The Mark Steyn Show with Douglas Murray

We're proud to present a brand new edition of The Mark Steyn Show. In this episode, Mark talks to Douglas Murray, with whom he last appeared on the tenth anniversary of the Mohammed cartoons in the Danish Parliament. Douglas discusses his new book The Strange Death of Europe: Immigration, Identity, Islam, published in America this week and which Mark describes as "profound".
Steyn and Murray survey a continent in unprecedented demographic transformation, and roam far and wide in their analysis from the East End of London to the Mediterranean refugee camps, from far northern Sweden to the tomb of Charles Martel.
The Mark Steyn Show acknowledges the support of members of The Mark Steyn Club. For more on the club, please go to www.steynonlin...
© 2017 Oak Hill Media Inc/Mark Steyn Enterprises (US) Inc. All rights reserved.

[@bosse641]

. “To learn who rules over you, simply find out who you are not allowed to criticize.” - Voltaire

[@RafaelNew]

Great quote, Ill borrow it!

[@chrisconing8275]

So true.

[@charliemorris2338]

Reminds me of quotes about Jerry Falwell ,jr's dictatorship over Liberty University in Lynchburg,Va. where he rules with an iron fist squashing critic's who are afraid to talk truth to power about him and Lynchburg being home of the nazi's in the 1920's where Adolf Hitler gave an award to the Lynchburg Training School for the work they had done in Eugenic's study.

[@MediaMalable]

Erudition, calm, truth. Can this be television? Certainly not. This is KZbin. And yet the spirit of inquiry is increasingly alive here. Hard conversations must not be approaching with weak, flinching equivocation. Murray and Steyn speak, and speak clearly. We need more like them.

[@ytsm]

Marcus Aurelius Yeah that's great and all, but it's rrrraaaacist! Reeeeeeeee!!!

[@carolmcln5028]

Sadly, KZbin doesn't think so...

[@thomasmcewen5493]

Marcus Aurelius How is your son doing? Spare the rod spoil the child.

[@josephososkie3029]

Marcus Aurelius . I wish I could agree because Mark Steyn is one of my favorites but where you see calm”I see a lack of needed passion. Where you see “ spirit of inquiry” I see dancing around the elephant in the living room. What I notice is that Europe freely gave up its national identities in favor of EU and globalism. That was damaging enough but it also gave up its religion with nothing to replace that gaping hole. The pathetic scene of people huddled around a piano singing John Lennon’s “ Imagine” after an Islamic Terrorist attack was telling.

[@jjgriffin100]

It is deeply disturbing that there is a very large percentage of native Europeans whose only response to these two polite, intelligent men assessing the objective facts and coming to the only obvious conclusions about what is happening and where it is leading to, would be to shout: "racists".

[@stellarjayatkins4749]

The problem is... the only solution. The only sane and logical course... is racism. Not hateful racism. But sane and reasonable acceptance that the races ARE different. That culture is an expression of a people. And multiculturalism/ multi ethnic nations cannot survive intact. Study after study has shown that cohesion and trust within communities plummets in "diverse" communities. It's a structural decay within any society.

[@brendanburgess2071]

Douglas is no longer called racist? They've moved onto hate preacher

[@jjgriffin100]

Far Right, hate preacher. surely. They never go half measures in their insane rhetoric. "I mean, man, he is literally Hitler. LITERALLY!!!!!!"

[@Soldierboy54b]

+Springmellon a....Which is exactly why, & it brings me no joy to say this: Europe will die.

[@Pithead]

The Bell Curve by Charles Murray.

[@leo333333able]

After watching the BBC this is like oxygen.

[@irishenergy6719]

We give billions in aid to these poor countries but still they all want to move to Europe, what has happened to the money we spent ? Its like paying off your friend's mortgage but still all his family and relations want to move into your house.

[@lizzylass4805]

the reason is a religious one. an islamic religious concept of hijra. immigrate to other lands, populate them, demand protection as an ethnic minority, demand more rights and priveleges, demand islam be respected and taught to the infidel, and when your numbers grow substantially, vote for muslim leaders using the instrument of democracy. then dispense with democracy and stage an islamic revolution. dont believe me? look to history. lebanon, syria, pakistan, indonesia, egypt, you name it. europe is just another name on this long sorry tragic list.

[@RamSadeh]

Hahahahahaha- More like paying HAMAS and the likes for weaponry and training of the "soldiers of Allah"...!!!

[@SirKenchalot]

The money was squandered by the already rich people in power most of the time; very little made it down to the poor folks and even if it did, some was used to buy weaponry for civil wars and tribal conflicts, depending on which country you're referring to.

[@malpreece5008]

quark quirk Well, many African despots continue to have the support of their people regardless of how the West spends its money. African leaders continue to use anti-colonial rhetoric to maintain their positions, and it works! Many of them were bought in on waves of nationalist euphoria in the post colonial period, so Africans are largely victims of their own choices. As indeed we all are. Rather than finance tyrants it would have been more effective if the British had maintained control of their former colonies, but the colonised felt differently, and obviously believed their nations would be better without British rule. Personally, I think they were gravely mistaken.

[@scallawagon713]

get to IT man!

[@callithowiseeit5806]

To think of all the shit our grandparents went through thinking they were creating a doorway for us to walk through to a better life, they might as well never bothered, dreadful times

[@quatervois7966]

@T.L. Watkinson It's not us that are encouraging it. It's politicians that are doing it......and they're doing it on purpose....and that purpose has nothing to do with altruism. There's something else going on entirely.

[@idiocraties]

Very obvious an interview like this could never take place on modern TV. No interruptions, no talking over, no haranguing, just debate and civility. TV is finished. Universities are finished. The future of reason and intellectual pursuit is the internet.

