The Master, his Emissary & the Meaning Crisis, Iain McGilchrist & John Vervaeke

Iain McGilchrist is the celebrated author of the revolutionary work, The Master and His Emissary, all about how the structure of our brains and perception creates a divided world, and has a central role in our struggle to perceive reality accurately.
Professor John Vervaeke is the creator of the groundbreaking series Awakening From the Meaning Crisis, a grand sweep of the trajectory of western thought.
This is the first time they have dialogued with each other about their work.
If you enjoyed this, check out Rebel Wisdom's films with Iain:
Certainty and flow, Iain McGilchrist: • Certainty and flow, Ia...
'Jordan Peterson and I', Iain McGilchrist: • 'Jordan Peterson and I...
And John:
John Vervaeke: Jordan Peterson & the Meaning Crisis: • John Vervaeke: Jordan ...
After the Meaning Crisis, John Vervaeke: • After the Meaning Cris...

[@RebelWisdom]

This film was recorded a few weeks ago, before the current crisis began - so if you want a break from Pandemic content - enjoy!

[@JayDhillonschan]

Would like to hear what Doshin Roshi has to say about the crisis.

[@bush0165]

Love this video - one of my favorite Rebel Wisdom videos yet! Next time try to encourage the participants to wear headphones perhaps so that when the other speaks they don't cut the mic of the other because of the echo cancellation of their computers.

[@hidwar]

will this be uploaded to podcasts

[@MH-ln6pv]

Thanks for posting. Great that you let them just riff.

[@jayfoges1482]

certainty doesn't exist. What an absurd statement

[@williamkoscielniak7871]

I read the Master and His Emissary and just finished the first half of "The Matter With Things". I can't be grateful enough that I found this mans works, as I believe he is as great a philosopher as anyone alive right now. Many have seen the world in similar ways (Nietzsche, Heidegger, Heraclitus, Whitehead, Shelling, etc.) but Ian is using hard data from the neurological sciences to dismantle scientific materialism. It's beautiful.

[@50palmyra]

Hands down without a doubt my favorite Rebel Wisdom conversation to date. Thank you for your service to humanity.

[@josaelizondo6773]

I had to come back to this. I love how Vervaeke handles what could be potential disagreement. His ability to clarify and articulate concepts and ideas is extraordinary.

[@MrHwaynefair]

Absolutely one of the top 5 conversations on the web! Thanks for making this available - and PLEASE host more conversations between these two!

[@chriskenney4377]

Rebel Wisdom - this is exquisite. You have put the two most dynamic thinkers of this era that I have ever seen and heard. What a joy. I am glad you accomplished this dialogue.

[@ianburns6218]

Wow I was standing today in the dark toolshed. The sun was shining outside and through the crack at the top of the door there came a sunbeam. From where I stood that beam of light, with the specks of dust floating in it, was the most striking thing in the place. Everything else was almost pitch black. I was seeing the beam, not seeing things by it. Then I moved, so that the beam fell on my eyes. Instantly the whole previous picture vanished. I saw no toolshed, and (above all) no beam. Instead I saw, framed in the irregular cranny at the top of the door, green leaves moving on the branches of a tree outside and beyond that, ninety-odd million miles away, the sun. Looking along the beam, and looking at the beam are very different experiences. CS Lewis

[@peten5426]

In animated form! kzbin.info/www/bejne/pYmkiICaYs1sbM0

[@ToriKo_]

Praise the Sun

[@rdrzalexa]

John looks like a kid on Christmas lol. Good for him! I'm loving this convo!

[@eefgilbert9468]

rodriguez alex he mostly does. 😁

[@patrickwagner2978]

“Science takes things apart to see how they work; but religon puts things together to see what they mean.” [Jonathan Sacks]

[@yoganandavalle]

Spirituality I would say

[@yoganandavalle]

This is too binary

[@patrickwagner2978]

@@yoganandavalle "There are two sides to every issue: one side is right and the other is wrong, but the middle is always evil. The man who is wrong still retains some respect for truth, if only by accepting the responsibility of choice. But the man in the middle is the knave who blanks out the truth in order to pretend that no choice or values exist, who is willing to sit out the course of any battle, willing to cash in on the blood of the innocent or to crawl on his belly to the guilty, who dispenses justice by condemning both the robber and the robbed to jail, who solves conflicts by ordering the thinker and the fool to meet each other halfway. In any compromise between food and poison, it is only death that can win. In any compromise between good and evil, it is only evil that can profit. In that transfusion of blood which drains the good to feed the evil, the compromise is the transmitting rubber tube.” [Ayn Rand]

[@justinnimmo9810]

Ayn Rand was remarkably foolish. That passage being a fine example of intellectualised ignorance.

