The Mammal that Ate Dinosaurs

An incredible fossil of a mammal hunting a dinosaur has been found, with the two animals fighting behind the backdrop of a volcano! Yes, it really was that dramatic!
Read more about it here: www.nature.com...

[@marvinbange1216]

Psittacosaurus really delivering some really incredible fossils. First that quills and color thing and now this

[@beastmaster0934]

Don’t forget the fossil with a perfectly preserved belly button and cloaca.

[@jsjung2023]

@@beastmaster0934 You know the funny thing is that all the colour, quills, belly button and cloaca detail was found on one specimen (that individual is also known to have been a 6~7 year old subadult)

[@varicosevaynes]

This is genuinely ground-breaking. I always assumed the only mammals around the time of dinosaurs were extremely frail and tiny and essentially eaten by or just ignored entirely by other life forms, but this changes that notion big time

[@zddxddyddw]

There were many relatively big (at least compared to mice) mammals during the Mesozoic. Another interesting case is that of the beaver-like Castorocauda and Kayentatherium.

[@zombiedad]

This fossil really does help create a more vibrant picture of the world then.

[@petrfedor1851]

The place of mammals in mesozoic enviroments as underdogs living in shadows of dinosaurs always strucked me as odd considering most living species would fit that description but no one think about weassels or small cats as living in shadow of big mammals.

[@spongebombepicpants1073]

kzbin.info/www/bejne/pWrbeHevf813itE

[@Sawrattan]

Also, even in today's mammal world there are large reptiles which certainly don't live in the shadow of mammals. Fun to think there were some mammals which were to dinosaurs what modern pythons and komodos are to modern mammals.

[@fernbedek6302]

Considering how much effort has gone into trying to figure out where all the small carnivorous dinosaurs are, I do have to wonder if the truth isn’t that mammals and terrestrial crocodilians weren’t a more prominent slice of the ecosystem than we tend to think.

[@highfive7689]

Considering that a lot of dinosarian species ranged about the size of a turkey to a cow, Mammals the size of badgers with lots fur and loose skin folds could make it as hunters more importantly scavengers.

[@sampagano205]

Whats with ceratopsians and getting excellently preserved locked in combat with a predator? This is the third fossil where thats happened.

[@a.r.h9919]

They must have been quite tasty or common as rabbits

[@Tyrell-d6o]

A specific criticism of this new fossil: "The skeleton of the mammal's foot grips the dinosaur's tibia and fibula, passing under the femur: how is it possible that this posture of the bones was produced in vivo, without any hindrance given by skin and muscles, and then remains perfectly in joint once the skin and muscles are dissolved?" The authors also received criticism for not performing a tomographic scan on the fossil which would easily prove its authenticity, so let's contain our excitement until a CAT scan has been performed.

[@RaptorChatter]

That's fair enough. I think with what was shown it's enough to show that it's reasonable that it could be a real fossil. If later evidence shows not they I'll happily report on that.

[@thescorchingpteranodon7986]

@@RaptorChatter not at all. lol

[@a2pabmb2]

@@thescorchingpteranodon7986 u wot? lol

[@SandrinoC.]

as suggested by the paleontologist Andrea Cau it could be a fake, therefore holding back the enthusiasm.

[@RaptorChatter]

It could be! But with what the paper pointed out I am reserving judgement on it being fake until more research saying as such is done. For now the evidence in the paper seems reasonable enough to be possible.

[@robrice7246]

My two thoughts on this fossil are this: - This is something I kinda thought of before its discovery. - There's also the possibility that it's a composite like others are saying (being from China and its reputation).

[@timkbirchico8542]

its clearly not composite.

[@timkbirchico8542]

Your reference to China was unpleasant at best. Chinese palaeontologists are internationally respected.

[@Tyrell-d6o]

Good call as there are now several voices from international paleontology suggesting that this find might have been at least partially reconstructed.

[@thescorchingpteranodon7986]

@@timkbirchico8542 proof it is not a composite? All the evidence tells otherwise. ;)

[@herpderp3916]

​@@timkbirchico8542Chinese paleontologists are fine. The CCP, on the other hand, can get bent.

[@SuperMeethead]

Ancient mammal bro ain't special, I eat dinos all the time (I had chicken nuggets for lunch)

[@whiteegretx]

My dogs eat dinosaurs all the time. It's their main meal lol

[@mhdfrb9971]

The cretaceous badger

[@jacobdalland1390]

Reminds me a lot of the "dueling dinosaurs" fossil involving a Velociraptor and a Protoceratops. This also goes to show that (animal) history is complicated. The assumption was that mammals were always prey of dinosaurs, but here we have evidence to the contrary.

[@mikeg2306]

It's never that straightforward. Today snakes and even spiders prey on birds and mammals.

