How Charlie Carrel Exploits GTO Players

[@superpasi7315]

The answer is he doesn't

[@dalysean86]

Agreed. Calling that river with anything but Ak is insanity. Even as an exploitative player he needs to try to merge ranges (bluff catch the bluff catcher) and having the highest high card would be the bottom of that range along with any and all pairs that arent counterfeit. Calling with Q high loses to air bluff of ace or king. This is why gto is still king, as to try to exploit gto risks your stack unnecessarily

[@trainerred7454]

@@dalysean86 K or A high wouldn't shove that river in position.

[@vsantet42]

He doesn’t, furthermore he is so easy to exploit (slowplaying more on the flop, min raising on the turn, etc.)

[@andysilvy23]

Patrick Antonius read him like a book when they played and made Charlie look like a fool now he is a true exploitative player

[@newstandardaccount]

Interesting video - at the risk of stating the obvious, Charlie *isn't* exploiting GTO players. He's exploiting players because they aren't playing GTO. By definition, GTO players cannot be exploited (though of course in practice no player can truly follow a strategy so complex).

[@estarshono]

The irony is that Charlie doesn't play based on idea "fuck GTO" - he actually studied gto play very well and found a way to exploit the players those somehow understands it not on the same level

[@ticenits1926]

he's not really exploiting them though, he's just randomly clicking buttons to CoNfUsE ThEm, which is basically just exploiting himself. Yes he's going to get players to overfold and overcall sometimes by just spastically betting 5x pot on the flop or 10x pot on the river, but because his opponent is playing GTO charlie doesnt really know what he ever has, he's just guessing and hoping for the best. "He cant call this bet without ace high or the nuts, so lets just hope he has neither!"

[@frankboy619]

@@ticenits1926not at all he is controlling what gto situation they are in making folding the profitable gto play for the opponent

[@Ac3p3rgAA]

it`s mostly players who say that they "play gto" that actually have no clue what gto means

[@williamdavis2505]

Exactly! GTO is the baseline by which exploitable is defined. Only departures from GTO are exploitable.

[@jackbrady9738]

This video is, as far as a single man video edited production on $0 budget goes: A masterpiece

[@mikepostleisinnocent2861]

The main question to me is do regs fold all of their T9o/T8o on the flop and what does the opponent do with 3X no flush draw on the turn. The solver calls some Tc9x/JT hands and floats T2hh on the flop and if he overfolds a little or puts those types of hands in the flop raising range then he’ll have a lot less Tx value on the river. In addition, the solver pure folds 3X no FD on the turn so if he’s sometimes calling that then he’ll have more bluffs on the river.

[@PokerGiraffe]

I think those are fair points-only thing I would add is that if people are calling with naked 3x on the turn, then bluffing for 2x pot becomes terrible.

[@loveswedishgrills9840]

I remember watching this guy doing a BR challenge and he couldn't even beat NL5 and NL10 on stars. He stacked off plenty of times doing similar calls, trying the soulreads, but is wrong like 90% of the time.Sure, it looks good when he nails it, but the rest of the time he just looks like a huge fish to me.

[@MichaelMuryn]

Adaptation. I have not looked what you refer to. But, I know some players who are very good at cash or tourney to exploit tough spots. They will switch style at the right time (so get the fold with air but then get the call with nuts or near). Now, if you are at a 5-10NL table (even way higher)... and you are on a table or vs players that play a certains style, or who may even be calling station (they won't fold top pair weak kicker ever) and you don't consider this in your strategy (which maybe he has done under-estimating his opponent or over-believing in his power to get fold (or do miracle calls), like thinking he will get the same fold from a different kind of opponents he is used to get fold from). Then he might look like a fish/donk like you say! One player I had in mind, when he play lower stake, he was either not taking it seriously enough, etc. He was actually not playing the on the same poker level he plays when he takes the game more seriously. Another player I have in mind, when he is let's say too excited, he will too often call with 2nd or 3rd pair all in... to try to bluff catch. He can be a very good players, but not always the most stable. Now you can do that from time to time, at the right time, as part of your strategy. But if your kind of play become WAY TOO OBVIOUS and you continue to do it (instead of switching when you detect other detected you, like in my previous paragraph example)... don't be surprised your movie-like play won't work 10 times over a short period of time.

