The MIDI Controller I Actually Want!

[@jukeboxfandango]

I largely agree, I have a 12 step and barely use it. I DID find a makeshift solution for the ultra thin front pads and their poor actuation though. I bought a pack of 100 small superballs on amazon, cut a few in half, and then used epoxy to fix them to the front of the rubber pads. It's not perfect because the epoxy won't bind well to the silicon rubber, but that also means you're not damaging the pads by applying it and can easily scrape the epoxy away. It gives the pads a direct point of actuation and makes them much easier to press. Every once in a while one gets kick off and I just re-glue it. Best part is I have like 90 superballs left.

[@FreeBeat]

That's a really interesting workaround, I might have to give that a shot, thanks!

[@Terrible_Peril]

@@FreeBeat yeah adding a bump at the front (I think around half the length of the full pad) would make a HUGE difference. But it's still a little bit tight to use in the heat of the moment

[@ultracello]

I second this. For me it's not only the missing tactile feeling. It's also the way too tiny space between the switches to avoid accidentally hit the wrong switches.

[@FreeBeat]

Absolutely, thanks for watching!

[@Jonjuanjonjuan]

I’ve been doing this for the longest time. I use sustain pedals or momentary switches that I make into my own pedals for either on or off notes and combine them with my Roland SP404.(all3 ) As well as my MPC 2000 XL. Even a cheap electronic drum set works amazingly to trigger any midi velocity controlled sampler. I use a cheap alesis drum set to trigger samples in my MPC 2000 XL which then I run through the SP 404 MK2 to run through effects which also through midi using the USB-C port, enables you to record into your daw or even if you Want to trigger VST’s for that matter if you want to continue your midi chain. I absolutely love the workflow and you’re right I don’t know why more people don’t use pedals or other midi devices to trigger their samplers.

[@robinfeathers7134]

I can help. Like you, I got into bass pedals from Rush (although the first time I heard them was 1976). I built an 18 note custom pedal setup using stomp switch push buttons, with an additional 6 buttons for control functions and an LCD. It's controlled by an Arduino Uno. It's made of exotic wood because it looks cool, and the whole thing measures 26" wide (again, 18 notes), 8" deep and 6" tall at the back angling down to 2.75" at the front. I'll send you a message with the details.

[@march_media7924]

...your use of the Alesis and 13 sustain pedals was a "D'oh !" moment for me...why the hell didn't I think of that ?😅 Absolutely brilliant !

[@FreeBeat]

Haha thanks, I'm still pretty proud of how well that worked for us!

[@aplanebagel]

I've been asking the same things for years !

[@FreeBeat]

It seems like such a simple thing to make!

[@aplanebagel]

@@FreeBeatYup, been told all myslife capitalism breads innovation but lately every company tries to make a clone of another but no decent midi controller, it's as if they don't want to make money ;) ( joking and all )

[@zeronyne]

I won a 12 Step (RIP Keith) a long time ago, and you are absolutely right about the “keys”. And I think that is indeed because it’s so niche, like a keytar, that there has been no technical progress. I’m in the identical boat as you for the identical reason.

[@FreeBeat]

Thanks for watching!

[@alexgrunde6682]

It’s ironic because there’s a good number of multi effects pedals out there with layouts that are really close to the form factor you’re talking about. Wouldn’t take much alteration to get what you’re looking for. If you’re thinking of going the custom route, Tristan Shone of Author & Punisher started a company built off his experience making custom controllers for his act called Drone Machines. As they’re used to “outside the box” ideas they may be very open to what it is you’re looking for. That being said, it’s pure bespoke, made to order, so I don’t know what the pricing would look like.

[@bob-rogers]

The coolest part of the 12 Step is what makes it not work for you. The keys have aftertouch. It works great if you want to swell in a pad or an effect or something like that.

[@RoloTonyBrown]

100% feel you on this one. I don’t have the energy/resources/time to haul a huge organ style midi pedal especially living in the UK with no car and public transport in London for gigs. I’ve had the 12 Step a few months and despite ‘just’ getting the sensitivity to where I want it, the keys are like stepping on small bags of haribo. There is no feedback to the keys and you really have to push in, my foots actually cramped up in rehearsal using these curling my toes desperately trying to get the right pressure. I’ve got a Behringer Toro trying to do my worst Geddy impersonation (also a bass player but don’t sing!) and thought it would be perfect to fill out the three piece I’m in. This is a huge gap in the market!

