The Mind Hides the Score | Dr Bessel van der Kolk on Trauma and the Mind.

[@SimoniousB]

Bessel’s pushback on black and white thinking is sophisticated. And, over time, the interviewer got it… He builds on knowledge ‘carefully’ rather than automatically breaking it down to fundamental parts. Thinking in black / white (race), man / woman (gender) and rich / poor (class) is just anti intellectual rhetoric. The biggest turnoff with social media is the saturation of this type of content. You know, so called influencers with their tag lines of game changers, secret knowledge and ego driven ’answers’ without the need for understanding or criticism of the question. It’s great to hear an interview where the speaker pushes back on that.

[@my1creation]

I was looking for this comment 👏🏽

[@artynegelen786]

One day in the future Dr. Bessel van der Kolk will be named one of the worlds healers. Some others are Peter levine, Stephen Porges and Gabor Mate. I am eternally grateful for the work they do.

[@Amoki86]

Peter Walker too. His work on how to walk away from CPTSD is life-saving for many.

[@MichaelGarbarino-t4w]

Gabor Mate makes too many leaps in stating conclusions and doesn’t strictly follow the scientific method. I have found him to be more attention seeking than detached scientist. Too much reliance on anecdotal example and subjective experience leads to bad advice that harms people. I recommend Dr. Russell Barkley as a great educator on ADHD and how it manifests in the population, as I have come to understand only in my 6th decade of life that the underlying ADHD has had the greatest impact, and undiagnosed, led to experiences that rendered me dealing with C-PTSD. Co-morbidities certainly complicate things, avoidance of generalities and black/white thinking helps one un-ravel the mysteries of one’s attachment wounds, and healing them. Best to you.

[@penyarol83]

And Alice Miller, she truly saved me ✨ 🙏🏼 ✨

[@springwood1331]

@Penny also Janina Fisher and Pat Ogden, I've found their work really helpful

[@gingermckee1811]

You’ve just named some of the souls who have helped me survive over the past few years. Agree 1000%.

[@cynthiahoag2941]

The problem of trauma is not what happened in the past, but in the neurological wounding and mis-wiring. The wound can be healed. One can get re-regulated. Physical and emotional safety are part of healing. I didn't get a lot of support as a child, but I can get my nervous system regulated, regardless of what anyone else does to me today. Healing is real and available. Pain is inevitable but suffering is optional.

[@KunalKadu]

How do you get your nervous system regulated?

[@cynthiahoag2941]

@@KunalKadu I write my fears and resentments and then do restful meditation. It's a technique I learned for free from the Crappy Childhood Fairy.

[@pennykelly7166]

The nervious system and long term the trauma goes to both lymphatic and fasia. Fasvia wraps around all anatomical structures muscles ligaments nervous system and all organs systems. Cranial, cranio sacral and approaches of the involuntary movent t mrchanism especially when practotioner and person with physical pshycholgical and spirtual issues in a safe and respectful way.

[@LilyL-o1r]

@@KunalKadu Bessel van der Kolk's research shows that the *body* is where the trauma resides. You re-regulate by working with the body with a safe, qualified expert. The challenge is that no one is certified in trauma work, and so a lot of people pretend to be knowledgeable -- and may sincerely but mistakenly believe they are knowledgeable -- but are doing harm. For example, it has become fashionable for psych therapists to claim they work with trauma, which they can legally do, even without any special training at this time. But if they are not trained by Dr vdK et al, then their methods are wrong, following the DSM IV into trying CBT, which has been demonstrated to be unhelpful at best and very harmful at worst for trauma survivors, who should not be forced to relive their trauma. CBT assumes that talking about it will resolve everything. That is just not true, and can cause harm. Also, it was very surprising that the interviewer's remarks at 14:50 - 15:15 were so very wrong that Dr. vdK felt motivated to say, let's not talk s*$#. The interviewer had thought there was a difference between the mind and body, which is the biggest possible mistake, one which shows that the interviewer knows nothing at all about BvdK's work, not even the most basic idea. Everything Dr. vdK has done, has shown that the mind and body *are* the same. That's the most basic part of his findings and teachings. In fact, cognitive behavioral therapy is very dangerous for trauma survivors, as it will continue to re-traumatize them. Survivors don't need to be required to remember and relive the trauma or its details. That is unnecessarily re-traumatizing. Elsewhere -- for example, in his many books and public lectures -- Dr. vdK describes how to learn to retrain the body. It is the *body* which must be retrained. That is where the trauma is stored. Also, Dr. Peter Levine, an associate of Dr vdK's, also provides excellent instructions and helpful information in many KZbin videos and in his published books, as well.

