The most DISGUSTING game I have EVER PLAYED | Rachel Foster Review

[@MertKayKay]

NOTE: I mention towards the end of this video that I was surprised a woman wrote it because they were called "Daniele" - turns out it's the Italian spelling of Daniel and they're actually male. Sorry for any confusion. Hi all! So, just a quick note if you’re looking to comment. When I made this video, I had

[@ruthie_rosario]

No one is perfect and it’s great that you learned from it. I do stutter and slur my words terribly (and what a coincidence, I have dyslexia as well), but I did not find this offensive. Intentions are what matter, and I do not believe you used the term “disabled” (even though dyslexia is technically classified as a disability) as a slur. You were merely making harmless observations. We can’t please everybody, but at least you tried to correct any possible offensive commentary. I thoroughly enjoyed your video. ☺️

[@MertKayKay]

Aww thank you Ruthie! I do really appreciate it.

[@quwynnx3652]

I just want to say that first of all, this video is amazingly made and I would not have expected it for an audience of less then 100 and gives me great interest into other videos of yours! You have such amazing insight into this game and the research you have put into related topics. Second of all, I'm glad that you are so open to suggestions and even criticism and take it so well. You obviously care about your audience and it really makes me want to look more into your creations knowing that it's well made with viewers like me in mind but still to your personal standards. All in all, I'm only half way through and this video is already so amazingly made. I will definitely be watching other videos by you once I finish this and hope for the best for you and this channel!

[@VinceWhitacre]

I can't imagine the sorts of missteps I would make if I thought I were speaking to a small audience, but then my presentation blew up. Ok, so some things could have been said better. I'm a middle-aged white guy - lord knows I have said some things in my life I wish I could have a do-over on. What's important is your desire to keep learning and keep growing; and to do so in a respectful and inclusive manner. KZbin recommended this video to me out of nowhere - apparently that's how a lot of viewers are finding it. For someone who thought they were making an essay with a fairly minor reach, you've done a hell of a job here. You've done a hell of a job for anyone. I don't know how many more of your videos I'll watch if they're primarily game reviews, I'm not a gamer - like I said, YT recommended this out of nowhere. But I clicked thinking I'd put it on in the background while I looked for something I wanted to watch more, and stayed for the whole hour. Not sure there's much higher praise I can give about how well put together this video was. Good luck with your channel. It really looks like you're made for this medium. Well done.

[@MertKayKay]

@@VinceWhitacre Wow Vince, I've never received such a thoughtful comment. Thank you! I absolutely loved making this video and the feedback on it has been super useful. Mainly about my language, I'm a lil crass, but like you said - we work on it :D

[@miatratzinski5188]

not now babe, a random youtuber just posted an hour long video essay about something i’ve never heard of

[@fedethegreat88]

Real

[@Gay_frog4]

Fr

[@thesamprogramme2077]

Yeah exactly

[@dappledthedemoniccrow2553]

Real

[@scooblopgarbles7619]

lol

[@katem.3677]

The whole "she's so mature for her age" is literally Groomer Talk 101.

[@olgagaming5544]

its pretty cool, i wish my daddy would say something like that to me if I ever had one

[@taxisalad]

@@olgagaming5544 log off, you're too young to interact with older individuals

[@nyancat.123]

@@olgagaming5544 pov: under the age of 12

[@Immolator772]

I'll never understand one thing though, how come in some countries where age of consent is 13, but in other country the age of consent is 18. What, in one country you'll be a pedophile while in the other not? I'm not supporting pedos, i just don't get this.

[@taxisalad]

@@Immolator772 it's a mixture of cultural differences and not understanding how children's minds work. Like, in European countries, it USED to be normal to have your daughter married and give birth by age 14, but as time progressed and we grew more aware of basic psychology, that was quickly changed.

[@okiagari]

"A man who understands space-time better than he understands consent." what a line.

[@doindaworst5824]

Oof

[@ferdinandroig3460]

There he is. Reddit Man.

[@Sorcerers_Apprentice]

​@@ferdinandroig3460 I think you mean 4chan man

[@lilygirllisa]

@@Sorcerers_Apprentice Both

[@Bustermachine]

From this I deduce that the person owns a watch and might, once, have looked up at the night sky.

[@BaneHydra]

This game feels like if someone first played What Remains of Edith Finch, then watched Lolita and then huffed lead paint for 7 hours straight before sitting down and making a game

[@tsukishiamaterchicuddlebun4186]

Even someone like that could make a better game, it's like these people heard a synopsis of "What Remains of Edith Finch", didn't fact check it at all.

[@McNahidas]

off topic what remains of edith finch was such a good game

[@tsukishiamaterchicuddlebun4186]

@@McNahidas I completely agreed.

[@ellebarron7112]

Edith Finch is such a good game omg. Everyone play that instead❤

[@katherinemacias5358]

While also trying to integrate the hotel from the shining

[@elizabethperry2622]

If I remember correctly Humbert doesn’t meet Dolores again “decades and decades” later. She’s barely 18, married, pregnant and desperately broke. She’s in such bad shape she is actually reaching back out to her abuser, and he doesn’t find her attractive anymore--as a girl in her late teens. It’s all levels of messed up.

[@dvrbjrvr3148]

u do not remember correctly..

[@babytoshiro7014]

@@dvrbjrvr3148 So she was wrong?

[@astrobees]

@@babytoshiro7014 No, she’s correct. Dolores reached back out to Humbert when she was 17 to ask for money because she was pregnant and impoverished. Humbert is no longer attracted to her because she’s “too old” for him (she was 12 when he abused her). She later dies in childbirth, as does her baby girl.

[@babytoshiro7014]

@@astrobees Thank you. Such a sad story, I hope that guy burns in hell

[@its_a_poncho]

@@dvrbjrvr3148 I don't know if its a language barrier, but "If I remember correctly", is an expression/transitional phrase. Its used when someone remembers something correctly, same with "If I recall" or "If my memory serves me right".

[@Wonderoddity]

This game could’ve been so good…like have it be a big heartbreaking reveal that the “woman” The father cheated with was a child. We experience the pov of the main character as they learn that their father was a monster. Boom, that’s it-that’s the horror. Ghosts aren’t necessary. The game could end with the main character visiting the grave of the young girl. I mean they didn’t even try.

[@user-re8tc1dg3b]

Oh they tried alright. Just not in a way that mentaly stable individuals do.

[@system_ai9248]

​@@user-re8tc1dg3b That's an insult to mentally unstable people... there is no excuse that covers up the sheer evil and stupidity in the writer's beliefs, I really hope they never get close to any child

[@Ellisepha]

They could even leave in all the stuff of Nicole idolizing her dad. Maybe she herself was roughly Rachel's age when the suicide happened and detested her for "ruining her family". If the writers want to go for shocks then that'd hit even harder.

[@SsnakeBite]

Yeah, there's great potential in a story about coming to terms with realizing that someone you love and admire did something so horrible, and dealing with reconciling your feelings between your pleasant memories of the person and the awful truth of what they did. But instead of that, this game seems to just try and justify abuse and glorify the abuser while demonizing those who criticized him.

[@troin3925]

That’s exactly what I’ve been saying! Nicole idolizes her father and if the game was written like this, it could be a shocking twist for not just the player, but Nicole as well. Speaking of ghosts, that doesn’t go anywhere. It was handled in a legitimately creepy way and made me wish it was a horror game, especially with the sound design and lack of music (it kind of reminds me of how Gone Home made it seem like a horror game at first but wasn’t). Even though the game tries to make us believe that the paranormal activity was faked, we’ve seen multiple stuff that’s very hard to fake. I have a similar issue with the mysterious caller who said “Rachel is still there, don’t sell the hotel. Don’t do anything stupid.” Even though the caller was mentioned multiple times later as part of a red herring, it goes nowhere and we don’t know who the fuck that was or his deal. Are we supposed to shrug him off as a prank caller or something, why does he also say “don’t do anything stupid” in such a serious and irritated tone? Imagine if in Firewatch, we never find out who the mysterious man stalking you is or his motivation (even though the caller didn’t do anything else, that’s the best comparison I can come up with). Stuff like this makes me believe that the game’s story was a rough draft and I’m really baffled. It has such a great setting, visuals and creepy sound design and I was really invested in the ghost story.

[@fantage20012]

Jesus the idea of using the victim's brother as a mouthpiece to justify the father's actions is just so gross.

[@victormagoco9752]

My sister is 15 and the idea of her ever being abused is already nauseating enough, so I would rather lose an arm than defend her abuser like this scum did, honestly, all the speaking characters in this game are sick in the head

[@idiotoninternet]

God yeah it’s foul, I thought he was going to be the opposite of what he was

[@0_isha_041]

I honestly thought that the reason the brother was defending Nicole's father was because he was also groomed. As in, Rachel was groomed into being in a relationship with the pedophile and that same pedophile groomed Ervin into thinking that their relationship was okay and normal and even up to adulthood he believed it was and that's why he was defending him. But no I was wrong. "Their love was beautiful" sure I guess.

[@ihatemickiegee]

right!? I expcted once I heard it was her brother that he was gonna say he'd been entertaining nicole's jabbering on about him just to get more info on his side when really, it clarified he's an evil bastard who preyed on his sister. especially after that fking shrine bedroom- how could that be mistaken for anything other than p*dophilic???? NO brother in any fictional or real universe would have said what irving did. it concerns me for what kind of person the writer of this story was. hopefully just an ignorant cock and not with any personal similarities to leonard...

[@PR0MAN01]

Yeah I thought the brothers motivation would be "your family ruined my sister. Now you have to face what your dad did" but no instead he's like "whyd your mom have to be such a bitch and kill my little sister for falling in love". Disgusting

[@howardkoslov1702]

I genuinely thought this was building to Nicole’s breakdown as she realized her father had groomed her too, but no, it was just an ad for degeneracy.

[@sillymanmcgee]

“ad for degeneracy” is a phrase im adding to my vocabulary!

[@wsg_p1u7o]

that would’ve been so good actually, they fumbled HARD

[@SheepyT1me]

When her dad said "I love you Rachel" during the dream sequence I thought that she was the replacement for his affection after Rachel died.

[@GippyHappy]

I love your profile pic, look at that little melon man go

[@twit3537]

​@@SheepyT1meI thought that nicole was actually racheal and the real nicole was killed by the farher so it would be easier to groom Racheal further by isolating h3r and messing with her memories but the mom took her away to protect h3r (ehen she couldnt protect her daughter) from the perfectionist pastor father and the grooming abuser

[@kirby_rising]

"Two adults took a defenseless child and ripped her to pieces." Thank you for calling it what it is and stating it so plainly that it cannot be misconstrued.