[@patrickwagner2978]

@@justinnimmo9810 And i'm sure you are going to explain exactly why she and that quote are intellectually ignorant using your dizzying intellect.

[@wombat6177]

“We don’t have different words for different kinds of knowing ...” and “...We even treat religious systems as if they are systems of belief ...which is a serious misrepresentation of what’s happening with religion”...thank you, praise the lord and hallelujah I’ve been thinking this for years and it feels so affirming to my soul hearing it from you both 💎

[@MatthewJohnCrittenden]

The Master And His Emissary now available on Audible! Grabbed immediately. Looking forward to quality quarantine listening ...

[@MourningTalkShow]

I have wanted this conversation so bad, I almost feel limp as it starts. These two people have been so formational for me.

[@TimeGhost7]

I read Iain's book first, and then watched John's lecture series, and I was using Iain's knowledge to help me grasp what John was talking about. It doesn't surprise me these 2 are in such wide conceptual agreement.

[@dawnspence7781]

Thank you all very much. Deeply needed and appreciated personally.

[@neurojitsu]

Another great conversation. I am reminded of Josh Waitzkin's book The Art of Learning, and his notion of "small circles". The conversation also has echoes of ideas that Joseph Jaworski (who was a friend of the late physicist David Bohm) talks a lot about in his books Synchronicity and Source (ie the source of 'knowing'). Jaworski's basic conclusion is that knowing requires connection to nature, meaning also one's own nature (which is embodied). For those that don't know, Waitzkin was a chess grandmaster who then achieved a supposedly impossible feat: becoming world Tai Chi champion after 2 years of training... as a martial artist, I had always 'understood' that it takes 10 years of internal martial arts practice to achieve the equivalent skill level to black belt in an external martial art - like Karate or one of the external Shaolin Kung Fu styles - in which black belt can ge attained in 3 years. Waitzkin talks about his approach to learning tai chi and makes reference to an idea he calls "small circles" which is a sort of fractal idea, but has interesting likeness to some of this conversation. By choosing to deeply master just a few significant aspects of Tai Chi practice and skill (based on acute, experience-based observation), Josh believes you learn something of the 'whole'. The small circles contain that whole, and so you effective learn of its essence - but not in any deconstructive sense; perhaps that is some sort of discovery of the 'sum' that is more than its parts? And so the suggestion seems to be that learning can transcend experience (of the parts) in some way... On a related note to Daoism, I recently watched a BBC documentary about Confucius. One thing I hadn't realised before was that Confucius taught the value of "practice" in the form of rituals, and made this central to his teachings. He believed that Chinese culture at that time had lost its way, and that simple rituals could be part of the answer to finding their way back... I think rituals are another great example of the sort of practical wisdom discussed here. Fascinating conversation. I didn't know of Vervaeke's work... so this is doubly satisfying!

[@TheJaketone]

John is getting better at presenting his arguments. The religio stuff near the beginning from John was excellent. This conversation is flow. I play music with people every week and this is what flow feels like both in conversation and music.

[@mrsslim9029]

I love music when you hear that flow. It is on another level.

[@yeaown8139]

Thank you Rebel Wisdom, Iain and John for these conversations. These days I feel pretty lost and isolated due to this whole situation. But I find these conversations to be deeply life-giving.

Thx so much for this...have been on a McGilchrist binge the last few days...so great timing.

[@craig6037]

“For where two or three are gathered together in my name, there am I in the midst of them.”

[@DannyMulhernComposer]

I love the energy of this conversation. Both of them have huge insights in their work. Lovely to see them enjoy sharing so much.

[@tegan2mares]

This reciprocal opening is something I look for in my work training horses. I'm someone whose strong stubbornly held intuitive sense has kept me out of institutions, while dedicated to learning what life is teaching me. Also parenting is a process which gives so much education in the area of knowledge, practice and wisdom. Thanks for this, at this fragile time, it's good to feel others thinking on similar lines.