[@colinthomson5358]

Douglas has been great since I first started listening to him around 2014 but he has really improved this last year into one of the most important public figures in the UK (Or Europe, or Western world) today. Asking the questions that need to be asked.

[@domzbu]

Sean Raymond to take too hard a line too quickly pushes away too many people. You need to smarten the speech a bit to appeal and grow an audience. The average audience understands the true nature of the problem. Both of these men have lived with fatwas and real death threats for a decade and more.

[@pentreifan3905]

Colin Thomson Sort of. Don't forget, he's a bit of a tourist. He doesn't live next door to Islam, he's not butted that close. He's concerned about the bigger themes. He also comes from a privileged background and lives the sedate life of the writer. There is zero dirt under his fingertips. I get the feeling his primary concern is his sexuality in relation to Islam. Contrast all of that with say Tommy Robinson. Robinson does not possess the wordiness of Murray but I suspect his is a sharper mind, forged by living amidst islam. I'm always suspicious of people who write it but don't live it. Murray is kinda supercilious and not have as funny as he thinks he is. He's a better commentator on issues like lgbt and art imo. Leave the hard lifting to tommy Robinson.

[@colinthomson5358]

Ifan Cooke - I like Tommy too but Tommy will only appeal to the working class. The middle and upper classes will NEVER take him seriously and listen to him unless the media say so. And the media will never do that. The thing I don't like about Tommy and I think this is less true (I'm not sure by how much) of Douglas is if every Brit was replaced by an African or an Arab Tommy wouldn't care - as long as they aren't Muslim. I don't want to be replaced by either tbh. But we shouldn't complain - we are going to need every single person trying to make a diffence and even then... I'm not sure if we are going to win. Sad but true.

[@pentreifan3905]

Colin Thomson don't disagree with anything you say. Sadly

[@Noah-or1qs]

Silly Allen Tommy Robinson is a BTEC Douglas Murray. He is as articulate as a 5 year old, can't stand the bloke.

[@debrahanson3563]

Keep the faith Douglas! You are not talking into a void - you are a beacon of light. Millions feel frustrated, screaming in agreement with the little boy who points out the emperor has no clothes but being drowned-out by mass knee-jerk, apologist bleating.

[@whiff1962]

As long as there are men like Mark Steyn, the West has hope.

[@fredvanhees3249]

You don't have to slow down the migration flow. What you need to do is first stop it, and then reverse it.

[@fuchsiafreud]

I think offering people money to move out is a good idea. Turn in your passport and citizenship and get 2k pounds or some such arrangement - it's hard to fathom it would be a unprofitable system.

[@JimmyKillem69]

Billy Bob What's trashy about encouraging remigration?

[@andrewfoord4374]

Tom Reversal would be a beautiful sight.

[@salfordlad3829]

Bits of human remains and dead bodies on British streets isn't that pretty either.

[@sterling2191]

Fred Vanhees...Exactly!

[@endofthelinejoel]

Murray is brilliant and carrys Chris Hitchen's torch. He does not get enough widespread exposure.

[@YouCantEscapeTheBlob]

It's always funny when people use being a former communist citizen as a badge as though that automatically makes their subsequent point not stupid. Atheism =/= communism. Should be obvious, but apparently it isn't.

[@johnmartin2017]

I'm sure he'd be welcomed with open arms on The View and then mosey over to CNN and then an open and freewheeling discussion the editor of The New York Times.

[@theohuioiesin6519]

Thomas McEwen you make some valid points about Hitchens. I find it a gross insult to compare Douglas with Hitchens. Hitchens was a clown. A funny clown. But a clown in my opinion who would say just about anything to be seen or heard. But for the record he was witty. But Douglas Murray is a respectable human being.

[@streetparade]

Steyn is the best interviewer I've seen in a long, long time.

[@edwardkirkhope9072]

Two of the most courageous, articulate and informed commentators who I always make time to listen to. They can see with such clarity the folly of mass Muslim migration and carefully describe it's problems to the rest of us who are profoundly concerned but not as good expressing it calmly. If only the liberal elites right across government, media, academia and the entertainment industry had half as much concern and honesty.

[@kentnordland138]

Can you think of a greater threat to western society than Islamic Extremism?

[@enso7890]

NevilleRhysBarnes Yes there's a document named The Project by the Muslim Brotherhood setting out their long term strategy of establishing Islam in the West by infiltrating our institutions. We can already see this happening in our political parties, schools, universities, prisons and mosques.

[@silverjones2317]

***** the focus is on islam that's a curse and danger not just on infidels but on muslims themselves

[@dianeoliver6622]

Edward kirkhope Half as much? Good grief, I'd be happy with a fraction of that!

[@dianeoliver6622]

John Cremaster Bono and Bob bloody Geldof have a lot to answer for.

[@abbamanic]

Two of my libertarian heroes, together! This was a joy to watch and hear!

[@abbamanic]

I know Old Oddjobs. Isn't it wonderful :)

[@abbamanic]

I put more store by the words spoken and written by these two men than any other. They are knowledgeable, articulate, passionate and all too rarely these days, sincere. To have two of my three libertarians in one place was a joy. Their minds are staggeringly incisive.

[@owendish]

Trance State if they were true libertarians they would be for unlimited free movement

[@abbamanic]

Libertarian, as in freedom from political correctness, de-bunking the climate garbage fascism, they support freedom of speech, they want debate and thought about the Islam problem. Libertarian, yes, being conservative does not make a person illiberal. Now the regressive left's new Blackshirts, eg antifa, theyre the ultimate conservatives.

[@abbamanic]

No, if a person is for unlimited free movement that person isnt liberal, they're deranged.

