The Mind and Times of Virginia Woolf (Part 3 of 3)

The Mind and Times of Virginia Woolf (Part 3 of 3)

[@confessionsofanenglishlopi5292]

When I was first diagnosed with bipolar, ohhhh many years ago now, I would search for understanding. I never found it but I did find the diaries of Virginia Woolf and they saw me through a very turbulent time...and since then, I have simply loved her.

[@Tutafay]

I love how they used the soundtrack of The Hours throughout the documentary. One of my favorite scores...

[@AliceP.]

I just love, and cannot stress that enough, how all them call her "courageous" and "rational" and consider all the factors around her suicide. I've seen so many people talk about her, and write about her, and films portraying her under the deeply-depressed-unstable-woman-who-committed-suicide narrative. _The Hours_ for example is honestly something that I would like to "unwatch". Such a complex person, that found herself fighting a lifetime illness in the midst of a terrible war, food rationing, imprisonment threats... I remember reading the passage in her diary where she describes being on a call with Vita and hearing the bombs falling around her. And Vita repeating herself, failing to make sense, because she was so frightened. Can you imagine something like that? Anyway, I'm clearly very passionate over this hehehe I'm just happy that there are people who commit themselves to her memory, not only filmmakers trying to profit on a stereotype.

[@marshhen]

I recommend her diaries. I cannot get enough of them, and often will go back and reread sections when I feel aimless in my own work. I cannot imagine my life without her work in it. I have learned alot from her. In this video I heard for the first time of her trip to Germany to see how bad it had gotten. The effect of war on her mental illness must have be excruciating. She is too often cast as a victim. I find her courageous and joyful in her writing despite whatever life threw at her.

[@d4nhumphr3y93]

“Nothing has really happened until it’s been described.” Keep a diary. Don’t let a day pass without recording it, whether something interesting happens or not. Something interesting happens everyday.

[@williamparker1085]

at 73 i have begun to diarize my life and its a fascinating and rewarding experience

[@analogasmr]

The last words her nephew tells us about her are really inspiring! Thanks for uploading.

[@musicalcoholicdrunk]

She'll never be forgotten...

[@richardcassidy9536]

Why is it so important to be remembered? All is vanity...

[@user-eo8jx7jq4u]

Suicide in general is gallant, but to say it was the most gallant thing in Virginia's life sounds much like praise to me. With respect to this speaker, I doubt that her loved ones would have wanted anyone to celebrate this, her final suicidal act, in such a way. Let me add that depression and mental illness has passed down to four generations in my family and we can't be the exception to the rule. A doctor once advised me based on curing our genetic curse that not having children, would be the only sure way to tie it off completely. I was shocked at first but came to realise that life isn't kind and nature not forgiving. We live in a dog eat dog world, the strongest survive and until a day comes where Aspergers syndrome, ADHD etc..are seen to be gifts, in hindsight, may I add, this probably was the most honest advice he could of given me at the time. Replies welcome.

[@NotAnotherKuromi]

