The Mission Beyond Darkness-Battle of the Philippine Sea Part 2 with Jon Parshall: Episode 314

[@BP-1988]

During this battle, my father was part of Bombing 16 from the USS Lexington flying an SBD in Ralph Weymouth's squadron. Carrying 1000 pound bombs, on their leg out, he said that they plotted their course staying low gradually climbing to arrive at 15,000 feet over the target area. As he started down, he noticed a group of TBFs being jumped by Zeros. One TBF was shot down and fortunately they saw 3 chutes and all of the crew were later rescued by a PBY. My father said his dive went well and he released his bomb at 1500 feet. At his release point his said his canopy and windshield had fogged badly because his SBD had a malfunctioning heater. As he pulled out of his dive, his gunner confirmed that they had gotten a hit. He didn't say or may not have known at the time which carrier he dove on but we now think it was either the Hiyo or the Junyo.. Because of the fogged canopy and wondering where he was, he jammed open the cockpit and found they were directly over a Japanese DD at about 500 feet which was firing at them. Fortunately they were not very good and his plane didn't take a hit. He worked his way around the entire Japanese fleet to get to their rendezvous point for the long trip back. During the return, he also turned off his radio because he couldn't stand the what he was hearing. When he got back to the Lexington, low on fuel, he found the the flight deck had been fouled by an SB2C. (Thank you Harold Buell.) Later, Buell tried to justify his actions of ignoring the wave off in his book "Dauntless Helldivers". His actions killed two, while endangering the lives of others trying to land, including the life of my father. When my father was finally was able to land, only 14 of the 34 Lexington planes found their way back to their home carrier. Despite what they had just gone through, I think Seth, Bill and Jon are right on about some of the aviators and their determination to finish off the Japanese fleet. My father said that his squadron had talked about and considered a followup attack the next morning. Weymouth put together a group of 10-12 volunteers dive bombers who would attack. It would be a one-way mission with the proviso that after the attack they would ditch in mass and be picked up by a destroyer. He said that the plan was rejected by the admiral's staff because their primary mission was to protect the landings on Saipan and Guam. For his actions during the battle my father was awarded the Navy Cross.

[@Bob.W.]

Thanks for the post.

[@flparkermdpc]

I am very moved when we hear confirmation from people who were participants. Through a son is close enough. Thanks for the post. My dad was not able to join the fighting forces because the draft board prevented his desire to be an aviator because he was an electrical engineer with G.E. who provided turbines and communications, and other "high tech" equipment for Liberty ships. He was responsible for the checkout of the production from the Kaiser shipyards located on the Columbia River which empties directly into the Pacific. The mouth of the Columbia provides its own gate and security. The currents at the mouth are very dangerous to small vessels. They capsize, or run smaller craft onto reefs and rocks, and sand bars whose locations are constantly changing in the rip currents and tides. On one checkout cruise, the ship being checked out was just into the ocean maybe a mile offshore, when a Japanese submarine surfaced nearby. After determining that this ship was empty, the sub moved off and sub merged. Not worth a torpedo empty. No shots were fired although several crew manned the AA weapons. The civilian contractors, my Dad and others, told the crew of new sailors that they shouldn't start something they could not finish. The crew weren't trained or shaving yet. These ships got the men and all their stuff to the Pacific War. Dad was disappointed for awhile at the decision of the draft board, but my mother sure was not. She had brothers and other relatives and Coast Guard Academy classmates in harms way... Two died in early in the war presaging Kamikaze attacks by crashing their plane onto a surfaced U-boat off New Jersy. An order stopped those kinds of attacks by our people, but we were getting badly mauled by the U-Boats and were frustrated at our primitive anti submarine effort. It wasn't long before radar was on patrol planes, but to hear Mom tell it, it was forever. She was genuinely scared. She didn't know what we now do.

[@user-gp8dw3ek3b]

I don't think Harold Buell should be blamed as much some, we don't know all the circumstances for sure and we weren't there, everyone's nerves are on edge for a night landing. Very proud of your father's actions here!

[@BP-1988]

My father was there and had first hand knowledge of what happened. I've talked with a number of WWII historians and we all share the same opinion.

[@flparkermdpc]

I already said my piece but thanks again for your post. If you have anything to donate to the WW2 or Nimitz museum, I'm sure your first person account about the second day of this Battle would find its way onto an exhibit.