[@FreeBeat]

Sorry to hear about your foot cramping during rehearsal, definitely confirms my suspicions of what this thing would be like to play for extended periods of time though. Hopefully someone out there comes out with something! Thanks for watching :)

[@fabiocuccu6086]

I programmed the 6 footswitch of the HX stomp XL to send midi notes just for fun and I have to say, if there were 12 of them I would be pretty happy using them as you said. Stompboxes’ footswitch does have a little bit of feel to them as you do tap tempo or have to press them just in time for changing fx according to the song.

[@FreeBeat]

Thanks for watching!

[@erichavenbass]

Great video, and I totally dig your exploration of different MIDI bass pedal options. I was doing the same as you for years, in that I never could quite find "the" perfect setup, especially one that didn't cost an arm and a leg. After years of doing much of the same experiments as you, I gave up and invested in a set of Crumar MoJo pedals which I use to trigger a Novation Mininova synthesizer. It's a bit cumbersome, but it sounds amazing.

[@FreeBeat]

Thanks for watching!

[@tomdog54]

I totally appreciate your quest! I’ve been through a half dozen or more trials with pedals, including KMI and the first Moog Pedals. I currently have an old Roland PK-5A, which is great, but requires occasional maintenance. It plays a Moog Taurus module, among other things, and gigs well. You might keep your eyes open for a used one. They do show up occasionally.

[@guitarelaxed]

I have an older Roland FC-200 Footcontroller, which has a midi note mode. The footswitches have a 5 mm moving range. I only tried it once, so I can´t tell you much about the precision, but it worked.

[@racheljones5614]

I have a keyboard that I want to make a bass pedal for organ. Will you do a video showing how you soldered the wires; like did you split the ribbon and how did you connect the pedal to the pcb board? Thanks!

[@FreeBeat]

If I ever make a new one, I'll do a new video, but that board I have was made like 15 years ago, I don't really remember any of it, and the internals are a mess lol.

[@jjrtech7806]

Im looking for my next product development. What features, switch/key types, materials, overall form would you like to see? If you cite a particular aspect of an existing product as an example that would be most helpful

[@actualhumanmeat]

I'm modifying a CHOMPI Club to the same end cos I want what he wants but entirely portable and smol 😆

[@FreeBeat]

I'm actually not exactly sure, since I've only just started looking into a custom approach.

[@HaineZeeTV]

I love my 12-step and have it programmed up to fire off one shots and loops from an MPX16, and play chords on a Microkorg… My only beef is with the “feel” of it, but that said, it’s as sturdy as anything and has stood up to a lot of stomping, intended and otherwise!:)

[@Nateburnsmusic]

Great video man, i've been on the hunt for the same thing for some time now 🤙

[@FreeBeat]

Good luck to us!

[@thejeffersonarchive]

Ive been looking into this exact same problem as the bass player in my band. Just wanting to trigger some organ chords to fill out the sound. So far the most interesting setup I've seen was the irig blueboard with an old ios app called Dream foot and an ipad,

[@FreeBeat]

Maybe someday there will be a sensible foot controller out there lol. Thanks for watching!

[@ryanthorsen1178]

Great vid. What do you think about the feel of the foot buttons on the ES looper or other foot pedals. The wood are classic.

[@FreeBeat]

The feel of the Looper X pedals is incredible. Absolutely the nicest feeling pedals I've ever used.

[@cresshead]

BEHRINGER FCB1010 MIDI FOOT CONTROLLER?

[@jazzad]

Perfect to trigger samples or change patches but doesn't allow note playing. It's a 20 year old design, too. There really is a lack of interest for this kind of product. I'd love to have a good one.

[@actualhumanmeat]

​@@jazzadyou could do what I'm doing and modify a CHOMPI Club ;)

[@FreeBeat]

Wayyyyyyyyyy too big haha. Not to mention it doesn't have enough pedals to form a full octave, and for me, the expression pedals are just wasted space.

[@adityabali1939]

@@jazzadif you change the firmware to an unofficial firmware (as cheap as $26, you can use it to play notes)

[@colinhorne2437]

You must be reading my mind! I play in duo and have been looking for this mythical product for a while now, just to add some bass to guitars and vocals. I use a Boss OC3 octave pedal which helps but I'm amazed no one has come up with an affordable and lightweight midi pedal set up. I have seen people play a synth on the floor with their big toe before now!

[@xs2me223]

I play while i am sitting. And I use the McMillen 12 step to play chords, in the begin it was a little difficult but now i am fairly used to it. I like that it is USB powered. If they can make it curved and much more sensitive knobs, then I can switch faster to the other knobs. I use my heel to turn my feet around the knobs. The new McMillen 12 step 2 I read that it is slightly more sensitive, but not that much.