[@Melissa31179]

Average Saturday

[@mr._the7651]

Just one of those days amIright

[@sovietlps]

@@mr._the7651is there something wrong with you

[@mr._the7651]

@sovietlps doin a bit, like the comment above me.

[@sovietlps]

@@mr._the7651 ur still freakish

[@tess2241]

i like how nicole states that “rachel must have had a reason for her suicide” AS IF YEAR LONG ISOLATION IN A HOTEL WITH A PREDATOR ISNT A REASON?!?

[@ahstiasummers5583]

Nicole had a case of "reality doesn't fit my predetermined idea and therefore the reasoning, which is punching me in the face and beating me over the head with a steel bat, is invalid"

[@my23bear]

Oh wow, "i like how". How creative and unique.

[@Cyndaqueer]

@@my23bear “oh wow” how creative

[@my23bear]

@@Cyndaqueer "how ______" ZOMG SUCH A NOVEL CONSEPT!!!!!!!

[@wesleythomas7125]

@@my23bear Such wow! Much I Like How! Many original!

[@dune3001]

This whole game is the personification of the sentence "But Lolita seduced him!" that so many people use, specifically those who totally missed the point of that book.

[@leadpaintchips9461]

Wait, people actually say that about that book?!? She was FUCKING 12.

[@dune3001]

@@leadpaintchips9461 Yeah, there was a discussion like this when we did the book in high school, a lot of people took for real the way the narrator talks about a literal child

[@leadpaintchips9461]

@@dune3001 Even in high school, I don't think anyone that I knew was ok with a senior going out with a 6th grader, and this man was old enough to be a grandpa to those seniors.

[@dune3001]

@@leadpaintchips9461 You live in a more normal place than me, then. It is very sad, and even sadder is that we actually have criminal cases involving 12-14 year olds in which the judged decided against the statutory rape accusations, because they "knw what they were doing"...

[@leadpaintchips9461]

@@dune3001 What the actual fuck... They can only be charged as an adult when it comes to extreme crimes, but as victims they're treated as adults? Wherever you live, that's a terrible place no offense towards you. Yes, around that age our bodies start shifting towards, and we become interested in, babymaking. Which means we should be a bit more lenient with _children_ around that age. But full on adults taking advantage of them? No mercy.

[@xenvid]

Young consent ages (13-16) are so teenagers in a relationship can consent to EACH OTHER, not full grown adults. It baffles me how people are like "oh but the age of consent is-" shut up.

[@QemeH]

That’s exactly why we have „staggered“ consent ages in Germany. The age of consent is 16 for partners of people 21 and under, and then 18 for partners of people over 21. Plus, even over the age of consent a sexual relationship can still be illegal if there is a power dynamic involved (we call it „Schutzbefohlene“, which means people entrusted to your care or protection, e.g. patient/nurse, teacher/student, boss/employee, mentors of rehab programs/people in rehab, etc.).

[@4iu89a7]

Go off vibes instead of the law lol

[@A_Wild_Yeengirl]

​@@4iu89a7uhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh

[@A_Wild_Yeengirl]

​@@QemeHbruh

[@requiemagent3014]

​@@QemeHI love how this is wrong. Like completely wrong. Did you read the law and wrote the exact opposite down? Let me explain to you how the age of consent works in Germany. Age of consent is 14 in Germany if the other party is 21 years or OLDER. Not the other way around. If you are under 21 it's basically a free for all. I know this because there was a pretty polarizing case back in like 2012. I think. It has been a long time since I read up on it. A teacher was dating a 14 year female student who was at the same school as him. Not in his class. That is very important. They were dating for six months with the entire package. You know what I mean with that. The parents found out and sued the teacher. The court decided because they were dating for such a long period of time it must have been consensual and the girl apperently never spoke negatively about it. The last part is speculation because I couldn't find any statements from the girl. Just the conclusion of the judge. The teacher walked away as a free men. Even teaching at the same school because she wasn't in his class. Absolutely no laws were broken in this. So again where did you get this from? It's basically the exact opposite how it works in Germany. Age of consent is shockingly low but gladly it's rare that it comes to cases like this

[@pilloeglade5463]

I was accepting of Nicole's deep denial until Irving broke down with his weird God and Virgin Mary comparison. At that moment I finally understood that this story about pedophilia was being romanticized.

[@60311]

Disgusting tbh

[@IrvingIV]

Hearing my username get tied to this disgusting bullshit infuriates me.

[@richardshiflett5181]

A pedo made it

[@igordog]

I haven't watched the video yet, but it's so odd. Somehow, I missed all of this. I think my subconscious just filled in the parts of the story where he should have been demonized all on it's own. I was just automatically degusted with him and it literally never occurred to me for a moment that he was intended to be sympathized with. I guess I just wasn't paying attention

[@igordog]

wow... sure as shit, this is a creepy ped story. yikes.

[@gabilabs9125]

"she wore a dress with a bow on the back" is a line that had potential that was ultimately wasted, especially with it coming after the claim that Rachel was mature for her age, as the idea of a dress with a bow on the back is one that can be associated with youth and a sort of childishness, like a Christmas dress a child would get and love because of the pretty bow. If done right, it would've shown how Rachel was a child who was groomed and abused (and arguably kidnapped) and juxtaposed the line before it, to show just how sick and twisted this "relationship" was and that the idea that she was older than her age was an excuse and further victimization of a girl who is already dead and gone.

[@Fosharie1445]

It could have been great! Like you hear the like and imagine this sleek, mature dress (probably in a dark tone) and then when you enter her room or you see a picture she’s wearing like a child’s party dress. Like a cute, maybe frilly white dress with an oversized bow on the back in like a pink or pastel tone. And then you have that moment of horror in your gut as you realise that oh, Rachel was 100% still a child. Not a mature for her age, acting up, young woman. But a child. And it would have been great if this was like the straw that break’s Nicole’s bavk. Like she holds the dress and was like “I-I had a dress like this when I was a kid… I wore it to my 14th birthday!” And the scales fall from her eyes. She can’t make excuses anymore because the proof is right in front of her. In the form of a childish, small dress

[@Cheetahgirl_Studios]

@@Fosharie1445 To be honest... I wanted Nicole to lash out at her dad. Just look at how much disgusting stuff he’s done. I wanted her to cry. I wanted her to yell into the halls of the empty hotel, demanding to know why her dad would destroy a child the way he did. She doesn’t care about her family anymore. She doesn’t care about her father. The love we saw in the beginning is gone. I wanted Nicole to finally realise that her father wasn’t taken from her family by some vixen. He broke their family by his own accord. And Rachel was an innocent child who died for his behaviour. I would have no input from Irving in that scene. No other dialogue than Nicole finally, after so much denying and naysaying, realised that all this time she’s been defending a monster. And that she blamed a child for the consequences for his actions.

[@Fosharie1445]

@@Cheetahgirl_Studios that would have been so much better. So much more realistic. Like I’m really close to my parents but if I found out something like that, I’d drop them so fast. I’d be furious and hurt. It’s just not realistic and makes my skin crawl when you consider that people thought this story was a good idea to make. Like if it comes out that there’s some ‘suspicious’ activities going on with the developers then I won’t be surprised. Disgusted but no surprised. Like you’d have to be messed up to not put something like… Idk explain away why she might for whatever reason still see him as a good father. Not just because he was nice. Like maybe it could have alluded to him grooming her too and she’s like, disassociating from it all because she doesn’t want to remember what he did to her? Or just like, denial that was more vehement only to then be completely shattered and have her have a break down. Just… More. More emotion. More horror, not this weird romanticism of her gross dad and honestly pathetic mum. Like lady, kill your husband not the poor girl he’s assaulted and knocked up if you really have to kill someone!

[@ParsureArts]

Kind of unrelated, but- the dress with a bow on the back reminds me of something from The Giver. The young children wore clothes with buttons on the back, so they had to ask other kids or parents to help them dress. In the game, having a dress with a bow on the back makes it feel like the kidnapper wanted her to be dependent on him-

[@TheAnomaly00]

This _ENTIRE_ pile of rancid dogshit is wasted potential! When I first saw the setup I was like "Aw hell yeah! The Shining meets a mystery thriller? Sweet!" And then when she was in such blatant denial I was like "Oh shit, we got some Silent Hill in here too? Oh game you shouldn't have!" And then I kept waiting for the penny drop. For the Silent Hill 2 vhs scene. For the reveal that her phone was dead the whole time. And then the twist never came and this game straight up says that grooming and molestation are okay if it's "true love" Fuck this game, fuck these writers.

[@CoRLex-jh5vx]

This entire game can be summed up in one key sentence: "A girl died, NICOLE."

[@nicolemelo8994]

Oh shit

[@someguycalledCh0wdah]

@@nicolemelo8994 yeah it's not looking good for ya

[@wesleythomas7125]

@@nicolemelo8994 Hide!

[@pale4146]

@@nicolemelo8994 I agree with them all you better hide

[@rafaelcastor2089]

Isn't that just the first Dead Space?

[@ОльгаСергеева-з6х]

I feel like the dissonance in how they designed Rachel's room is meant to make her death more sad. Like the creator's go "Oh, you don't get it, it wasn't grooming because she was so mature", and then immediately turn around and go "Isn't it tragic that someone so young, basically a child, was murdered?" Whatever makes the dad look better and the mom look worse.

[@breakthecode4634]

I feel like they were trying to offer to many angles of perspective and just really dropped the ball

[@GippyHappy]

She both is and isn't an adult depending on what's convenient to the narrative. Schrödinger's Pedophile.

[@viepng]

No I don't think they were actually trying to justify it. The entire time, the MC is trying to justify what her mom and dad did and painted Rachel as the bad one but the whole point of the game is for the MC to come to know the crimes her parents committed and that Rachel was a victim the whole time. I mean we see the hidden room with all of the kids toys and furniture that the father had an extreme obsession with Rachel being a child.

[@fedethegreat88]

​@@viepngBut she never does admit his faults. In fact, she does the exact opposite: she kills herself to go back to her father so that they can be a "happy family" again with Rachel

[@alecynda]

​@@fedethegreat88 I mean she doesnt really have to... I think the game makes it pretty clear she is a flawed and kinda unreliable narrator, we do not need her opinion and the message of the game to align perfectly

[@orballo13]

It shocks me that a "dress with a bow in the back" is described as mature and elegant. When I picture a dress like that I immediately associate it to little girls, preteens maybe, but never with a mature woman. The fact that the writers made that association is disgusting and disturbing.