[@arthas640]

4:45 We had to study that in school and even had safety classes on Lahars! Just part of the fun when you live near Yelm, I think the eruptions are why the area's soil is mostly rock unlike most of western washington.

[@darkpandalord3844]

I can definitely imagine small weasel- or badger-like animals taking down smaller dinosaurs.

[@RaptorChatter]

It wouldn't be too wild. The way crustaceans converge on crabs, mammal predators converge on badger. Because it's bulky and punches above its weight.

[@jasonking4037]

This is definitely like the Fighting Dinosaurs fossil with Velociraptor and Protoceratops. I hope we find more fossils like these.

[@skybluskyblueify]

People remember fight and flight but forget freeze. The dino was possibly in shock and froze with their mouth open for us to see millions of years later.

[@evilcow666]

Do you have the papers detailing about prey responcee to predators

[@Fede_99]

I don't know if you did the video just after the announcement of the discovery, but as other people pointed out in the comments and other social media, this fossil is likely a fake composite, too many things about it are very sus, I would've liked if you also would've talked about this possibility instead of just talking about predation, which anyway is understandable since I was also very excited when I first saw it

[@RaptorChatter]

I did at least discuss the reasons they think it is real in the video, and while it could be faked, until there's something with harder science which says so I'm just reporting on what's in the paper.

[@sampagano205]

"likely a fake" is putting the case way too strongly at this point. There's several details in the paper that would be incredibly hard to fake, like things buried within the matrix corroborating what the exposed parts show.

[@xevious1538]

@@sampagano205 Too many people are jumping on the "fake" train because other paleontologist said it could be and have their legit reasons why. It is science, it is the nature to be as critical as possible. But it doesn't mean its fake or real, just that more study and independent research needs to be done.

[@sampagano205]

@@xevious1538 yeah I'm not claiming it's definitely real, I'm just saying that as it stands We really don't know enough and it's a big enough accusation that I think as should hold off on talking about likelihood.

[@chavamara]

It's like the famous fossil of the velociraptor and protoceratops!

[@danielmcandrew979]

Yoooooooo!!! Cretaceous asiatic Wolverine type mammal!!!!! Makes sense we have things like mustelids today, apparently being unreasonably fiesty onward animals much larger than yourself has been a winning strategy even under the most competitive conditions in the fossil record, not just today. I love how REAL as in complex our current understanding of Mesozoic (hypothetical) food webs and climate have become.

[@RaptorChatter]

There's been some really good studies looking at larger ecosystems, rather than just individual animals, it's super neat to see!

[@demoncore5342]

Kinda funny how such a fossil stirs up emotions...

[@seanmckelvey6618]

Assuming the fossil is legit (as others have pointed out there is apparently some debate about this) I still don't necessarily know why everyone is jumping to the predation attempt conclusion. It's just as likely this represents a squabble over resources, or a hiding place as a volcano was about to erupt. I'm not saying that Repnomamus never hunted or attempted to hunt adult Psittacosaurus, but I think we should be a bit more open to the idea that this fossil represents a different scenario.

[@TheThrivingTherapsid]

If they are trying to escape a volcanic eruption, and are panicking (compare it to a dog which is scared to death of the smell of smoke, if you have ever seen how single-mindedly they become, and are not themselves at all) they don't waste time starting a fight with other, much larger, animals. They do not know of anything except for that horrible thing that pursues them. They just run. And run. And run. And run. They have tunnel-vision for that one goal to escape the eruption, so they run. And run. And are eventually caught up by the deadly flow, cooked alive and buried at the same time.

[@seanmckelvey6618]

@@TheThrivingTherapsid Ok, that's nice. Predators very, very rarely attack animals larger than themselves at the best of times, let alone during the early stages of a natural disaster, either. Yet that is what is apparently being proposed here. All I was pointing out is that people are zeroing in on one explanation when there are other possible ways to interpret the fossil, which might not even be legit anyway.

[@mikeg2306]

Seems like Ripanomamus was the wolverine of the Jurassic.

[@frankpatz8708]

I think this mammal, known to hunt juveniles of this dinosaur species, more likely was hunting the young in this case and the adult was defending its young when this battle ensued.

[@RaptorChatter]

That could also be a possibility.

[@bluedragon219123]

I'm just worried about it being a fake fossil. It's just "too" good and there's also a lack of data on the internal makeup of the fossils and the way that some of the bones are cleaned/prepared. Look at the Fighting Dinosaurs fossils and this one. I would love to be wrong but I have my doubts. :)

[@RaptorChatter]

The formation its from does normally have better preservation, but for now I think it's fine to say it might be real. I do think there should be some better looks at it in the future.

