The Madness of Blocker Fetishisation - a Non GTO Hand Breakdown

[@wnocknz]

Partly I think this is a linguistic problem. The word 'Blocker' is somewhat ill-chosen nomenclature. It's most apt when speaking about nut blockers i.e. nut flush blocker, since you literally block the nuts. But in many applications, 'blocker' is a heuristic for 'combination reducer', but that both sounds clunky and is obscure in meaning. Which is why it's fair for you to say that blockers are not always very meaningful, since oftentimes the combos they reduce are not significant enough to sway a decision. If you think to yourself "I have a blocker here" with respect to their bluffs, you might be guilty of taking the heuristic you're using too literally. If you said instead "I have a combination reducer here" with respect to their bluffs, it might encourage you to think more critically about what percentage of combos you're reducing and how important that is. Therefore, simply relying on blockers is lazy thinking. You're allowing a linguistic shortcut to permit you to take a mathematical shortcut, namely counting combos and recalculating pot odds. And that's understandable, counting combos is hard to do! Especially in game. And even more so in fishy games, where ranges are wide. How did you get good at counting combos Charlie?

[@alphabett66]

Work on your pilpul rabbi.

[@nab0305]

only way to get good at counting combos is to do it off the table for particular spots. the more you do it for hypothetical hands the easier it will be to do on the fly.

[@mrtmantohead]

When Andy has the Qd here, he blocks his opponent from beating him at showdown with his A-high bluffs ;) .

[@Zoggyboyzimmy]

I think its worth noting that blockers become more important as our opponents range becomes more defined. For example when we check jam or donk overbet bluff 1.5x pot on a flush completing river, having the Ax flush blocker vs EP is going to be mega important as we suddenly block half of his value. As a 30abi mtt reg, i actually tend to see people consistently calling with hands that block villains bluffs, and unless you have clear cut spots where you thinking population is way overbluffing, then these small differences in calling with bad blockers can make the difference between a thin call and a losing one (which is usually the case as nobody bluffs) - the same situation i feel in this video is that you assume the recreational is firing all of his bluffs on river for 1/2 pot with very little fold equity in a spot where population plays sticky when draws miss, in reality he is going to check back his A7s a bunch too.

[@dnn86]

Excellent breakdown, thoroughly enjoyed it. I usually find these types of videos a bit boring when it's just somebody telling me what Pio would do in every spot, so your style is refreshing. It's more like listening to a pal explaining things. I also appreciate the juicy little nuggets of personal insight regarding tells and such, because in addition to being a game of maths, odds and probability, poker is also a game of psychology. An aspect which is often overlooked - if not disregarded entirely - in modern analyses.

[@alex82446]

Blockers are not used on a simulation all that often with respect to flop and turn decisions. The reason is that you want to be in all successive branches with all kind of holdings. For example if the board comes 3s6djc maybe the solver decides that you have to cbet 50 % of the time. Then, you tend to bet with your value, but not always. With AA maybe you cbet 75% of the time, while if you have AK maybe you cbet 25% of the time (this is a guess, I am not running this simulation). In Holdem blockers are mostly used on river decisions, for instance if you have to call with marginal value or if you have to bluff. This makes sense because you do not have more decisions to be made, therefore "revealing" which kind of holdings you have is not relevant for future decisions. As stated by Warren, the nut blocker is probably the most important one (this is specially true in Pot Limit Omaha, where holding the nut flush blocker in bot flush draw board or flush boards is VERY relevant when deciding wether to bet or not).

[@Hildreth1101]

Love the video and point on Blockers, definitely really, really over emphasised on, to the point where people justify massively -ev plays due to 1 blocker, it's insanity.

[@tassv5909]

i see it at 100nl all the time. i 3x river overbet on A56J9 with A6 and they insta call with A8o straight blocker, as if i could not have all two pair combos, sets or 12 remaining 78o.

[@Adherento]

But this is giving you a window open to a new money in Poker, isn't it? I don't care I just look at the both sides and take the money 😎

[@toddmurphy390]

Think Charlie is explaining the difference between guys who make a living and and guys like me who struggle to not lose too much.

[@zeebot1]

such a great video. crazy how just having you break one hand down I feel like I learned more than in the last five study sessions combined. Thank you for the Poker content mate

[@zeebot1]

and funny how obvious it is once you hear it, it just makes sense.

