The Misunderstood MCs of Code Geass

Code Geass, namely season 1, is one of my favorite anime. I find that its main characters are great and interesting, but also misunderstood by many to varying degrees. Watch me throw my hat into this crowded ring.
0:00 Intro
2:16 Lelouch vi Britannia
10:07 Suzaku Kururugi
21:39 Outro
Good Geass vids:
GR Anime Review: Code Geass - Lelouch of the Rebellion by Glass Reflection: • GR Anime Review: Code ...
The Dynamics of Lelouch and Suzaku (Code Geass) by Aleczandxr: • The Dynamics of Lelouc...
So I Watched Code Geass... (Part 1) by The Masked Man: • So I Watched Code Geas...
The Man Behind the Mask: How Lelouch Led With the King | Code Geass Analysis by Kato: • The Man Behind the Mas...
Suzaku is Misundertsood | Code Geass Character Analysis by Sock Sensei: • Suzaku is Misundertsoo...
Let’s Talk About Code Geass Lelouch of the Rebellion R1 by MyMediaChops: • Let’s Talk About Code ...
Music used:
“Cantata Mortis” by Takeharu Ishimoto (Dissidia 012 FINAL FANTASY)
“Oretachi Futari de Hitori” by Kotaro Nakagawa (Kamen Rider W)
“Cold Nobility” by Kotaro Nakagawa (Code Geass: Hangyaku no Lelouch)
“IN THE DEPTHS OF HUMAN HEARTS” by Shiro Sagisu (Neon Genesis Evangelion)
“MOBILE SUIT GUNDAM THE ORIGIN Main Theme” by Takayuki Hattori (Mobile Suit Gundam: The Origin)
“Science Fiction” by Daisuke Ishiwatari (Blazblue Chronophantasma)
“Toui Mukashi” by Kana Shibue (Shouwa Genroku Rakugo Shinjuu)
“Light no Theme” by Hideki Taniuchi (Death Note)
“dumb” by THE NOVEMBERS
“The Gaze That Invited Disaster” by Garoad (VA-11 HALL-A)
“The Eyes of Vengeance” by Flying Lotus (Yasuke)
“avant,ren dez vous” by Ichiko Hashimoto (RahXephon)
“It’s You” by Ulpio Minucci & Marcia Woods (Robotech)
“REPENT NOW CONFESS NOW” by Lingua Ignota
“Staff Roll” by Takuya Miyawaki (Mega Man X5)
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[@SerialNavelgazerCBF]

I wanted to get this video out before my channel's 1 year anniversary, but I'll settle for this. I almost wanted to discuss more things like how Lelouch and Suzaku's ideoloical debate gets a role reversal with Suzaku and Kallen in ep 50 to close out their specific rivalry, and how even in spite of Suzaku's lack of validity, following his perspective is still valuable in showing more sides of what makes Britannia such a vile governing force. I also cut out one specific interlude I had at the end of the video on an infamous table scene from episode 12, which I might turn into its own mini video over on Ko-Fi (and maybe release here later anyway, idk). Ko-Fi: ko-fi.com/serialnavelgazercbf

[@benjaminbierley2074]

99% with everything in this far as Suzaku goes...save for one key point feel gets missed. His playing hero can be read as being "just" a coping mechanism, except for a key thing that turns his coping mechanism into a rather disgusting farce...he has a death wish, the reason he threw himself headlong into situations when given the chance was that he was HOPING to die performing some heroic act (probably out of a desire to make amends). This is of course prevented by his natural skill as a pilot and having an experimental top-of-the-line Knightmare, but of course, later on, his death wish becomes an impossibility cause of the geass command to live, and after that point, he HATES his life even harder, because that command has essentially robbed him of the out he had subconsciously been chasing, and he becomes actively bitter about it, even into "Resurrection" while he's accepted his lot by then you can tell he still hates his life.

[@SerialNavelgazerCBF]

That was definitely something I covered, even if I somewhat glossed over it. He wants to atone by making his country a better place, AND die trying. He'd just rather not think about the other part. Even in Fukkatsu, as you said, he may have accepted his punishment, it's not like it fixes his life or anything, he's still a broken human being wants to do the right thing, has to do the right thing, and in many ways, stopped living after he killed his dad, and stopped living AGAIN after Euphie died.

[@nahte123456]

So an argument i have in favor of Lelouch’s mistakes, some of them, is just how BAD his situation is. The literal ONLY time in the entire R1 he EVER starts something is when he was busting Refrain, everything else is purely reaction. He always has a fraction of the time to prepare as everyone else. In Narita JLF were fully were fully in place and Cornelia was planning for seeming weeks before Lelouch ever heard about it. If he has contingencies everywhere it'd make no sense. However we see several times in Ashford he has traps, plans, and camera's everywhere, he had time and planned.