[@banoe]

I’m working on a set that I’ve put together using stomp box style momentary switches. I’m at a phase where I can play it for testing while I await the rest of my parts. It will be one octave of pedals with transpose up and down selection. The width is the same as the 12 step, and I wanted to move away from organ pedals. It is made of HDF (High Density Fiberboard) while I’m in the prototype stage, but I’m thinking about making an aluminum front panel with hardwood end caps. The form factor may change in the final design, but it will be like I want it! I will post once I have finished pictures.

[@FreeBeat]

Nice! Those aren't my favorite switches but I'm certainly interested in how it turns out for you. Thanks for watching :)

[@timhintz]

I totally agree with you, I have the 12 Step and the buttons are awful. I have the Roland pk-5a that I used originally with a Korg Kronos as it had chord buttons that could be triggered via MIDI. They worked perfectly but yea, big. Keith McMillen has now passed away so not sure what will happen. We do need a product with the functionality of the 12 Step but in a form factor with standard bass pedals.

[@FreeBeat]

Absolutely!

[@Reyals123ify]

Seemed like you liked the one with the keyboard attached it just looked too homemade ... perhaps you could replace the keyboard with a small arduino to handle the midi and still use the wooden pedals as the switches. It would look cleaner. Did a quick search for arduino midi controller and saw an example of someone making a midi controller with buttons and faders. Or make your own box with some sort of switches you like.

[@Luap-ls3ix]

I see a lot of custom midi pedals/controllers online, I wonder if you could just make that one you have smaller with some parts or just make a smaller one from scratch. Always lusted over the Moog Taurus, really was ahead of it's time.

[@FreeBeat]

Yeah I think the DIY route is gonna be the way I go! Thanks for watching :)

[@CLaw-tb5gg]

Faced with this conundrum mystem, I have wondered whether it's possible to chain together Disaster Area Midi Baby 3s. They give you 3 MIDI-programmable buttons at least (and are tiny).

[@FreeBeat]

If only they didn't have those damn guitar pedal switches, I can't stand those haha. Thanks for watching!

[@CLaw-tb5gg]

@@FreeBeat I would imagine they’re the non-clicky kind at least - if they were the clicky ones I’d be with you.

[@Vim-Wolf]

I ended up getting a Roland FC300 for similar things, but doesn't really fit your needs as a) not laid out as a keyboard and b) still quite heavy.

[@FreeBeat]

Yeah not quite what I'm after, hope you're liking it though!

[@KenSlager]

I Really liked your sustain pedal idea.

[@alexwestconsulting]

Dood. I literally bought a softstep 2 yesterday. Literally yesterday. I'm looking for an expander right now. I have a Roland PK5 too that I bought a couple years ago off a guy who didn't know what it's worth for $200 canadian. It's freaking massive though. Like, massive. Your controller is cool.

[@FreeBeat]

Yeah the PK5's are beastly haha. I think you can still purchase MIDI expanders by the way!

[@TrueTempleDog]

Sound like something Donner or Behringer, maybe one of the pedal makers should Kickstart.

[@FreeBeat]

A small, compact, pedal board with proper pedals just seems like such a no brainer haha, I'd definitely support one on Kickstarter.

[@jukeboxfandango]

I'm a member of Behringer's facebook group and people ask them to make some form of Bass Pedal at least once a week, which always turns into an argument lol. I guess there are still a few budget options out there, but they're difficult to find. I bought some homemade ones off a guy online once, they worked for about a day and then the circuits blew.

[@erikavery1105]

Someone needs to tell Uli B.

[@MichaelBLive]

i have the studiologic. it is light tor its bulk. I made a raised drum stool so i can hover above it with both feet. love it. i have the km one and have the same trouble.

[@joebowbeer]

KMI 12 Step2 was released a couple months ago

[@stephenc3060]

Nice video, new to your channel. I see your dilemma. Dozens of quality boards out there, but not in the 12-note octave config. I know it's a subtle distinction, but most MIDI pedal boards are designed for use as switches. I think that the playability you need is really best provided by the organ type pedals -- hence the reason you see Rush using them. And there are some unbelievably nice ones, if you have the scratch, like the Nord Pedal Keys 27. Reports vary on whether the "27" is for the number of pedals it has or the number of $100 bills you'll need to part with. But I definitely see your point. Seems a lot of performers (not just musicians) could use something like you propose to expand their creative options.

