The Man Who Killed Hardcore WoW

[@yellowbear521]

What’s more hardcore than playing with a psychopath who at any point can turn on you , truly a maniac

[@fdajax5107]

Yeah dudes unhinged, there's a video of him about people crying too much which I doubt ever happened about the context during that situation. Seems like deep-seated issues too me

[@zdubzz1280]

@@fdajax5107bro it’s a video game, relax

[@id1550]

@@zdubzz1280I think you’re saying that to the wrong person 😅, listen to who he’s talking about

[@BlackShiftification]

@@zdubzz1280still, takes a special kind of person to spend months playing and hanging out with people all the while planning to get their characters and progress deleted

[@Zephhi]

@@fdajax5107 Mad? He trolled and you're mad?

[@SteelTyrant527]

The roleplay perspective of a crusade regiment leader actually being a cult of the damned member and leading the party into Naxxrammas to deliver 38 future death knights to the Four Horsemen and literally only the paladin and priest making it out alive is sending me.

[@darthbeggus8202]

Gives me berserk vibes…

[@simon8890]

holy sh*t, your right...

[@ghoraxe9000]

Nailed it

[@aimcrux2231]

Literally went full Griffith

[@burpbot7555]

37

[@Ruslannar]

I imagine him saying: "hey, don't come to the raid tomorrow" to that one person in the guild that always treated him well.. while packing his duffle bag

[@hallodunase]

Some of you are alright, dont go to the raid tomorrow.

[@alexunitedstand2210]

Hahahahaha 😂😂😂

[@djsuupaa]

Lmfaooooooooo this is out of pocket 😂

[@valtter1234]

he already explained why he did this

[@racerx9931]

one member said they were told to log off about 10 min before the wipe..

[@leonbishop7404]

Everyone thinks that the guy was playing wow hardcore for a year, but in reality he was playing hardcore among us

[@Lina-ws3by]

so good

[@sam-psonsmith9951]

well i guess that means he won, because he killed most of the crew before being discovered.

[@poeethics9331]

​@@sam-psonsmith9951 to be fair he was never hidden...they knew who he was and decided to trust him despite his reputation.

[@sam-psonsmith9951]

@@poeethics9331 true. But i wrote that comment before it came up that they knew he has done this many times before. He also claims that it wasn't his plan right away. I think he was annoyed by how they played hardcore. To him it was soft core.

[@markfrost2307]

Everyone who thinks this is funny: Surely you will agree that it is funny when it happens to you as well, right?

[@troydenbrum2979]

Looks like they couldn't handle the 5th horseman.

[@MichaelSplatkins]

And, lo, he rode into Nax on a dumb horse and he played a tiny violin.

[@odiumhh]

😂😂

[@1HYPERI8N4]

LOL

[@lynyrdskinyrd]

lmfaoooo

[@mcfarvo]

Actually made me lol

[@MunkMunk]

Not only did he wait a year+ to gain trust and raid with them, but he manipulated his way into being the main off-tank for Sir Zeliek.

[@harbhub]

@@alibabasaluja3482 He taught them the fights and strategies to get them there lol insanity

[@boogalooter7280]

best WoW player, respect

[@CapnSnackbeard]

Or he didn't get the loot he wanted and threw a fit like a bitch.

[@davidcardinal3654]

The guild probably said or did something he didn’t like.

[@daveygravy1234]

this is what countries do to get spies in a country

[@MordecaiandMonroe]

Imagine how fast his heart was pounding when they were getting ready and everything lined up the way he needed

[@CyberneticArgumentCreator]

That's the actual endgame of online vidya. Massive one-to-many grief.

[@dontask3613]

His reaction was kind of epic, "oh no. Fuck wrong corner"

[@mojolotz]

All according to kaikaku

[@GeronimoOoO7]

@@an0m1c7what’s his channel?

[@Blackread]

In EVE Online it happened multiple times that a person would join a corp, stay with them for over a year and rise in the leadership, and once they were high enough they stole all their assets and basically burned the whole thing down.

[@Colm1800]

i did this once, the wormholer's never knew what hit em.....they also made the mistake of trusting me and promoting me in 2 months then trying to fuck me over and demand i play 365 24/7

[@davidjack7418]

VileRat: say his name.

[@ehotto]

welcome to the Guiding Hand Social Club

[@PsychedelicAnxiety]

is there any possible accountability for this in the game?

[@Blackread]

@@PsychedelicAnxiety I think in EVE it's all fair game. Basically as long as you're not exploiting bugs or otherwise breaking the game you're allowed to do it.

[@MichaelSplatkins]

The guy's name was Tiny Violin... Of course he was a griefer.

[@redguard2529]

When people tell you who they are believe them.

[@user-sm3kh2bp2h]

Never trust a viola.

[@Keemo577]

Yep

[@michaelknight27]

no way dude i played with Tiny back in SOM was itreally him thats wild to hear

[@TA-vm8yc]

major earthfury griefer back in vanilla classic, used to just have like 7 priest multibox to dispel world buffs all day

[@salbill4484]

They went in to face 4 horsemen, not knowing there were actually 5 horsemen. Love the villain stories from WoW.

[@homelesswizard3161]

Some people are so mad but things like this is what makes the game cool. TBH I'd much rather be a part of this video as one of the "victims" instead of finishing a naxx hardcore raid like nobody cares.

[@yigameiser]

​@@homelesswizard3161now you are just lying

[@homelesswizard3161]

@@yigameiser No trust me nobody, not a single person, gives two f888s that you beat KT in hardcore wow.

[@aarondavidson6409]

There was one horseman.

[@SwitchTalkChannel]

@@homelesswizard3161 You want attention so badly, you want to be a victim to a crazy person's attacks in-game? That's how badly you want to do something that somebody quotes, 'cares about' (since you framed the issue as 'nobody will care about naxx')? This says more about your life and gaming issues, does it not? I would spend some time thinking about this. Try another game, or another way to play WoW that feels rewarding. Maybe no-Guild, collect everything yourself, no mtx, no trading? One problem is the actual design of WoW. It has no real early or mid-game. It's instant Level 60, then raid loop forever. That's all the game really is these days, even for Hardcore Mode. It has no progression and no real grind to it like classical MMOs and even some big single-player games, like Skyrim (though this is only about 150 hours in total, right). What people do still care about, though, is if you can get world record for HC bossing or something. Naturally, nobody will care if you just beat a boss. Many people do that all the time. That's not been really impressive for like 6 years or more? (You can let me know, as it sounds like you've been playing WoW for a long time. I don't play it, and not played since about 2012.) There's always Old School RuneScape UIM Ironman Mode to max, or RS3 Ironman Mode (not regular). That takes 30,000 hours to complete and is very difficult and what many people care about these days, or max XP if max is too easy for you. Should keep you busy. Or any number of other games and achievements. Speedrunning? High scores? Most number of OSRS raids? Max % on Crash Bandicoot 4? Most number of HC boss kills in WoW? Does it track that/have high scores?

