The Methods of Choki Motobu: Part 11

[@dermotrooney9584]

Solid stuff again but with a massive nostalgia fix for me. The "like knife fighting" sequence was just like a drill Larry Hartsell taught us at a course in Derby in the 80s, only he pressed in for the grapple. Downside is you need merch that says "that's not karate, that's Jeet Kune Do". Lovely stuff.

[@fishbelly789]

Moving Zen. First reference Ive heard in 40 years 🤗

[@MarshOakDojoTimPruitt]

thanks Iain

[@TheNerdJutsu]

The Human Body - a common platform - can only move and be moved a finite number of ways.

[@theaikidoka]

Right, but the number of ways is astonishingly high, and the number of possible interactions become staggering. I can tell you for a fact that trying to arm-bar someone a few inches shorter than me, the same height as me, or a few inches taller is very different even when using the same technique.

[@TheNerdJutsu]

@theaikidoka you're right - but that in no way negates what I said.

[@theaikidoka]

@TheNerdJutsu Oh, I wasn't implying that you were wrong, only that even the finite 'moves' are more than enough for us to spend a lifetime studying. That's part of what makes martial arts so interesting.

[@TheNerdJutsu]

@@theaikidoka Ahh okay, I wasn't implying things are simple - only accounting for why you see the same applications of movements from various arts all over the world.

[@theaikidoka]

@TheNerdJutsu Yes, totally agree.

[@melanchloey]

Is there a video of the kata you made that these bunkais are based on? I’d love to learn the kata while also practising the bunkai you’ve been showing

[@TheNerdJutsu]

I'm pretty sure Iain is working up to showing the whole Kata in this series - it's one he created to cover all of Motobu's drills.

[@practicalkatabunkai]

This series has shown the kata for where we have got to already. When the series in complete, I will show the complete kata. It’s better to learn it as we go through so people understand what each of the sequences is showing and represents.

[@valentino8629]

Hey Iain, love this serie ! I wanted to ask you a fairly basic question : why do you train Kata ? I mean I can see that you're really proficient in them so I can understand that you like them but as you stated it yourself, you can totally learn how to fight without Kata. And Kata seem to me much more limiting in terms of strategies that a more "free" way of teaching. What do you think ?

[@practicalkatabunkai]

I’m glad you are enjoying it! Kata provides the initial examples we explore to understand key principles. We then move beyond those examples. Kata is therefore not an alternative to “free” teaching and training, but something that supports and informs it. You can learn to fight without kata … but you can’t learn to fight without initial examples and drills to build on. In traditional karate, the kata records a number of these examples / core ideas put end to end. There’s more on that in this video: kzbin.info/www/bejne/r2GVlWCHisSUpacsi=5cVT-qsZR2NJ_XlM (see stages 3 and 4). This other video will also explain the purposes of kata (and hence why I value them): kzbin.info/www/bejne/l3zCioqmn8xnfcksi=iXfJ9wvnEddQ9Ct1 I hope that helps. All the best, Iain

[@joelquebec]

@@practicalkatabunkai As my instructor (Ray Montoya) says, kata is a suggestion. Each section can have multiple interpretations depending on what your opponent/assailant does.

[@practicalkatabunkai]

@@joelquebec Please say "hi" to Ray for me!

[@dermotrooney9584]

​@@joelquebecNice line. 🌟

[@bashlivingstonstampededojo882]

You can slip and hit the arm if you're too far away sure but you could also kick him after the slipping Perry if you're too far away to punch

[@Mudbutt73]

You are missing his point. He is teaching an exercise and he is doing what is within the exercise. If he was teaching to kick whatever you can reach then that would be a different exercise. Second point he is making, is hit what ever you can within reach. That is all. Simple.

[@sway71]

Yes, but the timing is different, and that space on the inside of the arm is where the brachial artery and median nerve are extremely exposed (and a very easy target to hit). If you train it to be your natural reaction to an unexpected strike it has the advantage of causing a lot of damage, happening almost at the same time as the block, and bringing your hands up to a more defensive posture. If you want to kick, just add that on after the technique since the timing for the kick will be the same anyway.

[@bashlivingstonstampededojo882]

@sway71 true I didn't think of the timing on the kick but yes the kick afterwards would work to

[@virginiagalaxie697]

I’ve been watching this series with interest; seeing what you come up with with no formal training in Motobu Ryu… from the position of an instructor of Motobu Ryu. You make some interesting conclusions, however, absent knowing the actual hoshin (principles) and receiving no direct instruction, some fundamentals are getting missed that would guide you in the actual methods of Motobu Ryu. Keep up the good work. We, actual practitioners of the Ryu ha (I’m in my 19th year), are out there to assist should you wish it. We’re just not very public with it. Cheers.

[@practicalkatabunkai]

Choki Motobu wasn’t a practitioner of his family’s Motobu-Ryu, but I understand there has been some relatively recent attempts to unify the methods of Choki Motobu and the methods of his brother. Is that what you practise? Has Motobu-Ryu now adopted Choki’s drills? Choki Motobu is part of my direct linage being the teacher of my teacher’s teacher’s teacher :-) I have not trained under any practitioners of his brother’s style.