[@owenmartin3307]

Multiculturalism works where there are two complimentary cultures, English gift for poetry mixed with clever ideas from Italian writers gave us genius of Shakespeare ,but there is no point in mixing opposing cultures.

[@owenmartin3307]

Holler Ham there was no concept of wrong spelling in Shakespeare's time,good enough for him good enough for me

[@murderousmachiavel6151]

Owen Martin Yep, if all cultures are different and they are then they must behave and interact differently. We should favour the sorts of immigrants who do well over here. Why not have immigration policy that works for everyone?

[@ManDuderGuy]

+Owen Hah! Rathur intristing poynt abowt spelling!

[@kentnordland138]

Shakespeare gave us Julius Caesar. Shakespeare in the Park gave us a presidential assassination wish. Ceasar was a dictator. Trump was elected. The left wanted Hillary, with all her baggage, and can't deal with the fact she was a flawed candidate, who may be facing Federal charges. God, I hope so.

[@kentnordland138]

Growing up in Chicago, I remember neighborhoods. Little Italy, China town, Germantown, Jew Town, (a marketplace, where one could buy almost anything), and Latin neighborhoods. None of which were "no go" zones. Yes, people like to be amongst their own. However, they still assimilated. They were proud Americans and never considered donning an explosive vest, or driving a truck into a crowd, or shooting up a gay bar in Florida or an office gathering in San Bernadino. Theodore Roosevelt’s ideas on Immigrants and being an AMERICAN in 1907. “In the first place, we should insist that if the immigrant who comes here in good faith becomes an American and assimilates himself to us, he shall be treated on an exact equality with everyone else, for it is an outrage to discriminate against any such man because of creed, or birthplace, or origin. But this is predicated upon the person’s becoming in every facet an American, and nothing but an American … There can be no divided allegiance here. Any man who says he is an American, but something else also, isn’t an American at all. We have room for but one flag, the American flag … We have room for but one language here, and that is the English language … and we have room for but one sole loyalty and that is a loyalty to the American people.” Theodore Roosevelt 1907

[@BigBoom92]

I visited Amsterdam last summer and the whole time I was there I had a great saddness within me seening so few Dutch people. The great city's of Europe are shell's of what use to be. I as a European (Irish) am gutted at what has become of the greatest city's on the planet. please if you are thinking of visiting Ireland, do not waste your hard earned money visiting Dublin. Go to the countryside if you want the "Irish" experience.

[@friedrichschopenhauer2900]

Kevin Fleming Yes, I'm really getting sick of that nonsense.

[@mauigirlz9387]

My kid wants to attend UCD. I never thought I would be terrified for my child to go to our ancestral home. Even trips to Europe are simply not practical. It’s simply not safe.

[@corinne1691]

I spent time working in Europe 20 years ago, was able to spend time all over Ireland, Amsterdam, Paris, Munich, London and U.K. countryside and I wanted so much to take my two teenage boys there. I fear that time has passed.

[@kanwarpuri4162]

Douglas is brilliant and foresighted. Wesren nation must take his advise to save what is left of Europe.

[@mar91169]

These two men are amongst the most respected by me.... we really do need more straight talkers like them!

[@apricity7688]

"If you import the world, you import the worlds problems." Such a logical quote.

[@carllafong8360]

Great interview; I really enjoyed it. It was refreshing to watch two intelligent, witty people discuss such weighty issues at length. My nervous system can no longer stand the soundbite interview where the host constantly interrupts or the guest has little more to offer than bumper sticker slogans. Thanks!

[@american37]

I can not even imagine a soft landing for Europe.

[@gulfcitylibrarian5801]

american37 no, it seems as if the only option is bloodshed worse than world war 2

[@headlibrarian1996]

I think the scenario presented in the novel Caliphate by Tom Kratman (which had to be published as science fiction because nobody else would publish it) is the most likely one. I don't Europeans have the stones anymore to do the required bloodshed.

[@Fisher2291]

Head Librarian I think that is sad but true. I think it is partly a lake of balls, but also what would the young be fighting for? You are not fighting for the Britain of 1939, you are laying your life down for a place that doesn't believe in its self. The people may stand up, but they will need to be rallied under a some kind of neo-nationalism. Either that or we all capitulate. Very hard pill to swallow.

[@dm-gq5uj]

@@Fisher2291 I can more easily imagine millennials sheepishly converting en masse than I can imagine them fighting for a country and culture they have grown up believing has no value. And these "strong feminists" fall apart when a guy spreads his legs on a bus. They're going to face down Islamists who tell them to cover their heads and wear a sack?

[@jhgosnell]

Got to teach our kids about our traditions and culture...no one else will.

[@sdleon1609]

I have been asking my French girlfriend (who now lives in US) for the last couple of years how she feels about this huge change in their culture and lifes, back home, and for the whole time she insisted that it's fine! The French are so proud and love their country so much, they would never allow for what I was insinuating to happen!?! Now she is in shock!! For me it's been excruciating to watch this train wreck happen and everyone around wearing rose colored glasses and be ignorant, while they act offended!

[@Orson2u]

People prefer to be small minded and nice to being brave Truth-tellers. Like Murray.

[@PS4sos21]

I can't believe we lost Sweden to this hateful disgusting political system..So lets see, how many countries now have we lost?.. Syria. Egypt. Sudan. Libya. Lebanon. Jordan. Afghanistan. Anatolia. Yemen.. Help me out, I am sure there are more, but I cannot think of them at the moment.. Well the countries that I name were all Christian bar one and that was Afghanistan which was Buddhist/hindu and a mix of a few other pagan non hostile faiths..

[@gjb797]

UB40Music Iran..