[@Menry3427]

I love how even the boss is screaming "I have no choice but to obey!" and "Forgive me" like he wanted no part in this degeneracy LMFAO

[@thebloodygg]

Next time, Bring more friends!

[@treemover7259]

love that the thaddius zonewide announces where fitting to this event

[@ijustreview]

@@thebloodygg Yeah bring 40 friends and not 39 friends and one Imposter

[@RyanHelme420]

Legendary

[@valtter1234]

@@ijustreview as what i understood, they were NOT friends. they were generally good players whom someone had old crudges against, for a reason. not for no reason

[@sandtitan3614]

This man is insane , Taught all the new guild players how to run fights an raids even were to level an grind , Mans built them up to tear them down , what a legend

[@mattm8441]

"legend" People are so terrified of being marks that they condone shit like this so they don't look weak. Which IS weak AF

[@chriskay1449]

The insane thing is that they KNEW he was a griefer. He had been banned over and over again for griefing.

[@markfrost2307]

v

[@markfrost2307]

Everyone who thinks this is funny: Surely you will agree that it is funny when it happens to you as well, right?

[@Rokomarn]

​@@markfrost2307yes it would be funny then too

[@shunsha8606]

A man once said “you’re an idiot if you play hardcore in a blizzard game”. 40 people went into Naxx. Only a couple hearthed out.

[@ThePontoniusz]

Those who survived are not idiots, they are legends.

[@jasonsandoval3823]

​@@ThePontoniuszlegendary idiots? Ye$

[@GolDFish-if1ov]

@@ThePontoniusz more like legendary stupids

[@truthseeker1776]

The theme of HC WoW: 'It's not IF you'll die, it's only WHEN...'

[@ElKabong3345]

@@ThePontoniusz That's as hollow as saying you're a legend for being top ranking in Scientology You're only a legend among that niche group who sees you as that Everyone else sees you as a masochistic dope. and yes I'm still talking about Scientology.

[@MidWitPride]

That priest and pala who knew to cut their losses and HS early really embody the idea that healers know what's going on.

[@Taintedshadez]

Healers always got the best overview of the raid

[@wintermute1814]

@@Taintedshadezimo no, it’s easier to tunnel vision on the healing grid and not pay attention to what’s happening. Vs being a caster who has nothing to do except press 1 button

[@Kongren94]

@@wintermute1814 So according to you, seeing on your raid frames that more than half of the players have instantly died isn't enough to alarm you that the group has wiped and you need to HS immediately?

[@wafflehaxxx]

@@Kongren94 Well literally EVERYONE would notice that, not just the healers. While a healer might be too focused on the grid, ranged dps might be able to hearth out the second they see the tank moving Zeliek out of position.

[@panajotov]

@@wintermute1814 DPS brain, probably melee dps brain.

[@uberneanderthal]

people are looking at this all wrong. he was RPing as a Cultist of the Damned, infiltrating the raid group to sabotage it. In world, this is exactly what would happen. this was the most immersive RP experience in WoW history.

[@nunyabizness6376]

I luv this

[@vexumvii3559]

@@anthonyfaiell3263 terrorism is the act of gaining power and control through violence or instilling fear, hence 'terror' its nothing to do with suicide bombing. It's only terrorism if it's political/for power.

[@Ky-vv8nj]

Gay

[@jackryan8588]

Cultist of the Damned hits hard!

[@DimkaTsv]

​@@vexumvii3559 Maybe in your country definition is different. But suicide bombing is prime example of terrorism. Your definition is probably similar to this one: Terrorism - is variation of political tactics, based on application of ideologically motivated violence. Terrorism purpose - violence to instill fear. Terroristic violence subjects - individuals or non-governmental organizations But by Criminal Code of my country definition is a bit different. Terrorism is making explosions or arsons, that lead to people's deaths or other heavy consequences with purpose putting pressure on the state. This type of crime is conducted with purpose of violation of public safety.

[@josephhenning1781]

The fact he's called tiny violin is the icing on the cake.

[@markfrost2307]

Everyone who thinks this is funny: Surely you will agree that it is funny when it happens to you as well, right?

[@TechnoMinarchist]

​@@markfrost2307I wouldn't play hardcore in an mmo

[@shgalagalaa]

@@markfrost2307ofc not. Watching someone fall is funny being the one who falls is not. You pretend as if that isnt completely normal human behaviour.

[@jokerledger5400]

@@markfrost2307 if im crazy or stupid enough to play a mode such as hardcore and place my character in the hand of other people, when that day ever come, i will let you know.

[@OMGFishoo]

@@markfrost2307 Yes.

[@randominternetguy3537]

the real raid boss was the friend we made along the way.

[@Noah-go8xc]

He freed 39 other losers from wasting their time on zero mechanics, solved, zoomer classic wow. That Bean guy seriously needs exercise and I can’t imagine the rest of these people are doing particularly well socially or physically.

[@ster628]

​@@Noah-go8xcYou thought you did something 💀

[@Noah-go8xc]

@@ster628 all I have to think about is how many of these people are 30 years old+ and have spouses and families that are neglected because their significant other is busy playing hardcore classic WoW. The average person in that guild had 30 days played. 1/12 of the year spent on a literal participation trophy tier challenge.

[@Squall598]

@@Noah-go8xc Lol, fancy 'caring' so much about others. Sure mate, you really care about these people.

[@jamesb6857]

I don’t play WoW anymore, but I played for two years and I trolled the _shit_ out of people….. it’s fun to play and it’s funny to troll. Don’t judge anyone. There are wayyyyy more destructive habits to have than playing an awesome video game

[@eds7228]

Maybe the real challenge of hardcore was never the game at all, but the friends we made along the way

[@lilramennoodle8056]

Made friends with Satan himself I suppose

[@smallpseudonym2844]

@@jarihaukilahti That was completely incoherent.