[@FreeBeat]

There are a lot out there but like I mention in the video, they're all either wayyyyyyy too big/heavy, too pricey, have the wrong layout, or have terrible feeling pedals. I think I'm gonna go the DIY route and see what I can come up with! Thanks for watching :)

[@lafemmedevastation]

@@FreeBeat yeah I was gonna second the Nord Pedal Keys 27 suggestion, because it's a more modern offering with MIDI in the forefront and a less unwieldy profile than other big pedalboards, despite it being 34lbs. I think if you're wanting an octave of pedals, ~35lbs is gonna be the best you can do weight-wise simply because of the material needed in a properly-actuating pedal where you've the correct feedback you're looking for, without it simply breaking after a few gigs.

[@eyesonkites7199]

I did something quite similar to your Casio and wooden pedals DIY project. I wired arcade buttons to an old m-audio midi controller and built a wooden case. I have big feet, so I purposefully spaced the buttons appropriately. It’s worked out pretty well, but now the m-audio electronics are misbehaving. I got interested in the 12 step again, but because of my research and this video, I’ve eliminated it as a solution. I will just keep improving my DIY buttons. A newer midi controller and a metal case for example.

[@eti313]

I know exactly how you feel. Why are MIDI bass pedals so expensive? I also bought the Keith McMillen 12 Step, and it's been collecting dust. I was hoping you'd have something to give me hope. I still plan to use them one day.

[@actualhumanmeat]

You could modify a CHOMPI Club like I'm gonna do, it's actually got a great starting point for this and is already built to be modified. The form factor really lends itself to it. Also it's a sampler chromatic synth and digital tape deck looper thing so it's a thing in its own right. I'm currently controlling the looper functions with an AirTurn Bluetooth stomp pedal board (tiny thing really) and CME Pro WIDI Jack 💪

[@FreeBeat]

Yeah it's pretty ridiculous how stagnant the space has stayed!

[@jukeboxfandango]

Try cutting superballs in half and fixing them to the pads. It's not a pretty solution but it's surprisingly effective.

[@Greggsjeff]

Explore the space!! lol Bruce Dickinson quote from SNL/walkin😅

[@FreeBeat]

Thanks for watching!

[@silasgarrett2431]

I have been looking for this for some time as well. I am more interested in triggering synths than samples, but there isn't much available that isn't very expensive or not very good

[@jospower8802]

Thanx for your video, you're perfectly right

[@FreeBeat]

Thanks for watching!

[@rexcellencemagee6729]

Unfortunately I don’t have one, but I’ve been considering the Behringer one for a long time. It certainly looks like what you’re looking for? And they’re cheap! I think that’s pretty obvious and for whatever reason you don’t have any Behringer, I personally don’t care about they’re business practices, but I do have an X touch and it’s a great desktop editor, between the two I think it could be what you’re looking for. The $150 one is what I have, I honestly don’t know what the difference is.berween it and the $500;0ne. I can testify it works great got lights, DAW and MIDI cc! I use it with Davinci Resolve as well.

[@FreeBeat]

It's wayyy too big, just like most of the others. It also doesn't have the proper amount of pedals/switches to be arranged like a proper keyboard octave.

[@TheLordcasio]

I like your idea of the Alesis trigger brain. Have you thought of using Boss FS-5/FS-6 (for the black keys) and mounting it to smaller, 2-tiered pedalboard?

[@kaislate]

The keith mcmillan softstep 2 is much better than the 12 step. Otherwise the sheeran looper x is pricy, but can be a sampler pedal board. Behringer FCB 1010 is a good choice. Other honorable mentions are the rocktron midi mate, musiconlab efx series, Art x15 ultrafoot, glab gsc 2, and of course the Line 6 Helix.

[@boriscat1999]

Boss FC-50 is nice for some basic utility like MIDI transport controls and program change. But it wouldn't be able to replace a organ's bass foot pedals. Like from Studiologic or JG3. Those organ pedals are so big and heavy so that they don't move around, because the pedals are like levers and you'd flip the whole thing if you got rough with it if it wasn't so robust.

[@FreeBeat]

Already working on a DIY solution :)

[@eccles99]

This guy has *exactly* articulated my thoughts on the 12Step. It's such a great idea, something a lot of people would be glad to pay money for if it worked... but it doesn't quite work. It's close, but not all the way there. Yes, the pads are hella unresponsive (you really have to use the balls of your feet to get a reliable and in-tempo note). Yes, there's no tactile feedback. And yes, it's too small--- because the keys are so close together, you can't use two feet to play adjacent keys, like a Hammond B3 player might. Your feet just get in each other's way. I still admire McMillan for the attempt and I think his product is absolutely fixable. IMO, he just needs to do the following: -- Raise the price to about $600 (to pay for all the other stuff I'm suggesting). Same price point as the Studiologic MP-113. -- Increase the size by about 50 percent (or whatever the correct amount is). Hell, you could *double* the size, and you'd still have an ultraportable pedalboard that you can throw into a gig bag or backpack. - Totally rethink the pressure sensors. There must be off-the-shelf solutions out there that would work better than this. - Don't place a thick layer of compressible rubber (or compressible anything) between the player's foot and the pressure sensor. It makes the sensor less responsive. This was an issue with some MPC models as well. - Include a pair of buttons for octave up/octave down. There's a reason every other bass pedalboard has them. (The current model requires multiple key presses to shift octaves). - While you're at it, sell a deluxe version with 17 keys.

