The Mad Wisdom of American McGee's ALICE

This time we're going all the way back to 2000, to one of the most pleasantly nauseating games I've ever played.
Also, welcome, this is the beginning of my regular upload arc.

[@woohoo2491]

kzbin.info/www/bejne/kIKtpaKfr7udnK8 Alice: Toys of Madness is an upcoming GZDoom mod that brings this game to an open source, highly moddable engine. If you have any artistic or programming abilities at all, please contribute.

[@kiitzuna]

so sad that asylum got denied by ea, this series has so much charm

[@sonder1028]

Literally! I would have loved to see asylum

[@klaus.sfc01official30]

Honestly i am suprised that EA DIDN'T choose to milk a franchise. though sad out of all of them it had to be this one

[@KickAssCowgirl27]

Hopefully this series will pull a Psychonauts and create a fan supported follow up, even if it's quite a few years after the last game!

[@tibcsikid5775]

This only shows the utter incompetence of the current EA as Alice:Asylum at this point is literally a complete game. The only thing remaining is the coding and modelling. McGee already saved them a lot of time and money but no... EA knows better. So better that they know how all gamers want multiplayer only games with "surprise mechanics" that costs a lot of money. This whole situation is literally a god awful joke...

[@VitZ9]

​​​@@tibcsikid5775 While I agree with your overall sentiment, calling Asylum a "complete game" is hilarious. All it has is a "design bible", a very detailed overview of what the game is going to be, its intended goals and overall direction. That's enough for us fans, but to the executives at EA, it's just a very strong pitch presentation. I mean you even say yourself that _"the only thing remaining is the coding and the modelling"_ , so basically the majority of the game. 😆 Plus animation, sound design and music, textures, model collision detection, etc etc. Don't get me wrong, I also dislike EA for not continuing the series, and I hope they change their minds. But, I can understand why they would say no. They took a risk twice already, and both games under performed sales projections, mostly due to minimal marketing for Madness Returns. And as much as I love the first two games personally, I admit the interest and fanbase for these games is disappointingly low. Then there is American McGee and his "studio" of 15 people. No way they are capable of a project this size in a reasonable time frame, not without EA giving him staff via another development team. Also Madness Returns development wasn't exactly smooth. It was extremely behind schedule, and when EA saw the lack of progress, they delayed the release and stepped in to rush the game to completion to meet the revised release date. It's why the game feels so padded with bullet sponge enemies, and lacks boss fights that were clearly set up in the chapter before hand, like March Hare and Dormouse. Unfortunately the future of the franchise exists in the legal purgatory of McGee can't do anything without EA, and EA can't do anything without McGee. EA doesn't want to give him the money, and McGee can't crowd fund it. All that considered, plus the fact it's been nearly 15 years since the last game, I've come to accept there will probably never be a third game. I hope EA changes their minds, but I understand not being in a rush to give McGee $10 million again any time soon.

[@aslandus]

My read of the characters coming back to life is pretty much that they're all constructs of Alice's mind, so their deaths were never literal deaths to begin with. They were and are still parts of Alice, so they can't truly die as long as Alice still lives... But because of her trauma, the image of her failing to save the people she loves has become something of a fixation for poor Alice, which manifests in Wonderland with all of her friends and allies getting violently killed with her being unable to prevent it. Once she's confronted the trauma of her family's deaths, she's also driven back that fixation, so her friends can go back to being her friends rather than being emblems of her guilt over her perceived failure.

[@martonszentkiralyi2251]

Ea is pure evil for denying the world from a cult classic with not only cancelling Alice asylum but still clinging to their rights. I remember quite recently they made a sale bundle and sold Madness returns together with Lost in random which is errily similar to the alice games, THEY KNOW there are people out there screaming JUST TAKE MY MONEY AND MAKE ALICE ASYLUM! And milk their desperation. I’m sure one day they will make a make a low effort version of it, they got an amazing design bible they can butcher, fans to milk, to make cry, again

[@BlackSailPass_GuitarCovers]

37:10 "When she's this deep in her psyche, reason may not necessarily save her." This is a great insight. I feel like you've understood the themes of the game in quite a deep way; although it's 'just' a video game, it was obviously carefully crafted to explore the process of dealing with trauma.