[@Hanfgurkenhasser]

Had it been written by competent people, one could have argued that this was supposed to raise suspicion as to Irvin's trustworthiness as a narrator/explanator and perhaps be one of many clues that lead up to a damning realisation for Nicole. Sadly this phrase is just to be taken at face value which is both lazy, stupid writing as well as hideously disgusting.

[@ninjabluefyre3815]

Maybe in the 1950s. Which I hate.

[@Oozaru85]

No. Its cute, not elegant or mature. So adult women dont like or wear cute things? Are they also not allowed to like pink, because only little girls like pink? Ur nuts.

[@D7STOPIAN]

​@@Oozaru85 How many women older than 13 have you seen wearing those uncomfortable puffy dresses with bows in the back? The ones with sewn in petticoats made of cheap tuile and itchy fabric? The ones sold in heaps at target, walmart, amazon, everywhere, especially during the holidays?

[@Oozaru85]

@@D7STOPIAN No one is wearing these things anymore. Not even kids. And a dress is just a dress. Hell, back in the 30's pink was a boys color. Does that mean girls shouldnt wear pink now? People can wear whatever they want. Your connotation or interpretation doesnt matter. Lots of women wear cute stuff which is very girly. They like dolls and cute stuffed animals. They have girly bedrooms with lots of pink and pastels in it. And lets not forget Dylan Mulvaney and his "360 days of girlhood". Go and call him a pedo. Or a groomer. I dare you.

[@caincosplays]

What’s most frustrating is that this could’ve been such a brilliant game, had she ‘snapped out of it’ at the end, broke down crying, realizing the monster her father is. Irving could’ve been a brilliant character, pushing her to understand and un program herself from her families grooming. And understand the child victim that was left no narrative. She could’ve realized the real reason her mother broke up with her father- not because he cheated, but because she couldn’t face the embarrassing reality a man she used to love, had a raging obsession with a little girl he isolated and raped. This story idea is brilliant, had it been done right. And instead it was written by a room full of perverts who wanted to justify their attraction to their kids friends.

[@mittag983]

Yeah it could have been so good if only women with good intentions did write it!

[@thunderclanliveson1]

It could've been brilliant if Nicole was slowly faced to come to terms with the fact that her father is a monster and yes, she could still look up to her father in the beginning, but it begins to crack and shatter as the days go by and she realizes that fuck, he wasn't as good as you thought he was when she was a kid, and that could've been you, and it makes her fucking sick.

[@alexpittheliker9165]

I actually like the part where Nicole is denying Rachel's suicide is caused by her father by being a dunce just so she could continue putting her dad as a "Philosopher and a good man.". She is denying that why would her own father, the one she respected her entire life and loved one would do such a horrible thing. We had been there before, where we would defend our idols no matter what but as efficient evidences comes out, we soon become realize that our idol is a human and a human who did a crime. The game should go to the route where all the evidences are literally thrown at Nicole's face to the point that idolizing her own father disgusts her. Also, Irving could have been a good side character who would help in the character development of Nicole by being another point of view but nope, he is just a useless character who just adds in "Oh this p*dophile is actually a good guy" narrative. The graphics of these games are so good but it isn't enough to save it from its horrible writing.

[@thomasb7347]

I was thinking Irving could be the remnants of her father's power over her trying to convince his last worshiper that he was indeed everything she thought he was, a perfect god who did nothing wrong

[@greywolf7577]

So you think it can only be good if it has a happy ending? Guess what? Some children that are groomed spend the rest of their lives trying to make excuses for their abuser. That's real life. We shouldn't be surprised if a game copies that.

[@Astrolionking]

Nicole: I can justify grooming a child and causing her death but I draw the line at making a shrine Everyone: You justify grooming a child??

[@Chillipowww]

“She wasn’t a child, she was a young woman” Or “Well only if my dad does it, he’s an angel”

[@doesitmatterwhoiam8838]

I interpreted that as jealousy. To me, I would have liked the story to have been this, Nicole has sort of a Norman Bates attachment to her father, and Irving becomes the voice of reason. I would have like to have seen him go along with her version of reality because he needed her help to prove that Rachel was murdered, but in the end, he tells her exactly what he thinks about her father, the abuse of Rachel, her murder, and Nicole's idolizing of her father.

[@risky_busine55]

Literally could've almost been a story about Nicole being in denial about her family member, then eventually having to come to terms with what he'd actually done and the brother could have been trying to make her figure out what happened, not blaming her because she was a child at the time too and wasn't involved in her father's actions, but wanting her to see what her father really was. All the murder mystery stuff could've just been a way for her to try and rationalise believing it was some elaborate mystery and that's where the gut punch of the game would come in. It could've been a story about how people fail to see the monstrous things about people they love, but nah instead we get nonce apologetics.

[@germanbushin9723]

Community. A reference my eyes applaud.

[@MarcyStevonshy]

@@doesitmatterwhoiam8838 Honestly I assumed Irwin would turn out to be Nicole's hallucinated version of her father's voice, which would explain the very uncomfortable flirting and seeming excusing of some of the father's behavior, and that throughout the game Nicole realizes that hey the father was a PIECE OF SHIT and tells off that voice in her head. Like a form of self-therapy as she talks herself out of the thinking she was programmed (groomed) to have. But yeah, I also assumed Nicole was yet another Lolita victim of the dad and this was like an unreliable narrator from Lolita's perspective and unlearning her unhealthy coping mechanisms......

[@allimJ]

What hit me most was the CW for suicide, but not for sexual abuse/abuse. Why would there be no content warning for SV, right? Well maybe because nobody of the studio thought SV is part of this game, therefore no CW needed. Which is so disturbing.

[@allimJ]

@Jack-px8lf That's not how trigger warnings work.

[@selenite3890]

@Jack-px8lfyou might be acoustic

[@kingti85]

Audiophile

[@tinytoaster9519]

@Jack-px8lfYou don’t use trigger warnings like that. Look at doki doki literature club, they put warnings up multiple times even though the cover was deceitful and that didn’t make the game any less impactful anyways.

[@makeitthrough_]

​@Jack-px8lfHAHA, SURPRISE CPTSD, ENJOY THOSE FLASHBACKS TO YOUR TRAUMA!! BANG BANG NO TRIGGER WARNING SHOOTING FROM THE HIP BAYBEEEE Like what

[@noonaloona6200]

This game legitimately had so much potential, it could have been a dark commentary on how families will often blame the victim and keep loving the assailant despite their straight-up evil actions and how far in denial they are willing to go, but instead it takes the route of ACTUALLY victim-blaming and essentially doing what families in real life do jumping through so many Hoops to try and explain away Behavior that is unforgivable.

[@MertKayKay]

Yes I think so! Like I appreciate not all stories have happy endings but there's better ways to tell dark thrillers

[@misscheif]

A depiction doesn't need commentary to be effective, a moral doesn't need stated to be true, I really think looking inward about how you feel seeing something and making you think rationally through someone else's veiws is the most powerful statement a peice of art can make. Even the twisted veiws like this that trys to justify something we know is evil can help us to better describe and explain to others why these mindsets are awful as well as understand how people like this attempt to justify themselves

[@duskmare0000]

I agree, they could have gone in much more interesting (and acceptable) directions without actually changing much of the story. They could have made it an interesting exploration of how pedophiles can be the people you least expect them to be by showing off all the positive characteristics of the father character before undermining it with the pedophile stuff, personal diaries, etc. They could even have potentially made the character sympathetic if they presented him properly, which would have been an interesting way to highlight how people often caricature criminals as their worst crime, rather than considering them full complex people capable of both good and evil. Please don't misunderstand, I'm not suggesting at all that he should be forgiven or that people that are good in other areas of life should be given leeway for sexual abuse. Just that it would be interesting for the audience to experience being conflicted and doubting whether the father was actually a pedophile because of his good character elsewhere. Perhaps even allowing the player to take part in a moral dilemma where they get to choose whether to report the father or not, with there being very clear negative consequences for almost everyone involved except from the victim of the abuse, who may themselves try to defend the abuser due to indoctrination and grooming. That would be a pretty compelling ending: Say nothing and live a happy life, feigning ignorance with internal guilt or report it, ruin the lives of everyone your character cares about and be ostracized, but know that you did the right thing. They could also have taken a much more morally grey line where instead of the father actively pursuing and grooming the young girl, there was an attempt to resist flirting with her and to control himself, but during his lessons with her (where he might have been helping her overcome some of the difficulties she faced due to dyslexia by tutoring her in English or something) she reportedly (according to the father's journals) was provocative. This could either be true (perhaps the girl has already experienced some trauma at home and is acting sexually to reclaim control over her sexuality) or a similar situation to Humbert where he's seeing what he wants to see. If the writer really wanted to try to explore a 'consensual' underage relationship then they could have done so in far more compelling ways.

[@evarchavex4800]

If it's doing what families in real life do, then why pretend it doesn't happen like that? Yes, it's fucked up. And yes, it happens.

[@starrsmith3810]

Best Month Ever kinda did something like that. The mother goes back to her family with her son because she doesn’t have much time left and the game slowly but surely unravels just how twisted the family really is. Won’t spoil too much it but it includes grooming, attempted r*pe, and the family rejecting the victim and calling it a lie. It’s really messed up. Plus it’s set in the 60s so let’s just say a black child with a white family isn’t exactly a risk free idea.

[@NightEyeStudio1995]

This is pretty much “Age is just a number” the video game. That along with the creepy the creepy use of spiritualism, which… a lot of groomers have used as a way to convince their targets that they’re “mature for their age”. This could, *could*, have been a hard hitting story about a person being in deep denial and how they realize that their parent was in fact a monster… but instead it’s just an apologists wet dream

[@MertKayKay]

Yes exactly, I completely agree! Thanks for watching!

[@DicloniusRain33]

I used to date someone who would say these things about my sister. Dropped him like a hot potato. He's on trial for sexual assault now. Hope he gets the max sentence.

[@msgarmar]

@@DicloniusRain33 Thank god you dropped him, you didn’t just avoid a bullet, you avoided a nuclear bomb. You saved your sister from terrible, terrible, trauma, and I can’t thank you enough for that

[@appleglassjuice11]

Victim Blaming The Game

[@Chase-jt5ox]

This though, BIG this. It'd be a far better story if Nicole started out in denial, trying to grapple with the truth as more and more evidence piles on, you can even keep the ghost plotline as her way of trying to explain things in any way she can to put her father in a better light, eventually resulting in accepting that her father wasn't the wonderful, loving man she thought he was. You could even keep a lot of the stuff in the end of the game, but treat it as clearly bad. Like Nicole's father leaving that message for her, and with her new view of him and further context of who he is leading to her being absolutely disgusted by how he's still trying to manipulate her after his death, and of Irving, although also heavily manipulated by her father, being not only complicit, but actively supporting his sister's rape. Nicole learns to accept that her father was a piece of shit and she was ignoring the signs growing up, while Irving is so wrapped up in the bullshit that he offs himself to 'reunite' with his sister and the pedophile. Probably cut out the mother murdering Rachel though, hell why not have it be the father that killed her as an attempt to cover things up, or even having killed her mother as well because she found out too much? The final piece of evidence that it was never about love, only his sick desires and need for control.