[@scorpiss9]

Cool. I love his book. Never have I ever took so many notes from a single book. I just revised them yesterday again. All the best wishes!

[@wolflarsen3447]

which book?

[@wolflarsen3447]

@Praxis Of Logos OK great, I'll follow your recommendation and get the audio. Thanks

[@advocate1563]

I drowned in that book and then I was reborn

[@sust8n]

What a fantastic conversation! Exemplifies so many good things i wish we saw more of in the world. Many thanks to Rebel Wisdom for hosting it.

[@lydiakapp7286]

What a fantastic conversation between my two favorite thinkers. More please!

[@timsweeney9558]

Great conversation! Thanks Iain, John, David and Alexander. Keep up the great work.

[@thejohndelgado]

Incredible dialogue! I had a deep bubbling up of visceral excitement as these two danced through mindspace

[@dillons2fab]

Definitely one of my favorite videos from you guys, got to have these guests back

[@TheListener01]

Such a great conversation! They both look like they are playing a game and having so much fun to go back and forth. I would love to see them both face to face.

[@rachaelbarraclough1375]

John Vervaeke puts me off with his use of convulated sentences and complicated words. McGilchrist is crystal clear and hence more enjoyable to listen to.

[@helenperala3459]

This was excellent. The communication between the both of you was just right and I got a lot from this, many thanks!

[@PClanner]

Exceptional and inciteful. This is the best of the best and I am very happy to have experienced it. MOAR!!!!

[@nikovacevic]

What an unbelievably rich conversation. Love both of these thinkers.

[@thomasbiom]

David and Ally, this is one of the best videos you guys have put out there. This has the potential to be a series all on its own. Bravo!

[@vidyakara]

Thanks, Rebel Wisdom. I revere both of these guys. I should have subscribed to this channel ages ago. After wishing for such a conversation it was KZbin that suggested it. If they have another conversation I won't miss it. Even though both of them do lots of interviews and videos, there was no sense of either of them just 'going through the motions'. They seemed to really enjoy themselves. Both of them were so present and alive. A joy to watch.

[@taratasarar]

What a wonderful wonderful dialogos - thanks so much!

[@normaodenthal8009]

They’re right about perfectionism being a problem. Reminds me of two pearls of wisdom: firstly, a perfectionist is someone who takes great pains and gives even greater pains to others; secondly, don’t let the perfect be the enemy of the good.

[@advocate1563]

Perfectionism kills dreams.

[@kbeetles]

Two of my favourite thinkers in dialogue..... brilliant!

[@DaveE99]

We need science, reason, intuition, and imagination, in most subjects we are only using 1 or two of these way.

[@aqualityexistence4842]

This is so fabulous. I wish Pirsig was here to agree on so many points.

[@omdangy]

I had a strong sense you'd really appreciate this video! In a funny way it felt to me like the place in which Ian and John met is the place where Pirsig likes to hang out ;)

[@aqualityexistence4842]

@@omdangy Heart!!

[@shiracohenyoga3492]

I love this conversation and the pure excitement and enthusiasm of these two minds meeting and co-discovering like long lost friends! It's like watching two kids who are passionate about the same game/toy/discovery! Wonder-Full! I've watched and listened to both on their won, but here the Spark is alive again :)

[@celt456]

This was such an inspiring, passionate and rich discourse. Many thanks!

[@ConsciousnessWatch]

This was great fun. Enjoyed hearing both the varied and complementary nature of their ideas.

[@pamstoddard6625]

Yay! Two of my favorite thought leaders. Thank you for bringing them together in conversation here! Dr McGillchrist's book The Master and His Emissary is very interesting and so is Dr Vervaeke's Crisis in Meaning Making lecture series on KZbin. Both resonated for sure!

