The 'morality' of the UK's immigration system | LBC debate

Iain Dale and his Cross Question panel discuss the UK's immigration system and whether there should be a 'limit' on how many migrants the UK welcomes.
The Cross Question panel: John Penrose - Conservative MP for Weston-super-Mare and Chair of the Conservative Policy Forum, Bell Ribeiro-Addy - Labour MP for Streatham, Lord (Edward) Faulks KC - non-affiliated peer and Chairman of the Independent Press Standards Organisation, Jacqueline McKenzie - Partner and Head of Immigration and Asylum Law at Leigh Day Solicitors.
Listen to the full show on Global Player: l-bc.co/ListenNow
#IainDale #CrossQuestion #LBC #UKPolitics #Rwanda
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[@khalilnasrallah3674]

Asylum and immigration is a big business for many UK companies who are making millions from the government contracts

[@toshtosh9482]

Asylum seekers and refugees, not immigrants. And there would be no need for people to be making money if the government did not have a hostile system that does not allow people to claim asylum without being on UK soil

[@EmanuelJames-es8sn]

The real overwhelming immigration is not from these war torn countries but countries like india

[@easytoassemble54321]

Yet again: more "we need to boost the numbers" rhetoric. As if a bulging population is key to boosting our standard of living. Look at countries around the world, and you'll see no correlation with large populations, GDP, and standard of living. The reason we have a skills shortage is because we never invested in our people when we had the chance. Bringing in more people is papering over the cracks, and a recipe for wage-depression.

[@SlowhandGreg]

Osborn cut nursing bursaries and doctor training places in 2010 as part of Austerity It will take over a decade to turn that decision around

[@drcommonsense1]

The real challenge is how to motivate a generation of youth to follow academic careers when they are surrounded by so much nonsense on social media influencing them to pursue careers like becoming an Internet celebrity or selling your body online by making it look like anyone can get rich doing this.

[@marumaru6084]

There is a direct correlation between our low productivity and mass immigration.

[@matty506]

How many young people have said to you in person that they want to be a online celebrity? My 15yo nephew and most of his friends want to be tradesmen @@drcommonsense1

[@adamp8872]

How many Ukrainians have perpetrated terror attacks in the west?

[@DavidCodyPeppers.]

How many Ukrainian men of fighting age would be cowardly enough to flee instead of fighting for their own country? 🕊️

[@user-ou3cq1gk9m]

How many countries has Britain assisted Bombing with America ?

[@MollyRuiz733]

That same old chestnut 😂

[@toshtosh9482]

The usual diversion from the issue.

[@adamp8872]

@@MollyRuiz733 yes that pesky factual issue that just doesn’t go away no matter how loud you scream racism at it.

[@evolassunglasses4673]

Quick reminder that there is no upper limit to diversity. You'll just be endlessly told things are too White until you wake up one day to something between Mogadishu and Karachi.

[@bizzjoe]

Exactly.. the woke mind virus is a terrible thing.

[@matty7758]

​@@bizzjoecan you define "woke"

[@apemoon1731]

@@matty7758 Woke; a word used to describe those so arrogant, hypocritical and narcissistic that they find fault in everything except their own opinions.

[@alwhyte6533]

​@@apemoon1731weird...that sounds very much like the right in this country.

[@infosuge]

@@apemoon1731 woke: a word used by idiots who also believe in thing like “red pills” and “the matrix” and are regularly outraged and frustrated with the world they live in while being sold out by the pundits grifters and politicians they subscribe too

[@mcchigby]

I'll try to make the argument more simple for people. Lots of people in the UK were born between 1940-1980. Those people are now retired, close to retirement, or maximised their position in their chosen job or industry. That generation chose to have less kids so now we have a lower number of people born between 1990-2020 (compared to 1940-1980) That means as more people enter retirement, there isn't enough people coming up to replace them in their jobs. People are continuing to have less kids so to fill empty jobs we need higher immigration otherwise we wouldn't have enough nurses or electricians or call centre, etc etc.

[@infosuge]

Ah I see, so your saying the great replacement theory is actually just the effect of neoliberal economic policy.

[@TheAArmstrong]

@@infosuge I love how a few months back they scoffed it off as a conspiracy by “faaah raaayt” 😂

[@kristianhumphreys]

Absolute nonsense

[@mob1662]

So there should be no limit? How? What about a small thing called infrastructure? 🤔

[@90kaste]

The scapegoat of the boats is laughable. The whole system is built on the wrong premises of "legality" and the "right" to be in the UK. This is a quick reminder that 1950-60, there were no borders, passports, or nothing. In 2023, we had a border specifically for people because, for example, money from Russia has constantly been flowing freely. There's such a misconception and misunderstanding of a complete narrative that, if taken in small pieces, comes out like this almost comical discussion on nothingness.

