenotfaye]

skill issue

[@TheOnceAndFutureDoug]

That last bit, Synology needs to get real nervous.

[@colinstu]

Synology has abandoned the consumer segment pretty much. Their older consumer stuff is still up but software and support going down the tubes.

[@spdcrzy]

Yeahhhh that's a fucking MONSTER of a system. Having a GPU for transcoding is the killer app here, especially for the price.

[@moogs]

Dumped synology last year after almost 2 decades of being a user. Overpriced proprietary nonsense. Garbage company

[@colinstu]

​@@moogs same. DS412+ to RS1619XS+ and now ditching entirely and built my own w/proxmox and truenas VM. Never lookin back.

[@ThatGuy-fi9qh]

One month from now: This thing I just told you is great is dead to me

[@MrSongib]

My brain: Powered by SteamOS

[@MostlyFoolish]

What is the stock GPU performance vs the Mac Mini ?

[@liefhebber6277]

7945 HX’s IGPU is dogwater compared to an m4. you can look up comparisons

[@MadMetalMacho]

Oh you, asking questions about things strangely omitted from the video...

[@LtdJorge]

That model's GPU is only fro driving displays. It cannot do any 3D or acceleration besides video whatsoever. The laptop ones, with the 680m and such are very powerful in comparison. These assume that you'll be using a dedicated GPU or won't be doing GPU stuff.

[@remainsmemories626]

Yes please, double u.2 interface would be awesome! Or, if possible, give us the option to connect EDSFF drives!

[@manyamaggot]

That Nas is pretty insane

[@mahdiabbas1484]

Only reason I’m using 4 mac mins in my rack is because of the integrated power supply and having them all uniform size up until the new one I have a 2012 Mac mini to a M1 Mac mini all rack mounted and I use this for production and events just wish other manufacturers integrated their power supplies into the form factor

[@matt5721]

Literally every rack mount PC ever made has an integrated power supply

[@mahdiabbas1484]

@@matt5721 the difference is 99% of rackmount PCs will take up a whole u by itself and deeper than a Mac mini would be if you look up Mac mini rack mounted you can fit two of them in a single u in very short depth you can also rackmount mini pcs, but the power supplies are not integrated, which just means it’s taking up space somewhere else.

[@Fran-kc2gu]

Find a real problem, that's just trying to find problems when the don't exist

[@mahdiabbas1484]

@@Fran-kc2gu it’s probably a use case that you don’t have to deal with but I have to take my equipment with me to every job. I have 4 Mac mini‘s and HDMI switcher, HDMI matrix,UPS,extenders multiple other pieces of A/V equipment all in a 10u road case

[@rainbowkeykaraoke]

I notice you didn't show the power brick. The Mac Minis is built in!

[@matt5721]

Which was an awful decision. Why include USB A when you can eliminate a problem no one ever had!?

[@Malc180s]

​@@matt5721bot, reported

[@jothain]

Who cares. More reliability that PSU isn't integrated on mobo.

[@geebster.]

Absolutely prefer it not to be for a desktop device. If it fails Apple will charge you as much as the device costs to fix it. If it does on this you buy another and ur good

[@ArthropodSpidey]

@@Malc180s immature child, reported

[@hybridmx5]

How loud does the fan get especially when you start to push the system?

[@DAVISION-YT]

Show me just one with the Single Core Performance, Memory Bandwidth, Power Consumption and Noise of the M4 Mac Mini.

[@minecraftmaniac360]

Out of curiosity, what would you use an OCulink connection for on a NAS?

[@Fran-kc2gu]

You can put a external GPU, setup proxmox with window, steam os and game on in through the display outputs

[@molecularentropy]

16:31 He says you can get things like this for ~$300. What are these called? What do I google for?

[@glamouraz]

I believe he said "Now this is a very competitive space. You can get two, three, four, maybe even five-bay NAS units in the realm of two/three/four-hundred bucks US."

[@niter43]

In case KZbin nuked my other comment with proper explanation -- those are called Network attached storage (NAS).

[@cybernetennis]

I can verify the new ghost case has much better magnets and while a little chunkier its a really damn good case

[@Whatnoww]

Ghost case 2 arrived recently and it’s genuinely impressive looking.

[@combat.wombat]

Minipc has sfp+ ports but the nas doesn't? lolwtf

[@accik]

Different target audience perhaps? But agreed since sfp+ is more versatile.

[@hruettimann]

Yes, please loose the 5Gbps RJ45 copper connector and replace it with a SFP+ port!