[@abel6298]

Read your bible! (KJV, preferably) ♥‎‎ ‎

[@TypoQueenie]

Damn that's the meaning of life right there, lmao

[@jenkemp]

i played HC with my son, it was great as a duo

[@Cocytus127]

The fact that he immediately compensated for the taunt with a mocking blow macro to regain aggro proves that he knew exactly what he was doing. Edit: In light of recent interview information, it seems that Judgment Day was his plan along. He knew what he was doing, and it was retribution.

[@Humigigiba]

5head play, gotta love it

[@NattyGlizzy]

nah he fat fingered his macro, all an accident

[@justformay]

@@NattyGlizzy in the exact second the other tank taunted without warning others what might happen

[@sno0p3r]

Great play!

[@neokeith5686]

better than 90% of tanks already

[@laurenfazenbaker9777]

He must have really hated everyone in that guild to set up such a betrayal

[@Expertspecter]

It was Judgement Day. Lmao

[@ghoraxe9000]

Plot twist.. he loved them all dearly..that's why he did it

[@harryb12993]

Trolling doesn't require hate.

[@laurenfazenbaker9777]

@@harryb12993 sure it does. For starters, trolls hate themselves, that's why they troll. It's the only way they can feel good about themselves. They also hate everyone else for being happy when they themselves are always miserable. Misery loves company

[@harryb12993]

@@laurenfazenbaker9777 holy copium. Don't know where you heard that but it was probably a troll victim coping.

[@nosdrian3312]

"Some men... just want to watch the world burn." - Alfred Pennyworth

[@neverbeen5691]

Perfect said

[@anthonyfaiell3263]

Somehow we know this, and yet we still fail to understand the importance of removing them from the gene pool quickly. People honestly deserve this shit.

[@megalamoniacal]

Dude was so calculated that he acted like it was a player error to hopefully prevent anyone from winning a grief appeal.

[@mrcrowe1848]

please don't act like this required any amount of skill or anything to do lol he's a bargain-bin raid troll, not a fucking genius

[@uchuuseijin]

I mean he was on camera using mocking blow to stop the players who were trying to save the situation The appeal was still rejected though because they were warned about him and kept him in anyway

[@asemov2707]

@@uchuuseijin It shouldn't have been accepted regardless, they got played, unfortunately this is life. Part of these hardcore modes is to only put yourself in dangerous situations in controllable scenarios, or with people you trust, if the people you trust betray you - Thems the way the world works.

[@duvalpenny100]

​@asemov2707 e exactly, This would be a non story if this wasn't Hardcore. This is the Life they signed up for.

[@Astelch]

whats crazy is i would've hearthstone immediately when i saw he wasn't doing the mechanics properly. That's hardcore for yall idc if my guild calls me out on bailing out a raid but i aint risking months of my grind for it to end like that.

[@SaarN1337]

I started laughing when I realized his nickname was "Tiny Violin", that's not a coincidence nor a mistake

[@AndvarYT]

The dude used to multibox NINE accounts to Dispel WBs.

[@TySoVm]

Don't hate the playa, hate the game.

[@VintageNarwhal]

The truth was in their faces the whole time.

[@Evilshtt353]

@@VintageNarwhal Gets even funnier that they got warned about him numerous times. They were basically asking for it.

[@VintageNarwhal]

@@Evilshtt353 omg 😂😂

[@yzwme586]

Top 4 moments in WoW: 1. Leeroy 2. Funeral Raid 3. Molton Core Ninja 4. This

[@a1no1x]

Hell, most of these kids don't even know about two of those these days! OG MULTIBOXERS?!

[@CrazyhorseDK]

prefer our old days n unleashing Lord Kazzak on Stormwind

[@MartyrPandaGaming]

What CrazyHorse said, The Blood Plague, the first time Sylvanas was killed (when she had no respawn script), the first Naxx40 and so many more.

[@JD-773]

Let's not forget the wow plague!! I was there for that.

[@jieaze]

I miss WoW😢 then not now

[@jamends1220]

The joy on Zack's face. You can tell this took him back to the days of being a degenerate wow teenager.

[@scrixdaasd4953]

wow just runnin day for 40 people so that his stream could get youtube video from it. wow after mytice dugen. made game soo toxie that stop playing. would say that grifer me at gravard when try lvl 10 year old in vanili was nice people then this guy.

[@dori356]

@@scrixdaasd4953 lay off the booze

[@bobmarley-ml7wn]

@@scrixdaasd4953 TF did i just read

[@Buceesfanmaarten]

"People never change"

[@scope402]

@@scrixdaasd4953 sye

[@SySH78]

only asmon can turn a 1min clip into a 1 hour vid

[@mashadow21]

he could have make 5 pizza's on a stream

[@sudaphedz433]

you've never seen josh strife hayes

[@Fujtajblus]

I played wow only when it came out in 2004 for about 2 months on an unofficial server because Warcraft III is a game that will stay in my heart fovever... I have no context of what wow is now, what it needs, so him providing context and describing stuff in videos like this is very helpful for an uninitiated person like me.

[@moneybubble333]

Frrr

[@jacekwagner1389]

and I have enjoyed every second of it

[@Barny64]

IT WASN'T ME

[@Cluadiusmaximus]

Sus. This is absolutely a Barney arc

[@g_vo]

I fell for the web of lies once…. I won’t fall for it again

[@ignissolus7503]

This is what a guilty person would say

[@whatevernotmatter18347]

Sounds like you

[@Classic80Rock]

We know Barney

[@8SteveGerrard8]

Well, what can I say? This guy took the meaning of 'hardcore' to another level. He rolled psychopath and stood his ground.

[@markfrost2307]

Everyone who thinks this is funny: Surely you will agree that it is funny when it happens to you as well, right?

[@smurfaccount9269]

@@markfrost2307 It's funny. Particularly because it is happening to not me.

[@Lee-wg7en]

meh, they chose to play HC.@@markfrost2307

[@Votlon]

@@markfrost2307plays hardcore wow, dies in hardcore wow, oh no it’s hardcore wow🤡 Pro tip, don’t play hardcore games if your not okay with this or willing to be on guard 24/7

[@jimvick8397]

This guy would have flight instructed the 9-11 hijackers for nothin...

[@trousersnake1486]

Satan in hell: "Dude, you're not welcome here."