[@haldorasgirson9463]

"Another guest?" You have THE guest, the incomparable Jon Parshall. Amazing episode, as usual.

[@Phoenix-ej2sh]

So let me make sure I understand something here. Jon Parshall, co-author of one of my favorite historical volumes and frequent guest on one of my favorite KZbin channels, also built plastic models of ships, plays Overwatch, and is a bassist? My doe-eyed fanhood of this man is growing by the day.

[@tougheddie7297]

Love this channel, coming from sunny England coverage of the Japanese war is basically Pearl Harbour, Mid way, a few islands then victory. This channel has shown how bloody hard victory was for Americans and allies, I never know how many low's had to be overcome before the tide started to turn. Keep it up. Also, John is a great guest speaking

[@joebombero1]

When my brother lived in England in the early 2000s he got some great books on the Dutch East Indies and Singapore from used-book stores.

[@ramal5708]

I thought the War in Pacific became relevant in the case after Midway, when the BPF (British Pacific Fleet) starting to join the Fast Carrier Task Force starting from Iwo Jima onwards. Since it was worth reporting rather than battles like Philippines Sea, Leyte Gulf etc.

[@zotfotpiq]

hypohystericalhistory has a great, comprehensive, respectful take on the south pacific campaign that really opened my eyes to the contributions of the Australians and Kiwis. i highly recommend them.

[@mikew8214]

American here, it's about the same here. We focus a lot more on the European theater. I knew the major naval and air battles in the Pacific (the exciting part with battleships, carriers and cool looking planes) but not really the fighting on the islands except Guadalcanal and Iwo Jima. I'm loving this podcast!

[@kilcar]

Hi, in 1964, as a 12 year old I walked about the neighborhood around St. Paul's cathedral in London. Both my mother and father were US Navy, dad in the thick of it in the Pacific. The damage from the German Blitz was still very obvious in London 19 years after VE Day in 1945. ( I have 8mm color film taken that day in September )Few Americans then, and a dismally few now, know the sacrifice every British civilian and Military endured from 1940 to 1945, and the rationing afterwards. I would like to see an equivalent presentation about Britain's huge contribution to the destruction of Fascist Germany. Cheers!

[@Iamkcs2c]

Aww guys, keeping the Tuesday schedule this week is a real treat. I appreciate it.

[@Antmann71]

I so look forward to these every Tuesday night. Brilliance

[@servantofgod5642]

I too.

[@The_Red_Off_Road]

That’s awesome. We get it for our morning wake-up routines! I love it!

[@williamault2490]

Great show as always!! Yes the, to a question posed by Cmdr Totey, yes the Hellcat fighters had hard points under the wings for bombs, and later in the war rockets, as well as hard points underneath the fuselage for an external drop tank. Great show as always. On a side note, my sister gave me John Parshall and Anthony Tullys book “Shattered Sword” for Christmas. We are well and truly blessed today.

[@haldorasgirson9463]

It is a great read. And the notation section in the back is invaluable for finding source material.

[@jonparshall]

Thanks, and I really hope you enjoy it!

[@F4FWildcat]

“These aviators…” just what do you mean Captain? 😂😂😂 that was classic!

[@kennhi2008]

I look forward to these podcast every Tuesday morning. This is the best WWII podcast series on KZbin

[@haldorasgirson9463]

Best WWII Pacific Campaign podcast. For total WW2 coverage it is hard to beat Second World War - Day by Day. And for Navel history in general Drachinifel has been the pioneer here on KZbin. If you aren't following him two of best are: "The Mark 14 Torpedo, Failure is like Onions" and "French Pre-Dreadnoughts - When Hotels go to War." Military history enthusiast are truly living in a blessed time.

[@flparkermdpc]

One of the attributes of these fine gentlemen is their courtesy to one another and guests. Nobody talks over another. They are quick to cut off a conversation conflict. Everyone is a good listener as well as precise in their speech. There are a couple whose hosts blab on, ruining otherwise good content.

[@richardbennett1856]

By Far. I agree.

[@Otisthelesser]

I was like 401. You guys are 5 min into this episode and it’s already up to 1600. You guys are doing great work and people are watching. Couldn’t happen to a better group of guys.