[@twilit]

maybe thats the case in your experience but there’s lots of experiences and it’s not the case it’s optional for everyone just from a bit of journaling and meditation.

[@jfdc8432]

This answers a lot of questions! As he said: Who was there for you during and after a traumatic event. It’s more about whether you were alone or supported, than it is about the trauma. Also whether you were able to take action or not. Physical immobilization worsens the impact of the trauma.

[@jessicagarland5848]

I agree

[@c.t5136]

The Body Keeps the Score changed my life. Thank you for writing that book.

[@kathycarlson7947]

For me, too.

[@MichaelGarbarino-t4w]

It could have been an interview of such deeper depth, had the interviewer read his works and prepared her questions accordingly. She came unprepared and that’s not very respectful of the genius of Dr. Bessel van der Kolk’s groundbreaking work on trauma. I’d love to see an interviewer who “gets it”, the resulting conversation would be so much deeper and more enlightening.

[@ybrueckner5589]

She substitutes confidence for competence

[@the_real_littlepinkhousefly]

In another clip of this interview she quotes his book The Body Keeps the Score. I don't know if that was just pulled out of the air, but it could also indicate that she had at least read that.

[@kathiemudge9644]

However, although maybe not intentional, she is asking questions that other people may ask him that may have also not read his works entirely so in that way it may help people

[@LilyL-o1r]

I appreciate that this interview is made available, and thank you for that. That said, I'm very surprised that the interviewer was not already more familiar with Bessel van der Kolk's work. For example, she said, "researchers have found -- ," and she even took the lead to explain (wrongly) to the world's leading expert what trauma is, how it happens, etc, framing questions that pigeonholed a (wrong) response. She clearly didn't realize that the "researchers have found" could refer only to Dr. van der Kolk primarily. It was really surprising to see how poorly prepared she was, given this great opportunity. Dr. van der Kolk was forced into a position of saying, from the beginning, "I wouldn't automatically assume -- ." And ultimately, he found himself having to say, "No, no, no!" Eventually, Dr van der Kolk gently offered a correction, "Well, in our research, we did find -- ." Yet even with that, it seemed the interviewer still did not understand that it is *his* research that has pioneered this field. How is it possible that she expected to tell him, rather than to ask him, (and wrongly, at that) about the characteristics and development of trauma? It surprised me that she asserted her own understanding rather than framing questions for her guest. For example, instead of driving toward specific questions (very specific questions about the DSM; her own inexpert ideas about what causes trauma; her generally uninformed guesses that seemed to anticipate and pigeonhole a response, etc), she might instead have asked the following: What is trauma? Is it different from person to person, and if so, why? What were the most interesting or surprising findings in your research? What are the best ways to treat trauma? What should we do differently, now that we have more information? What myths and misunderstandings currently exist around trauma, and how can we correct those misunderstandings? Dr. van der Kolk is sufficiently gentle and eloquent to have found a way to make corrections and to drive the discussion toward the central findings in order to share the salient information that is most helpful for the audience. However, he might have gotten there more quickly and might have been able to describe his methods in more detail, if the interviewer had refrained from guessing, had limited her remarks, and had given him more time to speak. For example, she might have said, "Please correct me if I misunderstand, but I heard that two different people might respond differently in similar circumstances. Is that true?" And then, since she is not being interviewed, let the guest speak and explain. It's important for interviewers to recognize that the audience is not there to hear the interviewer, but to understand Dr. van der Kolk. It doesn't elevate her to talk about what she thinks she knows; she is distracting at best, and is unfortunately wrong, as it turns out. It not only wastes time and distracts from the substance that the guest might otherwise share, but it is also irritating to the audience -- and no doubt to Dr. van der Kolk -- that he was thwarted rather than assisted to provide accurate information. I understand that under time pressure, an interviewer might not have or make time to learn everything about a guest, but it seemed that this interviewer had not not read anything about Dr. van der Kolk's seminal research. I really hope that she might prepare more carefully and give more time to the guest in the future. The best interviewer is generally invisible, able to encourage guests to provide substantive information, speaking only in order to draw out information. Like, on the one hand, I'm concerned about potentially hurting the interviewer's feelings. But on the other hand, I don't think she's likely to listen unless someone tells her very bluntly that this was not up to par, that there is a lot of lost opportunity here. This could have been so much better. I feel that Dr. van der Kolk's ideas were very barely described, because he had to first overcome the interviewer's misstatements. There is so much more that we can and need to learn from him, than the tiny introduction he was able to provide in this format. As always, he is kind and respectful. I'm sorry if I don't come across as kind and respectful, but I do think the interviewer deserves the opportunity to learn from this experience. I'm much more likely to watch Dr. van der Kolk's talks and lectures and talks than this channel. There's such possibility for your channel -- please work on continuous improvement and show the level of quality you can be capable of. Best wishes.