[@wideunicorn722]

He needs something a lot worse than hell, Shadowlands should be fine

[@wtfsalommy3250]

Reminds me of Tirisfal Glades as an Uber noob lowbie taking the wrong turn and ending up near SM....rip

[@ROFLWAFFLELAWL4]

Also Satan: “Are you here to replace me?”

[@tsurutom]

Accidentally true, he's in much better company with God, the real psycho.

[@abra4662]

Satan to afraid to wipe in the final times

[@henrymason5941]

He freed them from this prison of a game. A hero.

[@danoniga4411]

My new horo this guy :))

[@dracony7649]

Indeed he made a perfect plan to free those morons from a damn prison called HC mode, /salute

[@merecasuals]

+1

[@G4M3RGU1D3]

true that 100% agree

[@strike-up]

I support the dude.

[@sorrymybadguys]

The absolute most devious part of his plan was his attempt to make it seem like an accident and not a grief. He wanted to stop appeals.

[@dbau97]

At level 60 in the addon you literally appeal to your Guild Master, so not really, he's just being a troll lol

[@Tronerfull]

​@@dbau97lol why bother to play hardcore in that case , its literally the only mechanic. You are just bothering someone to revive you everytime.

[@mouzich]

You cant appeal if you die in raid, thats the rules. Most likely he was just trolling by saying that.

[@SupaFly-gx1zo]

I'd call it devious if he did anything other than sheepishly say "Is that the wrong corner?" after being told like 5 times to move the boss. I don't know why anyone would treat him like some kind of mastermind, he's just a basic troll lmao

[@justinhuey7253]

@@SupaFly-gx1zo basic trolls don't usually wait in the darkness for over a year to strike

[@xxvodanhxx]

Maybe there's a deeper story here. In one of the first runs he was tanking in low dungeon someone in the guild yelled at him for tanking a boss in the wrong corner so he set it up from that point.

[@Herr_Brechmann]

Yeah its gotta be something like that, it was important to him to state he is in the wrong corner, its just something in his voice

[@markfrost2307]

Everyone who thinks this is funny: Surely you will agree that it is funny when it happens to you as well, right?

[@memenazi7078]

@@markfrost2307it is funny

[@Secretsdntmkefriends]

​@@memenazi7078 It's not, really. It's really sad.

[@EAEAAAEAEE]

@@Secretsdntmkefriends anyone who goes outside for more than 5 minutes a day thinks this is funny

[@dangitnicky]

I really appreciate how Asmon explained shit to non-WoW players like myself

[@Swooshmon]

trueee!

[@n.l.4626]

Even as a WoW-player some explanation is required. For example, I still don't really get what the petrification flask would have changed under normal circumstances.

[@immodsr9348]

@@n.l.4626 under normal circumstances you don't take damage for a minute.. the same amount of time it takes before you are automatically teleported out of the dungeon if you leave group. Hence survive..

[@SeanCJ712]

Yeah but he really missed the mark on trying to explain this guy as 'big-brained'. There's nothing clever about knowing the mechanics and how to use them to screw over people. If he had pulled off the wipe and nobody knew it was him, then maybe.

[@chiefkeith5641]

@@dylansmith6078I’m the opposite this was so uninteresting and I’ve never played

[@kevind8240]

"The greatest trick the devil ever pulled was convincing the world he did not exist." - Keyser Soze

[@mercesletifer52]

watch less movies kid,read more morale books

[@Drazard]

​@@mercesletifer52why should he read more books. he still learnt the quote. and the lesson. perhaps you should get off the internet and read more books on not being a fuckhead 😅

[@AAGEnzee]

When i heard about hardcore wow raiding, i was waiting for something along these lines to happen.

[@forfun6273]

Right I thought it was only a leveling thing and you voluntarily delete your character. Not that you invest all that time in raiding and everything that goes with it when a wipe is so easy. Getting one shot is so easy. Just isn’t worth it.

[@JesusProtects]

They are taking the loss of their characters so well. That's even more impressive than the grief to me. An example of good temper.

[@gronizherz3603]

They have all been playing hardcore for ages, this is probably the 50th high level char they lost kek

[@Moseswasagod]

why do you lose your character explain?

[@gronizherz3603]

Playing the game "Hardcore" means that upon the death of your character, regardless of reason, you delete it at once. @@Moseswasagod

[@HHH-xj1tm]

IT is not official hardcore so, since it was a grief, they can just ressurect and appeal.

[@_Travey]

I mean they play hardcore that’s the mentality you have to have or else your just looking for a bad time and disappointment.

[@Yarsito]

>tfw the quiet guildie whispers you not to log in tomorrow

[@MagneticMetal]

if this happened 20 years ago, this dude would make it to all these infamous players list - what a villain

[@kirarozu]

Someone call madseason. We have a new addition to the list.

[@KernalPancakes]

Leroy Jenkins on steroids

[@markfrost2307]

Everyone who thinks this is funny: Surely you will agree that it is funny when it happens to you as well, right?

[@ashm4938]

same principle as when someone comically slips on ice, funny when it happens to someone else, but not when it happens to you@@markfrost2307

[@Kemosabe-]

@@markfrost2307 funny

[@jayeisenhardt1337]

So in the end he wasn't the Joker, he was actually Batman. He set their souls free of this game. Some of them will actually touch grass.

[@snapees]

“Nah his vieweriship will go up, people think this shit is hilarious” As a non-WoW player: spot on assessment.

[@thehoodedteddy1335]

For real

[@tylerwhite4557]

*this shit is hilarious

[@hunterfitch5951]

Tinyviolin was on my Classic realm and the guy spent his whole day dispelling people's world buffs in Org. They guy lives to be a villain.

[@Saintlel]

Poor babies losing their world buffs that just made the raids even more easy :(

[@TheViviking]

@@Saintlel may you find someone who loves you

[@Saintlel]

@@TheViviking Already do bud, that's why I'm not tryharding a game from two decades ago and getting pissed off that I had a world buff removed

[@joseph.icerebro]

This guy's story is like the real world retelling of Morgoth's plan to befriend the elves by teaching them smithing and creating jewels, followed by the inevitable betrayal, an I'm all for it.

[@forfun6273]

The way he instantly says fuck was that the wrong corner? Oh I had the wrong corner. Like it’s extremely obvious he was dragging him into the wrong corner. You don’t get that far into the game without knowing the mechanics of 4 horsemen. I have a feeling that it wasn’t his intention the whole time. They must have done something to him recently and set him off on some autistic, paranoid schizophrenic, psychopath behavior.

