The many definitions/types of emo (& where they came from)

[@iknowbroikno]

to say My chem was loosely associated with the hardcore scene is a lie. I grew up in Jersey started going to shows in 2001 and my chem was always playing basement hardcore shows or members were at said shows. Im not a fan of mychem but I had to clear that up.

[@nonward]

Sorry about that. I definitely phrased that poorly in the video; I meant to say that overall, that wave of bands tended to have a looser connection to emo/hardcore, but it's true that, while I certainly didn't know those details and the extent of their connection, that MCR's first album is much more post-hardcore/emo-sounding, and I had assumed and gotten the impression they had a signficant connection, perhaps similar to the "pop-screamo" wave of bands. I mainly was thinking of Panic! and Paramore, and to a lesser extent FOB (since Pete Wentz, at least, was in hardcore bands, but I'm not aware of Fall Out Boy themselves being directly in the scene) and sort of just taking the average of these bands, haha. Thank you for your comment and for clearing that up.

[@brandonrohan4768]

One of the best videos out there to clearly break down all of these interrelated variants of music. Great summary!

[@nonward]

@@brandonrohan4768 Thank you so much for the very kind words; I really appreciate it.

[@cherah1]

I didn’t realize the genre had such a complex history. Great video!

[@nonward]

@@cherah1 Thank you so much

[@conscioushumanoid154]

"i'm not emo ok" "then why are you listening to sunny day real estate" in all seriousness, such a thorough video. i learned a ton. i knew this video was either going to be a mindless rant or what it ended up being which was very informative and entertaining 👍 i'd love to see more

[@nonward]

Haha. Oh, wow, I'm glad to hear it, and thank you so much; I really appreciate the kind words.

[@conscioushumanoid154]

@ no problem. and sorry if the random quote threw you off 😂 it was a part of the goth kids episodes in south park.

[@nonward]

Oh, yeah, haha. I thought that sounded familiar. South Park is one of my favorite shows, and I liked that episode a lot, so I should've known that.

[@hclyrics]

The late 2000's emo revival solidified my musical taste so much more than I ever consciously knew. The hardcore, pop-punk, grunge, and shoegaze I listen to nowadays definitely shares a lot of sonic DNA with those bands.

[@nonward]

Oh, wow, yeah, I think I can relate to an extent, especially with Balance and Composure and Citizen, as I think they, along with some other artists, have helped me get more into grunge-influenced music in particular. Thank you for commenting and sharing.

[@hooks4638]

Very through and solid breakdown. Very academic. However, I hope this helps people realize that all this labeling and "creating" of genres is dumb and pointless. It all basically punk and/or just rock. Just enjoy it

[@nonward]

Thank you so much. And while I personally am generally a fan of genres and think they can be useful/helpful, you certainly make a very good and important point, and I do agree to an extent; they can easily become excessive, be confusing/distracting, limit creativity, and pigeonhole artists, and it's also true that many of these "emo" bands preferred to just call themselves "punk" or "rock," just like you said. Thank you for the thoughtful comment and for the very kind words.

[@skramz_enjoyer]

I love both skramz and "rock/pop punk/mallcore" or whatever term we're calling bands like mcr or alesana

[@nonward]

Oh, nice, I like both of those, though I probably prefer the MCR/Alesana/Silverstein/mallcore type stuff and also the more theatrical/dramatic emo pop/pop punk like Fall Out Boy/Panic! at the Disco/also MCR, haha; those are probably my two favorite "emo" styles personally. Thanks for your comment and for sharing.

[@iknowbroikno]

I named my daughter Alesana :)

[@SceneKween027]

As an emo AND scene person, I love this video so much

[@nonward]

Thank you so much.

[@ifiwantyoutofeel]

Nowadays i listen to something called Emo Plugg, which is similar to emo rap "Blxty" an artist in the underground scene is a perfect example of emo plugg There also the hyperpop scene which shares some similar elements with emo "Heylog" is an artist that comes to mind with his depressing lyrics and songs, he sings, yells, and has so much emotion in his voice Brakence is another incredible hyperpop artist who uses Midwest emo style guitars heavily and although his songs are sad he probably doesn't fit the emo term but the influences are there

[@ifiwantyoutofeel]

Also the song "Astrid" by Glaive has a guitar melody that sounds like it belongs to a midwest emo song yet the track is more of a pop vibe

[@nonward]

Oh, wow. I hadn't heard of emo plugg or plugg before, and I was not aware of the extent of artists combining emo and hyperpop, though I guess it makes sense, given the similarities as you noted, and certainly, artists recently seem to have been much more innovative with emo, beyond emo rap, than I realized. Thank you for commenting and for sharing your thoughts and the interesting artists/songs.