[@stellarjayatkins4749]

Ironically Syria from what I can tell was not explicit anti-Christian. At least not under Assad. Many Christians in Syria still love and support Assad. Which begs the question... if Assad is trying to deal with extreme Islamic groups in his nation... why are we in the west still trying to remove him? Ponder that one.

[@PS4sos21]

Syria was ruled by the Romans.. Which was a Christian empire near the end of it's reign..

[@MrBoogiePope]

Yes, Syria, Egypt, etc were non Islamic in the 70s and have been forcefully converted to Islam in the last decades, it's not like these regions were at the pinnacle of world civilization while being Islamic and for centuries while NW Europe was filled with peoples cloaked in wild beasts and using magic books as medicine.

[@PS4sos21]

What are you talking about? They were Christian, Jewish and Zoroastrian/pagan for hundreds of years before Islam murdered it's way out of Arabia.. And the only reason why the 'Muslim world' saved all of the knowledge that was left behind in the cities during and after the invasions and also it's because of the people who were actually running the day to day operations of the cities and nations.. They were of course the captured Christians, Jews and other literate humans who could actually read.. (These capture people ie; slaves, who were the secretaries, managers, supervisors and the like which is why the 'islamic' empire was successful) When the Muslims came they mostly preferred to live outside the cities because they were nomadic.. It is all they knew how to live.. They were not city people and could not stand the city life.

[@doctorbritain9632]

Douglas needs to enter politics, roll up his sleeves and start banging heads together. Writing books, articles and talking about it just isn't enough.

[@anthonysams9404]

Disagree, people like David Murray need to keep doing what they are doing. Hopefully they will educate enough of the voting public to create change at the ballot box. In the end its down to the voting populous to create change as they did with Brexit (or at least have tried to do)

[@jjosephs6521]

"Into my heart an air that kills From yon far country blows: What are those blue remembered hills, What spires, what farms are those? That is the land of lost content, I see it shining plain, The happy highways where I went And cannot come again." - A. E. Housman. 🏴󠁧󠁢󠁥󠁮󠁧󠁿

[@quatervois7966]

@@anthonysams9404 Agreed. People like Douglas Murray are far more valuable, writing books, giving lectures, and doing interviews. Informing people.

[@JEROMEGELB]

Great to see my two favourite public intellectual commentators taking a breather from "the war" and regrouping in this insightful broadcast.

[@Skeptique]

Wonderful talk. It's nice to see two educated and articulate people standing up for the value of our nations and the greatness that built them.

[@jstanley011]

What blew the heart out of Europe was World War I and World War II. The lights went out in 1914 and never came back on.

[@negationf6973]

Japan (imperialist power) - 98% Japanese Ireland (victim of imperialism) - 83% Irish Let that sink in, before liberals tell you that Europeans deserve this because of imperialism.

[@TsarChasmSpasm]

I love Douglas Murray, he never bangs on about being gay. It's almost as if (and bear with me here, this is a wacky concept) it doesn't...define him.

[@mikec4204]

It is astounding that both of these guys are thought of by the average person as being awful racists, when in fact they are both some of the most rational thinkers out there, ones who will be looked back on years from now as sages who were ignored until it was too late to save civilization.

[@IronFist.]

The show I've been waiting for! Thanks Mark and Douglas!

[@Jonnie-Falafel]

Just read 'The Strange Death of Europe' ... brilliant book pulling many threads of Douglas' arguments over the past decade.

[@ninerocks]

The best show not on television!

[@albertannationalist]

Murray's comment about the thousandths or millionth Afghan reminds me of the Rowan Atkinson bit about immigration where he says "I'm not against other cultures: I like curry. But we already have the recipe..."

[@natebaker2571]

The best free thinkers on the planet. Period

[@EmperorsNewWardrobe]

NATHAN BAKER, what about Sam Harris?

[@Pithead]

How about Jared Taylor?

[@Saskobest]

Ben Shapiro

[@GrantLenaarts]

Jordan B Peterson

[@MrOdinic]

words words words... books and interviews... but nothing changes... it won't come down to politicians... or well educated, well spoken travelers of the globe to solve this... it's going to change when the ordinary meat and potatoes men have had enough and lay down the monkey wrench and pick up a weapon and fight...

[@domzbu]

Neal Van Baelenberghe without these insightful voices no one would grasp the true magnitude of the issue.

[@randomVHStat]

A couple of tossers trying to talk others into doing the fighting for them so they can sit at home counting their money. As for the "ordinary meat and potatoes men", they are where they always are - in the pub, whinging. It doesn't seem to me like there's any real will for change. As Murray says at 54:40, no-one cares.

[@greyandblue4323]

Or perhaps not that no-once cares but that generally people are terrified of the outcome of 'doing' anything...there is a general feeling amongst many that the authorities, the police, are no longer on our side and indeed go out of their way to protect Muslims.

[@Kabodanki]

things change, there's no conversation thougt, people feel not representated by their politician, people quit voting and go to the extreme, no reasonable common ground can be found. It's too late, Civil war is on its way. Post modernist think the modern world is secured, it's not, the republic is dying

[@Simon-nv5zj]

Interesting way you put it. While these two have been making their case publicly for years, you seem to be implying its useless. Or perhaps you are one of these whinging ordinary pub dwelling meat and potatoes men? Being informed is important, its why I listen to these two gents.

[@azlondon]

Love both of them! ❤️

[@americanwoman8967]

If single incomes were high enough to raise a family , many more couples would have large families. They hit the nail on the head.