[@Eskolol]

Sauron did the befriending. Morgoth was powerful enough that he didnt need to manipulate anyone. Sauron was the guy that not only tricked elves but humans too.

[@forfun6273]

Shit i meant to type a different comment addressing this. But yeah I know Sauron was annatar the gift bringer or something like that. So he did teach elves smithing and jewel crafting. But yeah melkor (aka Morgoth) despised the elves because the valar finally took action against melkor in order to protect the elves from his corruption. (He was kidnapping them and twisting them into orcs) I haven’t read the sillmarilion but my understanding is aule spent a lot of time teaching the noldor smithing a jewel crafting. But melkor spent his 3 ages in prison and was pardoned. And he did want to corrupt the elves. And he got close to the noldor. Especially Feanor. I want to say Feanor already created the Sillmarills before melkor was released. But he definitely wanted them. He did teach the noldor smithing. He taught Feanor how to make swords and armor. As well as Fingolfin. But yeah melkor lied to them both and had Feanor speaking out against the valar and acting a damn fool. So he did in a way deceive the elves. The Valar called for a meeting to discuss the divide and Feanor showed up in full armor with his sword and almost killed Fingolfin. But yeah they figured out it was melkor who was playing them against each other. But they still punished Feanor. And Melkor disappeared but then approached Feanor where he was told to get lost. So melkor destroyed the 2 trees. Killed Feanors father in the pandemonium and took the sillmarills. And that’s when he was cursed and became Morgath. So yeah in a way Morgath did befriend and manipulate the elves. But I’d say Sauron was much more successful in his manipulation. Maybe you can enlighten me on what all Melkor/Morgath taught the Noldor. But my understanding was he didn’t share some knowledge like making weapons. But he wasn’t ever trusted. The Noldor were just thirsty for knowledge so they tolerated him. kinda like Galadriel did of annatar in the second age.

[@forfun6273]

@@Eskolol my understanding is morgoth actually tricked the humans when they were first born. And got them to worship him and fear the true god illuvitar. And the punishment for that was “the gift of man” which was shortened lives. Morgoth could also shape shift. So he would make himself look like the hunter valar who was the first to find the elves when he was going around killing Morgoths monsters. And those elves him manipulated ended up being captured and corrupted into the first orcs. Sauron was definitely known for deceiving and manipulating people. Especially with the fall of neumanor. Because technically his ring plan failed. His true intention was to use them strictly on the elves. But that failed. And the 7 technically failed on the dwarves as well.

[@KassSaiYaJiN]

Parts of this feel like Asmon flashing back to his ninja looting days and admiring the shear degenrative nature of this grief.

[@wayfa13]

@@alibabasaluja3482 if you're a psychopath, sure

[@Hawki_t]

@@wayfa13 At the end of the day, it's just a game. Absolutely a dick move but come on.

[@Yogafireflame]

@@wayfa13it’s hilarious 😂😂

[@dizont]

​@@Hawki_tno it's not cuz your character (invested life-hours) is gone. Same as destroying any property

[@t0nje]

@@dizont The one most upset over this is asmongold lol, the girl borderline didnt care and he was trying to gaslight her into thinking this guy wasted their time and ruined everything lol.

[@cartwright290]

To 39 people this was the end of everything, to the internet this was awesome.

[@markfrost2307]

Everyone who thinks this is funny: Surely you will agree that it is funny when it happens to you as well, right?

[@rainydays5118]

​@@markfrost2307Most of us aren't wow playing losers so it's just funny

[@marannebbeling9799]

​@@markfrost2307 That's what makes it funny -- BECAUSE its so fucked up that it becomes funny in its fucked uppedness. If it was only one player, it would be very sad -- but so many is such an insane waste of manhours that it becomes funny in its irony. To work so hard only to get griefed in the dumbest way. Like a parachute jumper that dies from stepping into a rake on his way to the plane

[@williamblank2213]

​@@rainydays5118 remember you took the time to type out that comment

[@itsdonewith]

@@rainydays5118I think that’s just called a loser.

[@Linkaless]

Either he planned it for a year, or at some point along the way realized what he was in a position to do. It could be like it was said, they where raiding 4x a week, approaching burn out, and he switched goals from KT to PK

[@thegoodrevbadandyarr4272]

His name was TinyViolin. Just look up some of the other comments here on that name. It was planned from the start, that is the name of one of the most infamous griefers in WOW history.

[@mikelezhnin8601]

Yeah I second this - I imagine he infiltrated the guild thinking "I'll grief them somehow eventually", laid low for quite a while, then at some point saw the opportunity, did some prep (getting the right slot on the raid), and executed it perfectly.

[@Ryan_hey]

@@thegoodrevbadandyarr4272 He didn't plan it from the start because the guild's plan was only ever to kill C'Thuun. They didn't decide on Naxx until after C'Thuun, so he was probably burnt out (as the entire guild was) and decided to revert to his old ways.

[@Mr.Sr.Jr.]

​@@Ryan_heyI don't think you understand how Petri flasks work and how this was a perfect setup

[@Ryan_hey]

@@Mr.Sr.Jr. I'm well aware how it works. He certainly planned it, but he hasn't been planning it for months; it wouldn't have been possible being that the guild hadn't planned on Naxx.

[@Shootingfoul]

I don't even play WoW, and Asmond gold was so impressive at explaining everything in a way that makes this so simple that outsiders like me can understand exactly what is going on. He is amazing.

[@joshcamilo873]

Swear, first time I saw it I was like “hm, ok ok, tf just happened.”

[@Molonlabe07]

This is Eve online levels of deception and planning. Bravo sir

[@maksimskuhto6397]

Why?

[@manhphuc4335]

​@@maksimskuhto6397in EVE online, there are always these kind of deception and deceit. There was one dude who betrayed his guild, then before he defected to the enemy guild he as the guild vice leader, proceed to lock everything his guild ever made or owned and put it under his management. Here's the kicker everything in EVE has real world money value due to it's economy, he basically scammed people out of million dollars of hard work. It's hardcore in EVE.

[@t.o.d.2810]

Next level mini-game! Brilliant!! It's not every day that one single player can have such an impact on a game.

[@Molonlabe07]

@@manhphuc4335 the guy single handedly won a massive war and walked away with 10's of thousands of dollars worth of in game assets.

[@chrisf2636]

@@manhphuc4335M-O, keepstar defense shutdown. Something like 16-20 hours of battle in time dilation 1 sec in game to like 4-10sec real-time.

