The Meta game of Dark and Darker

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Credits:
Edited by -TheSpudHunter
Written by -TheSpudHunter
Art:
Xous54 - www.deviantart.com/xous54
Clips featured:
JayGriffYuh: / jaygriffyuh
Music:
Envato Licensed Tunes
Game OSTs:
TES Oblivion
Payday 2
Left 4 Dead
NeverWinter Nights
Covers:
Eminem - Stan Parody
It Was a Good Day (Gay) john hollow
Mad World Cover Sample - • Gary Jules - Mad World...
Time stamps:
00:00 Intro
00:45 The Meta game of Dark and Darker
01:13 Ladders (please fix)
01:40 Stale Metas
01:51 The Cleric
02:11 Don't take this personally
02:45 Jay hears the bad news
03:38 Balance
04:41 The Druid
05:06 Why I like playing casters
07:49 Spears
09:12 Casting Combos
11:50 Arguments
12:23 Cleric Vs Druid
16:27 Closing thoughts
17:23 Funny Clips

[@yedrellow]

The melee community warned about a lack of melee skill differentiation on release and we weren't listened to because people said the game would just turn into Mordhau.

[@nyan1480]

Its not complicated like mordhau

[@novalegion2280]

@@nyan1480 Mordhau isn't even that complicated. The problems with mordhaus system could be solved with 2 changes

[@Dolfinius]

It's just a worse version of mordhau/chivalrys

[@stankobarabata2406]

Mordhau is just dumb. It's literally peeps playing with max dpi swinging their character models in 40 directions to dodge your attack. Yea I know it's also in DnD but I still remember I bought it in 2022, tried some duels, and every single dude was doing that stuff. And being toxic, of course, because why bother trying to play fairly against new players when you can just cheat and then rub it in. Refunded it straight after. Chivalry is better.

[@yedrellow]

@@stankobarabata2406 I never said make dnd a mordhau clone, but max dpi is not really any real advantage in mordhau.

[@alucardv.8114]

Druids are a problem. But we're also single cell organisms who will duel as rats coming across another Druid.

[@rekrn12345]

I don't think they really are a problem.

[@jradplays3904]

@@rekrn12345 druid main i assume

[@ygolohcysp8755]

Insta morph has got to go

[@laranjo5999]

The only problem Druid actually has wasn't fixed, which is the insta transform.

[@jeshegames]

First Druid team fight we both rat formed and 1v1d but I didn’t realize rats are 1 hit even to other rats

[@snakyjake9]

Epic PvP fight at the end there. Love the drawn out fights that take a while, those are the pinnacle of this game. That's why longer TTK is so important.

[@TheSpudHunter]

Agreed

[@justly3943]

Agree. I think HP needs increased across the board. 100hp classes -> 130-150hp and 120-150hp -> 180-200 hp base

[@0rphros]

Long TTK however, high damage is needed to help balance the a solo player impact against two parties if they do it *perfect* (ie better gear, skill, timing, luck) instead of never having a chance due to 2 v 1 = lose right now. Playtezt 2 and 3 vibes where a goated solo could be seen to take on a squad.

[@GravitasZero]

yeah, the most fun fights aren't just 2-3 hits hits long

[@kaio01]

Agreed

[@HordersBeanie]

spear headshots through the door doesnt work, that is why the clerics shield didnt dissappear when you hit him

[@lotreez9714]

wait really?

[@HordersBeanie]

@@lotreez9714 ye

[@rekrn12345]

The shield also didn't drop after the bear attack so its very likely he didn't actually hit his head. Probably got a limb shot. You only need to back up slightly to dodge that overheard entirely.

[@hewas9738]

@@rekrn12345it did drop though? After the bear hit. It just has a fading animation

[@RealNotASpy]

You’re brave with the music at 8 minutes. I pray YT doesn’t smite this video like the clerics smiting me in every raid this week.