[@GThOe]

You have a gift for explaining complex ideas efficiently and in a way I can understand. Thank you for all your amazing content.

[@PokerGiraffe]

You're very welcome!

[@1LevelUpGuy]

Thank you for the breakdown and the thoughts! Very interesting. Have a question about this thought at 2:44 "SB is supposed to bet at low frequency (27%) on low paired board. If SB double barells often enough, it will soon become obvious that he is over C-betting. all he needs to do is showdown w Jx8c and GTO player will know what he is doing" Is this realistic? In what time frame / volume of hands are we thinking this is likely to happen? Over a few thousand hands, BvB spots, that actually go post flop, w low paired boards and get double barelled and to showdown with a combos @SB that "makes it clear" that SB is over-Cbetting? To me, it seems like something you'd have to be looking for it to see it, and even then it could be noise. Such spots are definitely not as clear/reliable information as are the preflop all ins 100bb deep, for e.g.

[@adean4146]

if I was him I would also play one way on stream and another off stream....

[@andersnielsen6044]

Charlie does not strike me as a guy who actually eats breakfast.

[@bot-ip1lu]

5'58 56 with a club is an excellent candidat to slowplay...not to mention we do run against strongers trips occasionnaly" I understand this for bad runout will slow down the action (like a club) and it's nice to not loose less with weak trips against strong trips If there is no bad runout,are we suppose to do against 3barrel no allin,should we raise allin our weak trip anyway? It's kind of a broad question let's say againts 1/2flop 3:4 turn 3/4 river no club for example

[@CristianGVB]

Frequencies are important, as you said the cbet in this video. Do you think villain's calling range composition is important too? I mean, is it a good cost/benefit, or its better to work just with frequencies. In this cenario for example, to the stab for BB would be much more relevant the Charlie's raise/fold frequencies, to the point that look at his calling composition would not worth it at all. I ask because I did a MDA with just using frequencies (river using composition of villain bets and raises of course), but wonder if it would be good to do with their calling river composition for example, for fishs maybe even more, since they are too imbalanced. Maybe even with overfold would be logical to value bet thin, because the range is so weak

[@PokerGiraffe]

Yes, composition is important too. A common example is when we are check calling the flop vs IP cbet. If IP is double barreling turn too often, that alone makes us want to overfold flop. But if the extra turn barrels are mostly coming from good hands, then that actually makes us want to float wider on the flop. We don't mind check folding our floats on the turn vs his good hands, and we also have an extremely profitable river probe after turn goes check check.

[@CristianGVB]

I see, I wonder if composition of villain that is calling is important (compared to frequencies of fold and raises). Maybe on river is my guess, but didnt come to a conclusion. Did one MDA based on frequencies, and analysint if is a good cost/benefit to do with calling range composition

[@bot-ip1lu]

If SB is not double barreling all his air ,do we need to raise some weak Ax or should we call all of them?

[@jppagetoo]

As you imply Charlie cannot exploit perfect GTO play. He can exploit the mistakes a GTO-ish player makes since they cannot play a perfect GTO strategy. Once we find what Charlie is doing he is open to being exploited himself. I like Charlie but he cannot beat perfect GTO by playing exloitively, he can only lose more.

[@On3Thought]

He cant exploit no one except low stake players.

[@beherapunya21]

​@@On3Thought200nl is low stakes for you?

[@benscott633]

Nobody can play perfect gto. Simply not possible. He's just exploiting the shortcuts that gto players take and to do so he needs an incredible understanding of gto himself.

[@UnderEstimated0Poker]

except no one plays perfect gto play

[@ETBrooD]

@@benscott633 By definition, GTO players cannot be exploited. If they take shortcuts that leave them exploitable, they're not GTO players.