[@flparkermdpc]

Well said.

[@russfranck3491]

You guys are the best and John is a joy, keep it up

[@haldorasgirson9463]

And I thought I knew a lot about the WW2 Pacific campaign. Watched Victory at Sea as a preteen. The Fighting Lady, Tora Tora Tora everything I could find. I couldn't tell you how many documentaries I watched, but if it was in black and white and had warships or warplanes then I was there. Moving past the fiction, I starting reading memoirs. Guadalcanal Diary, With the Old Breed and lots more. Semi-memoirs like Goodbye Darkness (which is an incredibly moving retelling of WW2 marine memoirs. Then I heard about the Shattered Sword (Drachinifel introduced Jon to me) and it was like an awakening, battles retold in greater depth without the "inevitable march to victory" refrain, not ignoring the mistakes we made (mitscher's gun decking his report after Midway), academic rigor! Thanks very much to you three, plus Drachinifel and HypoHystericalHistory it is like WW2 is an entirely new war to me. Everything I "thought" I knew is open to at least re-examination. I am having a ball with this.

[@cragnamorra]

You might find interesting Gerhard Weinberg's "A World At Arms". Very high-level overview; zero tactical- or operational-level focus. But I can't remember any other WW2 work which so readily reflected the strategic/political-level complexity, uncertainty, and interconnectedness among all the major theaters like Weinberg did here. Insights almost every page (lol, over 1000 of 'em) that had never occurred to me or I'd not seen before (and I've been reading about WW2 more or less continuously for 40+ years).

[@haldorasgirson9463]

@@cragnamorra Thank you for the reference. I am retiring next year and will have more time. I plan on doing more reading and a big chunk will be historical in subject matter.

[@robertzimmerman6772]

This podcast is the gift that keeps on giving. Hope you gentlemen have a happy new year!

[@SirLurkALot]

There IS an access hatch on the underside of the Grumman TBF/TBM Avenger. In fact, the only way for the turret gunner to get out while airborne was to climb down into the radioman’s compartment, put on a parachute, and then jump out that hatch. I believe the turret confines were too restrictive to accommodate a parachute in flight.

[@gagamba9198]

Great episode. Thanks for making my 2023 even better. Happy New Year and regards to you all.

[@EnzedderEntertainment]

Fantastic talk as ever gentlemen! Hope you all had a very Happy Christmas and have a good New year

[@user-gp8dw3ek3b]

Great informative stuff, hey how about an episode on the United States Merchant Marine in the Pacific war? Talk about unsung heroes!

[@craigjones3846]

Started giving a thumbs up right out of the gate with this channel. Every single one is a grand slam. Thanks to all you guys for such great content.

[@jammininthepast]

Thanks gentlemen, I appreciate your presentation. Shout out to Jon I loved Shattered Sword and his work here is excellent. Shout out to John McManus (who I picked up on here) I am a chapter into the third book of his trilogy and recommend his books highly, page turners. Seth, Captain Toti great work. Thanks you're appreciated

[@gregcollins7602]

Thanks guys. I appreciate seeing Torpedo Tuesday between Christmas and new years. Excellent series. Looking forward to next year!

[@elwrongo]

Just finished the audio book of Jon Parshall's Shattered Sword, all about Midway, fabulous, really enjoyed it. Thoroughly recommended, thanks Jon.

[@jonparshall]

Glad you liked it!

[@jliller]

@@jonparshall You mentioned in this video that Anthony Tully is coming out with a book about Philippine Sea. Any idea of a release date?

[@terrylawrence7498]

I loved the talking heads. Tina was my favorite. I play drums. Jon plays bass, right on. Now I know Tinas Dad was there. I'm happy he made it. Your show is one of a kind. Maps, more maps. Thanks Seth and CPT Bill. Your the best.

[@brovold72]

I'm a fresh TH convert, having just seen "Stop Making Sense" in the theater last month, so the little aside re: Tina W was really fun.

[@jonparshall]

Tina's a great player. I play drums, too, actually, but much better on bass! Be well!

[@william_toti]

My son was a professional drummer for 4 years then had to figure out how to make a living.

[@jonparshall]

@@william_toti Which is why I *immediately* made my way into the highly remunerative field of naval history! Running a hedge fund? Pffft! I'm goin' where the *big bucks* are, m'dude...