[@SerialNavelgazerCBF]

Oh yeah, totally. He tends to just take advantage of an enemy's situation or attempts. It's just that when a plan folds, and/or Suzaku shows up, generally he and others have to scramble just to survive for much of the run. It's def not a criticism of the writing tho just in case you viewed it that way, more so an acknowledgement that for all his intelligence and decent strategies, one of the many resulting faults of his general hastiness is that he just about never plans for contingencies on the battlefield, not that he'd have one for Suzaku for quite some time anyway tbf

[@sauravsaha7465]

@@SerialNavelgazerCBF I think one of the best analysis of Lelouch's skills and faults was something I came across in a fanfic. In the fanfic Bismarck realizes that Lelouch is a genius, but he isn't fully trained/educated/prepared. He is still learning. The problem is that is is too arrogant and too pissed off to see his lack of knowledge. This to me is the best description of Lelouch's character. CC is someone who seems to recognize this from the get go, thus her tendency to stick around so that she can bust him out when he will inevitably screw up. Lelouch finally straightens out after the Tokyo Fleija incident when he thinks Nunnaly is dead. It is at that time that he has no arrogance left and realizes that his actions cost him everything he cared about. It is why he protects Kallen from the Black Knights (he doesn't want any of his friends -kinda- to die for him anymore) and why he even feels bad about Rolo's death. So he goes on a suicide mission to stop Charles. And when he survives that, he goes on a suicide mission to bring World Peace, because by this point he is convinced that Lelouch vi Britannia does not deserve a happy ending, but has power to give a better future to the world. He does "Fix the system from within" in the most revolutionary way possible. And the show seems to portray his flawless successes in that arc as him finally have learnt and achieved his full potential. Also, speaking of the pre-recorded conversation scenes: I think the final one was well done. It seems in the scene that Lelouch wasn't answering Scheinzel's words in the debate but rather just saying things that look like he is debating with Schneizel while completely ignoring his word choices. It does look like a pre-recorded conversation as it is clear that Lelouch has no idea what words Schneizel will use, just that he would be there and that he would push his agenda of creating an unchanging world.

[@nahte123456]

@@sauravsaha7465 I actually know that fic! But I hard disagree. His training or education has simply never been a problem, after his first loss to Cornelia he never makes a mistake based on a lack of information or a failure to think things through.

[@albus9166]

@@sauravsaha7465 Mind hooking a brother up with a link to that fic?

[@HectorCotto97]

I feel like I'm one of the only people who isn't bothered by the Euphy moment, I honestly don't have a problem with it. It was established beforehand that it could happen and we were even shown an example of what happens when the Geass is active none stop in the form of Mao. I honestly don't consider it a moment of stupidity but rather that Lelouch let his guard down given the circumstances and because he let his guard down he accidentally said something he really shouldn't have to prove some kind of point and it ended up backfiring HARD and he had to choice but to deal with the consequences of his mistake. I honestly don't blame Lelouch for momentarily forgetting that his Geass could evolve at any moment since even in real life people can temporarily forget something in the moment which is what happened to Lelouch.

[@SerialNavelgazerCBF]

The thing is I know Lelouch can get careless from time to time, and the episode was definitely setting it up so that somehow his Geass will wig out at just the right time to screw the pooch on this whole thing. The execution still feels rather contrived to me and even still a bit out of character for Lelouch since this is the first time he had ever made jokes of that nature, which is a shame since I still love what came out of it.

[@eldrickzero4885]

I love Code Geass but Geass going out of control and Lelouch randomly joking about genocide are 2 different things. Lelouch could have joked about making Euphy get naked or something. Why would Lelouch randomly talk about Japanese genocide lol. Geass going out of control was setupd and foreshadowed. Not Lelouch joking about genocide.

[@cascal3033]

​@@SerialNavelgazerCBF I never really viewed it as a joke as much as it is him saying that he could make her do something that goes against everything she stands for, and she would be powerless to stop it. I think he said something like that despite never making those jokes before specifically because he was talking to euphemia who would never dream of doing so.

[@datzfatz2368]

@@cascal3033 it is still a bit silly and contrived that he happened to say the exact thing that would cause the worst possible outcome in the current situation and escalate the drama to the max. Its not inconcievable or unrealistic, it just feels a bit on the nose and you can really feel the hand of the writers pushing the plot in the direction they want without doing enough to make it fully feel organic. Its not a show and character ruining failure as many people seem to think, its just little bit of weaker writing. And the dramatic payoffs are well worth it if you ask me , even if they are contrived in origin.

[@Thesilentvoice...]

