The Most Controversial Objects at the British Museum - Stolen Goods or Finders Keepers?

Looking for more information about the British Museum? Watch my video about its top ten treasures. • The Top Ten Treasures ...
Don’t forget to like, comment, and subscribe. Leave a comment and let me know your thoughts about the controversies of the British Museum.
As always, thanks for watching. If you enjoyed this virtual tour, please consider leaving me a tip at www.paypal.com/paypalme/jessi... or buy me a coffee at www.buymeacoffee.com/JessicaG... - Thank you!
You can also become a member of my channel for all kinds of great perks - click the membership button below.
/ @themuseumguide
SUMMARY:
In this video, Jessica the Museum Guide (that’s me!) explores the complexities and nuance of the British Museum’s controversies from the 18th century through to today. I present the detailed facts, laws, and museum policies, as well as explain how these five iconic objects came to the museum.
Remember - it’s possible to love the museum but still want it to do better and rectify mistakes of the past. I believe in repatriation when requested - and maybe you will, too, after watching this video.
0:00 - Introduction to the Controversies
4:52 - Hoa Hakananai’a (Easter Island Moai)
8:36 - Common Arguments against Repatriation
12:05 - Gweagal Shield
17:02 - Hans Sloane and the Enlightenment Era Mentality
19:27 - Rosetta Stone
24:49 - UK Laws and British Museum Policies
31:06 - Benin Bronzes
37:44 - Parthenon Sculptures - Will Elgin lose his marbles?
Yemi has a good video about the Benin Bronzes from a Nigerian point of view. • Uncovering The Secrets...
Remember - if you’re planning a trip to London, you can book a tour with me. Email me at [e-mail] or visit my website at www.themuseumguide.com
Like The Museum Guide on Facebook!
/ themuseumguide
You should really join the London Urban Oddities Facebook group to submit your favourite weird places in London. / 2037408773114764
Special thanks to Elizabeth Fraccaro, JD for her legal advice on this topic.
Hana Elvy creates my thumbnails - you can hire her to make your KZbin thumbnails here:
www.peopleperhour.com/hourlie...

[@TheMuseumGuide]

Enjoyed this video? Tour the British Museum's Strangest Objects next: kzbin.info/www/bejne/gZKUaJSEgN6lb8U If you enjoyed this virtual tour, please consider leaving me a tip at www.paypal.com/paypalme/jessicatourguide or buy me a coffee at www.buymeacoffee.com/JessicaGuide - Thank you!

[@joycestroup8830]

I'd like to leave you a tip. Don't file your nails to a point and paint them black.

[@TheMuseumGuide]

@@joycestroup8830 why? Also, they’re olive green 🤣

[@joycestroup8830]

@@TheMuseumGuide Maybe they are part of a costume.

[@joycestroup8830]

Sorry

[@joycestroup8830]

I just didn't think it fit with your obvious intelligence.

[@channelwhatchamacallit2614]

All I can say is, if its a question of world culture, I think replicas work just fine. You don't need the original piece to learn about it and the culture it came from.

[@Bringontheasteroid]

So send them all a free copy

[@4LLT0G3TH3R]

​@@Bringontheasteroid the museums have made enough money off them to create jobs for artists doing just that.

[@danielcuevas5899]

Well, radio carbon dating not so much.

[@lrwguitar]

You need the originals, what the hell are you talking about, if it was a new reproduction it wouldn't be a museum would it.

[@organicmagic8822]

@@lrwguitar the items can stay in their countries of origin

[@mabdub]

This video was presented in a very thoughtful and respectful manner. Obviously, a great deal of scholarship was involved in researching the information for presentation. Thank you.

[@TheMuseumGuide]

Thank you! I have been working on it for months. :)

[@cattymajiv]

@@TheMuseumGuide I have to agree. This was just magnificent! Such a thorough and well explained examination of the issues involved. Thank you so very much! As a Canadian of British descent, and a lover of ancient civilizations, I still do tend to favour repatriation, but now I can express why in a more intelligent way. Thank you so very much!

[@TheMuseumGuide]

@@cattymajiv Thank you for watching!

[@Astroteolog]

@@TheMuseumGuide give it back where it belongs

[@juandebermudez1435]

We have a world seed bank to preserve our commitment to the environment, perhaps a world culture bank to protect our commitment to preservation of culture is an appropriate idea worth international debate.

[@TheArnaa]

We had a fascinating television series here in Australia called “Stuff the British Stole” presented by Mark Fennell. It covered the object’s origin, how it was obtained, its importance to the people it was stolen from and why they want it back. It was quite eye opening.

[@TheMuseumGuide]

That sounds really interesting! I’ll have a look for it.

[@hilohattie3681]

Go Aussies!

[@kiribati9393]

it's also the questions of how a community is represented, or decides in today's world, are we the direct ancestors/ direct descendants of this t culture or people from the past

[@solvigjonsdottir970]

We heard it on CBC Documentaries here in Canada and my favourite was the Dodo.

[@neverceded6643]

@@kiribati9393 you mob/Australian ?

[@BwInNewJersey]

Finders Keepers should be Britain’s national motto throughout history

[@TheMuseumGuide]

You’re not wrong.

[@cmamelgna5585]

Absolutely couldn't agree more.

[@konstantinostzas8005]

The Parthenon Marbles section as is of particular interest, clarity around the existence of the firman and other arrangements was interesting and illuminating. I had no idea that 2.5mm had been 'scrubbed' from some the pieces. Shudder. Anyway, good work! Brave.

[@TheMuseumGuide]

Thank you for watching! I don’t feel very brave as of yet, as this video isn’t getting many views. Please share with any you think would be interested!

[@samgrant83]

Hey, the Turks would have ground them all up and there would have been nothing left - but criticise the Museum.

[@jojojo8835]

Agreed- but also the wholesale theft of artefacts in 2nd Iraq war, and the vandalism actions of Daesh/taliban etc also made me realise there is some wisdom in every culture scattering a few examples of their own artefacts around the world. But it should be by choice, and reciprocal. If we keep the ‘Elgin’ marbles then we should send them Stonehenge.

[@TheMuseumGuide]

There are many grey areas indeed. Thanks for watching!

[@AmonAnon-vw3hr]

Imagine the wealth of glorious artifacts lost before the preservers of history managed to save them.

[@jasonstormsong4940]

@@AmonAnon-vw3hr And the many more instances when great works are lost in the midst of a foreign army invading countries, sacking cities that fell to them, and pillaging the defeated land and people alike.