[@mintobento1067]

As a CSA survivor, this feels like a punch to the gut. I knew people think like this about CSA survivors, but seeing something so blatantly and unabashedly paint a CHILD as the reason their lives are ruined is horrific, and terrifying. This is the reason people like me don’t want to tell people; because we’re so afraid we will be blamed for something we could never control. A child doesn’t ruin your fucking life. You can sleep and forget about it; but it will never leave that child for as long as they live. This is an agonizingly disgusting game, and I hope the developers and writers know they’re awful.

[@neoqwerty]

Society aiming the already bullshit madonna-whore complex at CHILDREN is genuinely despicable. Like in what world do people understand consent and power dynamics SO LITTLE that they feel confident enough to say this kind of hideous shit and defend a person who has ALL THE POWER in the relationship while demonizing the person WHO CAN'T GIVE CONSENT AT ALL, MUCH LESS ANY INFORMED FORM OF IT???

[@froggyyyy107]

Bruh people legit think this way about csa survivors wtf

[@howthetubbiestelly]

@@froggyyyy107 oh absolutely. I was forced to tell the story about what happened to me and I was still told it was my fault, or that “it wasn’t that bad because what happened to ME was worse than what happened to YOU”. It’s horrific.

[@froggyyyy107]

@@howthetubbiestelly how tf do people think it’s your fault that’s the “person” who did it. That’s like blaming a victim of a random stabbing

[@howthetubbiestelly]

@@froggyyyy107 exactly. it’s like getting robbed and being like “well that’s what you get for having a nice house”. it’s insane. sex crimes are the only crimes where it’s accepted by portions of society that it was YOUR fault something happened to you, when that’s not true in the slightest.

[@AC_336]

I felt so angry when Irving treated his sister's grooming by Nicole's father as a pure and unadulterated love. He as her brother was supposed to protect her, not enable her groomer.

[@Chicken-Chaser]

Exactly, I can’t image what brand of rage I would feel if something like this happened to one of my sisters. Absolutely disgusting creeps writing this shit

[@JackalopeBunny]

What's worse is it almost sounds like he wanted to be with his sister as more then her brother. That he loved her more then as a sibling. It's like ew.. you could of made him a decent person or something, like why did they even do that.

[@abbynufer5296]

“She held herself like an adult. She had a dress with a bow in the back.” ????????? The game is really just contradicting itself at this point. Having a dress with a big bow on the back is so obviously a thing that little girls wear.

[@beaujagr]

It feels like a reference to Alice in Wonderland, which has its own problems!

[@rickwrites2612]

Is it from a different culture like not anglo? I know in different cultures and times a bow in dress would be something a child looks forward to being old enough to wear. Although in old anglo it would still be more transition from small girl to teen. Like boys being old enough for trousers instead of short pants.

[@heywhohithelights]

@@beaujagr yeah the dude who wrote Alice and wonderland was a fking monster it’s about him actually assaulting his niece….he was a pedo!

[@EnderPanReigns]

Yea, I remember wearing this to a wedding when I was six!

[@Foxglove_fairy]

I think its alluding to the way that although she held herself like an adult - eg, had developed seemingly adult traits, she was still a child.

[@toad248]

I personally dont think theres anything wrong with Nicole’s dad sounding like he does, after all a groomer doesn’t have to sound creepy or sick, a groomer can be anyone. Had this been a better game, they couldve even used his comforting/fatherly voice as a way to show one of the many ways in which he couldve manipulated and taken advantage of Rachel. Unfortunately, it seems like the developers genuinely wanted to paint Nicoles father in a good light, despite everything, so I guess his voice was unintentional.

[@Keychain696]

I thought the same thing! The play "How I Learned to Drive" does a good job of doing this by having the predator/pedophile character who's the main character's uncle be written to be played by a father-like, "Atticus Finch" type actor to show that not all victimizers are gross and creepy looking. I think doing that is actually a good thing because it shows that predators can look very different from one another. But, again, they did that in this game for the worst reasons :_(

[@Kazmahu]

I thought the same thing about the letter. Those exact rhetorical techniques would make sense from a character who was victim-blaming, sticking her head in the sand and choosing to believe her husband was simply unfaithful rather than a predatory monster. Sadly neither the writers nor the end product have the self-awareness for that.

[@Elyseon]

As a result, it almost sounds like this was written by pedos.

[@miigi-p4939]

it would even be creepier you listen to everything this monster did and your imagination fills in how much his voice and appearance must be awful and you hear a calming voice its like oposites clashing so hard till it becomes unnerving

[@katierasburn9571]

@@Keychain696 its similar in the book heroes too, the protagonist's friend (both in school) is raped by a teacher/youth club leader that helped the protagonist find his confidence and learn new skills and its such a holy shit moment in the book but of course his "fatherly" character is the reason he had gotten away with all of it for so long is because no one could believe this lovely man would do such a thing, and i think thats a very real point

[@thequeenofcringe1585]

I would like to add, as someone who lives in a state where the age of consent is 16, nobody cares about if a relationship is technically legal. If you’re almost 50 and have a sexual relationship with a 16 year old, people are still going to see you as a fucking creep. Nobody is going to be like “well it’s legal, so I guess it’s fine.”

[@kaiserike]

And depending on who you know, someone might do some vigilantism. Me and my family would.

[@dillonwalshpvd]

Rhode Island here, we had 16-year-old strippers still when I was in high school, I believe legally, but yeah, it’s definitely not looked at nicely by general society, that’s just the law on the books.

[@Midnight-Starfish]

I had a friend that had a decent counterargument to this, at least for our age at the time considering we were about 15 or something, when someone tried to justify the age of consent in different states which was, "Yeah, it's also legal to eat microwaved mayonnaise through the pump of a shampoo bottle! Doesn't mean people aren't going to think something is wrong with you and that you shouldn't be doing that."

[@xd._.28234]

​@@dillonwalshpvdin Spain it's illegal to have minors in such world

[@nutmegdoesstuff1339]

Honestly, I think we need to normalize being disgusted at anything even close to that level of age gap. Imo an 18-20 yo with a 50+ person is gross too.

[@creatorofstuff8754]

A ROCKING HORSE!? WHAT TEENAGER HAS THAT?? There was no way Rachel was older than 10 i don’t care what the story says. Only a CHILD has a rocking horse

[@creatorofstuff8754]

But also…the victim blaming is so blatant in the game. I just can’t-

[@kerrytakashi12]

If the child was mentally handicapped…which seems to be the case. The game gives so many conflicting stories.

[@whensomethingcriesagain]

Pretty sure it isn't hers directly, and it's more like a part of how Leonard sees her, ie as a child

[@ahstiasummers5583]

@@kerrytakashi12even so, dyslexia affects primarily reading and writing. It doesn’t affect learning the way say… severe autism may. Point is dyslexia alone doesn’t make someone act like they’re 9-13. Writers wrote Rachel as a child, no matter how much they tried to insist she’s not one

[@Zelda00Gamer]

Yeah it’s almost like the writers knew they couldn’t even attempt to get away with Rachel being 10 so they made her “16” but put her in childish clothes (dress with the big bow at the back) and a childish room (rocking horse etc) so that the pedos playing this game understand she’s not 16 wink wink and they can have their fantasy and justification. The rest of us are just meant to ignore it? I guess??

[@marysnyder9405]

Lolita is so interesting and infuriating because the point is that you're supposed sympathize with Humbert and then go "I'm sympathizing with a pedophile? What in me relates to this monster?" It's not just about getting into the mind of a monster, it's about realizing the darkness that is also found in you. Too often we write off bad people as monsters and that allows us to get away with monstrous behavior because *we're* not a monster. When you read Lolita you're not just supposed to be analyzing the book, you're supposed to be analyzing yourself. Nabokov was angry about people viewing it straight up as a love story, and even said that he never should have published it in English- he only should have ever published it in Russian, because Americans weren't *getting it*. When he published it, he even stated that he didn't want the cover to have Dolores on it at all, he wanted it to be stark. And yet, my copy of Lolita has sexy nymphette Lo and a blurb from Vanity Fair: "the greatest love story of all time". Fucking kill me.

[@applespotty2232]

Alright y’all have convinced me, I’m picking up Lolita

[@Grangolus]

Death of the author strikes again, eh?

[@imsleepy6211]

Honestly every time someone told me so and so can’t be an abuser because xyz I tell them to read Lolita. Either they’ll realize not every jerk looks and acts like a stereotype - or they miss the point and they’re too far gone.

[@Grey_Warden_Invasion]

I'm glad that it was released outside Russia since I really liked the book. I have no idea how people could see it as a love story though aside of maybe people who were still too young to understand. I also can't say I sympathise with Humbert though. It was more of an interesting read seeing the events from the point of view of a pedo.

[@imsleepy6211]

@yuuzakatendo7612 That's so sad. That's almost like anyone who makes a story about murder is a murderer. It is clearly obvious Nabokov really despised pedophiles. He even stated there should NEVER be a girl on the cover.

[@loblollypine8223]

The fact that she was disabled too is very disturbing. Disabled people have higher rates of sexual abuse and abuse in general. It's so uncomfortable.

[@thegameranch5935]

I guess the devs did their research

[@mykaruest3620]

​@the game ranch I mean pedos know pedos tbh

[@notveryintelligent6239]

Yeah in other words, this game sucks

[@OlTimeyChara]

Obviously, the more vulnerable you are, the more prone you are to abuse

[@demighostgirl800]

​@@OlTimeyCharaExactly. Always after the weak.

[@tieardragon4919]

Honestly they could have “saved it” if she completely freaked out in Rachel’s room finally realizing that she was a child. That her father was a monster and that all the adults lied to everyone to cover up for that monster. She was a child herself so she didn’t understand that a 16 year old is not an adult. She should have fallen down on the floor and started apologizing to Rachel. But no they had to do that. There is denial and then there is just…. THAT… WTF Also about the autopsy. I’m a forensic chemist and I study cases. There were several suspicious deaths that were ruled as a suicide due to a reason or another. It’s awful but it happens more often then you imagine.