[@-cliff.fern4593]

7:14 comes with a gpu too? Or gotta buy and add it manually? Cause that changes things. Anyone has any idea about a mini pc vs mini mac ? Especially the price bump of a gpu

[@ronmaximilian6953]

The AMD CPU includes a GPU and npu.

[@robotmustache1987]

Ya but the built in GPU will drive a monitor and that is about it. Forget about anything that is even a little graphically intense like video editing or gaming! I too would like to know how much it costs to get an M4 equivalent GPU in there. Then it would be a more level comparison. I have a feeling a good GPU will raise the price significantly!

[@anostio]

​@@robotmustache1987you would have to buy a LP 3050

[@seethruhead7119]

removing 10gbe from the lower end models would be a massive mistake

[@A_Balanced_Breakfast]

The vast, VAST majority of use cases for small form factor PCs like this have absolutely no need for anything more than 1gbe. Like less than 0.1% of customers for this type of product need anything more than like 100mbps.

[@Joanyan]

you don't need 10gbe

[@jamesp1389]

I'd be fine with 2.5

[@richardbeirne827]

Please don't remove 10Gb on the Lower end models. Everyone who was looking at the 01 instantly ignored the A1 for this reason.

[@green_monday]

As an apple guy -- what is MS customer service like? Hard to beat Apple CS.

[@johnpyp]

I'd very much like the two U.2 SSD version - used enterprise drives off ebay perform amazingly well and are cheaper than equivalent storage consumer drives! 4TB enterprise perf for like $170!

[@beholdr87]

So MS-A2 with two U.2 SSDs when?

[@tempacc9589]

Bro those 4060 laptop GPUs for desktop need a review. That's wild.

[@MarkVO]

Yes, you can beat the Mac Mini performance in small form factor by spending more money and consuming 5x the power? I don't believe the displayed configuration starts at $700.

[@MitternachtAngel]

Something that I don't understand is how to take advantage of the USB 4. I have USB 3.2x2 and the limitation are the cables, USB enclosure and everything I try to use with it.

[@classicrockonly]

I need this but with ECC. Perfect SmartOS hypervisor host then. Or a much weaker processor to lower the cost and make it into a home router

[@Liverblow1]

The NAS looks amazing, the fact you can upgrade it too is pretty sick.

[@fujiliew6342]

almost bought a MS-01 today until I saw your post for MS-A2. worth the wait.

[@azenyr]

Ok this might be the first mini pc that actually made me interested in mini PCs. Very upgradable, lots of ssd slots, dedicated GPU slot, very small and compact, very well built, not very expensive... well done minisforum. I never thought I would be interested in mini PCs... The Mac Mini starting with 256GB and completely non upgradable is a complete joke compared to this.

[@jimcallahan448]

ECC is important for some advanced file systems such as ZFS; ECC prevents bit-rot.

[@allanau]

Nice but really the Mac Mini is still a lot smaller plus you need a power brick for that MS.

[@roadrash999]

they're both going to be hidden behind the monitor/under the desk, so it doesn't matter when they're both this small.

[@matt5721]

It's an appliance not an art piece. Power bricks are such a dunk to Apple stans until you mention the iMac Ethernet+power brick, which is just an irredeemable sin unto God. Then it was smart to make a stationary object as lithe as possible

[@RayanMADAO]

Also has a much better integrated gpu on the Mac

[@joshuaosei5628]

@@RayanMADAO the new ryzen ai chips are looking kinda insane rn, maybe they’ll compete well with m4 in sff desktops when they’re getting more power

[@gregor2436]

For the Mac mini you need an SSD case etc. Which is way worse xD . In the end, it is not a notebook. You usually don't travel with it - both are small enough for everything

[@Tom_Nguyen.]

Comparing the macs to an actual computer is like Comparing apples to orange, they're not the same I'll use the steamdeck analogy : Ppl were comparing price/performance of the legion go saying its low compared to the steamdeck, thing is they can sell the steamdeck at low price and make money back by people buying games ,steam take 30% price remember? Lenovo can't do that Same things for apple, literally all apple user I've ever met hate piracy, they all buy from the store, thats how apple make goddamn lots of money All other computers? Not so much If it's windows, makers have to buy a license for every single machine they sell, how do they even compete That's why we don't compare macs to actual computers

[@signa8]

I have a mini PC from Minisforum since June, and its basically the only PC I use now because it doesn't heat up my room

[@houndsol]

the sfp+ is so cool, but lack of thunderbolt 40g (or is it 20) networking is unfortunate

[@aleksanderhr.fredro8407]

Isnt the jmicron sata bridge preventing some C states?