[@colezeller4861]

i havent played in over a year and the constant YO-YO balance changes are to blame for sure

[@jellypasta151]

narc telling them exactly where to find it

[@Crumplednoseskin]

​@jellypasta151 Fr bro delete this shit

[@MasterSwisher]

That clip with the mouse in the corner has got to be one of the funniest things i've ever seen!!! 😂😂😂

[@GravitasZero]

The issue with druid being "skill expression" is that most other classes don't have access to that sort of skill expression potential. A fighter (for example) can just run (maybe a little faster for a little bit with sprint)and swing, a druid can cast, run, swing, traverse a whole room with ease while also avoiding all the mobs, juke out of a fight instantly, make mob trains way more easily than other classes while also escaping said train more easily than other classes, etc... It immediately makes it an unfair fight since most other classes cannot express nearly as much skill or have nearly as many tools (what amounts to a short free phantomize (during which you can cast) when hit is also another one of those many many tools). I'm not saying remove other classes, but IM needs to add more utility/abilities to other classes to compete in that aspect. But like it was said in this video, balance is a damn mess and IM has been struggling for many months now And yes, I know other classes have issues and are broken, but i'm pointing out that a class being strong due to "skill expression" is still unfair due to how very limited other classes are in that aspect. Also to those that say "just play druid".... that's the same as when people said "just play rogue" during the landmine meta, or "just play warlock" when warlock was absolutely busted. It's not fun for anyone and transforming the game into Rogue and Roguer, Barb and Barber, Warlock and Warlocker and whatever flavor of the damn month IM creates is not the way to go...

[@rml4474]

You forgot to add the insane amounts of damage from Bear/Panther form for a relatively small investment

[@GravitasZero]

PS: forgot to add the quasi stealth with rat mode

[@Duck4YouBabe]

@@GravitasZero he cant stealth anymore he does random noises now

[@brennanorr2]

Rats arnt even a problem anymore ngl they easy to kill but the dream walk cooldown is way to short its stupid its like 5s on top when u get hit by the guy thats in dreamwalk and he cant be hit is just crazy dumb ​@@GravitasZero

[@middleagepeasant2291]

Lmao it’s always funny to see people make paragraphs about how a mid b tier class is breaking the game. Druid is really powerfull at lower gear scores and skill levels. There’s a reason druids aren’t usually seen around 400 gs range. Not saying he isn’t strong but this isn’t a Druid meta at all. It’s closer to a ranger, fighter, bard, and barb meta than a Druid meta. Not even gonna mention cleric.

[@polisif1298]

Dude, that panther lunge in duel its straight up like World of Warcraft duel druid vs paladin jeez insane play

[@DMDuff]

Your videos never miss but the editing on this one really made me laugh, great job Spuddy

[@TheSpudHunter]

Cheers mate, glad you dug it

[@MellowMentat9]

"He's beginning to believe!" XD Banger of a fight, and another banger of a vid. Thank ya sir. Thank ya kindly.

[@TheSpudHunter]

Cheers mellow

[@grantsamson1114]

Getting into a lobby where a trio we fought was with 124 gear score but also had the most BIS demon gear double cleric really reminded me of when people score maxed before

[@wiresvn]

Adagio for Strings gives me PTSD flashbacks of Homeworld 1. Spud truly knows quality games

[@knightofwhale2834]

I've always just played whatever i felt like despite whatever meta there might be. There is always a path to victory, or at the very least, survival. That said, wizard is feeling pretty good in this "cleric meta".

[@iimasheriiol222]

Long live wizard!

[@Woodburnworks]

well said

[@Zorkalot]

Cleric definitely needs some adjustment, however if I HAD to pick a class to be the “strongest” I’d rather have it be cleric. Everyone hates me ranged metas, or landline metas, at the very least you can run away from a cleric. Ironmace seems to always leave a class as the best and with cleric at least kiting is an option.

[@tano1670]

Until you meet a 320 MS cleric lmao

[@oblivioneagle3464]

Mate you cant run away from a meta cleric, they will run your ass down with 300 - 320 move speed and 2 shot you lol, cant really run on goblin caves anyway unless you pre plan a route or kite in like the 1 big open room in the top left.