[@fernandarubilar4596]

here in mexico we call that "being suicided by ten gunshots in the back"

[@lexwolfhale1729]

Or make it so that all Nicole's denial about her dad was stemming from trauma caused by her own father who preyed on her like he did on Rachel and that all her positive memories may have been true but that she had removed all the negative by locking it away... or even her having been brain-washed by her father to be the perfect victim and the perfect accomplice at the same time...

[@marocat4749]

Or she has speechless inbetweens and hr having conflicting comming that through to end it with, yeah that its her trauma but she mor and more agnowledges th possibility. And her being spuuchless can bbe ambivalent that she might be open.

[@TheAnomaly00]

@@fernandarubilar4596 In the US it's called "Suicide by Clinton"

[@TheAnomaly00]

@@lexwolfhale1729 Or, if you you absolutely _have_ to make the dad still be this awesome guy, make it so that Nicole has to resolve her own memories of her dad with the reality of his actions. That both are equally true. Hell you could even add an extra layer of fuck-uppedness make it so that Nicole was jealous her dad had spent so much time with Rachel, therefore giving even more weight to the apologies.

[@K4rmauh]

There's a few uncomfortable moments where Nicole and Rachel get paralled thematically. Having Nicole's father implied to have equally loved them is horrifying, and the scene with the blizzard in the fire made the possibility stick out to me in the first place, when Leonard says the 'wrong' name. Rachel's brother is also involved in this grooming, and is, in a way, reflecting those feelings onto Nicole as well and.. its an awful, terrible revelation.

[@nickxon]

full disclosure, i’ve never played the game and am judging this solely from the video so this could 100% be just a case of “the-curtain-was-blue”-style englit reaching. but i agree, and part of me wonders if that was the point/if the parallels between them both were meant to mean something far more metaphorical. there seem to be lots of “freudian slips” like her father calling her rachel + the explicit mentions of rachel’s childlike room. nicole is also quite receptive to irving’s advances towards her throughout the game, despite his establishment as a predator later on. hell, the game is called “the suicide of rachel foster”. rachel was murdered. she’s not the one who commits suicide at the end- plus, i don’t think any healthy young woman would commit suicide because her pedophile father died. all this to say, i think there’s a possibility that nicole completely avoiding mentions of her father’s sexual abuse and romanticising his and rachel’s relationship could have been a purposeful choice to establish that the mc is an unreliable narrator who has equally been influenced by her father, if not by her image of him as a “good person” alone then by something far more sinister. …but maybe i’m giving this game more credit than it deserves.

[@bingonight1504]

​@@nickxonthis is the only interpretation that allows my brain to accept that this game was written by a woman

[@fedethegreat88]

​@@bingonight1504Except it wasn't

[@espeon871]

@@nickxonif theyd went with this angle, and then gave rachel a voice slowly thru the games with the actions of the character here, it wldve been nice. It distinctly shows the dad as a pos and everyone who was involved in the murder of Rachel Foster as a pos too, while also exploring the mind of a depraved monster and Rachel's life thru understanding what he saw in Rachel and how those same feelings had by the dad manifests for Nicole. Like, slowly show Rachel's life as like cutscenes unrelated to the MC or any character thus, having her as a character.

[@xLiLlyx98]

​@@espeon871I almost wished for Rachel to be haunting that hotel just because it might have given her a voice, but then again they probably would have totally botched that as well so maybe better that they didn't 😂😅

[@MP-fc7qt]

It's the kind of story that looked really promising till the ending ruined it. With Nicole's extreme denial, her conspiracy about Rachel being murdered, and the whole ghost thing, the game seemed like it could've gone with some kind of disillusionment/anti-mystery plot like Edith Finch. Shame the writer decided on such a bizarre, creepy thesis.

[@MertKayKay]

I agree! Thanks for the comment Gary, glad you enjoyed the video 🥰

[@artemouse2378]

I was thinking the same thing. You can easily spin this in a more worthwhile direction (Maybe not flawless, I don't think you can cover subject matter this heavy without ethical issues). Even keeping the opening letter the same, and acknowledging later that her mom was shifting blame to Rachel because it hurt less to say "some young woman stole my loving husband away" instead of acknowledging that her husband groomed and raped a 16 year old girl. That still opens up the possibility of finding out by going into Rachel's room to see a child's room, which I think would make an impactful scene. (still possibly distasteful, but that feels like a deeper conversation)

[@MertKayKay]

@@artemouse2378 I think you're very right there; there's a lot of potential for stories like these and there's always a place for one if done well!

[@isaacpianos5208]

I watched the first 13 minutes, I only know about the letters from the protagonist's mom and MertKay's little review on Lolita And I tell you, this looks really promising, I'm preparing myself for a big disappointment once I see tue truly disgusting things about this game

[@isaacpianos5208]

Just finished it What the fuck did I just watch

[@Queen_Beelz]

Idea to make this game work: Fully lean into the 90's/80's fashion for Rachel, make her be a childlike teen. Her room was literally pink with a teddy bear, she wouldn't have been this mature woman. Make her nervous and panicked. Make notes from the father about Rachel, trying to twist Nicole's views. Make Nicole finally realize her father was a monster, realizing her justifying of her father's actions was the most disgusting thing she could've done. Make her mother not a killer, but someone who was horrified about what her husband did to an innocent girl, leaving her husband and trying to help the girl. *Help Rachel.*

[@Queen_Beelz]

To expand on this: Maybe have Rachel regress into a childlike state due to Nicole's father's abuse. The better ending would be the mother trying to find Rachel and help her. Make it so that she went missing. Nicole's reasoning for coming back could be that Rachel may still be hiding there. You can twist the reader's expectations by making them thing its haunted, only for them to realize that Rachel might be in the house instead, meaning the signs aren't of a haunting, but someone hiding. Just rename the title, too! "The Mystery of Rachel Foster" would've been so much better. And fix Nicole too! Maybe her lack of empathy could stem from what her father did. Fully lean into her father's wickedness. What if Nicole is denying what he did to Rachel because it mirrored what her father did to HER? MAKE IT BETTER GOD DAMN IT!

[@KingofGermanic]

I had an idea to change it in a way that changes as little as possible and retains the situation as being vile. Reveal that Leonard *wasn't* a pedophile. During Irving's speech about love is love, it should unsettle you only to have you realize later that he was trying to help her and she had been abused by someone else, maybe her father, or maybe Irving if we need a visible character to be absolutely abhorrent. Her mother doesn't find out about an affair but instead that Rachel is pregnant and assumes the worst, which causes her to accuse her husband. It would put the rest of her denial into perspective at the very least. This is where I thought they were going to go with it, if I didn't already know it was a terrible story.

[@arcadiaberger9204]

@@Queen_Beelz "The Mystery of Rachel Foster", like "The Mystery of Edwin Drood", the book which Charles Dickens died without finishing, which centers around the disappearance of Edwin Drood. Many people who have studied it are convinced that Dickens intended for Drood to turn up alive before the end.

[@aysenkececi2916]

@@Queen_Beelz L Q. .m

[@Queen_Beelz]

@@aysenkececi2916 huh?

[@MelodyYoung]

Worth noting: Our Protagonist insists stubbornly that the messed up child's room couldn't have possibly been her father's doing, but at no point in the game is there ever any alternative provided. It very much is his doing, and she's very much in denial about that fact. Also the fact she had a learning disability and he wrote the R-slur on the chalkboard is not a coincidence. Despite all the talk about how he "loved" her it's pretty clear he didn't and he probably demeaned and belittled her constantly to maintain control over her.

[@espeon871]

I agree! Although, it cldve kept this in but rewrote the whole story in a way that gives rachel a voice amongst all this and also shows how Nicole like her mother is also pushing the blame from someone she cares abt aka her dad, to his victim, and the contrast will show how hes the villain and shes also the villain too for literally falling into his trap of hes a nice guy and he cldnt have done that and other reasons to get her dad off the hook.

[@thenim8999]

Another telling thing is that, even with Nicole's explanation of it being a shrine it'd mean her father dedicated what is clearly a 20s Hollywood, sterotypical child's bedroom to his "lover". It's just another confirmation that he *did* see her as the child she was and was sexually attracted to that innocence in a predatory way. I doubt a man whose adult lover died would remember her with a wooden horse.

[@espeon871]

Yep.. the worst part is they cldve kept this in, and even nicole's insistence if theyd just made rachel a character in this thru snippets of her life before and after and during leonard. Also if it showed that nicole still had some kind feelings towards her dad more, like she does show talking abt his mancave, it shows that nicole is seeing this and saying this from a skewed pov and although shes was a victim and she sees things like this cuz she was a victim of trauma inadvertently, shes still also a pos because she ultimately rids her father of his wrongdoings while also showing that her dad is a pos thru and thru. W/o making this into some shock OMG HORROR and like GUYS ITS TRU LOVE UWU type of game. The fact everything cldve stayed if only theyd handled this well and had Rachel be a character independent of the other characters is insane.

[@strawberrysangria1474]

There's something so creepy about the way this game looks at women, let alone young women. It's like they view strong, independence as bitchy, rude, defiant, and seriously in need of an older "gentleman" to guide them. The way Nicole says I love you and her father says "I love you, Rachel", holds implications. The way Irving describes his own sister as a "beautiful luminous creature". Seriously, everyone in this story is either predator or prey, and the prey put the predators on a pedestal they never deserved.

[@MertKayKay]

Yes you're right! I never noticed when I was looking at the game but a lot of people in the comments pointed out similar veins of "women are shrews or tragic virgin girls and men are strong and guiding and powerful"

[@nunceccemortiferiscultu7826]

Think that's bad? Just wait until you hear "gangsta ral" lyrics.

[@Astartes-6969]

​@@MertKayKay Everyone involved in this game should be arrested.

[@Lucifronz]

@@Astartes-6969 Or bankrupted, at the least. Horrible fucking message this game spreads. It's nothing short of harmful.

[@harlothex3326]

nicole honestly greatly reminds me of my old best friend; bitchy, aggressive, antagonistic, but most importantly: willing to excuse any horrible act of her father, even hero worshipping him despite his heinous acts. he was, id wager, just as bad as leonard. which is insane, considering the hell leonard put rachel through, but i lived through a similar hell. that was being actively justified by my real life "nicole" and all the other members of his family. i think that would have been an entirely different and much better story, to unravel all of a disgusting father's monstrous crimes through the eyes of a daughter he groomed into hero worship, and dealing with her struggles to come to terms with the fact that maybe she is also a victim. but nope, instead we get this 2d pile of flaming shit

[@mariaf.1732]

As a victim of sexual abuse, everything about this game and story is making me nauseous. Like, physically uneasy and a feeling like I'm gonna vomit. If I had played this game when I was a teenager, only years from getting free and the height of my struggling, I would get messed up. A lot.