[@virginiagalaxie697]

Motobu Ryu Kempo and Motobu Ryu Udundi are separate styles. I train in both. We actually don’t use the Ryu word very much. Kempo formally is Nihon Denryu Heiho Motobu Kempo; Udundi being Ryukyu Oke Hiden Motobu Udundi Kobujutsu. There’s no attempt to unify anything. Motobu Chosei is the Soke of Motobu Kempo. He began training in his uncle’s art in the late ‘70s at the request of Uehara. Uehara vowed to return that art to the Motobu family. They are taught separately and there is no cross pollination between the two. I actually train Kempo as currently taught by Chosei and Udundi as taught by Taira in Okinawa. They are completely different arts. When I speak of principles and errors in technique, I am speaking specifically of Motobu Choki’s Kempo. I’ll provide three simple tidbits. Irimi is the first principle, thus, there is no evasion. You step off and dodge all the time which is not a thing. Seme means pressure. You bring the fist of the last uraken back; don’t (not to mention there’s a counter attack by the offender with the right hand that the “back fist” is “blocking” that you have omitted. It’s not Ippon ken/ shoken. It’s uraken. As I said, I am enjoying your videos and your enthusiasm is contagious. Keep up the research.

[@practicalkatabunkai]

@@virginiagalaxie697 Thanks for clarifying. I was going off what practitioners of Motobu-Ryu have written (#), but I could well have misunderstood. You have clarified that there are two different styles, practised separately, both using the title Motobu-Ryu, within the same group. I was not aware that in practise the styles remained totally sperate even when having the same name and being taught side by side. My bad. It could also help if I pointed to the text accompanying all of these videos: “NOTE: In some cases, I have tweaked the methods to be more inline with the wider practises of myself and students. These instances are made clear within the video series.” I am therefore not claiming my take on these drills are exactly as Motobu did them, or the same as other takes on these drills. If something works, then I personally would not use the term “error”. In my karate generally, I am not tied to any style and will happily tweak things if I feel it helps me and mine: iainabernethy.com/article/styles-are-they-killing-karate YOU WROTE: “You step off and dodge all the time which is not a thing.” I’m not seeing that myself. I do on Drill 4 and I lean on Drill 10, but not on any of the others. I certainly like getting offline when I can (a big part of my wider karate), but I note Motobu doesn’t do that. YOU WROTE: “It’s not Ippon ken/ shoken. It’s uraken.” You’re right and that’s good news because that’s my preference :-) 30 years ago I got my first copy of Motobu’s book and I thought it was an Ippon-Ken, but it seems that was a misremembering of what in that book (just pulled it off the shelf to confirm). I think that may come from there being a similar technique that does use an ippon-ken within the methods of Motobu’s student Otsuka. Good news that! Thank you! YOU WROTE: “I am enjoying your videos and your enthusiasm is contagious.” Thank you very much! Thanks for posting here too. Do you have footage of how you / your group do to the drills? A link here would be good so people can compare and contrast. (#) - www.motobu-ryu.org/%E6%9C%AC%E9%83%A8%E6%B5%81%E3%81%A8%E3%81%AF/ “In 2003, Motobu Asamasa became the head of Motobu Udundi in addition to Motobu Kempo, and since then Motobu-ryu has been used as a general term for both styles. As Choyu sensei and Choki sensei are brothers, both styles have common characteristics, but there are also differences in body movements, the presence or absence of ukewaza, distance, etc. Currently, Motobu-ryu strives to inherit each style as faithfully as possible.”

[@virginiagalaxie697]

@ I am actually creating a care package for you to thank you for bringing attention to this wonderful discipline. Videos will be included. Motobu Chosei was in a unique position being the the son and nephew of such notable figures AND the sole survivor as Choyu Motobu’s oldest son was killed in WW2. Unified is a contentious term of late as the Udundi groups in Okinawa, while currently under the Motubukai umbrella, were previously under Uehara’s organization and operate a little differently. The easiest way to simplify something that is really quite complex… Motobu Kempo is akin karate, Motobu Udundi is akin to Jujutsu. They are similar in some principles and by name. That’s about it. The groups are not without their political strife, thus my stepping away from it a bit. Motobu would be happy you use the term “my karate” as these frameworks should be learned and then ultimately used to your benefit… whatever that may be (shuhari). Traditionalists do tend to get their panties in a wad when a specific curriculum is touted in a way that deviates from the original without homage first being attributed. I’m on the fence a bit as I see more benefit in practicality than blind adherence to tradition , however, my involvement in Koryu over the decades has taught me that certain technical principles get lost due to shortcuts and the pursuit of defensive efficacy only… sometimes there is overwhelming relevance in the seemingly irrelevant. So, I try to convey curricula as transmitted first, then I deviate. Look for my post!

[@dermotrooney9584]

Whoopsie! I feel like I've walked in on a grown ups chat. Nice though. 😊

[@michakasprzak6869]

Could it be that the backfist parries/moves away their other arm as they try to strike? Then one of their arm is held by us, the other is punched away and we go in for the elbow? Since I found your channel, I watched a BUNCH of videos and even though you teach practical applications, people you show techniques with usually can't help, but 'stay still with hikite by their hip' xD

[@theaikidoka]

To an extent that's true, but they are staying motionless for the sake of the one specific part that is being demonstrated, so that it can be more easily understood. If you watch many of Iain's videos, you will see the training partner responding to techniques - countering them, stopping them early, the technique not being as effective as intended and so on. There will then be ways to deal with the responses and so on and so on. Technique demos are ALWAYS a bit fake just so that they can actually be understood.

[@practicalkatabunkai]

In this case the arm goes directly for an attack to gain the initiative. This gives the enemy two options if they are not going to get hit: 1) Try to block it (will be hard to do but, if they do, options for clearing the limb can be found in other drills). 2) Move their head, which is the option this specific drill deals with. Thanks for the support of the videos. Much apprecaited!

[@diadicic]

I've read that the wheel was probably invented by many different cultures at different times who have never come in contact with each other.