I agree that suicide should not be praised & I admire her for all the times she chose to live much more. However I do not think that people who are different, disabled or have chronic health conditions should not have children, as long as they are capable of caring for them. There are plenty of "normal" people who cause damage to children, do not give enough attention or parent imperfectly. To make the exception to a certian group sounds prejudicial to say the least. It's not a cure it's not fixing anything, it's the complete absence of everything. It's also bordering on Eugenics. While it is incredably sad for people to suffer they will likely also experience great joy & may add great things to this world. After all many of the greatest minds were different, troubled etc but they often found great success both in love & their career. If they were never born they would never have felt any love, fondness, satisfaction nor anything positive at all. The world as a whole would be worse off if they had not been born into it. It is impossible to predict how people will turn out & it's pessimistic to assume it is guaranteed to be a net negative. While what the Dr said to you might have been appropriate, it may have been highly damaging to say to another & in my opinion they should not have taken that risk. There have been people who suffer from mental health issues who have nearly given up, some even trying to end their own lives but then recovering to the point that they can barely recognize their past self & enjoy life greatly. Being in a position of authority & advising somone who is possibly in their worst moment, knowing they are depressed, hopeless, negative etc that they should not have children because it will only create more suffering is incredably unwise, unprofessional & the lack of empathy or use of critical thinking skills is appalling but sadly not suprising. There are also many smaller negative cycles that repeat, which would require even smaller intervention & resources yet many professionals along with academics do not focus on those, or suggest stringent enough measures, which I find biased as well as hypocritical. Parents which drug addiction issues who keep having babies, given the chance to care for them, then the babies get rescued & put into care. Or where somone is abusing their child yet they value reunification above the welfare of the child. The mismanagement of funds, including for neglected children & disabled people. For example here in the UK they would rather pay about £25,000 a year for a carer to push somone in a manual wheelchair, rather than pay up £5000 for an electric wheelchair they could drive for themselves so would not require a carer. Within the medical field they often make the same mistakes over & over again, more often than not they refuse to reflect or aknowledging their own biases, prejudices or failings. Rather than using it as an opportunity to learn, listen & improve, they merely claim it was a one off incident, claim to improve, minimize, blame others or claim there could have not been a better outcome despite that not being true. I do not think killing off, or not letting disabled people live would solve these fundamental problems, both in mismanagement, inability to see the big picture & prioritizing peoples quality of life. In fact many people who "think outside of the box" & come up with unique solutions tend to be neurodiverse. Similarly many people who are the most empathetic tend to have a condition or disability, like downs Syndrome, autism or ADHD. I just don't see how removing problem solving skills as well as kindness from the world is a sensible solution, to any problem. Also while I don't quite understand myself & it's not my main focus, many people report that until they form a bond with somone different to them, either through family or friendship, or they/a loved one become disabled themselves, only then are they able to appreciate their worth, become less prejudice, focus on what really matters & grow as a person. Yes the only way to guarantee that depression isn't passed down to the next generation is to not have another generation but that's like saying the only way to stop suffering is to murder everyone! It is an extreame overreaction & as you touch upon, why not focus on making the world a kinder, more flexible, supportive place, for everyone including those more vulnerable, rather than throwing it all away? This pandemic has highlighted to me just how selfish people are & many would prefer others to suffer greatly, or even die, as long as they don't have to do anything slightly difficult, effort inducing or even just inconvenient. Like that star fish on the beach story, we all have the capacity to help many others in our life time. It is mainly ideology, beliefs & values which hold societies back, rather than conditions or resources. However it isn't as simple as being positive but an entire way which people view the world, which has to be learned by many, if we do not let anyone who is different be born, how will they learn? As I mentioned, sometimes it takes somone who is different to come along to create huge changes in the world. Imagine where we would be if thousands of years ago, or even just hundred years ago Dr suggested to anyone who have a chronic condition or disability that they don't have children? We would not have anywhere near the level of scientific advancement, including physics but also engineering & construction. Nevermind literature, film, the arts in general, human rights & other unique creations or contributions which make this world a better, joyful, happier place.

[@washington9347]

They might not want their children to suffer the same way they did. It depends on the level of suffering caused by the mental illness.

[@elizabethmurphy5255]

Virginia was so brave & strong and beautiful May she rest in perfect peace 🥀

[@xyzllii]

Great...very interesting 3 parts...thank you for letting us see.

[@gwendolynbeecroft512]

Wonderful documentary can't get enough of Virgina's story. Intersting, intelligent, intricate, vulnerable, woman of words.

[@frogmouth]

Good documentary

[@Poemsapennyeach]

Lovely...enjoyed all 3 parts..))

[@bluegrasslass]

I would recommend anyone with an interest in Virginia Woolf to watch the film from which the background music is taken - The Hours. It's a wonderful work and what made me read 'Mrs Dalloway'

[@elizabethmurphy5255]

Love this tysm

[@wordscaninspire114]

Courageous woman. Grief and stress and creativity and psychological pain and unique expression of thinking.

[@theawkwards]

you gotta love the bloomsbury set....virginia woolf, em forster, katherine mansfield? gotta love 'em.

[@singinwildflower]

That music is actually by Philip Glass, from the film "The Hours". It's called Morning Passages. It's beautiful isn't it!?

[@jeanjeanjean8169]

so annoyed at people's lack of understanding, saying that she was courageous does not necessarily mean that they are glorifying suicide. People shouldn't be so literal in their understanding of such things. Also please keep in mind that it was a different time.