[@terrylawrence7498]

@@jonparshall Hello. Love the things You put out. You once told Drac how japanese planes that manage to return from Santa Cruz. You said the pilots were shell shocked. 20, 40, and 5 inch. We let em have it. Keep at it. Built many models over 58 years. Love the F4U, the Big E. Wished she was saved. Sara to.

[@thomasmitchell7645]

Re the relationship between Marc Mitscher and Ray Spruance: an analogious situation existed in the IDF re Ariel Sharon. Sharon tended to lie often in reports and his superiors knew it. But they respected his abilities. He wasn't promoted for some 7 years after the 1956 Sinai War because of his disregard for orders and his attempt to lie his way out of the situation. But he later made up for it in the 1967 and 1973 wars when as an armored commander he charged across the Sinai and later crossed the Suez Canal into Egypt and surrounded the Egyptian 2nd Army. Chief of Staff Moshe Dayan's bet on Sharon eventually delivering had paid off. Dayan refused to kick him out of the army and Yitzhak Rabin promoted him in 1964. In 1943-44 the U.S. was not between wars and eventually needed all the talented officers that it could find. So the situation was even more dire and urgent than in the IDF during Sharon's mid-career.

[@MrFrikkenfrakken]

Thank you all as usual for the pleasure of education on a topic I sadly had little knowledge. Big picture point #4 - this is a great podcast/channel. Well done Seth, Bill and Jon.

[@flparkermdpc]

I'm posting here to add my number to the deserved avalanche of praise. Launched on THE holiday of the year. Well done. Makes the day after significant ❤😊 I couldn't stand your suspense building pace, so I drug out HORNFISCHER's Fleet at Flood Tide and read ahead. Free of suspense I could relax and listen closely. His death was/is a real loss to the voices of the Historians. But we do have Jon who provides plenty of content & color.

[@jovianmole1]

Hear, hear. Love James's books.

[@PalleRasmussen]

Jon seems to be everywhere right now. Just watched a panel discussion with him at the WW2 museum and you upload this.

[@william_toti]

We were there

[@PalleRasmussen]

@@william_toti Hey Bill, I thought as much. I am always glad to see him, we are Facebook friends and he is perpetually nice and kind and intelligent. But I will add that from we see of you on the channel, so are you.

[@patrickshanley4466]

Same comment as with previous incidents. Awesome discussion and insights in EVERY episode. You guys are the best!!

[@user-ur6rp8fh4w]

Wonderful knowledgeable, descriptive discussions of the Pacific theater of operations 1942-45. You guys are the greatest. I can't wait fot the next installment.

[@denniswiemer72]

Great that you leave in some fun conversational humor.....Bill? Such moments make this series enjoyable, while still informative. Thanks!

[@aviation1776]

Tremendous as always 👏 a wonderful post Christmas treat getting this excellent analysis

[@Titus-as-the-Roman]

Just because, you fellas are doing the world a great service, the fact you're a fun bunch to watch, & interact with, sort of, makes it even better. No, Thank You

[@william_toti]

Thank you

[@ganndeber1621]

Another excellent video, informative and well presented

[@donaldspencer1052]

You guys rock! Love the cast! Hey could you possibly do a show or two on the operational aspects of the PTO? Idk, like maps and an explanation of how they moved that massive amount of stuff to the front? Also, where did it all come from? The planes came from Long Island, the oil came from Texas… Anyway, love your show!

[@GenDischarges]

Gents, with due respect, I think that you have skirted around the real issue that Mitscher's decision to launch an attack late in the afternoon was just a bad decision. Target fixation led to recklessness. The two non-variables in the equation - range and darkness - should have been the primary factors in the decision to launch (and the results proved it). June 19 excellent, June 20 bad. Love these podcasts and the obvious research that goes into them. Thank you so much for forcing me to think.

[@flparkermdpc]

My thoughts exactly. Bill said in the wrap-up of this episode, looking forward to Leyte, "I don't think Mitscher learned very much from this experience." June 20 added a Phyrric flavor that wasn't there on the 19th.

[@landontesar3070]

Bill called it out. Risk management did not support the decision.