[@jasonallen6081]

How is it the louvre in Paris can get away with it but the British museum can't ?

[@TheMuseumGuide]

I ask myself this all the time.

[@ems4884]

The French have not been quite as self-flaggellating as the British about the sins of empire. If you glance at history or French decolonization, you'll find that they were noticably more reluctant to "let go" than the UK. There's also the phenomenon of postwar French cultural nationalism which has always been quite strong and some say it's all coupled to a lingering Bonapartist politics. (Also a traditional Tory criticism of the French ever since Waterloo, I would say.) It's very much for the British people to decide when there's been sufficient masochism and apology for imperialism. I do think there must be a point where that national cultural process must come to a close, however. Why? Quite simply, because Britain's international relations with it's forner colonies must be based on a future, not a past. And some of those former colonies have quite a history of nationalism and imperialism as well. They may soon again. Here's a weird hypothetical: Will a weak post-Brexit Britain still be apologizing to rising world powers? Personally, I don't think cultural politics are the best way to grapple with the "sins of empire.". But this is coming from an American historian who has grown up in the midst of the "culture wars" and, frankly, is exhausted by the sheer destructive havoc they have wrought. (And I'm left wing! I'm supposed to think they are worth fighting!). The French might not offer the best approach to these issues, to be fair. But my guess is that Britain has already found the right balance and simply needs to persuade its citizens (and at least some portion of the citizens of the Commonwealth, but likely not their strong nationalists) that it has done so.

[@alissakauffman3727]

I agree. Also, if we are going to rage on the British museum, we need to out pressure on the State Hermitage Museum in st. Petersburg, and others.

[@dominicdmello7531]

Like the Kohinoor Diamond, yes it was sold, but sold under duress by minor heir of a king. Likewise a lot of the 'purchases ' were also shady dealings by subjugated people trying to get individual benefit. Even your courts wouldn't uphold such 'purchases '🤨 You should also talk about such purchases

[@joshwenn989]

The Kohinoor that likely isn't even from India in the first place? Where one of the first mentions of it in recorded history is how it was taken from someone else?

[@ems4884]

​@@joshwenn989 ah see. This is the perfect example of a repatriation debate that will never get anywhere other than through meticulous historical research and legal expertise. I seriously doubt most people in this comments section have either of those professional skills.

[@Spangletiger]

Always love discovering a great channel and, what an important and informative video this is to discover your channel through! Since the technology and expertise to replicate artefacts exists, we should be doing so and returning original pieces requested by their rightful owners. The only reason that we should hold onto an object is if the government, or people, that it belongs to have given us their permission and blessings to. Visitors can learn as much from studying replicas as they can from originals and, I would love visiting the BM (and other museums) even more if I had the peace of mind from knowing that original artefacts were where they belonged, either gifted or loaned to us by the rightful owners or back where they belong. Let the Moai ancestors go home!

[@TheMuseumGuide]

Thank you for watching!

[@dr.a.995]

First time I see your work. It was impressive in the level of analysis you employed with each national treasure. Think I will click some more and discover what other gems you have for us. Perhaps a word or two on the very much ignored pre-dynastic sites all over Egypt.

[@TheMuseumGuide]

Thank you for watching!

[@GoHARD99]

I respect the fact that you let us know your qualifications. And your view on the subject 😊

[@TheMuseumGuide]

Thank you!

[@makylemur7019]

I would suggest that an exact copy be made and retained by the museum and the original then be returned. Then the copy can be placed on exhibit.

[@TheMuseumGuide]

Most people aren’t fans of copies! They definitely don’t have the draw. I still think it’s a good solution.

[@almightysosa3007]

@@TheMuseumGuidethen they should go to the country of origin to see the original, just another reason why the British should give back much of their stolen works

[@AmonAnon-vw3hr]

@almightysosa3007 as soon as their technology is returned.

[@TheMontclef88]

Just dropping a note to say I love this channel and your content! Interesting, well made, informative, inclusive of multiple perspectives. Thanks!

[@TheMuseumGuide]

Thank you so much Michael!

[@tamarrajames3590]

I absolutely love the care and attention you put into all your content. Your willingness to present both sides of some very complex questions of “ownership” is refreshing. The museum in Victoria BC has been giving back a great deal of indigenous totem poles and other sacred objects back to the people whose Ancestors made them…to very mixed opinions of the public. We MUST look seriously at these items.🖤🇨🇦

[@TheMuseumGuide]

Oh no, I didn’t mean to present “both sides” in an equal way! 🤣 all kidding aside, i presenting the opposing arguments so I could debunk them. ;) I’m from Vancouver, btw! I believe in repatriation of totem poles 100% of the time.

[@tamarrajames3590]

@@TheMuseumGuide Lol…I figured that, but it is a great way to end run the issues. I lived in Vancouver for ten great years, it is a very special place. I too agree with returning the totem poles and other sacred objects, they only have proper context with those who understand what they are. When I was a girl, the museum had all the indigenous items jumbled together, with no reference to tribe or meaning (it WAS in the 50s), but finding Haida pieces mixed in with Mohawk and Huron was both disrespectful and confusing. They did a great rebuild in the 60s/70s, and did try to do a better job with their exhibits, but some things just belong with the people who live what those pieces come from and represent. The way Native collections were built was just so wrong. Thanks for not shying away from this subject.🖤🇨🇦

[@Narrow-Pather]

The question of "ownership" isn't complex.... If you steal something, no matter how long you possess it, it's stolen property!

[@TheMuseumGuide]

Did you watch the video? For some of these items, like the Rosetta Stone or Parthenon Sculptures, there is no consensus that they were indeed stolen.

[@cattymajiv]

@@Narrow-Pather Exactly. Or even if it was not you who stole it, but if you possess it and the original owner wants it back, if there is no written agreement, then it goes back home. There are always those who try to claim that the items were legally given (or sold). But if there is any doubt whatsoever, the object should always go back home. This should always be the automatic default position, without exceptions.

[@mskowrunski]

We had such a wonderful time visiting the British museum with you earlier this month. These videos are great!

[@TheMuseumGuide]

Thank you so much!! It was my pleasure.

[@mollysheridan7134]

You might find it interesting to know that, in 2002, when I asked a guard at the British Museum to direct me to the marbles her first remark was an almost hostile “why?” I’m American and she’d clearly had recent unpleasant encounters. I also want to say that I literally gasped out loud when you got to the “cleaning” of the Parthenon marbles. I knew about the trimming and sea retrieval but not about that.