[@mibsweden]

I wonder about the noise levels on that thing compared to the Mac Mini.

[@dustinpoissant]

"ive been waiting for this since it was release"... so basically you were not waiting for it lol

[@supremebeme]

Epic! I need this to power my radio station with real time visuals.

[@huggekarlsson]

I really hope Qnaps QM2 module works in the MS-A2! Would make a great Truenas box if the MS-A2 with 32 GB of ram is below $700

[@ptaf92]

Can you plug in an eGPU to it?

[@Battlevader]

To me it doesn't matter how many more watts they can put into these little machines. Efficiency is way more impressive than raw performance, especially with this form factor.

[@Although29]

Faster than a Mac mini. But releases 5 months before apple will release another Mac mini.

[@whatitfeels.]

for cpu yes for gpu nah

[@andrewdelaney5199]

Almost perfect. But they should change the jmb585 for asm1166 so CPU c-states work properly and the power consumption can be lower. But hey, maybe the could do a future 6 drive version with that...

[@okoeroo]

You missed the internal usb on the N5 😉

[@blahblahblah1787]

Love my MS-01. Unraid in a Proxmox VM with HBA going to a JBOD is the move.

[@theordinarydude2104]

I stopped at “no USB4”…they chose poorly. AMD makes chipsets with USB 4. Mac and Intel both have Thunderbolt.

[@lvalentin91]

The closer you look, the more wrinkles you find…

[@matt5721]

It has a dedicated GPU, what possible use case is there for 40gbps USB?

[@Dathaniel]

Why wouldn't they compared the MS-A2 to the MS-A1?

[@gerowen]

One of those NAS units may end up becoming my new home server. I've got an inefficient old AMD FX 8370 in a tower right now and it's "fine"; but I'd like something a bit new, faster and more efficient. I've got a UM 890 Pro on the way in the mail right now for general desktop use in the living room.

[@christianbaer2897]

What I would really love for the N5 Pro, is a commitment to upgradability. I want to be able to buy a new "compute bay", to just replace the old one and be good if it breaks or if 5-7 years down the line I want more performance from newer chips.

[@brettbuterbaugh934]

Let's be real, someone is going to use the N5 as a Steam box with Steam OS for their bedroom, bathroom, or some other space due to the storage space for all of their library.

[@emilyshabang]

Who would need this? The GPU is the issue that kills it for me

[@KangoV]

I want this for dev machine. I don't need a huge GPU. I want the NAS to run Kubernetes clusters on ;)

[@landscape1570]

Wow, who would have thought it was 2x faster than an M4 Mac Mini while drawing more than double the power 😮

[@ronmaximilian6953]

I don't know about you, but I'm getting one of these and I'm going to put in an Intel i350 Network adapter and run A firewall, switch, and Nas on promox. It's a network cabinet in a box.

[@korduran]

I’m still hoping for an ECC mobo only version so I can rebuild a couple of rack mounted servers I have for home. Still, nice upgrades.

[@AzNcRzY85]

Minisforum is acutally really listening to us users. We wanted a AMD version & a NAS version of the MS-01 and they prototyped the 2 devices we wanted 😍😍😍😍🔥🔥🔥🔥 Insta-buy for me. Finally I have my eyes and mind on a NAS I really want to buy 🙌🏼🙌🏼🙌🏼

[@markus.schiefer]

At first glance the Minisforum devices look pretty nice, but at least in the past there have been issues from rare power brick connectors, at least in the EU, over lack of fax sensors and control to USB issue because the PCH was overheating. Right now, I still wouldn't recommend them, which is a shame, since they have potential, and we need more small / tiny PC like this.

[@anthonyyu2722]

About damn time they came out with the AMD version of the MS-01.

[@pronoP2]

if they come out with Core i3 or equivalent Intel chip for 100bucks less. I think this will be the best Barebones NAS system out there.

[@Spikyzzzz]

Just wondered if they ended their sponsorship with iFixit since they came up with their own precision screwdrivers..

[@TheAnonLee]

Honestly with a low profile graphics card this could make a killer little gaming pc. Def gonna keep an eye on this.

[@EyesOfByes]

3:58 U.2? F**k yeah! After market Optane SSDs FTW! 4:50 Yes! Yes! Yes!!! Imagine P5800X in RAID 0, that would be insane!