[@MattieK09]

Mark Steyn is one of the few political commentators that you could have a beer with. The guy is a legend

[@brendanburgess2071]

It's good to see Douglas enjoying himself talking to someone that understands the issues and can go back and forth

[@notinterested100]

Hey Mark love the show! Having the conversations we increasingly cannot have in work and with family. Not for long though.

[@GrowLLLTigeRRR]

I dread it but I am going to have to grow a pair and begin having these discussions myself.

[@amirasmith5133]

Many of us can see this and do our own small bit in fighting it, but we don't have a platform and our livelihoods are at risk. The key problem is that our governments, police and judiciary are against these people who are being criticised for not speaking up! That is something that needs to be addressed!

[@meatwise]

That is why the west will lose. Because the people who can see the danger will not risk their livelihoods. The irony being that they will eventually lose far more.

[@Yesica1993]

About 26 minutes in, he's really getting to the heart of the question. You are never going to even want to preserve your culture if you've been raised from childhood being told by schools, the news media, the entertainment industry and sometimes even your family and friends that 1) all cultures are equally good and 2) your own culture has not only never contributed anything worthwhile in history, but that your culture has been the source of all the evil in the world! We're talking about generations raised with this poisoned thinking, both in Europe and in America as well. No wonder people don't want to preserve Western culture or individual countries! They've completely internalized the lie that we are NOTHING but evil.

[@samhooper]

So glad I watched this. Most profitable 60 minutes I have spent today, hearing two intelligent people talk frankly about an issue which our political leaders and bien pensant commentariat would rather sweep under the carpet.

[@Shagrat65]

Two of the best.

[@gringao6209]

Superb interview. I think Mr. Murray, despite his spoken optimism, really knows the score. The Left and its handmaidens will not allow the discussion he rightly insists must happen, to actually take place. The problem will get worse out of a malignant neglect and, eventually, we will see more and more people like Anders Breivik taking matters into their own hands. People will correctly conclude that, if the State will not perform its most basic function and provide physical security to me and my loved ones, we will provide it ourselves, even in aggressive fashion.

[@stellarjayatkins4749]

It's not just the left. It's the Torries too. Massive numbers of migrants have entered Britain under their watch.

[@MrCliveado]

Gringao that's the future I see too. Tommy Robinson has spoken of that at length

[@jash3250]

Europe, I appeal to you as an American, of German ancestry, *please* don't let these Islamists destroy our shared ancestral homeland. The west is the pinnacle of modern civilization. Europe is beautiful. Your cultures are beautiful - *Be proud*! You owe these "migrants" nothing, you have no reason to feel guilt. Imagine if the roles were reversed? Would millions of Europeans/Westerners be welcomed into​ any Muslim society with open arms? Would their governments support us with their tax dollars? No. I hope your governments and people come to their senses, before it's too late. Although, I fear it already might be. Godspeed.

[@liebeslied1156]

🙏💜

[@abigailslade3824]

Thanks bud am hoping we sort it too

[@Guillhez]

Europe gave up on the concept of beauty in early 20th century, when modern art became a thing

[@AvihooI]

The thing I find most amazing is that they do this talk and they speak so calmly and humorously. It's just their style which is lovely. However, they're literally talking about what could potentially lead to a civil war in 10-20 years from now unless it is addressed NOW. If it doesn't lead to a civil war, then that's even worse - it means modern Europe as we know it will be gone.

[@conor3361]

I'm only about 2 thirds through Douglas' book, so this is serving as a useful recap of some of the important points, with a Mark Steyn flavoured cherry on top.

[@maureen1685]

It was a delight to listen to these two articulate and well-informed men.

[@vogue43]

"You're in the bondage dungeon and you suddenly realize there is no safe word" brilliant :D

[@OwassoYankeyGardenRailway]

I’m a big fan of Mark Stein, and I appreciate Douglas Murray’s asking such important questions.

[@yuzuchuhai880]

Awesome interview, Mark! Been watching both your and Douglas' videos on youtube for sometime now. I fully agree with both of you - mass immigration has been having significant detrimental effects on major western cities. I live in Vancouver, and here it's a different problem: mass immigration coupled with speculative real estate buying by foreign investors. Of course the government up until now has largely dragged its feet or denied such a thing has been happening, until last year when a foreign buyers tax was introduced. Well, that government has been kicked to the curb and now we have a new one. Ultimately, I believe that mass immigration and foreign speculative buying of real estate have destroyed the formerly quaint and laid-back nature Vancouver once was. Now, it's an non-stop construction site with cheap leaky condos, endless traffic, and multi-million dollar monster McMansions, luxury vehicles, and a lotta depressed-looking people. Very sad!

[@wolfwind1]

Brutal. Wonderful. Great interview. Thank you both to Douglas and Mark.

[@IzabelParis]

I'd like to hear Soros mentioned in any conversation about uncontrolled migration.

[@taaviauri3729]

I have douglas talk about Soros...and what Soros doin

[@LuchaLibertaria]

I'm currently reading his book The Strange Death of Europe. He briefly mentions Soros and how Soros funded RefugeesWelcome charities but he doesnt get any deeper than that. His book generally consists of arguments against neoliberal multiculturalism and how it doesnt work, so its useful to counter the arguments of white middleclass liberals. The thing is while your average white liberal is blue-pilled, international elites know exactly what they are doing. His book is a good start to learn about the migration crisis, but you certainly need to read more ( esp. about Kalergi Plan) if you wanna get red-pilled.

[@maxdecphoenix]

i think what Douglas tries to do is dry up the ponds that Soros can fish from.

[@Pithead]

Barbara Lerner Spectre.

[@MichaelRitger]

You are right. These forces are bigger than individuals or any small group. People gravitate towards top-down theories rather than grapple with complex problems requiring introspection. What is happening has something to do with weakness, degeneracy, and the perversion of our altruistic side. If forces like Islam are acting upon us, we are letting them.