[@ems4884]

I think you just met a guard who was having a bad day. Everyone who goes to the BM sees the Elgin marbles.

[@mollysheridan7134]

@@ems4884 Ah. I should have clarified. This was 20 years ago not long after some pretty invasive demonstrations regarding the return of the marbles. I wasn’t surprised or upset by her question. I just found it interesting.

[@TheMuseumGuide]

Very interesting!

[@nogmog3029]

If you’ve not visited the Guildhall Museum in Rochester, Kent, UK, I recommend! I grew up visiting regularly and still love it as an adult! Last time I visited it was free and open 6 days a week. It’s split over two buildings. My favourite room will always be the replica prison hulk, above and below deck!

[@TheMuseumGuide]

I live in Kent, so I’ll definitely take your suggestion!

[@nogmog3029]

@@TheMuseumGuideoh wow that’s cool! Same!

[@user-ds3iv6oj4d]

Thankyou, this is a very interesting topic and you made a great job explaining the details! I loved to listen and to watch! ❤

[@TheMuseumGuide]

Glad you enjoyed it!

[@charliekezza]

If the country of origin asks for the desputed objects back, especially if they are human remains there should be a way to get them back. Make exact replicas for display. Although this will open a flood gate. The Aussie in me wants that sheild back, that is our history.

[@TheMuseumGuide]

I agree with replicas, but do you think they’ll have the same draw and “magic?”

[@DonaldWMeyers-dwm]

@@TheMuseumGuide I think it can. There was an exhibition a couple years ago at the Oregon Museum of Science and Industry in Portland that featured replicas of the artifacts from Tutankhamen's tomb, including a 3-D printed facsimilie of his mummy, and it was quite popular. I don't know if I'll ever get to Egypt, but I appreciated seeing what Howard Carter described as "wonderful things" without depriving the Egyptians of their national treasure.

[@hughesey009]

The guy lost and the victor took a trophy. Was a common thing all over the world back then.

[@Taylor-nf7ll]

Thank you, this was very thought provoking and provided the family some very interesting conversation. We appreciate all your videos.

[@TheMuseumGuide]

Thank you so much!

[@johnnzboy]

Great video, you dealt with this subject and these fascinating objects with sensitivity, insight and humour. Brava!

[@TheMuseumGuide]

Thank you kindly!

[@lillia5333]

Thanks for this great video! I really appreciated your genuin, but nuanced support for repatriation. Hugs from Norway

[@TheMuseumGuide]

Thank you for watching!

[@MelEveritt]

Just stumbled across your channel and not only binging your videos but subbed too. So very well done. 😊

[@TheMuseumGuide]

Thank you!

[@kenichinishikawa7007]

I saw Elgin marble in British museum many years ago. I saw Parthenon sculptures, friezes and metopes in new Acropolis museum. I was very glad to know some of them were copied and it looks perfect. Since they were copied, I wonder it is important that the original pieces need to be back to Greece and British museum should get the copied pieces. But it is very difficult to swap them.

[@TheWrightLifeTravelChannel]

This was really well done. There are some important objects in the BM that are not well labeled or displayed!

[@TheMuseumGuide]

Very true! Thank you for watching.

[@antiquevlogging]

Its also free to visit most museums in the uk 🇬🇧

[@TheMuseumGuide]

That’s because they’re publicly funded. :)

[@oswaldcannon9483]

HUH? That's insane! I wish we had that in the US

[@DerekDerekDerekDerekDerekDerek]

​@@oswaldcannon9483work on public healthcare first haha

[@jedgrahek1426]

This was wonderful, just found your channel. I'm in complete agreement with your perspective (and the mention of Byron's opinion gives the lie to the so-popular notion of "that's just what everyone thought back then"... I'm more of the opinion that decent people have always existed, and almost always been ignored), and I respect the detail you provided and how neutral your information was, despite having a clear opinion yourself. I look forward for watching more of your videos, this was very enlightening.

[@TheMuseumGuide]

What a wonderful compliment! Thank you so much. (And I’m always excited to talk about Byron 😂)

[@divaden47]

I used to work in the BM before they ruined it with the ghastly makeover. There was always a controversy about countries wanting items back.

[@TheMuseumGuide]

Yes, it’s a lasting controversy for sure. What did you prefer about the old museum design?

[@ems4884]

There are people who do not enjoy the Norman Foster renovation? My only complaint is the lower level bogs under the library. They have terrible air circulation.

[@loganbetzen1538]

I disagree with a couple small things, however, you have a very well versed argument, and I thoroughly enjoyed listening to your analysis and thoughts. You’ve earned a subscriber. Cheers!

[@TheMuseumGuide]

Welcome aboard!

[@jamieknight326]

I’m new to the channel and wow, your style is amazing. I’ve been watching lots of your videos today and I’m learning heaps. One thing I’ve noticed is that you say ‘the link above’ from time to time but none of the links appear. I wonder if KZbin broke something. Thanks for brilliant content. I can’t wait to see what you make in the future. (PS: if you’ve never been I’d highly recommend the Somerset County Museum at Taunton Castle. The large Roman mosaics are beautiful and unique to the region. The museum is inside the historic castle :))

[@TheMuseumGuide]

I think the links might be my fault! I’ll double check all of them. Thanks for watching.

[@crustywafflechunks]

This was a clear and reasoned look at all the pertainent issues. Thank you for the education. I would enjoy more videos like this. I’m a member of the Council of Canadians who’s mandate is stewardship of fresh water. Also a member of LEAP for Lucy. The Edmonton valley zoos abused elephant, trying to get her sent to sanctuary. Different issues but the same in trying to gain a consensus of the population in how best to care for these commodities. World culture seems like an excuse to hang on to objects as each culture can differ by enormous degrees. I appreciate that the museum is trying to include the history of an object but the Grand Tour collectors where an acquisitive generation that just doesn’t exist for most of us anymore. Why aggrandize that time instead of displaying the objects as “ look what our fellow men have created” in order to confirm Human Culture. Thanks for the education 😊

[@TheMuseumGuide]

Thank you for watching! I’ve followed Lucy’s story for many years, very sad.