[@dallaszipperer7229]

Almost got me in trouble at work here laughing out loud at that rat in the corner clip. Goddamn that was funny.

[@franpschorr3646]

I've said this before and I'll say it again. If this game had Mordhau's combat system, I could beat the sweatiest full gold barbarian or cleric in melee every time with a budget kit. If I had to hit a guy 10 times and they had to hit me only 2-3, I could still win if our difference in skill was even moderately far apart. Now I'm not saying Dark and Darker should have the exact same system as Mordhau. One it would be take a huge amount of time to implement and I'm not sure if a crazy high mechanical and game sense melee combat system like that might not be what players want to focus on. BUT, I think there are so many aspects that you could at least take lessons from to see why combat in a game like Mordhau works and this melee stat check type of combat doesn't. First off, having a reliable parry and the sort of turn system (I attack, you parry and attack, I parry and attack, etc) that Mordhau has would make it so anyone can win in a melee fight if they're skilled enough. Yes skill does come into play now, but if you put an average player in the best gear possible and set him against the best player possible in a starting kit, the average player is going to win every time, where as if you added that kind of stat disparity to Mordhau, I think the best player would still probably win. Second, giving people a reliable timed block against ranged attacks would help a lot with balancing them. Every time a ranged class's damage gets out of hand the whole meta just shifts from a melee stat check to an FPS shooter (I'm thinking back to some of the early playtests and possibly fighting on Ruins). But if other classes had easier ways to block or dodge hits, it wouldn't be as big a problem. Third, Mordhau's chase mechanic would really help reduce a lot of this extreme kiting. Don't get me wrong I try to kite people all the time, but I never really feel like big long chases are nearly as fun as actually standing and fighting with an enemy. In Mordhau, if you stare at an opponent's back for a few seconds, you gain a burst of movement speed, allowing you to always catch you're opponent after a short time (Varying depending on the initial speed of the two people). If you made changes to the combat system, and made it so melee wasn't more about stat checking then skill, then you could also afford for melee characters to catch up to range characters much more frequently. I've won so many duels in Mordhau when a fully armored player catches up to me as an archer, only to slowly chop them to pieces with my knife. They have a huge amount of effective HP and damage over me, but if I'm better then them I can kill them no problem. I'll end on this. Which weapon do people generally consider to be the most fun and have the highest skill ceiling? The Longsword. And which weapon is the closest match to Mordhau's combat system? The Longsword. Wouldn't it be better if we flushed out the longsword's mechanics a bit more and made more weapons like that?

[@bingus549]

homie this is too much you gotta slim the arguement down

[@franpschorr3646]

@@bingus549 No

[@kakashi4949]

Lmfao! Bro the ending got me good! xD that's probably my favorite moment of all your videos so far x'DDD. It was like I felt the fear in that rats eyes lmao I can't.

[@rscelf01]

Thanks as always for the content! Love it!

[@soft1k325]

yesterday i've landed 22 shots with my epic surv bow on a cleric, he was 160 gear score, i was 300 like decent kit with 4 true damage. and guess what, ive been two shoted in the end of the fight. clearly balanced.

[@perki3341]

Great vid as always, top notch edits!

[@lukassoo]

The clips and compilations are golden in this one 😄

[@TheSpudHunter]

Cheers mate

[@terrex07]

That was such a great setup for the duel.

[@TheSpudHunter]

Super fun fight

[@xStorn99x]

Singing to the trapped rat in the corner made me laugh so hard. good video brother

[@ethanhadden8347]

“you couldn’t handle it” is such a perfect response 😂

[@Hornnnnnn]

spud is the voice of reason and chaos in our lovely game. please keep it up mr spuddy

[@TheSpudHunter]

Ty

[@boonyboonboon]

great vid bro. this is honestly OCE, gaming and the past 15 years of suffering "metas".

[@takefive5607]

Neverwinter music during the cleric fight is peak. Haven't heard it in years

[@TheSpudHunter]

Classic

[@janisw6565]

love the content, well done!

