The Manovill Conversations - Timothy Snyder and Black Earth: The Holocaust as History and Warning

Watch Timothy Snyder, Yale historian and foremost expert on Central and Eastern Europe, for an absorbing discussion of Black Earth, his groundbreaking history of the Holocaust and assessment of today’s risks in the face of mounting ideological and environmental challenges to the world order.
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[@MarcosElMalo2]

I’ve watched several of these talks that Tim Snyder gave on Black Earth, and this is one has one of the better Question and Answer portions I’ve seen. My appreciation goes out to the JCCSF audience members that asked the questions.

[@peterdollins3610]

Great insights & knowledge.

[@bronwynbentley4308]

Thank you for this. This is so valuable for us to hear in these troubling times. It’s very helpful and insightful. We need the experts on the holocaust more than ever nowadays.

[@majkaduczko2572]

Thank You so much, proffesor Snyder! At last a nonpredjudice synthesis of the documents and descriptions of the facts from all the European languages that really metter. So insightsful and explained in a very axessible manner.

[@gridgazer]

Big fan of this book. As between this presentation and the one he gave a year or so earlier, at the Jackson Institute, I prefer that one, because it is more coherent and focused. This one gives up coherence to hit factoids that are fascinating but detract from the thesis, and the necessary steps to prove the thesis.

[@radutomoiaga994]

How the fuck you can be a fan of a book that speaks about genocide and murder?!?!. It's not fucking Harry Potter or Star Trek so you can be a fan!!!

[@Athoseye]

What happened to the very beginning ? Why is it missing ?

[@jayr.7209]

Stateless... I cant help but to think about the Palestinian people 🇵🇸

[@adielstephenson2929]

That's because you're an idiot.

[@celesasheldon6931]

Anyplace that refuses to write police reports for a person whose been raped ,harassed ,had knives to their necks ,and defamation of perverse notions ,and seriously beaten or fractured by evil men .. tells you police don't exist in areas of USA ..it's a facade only ..and they use a M.i.k.a and h.a.r p to get rights taken away . They use the pat act to take our rights aways. Without telling us what's going on

[@millsbuckss]

Is that the execution wall at Birkenau ? I’m think yes

[@Kid_Kootenay]

Ever notice most of the people asking questions seem more interested in proving how smartified they are and not so much about the lecture? lol

[@250txc]

Sane people trying to make sense of insane actions, is not gonna happen and result in nothing other than making $ off words like here.

[@echo1174]

The Loss of private property rights IS the loss of your rights. If you have the right to a fair trial you can argue for "Self Ownership", that you own yourself and the fruits of your labour (The very same rights that were taken from African slaves in America) Without private property and the state having a constitution and/or common law of some kind, Which means the state will protect private property, without this then everything is owned by the state. Everything is property of the state. This is where the concept of "Class Privilege" comes from, under 'Feudalism' everything is owned by the state and people are 'Subjects' of the 'Crown'. If the King wants to celebrate your loyalty and keep you loyal, perhaps for future wars, if you have proven yourself as a loyal soldier lets say, you are given a 'Title' like "Lord such and Such" or perhaps you are 'Knighted' "Sir Such and such" along with this title comes the privileges of 'Property' you might get a large fiefdom with a large amount of land (An Estate) and a mansion or a castle, a choice of pretty girls from nobility to chose from, for a wife. And you also get all the 'Serfs' who have to tend to the land, hand over a certain amount of their crops (Some Crops kept for consumption others for Market, 'cash Crops') you might also have to pay rent, Like a protection racket of sorts. It kind of works like the Mafia. You keep your 'stuff' for as long as you stay in favour of the King. If you fall out with the King someone else is Knighted or awarded your 'Title' and they get all the perks and privileges that come with that title. There is no 'Private property' ownership or' 'Private enterprise' at all, nothing that might encourage economic independence. You are dependent on the Crown, The King/Emperor, completely. This is also how Napoleon and Stalin run the state. Napoleon being the first to commandeer or 'Nationalize' Modern industries for a modern 'Command Economy'. Basically Socialism, It's French absolutism, the way the French King ran the French state before the Revolution, when it was still Feudal. Instead of Land ownership, you 'Update the mode of production' to Factory Ownership or a Textile mill or Steel works, Instead of digging for turnips and potatoes, you're now digging for coal. That's it, That is exactly what Socialism is. Intellectuals have confused the concept of Property and Private property to mean the same thing. Everyone needs the right to defend themselves in a court of law with the presumption of innocence, the right to a fair trial and due process was introduced to protect people from the accusation of 'Heresy', where Law abiding citizens are attacked for thinking the wrong thing, or you have 'Guilt by Association' Private property law protects private citizens, it's like a state within the state protected by the state. The State can't send the police or army to come on to your private property at 4am, drag you out on to your lawn and shoot you behind your left ear. There has to be a warrant, there has to be a process, you have to have evidence and there has to be a fair trial.

[@jameywc2]

Two words Balfour declaration

[@larsthorwald3338]

Sorry...due to recent events, all my Holocaust sympathy has suddenly evaporated.

[@neilhasid3407]

The fact that ethnic cleansing took place in Cambodia,and China shows that the existence of a state can indeed be in place. This undercuts Snyder's basic thesis that genocide can only take place where the state is in disarray.

[@2012MariCarmen]

Around minutes 5 to 8 in his talk, he explains very well that mass killings also happen in PARTY STATE countries like those. Obviously you didn't listen to his entire talk.