I disagree because of how it happened. He didn't need to make that joke knowing his has Geass and it's just odd he'd make that sort of joke. He saw how Mao's one went out of control, he never even asks CC about more info about it. Also he didn't need to kill Euphi in my opinion. He could have just disabled her legs or something so she couldn't kill any more Japanese people. It's her death and murder of the Japanese people that made it all worse.

[@Lillymu961]

For me, who first saw Code Geass while in high school in 2009 and 2010, Lelouch was my favorite character for how complex his characterization was. This was a young man filled to the brim with hate and love in equal measure and when he felt compelled to act, nothing stopped him. The conviction he felt and the pain he endured was extremely compelling for me. I also liked Suzaku a lot and never quite understood the absolute hatred people had for his character. I mainly felt that way because...his life was genuinely horrible from choices he made and choices he didn't. Even when he was at his most annoying, I could never forget the heartache displayed on his face during Euphemia's dying moments nor could I dismiss the compassion he showed when he told her the Special Zone was a success. In that moment, he had no idea about Geass. From his perspective, this woman who had opened so many doors for him, basically gave him a reason to live, and provided a chance at healing, suddenly flipped the script and indiscriminately murdered hundreds of his people. He probably felt used, betrayed, angry, and heartbroken all at once. He probably hated himself all the more for loving a monster. And yet, he still chose to say the things that would bring her peace at the end simply because he loved her. He didn't get any answers about what really happened until after she died. It's no wonder he doubled down on hating Zero and in his own false beliefs. Now, in 2024, Suzaku is actually my favorite character in this show because of how human he feels. His character is the type that is viceral in how realistic his thought process is given everything he's done and everything he went through. Suzaku never had a chance to be happy or heal from anything. And to top it off, Lelouch took his agency regarding his life with that Geass command to some degree. Suzaku's philosophy didn't have any solid ground to stand on and I believe deep down he knew that but kept at it anyway simply because he couldn't face who he really was. How true is that for all of us sometimes? I still adore Lelouch too though, especially because people who stick to their convictions regardless of push back are rare. My point is...this show just has great characters in general. Thanks for making this video. Best wishes and God bless you.

[@rajaryan-fe1oy]

Man what I'd give for more Suzaku appreciation like this, he's such a great character and deserves to be held in equal regard to Lelouch, Imean, Lelouch's story wouldn't have half the meaning it has if it weren't for Suzaku

[@Lillymu961]

@rajaryan-fe1oy I completely agree with you. Suzaku definitely needs more love.

[@APink176]

I haven’t watched this show in almost 2 decades, but I remember liking Suzaku’s character when watching the show air each week. His motivations made sense to me and I didn’t have the problems with him that I see people talk about now. I remember watching the show to find out what would happen between Suzaku and Euphemia, and her death broke my heart. Looking back, maybe I just liked Suzaku bc Euphemia was my favorite character and she liked him *shrug*. Fun aside: I actually learned how to use old school movie maker on windows vista just to make a tribute video to their relationship.

[@atlasprime6193]

As a wise man once told Suzaku… YOUR FUCKING MORAL COMPASS IS A ROULETTE WHEEL!!!

[@mhiization]

This put a smile on my face. Thank you for that.

[@KaiserShounen]

6:18 I think going this far in, the reason why most critics of Lelouch's character don't point these moments out is one simple thing; They don't have an issue with them. In fact I would hope (and this is a huge assumption on my part) that they would see these examples as how to write Lelouch's success' and failures CORRECTLY. From what I remember though, most critics I heard only have a issue with Lelouch when he A. makes an incredibly obvious mistake that isn't substantiated by his existing character or flaws. Or B. Relies on characters having the IQ of room temperature compared to him. or C. Plot Armor (so basically all of R2 lol).

[@SerialNavelgazerCBF]

Yeah, I agree, but it would be cool for more people to talk about them and how that (mostly) adds to his character and how all the cool plans in the world can't truly make for great leadership or dealing with one guy just being too strong (tho I do hear people go "why did they leave when Suzaku showed up, they were winning" to which I'd say "bro he literally cleans house every time, they lost right then and there). I do think the B point is borderline nonexistent, particularly in S1. The most common writing failing is def him pulling shit outta nowhere or having plans that really strain one's suspension of disbelief, tho the Eupheminator incident and how it takes like 45 episodes for him to just generally start going "hey, do whatever I say when I say it" with his Geass.

[@greenst4ck]

​​@@SerialNavelgazerCBFI genuinely wonder if I am the only one who is fine with Lelouch not just using his Geass to make his subordinates obey his every order unless absolutely necessary. He showed his unwillingness to just use the Geass on Suzaku & Nunnally, which suggests he thinks it is not morally correct to use his Geass like that on those who aren't his enemies. I believe, despite how much he lies in the show, that he roots for genuineness.