[@mariaf.1732]

It's the epitome of "she wanted it".

[@KornLordd]

@@StudioUAC 🗿🗿

[@demis362]

I'm sorry you had to go through something like that. I know how you feel (though not from sexual trauma specifically), like, legit feeling disgusted and physically sick when people take something so personal and hurtful to you and make it cool or romantic or positive in such a tacky, problematic way, especially if it's a whole fucking story trying to convince people to agree with its twisted narrative

[@mariaf.1732]

@@demis362 I'm doing a mental hug at you right now.

[@movedaccountsbye]

im so sorry you had to go through that, :(

[@yaranaika8314]

As a victim of grooming, the way they described how Rachel was suffering before meeting Leonard and how he was the light in her life really struck me with disgust. I’m way too familiar with that setting. Back when I was groomed (13) I was also in a vulnerable and depressive state. The man (21) who reached out to me knew I was an easy target because of my mental health and therefore used that to his advantage by treating me well and acting as if he understood me, which I needed the most at the time. He built a strong bond with me and every time I 'disobeyed' or did anything he didn’t like he'd pull a 180 and threaten me. Being full aware that I had no one else I could reach out to at the time. Even though I was being threatened I’d give in to him in the end because my unstable and young mind was deathly afraid of loneliness. Groomers don’t want to help you out of your void, they just want to be in control of it. Whenever I felt extremely down he’d comfort me but whenever I was progressing to a healthier mindset and managed to hang out with my others he’d scold me and pull me back.

[@Harloquin]

I was 10 he was 21, a blonde haired blue eyed Ukrainian boy. We drove across the country together and he loved me. He was my first real love. I don’t think he took advantage of me. He didn’t hurt me. The men who got to me before him and the ones after hurt me; but never him. The irony is I was named Lolita after the Nabokov novel…and to this day, I still think of him and wonder if he remembers little Lola. He saved me. Sorry your relationship was sh!t, but not everyone has a sob story about their supposed "groomer." I’d have died were it not for him. I know he loved me, and he’d hold my hand when he drove, teaching me to handle a stick. He loved the music I did. He was my prince, spiriting me away from a father who actively tried to kill me. He got me medical care when my father wouldn’t. He beat my father when he blackened my eyes. He was my protector. The only one I ever had. I wasn’t groomed. I was loved; unconditionally.

[@graey13]

@@Harloquin stockholm syndrome

[@danicakelly2242]

​@Harloquin This sounds like it was written by a pedophile. Even in your little fantasy to make yourself seem like the angel, you couldn't resist adding something phallic with obvious innuendo (teaching her to handle a "stick") we know what you really are: an abomination.

[@Anomalyresearchlabs]

I hope that is true. Either way good luck

[@Anomalyresearchlabs]

Massive credit to you for getting out of it. Keep healing.

[@MidgarMerc]

The Japan age of consent thing is especially stupid because the extremely low places where it IS 13 really only covers couples that are within 2 years of each other. So a 13 and 15 year old and I'm pretty sure it requires approval from the parents. That rule applies for the entire country for anyone under 18. In fact in Japan you weren't even considered a legal adult until you were 20 (this changed like a month ago and is now 18)

[@Kimmie6772]

Yes!!! I hate that people throw around age of consent in U.S. states when sexual relationships with a minor is still illegal and the age of consent only refers to the age children can consent with each other. The only exception to this is romeo and juliet laws. Marriage on the other hand still has major loopholes and it's disgusting.

[@BratzRockAngels]

The fact that it was 20 before and changed to 18 just shows how people want to prey on young girls (and boys) and get away with it. It's the same in America. Every person I've seen defend the 18 year old consent was a grown adult (mostly male) trying to find a justifiable reason to be with a teenager.

[@MidgarMerc]

@@BratzRockAngels no you psychopath it's because 18 year olds deserve more rights since 18 is generally when you finish high school. And 18 year olds have always been legal to have a sexual relationship with. There's even 18 year old Japanese girls who do porn. Though sadly this change will actually hurt those girls because it will be harder for them to get out of bad contracts

[@xnicaisy326]

@@BratzRockAngels Correct me if I'm wrong, because I don't know all that much about Japan, its culture and its laws, but I believe the change was made mostly to give 18 year olds more financial freedom. Also, the marriageable age for boys will stay the same (18) and for girls it increased from 16 to 18, so that's somewhat contradictory to your statement. Whether or not this is a good decision is a different conversation, but I personally don't really think that decision specifically was made, just so it would be easier to pray on children. But like I said, correct me if I'm wrong, I'm not Japanese myself, I just read a couple of articles on the Internet about it.

[@J4CKS0N_D34R3ST]

I think a big issue is like the first 3 pages on Google say 13 which can confuse people and most places with talk of it are controlled by creeps (this comes from a minor who used to believe the age of consent bs). This is the first place I could learn the truth actually.

[@nikoteardrop4904]

It could've very easily become an incredibly effective horror game if Nicole's realization of Rachel's age and the fact Leonard was an abuser had resulted in horror and disgust on her part. It makes me wonder if the writer is himself a groomer.

[@LolaRyck]

My guess was it was young men who wrote this game They launched on to a theme they liked and used it as a jump off. They were clean enough to get published and not get in trouble

[@WisteriaNerium]

@@LolaRyck the credits show a woman wrote this

[@whitetrashing2056]

@@WisteriaNerium nah, check the pinned comment, the writer is a man. daniele is just the italian spelling of daniel!

[@WisteriaNerium]

@@whitetrashing2056 I brushed past the pinned comment, thanks

[@cam4636]

IDK if the writers are groomers, but I'd bet they see SA as "scandalous" instead of actually traumatic

[@Emmie_Lou]

They paint Rachel as only the victim of the mother. This beautiful girl was killed by this older woman out of jealousy. I’m shocked they were able to justify the father’s actions and even the brother’s, and that the worst thing that happened here was her murder. They don’t show her as the victim she is. This family came along and absolutely ruined her life and then gets blamed for the downfall of said family?

[@CisnePelado]

Unfortunately that's how social stigma works. I have a cousin who got repeatedly abused by her mom's husband, she said it out loud and the reactions teared my family apart. She was right to do so, but the side that stood with the abuser (Most of the family at that moment) blamed her for what happened and said she should've waited until her mom fixed that private issue. This happened almost 5 years ago and the guy was never detained or trialed, and he's still in contact with that side of my family 💀

[@averntic]

@@CisnePelado wow... how despicable

[@chocomelo454]

I mean they def are right on the killed by an adult out of jealousy part, because... that was the canon reason... but also because that's surprisingly common. especially when the victim was raped by the person that they're jealous about. back when slavery was legal, white women would often murder women who were raped by the white men and in some cases would kill her children as a form of vengeance. especially if that child was fathered by the white man. and those women would always be slaves to the two. there is no argument that it was consensual, she cannot consent to a man who she is the legal property of and has no choice about that. however often the white woman would be abused by the man. BUT I don't consider that an excuse. if she kills a rape victim or a child to spite a rape victim, and if she owns slaves, I think she's a piece of shit. one woman who was victimized by the wife of the white man who abused her testified that later on, the youngest child of the couple had died while playing outside in a tragic accident. depressing.

[@icravedeath.1200]

​@@CisnePelado if they can, they should get as far away from them as possible.

[@icravedeath.1200]

​​@@CisnePelado​ Somebody close to me did innapropriate things to me when I was a child and now it's left me with severe mental illness and abusive and pedophilic habits I'm gradually working through with professionals to make sure I get proper treatment so i don't physically hurt anyone. I guess I can sympathise and empathise with the feeling if being scared of tearing your family apart. I'm scared about snapping our family in half, at least I can take some solace in knowing I'm at least trying to take some accountability for my abusive/criminal behaviours. Sorry if this was triggering, I just felt like sharing this with someone, I'm autistic and I struggle to understand social stuff. I think I should stop sharing stuff like this on public forums and maybe I should share this with my counselor instead.

[@genesisknight9948]

The fact that the wiki says, and I quote: 'The developers sought professional advice for the game's depiction of topics such as child sexual abuse and suicide, to portray them with sensitivity.' And then seeing all this handwaving of grooming and assault, it angers me, like why get professional opinions on how to portray sensitive subject matter in your game when your gonna frame it as "oh it wasn't rape, its TrUe LoVe" Like wtf.

[@jen_is_not_ok]

Honestly I’m starting to suspect the “professional” they sought out for advice was a convicted pedophile

[@namtellectjoonal7230]

You know, the original premise kind of had potential...the concept of a "daddy's girl", somebody who idolized their father their whole life, discovering that their father has something as abhorrent and disgusting as grooming and CSA could have been really interesting. But that would require the talent to write actual character development and the basic understanding that pedophilia is bad, both of which the writer of the storyline clearly doesn't posess... The way the father is handled in this game is absolutely disgusting and honestly, the whole game is just dangerous. For one it excuses and justifies child abuse as something positive and thus normalizes and enables grooming PLUS it literally gives a step by step guide to suicide...what?!??! How can you justify releasing this to the public?!

[@MertKayKay]

I absolutely agree! The original premise is really interesting and I think there's always space to examine themes like this in gaming. It just wasn't done super well

[@thegirlwhoanimates9814]

I agree with this. I think it would have been better if it was from the perspective of Rachel's relative or sister and she is trying to find the answers she needs and find the truth.

[@souheki_]

@Done_with_this01 you do make some valid points ngl lmao it’s just some guy’s twisted version of “love”

[@kris79599]

@Done_with_this01 It's not even from the point of view of the person committing the crime? and MertKayKay more than addressed the point you think you're trying to make. That had it just been the dad justifying himself, it would be one thing. It is that No Character in the story telling frames it as a bad thing- at no point is there anything that calls any of it out. When it is just one character (or even a set of characters) who believes something, it can be a character flaw. But this is the writers' world view being shown.

[@Ajehy]

What about this ghost story narrative?: Nicole is a teenager & goes to the hotel to investigate 10 years after her father’s & Rachel’s “double suicide”. She idolizes him, and all her life she’s been told biased, victim blaming stories. It turns out that the hotel is haunted, and she assumes that the violent ghost activity is Rachel, while the presence that keeps protecting her is her father. But it’s the opposite. The dad is trying to kill her because she’s “the right age” and he wants to keep her spirit with him, just like he did to Rachel. Rachel is fighting to protect Nicole from her fate. At the end, Nicole realizes who her father really was and helps Rachel put him down for good.