[@BlackSailPass_GuitarCovers]

P.S. 22:20 I feel like the Hatter and his minions are the embodiment of authority, specifically the authorities of the asylum. In Alice's mind, their roles are to poison and torture those they are tasked with caring for, ultimately transforming them into braindead 'automatons'. This is Alice's fate too, should she fail to escape. I was reminded of the Pink Floyd video for 'Another Brick in the Wall (part two)' - innocent young people being fed into a machine that converts them into something subhuman. Alice was categorically let down by authority figures throughout her life, so it's natural that she would feel antipathy and suspicion towards their motives. Sorry for the influx of comments, I love this game and this is one of the best analyses of it that I've seen!

[@sonder1028]

You can comment as much as you like! And dang, that’s a good point, I hadn’t thought of that

[@zoes3661]

This game and Alice Madness Returns are some of my all time favorite games and I’m so glad more ppl are talking ab them! Essays and analyses for them are very rare 😭 this is amazing and deserves sm more attention!!!!!

[@sonder1028]

Aw thank you so much! :D

[@matthewwisdom9933]

@@sonder1028 even though that I'm kind of surprised late I wanting this video of yours because I've been watching the other ones but like me and my sister want to thank you for making this video

[@matthewwisdom9933]

@@sonder1028 you deserve fantastic job making this game and you know like with the voice actors and with Alice having brown hair instead of blond hair and she maybe when slipstick like is hard to tell because she usually wears red bright red lipstick finally you did it beautiful amazing job making the game

[@matthewwisdom9933]

@@sonder1028 thank you again for making it you did a good job

[@matthewwisdom9933]

@@sonder1028 Alice older sister exist in this game you made

[@Mustlord_Guitar_Ambient]

The first 'Alice' game is a masterpiece - it's one of the few games I would give a 10/10. Although I'm sad that 'Alice: Asylum' will never see the light of day, I know that it would never capture what made the first one so special. Basically, a game like 'American McGee's Alice' wouldn't get made now. It was a product of its time, with popular culture, the people involved, and the 2000s technical capabilities / limitations combining to make it what it was.

[@NebLleb]

Agreed. Though I wouldn't mind seeing a rerelease on GOG.

[@Mustlord_Guitar_Ambient]

@@NebLleb Good call, Agent Denton.

[@chellastation]

19:35. Never though there would be a dance for the Hatter's domain, yet here we are 💃🕺👯🎩😵‍💫

[@starstrudel8417]

I'm so comforted by your videos!! I love your vibe and humor, I'm so on board. *dances wildly to the most fire track of 2000*

[@sonder1028]

Haha I’m so glad you like them! ☺️

[@Mandlbrot]

"Mr. Dumpty, I didnt know you were a sinner," made me lose my shit, 😂

[@guammy9973]

Man this brings me back. I haven't played this game since early highschool and i remember the mere idea of a dark, twisted, and violent Alice in Wonderland game sounding amazing...and it was in fact amazing. Looking forward to your video on the sequel :P

[@sonder1028]

Thank u! Looking forward to making it ;)

[@ankoured]

I discovered your channel a few days ago with this video, and I've since started to watch your videos on Every Devil Came Through Here Game. I really like what you do, and I'm glad to have discovered your channel!

[@sonder1028]

Aww thank you so much! I’m so glad you like them

[@VergilHiltsLT]

This game is pure madness. I still remember playing it for the first time in 2000 with my dad, I was 4 back then. Probably too young for an experience like this, the music sends chills down my spine. It's some of the best music/video game music ever produced. Dad really liked the crazy jingles in the game (Skool Daze in particular).

[@kosmosfan01]

I remembered getting the PC version of this game from my science teacher in high school years ago. I ended up getting a program to map a controller since I was more of a console player but really enjoyed the experience. I ended up getting the discounted bundle on the PS3 which includes this, Madness Returns, and the DLC dresses. Really loved them, especially Madness Returns for all the improvements made to things like the floaty jumping from the original.

[@laurenmellott9412]

Please always feel proud of your KZbin, your video quality is superb. The amount of detail is immaculate and the length of these videos is satisfying asf

[@sonder1028]

Thank you so much! :D

[@clarityvee]

This was an amazing analysis. I agree with you/your sixteen year old self. I find a lot of Alice media to be edgy and confusing to set it apart from the Disney film, and to have creepy world with a cute child. But the entire point of Alice to me is that she’s a child going through adolescence, and her constant confusion over her changing body and the world overwhelms her, because she never seems to change “correctly” or do things right the first time. She has to learn from her mistakes, but the adult world is something she doesn’t understand as a child. I think McGee’s take about mental health and trauma against the real world is just a grittier take on this idea, but it’s ultimately still the same themes of the original story. Your analysis really showcases that. Glad to hear people still talking about it today!