[@10md.]

​​​​@@90kastein 2019 the EU region had 4.8 million illegals, you know how much of them were in the UK, 1.2 million, there are 27 countries in the EU and England held a quarter of all illegals in 2019... do you think that's fine, the money spent housing them is ridiculous and they arent putting money back in, if I remember right they arent allowed to work for years, so thats more money

[@ravd8082]

there should be no limit? unlimited immigration ? UK a small country we cant accommodate everyone

[@ravd8082]

@@90kaste its not laughable , people coming here and are going missing in the country we dont who these people are its a security threat , there needs to be a cap on immigration

[@peterbrailey1788]

Riding the system is wrong, like a one trick pony - Tories and Borders, jeez, they've locked us in to fleece us, that's the issue

[@apemoon1731]

Of course there should be limits!

[@BrapMan]

Did we limit our own numbers when we colonised America, Africa, or Australia? Now think of our lack of need to migrate back then and compare that to the dire need for assylum seekers to migrate. This is a humanitarian issue, our own comfort should come secondary to it.

[@TheAArmstrong]

@@BrapMan our comfort is first priority

[@jackcogi9586]

@@BrapMan yeah because after we left africa's doing great aint it so is india

[@BrapMan]

@@jackcogi9586 How did Jack the Ripper's vicims do after he left?

[@BrapMan]

@@TheAArmstrong how very capitolist of you

[@dextercool]

It's not about the 'size' of the country - it's about the housing. I'm all for immigration for economic growth but where will they live? What will that do to rents?

[@alwhyte6533]

You could start with the £20 billion of empty housing stock in London, maybe?

[@infosuge]

@@alwhyte6533so let’s fix the housing list so we can accommodate more people who are just coming in?

[@SlowhandGreg]

​@@infosugeThatcherism needs immigration without it you'd get economic implosion If your prepared to move to a more socially managed economy you can reduce immigration that means higher taxes especially on wealth you'll hear squat from the media on the real cause of high legal migration

[@douglastaggart9360]

At what point then does the nation doesn't exist anymore.

[@shelleyphilcox4743]

When my Dad worked overseas, sometimes we could go and he got a family visa and sometimes not, and he would be away for months at a time while we stayed at home. When my ex husband worked overseas, sometimes we went as a family and sometimes not. This was the prerogative of the country where the work was and the personal choice of my family whether to take the work under the conditions being offered. Those countries did not have an obligation to accommodate the whole family...they had a job that needed doing and my Dad and ex wanted to do the job and as a family we adapted to that and did not say that the country offering work was somehow immoral for not accommodating the whole family! Each country decides what they can support in terms of demands on housing, infrastructure, services and natural resources and sets out their offer of work a accordingly and that is perfectly fine.

[@kellykreqeli8924]

What about how the poorest in the uk are being treated? I blame the government who should have done something about our border should have been done along time ago I live in Kent and the pressure on our housing dentists if you can get one doctors hospitals And now jobs is an absolute joke

[@charlesflouvat1829]

Which smug MP said that it would be economic madness to search the lorry's coming through Dover 🤔

[@xbriskx]

Ian Dale doesnt understand the figure is overall figure.

[@placeofpeace9777]

EU citizens don’t have to pay a dime for settlement in the U.K, whereas it cost me £2408. How is that moral? Even children from non EU countries have to pay the same amount! Very immoral.

[@johnrussell3961]

Frost was negotiating for them , not the UK.

[@Me-ui1zy]

Thats what the UK wanted wasnt it?

[@rosarose3443]

Will all the generous individuals who want more unvetted asylum seekers that have thrown their passports away on their way to the UK give these unvetted young males a room alongside their vulnerable children given that there are not enough homes for the growing population already living here?

[@DavidCodyPeppers.]

Comment deleted number 1 🕊️

[@presidentpotato222]

Dear Chris .. your NOT a Very Smart Man

[@DavidCodyPeppers.]

1:26 The point is ASYLUM SEEKERS are arriving from dangerous situations and regrettably many regions that have been destabilized are because of the West cant keep our hands to ourselves and the people that reside in these regions happen to have a different skin color. 🕊️

[@apemoon1731]

How naive.

[@DavidCodyPeppers.]

​@@apemoon1731 How so?

[@toshtosh9482]

​@@apemoon1731Nothing naive about the facts.

[@reupbeatz2174]

Can’t treat people as people because there’s too many

[@peterbrailey1788]

Build homes on golf courses

[@ravd8082]

😂this is your answer

[@DavidCodyPeppers.]