[@macoeur1122]

I became familiar with Ian's work around a year or a year and half ago, and absolutely resonate with it. In some ways it was like a profound "relief" that someone out there not only understood these things but has dedicated his life to getting that information out into the world. I hadn't even heard of John Vervaeke until last week when I saw him on Jordan Peterson's podcast and immediately felt that he was another person I absolutely N E E D E D to hear more from. I've been listening to his "Awakening from the Meaning Crisis" ever since (awesome series)...I'm up to Ep. 22 now I think....and what's SO INTERESTING is that JUST A COUPLE OF DAYS AGO I was at the episode where he goes into the differences between "Having Needs" and "Being Needs" and I was literally thinking... "Hmmm...I wonder how this lines up with Ian McGilchrist's work. It sounds like the "having" mode is likely associated predominantly with the left hemisphere and the "being" mode is likely associated with the right hemisphere....I wonder if these guys know each other....It should would be awesome to see how THEY feel these things intersect." ....and then later that day....I kid you not...this interview just "appeared" in front of me on KZbin....I wasn't even looking for it.....but I've gotta say it feels like "Christmas"!...and I just received the best gift ever...and never in a million years would have expected it. Didn't have time to really put my attention on it at the time, so I saved it until today so I could savor every word. :p Thank you soooo much David, for getting these guys together and sharing the result!

[@bradrandel1408]

David and rebel wisdom thank you so much for your progression and bringing these two together bless all of us🦋🕊 “yes but” not this or that but this and that...

[@palomaIreland]

Fantastic, thank you so much , brought joy to my very sore heart at this time 🙏❤️

[@bfitz1307]

In the exploration of the concept of "perfection" I am reminded of one of the dialogues between J. Krishnamurti and Allan W. Anderson. In fact, Vervaeke's approach to dialogue, dialogos, has reminded me from the very beginning of Krishnamurti. In dialogue 3, On Responsibility, there is an exchange about perfection, practice and the Greek praxis. This is Professor Allan Anderson speaking to Krishnamurti: "I hope I won't annoy you by by talking about words here again. But you know so many of the things that you say cast a light on common terms which for me at least illuminate them. They sound altogether different from the way they used to be heard. For instance, we say in English, don't we, practice makes perfect. Now obviously this can't be the case if we mean by practice we are repeating something. But if you mean by practice the Greek praxis, which is concerned directly with act, not repetition, with act, then to say, makes perfect, doesn't refer to time at all. It's that upon the instance the act is performed, perfection is."

[@ToriKo_]

A note on John’s 4 knowings: 5:16 -Propositional = “fact” based. Formal. Rationalisations after the fact. Believing humans are rational. Ignoring the possibility that argument may have evolved for persuasion, not some sort of hard truth. 5:55 -Procedural: Note how skills have a dimension of fitted-ness, aptness, without necessitating formal propositions or awareness/consciousness. 6:20 Perspectival = qualia and stuff I think? The thing that makes the hard problem hard. Salience landscaping. But then I don’t see how that necessitated hard qualia and conscious(ness)/awareness. I don’t understand why salience landscaping is lumped in with these others. 6:50 -Participatory = attunment. Basic result of an object in the world. Agent-Arena. You are within the world. Dimension of home vs domecide, but I’m not sure if this holds up and makes sense

[@LowenKM]

Iain's become one of my new 'heroes'. Yet throughout his work and the interviews that I've seen, the focus usually seems to be on the current 'problems' of our modern R/L processing 'imbalance', and it's often disappointing not hear more about the 'solutions' and 'alternatives'. And if as Sperry and Gazzaniga's work with Split Brain patients suggests, that we really are of "two minds", often with different interests and Points of View, then what *_should_* be the 'appropriate' relationship between them?

[@JohnRiver490]

Rebel Wilson consistently delivering more umwelt-cracking content!

[@TheCJWemyss]

Brilliant. Beautiful.

[@leedufour]

Thanks Ian, John and David.

[@thesemmens-byrnes6366]

This is absolutely wonderful.

[@richardkok7798]

Absolute gold! I don't really get why not make full use of the screen instead of this laptop trick but the content is so insightful

[@12mankina]

Great conversation

[@greggfiller1]

Ken Wilber writes about how (hyper-) Rationalism and Scientific Materialism (which are generally left hemisphere orientations) mindsets lead to a “disenchantment” of the world, and helped give rise to approaches that attempted to counteract this tendency, approaches among which are neo-Romanticism and some forms of Post-Modernism, which attempted to refocus on the almost purely subjective (vs. objective) experience (generally right hemisphere orientations). I imagine we would ideally want each hemisphere informing the other and avoid extreme reliance on simply one or the other.

[@MHAFOOTBALL]

This is why I give y’all my 💵 every month. So thankful!

[@antonyliberopoulos933]

I enjoyed it. Thank you.

[@jacquin8511]

This is fantastic! If anyone hasn't listened to John or Iain before, I heartily recommend listening to Kurt Jaimungal's very in-depth interviews to get an excellent background for this conversation.