[@vivalavidaalameda]

You just traumatized the interviewer with your comment 😂😅🤣

[@boyfmbalcatta]

Some of the variables that I believe help with trauma A. Good parents, who give good advice, B. Self belief, important, but without (A), can be harder to gain. C. Good friends but once again friends change, you change, and D. 'TRY not let what happen to you or what you saw or happened to friends/family happen to others' very hard to do, sometimes hard to see/understand and enact; but try for them nd yourself.

[@nanszoo3092]

I had asthma as a child as well and then various other respiratory problems at different stages of my life well into my late 30s. A few years ago I started to have trouble breathing again when I was in my 50s which has still not gone away and which I think I will probably have to live with for whatever time I have left. This is the first time _In My Life_ that I have heard someone say that it is traumatic to not be able to breathe easily. But when I think back to certain chronic times in my life ... WOW. That actually explains some things... how unprotected I felt in my marriage for one. And it makes me wonder about a whole bunch of other things and reasons why I am the way I am - and why I feel so Stuck right now. This isn't the only trauma that I experienced, as a child or adult, but it is something I was unaware of being mentally traumatic. Until I heard those words. So far, tests have found no physical reason for my current physical symptoms which is one of the many reasons I am working through a lot of things with a mental health counselor ... so much to unpack after 60 years.

[@penyarol83]

Dr. Gabor Maté explains how asthma is a result of childhood traumatic stress... in his book When the Body Says No: Exploring the Stress-Disease Connection

[@jscire__872]

The whole concept of mind & body separation indeed seems like a strange remnant in our thinking. Psychology is fully physiological; our minds are not floating as separate entities from our bodies: our brains and our nervous systems. I love that he brought attention to that.

[@leeboriack8054]

Trauma creates a lifelong domino effect of looking through glasses that aren’t meant for you.

[@alexkuieh1565]

This guy is bright.

[@user-hb5qs7sy2v]

Unless this can be transfered into sucsessful and complete healing of trauma it remains accademic and the accademic thinking is dissociated from real life. However i agree that to bring itback to the reality of the body and feeling the effect there is the only way to heal trauma and the misassociation with healthy natural sensations … there is no link between shyc and body because there is no seperation. This guy is onto it

[@Alimck333]

The arrangement of those chairs look very uncomfortable

[@Cat-qo3ht]

They are in front of an audience, I assume, so they need to have the chairs somewhere ggtly facing the audience, not facing each other.

[@Levandetag]

Good to remember, is, violence, is not only physical, it is also, mental, emotional, and overstressing caused by a lot of our, stresses everyday, if not acknowledged, or understood, as, as important, it stays in our bodies, until, released. Good listening! And, what a Lovely FREEING: "Lets not talk shit here" =D at 14.56-15.16 forward, Just Love it

[@KB-wh9bu]

Yes AND add to it that if things happen in very early formative years, lacking the knowledge or frame of reference for "normal ". e g. Not knowing everyone else doesn't or shouldn't experience the same environment you did. Adds another layer to even realizing you're in need of healing. Can take awhile

[@Levandetag]

@@KB-wh9bu How do you know what I lived in my formative years? Or are you just guessing, or do you think I have lived through life, experiences we all go through without, even knowing anything, of me, this way, of answer is not so correct, and feels to me, as a lot of judgemental guessing. I havehad and have a longterm an interest in these topics, mostly, from a lot of educations bodyworking training, and some antistresstherapeutic techniques. And of course from meeting others in life. It does not meen I have lived it all, myself. Human Beings are very interesting, and the Why´s, in our different approaches towards life.

[@KB-wh9bu]

@Levandetag I didn't say YOU OR say ALL. NOTICE i said IF. I Was speaking both in hypothetical terms and personal experience. I'm not judging anyone that goes through it or saying that everyone does. I just know that, from my own experience as well as (like you said) researching and learning , formative years experiences DO change so much about us ( positive or negative), And changes the lens through which we view Life.. That's why it's called formative.