[@ricknorris1466]

Farfisa actually made a smaller set of pedals that went with some of their combo Organs. The back area was very small. I’m sure that they could be converted to midi.

[@dwaynecarroll6098]

I was REALLY hoping Behringer would come to our rescue since the produced a Taurus- like synth module. I ended up following Rush’s lead and tracking down a Korg 1 Octave pedal board. Not cheap but not bulky either!

[@ricardbennett6487]

Roland fc 200 is set like a keyboard and has note triggering

[@davidlynch4338]

I had basically the same experience with the 12 step. I ended up building quite a nice wooden enclosure and wooden keys for it that worked pretty well. At the end, the 12 step is just lousy and unreliable. I have settled for a Roland PK-5 and am generally happy with it other than the outdated control buttons. They can't be reassigned for anything and take up a ton of space.

[@FreeBeat]

Do you happen to have any pictures of the enclosure and keys you made for the 12step? I'm super interested. Thanks for watching!

[@davidlynch4338]

@@FreeBeat I sure do. Where should I send them?

[@Swenglish]

It sounds like what you want is your original solution but with something like arcade switches instead of sustain pedals. Should be a pretty easy build if you've already got the trigger IO and you've confirmed that it responds to sustain pedals, since those are just big switches anyway. Just get some big momentary switches and TRS cables, a box, and maybe a plank of wood to add extra height to the upper row, and that's pretty much all you need except for the tools.

[@Swenglish]

Arduino would probably also work if you don't wanna use the trigger IO.

[@duncan-rmi]

there was a thing that pre-dated the taurus; mike rutherford used one with genesis, the dewtron "mr bassman" it was called. same sort of thing as the taurus, but earlier.

[@GhostKitchenBand]

I’ve been wanting the exact same thing and had the same thoughts

[@forton615]

Doepfer MBP25 might be something to look at, it's some kind of diy kit, you still have to build a case for it and they don't look very heavy. They have it at thomann.

[@BenCoeMusic]

I’m liking the vlog format, nice to sort of a chat about experiences. It isn’t exactly what you want because it doesn’t have the keyboard layout, and I don’t know how you feel about guitar pedal switches, but last year I got a doremidi fc-3 foot controller for my setup. It’s pretty cheap, has 3 buttons that you can configure to send any midi note/cc. Plus you can add another sustain or expression pedal type switch. It also has din midi and usb midi out. It even has a usb midi host port so you might even be able to daisy chain the with usb. You could get 4 of them for the same price as a 12-step and just stick them on a pedal board together. I’ve used mine at probably a dozen gigs and it’s held up well, hasn’t given me a problem. Just a thought, best of luck with your search!

[@actualhumanmeat]

I am using it in combination with a CHOMPI Club, but I'm gonna modify that to have foot pedals like he wants

[@FreeBeat]

I personally can't stand those guitar pedal switches (big reason I went with the Looper X over something like the RC-600), but those doremidi controllers are pretty sweet for the price!

[@indigosnow_]

Wouldnt a MC6PRO work well enough. Or nvmd. The keyboard kayout is tight. Still rad to hear your story. I want what you want for sure

[@ilovecatsandsynths9702]

They’re big and heavy so they don’t slide around on the floor (a problem I have with my sustain pedals!). I guess it’s because they’re a niche product you don’t see much innovation in them. Maybe you should go the Jarre route for a controller and get a laser harp. 😁

[@FreeBeat]

I just know there's got to be a better design out there! I think I might try my hand at a DIY route and see where that goes :)

[@ilovecatsandsynths9702]

@@FreeBeat Maybe get a bunch of stomp box switches and install them in the 12 Step or one of your other controllers.

[@ricknorris1466]

I tried the 12 Step 2 and it was only slightly more responsive even with the sensitivity set at 100%. Sent them back.

[@FreeBeat]

Oof, bummer to hear about the 12Step 2. Thanks for the heads up!

[@audiohub1568]

Digitech PMC-10. Hard to find these days, no velocity, but nearly infinite Midi programming capability and presets that can be called up on the fly to repurpose the functions immediately. If you can think of something to do over Midi, this will do it.