[@d4nhumphr3y93]

A texture, a richness of observation.

[@sibengerard1856]

4:35; ''texture'' -I absolutely agree. Her diaries, essays, critical reviews mini and short fiction, will outlast the novels. They are of far more aesthetic quality than the novels.

[@Dayana-mk5ch]

4:40 - About her diaries and letters.

[@lizzykiss441]

such an inspirational lady, what a sad but brave story of a courageous woman who is in a terrible situation. r.i.p virginia. godbless you!!

[@bgmiller5]

Very inspirational that she left on her own terms, while in a lucid capacity.

[@clodiamandes7153]

Sometimes we get blinded by the selfish fact of wanting to have a loved one alive when they are really ready to move to the other side.

[@divsunhinged]

i am going to quote the lovely words you wrote . They are bitter and true, the definition of raw . thanks a lot [ as for the videos, i am just glad i discovered virginia ]

[@hals9058]

i feel so mad about people, scholars even, who try to glorify suicide and also determinedly ignore the impact of illness and abuse on people like woolf. the one scholar in this with the bob who calls woolf's suicide courageous-- she clearly thinks one is better off dead than continuing to live with mental illness, would rather see disabled people disappear than keep fighting and writing. I know so many people (and am a person) who weigh the pain of survival against the simplicity of death but I know I would prefer all my friends (some of whom live with bipolar, like woolf, in addition to chronic illnesses) live. In her better times, I think this is what woolf stood for too, surely? She wrote "On Being Ill". She saw that one needn't be healthy all the time to think worthwhile thoughts and be worth something. I mean I don't know. But I would like to think.

[@MoeshaODonkor]

I understand where you're coming from, but I don't see it as a "glorifying" of suicide at all. One cannot deny the fact that Woolf's suicide was indeed courageous. Obviously, her friends and family would have loved to see her live; however, sometimes it gets to a point where it just feels like life is no longer worth living, which, quite obviously, Virginia Woolf was at. Her constant struggle does show that she fought; she didn't just give up at her first ever breakdown - she lived through several, survived them and showed that, yes, she did believe it was okay not to be okay sometimes. However, when things just got a little too much, she probably came to a decision that it wasn't just worth it to live for the sake of living, which I completely agree with - that doesn't mean people who hold this viewpoint "glorify" suicide, it's just that they can identify with the reasons people decide to do it.

[@Px828]

+Hal Schrieve Agreed. It is horrible to sit in one's ivory tower and say someone else is better off dead.

[@HejiraWaves]

I don't think Hermione Lee was saying that Woolf is better off dead. That was 1941 and there wasn't even an accurate diagnosis for bi-polar disorder let alone any kind of reasonable or effective treatment for it. There was also the very real threat of a Nazi invasion of England. Virginia's own sister had told her that she had to discipline herself or keep a grip on her sanity. I can't remember the exact words. I think the main point that Hermione Lee was trying to make was that Woolf's suicide was not a selfish act of escaping what was a harrowing existence but rather an act of freeing her husband and family from the responsibility and potential burden of having to care for an incurably sick loved one in a time of high stress and fear.

[@spiritisalive1]

Hal S I'm with you.. I don't like the word courageous connected with suicide. I understand she must have been in intense pain. All she wanted to do was escape. But when it comes to the word courageous, suicide does not come to mind.

[@nadiel2012]

Virginia said that her hallucinations/paranoia was getting worse. Remember there were no medications for such symptoms at that time. Depression and Hallucinations can be hellish experiences. She was a rational and intelligent woman and made her decision, yes courageously.

[@terricrisp3585]

To those of you who really know NOTHING about suicide - your comments simply sicken me.

[@user-eo8jx7jq4u]

I don't think that he meant to offend anyone. If you go back and listen to his words again, and take your emotion out of the picture, you can't say that he's entirely wrong. It just sticks in our throats because we loved her so. We must refrain from jumping on to the offended bandwagon at every opportunity. People are entitled to voice their opinion and should not be discouraged from doing so. Virginia would surely agree with this statement, don't you think? I have also suffered with depression and mental affliction my entire life.