[@BBK96]

She should have read the book before interviewing him maybe?😅

[@LilyL-o1r]

Cringeworthy! Telling the expert wrong assumptions, and not recognizing that he is actually the expert - maybe not do that, right?!

[@kathleenhowe8134]

Do they ever read the book

[@Toni266-k4j]

Swimming helped me feel safe in my body .

[@Yinyanglasg]

Change the environment and u can heal

[@anjiiscovert6967]

I’ve commented a few times on trauma videos, without response. My father was a sadist, a former S.S. man who hated human beings. In the 1960’s an apparent victim of the camps recognized him and accused him, not to authorities but in person. Neither lived in Europe anymore but in Wisconsin, apparently blocks apart. I was frightened of people very early because during his violet tantrums, he often took me by the ear and dragged me over to look at dead people in horrible imagery of concentration camps. One day he kept me home from school, drove my mother to work, came back and called this fellow and told him he had proof that he was not that person. The man came over to our home to see his evidence, he entered the house, my father went to retrieve papers, but actually returned with a gun. Long story short, we went to the basement, he made the man kneel, forced me to stand in front of him, my HAND on the gun, his on top of mine, forcefully pressing my finger on the trigger. Close range, it blew his brains out and an eye and bone. I was an 8 year old child wildly enchanted with flowers, birds and the beauty of nature. I won’t get into details, but the body was removed and taken elsewhere. Later to keep me from speaking a word of this, he tied my hands behind my back, he lifted me wobbling and hung my from an unused laundry hook in the basement, ordered me not to scream on threat of death and left me in frenzied pain and silence for over an hour. It broke numerous shards of tiny bones in 5 vertebra where the soft tissue was under such pressure it broke the honeycomb of tiny bones. It dislocated a shoulder he yanked back in, left me with spinal cord compression in my neck, a bent esophagus, and 8 torn ligaments in my shoulders and chest. More than that it left me loveless, hatred, inanimate, trash, and turned everything inside out in terms of my beliefs. I woke up the next morning bent way over, holding my arms to the center of my chest, I was walking like an ape, my mother did nothing, never touched me, she was afraid, because police had come about the man the night before, called by someone who knew where he was going that day and then he had not returned. I’m a trauma victim with no help, actually I’m a step above, I’m a torture victim. As far as I can tell there is no help for that in America, torture supposedly doesn’t happen here. The therapists I’ve seen, have know personal or professional maps for this kind of thing. I’m 69 and still going it alone. Where do persons similar go, as far as I can tell, no one in the states works with people like me. It is one long isolation. It’s not the only insane moment, just the worst. Yes, I had amnesia, my very first thought the next more was the gore agitating my head, I remember thinking I must get this out of my head, it was too much for me. Most things from that time ended up in that void, nowadays various hells resurface. Any help out there? Anyone care?

[@maryannhoffman8333]

I was married to my ex-husband for 18 years. We grew up together. Had two children together. And he didn't know me at all. Only knew how to manipulate me.

[@elinope4745]

It might actually be a close friend that dies in front of you. I've lived through that.

[@the_real_littlepinkhousefly]

Great information. But what do you do about it? I have a good therapist, but I'm extremely complex in my trauma, and I feel like I need someone like Dr. Van Der Kolk, someone at his level of understanding and competence. Where do we go to find that? How would a regular person even afford it? So yay, now I know what's wrong with me, but I have no idea how to fix it, and my therapist isn't on this level even though she's trying and doing her best. It's very frustrating.

[@manoov78]

@the_real_littlepinkhousefly, for a new perspective on our trauma and self regulation we can rely on experts. The best way is by owning ourselves the responsibility and by our renewed thinking be the master of our inner neurological circuitry and be radiating joy to others and to ourselves...

[@edatatu2739]

I think what he means is that the person who bears the greatest brunt of your unhealed trauma is your spouse.

[@annchurchill2638]

We are all born with different degrees of resilience.,

[@penyarol83]

Resilience is largely a matter of nurture

[@MishMacky]

Its more to do with what happens after we are born that determines our resilience

[@PaigeSquared]

Insurance isnt a good enough reason to not have an adequate diagnostics manual.

[@barbarachipman9436]

That is true. I developed a serious OCD. Disorder

[@singha6]

Dr- ‘You are so Western- you separate the mind and the body!’ Yes, Buddhism says that the mind and body are inseparable.