[@tombombadil2918]

played w this guy in classic wow on kurinnaxx he had multiple accounts with dozens of priest toons both factions camped everywhere around the world specifically to grief world buffs, i assume he was operating on other servers as well because an evil like this does not sleep, that was 4 years ago. starting to admire the dedication to his craft.

[@wrythe777]

thats incredible if true

[@Around_blax_dont_relax]

How can you kill that which has no life?

[@markfrost2307]

Everyone who thinks this is funny: Surely you will agree that it is funny when it happens to you as well, right?

[@wrythe777]

you could just not play the shit game and not have it be a problem @markfrost2307

[@stephenhanson8271]

yes it would be funny as hell tbh.@@markfrost2307

[@YahniTV]

This guy really was the villain. He knew the two negative outcomes after his plan. His motive wasn't about the guild he had the bigger picture in mind.

[@ЛеонидМакушин]

And i wish they will! Their name is Legion and they dwell in the shadows. Maybe this will bring attention to the game and actually make Blizzard to do a good thing or two to their own game...

[@Stein871]

@@darwinlost6384 good

[@Omnis.satanica.potestas_omnis]

Tiny Violin truly is the King of Pirates.

[@norbertcsaszar4746]

I mean,with a name like Tiny Violin,i would not expect nothing less than trolling.

[@abel6298]

Read your bible! (KJV, preferably) ♥‎‎ ‎

[@Putuch6]

4:32 that buildup , the suspense jesus. Music synched perfectly. Insane artistic value.

[@Rgrrgr175]

“Like a farmer raising cattle.“ Some straight shooting wisdom right there.

[@jeramiekennedy2052]

Bots

[@pretty-white-lamb]

These city slickers won't get it.

[@Rgrrgr175]

No some bot stole my comment like 2 minutes after I posted it. Some user with some trashy pic. I’m the source.

[@EvilAliceWonderland]

Sorry I'm confused? So they died and their characters were brought back to life in the lights hope chapel? I thought they were hardcore.

[@markfrost2307]

Everyone who thinks this is funny: Surely you will agree that it is funny when it happens to you as well, right?

[@EvilAliceWonderland]

Your comment has literally nothing to do with my comment lol@@markfrost2307

[@JETBLACKPRIEST]

@@markfrost2307 Copy pasting in every reply is pathetic and sad. You didn't even read this one, cry more.

[@TheSlowcheetah89]

This is one of the best Asmongold videos because he goes 110% full nerding on WoW

[@abel6298]

Read your bible! (KJV, preferably) ♥‎‎ ‎

[@Farscryer0]

​@@abel6298Why would you read toilet paper?

[@alexcortes2247]

​@@Farscryer0😂

[@chanman1197]

​@@abel6298I read it. Great work of fiction!

[@OCDlosp]

@@chanman1197 Jesus Christ is the truth, the way, and the life. It does not appear that you understood what you read. James 1:5 But if any of you lacks wisdom, let him ask of God, who gives to all liberally and without reproach, and it will be given to him.

[@seanheisey8645]

The mocking blow was absolutely damning for any "mistake" he made.

[@ivyr336]

Nha dude. He panicked because he lost aggro

[@ninjalacoon]

“Mocking blow” perfect ability name for how much he fucked them back. Poetic

[@tox_ph0b0s80]

He was just trying to get the mob back into what he thought was the right corner. :( So sad. RIP

[@seanheisey8645]

@@tox_ph0b0s80 with everyone telling him it’s the wrong corner? He never even tried to reposition. There’s no way a competent raid tank, fumbles the bag that bad. Not a chance.

[@ivyr336]

@@seanheisey8645 his headphones broke 😢 rip

[@BigDippas]

Most hardcore long con RP ever. The true embodiment of a hardcore griefer.

[@karacter3369]

I hate when people appeal over stuff like this, if he was a hacker it would make sense since he is pretty much not playing the game by its own rules but here, not only he played following the rules of the game, he MASTERED the game, not only on a mechanical level, but also on a role play level, i mean, he will go down on hardcore wow history just like durial went on runescape for the infamous falador massacre, if anything players like this make the game better, you just have to keep in mind that this is a ROLE playing game, and people can role play evil (also accept the hardcore nature of the game, or play it casually)

[@orbitalstrike]

Very well said.

[@Shiirow]

Tinyviolin whispered to themself, "Finally the charade is over, my time has come, Arthas give me strength."

[@asraarradon4115]

Someone griefs noobs and nobody panics because that's all part of the plan. But someone griefs the elites and everyone loses their minds.

[@izzystuntn9541]

The chick totally knew it’s obvious she laughed and bounced she was in on it

[@lanesplitter5685]

i truly don't understand how the hc addon forces one to delete their toon. like does the hc addon community harass people who don't delete in game or something?

[@sss1029]

@@izzystuntn9541 "chick" lol

[@Oms424]

He's an agent of chaos 🤡

[@snerkules-um1dz]

@@sss1029 omegalul

[@solidsteel3634]

When I see moments like this, I just think to myself: It's a good thing that these broken people are living out their psychological problems in games and not with a gun on the street.

[@markfrost2307]

Everyone who thinks this is funny: Surely you will agree that it is funny when it happens to you as well, right?

[@Mezmorizorz]

Yep. It's wild to me that they let a known psychopath who gets off on griefing people into their guild. You need to be very broken to be spending like $4k a year on making other people die in game.

[@zoeslounge95]

@@markfrost2307 I would hope you would have the ability to understand that it would be "less funny" if it happened in real life with a weapon and real people than online against your stupid, completely unimportant world of warcraft character.

[@skillcosby3095]

Imagine the absolute focus and resolve it takes to pull this off. This is the kind of guy who you never want to slight.

[@snail7621]

its not focus or resolve he doesnt do anything besides play wow classic era so its just another day playing wow until the moment he wants to snap. literally just raid log and play softcore until the guild progressed to 4h, such resolve, such focus

[@grantchristopher5361]

I think we've found this no lifer right here

[@FreedomAndPeaceOnly]

LoL this is the guy who wants to never have his irl adress revealed now. You think he is a baddy? If he lives in the USA where gun-possession is legal, crossing no-lifers can be the real death-sentence.

[@happzy]

This is some John Wick shit

[@makavelismith]

Or the exact opposite. Slighting this guy could be the most efficient way to give your life long-lasting meaning, ever.