[@birddog7492]

To me this Battle Showed the aggressiveness of the U.S. Navy. The American priority was to take out the Carriers of the Japanese Navy. This would take away a large part of Japan's offensive capability. It also showed the Japanese how far we would go to sink their carrier force. What a great thing for Japan to understand. they had the best bait in the ocean. They knew the Americans would take the bait. The only Question now was, can Japan set the hook? Thank you, guys' great show.

[@islandhopperstuart]

Thanks yet again guys. A superb discussion as always. This podcast formula with the three of you has matured to the point where it's now bang on the money!

[@henriyoung3895]

I hope all your holidays are full of happiness. Thank you for all your hard work. Will there be a video on what the submarines were doing during Guadalcanal time frame ? CPT Bill more sub stories please. HAPPY NEW YEAR. SGT DOUG, RECON, 101ST, RVN 68-69, LZ SALLY

[@kyledillard3496]

Regarding Mitscher’s “Wish I was with you!” message. I can only guess what he was thinking but he was an early pioneer of naval aviation. The planes he was flying as a young officer were not much more than powered kites. He knew how far US naval aviation had come and like you guys said he really loved his flyers. I really think he wished he was with them on that mission even though he knew how dangerous it was going to be.

[@Paul-talk]

agree

[@flparkermdpc]

With regards to Mitscher's farewell address:"I wish I was going with you." I suppose I should read the book "The Magnificent Mitscher. At this point in our story, however,I wish he had gone on the "Mission Beyond Darkness." Regardless of whether he survived or not, he would have had information he didn't have this day and night. Sometimes, it's wiser to quit when you're ahead. That is certainly what the Admirals had decided when members of Weymouth's squadron were gathering volunteers for yet another shot at the beaten Japanese. I don't know if Mitscher was one of the Admirals who said "no" to that, but this decision has Spruance's prints on it. Saipan is the real mission.

[@coryheckler2354]

Enjoyed the conversation gentlemen as always...looking forward to the next episode.

[@SammyNeedsAnAlibi]

Retired SKC(SS), USN here, so hand salute to the Admiral. This battle is personal with me- my grandfather was on the Princeton during this incredible victory. He was the Chief of the Machinery Repair Shop.

[@alexkalish8288]

This is the most comprehensive analysis of the battle on video and by far the most balanced and fair in any medium. I would argue that this was an extreme 'Macho' event by US naval admirals , that using cold reason, was not worth the cost. Two Oilers at that time was crippling to the JIN, but they were over; the battle was won the previous day with the destruction of Japanese aviation and the sub attacks which were brilliant. Bravo again gentlemen -

[@PerfectDanceVideos]

always great to see Mr. Parshall joining the team

[@MichaelWalker-de8nf]

Fantastic as always, fellas. Thank you ❤

[@ForTheUnion]

Another outstanding discussion as usual gentlemen! Keep up the great work!

[@MrElliotc02]

Love when you guys go "into the weeds"...great presentation...wishing you all a happy and healthy New Year.

[@m.r.donovan8743]

I learn something cool every time Jon says, "But I digress."

[@gootchie]

My gateway drug to the Pacific War was the 1976 version of Midway, watched at my grandma's house in the late 70's as NBC's The Big Event.

[@AdamMisnik]

Terrific series on the Saipan - Philippine Sea Campaign. Merry Christmas guys.

[@jordanvraptor]

Thank you for this podcast. It helped me understand how and why my uncle died. Robert Varmette was a radioman/gunner on an SB2C Helldiver in this battle. My father always said he was MIA in the Mariana Turkey Shoot. I remember seeing the telegram the Navy sent our family. It said his plane was seen being attacked by a Japanese fighter. His plane was last seen losing altitude and smoking. He and his pilot were never seen again. My dad had a nice photograph of uncle Robert and his pilot in front of of their Helldiver which was taken just a few weeks before they were shot down. Thank you for remembering men like my uncle who gave their all for their shipmates and country.

[@garymackey850]

A very nice Christmas present!!!! Jon, could have done without the mental image of Godzilla's foot coming down on Bambi...Squish! 🤣🤣🤣

[@EZEMEAT2000]

Thanks gents, hope you had a great Christmas 🎁

[@garypetersen4039]

Best ww2 podcast by far! Thank you gentleman!!💯

[@richardmalcolm1457]

Thanks to Seth, Bill, and Jon for another terrific episode!