[@Godless_Heathen]

Speaking of atmosphere, this game was made with an old 3D sound feature known as EAX, there's an option in the settings where you can enable and disable it but by default its greyed out I believe. You'd have to look into editing some lines in your PC's registry relative to the system's audio and it basically allows your PC to be able to recreate the 3D effects and it's so worth it. The atmosphere, music, and gameplay ambience becomes immaculate as the original sound programmer had intended it to. Chris Vrenna from Nine Inch Nails developed the music and some 3D sound mixing for the game.

[@solarvoid777]

I discovered this game when i was roughly 9 years old. It was one of the only video games my edgy metalhead dad played, along with guitar hero. I used to sit next to him and watch him play. It was one of the few things we bonded over, as we had a tense relationship. When the trailer for the 2nd game came out, i was obsessed. I watched it over and over, speculating with my dad about what it could possibly be about. We went to three different game stores on my 11th birthday to ensure i got a copy as a present. Keeping up with asylum's patreon updates was still one of the few things my dad and i bonded over, until it was canned recently. These games are so very special to me.

[@HarlanDaleAbsher]

I played this game all the way back when it was a demo in 2000 and I was only 10 years old, I don't think my mom even knew I was playing it and I probably shouldn't have been. I actually didn't get to play the full game until I was in my 20s and it was a DLC for the Xbox 360 version of the sequel.

[@yetiatlarge555]

The true nature of a coffin cake is sliced chocolatier happyness

[@RealNoNikName]

Okay that most fire song of 2000 comment and skit won me over. I’m subbing

[@sonder1028]

:D

[@judas_christ01]

Exactly the correct sort of dancing that fits the music. I approve.

[@very_nervous133]

19:40 finally a correct representation of my feelings about this track. I do this particular dance every time I listen to Funhouse too

[@very_nervous133]

Thank you for this wonderful analysis of the game!

[@sonder1028]

Thank you for watching! :)

[@0-Nada-0]

Found your channel through this video - god this was amazing! Everything from the actual commentary, to your analysis and perspective is so high quality! I can't wait to see what more you do.

[@sonder1028]

Thank you so much 🥰 I hope you like what comes next

[@elvy8429]

got randomly recommended this and I rlly liked it!! feel like I'm investing early in your channel lmao

[@sonder1028]

Aww thank you! :)

[@tobiyoarcangel]

There are a ton of interesting details about the game and it's creation. American McGee had a really messed up childhood. Like, really, it's...just check it on the Alice wiki it's something hard to believe. The game (or at least the copy that I uh...*purchased*, no idea if the one I had during my childhood years which was also uh...*purchased*) comes with a file called "ThankYou.txt", where he pretty much thanks everyone involved in the game. Also, iirc, on several interviews and such he stated he wasn't happy with the name being called "American McGee's Alice", since he didn't feel like attaching the IP to his name was fair for everyone else, but ended up settling with it due to his name carrying weight due to his involvement on Doom. The music, composed by Chris Vrenna from Tweaker and NIN, had on the vocal choruses the voice of Jessicka Addams from Jack Off Jill (amazing band). Vrenna, or well, Tweaker, released some VERY RARE remixes of the Alice soundtrack. Roger Jackson (the voice of Ghostface in the phone scenes from Scream) voiced both the Jabberwock, and the Cheshire Cat in both games, while Susie Brann (who has very little entries on imdb) voiced Alice (or at least her non vofx stuff) in both games (kind of a miracle they got her for AMR). I'm almost 99% sure she also voiced Lizzie and their mother in AMR...and the Red Queen's voice in AMA kinda sounds like Susie but I could be wrong. She did come back for the 2 Otherlands shorts. There are several unused voice files from both Alice and the Cheshire Cat (iirc some of Alice's are actually alternative takes, hidden in the German and Spanish dubs of the game), and while I don't remember a lot of the Cat's unused ones...I know that most of his files play if you manually summon him to give you advice (I think the default key was C).

[@Mandlbrot]

Also, dude, you have nailed the narration voice for the start of the video!!

[@sonder1028]

Aww thank you!! :)

[@tahvohck]

Only just found your channel - watched your two latest videos and you just got a new sub. Love what you're doing.

[@ZombieOwl12]

these games are literally so good, I'm so UPSET that EA is just gonna sit on the IP and not do anything with it. Would love to see you do a video on madness returns

[@sonder1028]

Ask and ye shall receive ;)

[@suburbantimewaster9620]

The game was awesome! What a shame that it didn't get the recognition it deserved.

[@TABandiTA]

Wow, really informative video! I'm gonna find and read the book next. Also You deserve much more subscribes for this quality content.