[@MichaelSplatkins]

Just imagine a raid group with a toxic atmosphere. They're essentially a death wish as anyone who gets fed up will try to take out as many people as possible.

[@arglebargle5531]

​@@Wildery91nah dude, speak for yourself

[@losbloontas]

​@@arglebargle5531he doesn't have to when it's the truth

[@simunator]

nuclear detterence/ columbine doctrine in a nutshell

[@arglebargle5531]

@@losbloontas if you think that an entire generation of people suck then you need to give your head a shake and drop the prejudice. That's a shit-tier attitude.

[@SirTimbo]

Tiny violin face reveal as reverse flash

[@FormerGovernmentHuman]

Something that’s really funny, the warriors were pretty much guaranteed to die. No matter what. Only one of them made an attempt to taunt the boss away and he just mocking blowed. The rest tried to save themselves.

[@JETBLACKPRIEST]

This man flushed 2.9 years of collective playtime, truly a god among men.

[@R3l3ntl3sss]

Was flushed to begin with

[@WarMhoc]

Tiny violin is a man of focus, commitment and sheer will. One day he killed 40 people with his mouse and keyboard!

[@wayfa13]

US drone operators: "rookie numbers"

[@andrebatista3026]

36

[@jisung9432]

The most impressive thing here is how the content king milked an hour long video out of this.

[@TheDiadara1]

the biggest winner in the end

[@kovex85]

LOLW

[@nogum9763]

he made sure the guild could move on to official hard core. such a nice man.

[@lingricen8077]

There is more to this drama - members of this raid are admins of the hardcore mod and revoked their own death status - which angered the community, accusing them of favouritism and corruption.

[@sgttoasterface5282]

You know there was days he contemplated not doing it, or telling certain members he liked not to show up to raid that day, but if he told anyone it would all be over. He was like an undercover cop infiltrating a gang lmao

[@mrksjke]

"I like you, Jimmy. You were always kind to me. Don't come to school tomorrow." Truly normal behavior.

[@Alijamaru]

This is insane man, these griefers dedicate months on their troll character just to grief you at some point

[@clashtwo5066]

the epitome of no lifes that will make the world better when they stop using my oxygen.

[@truckywuckyuwu]

Really makes you wonder if you should cross people. If someone will go to this length in a game, what would they do in real life?

[@MrShoe321]

​@honkydook lmao video games ≠ real life

[@MoonPump]

which is amazing. Its the literal defintiion of hardcore. Get fucked nerds

[@kozukitonio740]

@@clashtwo5066its funny though don get your butt hurt

[@Lsir]

He was the Imposter for a year and won.

[@1NeTruth]

"Oh fuck was that the wrong corner"

[@Gerald0613]

Very funny...

[@gracer619]

Asmon trying to be a serious interviewer while holding back the laughter

[@JoshLitch]

For Heroes to exist and for victory to be fulfilling, Villains must exist and Heroes must experience defeat. - Some Warrior

[@lolololllll]

- Kaido

[@LewReviews]

As awful as this was for the people involved this will be remembered forever it's going to be a wow memory and all the people involved will have the story to say they where part of it.

[@Kododie]

"What a story Mark."

[@j.jbinks9669]

@@accidentalaccount4864 it's really not though is it?

[@t0nje]

The one most upset over this is asmongold lol, the girl borderline didnt care and he was trying to gaslight her into thinking this guy wasted their time and ruined everything lol.

[@LewReviews]

​@dammer001cope is when you have lost something I am not part of the raid I lost nothing how am I coping exactly? 😂 Ya melt

[@oldbuddyolpal9859]

Yes one day they’ll be telling someone else’s grandchildren the story, and the grandchildren will say, “Wow is gay”.

[@tensazangetsu6155]

You can hear the smile in Violin's voice when he said, "Was that the wrong corner?"

[@addyk.8273]

its crazy good, and its the total immersion if someone of your own guild is betraying you. they wrote their own story.

[@twofour9515]

"Its the slow dagger that stabs the farthest"

[@danielrafferty4108]

Always love it when psychopaths find a way to recreate Red Wedding levels of betrayal in a game 🤣

[@Dust_Thou_Art]

That’s the most satisfying grief I’ve ever seen and an even more satisfying response. That’s genuinely impressive.

[@markfrost2307]

Everyone who thinks this is funny: Surely you will agree that it is funny when it happens to you as well, right?

[@Dust_Thou_Art]

@@markfrost2307 Yes. Lol

[@kharngotrekson1726]

@@markfrost2307 Good thing i dont play WoW :D Get your 76'th character ready on Hardcore, like everyone does.

[@wirtz42788]

​@@markfrost2307 did you just run around spamming the same comment like 20 times? I'm guessing you must have been a guild member

[@dragoncovemusic3827]

The type of community to completely tear eachother apart and then ask "why is no one playing in the hardcore servers?"

[@edgezero1557]

As Asmon says, " you're an idiot if you play hardcore in a blizzard game."

[@boblarry867]

"farmer raising up cattle" was an insane line lmao

[@boblarry867]

58:30

[@atraxian5881]

I applaud this guy's dedication. Levelling and gearing a hardcore character up to the literal end of the game just to troll an entire raid.

[@jackbower9087]

​@@vilxxblack2472 🥱

[@Gymthingz]

The longest grief ever

[@ThePianistONE]

Before this raid he didnt have any intencions about killing the raid. Someone said they gift 100subs if he wipes the raid.

[@tupak29]

Now imagine that you meet this person in real and have to work/live next to him. Do you still applaud him? This is a psychopath behaviour... psychopaths are not "nice guys".

[@laggmonstret]

There's nothing here to applaud. Dedication to ruin it for other people only shows how tragic and failed in life this person must be, looking at others' success with enough jealousy to feel the need to get attention through bad actions. And then there are people who admire this total waste of air? Imagine being this dedicated to doing something actually good in life instead.

[@Holymaneli]

The most insane part is that he did this for a year, without changing his mind after being part of the guild for so long. A true psyco hahah.

[@sujimayne]

I mean, he could've decided to do this at any point in time, which could have happened right before this raid.

[@dannys9074]

@@sujimayne nah he waited for the perfect moment

[@werewolf873]

that or they were all pricks

[@KeeperOfDGroove]

Tiny was doing everything within their means to NOT let that boss go lol, Mocking blow and AOE Taunting included lol

[@Scaevola9449]

No wonder that one guy hated this guild, there's a "ma'am" in it.