[@StJamichael]

Steyn: "Can violence be avaoided?" Murray: "I hope so." Both men know that violence is now unavoidable, but they don't want to look as though they're advocating violence. Correctly predicting the future based on current trends is not advocating violence, anymore than Raspail was xenophobic for correctly predicting mass immigration would swamp Europe.

[@friedrichschopenhauer2900]

StJamichael I'm all for it at this point.

[@deathbycognitivedissonance5036]

Exactly

[@lukgray2016]

These things exist on the embers of Christian thoughts I love this guy.

[@wrongthink3885]

The sad thing about watching this, is I can only like it once! Another quality upload.

[@michaelcrawford5638]

Unquestionably the most important interview of the year from the two most important journalists of our age.

[@Siegetower]

I helped stop a snatch and grab robbery on the RER train while on holiday in France. We were coming back from the Palace of Versaille. A very well organised gang of Africans, straight out of Kinshasa.

[@caribstu]

Thoroughly enjoyed listening in on this conversation

[@EmperorsNewWardrobe]

27:01 "What seemed to be a sort of kink turned out to be fatal" "In other words you're in the bondage dungeon and you suddenly realise there is no safe word" Absolutely pissed myself. This is gold, great delivery too

[@serarthurdayne9490]

Murray is a member of an incredibly elite strata of public intellectual. Like Hitchens, Peterson of Harris, the man is a titan in both honesty, integrity and pure clarity of thought and expression. He’s a gift to all of us who refuse to be obedient sheep.

[@graemeromans9374]

This is not an accident. Multiculturalism was always doomed and yet governments of all Western countries signed up for it to virtue signal. This was backed by the UN which uses its benign front to propagandise to every municipality in every Western country, calling for and getting bipartisanship, so that it is never discussed. The UN has played a greater role than is commonly realised through its promotion of International agreements via these internecine channels to all levels of bureaucracy. Its aim, as with the Lima agreement, is global wealth redistribution. Population redistribution was always part of it. Tell the women from puberty they must have a career and babies/families are no longer mentioned in high school. Create a lower birth rate and then talk up immigration as a solution. Hard to believe it worked. No James, there IS a conspiracy.

[@capoman1]

Such a treat to watch Douglas any time; especially special to hear Douglas in company that agrees with him; usually we only hear Douglas reply to disagreements; so nice to hear Douglas get to have a conversation that lets him breathe and not be on defense.

[@HovisSteve]

Heavens know why it took me so long to get around to this, but damn was it worth it! Depressing (as reality often is), but most certainly worth it.

[@BMN1991Nystrom]

Murray’s book scared the hell out of me. I think multiculturalism has become our latest attempt at utopian idealism, but we’re so caught up in it that we can’t see that the liberal elements of our societies have become completely unhinged from reality. The conservatives that would have told them to slow down have all been shamed into silence. We are being propelled forward by zealous ideologues who’ve managed to marginalize dissent in each and every society by means of political correctness. Caution truly has been thrown to the wind. But despite me being a liberal and a humanist, whenever I voice my concern about this I am immediately labeled racist. Here in Norway we’re close to discarding any sense of national identity. When asked what norwegian values are, the response is immediately “multiculturalism and diversity”... and if anyone tries to trace our identity back to its complex historical origin, they are told that such a thing is “too vague to define,” or that “such a discussion could be offensive to minorities.” There’s something so twisted about all of this. Multiculturalism has ceased being a noble aspiration and instead become a suicidal descent into yet another vision of utopia. If we truly cared about modelling our societies in such a fashion and actually making it work, then we would have slowed down and been a lot smarter about it.

[@Paul.Morgan]

I have the same feeling here in Britain. Some how we've got to support each other across Europe, respect our European heritage, respect our European identities. Patriotic Europeans have a common enemy in this soulless borderless multiculturalism. The first step in defeating it is to admit we have a problem. Our enemies will use the attack word 'racist' to try to shut down this debate but these same enemies are the ones promoting identity politics for everyone else except us!

[@Philiptanzer]

I *loved* this, just loved it. Thanks so much to both for entertaining and enlightening!

[@ladyrotha5420]

*Wonderfully civilized chat, with wonderfully civilized Men. Thank you for this!*

[@authorofmyownthoughts4827]

That was good. Thanks Steyn. I am looking forward to reading the book; I bought 2 copies so could give one away. They should be arriving finally this week; I am anticipatory.

[@thebobbs6999]

My two favourite clear minded, fearless, outspoken and often scathingly humorous commentators on the suicidal madness that the West continues to indulge itself in. Listening to the two of them together, it doesn't get any better.

[@richardseaman8653]

I am 100% on the left, Liverpudlian, thatcher hating, save the NHS, tax the rich more socialist. But every time I her Douglas speak, I agree with him, If I am being honest I worry about immigration and what is happening to the uk. What is more concerning is that most of our politicians won't even admit there is an issue.

[@davidrobby]

Richard Seaman Well enjoy your caliphate lefty.

[@thebigredwagon]

You need a red pill. Read The Evolution of Everything by Matt Ridley.

[@pippi5000]

Welp... the Left is 100% about power and control over others. Your stated positions against Thatcher (who saw Labour as crippling), for the NHS ("fear" is their currency), and taxing the rich (success is theft!) lines up perfectly with your immigration situation. Of course your politicians notice it. You're being controlled. You've espoused your allegiance to being controlled. You like being controlled. Why are you suddenly changing your stripes?