[@cattymajiv]

@crustywafflechunks. I thought she was long gone, years ago! You're not telling me Lucy is still here in Edmonton now, I hope! I will have to check this, because that is absurd and terribly cruel! I thought she did go to a sanctuary years ago! That's just monsterous! Please let me know, just a yes or no, and who I can contact about it, to try to help her.

[@josepoika5388]

❤❤❤YOU DO NOT HAVE TO FEAR DEATH IF YOU BELIEVE IN JESUS CHRIST, AND TRUST IN HIM WITH ALL YOUR HEART, BECAUSE HE ATONED FOR YOU FOR ALL YOUR INSULTS, THAT YOU WOULD OBTAIN PEACE WITH ALMIGHTY GOD, AND GO TO HEAVEN BY HIS GRACE!!!!!❤❤❤!!!❤❤❤!!!❤❤❤!!!❤

[@rabiariaz2112]

Thank you for this very informative tour!

[@TheMuseumGuide]

Glad it was helpful!

[@jasonwb6884]

Glad the Stone of Destiny was given back to Scotland. Was in Westminster abbey for a long time.

[@TheMuseumGuide]

I agree!

[@mka1967]

thoroughly enjoying your videos from Philadelphia, Pennsylvania

[@TheMuseumGuide]

Thank you for watching!

[@kevinchambers1101]

What happens to items if returned to unstable countries? There are cases where war was the cause of a major museum being ransacked.

[@TheMuseumGuide]

Unstable countries usually don’t have the infrastructure and organizational capacity to even launch a repatriation request.

[@paulwillard9687]

I’m just going to say if a most of it didn’t end up in the museum when it did then it would of been destroyed by time, war or the black market so in my opinion at least it’s safe, also under British law possession is 9 tenths of the law.

[@TheMuseumGuide]

That’s certainly not the case for many objects- and some have been stolen here (most recently, by Museum staff - amp.theguardian.com/culture/2023/aug/26/british-museum-reputation-damaged-treasures-loss)

[@Cletus_the_Elder]

I hope there is a way to establish a compensation fund to establish secure repositories for artifacts in the countries of origin. When I see the willful destruction of artifacts in regions overtaken by violent zealots, repatriating artifacts means handing them over to be destroyed or to be sold on the black market.

[@AvaGrail]

Hi time for this !! thank you so much for your work

[@TheMuseumGuide]

My pleasure!

[@jucadvgv3449]

i DON'T think she made much of an argument to send the rosetta stone back. actually, what she said made me think that gb has a right to keep it.

[@TheMuseumGuide]

I wasn’t really arguing for one side or another with this one, just presenting the facts. It’s one of the rare cases where I’m not fully on board with repatriation.

[@nikbull1258]

I only found your site yesterday and am slowly catching up on all episodes. You are fabulous. Great narrative, research and visuals. Keep it up. Love from NZ.

[@TheMuseumGuide]

Wow, thank you!

[@SmilerORocker]

9:05 Like northern Ireland for example 🤔🤫 Tum ti tum (walks away quietly whistling) 👍🇮🇪

[@TheMuseumGuide]

🤣☘️

[@MymilanitalyBlogspot]

Hi, would you please add an addendum regarding the ICOM agreement, I believe of 1971/2, its content, and implications for this topic? Thanks!

[@TheMuseumGuide]

I'm not really sure what you're referring to - ICOM is an NGO, and not legally binding. While the BM is a member and ICOM establishes suggested codes of conduct, the BM is governed by the British Museum Act.

[@Name-ot3xw]

I think it's both cool and tragic that the Parthenon lasted up until someone decided to fill it with gunpowder.

[@TheMuseumGuide]

Ugh, it hurts my heart to think about.

[@SaphirXC3]

There is this pretty common joke in my friend group: "Why are the pyramids in Egypt? - Because they didn't fit in the British museum". I visited the museum last New year's Eve and was genuinely shocked by the amount of objects and huge structures from foreign countries that were proudly displayed and very often without any context about their complicated past. So thank you very much for this video and giving the interested some more context on that topic! I, too, believe in repatriation, but as many pointed out, I am a bit torn when it comes to countries with dubious leadership (e.g. Afghanistan). Yes, it is to an extent patronizing and neo-colonial to have an opinion on a country's stability and ability to care for an object, but I wonder what would weigh more. Giving the artifact back at all costs or ensuring the basic survival of the artifact. But in the end, i dont really see a case where I would think this question needs to even be asked, since groups that claim artifacts back, do so because they want to care for the objects themselves. And as you already pointed out early on in the video, we shouldn't start hand out objects nobody asked for.

[@TheMuseumGuide]

Some good points! Thank you for watching.

[@jenniferindigochameleon6680]

That’s the joke she opened with… you didn’t event watch, just had to blurt into the comments

[@Simon-ho6ly]

now, lets say the taliban or IS wanted artifacts back such the rest of the assyrian statues they had been destroying, with the intent to destroy those as well, should they be returned? Or for example, take the chile museum fire a few years ago, some of its collections were irreplacable, had those been spread around the world in other museums and collections.. some would still survive so its hard to know what the best path is

[@SaphirXC3]

@jenniferindigochameleon6680 nope, I use an ad blocker that also skips through intros, and unfortunately sometimes it tends to crop too much 🤷‍♀️ I saw later that she made that joke too. But thank you for your presumtious concerns.

[@SaphirXC3]

@Simon-ho6ly since both groups consider non-islamic art as undesirable, I am very confident there won't be any such request. Also, the Taliban and the IS are both militia organisations founded in the 1990s. They don't have any legitimation (historically and according to international law) to claim historical artifacts from museums.

[@legomandk9964]

Some artifacts are so precious that it is best to use copies for display. Some regions of the world have to much unrest to safely return artifacts to the region.

[@abnormallyfunny]

A decent measured argument in each case although I feel a touch of bias came through with the Parthenon sculptures. These large international collections may have a questionable past but as they currently exist are invaluable. They are institutions that educate and bring people and cultures together. It would be a shame if they were lost. Devil's advocate, to what extent can a modern nation state claim the cultural "greatness" of an ancient civilisation?

[@TheMuseumGuide]

I’m am definitely biased- i believe in repatriation.

[@maryrosearimoto5803]

I always enjoy your tours and this one is especially good but you covered a very difficult subject. Please continue to educate the public. Thank you!