[@blacktigerpaw1]

I clocked that guy immediately.

[@PaulieMcCoy]

Multiple maams I think

[@ChoperJoJo]

gotta say, his voice is so annoying lol

[@jaygurd7482]

Tiny Violin, The Patient

[@127ibenedict]

I feel for the players who lost all their toons, but this is the most exciting thing to happen in WoW for a very long time. Our generations Leroy Jenkins. This will be talked about and referenced in MMOs for forever.

[@xavdeman]

His username is downright diabolical as well: tinniest violin, 69.

[@needparalegal]

Leroy Jenkins was a hoax. Obviously staged, this looks real.

[@Endslikecrazy]

Nah leroy was actually funny, this is just psychopath behaviour

[@markmuller7962]

Leroy was fake

[@animewarrior3]

​@@Endslikecrazythis is hilarious

[@Bl00dMalice]

20:15 - Saving Face Guild Leader: "Words cannot describe how awesome this game mode was. And what we did, the trend we set together, through rules that we enforced, for our own fun and achievement and sense of glory, no one-- no one-- can take that away from you. No one." Asmon: "I can think of someone." LMFAO!!! TRUTH BROTHER!! BRILLIANT!! The calculated humiliation is legendary.

[@markfrost2307]

Everyone who thinks this is funny: Surely you will agree that it is funny when it happens to you as well, right?

[@TechnoMinarchist]

They was Tiny speaking

[@rivermagic]

1 year of planning?? thats some serious serial killer vibes

[@willajer]

I have to say, I'm really impressed by the way the players responded to this. Refreshing to see a "ah well, we had fun"

[@ardvarksimmons]

Yea Ive seen a lot of people kinda making fun of them and picking apart what they are saying but considering how tilting that would be they took it really well.

[@chc2650]

The addon says FAILED verification status as soon as you hit 60. They could pretend this never happened, this is theatre. This is about as real as slenderman.

[@kovex85]

i would've been raging

[@CD-vg4hl]

lmao they are coping, but its ok, its a "mature" response.

[@RaeneYT]

If you've ever grinded out a hardcore game before, you'd be surprised how detached you can feel from failure. You're always aware that you can get permad and kind of not care at a point. In my case, you'd be miffed a bit, but then arrive at oh well it was bound to happen at some point.

[@Shanex250]

Truly a villain of villains, a menace among menaces, the guy just made a moment in history.

[@lucaseaston]

Another tank taunts Zeliek to move him away and Teenyviolin instantly mocking blows to get him back. :(

[@yyflame]

Crazy how it turned out this guild 100% deserved it

[@AvatarRoku-w8o]

Why you say that I'm just interested?

[@yyflame]

@@AvatarRoku-w8o turned out they were just revoking tons of deaths because they didn’t understand the mechanics of the game and thought that they were glitches. Asmon has a video called “the guild that killed hardcore wow” going over the issue

[@bmo14lax]

​@@AvatarRoku-w8othey weren't playing hardcore, when they died they would put in appeals and get their toons back every time because they basically ran and made the rules for the system

[@echobn6039]

It's just a game, they weren't hurting anyone and it's not like the griefer was obeying the rules either.

[@tylerwhite4557]

@@echobn6039”the griefer” didn’t hurt anyone either. As you said, it’s just a game.

[@davidd577u]

The downfall of hardcore will be televised

[@mikeadcock1985]

He couldnt attend the planned KT kill this weekend - and felt like they were doing it without him. Assuming this was the end of HC he planned to go out with a bang. He was the most infamous griefer in classic vanilla and this guild knew that and still took the chance...

[@benjaminghazi787]

Idk about the most infamous… there were definitely ones just as bad or worse. He was on my server. My guild had server first MC and BWL. The other griefers we had were annoying. More dispellers just like him, just as bad. Docfromhell, rogue named phitness that would gank stragglers tping back from getting wbuffs in org. Teeny wasn’t the worst or most annoying I dealt with at all.

[@mikeadcock1985]

@@benjaminghazi787 Doc and phitness were shit disturbers - but they were just pvping. They werent rez dispelling at 20 different locations just to ruin someone's raid lol

One man sent 30 people to touch grass in an instant

[@beeefin]

Realest comment

[@Crouder]

a lord and saviour

[@zjeee]

This was unofficial HC they raided Naxx the very next week with the same chars that died, some of them already died before but they just disabled the addon anyways to continue playing with the same char. Still it made for some juicy drama I guess.

[@harbhub]

"A weight has been lifted" He was a hero all along

[@robertk908]

when they are talking about wrong corner ... wrong corner, and a guildy taunts the boss off you to try to save the raid, and you switch stance to use mocking blow to continue to take it to melee ... that is 100% a grief. like asmon was saying, he made it through so much content ... he knew everything so well, its not possible to make a "mistake" like that. that was such a long chain of events - this guy didnt make "mistakes" for literally hundreds of complicated boss fights. wild.

[@lenia272]

all that and the fact that he is clearly kiting the boss to a corner with another marked boss and a pile of other characters plain as day. even if he somehow didnt know the right corner during the pull you would notice hey theres already a horse and grp here i fcked up lets find the right corner. not continue to drag it into the group and retaunting it back when they called on VC for someone to taunt it away from him and try to save it.

[@Handcannon77]

..Except the exact same reasoning you give for it being 100% proof that it was a grief, is also his strongest argument for it NOT being a grief, and instead just a really bad mistake by someone who was tunnel-visioned or something. Not making mistakes for so long in order to get to that point is in no way proof that the one "mistake" he did make was intentional. No human is immune to mistakes no matter how skilled they are in something, and no matter how small or large the mistake is, so saying its "not possible" for him to make a "mistake" is nonsensical, mistakes are quite literally part of the human condition. You said it yourself, he made it through so much content, hundreds of boss fights and countless raids, a years time and probably thousands of hours to get to that point...that is easily his strongest argument as to why it was merely a mistake. Its kind of nonsensical to use that context as evidence for why it was 100% a grief, surely you can see how claiming that is some kind of hard evidence of griefing doesnt make sense, right? . Even the mocking blow isnt as definitive as you think it is, since he can easily argue that he was just trying to take agro back ASAP on the boss he was assigned to tank. There really is no completely concrete evidence they can use to claim it was 100% a grief if he maintains his stance that it was an accident, the only concrete 100% proof they can get is him admitting that he purposely griefed and planned this all from the start.