[@layinpipe05]

This IS the content I've been missing in my life

[@gmunplayz4491]

rat clip at the end had me dieing

[@zeuscaboose7202]

The reverb at 9:00 chefs kiss

[@BentJacket]

What is that song from the start?! I recognize it but cant put my finger on it.

[@muscleofthy]

Great video as always Spud.

[@aphonkex]

dude that is a weird feeling i play DD only recently (250 hours in 2 weeks, having a full-time job lmao) so got this in recommended after i searched for some sh in YT and I enjoyed the content so hard, the dude is so entertaining, and edit, and stuff but idk why i will never come back here something doesnt work for me but props and GL to the Creator, that dude deserves much more than 30k subs especially with growth of DD and huge inflow of timmys like me, that channel will hit 100k by the end of the year and aim for millions in his lifetime

[@kyejohnson55]

Honestly i dont mind slight swings in favour of classes as long as everyone gets their time in the sun. Except barbarians. After surviving the great barb and barber era, i dont think i have it in me to do that again

[@daiva6]

You see, I heard this one quote from somewhere about a game. ‘Why go through the headache of balancing everything out when instead, you could make everything strong in their own way’

[@dylmojeffree9978]

The Dido edit got me good, just fix em!!! Keep up this awesome work mate well done.

[@halodb9799]

where did you find that remix of dido - thank you

[@JCRascal14]

Best unarmed chasedown in panther Best escape in rat Rogue double jump Barbarian crush Warlock phantomize but better(auto and can cast) Better healing than cleric Can jump through doors Regains spells hilariously quick Can use spear Best terrain manipulation and bear body block is insane Can never be body blocked cus rat Dumb class confirmed

[@Musgravex]

Am happy everytime theres a new Spudhunter Dakka Dakka movie

[@Breubel]

What is the name of the song he played at min 8?

[@DavidCastro-df1ii]

Bro your fucking edits this vid were fucking insane. Holy shit man, i felt like i was watching a movie! 😂 singing to the rat at the end was the best ending. Also, the bits showing how good the class can be and showing the faults, how can anyone complain on reddit now?😏

[@TheSpudHunter]

Ty man

[@martynasjasulaitis7759]

Amazing video loved the end!

[@TheSpudHunter]

Cheers

[@Decloribus]

Sick video as always Spuddy boy

[@puntogamer1151]

9:00 is a piece of art JAJAJAJJAJAAJAJAJ

[@Murasame13]

The Stimpee level editing is great lol

[@BucketKingu]

On the bright side of Cleric, it's a fairly easy fix for the class. Lower the base damage of Smite/Judgement, increase the scaling. This change alone would force Clerics to wear gear with built in Will and/or find armor with Will, forcing them to work toward those high damage and protection builds, much like Fighters have to.

[@benlink202forever]

Most clerics actually avoid gear that has Will because True Magic Damage is just way better to have on your rolled slots.

[@strang7739]

@@benlink202foreverthis is true but making the base worse and the scaling harder makes that less efficient

[@gazhel]

"All around me are familiar faces...worn out places, worn out faces" Jab

[@j.d.4697]

How do you feel the meta in Dungeonborne compares?

[@deadasfboi]

What's funny is I know how to fix the ladder situation. Look into what they did for ladders in Counter Strike.

[@jan3381]

I really like when you do that crazy laugh❤️

[@jeremycorbin2178]

I used to play Barbarian like 9 months ago. Seeing where the game is at now, I don't wanna come back; it seems like there's no room for them anymore when everyone else is doing all this extra stuff

[@drakihen]

another spud banger lets gooo 🔥🔥🔥

[@dankman239]

Good vid n edits. Great points. Also rip twomad :(

[@beebeegun16]

*video starts* *TANK MUSIC INTENSIFIES* Oh yeah, it's gonna be a good one

[@kaptinkanoodle5039]

It would be nice if the appearance of gear could be used to indicate how strong they are. In a game like Elden ring, you can see their armor and visual effects from buffs, in minecraft you can see gear material and if it's enchanted. It would be nice to have some indication as to whether or not I'll win a gear check.