[@johnd5619]

If I have 2 GTO bots that are similar in every way, playing the same gameplan vs each other except on one node, on the river one of the bots removes all bluffs. both bots have a set/locked strategy. which bot would win long-term?

[@PokerGiraffe]

If you ignore blockers then both bots would break even, but considering blocker effects the bot playing GTO would win. The best bluffs in any spot are typically +EV, and underbluffing bot is going to be missing all of them.

[@vecter]

@@PokerGiraffe wdym "if you ignore blockers"

[@bot-ip1lu]

this video is so good,thank you 6'20 "weak trip don"t want to isolate against strong trips" Not sure to understand perfectly this one. BB will call every trips( weak and strong) on this tun overbet right?So why "isolating against strong trips?" Do you mean if SB bweak trips et smaller on the turn then sometimes he can manage to not loose 100bb by XC the river or folding the river? Both XC and not XR or bet fold seems a miss value to me,but maybe i'm wrong and I want to understand Thanks in advance

[@bot-ip1lu]

Maybe I understand now:you mean if there are less bluffcatcher in BB's range,then he as more trips in proportion in his range. Consequently he has also more strong trips in his range.

[@PokerGiraffe]

That's right :)

[@dalysean86]

That q-high call is indefensible. Ak is the start of the call range there to bluff catch all air bluffs. Maybe as far down as AT. To his point calling there with any pair that isnt counterfeit isnt bad as he will catch semi bluffs there

[@marksimpson2321]

Isn't he actually doing sthg like playing closer to gto than those he's playing aginst? After all 2 barrelling on a paired board is sensible some percentage of time

[@PokerGiraffe]

Very possible!

[@bot-ip1lu]

what to do if SB adapt by 3betting bluff the flop knowing we did adapt to his high cbet 2ndbarrel overbet strategy by raising more bluff on the flop and calling more our goods hands?Aren't we exploitable as well? But you could say yeah if he knows,we will then stop overbetting turn a lot and we would stop raising too much on the flop and going to equlibrium. I just want to know what to if I get 3flop a lot in reaction. My guess is folding more bad Ahigh to cbet because we can't raise bluff too much anymore ?And also slowplay lessflop because he's 3b bluff too much.Then we can call more the 3bflop and SB bluff's will lose ev Love to get your toughts on that

[@Prometheus7272]

He doesn’t play a purely exploitative style, he plays a lot of GTO strategies.

[@supportGEM]

If we know that Charlie is overbluffing the turn to generate folds from Ahi, wouldn't it be more profitable to call our Ahi on the flop and then continue calling on the turn to gain EV from his bluffs (which is a large portion of his range if not his whole range using this size). On the turn the pot is larger and mistakes are magnified. Of course raising the flop with Ahi and Khi is also +EV vs Charlies' over cbetting, wouldn't it be even more +EV if we call and let him punt in a bigger pot on later street? P.S. I know it is complicated in a GTO world as GTO also consider things like equity denial and realization.

[@PokerGiraffe]

That’s a great point! If we knew Charlie had some huge imbalance on later streets (betting huge with bluffs, small with value) then the EV of calling flop skyrockets. But I still prefer raising flop because 1) It relies on less assumptions 2) We deny some equity against his bluffs

[@georgekouremenos9473]

what giraffe said but also on a basic lvl what ppl hate when they bet is getting raised when they are IP and getting called when they are OOP

[@PaperPlateParody]

This kind of reminds me of the Stu Ungar hand where he calls the river all-in with ten high.

[@PokerGiraffe]

Hahaha, funny to see you here. I loved your Matt Berkey parody!

[@blazeron12]

Thanks for a new video!