[@BrokenSoulsAlliance]

Seems like you only took half of the red pill, it's time you took the other half too. The left is responsible for mass immigration which started during the Tony Blair premiership and has been unstoppable ever since. The knock on effects of 10 million plus immigrants are a chronic shortage of housing, shortage of school places, extra demands on the NHS, burgeoning state welfare system and domestic terrorism.

[@judithsmith8014]

Let's hope you don't have a daughter to "donate" to keep the Muslims happy.

[@UKtoUSABrit]

These guys are fantastic. So much knowledge, insight and perspective........and common sense. This interview should be required listening for all of Europe's politicians.

[@b.gailcooper7530]

Alexander Solzhenitsyn said it best: We are in this dreadful position "because [Western] Man has forgotten God." (see his Templeton lecture, online). And "cultural" Christianity won't cut it: only the one true Faith will do.

[@Mkrmnxn]

Two heavy hitters. They both have the seemingly rare combination of enough sense to see what is going on, enough backbone to stand up to it, and enough intellect and knowledge to actually talk about it in ways that can not be ignored or shut down.

[@chrize1]

1. Close the border and redirect all resources towards foreign aid 2. Capture all terrorists and their sympathizers 3. Strenghthen European culture(s) 4. Reclaim control of the media 5. Begin repatriation program

[@aalb1970]

Foreign aid will only make matters worse. Also why should we pay for other countries’ irresonsible family planning? Let them deal with their own problems.

[@abigailslade3824]

Other than giving foreign aid I agree, we need to spend our money sorting out our country before we give so much money away I mean ffs we have just been through 10 years of austerity.

[@careym3901]

These guys are fighting with the most important weapons they have, their words! It's up to the rest of us to take up the struggle to stop this madness!

[@robg71]

Diversity translates to "No go areas"

[@nasussmith8839]

Love Douglas Murray! As an atheist I want to protect the Christian country I live in. First step hard Brexit!

[@fearsomefan1]

Well done man.

[@donnieholly739]

Mr. Steyn you are a treasure! Thank you for this interview and a chance to listen once again to a sane voice.

[@Mediumal]

The reason we have become so afraid to talk about things that matter is we have developed what Murray describes as a strange reluctance to speak the truth in case it offends.

[@chapachuu]

Douglas is the only intellectual and rational Conservative perspective I have come across online. I appreciate his perspective and the work he does.

[@Andersson203]

Swedish culture takes a lot of influence from America and that is where Swedish post-colonial guilt comes from, as far as I can tell. But the main problem in Sweden is that people think of themselves as very righteous and morally superior to everyone else. This is a self image that is constantly reinforced both by the media and the politicians. Some even go so far as to call Sweden a moral superpower that is going to show the rest of the world how to be good and righteous because deep down everyone wants to be as good and selfless as Swedes. Recently this self image has been severely shattered as the reality has started to set in. However a lot of people still cling to the hope that the politicians know what they are doing and that they wouldn't just enact policy that ruin our country. But as far as I have seen the politicians aren't really aware of what is going on in Sweden because they seem to be insulated from all opposing opinions. I mean when the Poles refused to take in "their fair share" of refugees politicians went crazy and started accusing them of being racists and not "pulling their load" etc. For context: According to the official statistics and census bureau Swedes constituted 79% of the population in 2002 but by 2016 this figure had fallen to 69% so I'm pretty sure I'm going to live long enough to see the day when Swedes are no longer in the majority in Sweden.

[@twoguys6820]

Thanks for the wonderful show, Mark. Please do it more often.

[@Beaglefaust]

Being kind to the cruel when taken to extremes results in cruelty to the kind. See modern Europe.

[@Cordelia4219]

The thing I reproach Murray for is his tip-toeing around the issue.

[@cliffordhatton4444]

With the greatest respect to these two fine intellects, they're only saying what millions of bog-standard Europeans have been saying for decades: "There's too many foreigners"! Thing is, they're no longer just foreign but actually quite alien...as we are to them! I can't IMAGINE what the attraction is.

[@jappiejojo777]

I'm going to take the optimist view. A prominent intellect like Douglas Murray taking our side is a sign we might have turned a corner.

[@Payne1971]

That was really great. Interesting and engaging with fascinating points made by both Douglas and Mark. Thanks for making it happen. With the BBC so biased in it's coverage and agenda promoting, it's a real relief to be able to come to KZbin and find commentary and observation from the likes of Tucker Carlson, Mark Steyn, Douglas Murray, Gavin McInnes and Paul Joseph Watson.

[@liaparma7112]

Absolutely gorgeous!!! Mark, your being able to keep at least 20 references as to what Douglas had written , was stunning investigative Hosting!! You allowed Douglas to shine! and your softly leading him was sublime in that his brilliance shone through. All of his ,"insights" were jewels of thought provoking questions I had to answer for myself!! thank you so very much!!

[@TimBitts649]