[@FreeBeat]

Sadly the PMC-10 doesn't have enough pedals, nor are they laid out in a keyboard octave :(

[@8stringwrshpleader]

Have you considered the midi commander or FCB 1010? I know you really want to have the keyboard layout. Maybe it's worth your time to pull open an FCB1010 and create a custom enclosure that allows you to arrange the pedals in your preferred layout? 🤷

[@buxycat]

Hey man. I got some ideas for you. Maybe. Just things that you might not have considered might be areas to look at, to find something you can convert. Have you considered looking at Sim Racing Pedals? I'm talking what someone who's *really* into PC driving/ racing games would use? Those pedals would USB to a PC. There's different kinds of sensors those pedals use, one type of sensor might be giving you the trigger point control you want. I'm sure you can buy the sensors as upgrades. I don't know, with your DIY skills, you might be able to come up with something. Oh, I only just thought of this now: there are some very interesting controller solutions, to allow disabled people to play video games, again, there might be something that's suitable for you to adapt. On a personal level: I've been wondering if I could avoid jaw and hand pain playing a Yamaha WX-5 MIDI wind controller, using something like the Behringer FCB1010. The size of the damn thing is so off putting, so I"m feeling your pain. I've jsut ordered a BeatStep Pro and wondering about integrating pedals somehow. Best of luck to you, and thanks for whatever uploads of yours I've seen: you've covered equipment I've been looking at recently. Seen so many, I forget which were yours, heh.

[@FreeBeat]

Thanks for the suggestions! I'm looking for something that is *not* USB to PC though haha. Appreciate the comment :)

[@buxycat]

@@FreeBeat My pleasure man. I remembered later that the sensors used can be "load cells" or "hall sensors," just in case that's of any use to you. I thank you for the things I've learnt, the thoughts I've had and the inspirations I've gotten from you.

[@jmporter34]

Great video and I totally agree. I have a Moog Minotaur synth module that I’ve triggered with a Roland pedalboard (reliable but huge and heavy) at times and with the 12 step at other times. After maybe 2 years of light use at bars and weddings, the 12 step started acting up - notes would not trigger sometimes or not turn off other times. I emailed McMillen for support and was told “throw the 12 step out and buy a new one”. So F$$$ them. Having said that, I saw Jon Anderson’s tour with the Band Geeks last year. They played all classic Yes and were awesome. The bass player, Richie Castellano, used the 12 step to trigger some type of synth module and it worked great. Mine did for a while too, until they didn’t… Good luck finding or guiding something suitable for you.

[@jantuitman]

If I see the picture of the StudioLogic I am thinking, that seems about the right size. There needs to be counter weight and a lot of travel to give the pedal the right feel, and the whole board also just does not need to move away if you try to press something. So I wonder if you are not just combatting physics the moment you try to achieve that from a smaller construction. But that is just my intuition, with zero expertise in the area…

[@FreeBeat]

I think the design would have to be tweaked a bit for a smaller form factor, like have a continues base under the pedals to provide stability, but even if the Keith Mcmillen just had buttons that actually moved it would be a huge improvement, and I think proves that the smaller form factor is indeed possible. Thanks as always!

[@chrishanby1441]

Roland FC-200?

[@FreeBeat]

Doesn't have enough pedals, the expression pedals are wasted space (for me), and it's $600 haha. Thanks for watching!

[@Phadddy]

Agree completely

[@FreeBeat]

Thanks for watching!

[@tonywharton5220]

I was a huge fan of Rush ✌️

[@FreeBeat]

They were simply the best

[@sandynordahl1964]

I’m right there with you! Owned a Studiologic. It died and I didn’t want something that big. Got the Mcmillen! Size is perfect but nothing else! Very disappointing

[@Farewelltokingz]

The Dewtron MR bass man pedal setup I think is the best medium. If someone were to make one without any onboard synth and a midi out then that would be perfect.

[@MreenalMams]

When did the face reveal happen.. halfway through the video, i forgot it was Free Beat until the outro came.. Anyways yes I do wish there were more midi bass pedals.. i do wish to play organ on my vsts..

[@FreeBeat]

Face reveal was back in the Summer of 2020 I think lol. Thanks for watching!

[@MreenalMams]

@@FreeBeat oh really..? I definitely had not seen any videos with face even though I started watching your videos post 2020..

[@distorson]

Same here, I'm also looking for a good bass midi pedal since 20 years...

[@cthulholmhastur5317]

Ketron k8..they sell on thomann for $350. They weigh 16.5 lbs or 7.5 kg.