[@sonder1028]

Thank you so much! I’m glad you found it interesting

[@jblask2]

Forgot how much I loved this twisted game (and that music wow) So much personality and vision despite the limitations of the time.

[@DefyReality-ll2cg]

I love this game and the sequel so much, this series is one of my all time favorites!

[@judas_christ01]

That final battle reminds me of the final battle in Kirby's Dreamland 3

[@NebLleb]

American McGee's Alice, to me, was basically a bridge between eras of PC Action gaming: The clever level design and exhilarating gameplay of the late 1990s bridged with the darker storytelling and introspection of the early-mid 2000s. It has all the cool level gimmicks you'd expect from American McGee who designed Id levels like "Dead Simple" (Doom II) and "Ziggurat Vertigo" (Quake, ironically also my favourite map from that game), but comes with a huge amount of storytelling baggage and emotion. Though I played it once, I genuinely wanted to help Alice Liddell mend her broken sanity and save her Wonderland in the process, as the game deals with her issues and character in a thoughtful, mature way that still holds up even today and help pave the way for other story-driven games in the western side of the industry to become successful. Max Payne being a success? F.E.A.R being a success? The Suffering being a success? 3D Realms' Prey being a success? Alice's cult status proved that PC action games could handle more thoughtful subjects and be popular. I don't even think it NEEDS a new sequel because it's so good.

[@BloodmoonKingdom]

Grew up playing this on my parents windows xp when i was a child. Still have that disk and play it once a year. Alice is one of my top favorite games of all time.

[@Temenist]

Just found your channel by total accident while i was doing some college stuff, and wanted to say that i really liked your content i hope that you continue uploading more and more unique stuff :) (I also really like the Devil Came Through Here games so it was a insta-sub XD)

[@sonder1028]

Aww thank you!! 🥰

[@John190assman]

Sick dance moves. Loved the silly smile at the end.

[@theonewithoutabrain5793]

i've been a fan of this game (and the sequel) for 10 years. and only now i learn about the existence of a manual?? thank u so much for sharing this info (and for a great video)!

[@sonder1028]

You’re very welcome, thank so much for watching! 🥰

[@safirasart]

I never got around playing this game nd I'm really glad for your video going into it a little.

[@CReeseMLP_YT]

When I Saw the Film Of Alice in wonderland I Was Hyped and Excited all The Way Through!!!!

[@janjuzl3192]

I LOVE THIS GAME AND THE STORY but on that cat i think its just alices subconscious bc he always apear from nowhere give clue in riddles and then hes gone again

[@zzzdude4273]

What a treat today came across this video in my recommendation, it’s about American Mcgee’s video game Alice, it is a video game review over it, coffin cake is entertaining while also dropping some knowledge between the video game AND books, but the best part of this review is easily 19:27-19:47. I knew I wasn’t the only one who enjoyed the twisted funhouse music in hatter’s domain. I remember a long time ago as a kid I would go over to my neighbors house and watch my friend’s older brother play the game. (This was back between the mid and late 2000s) I got the chance to play it on my Xbox one after finding out it was included in madness returns as DLC. I even got the entire soundtrack downloaded on my Spotify to listen every so often. I’ll consider this video as an early birthday gift so I’m more than happy to like and become a sub to the channel. I almost forgot to mention love the vibe and your outfit keep up the amazing work! :)

[@sonder1028]

That track goes HARD haha, and thank you! Also happy birthday!

[@annamarie5192]

I am an instant subscriber wow I love ur personality!!!!

[@annamarie5192]

+++ bonus for Alice video 🖤🖤🖤

[@sonder1028]

Aww thank you! 🥰

[@annamarie5192]

@@sonder1028of course!! You’re amazing :D

[@deepstothepeeps]

To me, Alice is emblematic of a time before rampant corporate greed had wormed its way into video game executives across the industry. I think a huge part of that is due to the timeframe in which it was released. Back in 2000, the internet was still relatively new and high speed connections, especially in homes, weren't nearly as prevalent as they are today. As such, games could be published without a mandatory multiplayer component and the word microtransaction hadn't been invented yet. Fast forward a handful of years and by the time you get to Madness Returns, microtransactions are commonplace. I remember buying the DLC dresses in Madness Returns not to use them, but to show EA that there is a demand for Alice as an IP. If only they had listened...

[@TheHalloweenSpirit]

Still one of my favorite games ever ❤️

[@Mandlbrot]

Loved the video!!

[@sonder1028]

Glad you liked it!!