[@JohnWilmerding]

Machinations dedicated to genocide somehow mustn't actually qualify as a state. We must be better than that.

[@rexel666]

Kvetch, kvetch, kvetch...

[@nerome619]

I'm sure you don't have the self reflections to see the irony in your foolish statement.

[@Globtroter4Life]

I like and respect mr Timothy Snyder but I feel bad that he is taking sources about WWII from anti-Polish liar Jan Tomasz Gross.

[@horsefish2525]

@S&DH www.poloniainstitute.net/polands-history/interview-with-professor-andrzej-kola-archaeologist-who-led-the-exhumation-in-jedwabne/

[@nerome619]

@@horsefish2525 what a useful thing, offset by the rambling callous banality of Dr. Ewa Kurek

[@coreycox2345]

@@nerome619 How do historians resolve disagreements on facts?

[@MarcosElMalo2]

@@coreycox2345 There isn’t really a disagreement of facts. There is a disagreement between meticulous historical research and national myths and patriotic narratives that become undermined by the facts. In this case, many Poles did act heroically, which is the truthful basis of Poland’s patriotic narrative. But Gross’s claim that Poles also killed more Jews than Nazis is also true. However, one must remember the circumstances, and that is Snyder’s thesis. At the time of the genocide, there was no sovereign state of Poland. Polish civil society was destroyed under Nazi occupation, and the SS was running the conquered territory as if it was a concentration camp. Furthermore, most of Poland’s cultural leadership had been slaughtered by Nazi Germany and Soviet Russia in 1939-1940. Into this moral vacuum rushed the anti-Semitic poles who were all too happy to collaborate with the Nazis. It’s a national stain, and patriots like Gross want Poland to come to grips with it precisely because they are patriots. It’s quite similar to the situation in the U.S., where we (I’m American) must come to grips with our national stains of slavery and the genocide of indigenous populations, despite the well established facts clashing with our national patriotic myths. Currently there is a backlash trying to strangle history because facing the bitter truth will make them feel bad and/or undermine their political agenda. I mention this to show that Poland’s problems in this regard are not unique.

[@MarcosElMalo2]

Why do you smear Gross as anti-Polish and as a liar? He is a Polish patriot who fought in the 1968 student rebellion and was imprisoned as a result. What you call lies are actually carefully researched facts that undermine your “patriotic” narrative. In truth, it is you who is anti-Polish and unpatriotic, because you would sacrifice reconciliation with history in favor of unthinking false pride and “goodthink”. If you want a stronger Poland that can take real pride in itself, learn and accept the unpleasant truth. Take the medicine that unvarnished history provides.

[@jespermortennielsen]

No explanation at all as to why jews were hated. That taboo is never discussed.

[@adielstephenson2929]

Oh, don't start being an A1 antisemitic asshole.

[@dorandacolbert5973]

What explana

[@Landis_Grant]

Winners of wars get to write history. Who really knows what actually happened?

[@MarcosElMalo2]

Scholars with access to historical records and archives write history, as well. You should try to read some of them rather than retreating behind your pathetic defenses built from hackneyed cliches. “Who knows what really happened” is the war cry of postmodern fascist propagandists trying to crowd out the truth with lies. If you want to know “what really happened”, do the work. If you you’re too lazy to do the work, keep doing what you’re doing.

[@erichodge567]

Who knows the truth? Certainly not those who stop looking for it.

[@Baczkowa78]

Statelessness. Sounds similar to Palestinians.

[@jayr.7209]

yup! Kinda makes hamas look different under another light lol

[@user-gq5qj7dt7f]

There was never a Palestinian State. That does not mean that the Pals should not have one. Please remember that the day after (UN voted) Israel was declared 5 Arab armies attacked to try to eradicate the fledgling Jewish state. The manifestos of the PL0 and Hanas still have that clause! All attemps to come to a peaceful agreement have till now have been rejected. Lets hope that compromise will eventually come to being.

[@MarcosElMalo2]

@@user-gq5qj7dt7f It seems unattainable at this point. Both sides (the political leadership of both sides) have “retreated” to extreme defensive positions despite progress made in the late 70s and early 80s. These positions have become frozen. There is a ray of hope, however. Israel has been quietly (and sometimes secretly) cooperating with Arab neighbors threatened by Iranian hegemony. I do not if such cooperation can lead to a thaw that allows both Palestinian self-determination and Israeli security, but one can hope. The ongoing disintegration of the former Soviet empire (whose entire oil based economy benefits from M.E. instability) might help.

[@dorandacolbert5973]

The Palestinians can thank their Arab grandparents for being stateless.

[@mynamedoesntmatter8652]

@@dorandacolbert5973 They are Jordanian Arabs, the descendants of the tribes of Esau. People always fail to leave out the one book, the sole truth and authority on this, and that is the Bible. Everything is written, and everything is truth. But people don’t want to believe something when it’s the Bible. Scared, maybe? Just plain refusal to accept what’s been happening throughout history as truth. There never has been any ‘Palestine’ or ‘Palestinians.’ Even history not read from the Bible tells us this. The Jordanian king refused to take in the Arab refugees. They’re handy for Hamas; they’re useful, their geographical place is handy for any terrorist organization. It’s historical, biblical and reading from non biblical sources tell the story. God’s land was a not to be divided or sold; it is His land, lands He gave to His chosen people, the Hebrew Jews. God will punish the nations who turn against Israel, and this is beginning on a worldwide stage today. That cannot be denied.