[@renoia3067]

I was groomed between the ages of 9 to 16. Dozens of people over the years have implied or outright told me it was my fault, or that I probably enjoyed it. Do you know how fucking disgusting that is? A 9-year-old girl does not know she isn't ready. 9 year olds want to be grown-up, they want to be like the big kids, do what the big kids do. Every kid wants to be told that they're special and they're ready for things earlier than everybody else. A groomer takes advantage of that. Blaming a child for being tricked by someone intending to trick them is like blaming a dog for playing with a toy. Edit: I left this comment 8 months ago. Please stop talking about fascism in my replies.

[@cryguy0000]

And kids don't understand what sexuality even really is. I know I sure didn't, when I was asked to do something for him, I didn't understand the implications or the reasoning I simply did it. Because I trusted him and didn't understand anything about it. Blaming ignorant children who rightfully don't know any better is disgusting

[@Kerenscardi]

I’m sorry that’s awful I really hope your doing ok now 🫂

[@cayleebrew6391]

I was groomed too, I wonder if you relate to the feeling of having your childhood stolen from you? Or idk if anyone told you while you were being groomed "you're not 18? Wow you're so mature for your age", there was just so much trauma. I really hate how awful this story is, and especially how everyone was portrayed, specifically Rachel.

[@Kerenscardi]

@@cayleebrew6391 🫂

[@cryguy0000]

@@cayleebrew6391 i certainly feel that way. Although my SA experience was very minor, but the way he treated me after along with my family constantly fighting more or less destroyed my childhood

[@halicusdiaarcan102]

The absurdity of that Freudian Slip--referring to that room as a _kid's_ room, despite implying maturity--was just depressing. There was little thought put into this game.

[@sand_eater101]

There was *no* thought put into this game. There was that kid’s room in the hotel despite implying that Rachel was mature for her age, as you said. The writers emphasised a lot of child-like features in Rachel’s nature despite putting such heavy emphasis on her being 16, rebellious and, again, mature for her age. They obviously made shit last second changes neverminding the rest that they did to make her appear 10-12 at most. In reality she could’ve been, but nobody mentions even a slight hint of suspicion surrounding it so personally it’s unlikely

[@theanubisfan10]

You know what would've been an interesting story? Rachel's dad was the one who killed himself. Leonard dies. The mother never tells Nicole why they divorced. The affair was between Nicole's father and Rachel's father which destroyed the family. There! No pedophilia, no grooming. A tragic love story because they were in a time that didn't accept the love between these two men and drove one man to his death.

[@melodyscorpion6606]

This would've been more interesting lol 😂 maybe less scummy mother as well? And Nicole could be a interviewer of... drag queens or sum subculture of queer folk

[@ahstiasummers5583]

Extra drama, it could be that the mother was homophobic and divorced her husband before dripping poison into Nicole's ear about how horrible of a father and husband he was. Or maybe the mother was an LGBTQ supporter all along, but lied about her ex-husband's death to protect him from a judgemental public eye. But then Nicole wants to learn more about him Maybe throw in an element of Nicole having a boyfriend or girlfriend, whether her thoughts are "could that be my fate someday" or "I didn't know queer people were treated like this". If Rachel or Irving was aged to be around Nicole's age, one of them could be set up with her so it's "our fathers were in an affair with each other?"

[@HorrorHijabi]

Now that is GOOD.

[@AbanonedChannel]

And also very gay 👍

[@dono5529]

I don’t think removing the key elements of the story like this make it much of an improvement, rather it just feels like an attempt at making a new story using the same names. Which can be fine, but I do think a story (if it was well written, mind you - and Rachel Foster absolutely isn’t) about grooming, pedophilia, and the psychological effects both of those would have on the mind of a young girl trapped in a frozen over hotel, and exploring the suffering she went through day after day is an interesting premise that was tackled horrendously.

[@kyloforshaw8400]

this game is the definition of "tell me you touch kids, without telling me you touch kids." for these writers.

[@judyhopps9380]

I've reached a point in my life where I feel people who make walking simulators are on par with paedophiles. The fact there exists someone who is both now terrifies me.

[@kyobear5453]

🤣😅 seriously holy fecking shite

[@michellesimmons2756]

​@@judyhopps9380 yep

[@llamaniaman4002]

They 100% support Matt Walsh and see no issue with him, a grown man, saying "Girls are most fertile at 16"

[@judyhopps9380]

@@llamaniaman4002 I like how you had to bring your lame ass politics into this.

[@Macky2Tacky]

For all the people freaking out having S/A in a game isn't bad, pretending that it's ok and making it look like Rachel wanted it is the bad thing. Also making the family the victim is horrible. If you put S/A in a game you have to be careful and informed. This game is not it. Edit: Thanks for all the people who explained it in depth in the replies!

[@Macky2Tacky]

@Ton Jor I get your question! All I'm saying is do some research on the topic before you make a game based on it. Like if you make a documentary on something you have to be educated on it or you're bound to say something dumb. It's also just sending a bad message. Game or not it's not good to spread misinformation. Thanks for asking!

[@stevepalpatine2828]

Its part of the lefts push to normalize pedophilia, trying to rebrand chomos as "MAPS" drag kids like the Desmond victim, its vile.

[@Astartes-6969]

Is there any game that deals with it well? I was gonna say Rdr2, specifically Sadie Adler cuz she gets SAed & her husband is tortured and killed in front of her but she becomes a Pyscho & goes on a rampage and even after taking revenge on the Gang that did that too her she becomes a Bounty Hunter cuz she wants a Death wish.

[@bittergumdrop3132]

@Temperate Shower Detractor ik someone answered ur question but I also wanted to added my 2 cents. Wen writing about sensitive topics such as these ( suicide, sa, n so forth), it's really has to be done right. Even if, in this case, Rachel wanted this relationship and wasn't somehow manipulated, forced, ect then why is her age so prominent to the story? Why is her being "mature for her age" something that keeps getting brought up? It's the justification and normalization that this universe in the game keeps trying to push even tho morally, it's wrong. If it was supposed to be a commentary about how high class society or families view these sort of situation n ended with the realization it was wrong, those sensitive topics would work. But if u changed Rachel's character and age, all of those shock value points that they use mean nothing. And that's all it is, is shock value. I think ur question was interesting n just hoped by responding someone else would get helpful info from this as well :)

[@bittergumdrop3132]

@@Astartes-6969 I don't think there's much of any form of media that deals with it well, they all use it for shock value or cheap character "development". There's very few forms of media that uses it well. I think maybe one goodish example of using it in a story is in the movie, Gerald's game, on Netflix.

[@ayvi8850]

This game could be so amazing if Nicole had no idea how old Rachel was and slowly she realised that her father was a creep. She still idolised him but then she changed her mind. Or second idea, Nicole and Rachel is the same person! We are now 40 and come back to the motel but we have amnesia 😊

[@teslashark]

Yeah I also thought they are the same person, or Rachel is educated into a stand-in for Nicole. But no, we can't even have a classical NICOLE IS DEAD without the press F to die minigame

[@literaryloser4470]

That is kinda what My Sweet Audrina is. She's constantly abused and manipulated and she's told that her older sister (also named Audrina and born in the same day) was raped and murdered, but that was actually her (excepted the murder part) and they keep her isolated and keep her unaware of time or dates and basically make her lose her sense of self so that they can manipulate her memories. The father molests her and uses her, the mother enables the manipulation, and the cousin wants to murder her because she wants the father to herself. I wouldn't be surprised if the writers of this game wrote this while stroking off to VC Andrews. Same disgusting enabling pedophilic bullshit.

[@greywalker505]

⁠@@literaryloser4470 I was just about to comment, “So, basically, ‘My Sweet Audrina’?” Not gonna lie, though, that wouldn’t have been a bad twist, Nicole repressing her memories of being assaulted, making up this whole fake life where that happened to another girl, where her dad was this wonderful, brilliant man, and blaming “Rachel” is a subconscious way of blaming herself for it, with the last being a sadly realistic behavior among victims of SA (or so I’ve heard. Don’t hold me to it). Not to mention, the bit where she dreams of her dad calling her “Rachel” would make more sense in a sick sort of way. Maybe I’m just trying to think of ways that this game could have worked. I dunno.

[@R-SXX]

​@@literaryloser4470what does vc mean?

[@Egan-pop]

​@@R-SXXVC Andrews is an author who wrote questionable books

[@thedarkrocker333]

The fact that you actually pronounced the words the way they're supposed to be said, like rape instead of grape and pedophile instead of pdf file, instead of censoring yourself for the sake of monetization, has already earned my respect. Excited for the video.

[@blueflare3848]

Who the fuck uses grape as a censor? If anything that feels more like an insult to the victims.

[@thedarkrocker333]

@@blueflare3848 Everybody who talks about those topics, and prioritize being monetized over the topic at hand, will use those words

[@salem-01]

@@blueflare3848it’s very common on TikTok I think, but TikTok has really ridiculous censorship rules. I’ve talked to my friend on the app before and one of my messages got flagged but all it said was “excuse me??????”

[@red0421]

Unfortunately for some creators they have to censor because KZbin will sometimes remove a video if they don't. It's not always about avoiding demonetisation, sometimes it's about making sure the info gets out past KZbin. Apparently you can upload messed up content like prank channels with pranks that are more criminal acts than practical jokes, or content creators who are known for taking too much of an interest in the young people they have access to, but according to KZbin you can't talk about it, especially in a negative way like any person with morals would.

[@horrorontherocks]

While we don't want to censor ourselves, its not worth the risk

[@nicknasty6369]

Cannot fathom how they literally show a creepy kids-room shrine built by the father for Rachel, highlighting that even if she was "mature for her age" her childishness and her vulnerability is what the father was attracted to,,,,,, and then STILL treat the father like a Christ figure for the rest of the game,,,, the absolute AUDACITY

[@ant3t3]

oh god that puts it into a somehow grosser perspective than the theory that they intended for her to be younger in the earlier stages of game development..

[@TheBlackSpastic]

I interpreted that Irving created that room. Remembering his favorite time with his sister. Since he specifically mentioned near the end that all the school kids would call her what was written on the chalkboard.

[@thequeenofcringe1585]

That room was one of the biggest freudian slips I’ve ever seen

[@blazaybla22]

@@TheBlackSpastic Yeah Irving set that room up

[@fylimar]

That sounds like a really atrocious game. And it seems, that the writers really don't like women. The men can do nothing wrong, but Nicole is unpleasant, her mother a murderer and Rachel just the boytoy for Nicoles father without a hint of getting justice. All the while the two men in the game get to explain themsleves in great detail and no one questions them. Not a mention of child grooming and rape. I really won't touch that game (and I might from the description, because it sounds like a mystery - I loved Edith Finch and would have put it in that category). Thanks for going through with it, so we don't have.