[@AnonTDegenerate]

Tbf, Suzaku being an anti-sue is pretty off the mark. He's a near one to one with his knightmare's name, Lancelot. Lancelot was a legendary knight and an empitome of a Gary Stu, except he has a secret affair with the Queen that resulted in failing his King. He then goes into exile basically until his secret son Gallahad becomes the new legendary knight and supersedes all of what he did. In R1 Suzaku basically never kills anyone pre-euphie, and while you framed Euphemia as validating his beliefs, it was also plot wise a reward. She was right for her beliefs and let her push her goals further, while Euphemia showed Suzaku that change was possible, and some of the britanians did respect his character as the show kept going. But post Euphemia he acts basically against all he said he believed in previously, even willing to drug one of his old friends. His attempted betrayal with Schneizel was his lowest point, marked by how we was lambasted by Bismark and ran off. Also it's pretty fucked to say it's in his nature to be fine with nuking Tokyo. He literally resisted the will to live for like a solid minute there when he was getting packed up. It's only when he lost all will to do anything and couldn't resist the geass took full effect. I'd think if it really was in him to nuke a place, he would have thought about it at least once in his internal monolouge, or not have a day's long full on breakdown.

[@SerialNavelgazerCBF]

I mean, stuff like that is why I said he isn't an anti-sue, just that in many ways, he does come at least somewhat close in terms of how he is framed and treated by the narrative. A full-on example is someone like Shinn who just can't catch a break no matter what, is almost never seen in a particularly positive light at even the best of times, and loses any remaining effectiveness in terms of achievements in the final quarter of the show when his original role is straight-up usurped. On the broad side the Lancelot similarities exist, but the particulars in terms of how the narrative treats and frames him on his way there are extremely unflattering Yea, the validating of his beliefs inherently is a reward. He stuck in there, gave some boots on the ground, in the trenches of society perspective to Euphie who was already much kinder and more about equality than the rest of her family, worked his ass off in the meantime, and she took notice of the man who inspired her to put a plan into action. It was the point where things were finally starting to come up Suzaku after being largely dunked on outside of combat for 15 episodes, at least until the Eupheminator incident took all that away. It's as fucked up as it is backed up by Suzaku himself 2 episodes after the nuking of Tokyo. His initial resistance to the Geass "live" command has absolutely nothing to do with the decisions he made on autopilot concerning what the best course of action for "living" would be. Unlike previous instances, he didn't take an evasive approach, he instead fired the nuke, and seeing the results of that is what lets him shake off the ideals he created for himself as a coping mechanism for the last time he instinctively resulted to killing someone in a confrontation back when he was a kid. Even back when he wasn't killing, he actively considered making an exception for Zero after Euphie died, and was much more aggressive as a fighter until calming down between S1 and R2. The nuking incident was just the thing that woke him up to the fact that he is inherently not above killing the instant it seems like the most logical solution and that he has to rethink his moral philosophies in context of what he's already done. I do think there could be more stuff showing his potential for that earlier in R2 beyond just showing how wrathfully violent he was towards Lelouch an episode prior, but this is ultimately what the show went with and I can't say it's entirely unfounded. Sometimes you don't think about what you have it in you to do unless you force yourself to really envision such a scenario, or you're actually in it yourself. Plus, it's not like this is the first or even second time he was horrified of what he was morally capable of, hence the need for a coping mechanism upon killing his dad, or the way he broke for a bit when that repressed memory got brought up by Mao. Sure, the rest of the knights weren't exactly happy to hear that, but when they challenged him, it isn't quite like when Lloyd did. When Lloyd mocked his beliefs, he was uncontested regarding the inherent contradiction and naivete of a soldier having Suzaku's beliefs and how they especially won't fly in Britannia's military of all things. When the Knights of the Round challenged him, it was more so on him leaving than of anything regarding his ideology now that he's come to understand himself better and realizes there's no place for him in this blatantly, then seemingly unfixable military government structure, and that partnering up with Lelouch is straight-up the better option in terms of trying to combat Britannia's evil at this point. It was his first step towards redemption, and the first time he was right about a belief or decision in quite some time. I certainly wouldn't call that his lowest point in R2 when the FLEIJA nuke and its fallout exist right beforehand.

[@AnonTDegenerate]

@@SerialNavelgazerCBF true honesty we probably do have the same points haha, just different ways of framing them. Also I forgot to mention, for a video idea if you ever do another Code Geass video/want to collab, some criticisms of Lelouch. Suzaku and the Fleija kinda parallels Lelouch and Euphienator, both being arguably fucked up accidents partially out of their control that they take full accountability for. Suzaku doesn't fully shift blame onto his geass and neither does Lelouch. Both turned extremely fucked up and betrayed their allies also. For Lelouch this was his genocide of the innocents at the order. Which while it was arguably a reasonable action, like how Suzaku trying to team up with Schneizel was, it betrays his initial R1 outlook. Genocide of non-combatant scientists because they worked in an organisation is much more in line with the actions of Charles than Lelouch of R1 who did try his best to avoid civilians and tries to be just. This was why the black knights betrayed him, since he basically killed many of their friends and became more like a britanian oppressor all for a genocide they still saw no point of. Especially when you consider his stance of using evil to defeat evil. His death was never in the plan until the end, he truly was becoming more evil with no end in sight until the Zero Requiem plan.