[@irsute8833]

I love your angle on poker and how you stay creative all the time when you play.

[@wendellcook1764]

Part of the value of blockers is that they help to regulate your frequencies so that you aren`t calling, folding or raising too frequently.

[@nano_org]

Your point about being balanced only when you realize your opponents can figure out your imbalances was great!

[@Pyr0blast]

Very nice tip on the squeeze spot where we hold AA, using a random number generator to size big 50% and get cute 50%. Never crossed my mind before and I usually just decide taking the players into consideration.

[@camilotm]

Blockers and unblockers are super relevant if we are playing narrow ranges,because they block or unblock a bigger percentaje of combos.Also,we have to consider that the easy call on the river with AQ supposes that our enemy is bluffing us with 100% frecuency of combos,which against a recreational player may be the right play,but against a pro we would need need to think a bit more,in fact ,most missed fd on the river that have some showdown value are not usually bluffing "in general"

[@ike3723]

The problem with this blocker thing is a lot of players use it as an excuse to take the more passive option ‘if I had a diamond I would bluff’. Also a lot of the blockers thing is mainly about balancing your bluffs with value, there NO reason to do this unless you’re playing the best players in the world.

[@happpypeasant1597]

I 100% agree with you Charlie about "blockers". its very over used nowadays and is brought up every single time someone is explaining a hand LOL. its like the only theory they know. thats why youre the best when studying/learning poker from

[@Alex-Bunin]

Best video so far hands down. Loved the live tells part. MOAR.

[@biinja]

At 13:30 why do you say Andy doesn't have any 7s in his range? True Nick has the 7d but couldn't Andy feasibly have 97cc or 97hh that take this line, and 75 of the same suits as bluffs to name a couple?

[@ThisSideOfTheDoor]

I learning so much Charlie when I play irl with friends or others!

[@snake0911]

Anytime a player next to me mentions "blockers this" or "blockers that", I silently don't take them seriously. I think it's been misapplied. For example, if a player goes all in on a QJ10 76 board, and you hold KJ and make the call, claiming you block AK, you are misapplying the concept. Sure you have a K but are ONLY partially blocking AK as there are 16 combos of AK. So there are still 12 combos of AK. Furthermore, there are other combos that villain may go Allin on K9 suited, 98, sets, two pair. So you are really removing a tiny fraction of villains overall value range and if you put a lot of emphasizing on blockers, you will go broke. Also, not all blockers are created equal. The suited Ace blockers is very powerful on a flush board vs a straight blocker on a straight board. The Ace blocker 100% blocks your opponent from having the nuts, while the straight blockers only partly block it.

[@bradbozych2051]

Actually think I remember seeing something the vid didn’t catch before the river. The player to Nick’s right James said good luck and Nick said “thanks I’m gonna need it.” Not even sure if Andy caught that but seems to indicate a draw.

[@markbarlescu1853]

how does nick only have 8 value hands on the river? which hands? also on a side note, i got called an angler at a home game bc i asked a player if he would show if i folded. is that a fair statement? or WAS I angled into folding the best hand? as i was on the fence to calling, but after some players called me an angler, i just folded to save my image.

[@att12x]

button calling ranges + his action post flop narrow his river down alot.

[@markbanin]

For me, the timing tells are probably the biggest giveaway on this hand

[@DejaquezernDenaster]

Hey Charlie, do you think blockers are much more relevant in a preflop decision like rejamming the bb with a hand like K6s in a tournament?

[@adhominemsis-t.australisensis]

Is it a blocker fetishism or a matter of incomplete analysis of the effects of all blockers on bluff vs value combos? Q of D does remove some bluff combos, as you said yourself, where as the A of C removes 1 value combo. Taken in totality, shouldn't they inform one's decision on the river here?

[@TonyViper]

the A8 clubs blocked was really stupid :DD and i like blockers way more than Charlie

[@karlseastrand7678]

Good video. Were you really playing an $11 torny 2 weeks ago on PP under epiphany77? Seemed like a super small torny for you but it was your handle?

[@stevejung9259]

Is that discord invitation still valid? I can't access your Discord.

[@YourSoSeezy]

New to live poker, if being asked what is your chip stack, do you have to answer or can you remain silent? would be pretty awkward to not answer.