[@TheMuseumGuide]

It was tough to write! I am glad you enjoyed it. Please share with your friends. :)

[@yensid4294]

I would be fine with seeing reproductions, photos or virtual exhibits. Even in Egypt, they often display reproductions of tombs since people traipsing thru have done damage so the tombs are mostly closed to tourism. Museums in America & Europe could cultivate better international relationships & arrange for visiting collections of other countries to tour(like the Tut collection has) The collections don't have to be permanent.

[@TheMuseumGuide]

I think that sounds great.

[@BleakSquirrel]

OMG! So glad you are back! Eeeek. I’ll try hold my thoughts till the end.

[@BleakSquirrel]

This a very controversial subject. It really comes down to knowing the full history of the piece. I hear their gripe but some cases want the object back into their cultures. Gifts are gifts. hope most are well documented. Being an anthropology major allows me to lean towards giving many objects back. However, it is very important to show the billions on the planet the HISTORY behind these objects. With the new 3-D printing they have today….maybe it is worth trying with the small but MOST important artifacts returning the object IF they have a secure spot that people can continue to learn from them. Make sure all security measures are in effect. This was just an opinion. I do 😂realize there were “certain rules or allowances from the spoils of war.” I cannot convey how very difficult this subject it …… TY💕 Well done! 36:34

[@TheMuseumGuide]

But none of these items were gifts?

[@YesItsMeGuys68]

You've done a great job explaining all this " touchy" business . Congrats !

[@TheMuseumGuide]

Thank you!

[@AlistairKiwi]

Did you ever go to the Egyptian Museum in the 90s? Not airconditioned & with shoddy cases. The guards would say to me, "do you want to touch the mummy? £10 (Egyptian)". Not now.

[@TheMuseumGuide]

Oh Yikes.

[@phlebgrl6064]

All countries including Great Britain took cultural artifacts as “spoils of war” and during colonialism. But how history has changed after the passage of time, I feel very strongly that artifacts should be returned to their country of origin. They don’t “belong” to England or the British Museum anymore if they were taken during war or through colonialism. Especially if the people it belongs to are asking for it back! How can you be so crass as to refuse?!

[@Markinthewoods]

But to whom should they be returned? If Turkey asks for Byzantine artefacts, why should they get them? They destroyed Byzantium. If South Africa asks for a diamond from the Crown Jewels, why should they get it? They "stole" the country from the indigenous San Bushmen, they are not the people who were there originally. Time moves on, populations move and countries change. The Greeks of today have a very large admixture of Turkish DNA from the time of the Ottoman Empire, are they still the same people whose ancestors created the marbles? The people of Italy now are very different from ancient times, after the invasions by Lombards etc. They fought and dispossessed the people who created many of the artefacts. Who "owns" their creations?

[@fredericktarr8266]

At a fundamental level we claim ownership of objects by right of conquest. How does it benefit my group to give our booty away? If we give something away it should be from our own magnanimity towards a friendly neighbor, not from the surrender to endless resentful begging.

[@marcelahenderson514]

I absolutely loved your video and I am a subscriber now.

[@TheMuseumGuide]

Great to have you!

[@shellnet411]

I'm a die hard nuance person I think we should come to an agreement that a certain Amount of copies should be made of the most important items like the Rosetta Stone and should be given all over the world. The originals belong in there original home. We can make such detailed copies with laser scanning that we can actually handle the copies and study them as if it was the original with modern technology we need to give back the originals and we still can have people able to study them all over the world without having to go to the object and we can make museums by using copy technology that you can actually handle the exhibits as long as modern technology can make things more accessible. The world heritage works, but that's why we should have a copy if they can't make it in the original it should be on loan somewhere where they can do it and then take them back.

[@tropicalfoodgarden3668]

Just my 5 cents - I'd have zero interest in seeing a copy. I've seen the real Rosetta Stone dozens of times, but the last time we were at the BM it was a copy. The original was on tour. Meh! The original has magic. I'm lucky, I can travel freely, I've visited the old Cairo museum several times and I'll be at the new one as soon as it opens. But not many people can, and London is more accessible to more of the global population, plus the museum is free. Most of the other artefacts in this video I don't care. Some, like the shield, are so insignificant and small that they're lost in that gallery, I've never noticed the shield and we visited almost every weekend with the kids. But that one I think belongs in London, or on tour sometimes. It's an important part of world history, maybe more than Egyptian.

[@HeavenEarthFloral9]

Thank you for your effort. The Parthenon is THE most important building ever constructed. It is the benchmark for architectural creations around the world. The structure itself is designed with extreme precision, not one column is the same as the one next to it. The Parthenon Marbles should be returned, this dignity must happen.

[@TheMuseumGuide]

I agree wholeheartedly. Thank you for watching!

[@yootube6522]

One point about looted art brought up in the book "Chasing Aphrodite: The Hunt for Looted Antiquities at the World's Richest Museum" is that not only is the artwork stolen from the original culture, but so is the revenue generated by the artwork--for example, all the money the British Museum makes off the Rosetta Stone, or the fees paid when items are "on loan" (which is often more like a rental). And if a museum is concerned that a country can't properly house or care for an artwork, they should help them figure out how to do that as part of the process of repatriation....if they actually care about the preservation of the art, that is. It's clear that the BM cares more about the revenue, prestige, and power it garners by keeping looted objects, rather than any true spirit of art or preservation of "world culture."

[@globalcitizen1138]

True! If they couldn't make money off of it, the art would have been thrown out on the dirty streets long ago. A people without a history.

[@wor53lg50]

​@@globalcitizen1138are you for real?, or just a mental fukin retard, get on yer cow gupta and jog the fuk on...

[@ems4884]

I have to tell you something that will disappoint you. Artefacts and museums really are not that profitable. There's a reason why they have some of the lowest salaries relative to the qualifications of their staff. I always chuckle when people start talking about museums "making money" from this or that major artefact or artwork. Oh no. You had no idea. The costs of conservation, research and museum operation are much too high for anything like that. There might be some "revenue lost" when it comes to tourism but ... Well, just think a little bit more about that. The vast majority of tourists don't travel to see ONE object. They go someplace for an entire host of experiences - most of which are not in museums anyways. A nation would need to have lost a very sizable percentage of it's heritage objects for an effect to be had, don't you think? The effect would be proportional to the size of the nation, it's population and economy. Also, keep in mind, regardless of "looting" (in the expanded definition you're using, which is totally fine), most loss of heritage comes from war, neglect and simply the ravages of time itself. But to your original point, all the money you're thinking about changing hands inside museums themselves? It's a wash. I don't know the book you mention or if it's serious scholarship of any kind. Perhaps I'll take a look at it to properly evaluate her claims. But from your summary, I have to confess that my expectations are very low indeed. Just some food for thought.