[@goodnightmoon]

my favorite emo bands pg 99, orchid, swing kids, song of zarathustra, the crimson curse, mohinder, ordination of aaron, combatwoundedveteran, one eyed god prophecy

[@nonward]

Nice. I don't know a lot of these; I'll have to check them out. Thanks for sharing.

[@warmsignal]

To me it's just one of those things where you know it when you hear it. I feel it isn't specific to a certain genre, time period, music scene, or style of playing. It's kind of like judging if a band is heavy or not. Some bands are kinda emo, some bands are really emo, and some aren't emo at all.

[@nonward]

Yeah, that's a good point and a good way of looking at it, and, I think, that's a really good conclusion to draw. Thank you for the thoughtful comment.

[@mohitrahaman]

To me punk is about the State. Emo punk is about the State, of your mind! Rest are posers.

[@nonward]

That's a very concise and well-put description of the two styles. Thanks for commenting.

[@mohitrahaman]

@@nonward Thank you, kind sir. High quality stuff from you as well. LLAP 🖖

[@nonward]

Thank you so much. Live long and prosper.

[@KlF-p8g]

great vid ^^ !

[@Thismightjustbeclaypuppington]

Loved the video. Very interesting.

[@nonward]

Thanks so much; I appreciate it

[@ayviriviross8813]

. … Thanks , 11 AM YT Algorithm

[@nonward]

Thank you for watching; glad you liked it.

[@MostPretentiousMusicNerd-ux3ln]

I was a total purist at some time until I caught myself making exceptions for bands like Brand New. I would get mad at people for calling Dashboard Confessional emo and then put on some Brand New. Since then I just let people enjoy it, while still being that one guy that'll sit in the corner of a party, totally drunk and explaining the history of emo to some poor dude that had the misfortune of sitting next to me.

[@nonward]

Haha. Yeah, this is basically me as well; I definitely can relate to this a lot, except for me it was all the scene artists being called emo, haha, but I realized my own definition of emo was not so consistent. Thanks for the thoughtful/insightful comment.

[@T0MABM]

Great video! Personally really into skramz

[@nonward]

Thank you so much. Nice, while I personally prefer more melodic/softer emo, I do like some songs by Saetia/Indian Summer, and I think the genre has an interesting and dynamic sound, and it seems like it was important and influential on some more accessible/mainstream bands like Thursday/Silverstein. Thank you for commenting.

[@T0MABM]

@@nonward Great bands! I especially love Indian Summer.

[@erikcopeland]

What are your thoughts on deathcore?

[@nonward]

I'm sorry, I don't really know a whole lot about deathcore, as personally I tend to prefer a fair amount of singing, though I like some metalcore and am a big fan of later BMTH, but I know deathcore is a bit controversial among metal fans (I think at least partly because of all the breakdowns? Which are one of my favorite aspects of metal/hardcore-related styles, haha) and has been sometimes associated with emo, which I think is a bit funny but makes sense to me because of its connection (at least during the 2000s) to scene culture/fashion and also its overlapping fans with scene-associated metalcore/post-hardcore-influenced bands. I'm very curious about your thoughts about it, though, as I'm sure you would have much more interesting/insightful things to say about it than I do.

[@scraemO]

What my genre type is my songs??

[@nonward]

Interesting/cool songs and sound. Based on your most recent songs on your channel, my best guess would be screamo/skramz (though I'm not super knowledgeable about the nuances of the subgenre) just based on the dissonance, quiet-loud dynamics, emotional lyrics and screaming, except the acoustic guitar is a bit different for the subgenre, I think, which is cool.

[@scraemO]

@nonward don't have no electric guitar so I gotta work with what I have, cause my acoustic guitar Is a bit broken, it makes it hard to fit screamo with the instrument, but thank you for at least checking it out

[@nonward]

@scraemO Oh, sorry to hear that. I think it still sounds good though. Thanks for sharing.

[@rovve7432]

It's someone else's responsibility

[@nonward]

I'm sorry; I'm not entirely sure what you mean, and I may be misunderstanding, so please feel free to clarify/elaborate, but if you're saying it's, like, other people's responsibility to define the genre (or any genre) and not necessarily a single individual who ultimately defines it, I certainly am partial to that view and think I would agree. Thank you for the comment.