[@oneone_isme]

with just this hand,I think we could overfold flop with weak hands like air/2h and slowplay our strong hands,call with pair+ with bd and it will be profitable to increase flop bluff raise fre with blockers,anyway still very ambitious to call river shove with Qh, surprised me. btw nice video Giraffe!I like your video not only because the h-quality but also the way you speaking,the smooth n moderate pace n clear pronunciation are very comfortable

[@CristianGVB]

Could you give me your thoughts about 2 things? (Considering anonymous pool and none deception is needed) River scary in a board that has sizing down with value IP by theory for example. Lets say villain has call GTO vs pot and 5% overfold vs 50%. Exploitative we should bet always pot as value right? Same with Turn Barrel in a Flush card, If there is overcall or overfold vs This size, we can always overbet exploitative with 2p lets say vs overcall, or bluff vs overfold, even if max size is 75%. Thanks for the content

[@PokerGiraffe]

The answer to both questions is no. If you have a hand that is strong enough to bet pot, you actually lose EV when you bet 50% pot. So villain has to be overfolding by quite a bit to overcome this EV loss, and make you want to size down.

[@On3Thought]

Charlie has no data to prove his edge.

[@contemplationsobservings6591]

Except the millions of $ he has won. Other than that yeah, no data.

[@pierrearr]

​@@contemplationsobservings6591You think that money came from gto nerds? Lol.

[@Romans8-9]

@@contemplationsobservings6591 He's talking about cash not MTT.

[@dinglepants]

​@@pierrearr Yes. The largest and most plentiful fish in the sea.

[@Humanprototype-wh8qr]

@@pierrearrlol Wccop 10 k main? U never had even 10 k in ya pocket

[@Tom_Bee_]

I thought he made a living selling live tells and pseudo scientific spiritual twatwaffle.

[@mattsmith9968]

the answer is simple. He does not. That´s why he didn´t even wanna do that prob bet 4bb/100 at RNC 200. I would bet my whole networth against him

[@mikegoodwin5951]

He didnt want to prop bet because high stakes guys were going to join the pool to fuck up the challenge

[@robertleeson1614]

damn, you really willing to bet an entire 50 bucks?

[@mattsmith9968]

@@mikegoodwin5951 no it is not the reason, because high stakes guys would lose more EV playing nl200 rnc

[@mattsmith9968]

and after today´s patch at GG i would even take a loan to bet against him :D

[@TiltEV]

Poker is a cool game

[@PokerGiraffe]

Indeed!

[@Asim-p9f]

Charlie likes to paint a false image that he’s some poker god to feed his ego by hiding all his bad results and only showing the good. He’s ok at exploiting weak players like in MTTs 5 years ago and the fish tank of low stakes GG but has been losing at poker for the past 5 years Whenever he’s tried to play actual good players who’ve studied GTO he gets destroyed as you can see on tracking sites the graph is nearly as poor as his singing

[@2Obwishes]

which site? let me have look pls

[@PokerGiraffe]

Somehow I’m more interested in his singing…

[@susymay7831]

What is Charlie's online name?

[@Humanprototype-wh8qr]

He is still crushing mtt when he play them

[@marksimpson2321]

I suspect a lot of youtubers in an activity like poker are nowhere near as good as they are perceived to be at poker but the perception + sctick helps get subs = €££

[@santaclause3487]

Understanding gto means u exploit

[@PokerGiraffe]

Well said!

[@lorisdalcin23]

came on mate , you don t do breakfast

[@peterveckmen9314]

Not the dude making the video but for the solver nerds in the comments looking down on exploitative poker bro get off the horse you mofos ain't playing anywhere near "perfect gto" not to mention even computers can't do that otherwise ruse wouldn't have been able to beat the next best solver for 19bbs/100 hands

[@frankboy619]

I don’t think it’s a totally anti Gto it’s just reversed engineered you are making them make the right Gto play.

[@danielhaik326]

By definition you cant exploid a gto strategy

[@DerekDDuval]

Tip, don’t put stuff in text when you’re talking. People aren’t that smart.

[@pantan4636]

Amazing video!!

[@PokerGiraffe]

Thank you Pan!