[@eleanorlaurent2303]

I'm so glad KZbin suggested one of your videos to me, I am enjoying your channel so much! This is the third or fourth video I've watched, I think, and I have learned heaps and am having so much fun 🩷

[@TheMuseumGuide]

Yay! Thank you!

[@esthersantiago7152]

I always look forward to your videos. This is a great video, a controversial topice that he have to talk about. Thanks you for bringing your professional expertise to the matter. Looking forward to more videos.

[@TheMuseumGuide]

Thank you for your kind words. :)

[@teresamr]

Just found your channel, thanks so much for this video! Here in Connecticut USA there have been, and continue to be, related issues in volving Yale University's museums.

[@TheMuseumGuide]

Museums around the world face these ethical challenges- I’d love to visit Yale’s Museums!

[@jerryvr]

I agree with you about the repatriation of the artifacts, a good copy will suffice for display purposes..

[@TheMuseumGuide]

Thank you - it just feels right.

[@Magical-Ixalan]

“Fall of Civilizations” covers too with great sensitivity, along with; The Nabataeans-The Final Days Of Petra and their tragic demise.

[@TheMuseumGuide]

I’ll have to check it out!

[@francineb7340]

100% amazing podcast and KZbin channel! Paul Cooper created such a beautiful piece!

[@spiderlily2360]

Thank you for enlightening us to ideas we may not have previously considered.

[@TheMuseumGuide]

Glad it was helpful!

[@beckymatthews3496]

Thank you 💗

[@TheMuseumGuide]

You’re very welcome!

[@jhfdhgvnbjm75]

IMO: 1} Hoa Hakananai'a: Most probably stolen and should be returned, especially given the generous offer to carve a replacement. 2} Gweagal Sheild: The claim holds little merit as it doesn't even appear to be the actual shield (that is certainly not a hole caused by a lead bullet, it should be much larger), there isn't a very strong argument that it should be sent to Australia. 3} Rosetta Stone: Arguably more culturally significant to Europe for its translational history than to Egypt for it ancient historic value, had clearly been abandoned and forgotten the by Egyptians, its hard to make a case for sending it to Egypt given whilst it is the first it is not unique. 4} Benin Bronzes: Certainly looted, though the issue is complicated by the counter claim that they were the product of slavery (If I remember they are actually made from British coins?) where they should go is disputed. 5} Eglin Marbles: They may/may not have been acquired legitimately, but the argument of that feels somewhat irrelevant, given their singular cultural significance to the Greeks it would only be appropriate to return them to Greece. My two pence worth anyway.

[@emilybenton6890]

By your argument for the Rosetta Stone, shouldn’t it be sent to France or Europe then?

[@Thejohnjackjoe]

GIVE IT BACK. THE END!!!

[@TheMuseumGuide]

Did you watch the video?

[@Thejohnjackjoe]

I'm refering to the british museum...@@TheMuseumGuide

[@rionthemagnificent2971]

There's a museum near me that has a massive bull elephant skull from one of the circus acts That overwintered / rested at prior to circus season.. His name was "Big Charley". The story goes: Peru, at the turn of the century, was the winter headquarters for a number of circuses. One of these was the LaPearl Circus, and one of its elephants was a bull named Big Charley. Big Charley was regarded with suspicion by the circus folk. The only human who had a rapport with him was Henry Huffman, his trainer. This arrangement worked well until April, 1901, when Henry was laid up in bed for three weeks. Charley had no one to take him down to the Wabash River for his usual bath. Big Charley got mad. On April 25, 1901, when Henry reappeared, Big Charley let himself be led to the riverbank. Then he grabbed Henry, dashed his brains out against a log dock, and held him under water until he was sure he was dead. Big Charley followed Henry shortly thereafter, a victim of several well-placed bullets. The Miami County Museum honors Big Charley by displaying his tusks, along with the skull of another elephant that has a bullet hole in it. "But we put 'em together," the curator explained. "For the school kids." All other Big Charley relics vanished in the great flood of 1913. *taken from RoadsideAmerica . com, though i added "great" before flood of 1913, as it caused a lot of destruction to homes and towns alongside the wabash and eel rivers. And several dams were built afterwards to maker sure a flood like that doesn't happen again.*

[@TheMuseumGuide]

Poor Big Charley! I did listen to a podcast recently that some elephants can actually just be “bad” and like causing violence. 🤔

[@liamcollinson5695]

One problem outside of the moral side of the argument is objects that was stolen but not put on show can be treated really bad my town once had a Egyptian mummy that was transported by convertible to the museum as a example

[@TheMuseumGuide]

That’s terrible, but pretty funny to picture!

[@joellenmeek658]

After visiting the wonderful Acropolis Museum I can’t understand how UK won’t return the wonderful Greek Marbles.

[@TheMuseumGuide]

My personal prediction is that half of the frieze will go to Athens on a “long-term loan.” I think this will happen with 5 years. Thank you for watching!

[@Loralanthalas]

Will I still be able to go see them? Or will they become just another ticket to be sold? I'm from the US: where we can only see rich man's treasure by paying to see them. So most dont. Most just become Kardashian fans and worship plastic surgery. It's one of the things I adored about arriving in the UK. -- actually being able to see things I grew up seeing whe Discovery Channel and History Channel still had scince and history and we were dirt poor: literally Ramen or spaghetti every night. Actually worried about how much toilet paper was being used poor. My mother NEVER scraped up the miney. If I followed her I'd beleive the earth was 5,000 and Jesus WAS actually a white dude. If I'd been born in the UK I'd have some belief that even poor people could have access to things only University people went to. Instead, I went to work.

[@michaelwhite8031]

Make some casts of the Elgin marble's and send the originals back. If the British are so bad why does half the world want to come here. I am proud to be English.

[@TheMuseumGuide]

I don’t think anyone said the British are so bad, but we definitely need to address our colonial holdings. That’s why this is all so nuanced.

[@andrewlove3686]

Because white people in general not just British are held to some impossible, perfect, God like entity standard while non whites as long as their not actively murdering and cannibalizing someone right in front of you are "good boys". It's a crazy racist and extremely dangerous to white people and their children double standard. It's evil. You're right white people are so bad everyone's raping and murdering each other to come live with us to such an extent It's literally genocide.