[@DeNNiiiable]

3x A2s please. Where do I send the ca$h. The nas has potential but reminds me of the Zuma cube pro a bit

[@EndriuC]

"The same price, with WAY more expansion, way faster speeds... You don't have MacOS" Wow, does it have ANY flaws?

[@jim_bocho]

"Because it has 10 gig I can compare it to the 10 gig Mac mini"? Except even the base M4 has 40Gbit/s through Thunderbolt 4. Or do you mean the Ethernet? External connectivity is really the main drawback for AMD systems.

[@Padlock_Steve]

present jake mogging past jake

[@martins7194]

Do hope they keep running the MS-01.

[@insu_na]

MS-A2 with ECC support would already be perfect for me and an instant buy...

[@charleshellyar4188]

whats the point of the usb 2.0 port put a type c

[@happosade]

Will SteamOS work on that?

[@toastertag7536]

since when is the the PTM 69,95 buvks?

[@icebalm]

WTF? Why would they put 10GbE SFP+ on the workstation and 10GbE RJ45 on the NAS? Reverse that or use SFP+ everywhere....

[@spdcrzy]

No, that's the correct way to do it. What the fuck does a NAS need SFP+ for? It's ludicrously expensive, holds no advantage in speeds or latency when it comes to sending content over a network or transcoding video, and requires a specialized firmware all on its own. But if you're doing cluster compute on a bunch of mini-PCs? SFP+ is PERFECT.

[@KuldarLeement]

I would love to see a bigger version of this what actually can fit a gpu in it like rtx 6000 or something. Like it has so much potential to be epic.

[@brandonbraner]

Honest question why put cpus from 2023 vs newer cpus in these?

[@ThanasisGrivas]

"it doesn't have mac os" bro that is an advantage.

[@lodoss118]

What are the dimensions of this thing?

[@-iIIiiiiiIiiiiIIIiiIi-]

Get that old-ass Radeon 610M shit outta here bro!

[@matt5721]

It has a dGPU...

[@bluehonour02]

Except that the power consumption is atrocious and double than M4 under full load, not to mention the idle wattage of M4, Mac Mini has Thunderbolt 4 and 5 which maxes at 80 Gbps while this supports only 10 Gbps, my 7-years old laptop has the same USB specs.

[@nrees87]

Still no oculink port for external egpu enclosure. Such a waste. Iove my fleet of MS-01s (and will almost certainly pick up an AMD version at some point), but the lack of an easy way to put an eGPU on these things is a missed opportunity imho

[@kiddy1992]

it's called a regular ATX desktop

[@woodland4380]

I would maybe take down that thumbnail with flames in the background behind Jake when all of the US is looking at LA ablaze 😬

[@michaelschafferAT]

My Instagram is full of ads for it. But I don't see it as a Mac replacement. I would be interested in using it as a home server.

[@Cyrame]

great music choice in this video!

[@kashifurrehman1854]

Vote for more ARM CPUs with Dedicated GPU

[@EmpressHsiao]

hmmm why fp1 instead of Am5? we don't get to change CPU then

[@bradhaines3142]

its laptop hardware, which is always part of the board. you're thinking desktop hardware

[@SassyPants34]

12:06 ok Owen Wilson... but dam I want that NAS.

[@mikkelgeorgsen]

Jake, squeeze them for info when we get a version with the new AMD AI pro max ultra super duper plus or whatever the name is, that would be amazing in that form factor ad you'd have the AI and GPS to play and work without needing the pcie

[@Z4KIUS]

1. why can't they use proper cooling? 2. it should've been zen5 already 3. strix halo where?

[@fahimanayet]

Hey Jake do a full review on this M5. How will it perform on windows running inside a proxmox lxc for gaming 🫨. Then it will be a perfect homelab / nas / vps / media server / a casual gaming device 😅😍

[@shawalmbalire]

I was planning on getting an M4 mini base due to price per cpu core but I’m second guessing

[@ryanseipp6944]

Actually so pumped for this. Just got an MS-01, but since it came out I've been wanting an AMD version. If the price is right, definitely picking one up

[@MegaCynar]

Needs the power button on the button

[@eekbah]

I heard you like buttons dog, so I put a button on your button.

[@tonybaroneee]

Bottom* :)

[@RaukGorth]

Including hardware AV1 encoder is a good idea for a NAS

[@yongzhenkit6622]

Still getting the mac mini.

[@Cobble123]

No Displayport?

[@MindstabThrull]

I wonder if Wendel from Level1Techs has seen the NAS yet.

[@kaushalsuvarna5156]

Did you hear about the SODIMM slots 😮 They were so dimm