[@SimplyTexy]

if this game had a chivalry style combat system where you could pick which side to attack, block and parry it would be peak.

[@JSlaw-xn6jo]

Fucking appreciate the laughs every video. Phenomenal

[@TheSpudHunter]

Cheers

[@moodking253]

mellee doesnt work thru the door. it makes the noise, the other guys character recoils. no damage is done. only ranged works

[@fiddledotgoth]

Probably my fav video so far...

[@Frankuhji]

These are some stimpee music selections

[@GravitasZero]

The current passive gold meta is to go to buy gray recurve, survival and longbows from the vendors and sell them for a profit to other players who don't seem to realize they can just buy them themselves. That and buying volcanic ash from players for less than what you can then sell to the collector since some don't seem to realize the collector buys those... profit yet again EDIT: well that didn't take as long as I thought it would, my passive money maker now has a few other people trying to do it too ;)

[@TheSpudHunter]

Infinite money glitch

[@Skazzo]

But is it worth the time? At some point, picking up pennies becomes a waste of time

[@aishtaealatalniyranfialsaqie]

@@Skazzo I mean, im sure someone has a script running to automate it.

[@GravitasZero]

@@Skazzo you can easily buy 2 longbows, 4 recurves, 4 surv, switch to trade and just sell them for 52, 50, 50 respectively... All done in 1-2 minute. You get about 250 gold without having done a single thing in a short amount of money. that's it, just free money without doing anything. If you have a multiple lvl 20 characters, taking up 10 trade slots on one of them is a non-issue EDIT: 250 gold as pure profit, counting the price of buying bow and fee re-edit: I know I spilled the beans so it won't work anymore due to competition, but I don't really care. Also those sales usually occur during peak hours, otherwise they sell very slowly. Haven't played the game in a hot minute but sometimes just log on, set up those sales and make some gold that is currently rotting in my a few of my stashes (waiting for a buddy to get back to gaming, then can buy him gear).

[@GravitasZero]

@@Skazzo My response to you seems to have been deleted. Shortening it, it takes like 1 minute total to buy bows from vendor and fill one of your character's trades (during peak hours) and you can easily make 250 gold of pure profit (counted bow price and fee already) without having done anything.

[@Karnivalh]

Your content is so underrated. ❤‍🔥

[@stevensheets7217]

That ending 😂

[@wael8730]

how much time have you spent editing?

[@TheSpudHunter]

A little while, why do you ask mate

[@theovertyrant2620]

I think Ironmace also just doesn't do a lot of buffing skills and perks that seem to never do anything. Like I think Cleric has used the same 4 perks with maybe the swap of advanced healer to Faithfulness for some "variety" since their inception. and prior to that it was just the same 4 with no variety, its much the same story for every class. BIS Skills rarely every change either, because they focus on what's working too well instead of what isn't working at all.

[@MrSnstr86]

Brilliant!

[@FatetalityXI]

What an insane battle!

[@cagxplays9602]

Yo spuddy, when playing druid, you can actually switch to panther and look up when going up ladders, I have found that the most successful way to climb them.

[@Oopsibwokeit]

I'd just like to be able to wear barbarian only gear without hating myself. Because, you know, it slows them down so much you can't keep up with anyone except full pdr builds that counter them anyway. And its not even that heavy, but that doesn't matter when everything is aiming for as close to the ms cap as possible and you're a melee-only class.

[@TohGahr]

3:12 oh no the poor warlocks lmfao

[@manfIesh]

that duel was great

[@Myztic_Beard]

Bear form right click spam with bark skin armor is like the only way to deal with the clerics reliably RN the knock back keeps the space you need to out range the bonk

[@spabpush5950]

what is this song from payday 2 oh my god I want to find it write the name please

[@TheSpudHunter]

Payday 2 The Mark

[@spabpush5950]

@@TheSpudHunter Hurray, thank you, honestly, you know, I wish that I didn’t learn English, I can speak, but it’s as if I don’t want to belittle people’s intelligence, but it’s like a person from the continent who came to plow and speak at the level I want eat, food, go to sleep, etc., but thank you.