[@DerekDerekDerekDerekDerekDerek]

​@@TheMuseumGuidenah

[@jessicaoneill1981]

@@DerekDerekDerekDerekDerekDerek it’s not nuanced?

[@sTraYa249]

Wow....I lived just near La Perouse as a kid.

[@lilpenny1982]

Underrated subject matter 👍 Good discussion

[@TheMuseumGuide]

Thank you!

[@susanharris5926]

I think repatriation is fine if you are sure of where they are going, how they will be preserved, and who would be able to see them. In the case of ancestor worship, they should go back no matter what. But my objections rest on artifacts that would fall into the hands of the Taliban if they were repatriated. Nothing would persuade me of their safety in the hands of the Taliban and who in the world would go to Afghanistan to see them? In short, I don't think there is a blanket answer to this question.

[@TheMuseumGuide]

I can see your point, but why is it up to the British (or Germans, or Americans) to decide if a community can care for their own objects? And does it matter if you or I can’t travel to Afghanistan to see Afghani objects?

[@susanharris5926]

@@TheMuseumGuide The whole world has seen what the Taliban does with revered artifacts, that is when they blew up the statues a few years ago. It's up to those transferring the objects to ensure they will be cared for and the facilities are there for that care so that they will be preserved. This is another matter entirely from emotional investment of a community in the objects. Because these objects are being preserved for the global community as you like to point out, it does matter if I can't or wouldn't go to Afghanistan to see them. The question is do you think these things belong just to the communities that created them, or to humanity as a whole as an example of what we have created. One thing I think of is providing the technology to these countries for people to virtually view them, just as you are doing. I can go to the Tyrell Museum in Canada virtually and view dinosaur fossils just as well as if I went to the museum.

[@robertafierro5592]

All stolen, yes!

[@TheMuseumGuide]

Did you watch the video, Roberta?

[@DerekDerekDerekDerekDerekDerek]

False! Yes!

[@Chellebelle121]

That was fantastic and illuminating. Thank you!

[@TheMuseumGuide]

You're so welcome!

[@jaredcampbell]

Thank you for the amazing video!!

[@TheMuseumGuide]

You’re very welcome! Thanks for watching.

[@Loralanthalas]

Keeping otems SAFE and FREE FOR ALL TO SEE should be tje top priority for ALL artifacts. -- why do these people not care about all the personal collections of rich men?

[@TheMuseumGuide]

Those are certainly all words!

[@emilybenton6890]

@@TheMuseumGuidetop tier reply

[@urbannsquirrel]

The story of the Rapa Nui running after their statue and sobbing as it was carted away is so heartbreaking. How can that be construed in any way as okay? The fact that the BM could have an exact replica made and still choose to keep the original is greedy and unethical, imo.

[@TheMuseumGuide]

I agree that this one is pretty cut and dry.

[@CLEFT3000]

Anything that’s from Australia or any other relatively stable country should clearly be returned without question. The others are difficult and need to be considered. Also because items are uncontested doesn’t mean there aren’t people who want them back. There are many unheard voices.

[@TheMuseumGuide]

I definitely see what you're saying, but I just wonder who gets to determine "stability." I agree about the unheard voices, but for repatriation claims to be addressed, someone does need to file the requests. If no requests have been filed, it is impossible to know what is contested.

[@StephanieElizabethMann]

Thank you for your well presented discussion on these collected antiqueties. There are so many rabbit holes to dive into on this subject they would look like the infinite rooms of the infinite hotel. I think there is argument for a world collective ownership. But where should these pieces be kept geographically is a question of ownership of particular items. Would they be safe anywhere? If they did not survive where they were made isn't that the history of the objects and the people (country) that own them. Many great objects have been lost that we know of and many that we do not know of are also lost. In the end they are things.

[@TheMuseumGuide]

I really think we have to defer to the original owners. Our concept of “heritage” and world culture is relatively new and not shared by every culture.

[@massimosquecco8956]

In my opinion, the Rosetta stone should stay where it is for the historical value it holds. Without its text, there would be no Egyptology studies as we know, but what concerns me the most is the bubble standards these KMT activists hold: home many people know there are other Tolemaic bilingual stelae? How much effort do they make to spread this knowledge? I know that 1 of them is even in better condition than the Rosetta case, just because I've seen a picture, but if you ask me where it is, my answer is I don't know. I know even less about the other specimens. At this point, I wonder: Is the Iconic status of this thing that concerns the Egyptians, or the scientific and educational value of it? For me, a Museum is above all an organism of research, study, and education. Just as second place comes its entertainment function, because it will never lose its attraction- fair function, and why should lose it anyway. Don't let me start with the 2011 Egyptian revolution, The burnt Islamic Museum, and the presents Zahi allegedly gave to important American and Islamic politicians during his early years....

[@TheMuseumGuide]

I disagree with your first statement based on the idea there “would be no Egyptology studies as we know it.” Arabic scholars in 18th and 19th century Egypt were hard at work deciphering these objects, and they were often denied access to permits from the Ottomans and scholarship from the West.

[@massimosquecco8956]

@@TheMuseumGuide Well, so did Athanasius Kirchner, without much success., so: what does it mean? Besides, sadly, your response holds already the answer to this contentious and the point remains political bigots masked as Religious Dogma. Thank you for your answer. I m a Huge-huge fan of your videos, and this is why it is an honor to hear from you.

[@petergriffin2799]

thieves

[@TheMuseumGuide]

Did you watch the video?

[@nostaligia4021]

A thoughtful examination of the title subject 👍

[@TheMuseumGuide]

Thank you so much. :)

[@Markinthewoods]

It would have been interesting to have heard more about the Benin Bronzes to help contextualise them. For instance, how the brass used to make them was acquired by the sale of slaves. Also, the way in which the slaves were treated. The records of the time tell the gruesome story, such as how the expedition found hundreds of dead and dying slaves, some beheaded, crucified or disembowelled. The bronzes themselves were covered in blood from the dying slaves. As you might imagine, the descendants of the slaves feel they should own them, since it was their ancestors who were sold into slavery in order to get the metal to make them, rather then returning them to the Nigerians who enslaved them and then sold them on. That is an interesting and compelling angle to the story.

[@TheMuseumGuide]

I did include the claims by descendants of enslaved people in America - did you see that part of the video?