[@ilikemorestuff]

The dino was a chef and the mammal was his maitre'd so they were arguing over the seating arrangements when the lahar struck but the soup was going to be a winner.

[@Xnaut314]

Repanomamus has always been one my favorite Mesozoic fossils because of all the biased stereotypes about Mesozoic mammals it defied, and this new discovery unquestionably shatters any speculation about mammalian inferiority against dinosaurs. The idea that dinosaurs were untouchably large and in change from the start of their reign to its end is a very narrow-minded and naive assumption about ecosystems that were as diverse and complex as any other across Earth's history or even the present. Mammals were just as adamant about adapting to new niches and diversifying as much as possible like any other order of animals during the Mesozoic, and simply being smaller than most dinosaurs wasn't gonna make them just hide and wait for a mountain to fall from the sky before asserting any food web dominance!🍗

[@jacksonseyl5255]

That fossil reminds me a lot of the Fighting Dinosaurs fossil.

[@Tser]

James Gurney put out a KZbin video about seven years ago with this exact same title, about Repenomamus! Great video to see a paleoartist at work. All us dinosaur-eating mammals watching videos about dinosaur-eating mammals.

[@odiwalker3973]

It had that dawg in him

[@stephenlamb4212]

Guess this little prehistoric honey badger decided that he was tired of the smaller tacos and wanted a full Mexican buffet instead

[@mikepotter5718]

Wouldn't a lahar rearrange the positions of the two bodies?

[@StonedtotheBones13]

I'd guess no, just for the simple fact that we have fossils buried in sand dunes, or river beds, that are still fairly articulated

[@miquelescribanoivars5049]

Doesn't seem to be a concern in regards to the Sand Dune that likely entombed the Mongolian Fighting Dinosaurs...

[@RaptorChatter]

Potentially, but with the amount of mud which can be deposited by them the weight of the mud may have pinned them down. Lahars aren't just floods, but debris flows, meaning there's constant deposition occurring in some parts of them, so it very well could have covered them and locked them in place.

[@Turdfergusen382]

What an incredible find.

[@bjrn559]

What I don't understand is how do quick burials like that cause the animals to fossilize as if it's a snap shot picture. Wouldn't the mudslide push them in some way away from each other, or at least unlock their limbs from each other?

[@WildWorld81]

Volcanic ash. It’s light enough that it doesn’t disturb the placement of the fossils as much as typical mudslides

[@ArmandoEnfectana-bp6jo]

I think Repenomamus love dino meat

[@liamredmill9134]

Perhaps we are looking at scavenger Pack's,with slightly more brains than Dino's,,,,or it had venom

[@gattycroc8073]

I aways imagined a Repenomamus character to be like Kenge from The Lion Guard. also, I just really don't like its depiction in Speckles The Tarbosaurus as a stereotypical Mesozoic mammal.

[@ArmandoEnfectana-bp6jo]

And the good thing is, Repenomamus exist in Cretaceous and they die when the Space nuke land in Mexico 65 mya and wipe it's lunch.

[@joakos1122]

I think it’s more likely that repanomamus might’ve been raiding the psittacosaurus’s nest or hunting it’s offspring and the Dino defended it

[@wcdeich4]

How does a wolverine take down a moose?

[@thedoruk6324]

The chad og mammal shows that the era of mammals were already started even with dinosaurs!

[@mortified776]

Though we still have to live with the indignity of reptiles still some how managing to cheat us of largest Cenozoic terrestrial predator and pinching a lot of of the lower spots as well. I'm not sure there is even a single mammal in the top 20 Cenozoic semi-aquatic predators (too many damn big crocs and sneks). Current upper estimates for _Megalodon_ and _Livyatan,_ even after _Meg's_ were revised down, rob us of largest marine macro predator too! lol

[@thescorchingpteranodon7986]

That's a fake fossil.

[@LegendaryFrogWithEpicHairStyle]

i eat chicken all the time but i can't kill an ostrich.

[@thedoruk6324]

@@LegendaryFrogWithEpicHairStyle the african tribes could easily

[@iced_cassowary8728]

The virgin mammal vs. The Chad Reptile

[@1998topornik]

The best fossil discovery in 2023!

[@thescorchingpteranodon7986]

It is fake...

[@WildWorld81]

@@thescorchingpteranodon7986 have you posted a rebuttal paper showing evidence of forgery?

[@thescorchingpteranodon7986]

@@WildWorld81 many paleontologists already proved it is a composite.

[@desktop5212]

I think it is more like a fighting rather than a predation behavior. For a small predator, to hunt a prey much bigger than itself is a risky and hard challenge, and there are two major strategies excluding using venom to do it. First, aiming at the prey's weak point like neck. That can make significant damage and gives the prey less chance to fight back. Felidae is the expert of this strategy. Second, hunting in groups like the wolf pack today. They don't need to hit the weak point at once, they have patient and number advantage to weaken the prey step by step and finally terminate it. In this fossil, there is no evidence of group hunting. The mammal didn't aim at psittacosaurus neck but its shoulder, a relevantly strange part of the prey and its feet is in the psittacosaurus powerful mouth. It doesn't like a successful hunting but a fighting for territory.