[@proxxei9906]

Beautiful analysis on intentional character writing. No person is perfect, people are fundamentally flawed. That's what makes them interesting as they are relatable to the reader, sure the scope of the fuck up someone like Lelouch does is much greater than your average joe, but you can still get why the character in question did a shitty move and not dilute your sense of realism to understand it. Overall great video, hope to see more.

[@SerialNavelgazerCBF]

Thank you, and I'm glad you specifically said intentional character writing. A lot of characters can be flawed in a way where it's an issue with the script rather than something the script is trying to productively examine. Even for these two I don't always think the show nails it out of the park since writing seriously flawed characters or ones who can make severe mistakes believably, understandably, and consistently is a massive challenge. Still, when it works and when we get a massive reveal or shake-up in this regard, it is exciting beyond words.

[@SS4519]

As someone who defines Code Geass as my number one anime of all time, I heavily appreciate seeing this video. It finally puts into concise words as to why I find both Lelouch and Suzaku fascinating as protagonists. It really does continue to emphasize why I love Code Geass so much, in spite of its faults. Thank you for making this video.

[@SerialNavelgazerCBF]

Thank you, and I'm glad to have been able to capture much of what makes them so compelling.

[@johntrotter7372]

To be fair, you actually show sezaku shooting the fleya missle directly at the Guren. He had one more weapon and was compelled to try to live, which meant shooting it at the thing about to kill him.

[@SerialNavelgazerCBF]

True but the fact that he chose that weapon to fire rather than using anything else is all kinds of messed up if his autopilot saw the giant explosiom radius nuke as the best way to make sure he survived. It very much allowed him to do something he'd never let himself do otherwise even though we've seen him be capable of spur of the moment bloodshed.

[@greenst4ck]

Honestly, for me it has always been mainly about the characters and not so much about the plot itself. That is why, when analysing a story I am currently watching/reading or have finished recently, I focus on character analysis. And that is why I can genuinely enjoy a story despite it having plot holes and writing flaws. So I was really glad to hear the ideas and conclusions I have reached about these two characters, as well as some new ones, in this video.

[@ALBATROZZ98]

what i liked about code geass is that you can actually compare it to Team Assignment who is compassionate toward one and only goal but all of them had different take to achieve it Lelouch : his plan or nothing Suzaku : Sake of the goal he do everything including betrayal and killing in the process Kalen : Zero is the way to the goal Euphemia : All of the Take is great, but not the willpower since she's not the leader in this team Cornelia : by granting euphemia wishes Nunnally : Love Lelouch idea but not Zero idea Charles : by making the "Ideal World" by that is Tsukoyomi the whole world with C world

[@MrTehRave]

Spot on analysis of Suzaku

[@andocommando3071]

I like how you went on a tangent shitting on Gundam Seed Destiny. Completely justified 😊

[@SerialNavelgazerCBF]

Shit Ass Cunt was made a martyr for me to tie this whole thing together and link us to Kira Yamato, the bad proto-Suzaku.

[@dietrichrache1975]

I never disliked Suzaku, and don't understand why some people do or did. I always liked him and Lelouch both as rivals fighting on opposite sides. They were both right, both wrong, both hypocrites, and both constantly getting in each other's ways. That's the whole point. Suzaku working for the Britanians does seems stupid on the surface except it becomes pretty validated as the series progresses, as he gains the respect of many people within Britania including the Emperor himself who is just about the most contemptible MFer in the whole show. But Lelouch is also justified in that Britania as a whole probably does just need to be burned down, it's so toxic and evil even if a couple individuals are more reasonable than others.

[@Oblinski]

I have to be honest I missed Suzaku's original characterization. I actually liked what he stood for and thought him a good character in R1. Hot take: I actually didnt like R2 as it felt confusing and too fast paced due to budget constraints. R1 set up tons of things and led to the perfect climax of Suzaku vs Lelouch R2 walked that all back and recontextualized it which I didn't like. Code Geass imo should have been a 3 season show but it crammed the last thirds into one.