[@andrewadami3920]

I don't know. Technically, you don't have to answer (I think). Minimum effort would be to raise your hands to display your chips in full view, without obstruction. And if there are alot of large chips, perhaps put the largest chips in stack sizes that are easily countable, and small chips in stacks of 20. But technically, the opponent only deserves an estimate, not an exact count. The dealer will instruct you, if you need to go any further.

[@jwoah7753]

you just have to display your big chips, and not obscure chips behinds smaller chips. if you find your opponent is trying to fish for info by always buggin about your stack during an all in or something, say nothing, if your chips are viewable, then opponent can see. but even if chips displayed if you think opponent is literally just asking that question, which they certainly will, just answer with "about _____." or "like _____." if they are big stack, looking to take a flip, maybe especially keep it quiet or dont xD

[@samuraijack1371]

He has started to like the skinnier version of Jesse Pinkman

[@technofeeling2462]

I ignore people if they ask for my chips and I don't talk. I am just quit and don't move. If they want to know my chips the dealer can tell them (pretty normal in the casino I play)

[@robertleeson1614]

Yeah just depends how comfortable you are under pressure. If you feel anxious and a bit shaky it's probably best to not say anything. Ideally you should be able to stoically count out your stack without giving anything away. You'll see that a lot with high stakes players, they'll happily count it out or just know the stack size already and act calmly to a bit of interrogation.

[@s_murph7299]

If anything isn't Nick's shove bad because he has a very bad card/"blocker" in his hand in the A of diamonds. This stops Andy from having diamond draws that missed and he will now fold to a shove.

[@tassv5909]

thats true and much more relevant as there are lots of Ad as a % of Andys range. (compared to Qd only being 3 of like 20+combos)

[@jaybingham3711]

FYI...all live play is Non GTO. GTO applies to the entirety of play. You can't play GTO if your opponents aren't also playing optimal. And they must sustain that for all hands. There's no situation where you get to claim one particular hand was played GTO.

[@Mookiethedog]

Dude I could listen to you all day

[@DoingYerMum]

Cant nick have 66 here as well? Feel like thats a possible value hand that takes the same line

[@26bisket]

Using blockers is plus ev.. it’s easy to cherry pick hands where they fail

[@joshuasethhill3518]

This guy is like if Stu Unger had a lovechild with Madonna ...and Stu disowned him in the afterlife for the lack of balls in his "son".

[@hymnofashes]

the blockers only matter if your opponent is balanced and even then if he is balanced you're basically indifferent between call and fold, if he's not balanced the question is IS HE BLUFFING

[@plstrom]

i dont fully understand the 2k raise on the flop .. and than the couting thing would be correct if there wasnt garrett there shitting it all lol

[@naeco5778]

I still come across streamers who bring up blockers every hands, even in BvB spots where there are hundreds of combos lmao

[@guillermocantuvaldes9085]

Players could literally scream at the table Im bluffing and the GTO guys will fold cause of the ‘blocker effect’

[@MultiChaim]

oh yeah.. sweet call btw.. not as easy as you described Charly.. but i understand your thought process tottally .. still.. when you sit there live.. its not a slamdunk call imo... gotta give props to Andy Sacks with the Balls ))

[@fabianroberntz3545]

Really liked this one charlie! The 79 blocker talk is bs but having the ace of diamonds and bluffing seems very relevant due to Andys AQ and AK one diamond being nice flop bluffish raises and except AQ AK perhaps AJ of spades I feel like those two are the prime candidates to bluff out of the pot.

[@niemand262]

Poker fads will always appear mysteriously good to lots of copycat style players, once they get popular enough. 100,000 grinders playing that idea will mean some reach final tables and win. Others will believe those players found the secret sauce, but it's just atatistics. 100,000 monkeys deciding randomly would see some of them reach the final table by chance alone. Playing GTO does not mean their success is due to GTO. For all we know, the best GTO players are the ones who know the principles best but are awful at keeping their other intuitions quieted. I call this dispositional luck, when your intuitions just happen to be the optimal exploit. Anyways, just thought I'd share some thoughts.

[@ant-pk8bx]

I have to agree with your perspective here.

[@BoleDaPole]

Just ignore them when they ask how deep you are and eventually the dealer will count it.

[@novak9411]

Thank you, Charlie! =)

[@sc4332]

To be fair, at 2:50 where you talk about being max unbalanced, you are playing a table of fish. This is not a high level game.