[@hafizwaliy]

trauma for each people is like fingerprints. It different and has different approach to each psychologist to make research and find the right way to cope the illness to make the trauma people feel better to live their life

[@Star-dj1kw]

✅ good video

[@meloearth]

Thank you for calling the DSM5 "SHIT". 😘😍

[@user-hb5qs7sy2v]

Unless this can be transfered into sucsessful and complete healing of trauma it remains accademic and the accademic thinking is dissociated from real life.

[@Cynthia-Landers]

But have you actually READ his book, *The Body Keeps The Score*

[@user-hb5qs7sy2v]

@@Cynthia-Landers

[@martin101harris5]

Sounds like Boris Becker.

[@peacefulisland67]

People who know and accept their position in this life are not traumatized by potentially disturbing events. They react with appropriate emotions, but remain in their position spiritually. Lack of spiritual understanding, the bigger picture, is trauma inducing.

[@Cynthia-Landers]

You understand, don't you, that _children,_ because of their powerless position in life, get traumatized horrendously? Would you say it's reasonable to expect children to "know and accept their position in this life" ??

[@peacefulisland67]

@@Cynthia-Landers Yes. When they have been given the love, acceptance and knowledge they naturally require, even children can come out of "traumatic" circumstances relatively free of lingering trauma symptoms. All adults were once children, and I'm willing to bet that the ones who are readily traumatized by both large and small events had poor or no attachment as children. They were given little to no knowledge as to their inherent value in the world just as they are, and no skills to have purpose and meaning. Men and women who go off to war are affected differently because of the messages they were given as CHILDREN. Not because they had different experiences. The way we treat children is imperative in order that they grow to become people who "know and accept their position in this life". I do not, as yet, know mine and might never because of complex PTSD and an ACE score of 10. Though I don't wear t-shirts that say so or preface opinions with that info in general. Guess social media is actually NOT a great form of expression and communication. 😑🙏

[@penyarol83]

@@peacefulisland67I recommend reading Alice Miller. She truly healed me, and I was in a very bad way. It was like getting the highest-quality therapy, in book form.

[@4estdweller4ever]

Having to listen to the interviewer asking inane questions is annoying. She is so slow to absorb anything he tries to explain and her next question shows she doesn’t get it at all. Dr van der Kolk seems a little annoyed too and probably wishes his interviewer had even rudimentary understanding of the subject. Terrible interview.

[@KarenSharin]

Barely into this video and I already want that woman to be quiet so that he can give us some knowledge. She is beyond irritating.

[@michaelcorlet2998]

Gee wizz were did you get that interviewer from. Not very bright.way to intellectual.

[@melissabird23]

READ THE BOOK BEFORE YOU INTERVIEW ITS AUTHOR

[@MillieMoon2024]

I'm surprised being who he is that Bessel maintains the only person who really knows you is who you're married to. Firstly not everyone gets married. Second what about the epidemic of domestic abuse and third, as someone who is married, I can safely say my partner does NOT know me very well. I think his work is amazing, obviously. But he makes a few sweeping statements here I don't agree with.. Including about superficial people. He comes across as all knowing.

[@pauliepaul500]

He is correct. Your partner will see your patterns and trauma more clearly than you will.

[@MillieMoon2024]

@pauliepaul500 interesting you think you know this. My partner will know some patterns but not all by any means. He has autism and isn't aware of alot of things. I've done years of therapy and know myself and my patterns quite well. And he's blissfully unaware. Please try not to tell others you know their situation without knowing who they even are!

[@jcr-studios]

I agree, but I think he’s just using that as an example of someone who potentially may be the closest to you.

[@MillieMoon2024]

@jcr-studios yes that makes sense for sure... I guess the issue with making statements like that is it can stand out for those people it doesn't relate to (which in this instance will be rather a few!) ... But I do see what you're saying

[@jcr-studios]

@@MillieMoon2024 Yes, I agree with making statements like that. I can't relate to it either. It also presupposes that our spouse/partner is capable of knowing and understanding us better than ourselves and that is so far from the truth in many (perhaps most?) relationships. Additionally, it presupposes that our partner is psychologically capable of distinguishing their own "stuff" from ours in order to clearly see ours.

[@distracted5767]

This is too annoying to listen too. Why is it made such a spectacle

[@charlesdavidson9752]

I shouldn't have to struggle to get it. Is he speaking to the choir? His none answers and confusing answers to those of us who are not familiar with his work or jargon, potentially has the ability to create trauma! I don't have the same issue with Dr Gabor Mate.