[@markrowe5992]

Thank you. This is very good.

[@karlasears9985]

Yes it was beautiful conversations!!!

[@dalibofurnell]

love the questions

[@TheHeaderOne]

This was one of the best things I've seen

[@billtimmons7071]

My favorite statement ... " Certainty does not exist .. it's a fiction". Two of my heros discussing knowledge and meaning - made my day during a depressing COVID time in history. McGilchrist apparently has new book coming out. My morale just went up. His take on the history of religion and philosophy based on left/right brain processing is informative. We need these kind of videos ... thank you and please bring us more of the same caliber as these two brilliant minds. Much needed ...

[@lediableblanc9399]

How can we be certain it doesn’t exist? Security is a better word though

[@mrsslim9029]

thank you. Great to spend time with other humans in this dialogue. What is love? I thought I knew until my awakening into emptiness. A few weeks later I 'awoke' into unconditional love. That was so clearly not an emotion but as much essence of the true self. Like awakening, once I opened into this, it just is. Very beautiful and releasing from so much fussing that it created freedom from the mind's games. Simple and sublime. Wisdom? It has changed some tendencies, gives me trouble if I do jump in with a comment or advice, I would say I react with mone wisdom than previously. Something I always sought in life.

[@emilylowrance7930]

Mind blowing !!

[@kupkaon]

What a great conversation. I just cannot understand properly when they talk about experiments around 1:03:35. Do you people know any extra resources regarding that? Cheers.

[@geozinfmmicnet]

it was probably this paper Divergent Thinking Styles of the Hemispheres: How Syllogisms Are Solved during Transitory Hemisphere Suppression V. L. DEGLIN AND M. KINSBOURNE

[@frebo2541]

Could it be that this episode is not on spotify?

[@josaelizondo6773]

I have been waiting for this all my life. Lol

[@ljr6723]

Awesome

[@normaodenthal8009]

This discussion has covered so much ground. Absolutely wonderful! Apropos syllogisms, here’s one that came to mind: no dog has six legs; a dog has four more legs than no dog; therefore a dog has ten legs.

[@buddhabillybob]

George Lakoff got me on the 4e train many years ago. I am very glad to see that it is picking up steam!

[@ahigherorderofart]

I would have loved to hear what Iain would have liked to discuss.

[@mntomovi]

Missed this one.

[@elizabethdesousa8290]

fantastic

[@corinnecothern8086]

LOVE!

[@TriggerIreland]

Exhilarating conversation. The elasticity of the word 'we' seems tantalising given that the spectrum of 'we' from 'I' in any context seems to relate to wisdom, such that I/We can nibble at it. But our systems are generally devised by 'I's and deployed upon 'We's.

[@CSDAdvocacy]

I love this channel. More women please!

[@macoeur1122]

What John Was saying at 49.36 about breaking the framing that locks us into debate....He was saying it in the context of the debate between theism and non-theism but I believe this is not only true regarding THAT debate, but MOST if not ALL important debates... Yet another example of the feeling of "relief" on my part to hear someone share so eloquently what seems almost "obvious"...except that it apparently still needs to be understood by so many.... Music to my ears!

[@carlt570]

Thank you Rebel Wisdom for bringing these two 'wise men' together. I have one question, and it has been nagging at me for a while : The growing conversation in this community has been pointing to a central truth that was mentioned briefly in this dialogue, it was named fleetingly in passing - Advaita.(Sanskrit for Non-dual) I get a sense that there is a broad reluctance to 'name' the modern understanding of this truth - Nonduality Is there a reason for this 'not naming' ? The 'not two, but also not one' dynamic tension of non duality seems to me to be the healing property required for our polarising world. ps. The 'third wise man' who I think would bring his own particular gifts, would be A.H. Almaas. What a truly wonderful Rebel Wisdom trinity it would be to have a dialogue with all three together, each with their own gifts, but also none of them siloed within their own speciality.

[@carlt570]

​@Ruby Badilla I am with you for your first three paragraphs. When form was manifest within Consciousness, such that Consciousness could experience 'itself', what also occurred was the manifestation of 'becoming', (what we might loosely bundle into an evolutionary/developmental frame, or a growth hierarchy ) Consciousness is 'evolving' as part of this union. Nothing is preordained, just as No-thing is preordained. We (our Self-consciousness) participate within this awesome dance of Becoming.