[@FreeBeat]

Yeah they fall into that same category as the Studiologic and the other "readily available" pedal boards. Too big and heavy. Although I must admit, they're a little smaller than I thought. Still nothing close to the Keith McMillen 12step in size though.

[@marvinnerio5894]

I have been looking for the same device for the last few yeras.

[@FreeBeat]

Good luck on your search, thanks for watching!

[@22neohenry]

I tried to use an FCB1010 to do this but it was pretty much like the 12 step, hard to time and not good for playing anything musical note by note. Definitely a gap in the market.

[@BrendaCreates]

You could maybe talk to someone that does 3d printing. They could maybe design a foot switch that could eventually be incorporated into a foot pedal midi controller.

[@robogod3000]

Yeah, RUSH!🤖👍

[@ChrisHopkinsBass]

I’ve got a 12 step but it’s been up in my loft for years. Having a buy another piece of equipment to allow it to communicate with standalone midi devices is a joke tbh

[@FreeBeat]

Yeah that's the main reason I held off on trying one for so long. Luckily (or unluckily I guess? lol) the Reverb listing I found included it, so I jumped on it.

[@darylquintana1420]

We live in an age where if you can imagine it, someone with some engineering skill, CAD skill and a 3-D printer can probably make it.

[@PaulSpades]

Yeah, I can put together a few switches, wire them up to an old arduino, bit-bang midi messages in a weekend. But a board that you can sell? Maybe in 6 months, a year? You want rgb leds, onboard configuration, screen or whatever ui you think it's best, 9v input or onboard battery with charging circuit... then what switches are best, do you want hinged keys and springs on the switches, board revisions, 4-5 prototypes for enclosure and maybe the keys. I'm a bit surprised he's dead set on organ pedal boards, I'd rather have effect pedal switches in a more ergonomic arrangement. The organ boards are made to be played with both feet dangling from a chair - there's no way that layout works well at all with one foot standing on stage.

[@actualhumanmeat]

​@@PaulSpadesit will be the physical feel of a stomp switch being so different but if he wanted to be could simply use some Bluetooth AirTurn pedals and connect them to whatever he wants via CME Pro WIDI products ;) Assuming you meant the stomp switch... I'm gonna be modifying a CHOMPI Club to have a similar "organ foot pedal" layout

[@offkilter]

⁠@@actualhumanmeat Asking for myself-a MIDI neophyte-why would one need the CME Pro WIDI device if the Bluetooth AirTurn is already wireless?

[@offkilter]

⁠@@PaulSpadesAgree, an effective layout of Boss-style pedals would kill in this scenario (a la the new Sheeran Looper X)

[@actualhumanmeat]

​​@@offkilterBecause the device he's controlling might not be Bluetooth ;) I control a CHOMPI Club (chromatic re/sampling synth digital tape looper '80s aesthetic awesomeness) via the AirTurn, the WIDI Jack connects to the CHOMPI but it can group connect to up to 4 devices so I could also use my ACPAD Surface MIDI controller or several AirTurns for more commands cos 6 might not cut it, or other gadgets etc) Using a CHOMPI as my guitar and other input looper (gonna buy the Sheeran Looper+ cos it's tiny and does everything I wanted but couldn't find in a portable looper system) cos I can sample and resample and mess with the sound but I can also trick it into having other features and use cases in exactly the way the OP wants in this video 💪 I'm gonna prototype my mod with Lego initially, the keycaps come off as does the entire casing and I can customise as I wish so it's sort of accidentally perfect for my goals here in a way, especially with the partially open firmware 😆

[@adityabali1939]

Nektar Pacer is the best out of all options

[@FreeBeat]

It does seem pretty solid, just wish those pedals were laid out like a keyboard octave!

[@adityabali1939]

@@FreeBeat you know you can program them note by note just to play exactly what you want. Instead of a regular keyboard layout, you can lay out the note sequence from left to right/any other layout and it will play specific notes. In a live setting its easier because u dont need to look down to see exactly what note you are playing

[@DyingTiger]

Looks like Im not the only one on this quest

[@FreeBeat]

You are definitely not alone my friend!

[@erikavery1105]

I was about to get the 12 Step… now this got me thinking…🤔🤔🤔🤔… Roland should(and MUST) update/downsize the PK-5. Behringer Should’ve made a foot keyboard to go with the Toro…they dropped the ball on that😖🙄! Combining the features of the 12 Step with the feel of the vintage Taurus Pedals in a lighter and slightly smaller form….🤔🤔🤔🤔🤔

[@marcrohrer7130]

agreed

[@FreeBeat]

Thanks for watching!