[@ransom5530]

Spud are you certifiably best au

[@FunkEBunkE]

hitting the cleric through the door with the spear sadly doesn't do dmg. there is like a hit detection collider that just negates the dmg ( even though you clearly see the hit ). You can see his bubble didn't go away when you headshot him, when it clearly should have. ( spear headshot is atleast 70 dmg so the shield would have been gone ) Love your vids spuddy I always click when I see one

[@TheSpudHunter]

Cheers, the more you know

[@Rainbowhawk1993]

I don't even play Dark and Darker or any Extraction shooter. But I always love watching your videos.

[@TheSpudHunter]

Cheers

[@TheEvinB]

I had to rewind to hear the lyrics at 1:30 lmao. Dido has changed man.

[@gyntergyntersen9998]

what an epic fight against the cleric!

[@grimmow187]

i see spuddy adapted to stimpee's choice of music

[@snowyzorua]

Spudhunter discusses RubberMallet still having ineffective schizophrenic balancing still episode 223

[@jirikrulis2853]

the legend

[@davidrousseau100]

Melee hits through door windows don't work by the way so that first headshot on the cleric didn'T register

[@ricewookie]

the eyes of the mouse in the corner :*(

[@hyrumgifford5674]

To be fair though, I would rather cleric be the best class than something like rogue or ranger. You can see the cleric coming, You can kite the cleric, There is stuff you can do. You can't do anything when you walk into a landmine rogue.

[@Rocksaplenty]

im just a rat rogue, yet if i see someone zoning out when they open a chest... it's hard to say no, you know? I should run pickpocket instead, it'd be much funnier and then i dont actually have to stab anyone

[@bozombiesftw1]

bro for a sec i thought the rat guy at the end was playing the music ahahhaha he wasnt right?

[@CreamyGoodness]

6:11 Why? Because he kicks at it and it's fun! That's why

[@cookiebandit101]

I managed to get 2 players chasing me on druid and kept thorn barrier them with mobs till they died. Their greed killed them. They coulda left at any point but chose to chase. It was amazing I love the druid class.

[@StrangeMattTv]

Nice vid xx

[@beroning]

amazing content as always

[@TheSpudHunter]

Ry

[@TheSpudHunter]

Ty

[@uruburus5203]

I honestly just liked Cleric because its preety much a fighter who can use the best bonking stick aka morningstar (god i wish there was a two handed variant ) aswell as playing like a medic in battlefield game, oh yea i can give heals to my teammates BUT I HAVE A DEFIB ON ME, someone died? no problem!

[@Q8CRAZY8Q]

i do not play this game but i love your edit and soundtrack selection

[@TheSpudHunter]

Cheers

[@frog7115]

love the stimpy vibes

[@Knetterkoekje]

Amazing showcase of the current META :D Who knows, maybe the next balance patch will fix it all.

[@BornToKill780]

When only one class has all these options and possibilities for "skill expression " its op

[@TheSpudHunter]

It's 5 classes in one yep

[@BornToKill780]

@TheSpudHunter tbh I would rather they gave the other classes more options rather then just nurfing it because as much as I hate it, it is cool and other classes should all the same level of options. Anyways big fan love the vids

[@saptilestonez7778]

personally they adjust these classes and make them unfriendly for average players. cleric is strong, really strong but the average player dies to any ranged class. a naked archer will melt a cleric just by running and shooting. wizard too or fighter with bow. i think every class should have some kind of range. cleric with a crossbow or barb with stackable throwing axes. even the rogue gets the hand crossbow.

[@rwjfavoriteredneck]

Another certified hood classic

[@jeramyneeley3351]

I love your vids man! I play cleric, new to DnD so when I saw how juiced we got I was laughing so hard but its broken, I agree and we shouldnt be doing more damage than a fighter while being able to have res available. I think we need to have trade offs in order to play damage cleric.

[@user-ho1pj8vm8l]

Arena looking good!

[@santi838]

2:07 was fucking hilarious lol