[@niktczylija]

No underoath mentioned in screamo😔

[@nonward]

Sorry about that; they definitely should have been mentioned as they are certainly one of the most important/successful bands of that wave of screamo, and both They're Only Chasing Safety and Define the Great Line are both, of course, very significant albums in the genre. It totally slipped my mind somehow. Thank you for commenting and for mentioning them.

[@AIMusic4U2Hate]

Emo is only a music genre for normies. For those who have a good base of knowledge of underground punk and post hardcore we know that it wasn't ever meant to be a genre name. It was an insult created in the mid 80's for hardcore bands who wrote emotional songs. The first band to be called "emocore" was Marginal Man who wrote a song about a band member who killed himself. Growing up in the 90's you would hear the term as an insult for post hardcore bands like Rites of Spring, Fugazi, and Cap'n Jazz. Later it would be used as a slur once again against indie folk rock bands like American Football and Joan of Arc. No one, and I knew a ton of people in multiple punk and hardcore scenes to include members of bands who would later be labeled as "emo" like Don Matin Three and Current, but NO ONE WITH ANY CREDIBILITY used the term "emo" as a genre name. The first time I heard it used as such was by Rolling Stone Magazine around the year 2000. I passed this along to a few of my friends and we all laughed at the idea that anyone would ever use it as an actual genre term. Then the posers/normies picked it up and it became a genre name and a self declaration, by using it, that you knew nothing about underground music and were in fact a poser. That may upset some of you younger posers who grew up not knowing any better, but it's simply the facts from the front lines of underground music. I would take this entire channel with a grain of salt after watching this video.

[@nonward]

Thank you for sharing your knowledge, perspective and insight, as well as for providing some extra context, and it's clear you know a lot more about punk/hardcore/post-hardcore than I do, but we may just have to agree to disagree about the value of the information in the video, but I do wish I had focused more on the stigma of the term "emo," so thank you as well for emphasizing and expanding on that.

[@AIMusic4U2Hate]

@@nonward There's a great documentary with all the people in the DC hardcore scene called "Salad Days" which would also provide some insight from the mouths of the people who were there at the time.

[@nonward]

Oh, sounds good. I'll have to check it out. Thank you for recommending it.

[@AIMusic4U2Hate]

@@nonward Seems like you probably should have watched the defining documentary on the DC hardcore scene before making a video about this subject but glad I could help.

[@nonward]

​@@AIMusic4U2Hate I disagree that it was necessary, as I don't think a deep dive on the DC hardcore scene was necessary for the scope of this video, but yes, thank you for the help.

[@CATFOODSAVANT]

Real Emo" only consists of the dc Emotional Hardcore scene and the late 90's Screamo scene. What is known by "Midwest Emo" is nothing but Alternative Rock with questionable real emo influence. When people try to argue that bands like My Chemical Romance are not real emo, while saying that Sunny Day Real Estate is, I can't help not to cringe because they are just as fake emo as My Chemical Romance (plus the pretentiousness). Real emo sounds ENERGETIC, POWERFUL and somewhat HATEFUL. Fake emo is weak, self pity and a failed attempt to direct energy and emotion into music. Some examples of REAL EMO are Pg 99, Rites of Spring, Cap n Jazz (the only real emo band from the midwest scene) and Loma Prieta. Some examples of FAKE EMO are American Football, My Chemical Romance and Mineral EMO BELONGS TO HARDCORE

[@CATFOODSAVANT]

Im sorry

[@nonward]

Haha. It's the only thing we can be absolutely sure of in this life.

[@kvetchnik]

as an insufferable emo gatekeeper: i'll keep mallcore before any shitty revival band

[@nonward]

Haha, I can totally relate and do prefer that sound (which imo is a bit darker and more dramatic, which I like) and have had a hard time getting into many of the emo revival bands. Thank you for commenting.

[@kvetchnik]

@@nonward i luv the dramatic edge to it, it's like it's like it's not even self-aware or thrives in being cringe. plus, it was everywhere back in my day and while i was already an insufferable music snob, the bangers were undeniable, who doesn't love a good pop ditty? revival on the other hand is unlistenable

[@AndrewN-n8z]

Weezer is not emo,Weezer is one of the greatest rock bands ever,they blend alot of styles to make the Weezer sound but they're absolutely not emo. It's like calling Glassjaw pop punk.

[@nonward]

Yeah, personally I agree with you. I mainly included Weezer in the video because I know some people associate them with emo and they're a prominent band, though I honestly agree that they don't seem very influenced by emo overall, though I get the connection to an extent, and they seem to have been influential on some emo bands. But you certainly make a good point, which I probably should have made in the video to clarify. Thank you for commenting.