[@Markinthewoods]

I must have missed that part. I'll watch again. I made a comment below to another respondent about how complex these claims are. Frequently the current inhabitants of an area are not related to the people who created them. Indeed, as in the case of the Bantu migration into southern Africa, actively killed and displaced the people who did create existing artefacts. In what way can they be said to "own" them?

[@konstantinavalentina3850]

I'm a little flippy floppy about item repatriation. For instance, ISIS exploded those really important giant Buddhas and a seriously significant number of other archaeological sites, including the looting of museums and destruction of artifacts. We've also not too long ago seen some museum fires in South America that destroyed priceless historical artifacts. We have all the looting and destruction that happened during WWII and other conflicts effecting museums and historical sites. As such, I have a firm foot in the camp that wants artifacts and history spread far and wide all over the world so it can't be destroyed by idiots. As to repatriation ... I think if there is and can be overwhelming documentation and even copies made of some or many things, some should certainly see repatriation ... but, much of that also depends on the stability of where the objects come from because why send something somewhere a bunch of filthy religious fanatics are just going to destroy it? We currently have many Scythian artifacts evacuated from Ukraine to safer places against destruction and/or looting by Russian invaders, and, then, we also have many artifacts already stolen by Russia, including the so-called "treasure of Priam" looted and taken to Moscow during WWII. Anyway, that's my position.

[@TheMuseumGuide]

It’s ok to be nuanced and have a different opinion for each object! Just remember that the fire in Rio could have easily happened elsewhere, and the Taliban examples are extremely rare.

[@gabriellebernard198]

As long as they are in the british museum they are safe.

[@TheMuseumGuide]

Did you watch the section on the Parthenon Sculptures? They’ve been damaged by acid, broken by children, targeted by bombs, and leaked on by a faulty roof (last year!) while here at the BM. The BM’s museum technology pales in comparison to the Acropolis Museum in Greece, and that’s just one example.

[@susanjane4784]

Thank you.

[@TheMuseumGuide]

You’re very welcome!

[@annemarierowe6967]

Just found this site. You have an excellent narritive voice

[@TheMuseumGuide]

Thank you so much!

[@risk5riskmks93]

Okay, but what if every country could only display its own pieces? Most people cannot travel the world. An accumulation of worldwide art that already exists, allows visitors to a major city the chance to learn about cultures other than our own. Obviously now we do that through buying, not stealing, but a this point, returning everything to its country of origin just isn’t possible, and would result in the art being seen less.

[@TheMuseumGuide]

If a country can’t afford to display its own pieces, it’s unlikely they would request repatriation. That would also be rare, as most countries budget specifically for their national museums. As for the world not being able to see objects in a major city, I think the people who the objects belong to wouldn’t really care if you and I see them. They’ve given us enough. Let’s also remember that this really refers only to a small fraction of items in any museum. We in the West are at no risk of not being able to see the world’s antiquities. I did address this extensively in the sections on “World Culture.”

[@lillia5333]

How many in the countries of origin can travel to the museums of the world to see their own heritage?

[@DerekDerekDerekDerekDerekDerek]

​@@lillia5333in the country of origin

[@Arcadian-Nova]

if art is being seen less because of repatriation than that is on active part of parties involved, either the goverments, the museums, or the people themselves. in todays age is so easy to see so much. and sooooooooooooooooooo many museums are proud of what they have that they love to show it off. i mean look at covid, museums around the world were quick to make sure to make online exploreable versions of their collection or even their entire museums. museums will find a way to get their collections seen, and museums work with other museums so reparations doesnt mean it will never go on loan for a special exhibition somewhere else. i dont have the budget to travel the world but ive already seen quite a bit. the internet is at our finger tips, museums are using online tools more and more, so like i said in order for art to seen less..... someone had to make sure it would be seen less.

[@plsnthxu]

thank you for sharing!

[@TheMuseumGuide]

My pleasure!

[@cruisepaige]

Fantastic job!!!!

[@TheMuseumGuide]

Thank you! Cheers!

[@TVDandTrueBlood]

I think the idea of *national culture* is very important to this topic too, and should be investigated more closely. You have this guy telling stories about that shield belonging to his family, yet he doesn't ask for it to be returned to his family, but asks for it to be repatriated to "an Australian museum". This is just being taken as natural by you, without comment, minutes after you question the idea of "world culture". I think it is extremely interesting which 19th century cultural ideas we do accept a priori, versus which we do not.

[@TheMuseumGuide]

I guess the difference is the consent of the person it belongs to.

[@lineudpaula]

You are now my favorite KZbinr

[@TheMuseumGuide]

Thank you so much!

[@amandacollecutt2491]

best thing ive seen for a while thank you

[@TheMuseumGuide]

Thank you!

[@Tomdabomb86]

Great watch, great work

[@TheMuseumGuide]

Thank you!

[@Thenogomogo-zo3un]

Those Benin bronzes once sent to Nigeria probably wont be seen again The Hornimans museum is near Forest Hill South London. In case you are interested. Nowhere near the British museum in Central London, just so you dont get lost

[@TheMuseumGuide]

Thanks- I’ve been to the Horniman many times to see their merman. :)

[@jenzerr8856]

The artifact I think of most often is moctezumas “ head dress” in Vienna. I’ve seen the reproduction in Mexico City. Which is BEAUTIFUL. I hate to think about how the one in Vienna has deteriorated so bad and can’t make the trip home. 😕

[@TheMuseumGuide]

Wow, I didn’t know about this! I’d love to see it.

[@lauraweiss7875]

It appears that the “Moai” in the US are all casts or replicas. BTW - I live in Elgin, IL, and I want my marbles back. 😂

[@TheMuseumGuide]

Ohhhh, that’s so good to know!

[@katarinajanoskova]

Thank you for your videos! This one is great as always. It's a complicated subject but with stolen things this should not even be a question. I wonder if things that were sold or 'gifted' by people who should not have been gifting or selling their national treasures should be returned. After all, few hundred years ago, most people did not care (probably had no idea about) such objects as are now in museums, but now they do. I don't think there are any easy answers.

[@TheMuseumGuide]

Well said! There really aren’t any easy answers. Thank you for watching.

[@Name-ot3xw]

I'll agree that every item taken under colonialism could be rightfully considered stolen. IIRC, legend has it that when they took the Moai they asked the locals what they called it, and the name they gave translates roughly to "missing brother". For reference on how the contemporaries felt about the theft.

[@TheMuseumGuide]

He just breaks my heart.