[@JeffreySaxophoneTallNewton]

I made the mistake of buying that garbage KM thingy too. What you want is the Studiologic, only 13 pounds. I'm buying actual organ pedals, but it's for organ. I could stand and play sax or guitar as well, if I can balance!

[@FreeBeat]

Like I mentioned in the video, even something like the Studiologic is still wayyyyyyyyy too big and heavy for what a modern day MIDI bass pedal unit should be

[@JeffreySaxophoneTallNewton]

@@FreeBeat Hmm ... as a player who busks ("weight weenie" there..), I don't think 13 pounds is heavy for a regular gig. I have size 16 feet. The Studiologics are too small. I''m buying actual organ pedals (I *think* they will work standing up, but I'm buying them for organ primarily, so will be sitting). The lightest ones are 16 pounds, mine will be 23 pounds. And they are quite big, but that's what's needed to actually play lines and not just trigger stuff.

[@evelyntelevision]

This is so diappointing to hear. I've been thinking about picking up the 12 Step or Softstep for a long time now. I do hope the v2 fixes that issue because I could really use something like that. I've made my own 4 button footswitch for looping but would hate to have to make a whole 12 switch one too

[@FreeBeat]

Thanks for watching!

[@TheDavidPoole]

Why not design one yourself? A basic MIDI controller isn't very complicated. You could fit all the electronics on a tiny board, even a stripboard for proof of concept. You seem to have the bits to cannibalise to knock one up. Reading the comments it looks like theres certainly a market fot it - you could make a few bucks selling them if you came up with a streamlined design. The weight might be necessary for stability when kicking it around, but if not you should be golden! Cheers ✌️

[@RichardSpragueSpike]

Build your own? Check out Badass MIDI Controller

[@FreeBeat]

I think that's gonna be the direction I go :)

[@maxxrosen]

I've had the 12-step for several years, too. I have all the same complaints and so it sits in its little bag. So disappointing.

[@sonicase]

hmm yeah i hate how shitty midi controllers are, built out of plastic but are expensive.,.. i feel like diy from an organ to a microcontroller is probably one of the easiest way to go but a hassle to do,...unless you want to spend more on the large contraption which basically does the same thing

[@FreeBeat]

Right, which I made back in the day, and already own a set of, as shown in the video haha. I want something smaller, but with the same pedal layout and action as the bigger ones. I think I'm gonna do the DIY route!

[@jonathanzeppa]

I've actually built something similar to what you're describing with an old MP-113, using a Teensy 4.1 for full midi control. I've since upgraded this to be fully programmable, where you can lay out any chords you want: kzbin.info/www/bejne/r2PZhGt9fJilitEsi=NCKc5WoV6MWig0Wc

[@FreeBeat]

Awesome, thanks for sharing!

[@JonathanCooper-q9h]

Why don’t you create your own and market?

[@FreeBeat]

I would have no clue where to start with any of that lol

[@FUTURSample]

Maybe made your own DIY midi pedal with Arduino ?!

[@ManyattaYokatta]

Roland fc200

[@drumitar]

the studio logic ones seem fine to me.

[@FreeBeat]

Like I said in the video, way too big and heavy for what I'm after :)

[@DetroitMicroSound]

I like some of Keith's controllers, but for what they are, they are all a bit spendy.

[@chillywilson]

focus

[@qwe1231]

FYI even at 1080p60 the video quality here looks really soft

[@actualhumanmeat]

Might be the lighting? 🤔 I need to learn about this myself for my videos tbh 😆

[@qwe1231]

@@actualhumanmeat You can lose contrast and sharpness if light directly hits the lens and causes lens flare, but that does not seem to have happened here - we don't see any light source nearby.

[@actualhumanmeat]

​@@qwe1231this is definitely a thing I need to get good at for my content, thanks for the info 💪

[@FreeBeat]

Yeah I tried a different camera, different angle, etc, and I'll be experimenting more in the coming videos as well. Once I find a shot I like (I actually like this one a lot) I'll dial it in. Any and all feedback is much appreciated!

[@derickal7850]

Well u speak and speak but what are u playing?

[@11smallroaches1]

I’ve bought 3 KM products and never found any useful. 12 step, quneo, k-board. Sorry Keith.

[@derickal7850]

Blabla 😠

[@7HzResearch]

It sounds like you really need to talk to some of KZbin's musician makers like @LOOKMUMNOCOMPUTER or @NerdMusician - Could be a great colab video

[@Barflew1]

Agreed..Started watching @LOOKMUMNOCOMPUTER from 1st Church organ video.He is an electrical genius.