[@montescott59]

I was thrilled to see a new episode having dropped the day after Christmas. I love this series, ever since I discovered it last summer. I went back and watched all the old episodes, so now I'm current. I consider myself a WWII historian, but from you I've learned more about the Pacific war than I ever knew. I also like the casual give and take between Seth and Bill, and the very best episodes have John Parshall as the guest. So many history presentations are about trying to impress people with pedantic scholarship, but you guys know your material without all that. Count me as a Navy vet and an appreciative viewer.

[@uselesswatcher1]

The idea about not using torpedoes is a complicated one you would have to just know what they were thinking. I immediately thought they wouldn’t since it was max range. Torpedoes weigh 1800-1900lbs. You could carry two or three 500 lbs for less.

[@professor-josh]

I was in a vintage shop last weekend looking at vinyl records and came upon a soundtrack album for Victory at Sea by Richard Rodgers. Of course I got it, a Christmas gift for me. It has a beautiful painted cover of an explosion on a Carrier flight deck. I remember the show from reruns on PBS during pledge weeks (waaay too young to have seen it in 1952). Great music too. Merry Christmas Team!

[@StuartGivot]

Victory At Sea was my gateway drug to the war in the Pacific (and in the Atlantic as well). I was all of eleven years old. All of the episodes are accessible online. Some of the episode titles were great. And Leonard Graves, the narrator, was superb.

[@farizdbro9903]

Can’t get why Mischer would launch a strike at that range and with his planes having to return at night. Ozawa’s squadrons had already been decimated and his carriers were heading north; weren’t a threat. Anyway, throughly enjoyed the show. Thank you and greetings from Malaysia.

[@dmbeaster]

They wanted to sink carriers. Easy to explain.

[@danasmith3288]

Bill, An excellent summation.

[@coreyglenn6068]

Would love for you guys to do a couple of seasons on the war in Asia. It’s in many ways the cause of everything that happened in the Pacific

[@joebombero1]

Merry Christmas Navy fans from the Philippines!

[@therealuncleowen2588]

"When was I CNO?" -Adm. Arleigh Burke (USN Ret.)😥 Father time is undefeated.

[@LameWolff]

Thanks!

[@LameWolff]

I like your programs so I figured I should help some.

[@ph89787]

Weird pattern that 3 out of the 6 Carrier Battles had the IJN Carriers found by scouts from Enterprise.

[@jovianmole1]

I do not look at it as weird. I look at it as the Enterprise being the most important and efficient fighting ship ever produced by any Navy in the history of Navies. She got it done, with scars. Watch her own episode by these gentlemen.

[@matthewnewton8812]

Also I think there are generally recognized as being 5 major carrier actions during the war. Midway, Philippine sea, coral sea, Santa Cruz and eastern Solomons. Not in that order lol

[@ph89787]

@@matthewnewton8812 Coral Sea, Midway, Eastern Solomons, Santa Cruz, Philippine Sea and Cape Engano. The last one tends not to be recognised as a carrier battle as the Northern Force barely fought Task Force 38.

[@COACHWARBLE]

Jon!!Jon!!Jon!! Keep the great work coming. Stop at Valor Brew Pub when you come to DC. 723 8th st SE

[@user-hw1qo2mu9e]

Thank you Bill Seth and Jon I look forward to this every week y'all are amazing!

[@user-lj6fu6rc5j]

Thanks again for your time and effort in putting this together. I look forward to Tuesdays more than I ever have.

[@colinellis5243]

Gents another comprehensive and excellent analysis, plus Jon said "Beat Feet" so single malt time!

[@terryemery7839]

You suggest the carrier strikes were disappointing. In the cold calculus of war, the strikes were an abject failure considering the assets employed. The subs outperformed the air strikes if taking into account a cost/benefit analysis and considering the change into kamikaze doctrine because of the air battles. What if task force 58 detached one task group, two fleet, one light or any combination of carriers to attack earlier, while still maintains main objective of protecting the landings? Question: Since the US subs were tracking the IJN task force, and sinking two of them, why couldn’t they have maintained contact over this period to relay coordinates to task force 58. How many subs were in the vicinity? Absolute top notch coverage and content from this channel!