[@SerialNavelgazerCBF]

Interesting. I think the idea of what he stands for sounds nice on paper, he just needed someone in power to be able to do something with it, which is thankfully the role Euphemia was fulfilling prior to the Eupheminator incident. That, and doing that a soldier is probably the worst way he could have thought of considering that involves him constantly getting his hands dirty with directly aiding fellow oppressors who hate him...though it was also realistically the only way he could have thought of. It's interesting because as you said, especially in much of R1 his heart was in the right place, even as you saw how ineffective he'd be in his goal without Euphie and even when you saw the cracks in his coping mechanism and sanity thanks to the repressed memory Mao brought up. I don't actually think there was much about their conflict that could have been done better in R2. The ideological conflict lost all meaning to both parties towards the end of S1 with the death of Euphemia. It was just a grudge match with bitter pretenses on Suzaku's end and an annoyed apathy on Lelouch's end prior to their eventual reconciliation near the end of R2. I also don't think the pacing was that crammed. If anything, some parts of R2's first half could have been streamlined, and also the Sword of Akasha stuff is just unsalvageable no matter what. Perhaps some ideas could use a smidge more screen time, but I don't see a world where the show would have needed more than like 1 or 2 episodes maximum to tell its current story comfortably.

[@laajsdeunknown9144]

i like how they changed the colors they wear and the first op is colors

[@wush2570]

didnt know it was possible to dislike code geass wtf

[@KaiserShounen]

12:05 VINGOAT SAGA

[@WorthlessWinner]

Kamille Bidan did nothing wrong

[@SerialNavelgazerCBF]

Indeed. He’s great. Poor boi didn't deserve what happened to him.

[@subjectnivleis7572]

9:00 this part in the show hurt so much

[@user-sd8ux3vz3v]

One good thing you pointed out is how intentionally flawed these two are and how it’s perfectly fine for them as characterization. Good writing.

[@roselialeontoo]

did anyone forget that one girl will forever be putting an x on the walls of the school everyday for the rest of her life. no vacation. she can never have a normal life. i notice this upon the rewatch. they even brought her back in further episodes in r2 will lelouch looking at her. so he knows. orange boy needs to cancel her geass order.

[@SerialNavelgazerCBF]

Hopefully she was caught in the radius, I don’t remember how wide it was. There’s also those thugs in R2 ep 7. Then again, with his death in the finale, maybe that disappeared, idk probably.

[@MoonAnime]

There must be some sort of meaning behind releasing this video right at the middle of the year. You can't convince me otherwise. Gotta give it to the show for riling people up for years on end. My problems with the show mostly lie outside of character writings, but the receptions has proven me that the theatrical presentation of the show is really doing the tricks of getting into people's heart. Deep inside me, I wish there's a show like that in current time that I can hop into Day 1 and live with the mess down the history. 🤣

[@SerialNavelgazerCBF]

Heheh, perfect conicidence for the 1 year anniversary. I do def have some major issues with R2 especially (most notably whenever the Ragnarok Connection and Sword of Akasha come into play) but yea, the presentation and editing really do just make this show a joyride. The energy radiating off this is the kind I love and I really wanna watch Oniisama e because it also gives me that kind of vibe. That would be utterly wild as well. Tfw every time we get a popular mecha now that has a highly contentious second half, the finale is utter dog water and the first half was already mid or bad to begin with (FranXX, Aldnoah.Zero, and from what I heard Guilty Crown).

[@ItzSwxzy]

@@SerialNavelgazerCBFwhats wrong with the ragnork connection or sword of akasha?

[@SerialNavelgazerCBF]

@@ItzSwxzy Mainly three things. One, I think the mystical elements of the Geass go way far by this point (esp stuff like geassing God) to so I can't really follow or make sense of it anymore. Secondly, it's a wholesale rewrite of Charles' character that is entirely incongruous with how he was in S1, esp when you consider that the man who cheered and laughed at Lelouch killing one of his own family (and only used Clovis' death for political theatrics) is now going "I did all this because I was saddened and tired by all the deadly intrigue politics of my family, soon we'll join the living with the dead". Finally, I just straight-up don't buy this as the natural conclusion to the set-up regarding Marianne, but I guess that's why she was entirely absent in R2 up until this point now, wasn't she? It would be more obviously jarring otherwise.

[@ItzSwxzy]

@@SerialNavelgazerCBF okay well I think the first issue you seem to have about the whole situation is the misunderstanding. I do not think the mystical elements of Geass go way far by this point but instead it shows a redeeming clarification of its full charm and extends of its use. It essentially ties to how all Geass powers are tied to mind and reality and is recurring theme of the series but outside of the thematic feature it also is essentially why Lelouch’s Geass is able to have an effect on C’s world which is the will of mankind as its the collective unconscious/consciousness. With that, it all made sense to me why Lelouch was able to “Geass” god because God or C’s world itself seemingly gave Lelouch his second Geass in his right eye and is also why it erased Charles and Marianne. I don’t think its really a rewrite on Charles character at all really, its more so like the case of Geass, is a clarification on his true motives. Charles never cheered or laughed at Lelouch killing clovis, he did use his death as a propaganda though which is true, but he did that with the intention of knowing like u said, that they would all be brought back together under one consciousness once he destroyed the collective unconsciousness aka C’s world which was part of his plan all along, Charles was saddened by this, but like Lelouch, he was stoic about it and never seemed to show his true feelings aside from few instances in the show. For this case, I guess I can’t really say much since this is your feelings and opinion regarding it. I personally think it was perfectly fine.