Comment deleted number 2 🕊️

[@DavidCodyPeppers.]

Doing some experiments to see what combination of words are blacklisted from my original posts. Pretty sure I know what they were 🕊️

[@DavidCodyPeppers.]

Christian American Nationalist. 🕊️

[@user-fy8zz7xh2m]

Yes.

[@DavidCodyPeppers.]

I am a Christian American Nationalist. (✔️ Out my 🥖 🥞 if you want to know how I define that category; and if you think that makes me a right winger I'd say you are as prejudiced as those you Judge) and even I, who wants to welcome 9 million Palestinians as full citizens acknowledge there is a logistical limit to how many immigrants a place/Nation can absorb. I also want to point out that IMO a citizen should have the right to housing before non citizens. 🕊️

[@alwhyte6533]

If a person is accepted for asylum, they ARE a citizen.

[@django3422]

You're expressing inherently right wing views.

[@DavidCodyPeppers.]

@@django3422 Which view I expressed is right wing? 🕊️

[@django3422]

@@DavidCodyPeppers. Dividing between citizens and non-citizens, giving preference on human rights to citizens.

[@DavidCodyPeppers.]

@@django3422 I never did non citizens don't have human rights. This is about the allocation of resources created by a specific group of people (citizens of a nation). I specified housing to citizens. Seeing how their money paid for it. You don't believe in citizenship? I don't believe I have ever heard a person say that. Or perhaps you believe the entire world is only one nation and all borders should be erased? 🕊️

[@DavidCodyPeppers.]

Comment deleted number 3 and 4. Guess what words are blacklisted: ✔️ Out my 🥖 🥞. Without a link no less 🕊️

[@michaelgriffiths5723]

Looking at Bell, it seems the calibre of MPs in the Labour Party has also hit the the bottom of the barrel!

[@user-gw2bi9xr7e]

Rwanda is a great idea. Ukraine has a legitimate war with legitimate refugee's. If you don't think race is a legitimate Cultural issue, you don't remember British, African or Arab history. We are now fighting our 3rd war with Islamic State? If other Countries could manage their affairs as well as Briton, we would have a better world. Britain ended Colonialism, ended slavery, adopted Christianity. Ended child labor. Other parts of the world are still behind the times. Let them catch up at home.

[@B--ko2xt]

Your apostrophe is illegitimate

[@django3422]

Kinda funny, you suggesting that other people don't know their history...

[@jimmyrecard5056]

Thats because western governments dont put any effort into intergrating people of different cultures into our society, they just drop them in with no information to the locals about them, no programs of workshops about intergrating. Thats the problem, not a cultural difference

[@user-gw2bi9xr7e]

@@django3422 There are always revised and alternative facts (lies) that are propogated. Ruwanda is one of The Continents most progressive countries, a nice place. What history would you add?

[@django3422]

@@user-gw2bi9xr7e Britain ended colonialism... kinda, but not really. And they were one of its biggest proponents for a long time. Britain ended slavery... kinda, but again not really. They did nothing to end the practice in general, still worked and traded with nations using slaves and did nothing to divest those who'd profited massively off slaves. Quite the opposite, they were "bought out" with taxpayer money. Adopting Christianity... so? Are you aware of the atrocities committed, both at home and abroad, by British people in the name of Christianity? As for child labour, same deal as slavery. Sure, we stopped it in Britain. And then just outsourced so much of our labour to places where child labour was intertwined with slavery. That's a really rough breakdown but I hope it demonstrates just how much you're being ignorant of in making these weak, nationalistic claims.

[@rahimsmohamed]

I want a Ukrainian for Christmas

[@DavidCodyPeppers.]

They are too busy fighting for their country. Let's hope, anyway. 🕊️

[@brianferguson7840]

A Ukrainian is for life not just for Xmas !

[@jackcogi9586]

they came over got put in birmingham and then decided to go back and live in a war

[@captricharddee3634]

I normally buy a Turkey, however you're right, there's more meat on a Ukrainian and with a cost of living crisis and high inflation, it makes sense.

[@90kaste]

The scapegoat of the boats is laughable. The whole system is built on the wrong premises of "legality" and the "right" to be in the UK. This is a quick reminder that 1950-60, there were no borders, passports, or nothing. In 2023, we had a border specifically for people because, for example, money from Russia has constantly been flowing freely. There's such a misconception and misunderstanding of a complete narrative that, if taken in small pieces, comes out like this almost comical discussion on nothingness.

[@fabiennemitchell2371]

Passports have been in use for approximately 123 years more or less!