[@StylinandProfilinBBsandBBQ]

The subs that got hits were in the right place at the right time. After that a sub doing maybe 2-4 knots during an attack and then really opening the submerged throttle to go maybe, maybe 8 knots can’t keep up with a task force doing at least 20 knots. So that’s why they couldn’t keep track of the task force e after an initial attack.

[@matthewsullivan9598]

​@@StylinandProfilinBBsandBBQit's a bit like asking a hitchhiker why he couldn't keep pace with a car that whizzed by on a highway.

[@StylinandProfilinBBsandBBQ]

@@matthewsullivan9598 that is perfect.

[@lurking0death]

Toti is right. Mitscher knew that the Japanese had suffered horrendous carrier based air casualties the day before and may have thought this gave him a distinct advantage. But the Japanese air casualties also made the turning on of the carrier and fleet lights a much safer option than it would otherwise normally be. Personally, I would have held the strike back to dawn the next day and I would have trusted radar to tell me if the Japanese had doubled back during the night. Also, the Enterprise and one or two other carriers had equipment specifially aimed at night operation and scouting. This would have protected the U.S. fleet from ambush during the night.

[@ph89787]

Adding onto that, I read that Mitscher had planned for Enterprise's VT-10 to launch a midnight attack on Ozawa's fleet. With 2 Avengers sent out to find them. This was followed up by VT-10's CO LTCDR Bill Martin leading the rest of the squadron in attacking them. But the plan was called off due to the after dark recovery.

[@ph89787]

@@leoamery not so much crackpot as extremely risky. The Royal Navy have done similar stuff before with Taranto and Bismarck. Plus there was a plan for a night attack on the Kido Butai during the Indian Ocean Raid. At this point, VT-10 had only attacked Truk in a night raid as part of Operations Hailstone in February 1944. Plus, The big issue was that this would be the first night torpedo attack by US Navy carrier aircraft. So lot of things capable of going wrong.

[@lurking0death]

Wrong, Mr. Troll. Japanese submarines were never very effective in the whole of WWII AND by this time the U.S. had many escorts with advanced sonar and advanced weaponry like the Hedgehog. Suggest you go to the library once in a while and stick your nose in a book.@@leoamery

[@jovianmole1]

Would Spruance have allowed a chase the next day? The fleet is getting further from the reason for being there...protect the landing force.

[@lurking0death]

Peanuts compared to the total war effort. So, you are saying that a handfull of Japanese submarines are going to stop or annilhilate this U.S. fleet? Get real. Wasp and Yorktown were early in the war. Japanese subs could not even get close to a U.S. fleet by mid-1944. Indianapolis was more a case of dereliction by it's captain than anything the Japanese did. You, sir, are dreaming, drifting off into space with your nonsense.@@leoamery

[@robertclemmons1666]

You guys are fantastic. These are the best podcasts about WW2 I've ever...ever listened to. When JP joins...OMG...so funny!

[@philipcoggins9512]

1:09:50 The Avengers do have a door below the turret that you use to enter/exit the aircraft.

[@markfrumkin6390]

As always, you guys are great & thank you for what you are doing!

[@user-hm1lo9vq3l]

Great content Merry Christmas and happy New Year.

[@joanscott8854]

Thank you gentleman, Merry Christmas, happy new year.

[@swatdiver1]

Just adding this comment to help with the algorithm. Love your work

[@bobsmith4185]

Another great show guys.. do you think also it was the pilot's mind set over the fuel..played into the ineffective showing.. you just drop your bombs to get home as fast as you can...I 5hink it did..thanks for the time you bill and Jon put into your fine work!

[@roberthilton5328]

Agree with your thinking on the fuel situation, but I also wonder how many of the dive-bombers were loaded with 500lb bombs and not 1000lb bombs? A load more like the old Scout dauntless squadrons earlier in the war, with range being gained for a smaller punch. With smaller bombs and better Japanese damage control, that would allow more ships to resist damage and make it back to base.

[@billyhouse1943]

Thank you… these two episodes have been great..

[@bobcosby1034]

Another outstanding program - thank you!

[@cenccenc946]

excellent. so been waiting for this episode.

[@user-hp6lb7bz9z]

It was fantastic! Thank you very much for sharing with us.

[@kaylemoine1571]

You guys don't let a little thing like Christmas stop you. Thanks.