[@DiscoTimelordASD]

SPOILER!!!!! The Cheshire Cats death was freaking traumatic, but seeing him come back at the end was worth it.

[@mikhailkrauser9255]

Stumbled on this randomly, contents actually good! Take a sub. And keep it up, not sure why the hell you only have 370 subs? But you showed up in the algorythm so you might get a bump.

[@sonder1028]

Thank you so much! :)

[@mikhailkrauser9255]

@@sonder1028 Shouted out your channel on the socials, might have helped with a small bump in views! Keep goin!

[@judas_christ01]

Games involving misery are definitely my thing.

[@cloverlake2599]

we've all been in a gnomes rabbit hole, happens to everyone really

[@alyssinwilliams4570]

Nonono... you're not pirating games, you're acquiring a demo to see if you like it enough to purchase! 🤫🤐👍

[@sonder1028]

Hahaha exactlyyy!

[@lotic7542]

why don't you have more Subscribers? this was such a good game review

[@sonder1028]

Thank you! 🥰

[@Zombiezay]

How did I NEVER know there was a game that came before madness returns !! Omg

[@aureliusandthespiral]

I love the soundtrack to the game

[@Mandlbrot]

I do remember when you were 16! That was a good video!:D

[@sonder1028]

Haha I have so much shaaame!

[@sonder1028]

thank u tho lol

[@Mandlbrot]

@@sonder1028 Noooooooo!!! All those different Alice games were great!!

[@SnowRemnant]

Shootout to all the niche youtubers who talk for almost an hour about American McGee's Alice. Gotta be one of my favorite genders.

[@Cheesecake_666]

I love your energy, love to see you cover other gothic flavoured games, bet you'd like the ps 2 game Primal.

[@sonder1028]

Ooh I’ve never heard of primal!

[@Cheesecake_666]

@@sonder1028 magical 90s goth girl travels magic realms with her pet Gargole, astral projects into dark worlds, befriends butterfly goddess of Life, fights tribal demons and victorian vampires.

[@Cheesecake_666]

Also it's soundtrack is the embodiment of 200s metal and also the game appears to be very influenced by Buffy.

[@sonder1028]

Not gonna lie, that does sound fuckin awesome

[@blacklight2488]

Hahahahahaha it's okay American Mcgee approves of pirating even if he can't say so himself. Pirate responsibly.

[@OldManShane]

American McGee did some great work on this. I was also pretty shocked when I found out it wasn't a pseudonym. Anyways, I liked and subscribed, and here's a comment to you to help feed the algorithm. Do you have any sort of plans for your channel; consistent topics or the like?

[@sonder1028]

Thanks for the support! And yep, I’ve got plans for basically the rest of the year. I’ll mostly be talking about indies, with similar dark/philosophical slants. They’ll probably be a bit more obscure than what I’ve talked about previously, but I hope you like ‘em!

[@OldManShane]

@@sonder1028 That is exactly my cup of tea. Looking forward to it!

[@snowyfrosty312]

Is it just me or Goth love these style

[@NathanaNobody]

you and snorkyshow are mad underrated lol

[@sonder1028]

Haha thank you! :D

[@NathanaNobody]

@@sonder1028 hope your channel blows up

[@RamChop451]

Dunno if you know but the sequel on steam actually comes with a copy of the original. You just have to do some work around to unlock it in the files

[@sonder1028]

That may have been my way of accessing it ;)

[@BlackSailPass_GuitarCovers]

Here's some musical trivia for you. The bass theme on the 'Pool of Tears' level (from 8:45) is the final boss theme, but in half time.

[@sonder1028]

No way! Omg I hear it now

[@BlackSailPass_GuitarCovers]

@@sonder1028 This soundtrack is hard! Do you have a favourite track?

[@sonder1028]

I actually do love pool of tears, I find it melancholic in a very unique way for the soundtrack. I also like I’m Not Edible (though I don’t know why it’s called that) and, of course, the Funhouse lol

[@nadya4681]

whats the name of that great song??? 🖤🖤

[@sonder1028]

It's the track called "The Funhouse". Certified banger.

[@justjay2955]

And in the ps3 version of madness returns has the prequel in it

[@judas_christ01]

Reminds me of the spiders in Lisa The First. Annoying as fuck.

[@cherry2261]

i think my girlfriend saw you at a taco bell once

[@sonder1028]

If I’m gonna be spotted anywhere, Taco Bell makes sense I guess 😂

[@ZaltnD]

So what next alice madness american mcgee?

[@sonder1028]

Yes indeed!