A Fatal Flaw in Feminism: I was watching a Cassie Jaye video recently, on a woman named Sarah, who was talking about Jordan Peterson's University of Toronto, where right now, 33% of students are males, and 67% are female. And this trend is global. All universities are headed this way. Feminists didn't seem to think, this is a problem. Here's why this sort of trend, pushed by feminists, will destroy them: Women all want to marry up and across economic and dominance hierarchies. (Jordan Peterson has explained this, numerous times) Women at university want to marry men from university....they don't want to marry men who are lower than them in economic status. Most women at university want a boyfriend. But feminism pushed women into a large majority at university, creating a HUGE social problem for women......there are not enough men at school, and feminists naturally are dishonest about it....not even admitting it's a problem. Do the math: At the University of Toronto....the most politically correct university around...University Enrollment is now 67% female and 33% male....which means, for every 1,000 students, there are 330 men and 670 women....for the sake of simplicity assume most people will marry or at least pair bond with the opposite sex, at least at some point in their lives...and people generally do so, when they are young and roughly university age. Assume that every one of those 670 women are looking for a mate...most are. Assume they all find a guy at university. So what happens to the human pair-bonding math....for women and men...once women become the majority at university?....women are hurt....badly. How so? This new feminist paradise we now live in, means a shortage of 340 men for women at university....670-330 = 340 men,....who are not there to marry these women. They are the men, that feminists could care less about. Feminists don't see the gender enrollment gap as a problem for men or women, because they don't think logically, because they have been brainwashed by feminism, and because most feminists don't care about men....feminists are callous and gynocentric. And all this callousness gynocentrism leads to social blindness, which ironically ends up creating problems, for women. This female dominance at university is a very new thing, is happening everywhere, and the devastation it will cause for feminism, is coming down the train track. And my numbers are assuming the men at university only date women at university....and that is unlikely because, while women only marry across and up dominance hierarchies, men on the other hand marry across and down dominance hierarchies. Meaning? Meaning the girl taking the sociology or economics degree at university is competing with all the other women in society, for the economically dominant university men. That cute girl at Safeway, with a hot body, can easily out-compete an average looking woman at university, when it comes to finding an Alpha Male who goes to university. So the situation is even worse than the severe male shortage of 340 men, per thousand women. Money makes men more attractive, but it doesn't do the same thing for women...that's what feminists don't know. And people who go to university usually end up making a good living. A men shortage at university means there is a shortage of high earning men, for these women to marry. I'm already seeing this play out, in younger women who in times past, would have easily found a man. Now? Competition is too tough....and they lose. Women think that money will make them more attractive, as life partners. It won't. It only raises their standards, and when they raise their standards, they disqualify a large segment of the male population. So success at university will come at a very very steep price: they will be priced out of the marriage market. Personally I know a very, very cute woman of 34....a few inches from hitting The Wall....hard. In her prime I thought she should enter beauty pageants. Now? One or two bad relationship choices and she is looking ahead to a life alone. She has good genes and will likely live to 90.....alone....and childless. The life cycle of a woman is far different than the life cycle of a man. What feminists are not telling women is that most of their lives, they will NOT be young and beautiful....they'll be old. And most of their lives they can't bear children, and if they don't find someone when they are young, they are very likely to live alone most of their lives. Human pair bonding evolved in evolution to make women their most attractive in their 20s. Feminists tell them to avoid breeding and the most important thing for a young woman, is to stick your nose in a book for ten years. And when women spend their healthiest years competing with other women and men for money, they are doing so against borrowed time, and too much competition. They will lose. It's in the cards. Time is not on women's side. It's on men's sides. Men can wait. Women can't. We have never in history tried this social experiment of delayed pair bonding and uninhibited sexuality, and female economic dominance. It doesn't fit the pattern of evolution that has been successful to this point: young pair bonding, restrained sexuality and female economic dependence and inter-dependence, with males. I wonder why evolution has not tried our pattern before. My guess is, part of the reason is: it won't work. It's going to screw up....royally. I doubt very much that humans can sustain a civilization along our new patterns, for very long. For one thing, in this new pattern, human breeding drops dramatically and any society that adopts feminism will quickly disappear from history, based on demographics alone. Already, we see the real world results starting to come in, and it's not pleasant for most women. Since opening up with unrestrained human sexuality, pushed by feminists: The math I have heard is that 80% of all women compete for roughly 30% of all men....And this mean about 70% of male are effectively pushed out of evolution and long term mating with females. Question: can society stay stable, with most males having no investment in the genetic future, no investment in family or stable long term pair bonding with females? My guess? No.....we will collapse.....most men now have no reason even to support social stability, and if we are to have social stability and feminism, we will need a fascist state, with technological fascism and control of non-breeding men, by the elites, to keep non-breeders in line, for the safety of the feminist elites....male and female. That's long term, but today: In our new feminist society, the men at the top are having a great time because of this, lots of sex, and are highly desired by women, but most men are getting royally screwed by this new math, and women don't realize it yet, but they are losing, big time, by this feminist math.....because: Women go to university in part because it puts them around high status men they hope to attract. Trouble is women are now in such large numbers at university, thanks to feminism, that now women must viciously compete against all the other women at university, for the few guys that are there, and women at university must now also compete with all non-university women, for these same men. ...women supported feminism, so: you asked for it, ladies. If you go look up marriage rates, we are now at an all time historical low, and marriage is now a quaint relic reserved for the top income performers, and for most people in advanced countries like Sweden, Japan and America, marriage has already stopped being a functional reality, or organizing principle of their lives, thanks to feminists ending normal human pair bonding. So the way this new feminism will play out is the death of marriage for most women....and men. Since women spend most of their lives essentially old, by nature's standards of desirability, this will turn into a disaster, I predict. Am I right? Time will tell.

[@Kevo216666]

These two... what can go wrong? Great minds - great communicators. Thanks for posting.

[@DiamondMind]

Wonderful talk.

[@MrChohalia]

During the Danish "Cartoon Crises", I remember Geert Wilders saying, "It's quarter to twelve now" pointing out how little time we had to act against the Muslim immigration. It's quarter past twelve now, if not later .

[@blackfender100]

Most Americans ancestors Migrated from Europe.Europe is giving up it's own culture Americans do not want to.People who do not want to adapt to our culture have no business coming here.

[@samcarter2371]

What culture do Americans have? Hot dogs, and toothless hillbillies?

[@giladlevi-kopelman93]

It is exiting to see how douglas has evolved through the years into the most dominant voice of reason regarding the current challenges the west is facing

[@antlese]

Great conversation Mark.