[@astraltraveler2725]

Another great episode! 👍 👍

[@jacqueschouette7474]

1:01:54 Not only Brewster Buffalos in British hands but Brewster Buffalos at Midway.

[@v.mwilliams1101]

Merry Christmas gentlemen. Thank you for all you do, and, I do enjoy the 'digressions'. All the very best in 2024!

[@bagoquarks]

Was not expecting a connection to the 'Talking Heads.' Furthermore, was definitely not expecting the 'Bambi vs. Godzilla' metaphor - both late Boomer cultural references. You filled in some knowledge for me on the Marianas campaign. After consulting Google Maps I realized I have overlooked the obvious: Saipan, Tinian, and Guam are of the same geology and geography - to fight for one is to fight for all. My father, USNA '43 (graduated 1942 because summer cruises were cancelled), told me about the Turkey Shoot when I was about 10 circa 1960. He was in the Atlantic on a destroyer when Germany surrendered; he and thousands of other officers and enlisted men were dreading their transfer to the Pacific Theater. Then the ultimate weapon was dropped twice in August of '45, ending hostilities. Those strikes were staged from B-29 air strips on ... Tinian. My father and other veterans I had the privilege to talk to said that the feeling of relief was indescribable. The historical shadow of capturing Tinian is long over my Boomer generation.

[@jovianmole1]

And now the USAF is going back to Tinian.

[@willl7780]

Bill absolutely nailed it in the summary..could not agree more

[@calbino9769]

As I expect, always excellent.

[@observationsfromthebunker9639]

Thanks for this release over the holiday period! Also thanks for all the detail, which always leaves me having learned something new. (Wasp SB2-C sqadron hitting tankers to save fuel isan example.) Mr Parshall's multiple talents and hobbies make him a true Renaissance Man. I can attest to Captain Bill's satisfaction that the Avenger had a ventral hatch, having seen one up close on a TBM last year during a visit by the CAF. I'm on the side of Mitscher in ordering the late strike. The turkey shoot wasn't enough. A chance to sink carriers to prevent fighting them again must be taken!

[@Thumpalumpacus]

Another famous musician with a Pacific Fleet Admiral for a father: Jim Morrison.

[@kylecarmichael5890]

A salute to Lt. George Brown. Talk about great intrepidity, plane hit and on fire at least for a bit. Crew has left, drops his fish and it runs true, gets acknowledged and is lost to the sea. Thank you gentleman for letting his story be known.

[@jaredwren9304]

Gentlemen, really appreciate your content. Keep em' comin'!

[@DalonCole]

Love watching this channel grow

[@psibraden7093]

Thanks guys. You are doing a great job.

[@robertmoffitt1336]

ROFLMFAO... "One of the most important things to come out of [the battle] was the formation of the Talking Heads..." 😄 "That gives new meaning to hair raising, and I don't even have any hair" 😄 John was on it with the funny lines! Another great episode! 🍻

[@thejohnbeck]

Merry Christmas and Happy Boxing Day

[@ph89787]

Also. Merry Christmas from Australia.

[@brianjarvis313]

Gentlemen, excellent content as usual!! Love the details of the action, and more so, the context of what else was appending in the pacific Theater of operations at the time. Well done!

[@keithmitchell9302]

It would be interesting to hear the history of pilot rescue. 160 guys being rescued is amazing! That was a significant strategic advantage

[@jovianmole1]

Hear hear. I made the same request for an episode on "RESCUERS".

[@tomneises6178]

Best day of the week! Merry Christmas men!

[@Jakal-pw8yq]

You guys mentioned the carrier CV19 USS Hancock. My cousin Dwight F Willard was a radar man aboard the Hancock during the Vietnam War. He had some pretty hair-raising stories of typhoons and shipping green water over the bow! By the way, his father, my Uncle Harold F Willard served in the Silent Service during World War II and was present on December 7th, 1941. He was on Liberty with a buddy sitting atop Diamond Head and saw the whole attack come in. They found it impossible to get back to their boat until late evening. That's something my Uncle Harold had guilt over for the entirety of his life. Cousin Dwight, Uncle Harold, you did your jobs and you did them well! Rest in peace to both of you. You are loved and missed. ❤🇺🇲⚓️💯☕️🚬

[@billechols7136]

Great show gentlemen.