[@SerialNavelgazerCBF]

@@ItzSwxzy I know about the whole Geass powers tied to people's minds and personalities and why that makes each person's powers different, but the introduction of C's world and all that was a step too far for me, doubly so given stuff like C.C. basically being shut down to the state she was in prior to receiving the Code, which I found to be a horrible direction for her. I should clarify that the laughing and cheering and whatnot was regarding him shooting Euphemia . For Clovis, it was one big monument and speech. I have no real reason in R1 to believe that he was actually saddened by Clovis' death when that comes into play or the explanation of him tossing out Lelouch and Nunnally in S1, even with the true reveal in R2. These two realities are frankly inconsolable in my eyes, it does not seem reasonable to me that Charles was so radically different in his stated goals, revealed goals, and actions. I don't find him to be coherent as a result.

[@twizlerpacketz416]

Sweet

[@drewsmh6007]

BLAZBLUE MUSIC

[@kokowoch]

14:45 bro just went full moistcritikal

[@hostilegif]

man I love this video I love mecha autism so much

[@sandyjourneys]

I do find it funny that people who like lelouch would ignore his shortcomings I mean, I personally like characters who have obvious flaws but are still competent like Rorschach.

[@f2o.f2o]

Ah yes I love Code Geass content ❤

[@jakubgodyn7413]

About first fith between Laliuch v Cornelia. His soldiers didn't listen to him so what else could he do?

[@SerialNavelgazerCBF]

Not much, really. Dude was utterly bamboozled that episode, in for a big reality check there. They saw the signs as Cornelia's lack of fucks for her own soldiers and the constant repositioning Lelouch had to do showed that he couldn't account for her and was slowly being backed into a corner. He was quickly forced to scramble until any possibility he had in mind fell one by one. He underestimated Cornelia's prowess and ruthlessness, and as a result, lost some of his men and had to get bailed out by C.C.

[@ABCDEF-ft3et]

What you think of that new Code Geass spin off trailer?

[@SerialNavelgazerCBF]

It doesn't give me much to go off of regarding the characters or anything. I don’t really like the character or mech designs much, and I feel like there's a better chance of me not liking the cast than liking them tho. The axles are back but the combat sadly still doesn't feel like S1 tho it is getting somewhere. I will say the visuals are more promising than the new SEED movie trailer from earlier this past week. Very skeptical about the new writer and director, esp since the series composition is done by the person who did series comp for Gundam Build Metaverse and Divers (and Kyoukai Senki which I heard was a real miss).

[@ABCDEF-ft3et]

@@SerialNavelgazerCBF To me I just got Akito the Exiled 2.0 vibes from that trailer but with worse designs. It just upsetting that Sunrise seem to have forgotten why the original show was a hit in the first place, over the top knightmare fights and goofy looking character designs(seriously by far the worse of any Code Geass animated property) was never its big selling point.

[@SerialNavelgazerCBF]

I really hope it doesn't become Akito 2.0. If I'm being honest, I don't like thr fights in that series. The early CG models were hideous and even when they got shinier and more metallic like actual mechs, the camera made everything incomprehensible and borderline headache-inducing. I also despise the Alexander mechs which go completely against the general idea of Geass mecha design. tbf they never understood to begin with. Gorou Taneguchi and his teach weren't even given a proper studio by Sunrise to work with until halfway through S1 when the show was proving to be a success. It's a miracle Geass succeeded at all, and it still had to go off the air for several mo ths before they could finish the final eps of S1.

[@gundam5281]

Just out of curiosity; is Code geass essentially a Gundam show with different genres combined into one? I don't get how Code Geass managed to get popular, as it more or less takes several traits from past Gundam shows. Or is Code Geass entirely it's own thing?

[@SerialNavelgazerCBF]

It really is a fanmade AU starring a Char clone when you think about it. A good Char clone (and a better AU than most) but still. Right place, right time, plus total fujo tier boys with loads of drama for the female audience like with Gundam SEED. Plus, it lends itself well to the "unlike other mecha" crowd thanks to its premise. The only active connection is the studio tho, but I would not he surprised if they took elements from stuff like SEED given certain similarities.

[@gundam5281]

I do think the show is quite silly and over the top though. It does seem to get away with being praised for lending over the most popular aspects of the anime genre. Code Geass was really aimed at anime fans that have no knowledge of mecha or its influences.