[@yooyoo8637]

And he does have the 8 of clubs which means he does block ace 8 of clubs

[@niemand262]

Yet again we see that GTO players don't themselves understand GTO. A canonical game theory puzzle is called the tragedy of the commons. When one farmer grazes his sheep in the commons, life is fine. When they all do it, the commons grasses die off and we all lose. If you play gto, you don't make yourself less exploitable, you make yourself more exploitable to the people smart enough to know what you're doing. GTO is not magic. It's just one more level on the familiar, what does he think about what I think he thinks I think game. But, gamblers are superstitious people, and they love to feel like they've solved something beyond actual solving. It's not unlike grandma's lucky troll doll at the slots.

[@josephwalsh6281]

Nice call, also blocks Q8o :)

[@thefeatheredbutcher2806]

The king is back 👑

[@pumaye8584]

my favourite coach. good video bro

[@borisich88]

Hey Charlie, really awesome to see you getting back! You are the one who made the biggest difference to my game (after watching your Master Class) I failed to find Bankroll Challenge footage of this: kzbin.info/www/bejne/bIW2ipttnp6iepI (Sit'n Goes & MTTs), do you really have those on your website? Much love

[@jackungerer1702]

‘Blocker fetishisation’ is a bit of a straw man. Solvers only really take blockers into account when the evs of multiple actions run close. There are definitely people who pay way too much attention to blockers, and not overall range frequencies but it’s ridiculous to suggest that good pros do this

[@robertkoch7551]

Love from Germany for your analyze !!

[@jbaru1211]

You understand that even though you're a good player with highly successful results, there are GTO based players with significantly better results than you

[@BigDaddyGee85]

what is the added value to the topic of the video by your comment?

[@BigDaddyGee85]

@@GummingPlobe no, its ok to offend him about not beeing gto and there are more succesfull Gto players. But it doesnt make sense. If someone thinks GTO is the better way then go for it. He just teaches a different approach to poker, which fits him better and got him big money too...there is just no substance in the statement ,, there are more sucessfull Top GTO- Players", when charly probably makes more money than most of the mediocre GTO- Players...

[@BigDaddyGee85]

@@GummingPlobe thats too general. he just see many problems that come with the gto-narrowed approach. The problem is, if you play against people like charly and they exploit you as a ,,weak gto-player", they often know how you think and in which spots you tend to pay off or over fold. So my point is, if you dont play Gto close to perfect, it can harm you against really good players.

[@danielcharlton5159]

Souki is my boy

[@南港柯瑞]

God so~~ love to see this series analysis videos

[@tobyc8905]

Actually some of the best content

[@willrodliffe158]

Great content, loving these reviews

[@mikesymes517]

He called because he blocks ace 8 of clubs

[@noelmodarres87]

Philippe Souki gets chick. Trust me I've seen it with my own eyes!

[@linsunming]

pls stop randomly right clicking…..the pop up menu looks annoying…..

[@TedsonJones]

Elky’s looking old these days

[@MultiChaim]

i cant agree more... they just have something to talk about and try to sound sofisticated and intellegent... personally the most time i use "blockers" is in plo, where there are really effective... like the naked A nutflushblocker.. or straight blockers etc. .... its not that you can tottally neglect it in nlh... but as you said... most players are just taking it waaaay waaaay to far.. anyways... thats why poker will always be profitable, and really never tottally solved, as some ppl claime it is solved... you cant solve the psychology of millions of people... or just go and create a site where you only can play bots... hahahaha... god bless Charly, wish you nothing but the best, your a great human ;) make some babys already maaaaan... the world needs more little Charly brains spreading around .. hahahaha )))) peace ;)

[@ericxu7155]

nice vid

[@Liththium]

Yo

[@Frik0z]

Yo anyone here like fishsticks?

[@Yessirdo]

Blockkkkkkkkkkkkk

[@ht999cc4]

.存10.0包赔100 存1000包赔500

[@RaulGroom]

This is hilariously bad strategy

[@charliegarrett5993]

Cool video Charlie. Really interesting to hear about the live tell stuff. And also cool to hear someone at your level being able to succeed with a deliberately non-gto approach. Your style is the style that got people interested in poker! You're like fucking James Bond in Casino Royale haha.

[@Liththium]

Yo