[@analogasmr]

Regardless of how many thumbs up you receive, you're still wrong. In the context of Virginia Woolf, who was at the time 59 years old, who was very familiar with the severe consequences of dealing with own mental disorder, I think she knew that it was her time. She gave up and I can't fault her for that. Also, her life was far from wasteful. Very far from wasteful.

[@kaloyianni]

Its Philip Glass from the film The Hours

[@goodstorylover]

Thank you for this really interesting and informative documentary.I have been fascinated by the people who actually knew her, especially the son of Vita Sackville - West.It is sad that Virginia Woolf lived in times before the modern psychiatric medication, she could have been spared a lot of suffering.What would be her books like in that case, I wonder.

[@gaylemc2692]

I fear the medications today would numb her to the talents she's so uniquely possessed.

[@Nonpeon]

That which fed her spirit as a youth was carted off cruelly by death and maltreatment, so that her spirit slowly and progressively became emaciated until she nobly freed it from its physical prison. Strangely she was a good swimmer, yet she "forced herself to die in the cold water of the river." She was resolute in her determination to undress her spirit from its strangling clothing. And it ascended smiling. That is clear.

[@joyunicycle]

Just looking at that river is pretty haunting and sad knowing that's where she drowned herself.

[@tedbates1236]

Sad.

[@weddie24]

Olivier Bell was not VW's niece; she was married to Vanessa's son. Niece-in-law?

[@jdollinter]

It's not that hard to die in cold water, she may of been a good swimmer but once she'd been in that cold early spring water for a few minutes all strength went out of her muscles.Wasn't she also a middle aged women plagued by a lifetime of health problems? .There was nothing gallant about her death, especially to the people whom found her body after it had been in the water for a month.

[@frogmouth]

Muddled thinking. The courageous bit was overcoming fear and carrying it off. She wasn't a teenager or young person who hadn't had a shot at life and coping with pain . She had staved off major attacks for years and just didn't want to go there again. She wrote Leonard a grateful letter. She was 59. Old enough to make her own decisions methinks

[@LibertyLeslie]

It is amazing how people try and convince themselves and others that suicide is some noble act or courage. I find it quit the opposite.Maybe your excuse is colored by her work which I have not had the experience to really enjoy.

[@73kdt]

Well your clearly incredibly lucky to not suffer from any mental health illness.

[@LibertyLeslie]

I am?.......Maybe I just refuse to act on it to the point of a irreparable separation from the God I love.

[@73kdt]

Well done you found god too aren't you blessed!

[@cgfyffygugugug3552]

You have not had the experience because you Can't understand her works.. do not judge and you Will not be judged said jesus Christ ... aren't you Christian?

[@electraheart361]

I don't like the way contributors romanticised and tried to put a positive spin on her suicide.

[@surrected4526]

Dear Scholars: Her suicide was a courageous decision? Had she drowned her husband in the river, it would have been a cruel act of murder; yet drowning herself is seen as an act of courage? For all the despairing reasons, past and present, that she deemed it absolutely necessary to end her life, to kill herself, to murder herself, courage is not among them. Courage means the ability to face difficulty without fear, to endure pain, danger, etc. Suicide is cowardly. Suicide is an escape route. Suicide is fleeing from danger. Suicide is running out the backdoor. Suicide is premeditated murder. When a literary genius commits suicide, you don’t get to call it “courageous.”

[@sebgr7604]

You are speaking here from a very privileged position, as you presumably do not suffer the mental anguishes and turmoil she did. For one of the brightest minds of her time to feel her intellect - the essence of her personality - running through her fingers, her logic escaping her rationality, her grip on reality slipping -- again, this must have been hell, pain beyond description. Her decision was courageous in so far, as she was aware of what she was doing - it was a well-reflected decision, and thus must have brought her tremendous pain. But she did it none the less, to save herself and her loved ones. In order to pursue such a plan indeed requires quite a lot of courage, a lot of 'pluck', as this most certainly is not an 'easy' way out, if you are fully aware of what that drastic step entails. I think all of us should be cautious to place ourselves upon too high a horse, judging others before asking ourselves whether certain acts, a certain kind of logic, doesn't posses a validation which we just might not be able to grasp from our own position.

[@clairenoon4070]

surrected4526 - What utter nonsense!

[@surrected4526]

@@clairenoon4070 Exactly!