[@SerialNavelgazerCBF]

@@gundam5281 It def is, and that's part of why it works so well, at least in R1. It's theatrical as hell while still (usually) knowing when to reel it back. It's def part of that common starter pack alongside Gurren Lagann (somehow) and Eva because yea it really hits the mid-2000s mass appeal while having similar appeals to Death Note which was ofc THE zeitgeist anime of the time.

[@gundam5281]

@@SerialNavelgazerCBF I think that's more-or-less in the case for the mecha anime that were 'properly' marketed in the western market. The case is rather different in Japan; that while two of the shows you mentioned (Gurren lagaan and Code geass) were successful in the 2000's, they were nowhere near as huge in popularity and sales than Gundam Seed and, to an extent, Macross Frontier.

[@gundam5281]

@@SerialNavelgazerCBF The reason why Gundam is nowhere near recognised in the West as other mecha anime, was really due to it's extremely poor handling in the dawn of the 2000's, with the only exception being Gundam Wing. Airing the uncut Original Gundam series in 2001 after Wing instead of After War Gundam X doomed the franchise in it's early stages of introduction. It's also why Gundam has since struggled to reinvigorate itself in the Western market.

[@julohan4121]

Whats your opinion on DX's video? Feel like it has done unrepairable damage to Geass discourse even tho his video is full of mistakes and misreadings of the show itself.

[@gundam5281]

His video was very well made TBH. He pretty tapped every point with a vast array of backed evidence and reasoning to support them. I do think some Code Geass fans at times can come across as very hypocritical and assertive in digesting any conflicting points made. Not to mention they seem to always be ready to lash out at anyone showing mild disagreement with either their beloved show or their own personal opinions. Common KZbin users I see doing this ALL THE TIME with their comment posts include 'Swxzy' and 'Suncanny'.

[@SerialNavelgazerCBF]

The S1 vid is pretty bad. Some of his criticisms of certain characters are uncharable to the point of being unfair (Kallen), and other criticisms are straight-up unfair or mal-informed/not understanding of what the point of certain things are. mfw lewd and/or potentially ship-baity merch is valid ammo to use against the show itself. The R2 one I agree more with and actually kinda like, sorta, tho it is a mixed bag that still engages with some of the weaker criticisms. It helps that R2 has way more issues than S1. It is weird how unlike basically all of his other "Anime I F*cking Hate" entries, he didn’t give even a passing mention to the OST when Geass has the best OST out of all the shows he covered.

[@suncanny1418]

The fact that some people actually believe that it's a well made critique is kinda sad.

[@suncanny1418]

@@gundam5281 Sorry for being correct. TBH I do admit that I used to be pretty salty and theres obviously nothing wrong with disliking code geass, but I just find it annoying when people who dislike code geass attempt to pass their opinions as objective facts despite often being complete BS.

[@KaizerKagano-oh9hn]

At least this anime shows reality rather than "ohh i'm an inhuman robot how does college level math in age 6 and i people are nothing but tools to me shit" (cote)

[@bnashtay2278]

Do I hear science fiction?!?!

[@mohdig9]

0:08 this dude saying EVA is the most popular mecha anime? have they not heard of gundam? Also, I HATE how people compare code geass and death note. Boiling down code geass to "guy uses special ability to change the corrupt world" is an absolutely smooth brained take

[@Fallen-Saint]

>Mega Man X5 Staff roll 👌

[@codenamepyro2350]

Suzaku is the absolute best representation of liberalism in anime. No meaningful change whatsoever, all through the system, even when the system itself is violently against you.

[@ItzSwxzy]

The people in those montages you showed arent very intelligent.

[@paulshipper143]

I think you misunderstood Suzaku.. and decided to do it on purpose. Suzaku's morals were in tact and consistent. They only got mixed up when you remember he was given a geass command. Then his morality started to change Though how come no one noticed that Suzaku's morality was created due to him killing his dad. Trauma aside, Suzaku means did not justify the ends, that's why Japan was fucked. Maybe that's why he doesn't think the ends justify the means :)

[@nengenusta6522]

I luv susaku . there was just something too cocky about lelouche that just always made me want to see him fail

[@shalindelta7]

I feel the same

[@tsarfox3462]

I like that Lelouch's plans don't accomplish 100% of what he wanted. I mean, let's be honest. If Suzaku and Colin were ever on the same side following Zero's orders, the the Black Knights would have taken over the world in one episode. Also it makes Lelouch a better character because he's not some flawless god and has flaws that lead to partial successes, failures, and/or unnecessary deaths.

[@sandyjourneys]

British people.

[@madaraUchiha-gv5dx]

why was bro yapping about other ppl expect suzaku in suzaku's part

[@suarz7737]

Lelouch is the goat watch your mouth