[@seanmckelvey6618]

I agree.

[@mns188]

Its sad that one of the best preserved psittacosaurus is housed in germany instead of its homeland. I hope that during my lifetime every stolen bit gets back to the land where it belongs!

[@RaptorChatter]

Yeah, it's super frustrating that there's such a long history of this in paleontology. I know some groups are planning to repatriate fossils as soon as proper facilities are built. China has those facilities though, so there should be no issue.

[@mns188]

@@RaptorChatter I find it very unprofessional of the science organizations. It's not just fossils but art too. I guess greed is more important, then and nowadays.

[@Animalco]

At 2:00 - that's a caribou, not a moose.

[@RaptorChatter]

That's the one we could find footage for.

[@lh3540]

I don't care about this fossil, but we need to go back to that wolverine taking down a moose

[@spongebombepicpants1073]

kzbin.info/www/bejne/pWrbeHevf813itE

[@adamgallyot9063]

Omg I'm early

[@thescorchingpteranodon7986]

The fossil is most likely a fake/composite.

[@emma9259]

Any evidence of this or just a gut feeling?

[@adamgallyot9063]

To confirm something as fact or false, you need to state the reasons with evidence

[@thescorchingpteranodon7986]

@@emma9259 plenty of taphonomic issues with the fossil, lot of errors in the paper and not even a single TAC scan (which would be mandative for a fossil like that) was provided. Everything points towards it being a fake/composite.

[@thescorchingpteranodon7986]

@@adamgallyot9063 My skepticism for this fossil is based on several taphonomic issues. From the Han et al. (2023), here I list the 8 elements of the Psittacosaurus-Repenomamus couple which are taphonomically problematic (numbered [1] to [8]): "[1] The mammal’s left hand grips the lower jaw of the dinosaur (which [2] is dislocated and displaced rostrally), and [3] its left hindleg is trapped within the folded left leg of the dinosaur, [4] the hindfoot gripping the dinosaur’s left shin, immediately below the knee (Fig. 1; Supplementary Fig. S9). The mammal died [5] while biting two of the dinosaur’s left anterior dorsal ribs; [6] its mandible plunges downward into the indurated sediment to firmly clasp the bones (Fig. 1; Supplementary Fig. S9). [7] These two ribs appear to be broken, based on their slight misalignment with the remaining ribcage, but [8] the breaks are obscured, and it is not possible to determine with certainty whether the ribs were broken in life or due to taphonomic processes". I have a series of questions which wish are some day explained (numeration refers to the features listed above): [1]: how could the mammal hand keep gripping the lower jaw of the dinosaur? [2]: what force dislocated the dinosaur jaw but did not affect mammal hand gripping and articulation? [2]: what force dislocated the dinosaur jaw yet did not affect the rest of its skull and skeleton? [3]: how could the mammal leg be trapped within the dinosaur folded leg? [4]: how could the mammal foot grip the tibia and fibula bones of the dinosaur? [5]: how could the mammal break and dislocate two thoracic ribs of the dinosaur, yet it left the rest of the skeleton intact? [6]: are the two ribs inside the mammal oral cavity of just adjacent? [7]: why only these two ribs are disaligned from the dinosaur? [8]: if the rib breaks are obscured, how could we determine if they are really part of the dinosaur?

[@darklight6013]

@@thescorchingpteranodon7986 You're not the only one, here there are even more issues about the actual history of the fossil: theropoda.blogspot.com/ It's from the italian paleontologist Andrea Cau, it's in italian but easily translateble

[@curiousuranus810]

This, like the 'Fighting Dinosaurs', is nothing more than scavenging caught in the act - just because there were no bite marks just means our boy only just got there.

[@RaptorChatter]

Very well could be the case.

[@stanhry]

Most scavenging,the softer underbelly is attacked first . The mammal is biting around a shoulder and rib cage looks more like active hunting.

[@WildWorld81]

Uhhhh WHAT? Nevermind this new find but the fighting dinosaurs were of both a Protoceratops and a Velociraptor locked in a fight If it’s just scavenging then how do you explain the dromaeosaur’s forearm clamped tightly in the Protoceratop’s beak?

[@curiousuranus810]

@@WildWorld81 You'd probably be just as close if you said the raptor was the first dinosaur dentist.

[@WildWorld81]

@@curiousuranus810 ohhh just saw your comment history Sorry I don’t engage with trolls. Have a nice day!