[@WhiteStoneName]

Propositional isn’t as much “belief”centric as *think*centric. Thinking is more precise than belief, at least in Western terms. We often talk past each other when we talk another what we believe. It doesn’t take into account self-deception and psychological conflict between thinking and (I would say) deeper, embodied/lived belief. It’s static vs dynamic thing.

[@thebigredwagon]

I was talking to a self admitted material atheist on Twitter about cathedrals. He said that cathedrals were only good because they required complex maths to build. I knew in that moment that utility is all he sees. I replied to him that the cathedral “ isn’t an abacus, it’s an ideal”

[@noochynomads1335]

Balance is our only truth. Peace can only be expressed by an outlet that understands it. We are a constant expression of our relationship with Self. David my brother. You have a light that shines from your eyes that many of the people you interview lack. This warmth I speak of can be felt In the depths of your voice. Many that you interview are out to prove. Their voices express this constant stress. It makes it hard for one to put trust into another with eyes that are so tense. So tired... Regardless of the information the outlet gives, my heart does not activate with the power I crave until I sense someone walking their talk. You have interviewed so many talkers. Its time for some walkers. So far, the doctor on polyvagal theory has come the closest for me. Everyone else has some background drama that needs to be worked through before they can share... You David, and your teammate. You two are the brothers that must walk some of this talk. Its not enough to just keep bringing talkers on here. You must walk to gain the respect. If you walk for us viewers, you will have done something here that creates an unstoppable wave. As of now, in my world... The only way to walk this talk is to disconnect from the techno world, 100%. Idk for how long, thats your knowing, but it must be done for you to KNOW what these men TALK about. Until you do this, you are just as caught up in the GOGOGOGOGO as everyone else and will NEVER feel the stability needed to STAND in your PERSONAL KNOWING. Giving us with your eyes what you are TRYING to give us with your mouth. Much love my brother, Joe

[@noochynomads1335]

To many rich men who get done with these interviews and go to their scheduled Golf game at 3. We need men that have suffered and walked through that pain. Men that stare at the stars at night and not a popcorn ceiling roof. Get some men on here that don't have a thousand dollar watch strapped to their wrist. Think of what I say and apply it to your own being. Do you see what I see? The SNAKE LIVES IN US ALL

[@noochynomads1335]

Slackline David. Do a video with Mr. Jamie Wheel on the slackline and FLOW. Get the talk into HIGHLINING. All of what I have said before about WALKING and TALKING can be understood on the line. There are no lies there. You hold the center through the storm. Not fucking around here. This is an ancient practice, look into it.

[@stephenbahry5808]

I wonder what you both think about Paul Feyerabend's work Against Method and his statement that in research "Anything Goes"? and I am curious also about your take on Hans Georg Gadamer Truth And Method and the implicit interpretive background given to us by experience / tradition?

[@merlepatterson]

29:30 "Projects of knowledge acquisition" might I add, "...of which there are many"?

[@solarnaut]

1:05:55 RE: "My Stroke of Insight" … she has a great TEDtalk describing the stroke and the drift from left hemisphere to right and back. There is a RadioLab interview with her (available on y/t) where she talks about waking up in the hospital without speech/memories and how blissfully "in the moment" life was … BUTT in the years of her recovery, as speech returned, so did the nattering egoic self (paraphrasing). She was asked, if you could return to the "blissful" state, without speech/memory, would you … and she replies "that would be a very difficult choice." Sam Harris jokes that being human is like "being held hostage by the most boring person on earth," and argues for meditation (and maybe a mushroom or two?) as a way of gaining greater perspective for the possibility of not (always) being held hostage by one's own mind. BTW, thanks for a BRILLIANT dialogue !

[@j.h252]

I saw the interaction between Iain McGilchrist and Jordan Peterson, which was much more an exchange with both on the same level. John Vervaeke is too abstract, mean too much left hemispheric also using complex terms where there could be simpler ones, maybe to appear more intellectual, don't know. Hearing McGilchrist talk, is listening to a whole human being, whereas John is bunkered inside his complexity castle not breathing wisdom but dry knowledge. This was a conversation between a master and his apprentice, not master with master, I think. Was always asking myself, why am I not touched by Johns series, think it's because of that.