[@Alexandertygreat]

LOLOL so yeah just flop trips?? Genius stuff, other wise just hand him all the monies til we broke. Or.... learn to play exploitive as well. How often do we flop trips?? Gto is great to learn and understand, makes playing against other gto that much easier. Like charlie seems to do well. He never has trips here, cause its hard to even make a pair. Bluff all air, play draws fast and call down with top of range. Gotta be most profitable in these spots

[@Zergosss]

yep, that's the correct answer; irl you don't have infinity time to wait for trips, or trips with better kicker

[@bobbychess5652]

Who is funding this kid throwing his money away?

[@LauratoLio-bq2vh]

Lol,Gto itself means playing a strategy that's unbeatable

[@andersnielsen6044]

And not winning.

[@notthatguy4703]

No human plays gto

[@cathdan]

Actually just play like a nit and value bet your strong hands vs gto

[@maxhong7223]

Love from Singapore bro

[@PokerGiraffe]

Thanks bro!

[@paumsr1662]

Very nice video

[@spacebomb9126]

Here's some real life tips for people looking to get serious about playing poker. If you need to use GTO wizard to play poker, just give up now and go back to your 9 to 5 job. This software will have you play like a wussy and folding too often and making plays that give you next to no return. Study the pro's "the older guy's" that have multiple championship level titles. Gamble, play loose, play tight, coin toss, be a degenerate, do it all. Lose 10's of thousands of dollars, you need to experience every level of bad beat and loss over and over and over... You need your guts to twist to near puking and your emotions to make you feel near suicidal at least a thousand times, minimum. Play live poker as often as possible. Avoid online poker, it will make you feel stupid and will take all of your money for sure. The more you lose, the more you learn not to make mistakes and pick better spots to play your hands out. Know your opponents play style, if possible. Lose, lose, and lose some more. Now you're ready to start playing some poker.

[@kaaristotelancien3005]

"FUCK GTO"😂

[@bmoresweetz7023]

Wtf is a GTO player ??🤷‍♂️

[@PokerGiraffe]

Haha who knows? Probably someone who tries to copy GTO

[@stu_gahtz1740]

He looks like he doesn’t even eat breakfast

[@IanBartleson]

Yeah, sure you do. Get a haircut..

[@mongingermain4911]

top !!

[@Alexandertygreat]

The problem with these solvers is you cant solve for stupid. Not that charlie is stupid, but 99% of players are. GTO is too rigid, if all one must do is over bet and it breaks the solver. These massive overbets are pure profit.

[@PokerGiraffe]

Not necessarily! EV is the ratio of risk vs reward-so even if you can get your opponent to fold a ton, it doesn’t mean anything if you have to risk twice the pot to do it. Against such a big turn bet, BB needs to fold hands as strong as Tx at some frequency. Otherwise Charlie’s bluffs become straight up -EV.

[@Alexandertygreat]

@@PokerGiraffe Agreed, i will say when i wrote my post i did not watch a single video on solvers and the new meta of NLHE. Your making great content. I played online and live professionally a decade + ago. I took so lessons with one of the best coaches of that era MDMA from Swe, he put 100% emphasis on purely polar play. These videos and how popular PLO has become has me very interested in poker again after losing the love for it. Thanks for making great content and taking the time to respond. Love how deep the math has come and how having q better understanding of GTO can improve exploitive play as well.. cheers

[@PokerGiraffe]

Yes, poker has come a long way in the last decade! If you’re looking to get into solvers, this video might help: kzbin.info/www/bejne/bn6we5ycrNOef6s

[@williamdavis2505]

Dumb title. GTO is by definition unexploitable. Learn some game theory.

[@Mrunlimted47]

Hahaha not how that works little buddy

[@williamdavis2505]

@@Mrunlimted47 condescending and wrong both - not your little buddy. Equilibrium strategies are by definition unexploitable.

[@Mrunlimted47]

@@williamdavis2505 lol Karen

[@williamdavis2505]

@@Mrunlimted47 troll

[@notthatguy4703]

@@williamdavis2505No human plays gto, meaning gto players are exploitable.