[@mackenziej.leavitt3897]

I think that may be more a matter of preference in style rather than a qualitative difference between the two individuals. I think John is a master in his own way, but he has a scientific and academic style that differs from McGilchrist's. Love both of them though, and I thought this chat was insightful. I found myself touched by John's series because he gave me a scientific and academically meaningful language by which to understand things my right hemisphere had been trying to tell me all along.

[@notmyrealpseudonym6702]

Have you tried Vervaeke ' s meditation videos to see his non-cogsci presentations?

[@carlt570]

Maybe one has a way of imparting knowledge that better suits you ? I get exactly what you are saying , but also understand that John is purposefully trying to frame his understanding in a scientific language (he is a cognitive scientists after all)

[@j.h252]

@@mackenziej.leavitt3897 Wrote my post after the middle. At the end it became more lively and lovely;) But still, my impression is, McGilchrist has more gravitas, than nervous abstraction-John;) Getting warm with one, not so with another can be surely due to a personal resonance, I have lesser with John. That's ok so and you resonate with both of them what's even more fruitful;)

[@solarnaut]

J.H., thanks both for the comment/ criticism and the follow up. I know some personalities (typically egoic folks) grate on me despite the message. I like them both, but get a bit swamped by all the intelligentsia footnoting (academic?), and "credit attributing" ? Though, ultimately, we are building our knowledge on the shoulders of giants … so, it is probably a "necessary" attribute to be able to reference different "schools of thought" and how they can build on each other... if not for the casual viewer, then for the forwarding of the thesis ?

[@jaik195701]

For ALL THAT IS SACRED AND HOLY please go FULL SCREEN. Thousands are watching on 4.5 inch screen to discover, “Oh, they have reduced the VIEWABLE IMAGE AREA, by 20%, how WONDERFUL!”

[@user-bg5ww8zm8w]

Brilliant minds at play.

[@Neuronerd314]

That was quite an experience.

[@jirikrystofjarmar8733]

Have anyone, please, found the study of left / right hemisphere differences on interpretting the statement on paper? :)) I'm looking for it, but can't really hit the right words, obviously :)

[@DaveE99]

You don’t figure out how to solve the problem, you reframe the problem your solving. It gets you out of self deception, and allows for transformation.

[@DaveE99]

Being reasonable of objective is best to call it “looking at as many persepectivs as possibel and see which fits best. Not “my line of reason leads to x” “

[@johnmartin2813]

Wisdom may elude definition. But what interests me is the relationship between insight and wisdom. There has to be one, doesn't there? And surely insight can be defined. One thing I am sure of is that idolatry gets in the way of insight. And that insight is related to artistic taste. I.e., the gradual progressive refinement of our aesthetic perceptions. For it seems to me that the finer they are the more insightful we are.

[@maidenmonster2589]

1:05:00 Is the divided hemisphere of the brain and the import of blending the two akin to the idea of “wise mind” found in DBT (dialectical behavioral therapy) A combination of what they call emotion mind and logic mind.

[@hansjorgmixdorff5766]

Why do I get the feeling that despite all the importance of the topics addressed I witnessed two brilliant thinkers talking past each other and touting their knowledge, advertising their latest books etc? 4E cogscience?

[@socraticsceptic8047]

They are playing a certain academic game a mating dance to see if they want to collaborate further... other games are available but unknown...:)

[@impancaking]

Its not even my birthday yet!! (Its tomorrow) What a wonderful present 😉

[@Michael-hs5ih]

Laura Franks Happy Birthday! I hope the wisdom you’ve gathered thus far propels you into a fruitful and meaningful future :)

[@impancaking]

@@Michael-hs5ih what a beautiful sentiment, thankyou, truely.

[@YinOYangYoga]

Who's the writer who thought about the map and the territory that Iain talks about 1:03 mark in the video?

[@SophiaCycles]

Alfred Korzybski [Science and Sanity: An Introduction to Non-Aristotelian Systems and General Semantics.]

[@YinOYangYoga]

@@SophiaCycles thanks a lot

[@for-knees5986]

Gregory Bateson also. quotepark.com/quotes/1728832-gregory-bateson-the-map-is-not-the-territory-and-the-name-is-not/

[@DerekJFiedler]

I imagine Dr. Cornelius from Prince Caspian to look and sound like Ian McGilchrist.

[@maidenmonster2589]

Love is the answer to the addiction crisis