[@MertKayKay]

Wow that is actually a theme I completely missed when I was playing it! You're right: they fall into these classic women in literature categories - Nicole is the shrew woman, Rachel is the Virgin maiden, their mum is the spiteful witch. Whereas Irving is the gently guiding narrator and Leonard is basically a god. That's so interesting, I never noticed 🤔🤔 thanks for pointing that out

[@mandymooncakes]

not to mention how the subtitles say “you marched against abortion” as one of the main character’s good attributes, it’s clear the developers just hate women

[@AgarthanExecutioner]

Honestly, the goddamn game was just rife with misogyny and pedo apologia. The devs probably intended this fucking garbage to be thought provoking, but ended up creating one of the most sickening things I've ever witnessed. I would genuinely rather play something intentionally offensive, at least those games try to be entertaining and the devs aren't circle jerking over their terrible writing.

[@Diabeticninja90]

It’s a story relax Sherlock wtf lol

[@completelynormalperson7077]

@@Diabeticninja90 it's a story yes, but stories have themes, notices, ideological writings. Subtext, just because "it's a story" doesn't mean it doesn't have those themes. It's actually more likely to happen because often writers subconsciously or even consciously write their opinions into subtext.

[@fairytalesim7153]

This game is not just gross, but dangerous. This game is saying that pedophelia is a good thing, people are going to see this and think, they're right. How this game was even allowed to be published is dusturbing.

[@MertKayKay]

I think the worst part is that the game is like "most pedophiles are bad, but this pedophile is special", like that's exactly what a groomer would tell a victim, don't imply there are situations where it's ok!

[@bennichol1510]

@@MertKayKay yeah I mean I'm all for tolerance and stuff but dude Fuck them nonces

[@EarlyOwOwl]

Honestly why doesn't Steam just ban this game already? Is there any way to report it?

[@shiki9989]

What a good thing? This isn’t teaching you it’s good it’s made to be uncomfortable because they want to disturb you! It’s a horror game. You’re suppose to have negative feelings about the situation wtf

[@urmumismywife]

@@shiki9989 absolutely not. stop defending pedophilia and rape. go to therapy because that’s reprehensible

[@olivegem6853]

I’m kind of disturbed that they reveal the mother killed Rachel. It straight up says Rachel didn’t kill herself because she was groomed, but because she was a bitter jealous woman who blames Rachel for their marriage breaking up. On top of the Nichole’s “strong woman” thing in this game seems like it’s being portrayed as a defence mechanism that she needs to stop pretending so that she can embrace being with her father and his philosophy or something. Like the whole problem with this situation for Nichole and in the games narrative is just that Nichole is upset that her parents broke up and not that her father is a pedophile. Like this is just a problem because it’s an affair not an underaged girl in a relationship with middle age man. It’s all so disgusting.

[@braidena1633]

You're not looking at it through the lens of, the 'case' representing a shared psychosis by everyone in the family, and the sorts of justification one *might* go through if they just found out about something uhh not great lets say. There's gonna be denial and justification that will look very blatant in hindsight. Which is the whole point of the game and *so* many ppl don't get it

[@jillreyerma7592]

​@@braidena1633 I mean even if that was the intention, this many people not understanding it probably indicates there's a writing issue to be honest. If that was what they were going for, it clearly wasn't communicated very well. It all just seems far too vague and ill defined. I get that these situations are complicated and have many layers, but I just feel like they didn't get their point across (if indeed this was their point). Obviously the game shouldn't just tell you everything instead of showing it but I feel like the showing could be a lot clearer here. In addition, I feel like it's especially important when handling extremely difficult topics like the ones this game is attempting. These themes in particular are a writing minefield, you have to be very careful. I would argue that this amount of supposed misinterpretation shouldn't be happening in a story that has a clearly communicated theme and plot.

[@braidena1633]

@jillreyerma7592 well since I wrote that I've heard of a couple instances where this game happens. Unironically. Old dude with a minor, and everyone around them just kinda accepted it and it became the norm. The satirical nature comes from you meeting more and more people and everyone's cool with it. I forgot what happened to Irving but the cherry on top was Nicole getting in the car to die of CO poisoning. The entirety of the journey in this game is completely retarded. Starting with 911 on an answering machine, ending with a press-F-to-die scenario.

[@katiek2615]

In addition to Humbert telling his version of reality in Lolita it is also noted in the prologue of the book that this whole account is essentially written to Humberts jurors in order to lay out his case, so he is definitely motivated to make himself look as good as possible to them.

[@MertKayKay]

I really love that detail because he still accidentally lets slip that she was miserable, so you know that she was probably in absolute hell and he couldn't hide it

[@isabellekh8112]

You really have to read the book as if you're a juror - examining his narration, looking for gaps and inconsistencies, being skeptical of everything, and constantly trying to see it from Delores's perspective.

[@Bustermachine]

@@MertKayKay I've never actually sat down to read Lolita. But your comment about not 'getting it' at the time you first read it sort of resonates with me coming from storytelling from the other direction. I've dabbled in fan and original fiction for a long time. And when I went back to look at some of the earlier stuff I wrote in my late teens and early twenties I was like : "Wow. This not only isn't romantics. It's actually kind of creepy." I hesitate to say I feel 'cringe' about it as the kids say these days. I was writing on something I didn't understand by aping popular fiction badly. But it definitely illustrated to me that there's this important experiential gap that we have to overcome as we mature.

[@MertKayKay]

@@Bustermachine Harrison I was exactly the same! Loved fanfiction and the content without fully understanding how it would be IRL. Thanks for the comment

[@Bustermachine]

@@MertKayKay I mean, I still love and write fanfiction. I've just become a lot more discerning about what I read and hopefully thoughtful about what I write XD

[@murkynights4178]

I hate most about this game in particular is that the protagonist essentially says “Never mind he was a pedophile, he would never create a shrine to a dead person!” like really? THAT’S the thing you’re concerned about?

[@shytendeakatamanoir9740]

The most frustrating part is that this is directly linked to him being a pedophile.

[@amiefortman7220]

And the fact that she uses the words "fell in love" to describe her father's actions... the writers decided to put those words in the character's mouth. It really shows how they feel about real-life CSA victims. "Love" nothing, it was child grooming, plain and simple.

[@iwakeupandboomimarat]

@@amiefortman7220 honestly this game doesnt allow rachel to have a voice, its all people interpreting what she did and putting their own beliefs onto a 16 year old child (honestly this counts for both the characters and developers). rachel exists to be a plot point and a tool for selling the game via the shock value of the title

[@Xylospring]

It actually isn't that surprising. The scene sounds and looks absurd to her so of course she'd snap. Irving tries to speak but doesn't get a chance to try and speak, while She denies it because Nicole is losing it out of horror that her Dad would literally make a Shrine to Rachel. Tbh...She's more emotional then I am in reaction. I'd probably cause a Fire there in disgust and leave. It's an error message for her. Does not compute.

[@Xylospring]

@@iwakeupandboomimarat There really should have more more voice For Rachel. Maybe a Diary or...maybe filmstock of them Talking together. Not alot on Leonard speaking as well. Maybe we can pick up on tones that smack people back into reality that he is grooming her. It would be disgusting audio, but it would paired with a Diary Log give more voice.

[@flutegirl134]

What gets me is that this setup could have been used for an absolute emotional bomb. Here’s the outline: all Nicole knows is that her dad was staying at the hotel alone for a few months, and then a girl turns up dead nearby and her dad is accused of murder. He ends his own life in the face of the accusations and Nicole is devastated and outraged. Nicole goes to the hotel determined to prove that he didn’t kill her. Irving is a private investigator who agreed to help her. She starts the game absolutely sure that her father is a good person and was falsely accused. As the game goes on however, she finds more and more evidence of what was really going on and is forced to accept that her father was a monster. Irving reveals himself as Rachel’s brother who suspected what was going on but no one believed him. He agreed to help her because she could give him access to the hotel and he could find out what really happened to his sister. The ultimate choice at the end could have been whether you expose your hero, the father you love more than anyone else, or try to hide his sins. Maybe you could even have to choice to kill Irving in order to hide the truth but that might be too on the nose. Anything’s better than the garbage this game gives us

[@heathercalun4919]

That's definitely the better version of this game, but it's still a real tightrope to walk. It's complicated whether it was Irving's "job" to protect Rachael. And honestly, sometimes I think that trying to improve this game only gives it what it wants by giving it attention and fetishizing it. Sometimes I think all art (not just as an industry, but as an ideal) is pointless and disgusting.

[@wfl19]

Well, they did nail the creepiness of the game, I do believe they should've had more dialog, maybe Irvine could've planted evidence like Rachel's diary. Or Nicole's mom's diary. But yeah it could've been better. At least their is nobody attacking you. Hunting you so you can take as much time as you want to explore.

[@curleyqreviews9793]

Make the decisions even more conflicting. Have the choice to prove it was suicide and release your father who might go on doing his monsterous actions or keep it quiet and let him rot in jail for a crime he didn't commit to atone for the crimes he did commit and got away with. Maybe even add a character who is completely optional who can kill your dad if you decide on the first option. But it only works if you have a good relationship with this person

[@Religion0]

@@heathercalun4919 most older brothers would feel it was their duty, and their failure, to protect their little sister. It doesn't have to be true to feel that way.

[@Snapdragon0112]

26:30 As a law student, I want to specify that “hey, it’s legal in this one specific spot” is a horrible moral standing to take. A lot of things are legal in a lot of places. Legal does not mean good. In my state we allowed for a 14 year old to marry a fully grown adult if they had parental permission. It doesn’t get much more immoral than that.

[@AmyoftheFlowerField]

Here's how we make the game work: 1) Structure it that Leonard spent his entire life gaslighting Nicole into believing that this was okay and she's parroting what he said, but as the story progresses, she begins to fumble. "She walked and talked like an adult, and wore a dress with... a bow... on the back...?". Typically, bows on dresses are seen as more childish than that of a mature woman. As the story progresses, Nicole becomes more unsure and Irving is encouraging this through conversations about their childhood, liking bringing up, I dunno, a bowling ally. "Oh I remember that place, I worked there briefly and there always these creeps that would hang around there." Record scratch as Nicole suddenly contemplates the situation, and again tries to deny it, to which Irving is like "is it really that different, Nicole?". 2) Use Irving as a medium to make Nicole realize what happened and give him access to the hotel. Irving is here because he wants closure on his sister, to clear her name, and to prove Leonard guilty, but he needs Nicole's cooperation to do it. He can't get full access to the hotel with Nicole as the owner. In the "revelation" scene, Irving is like "Your father groomed my sister, nicole, and I couldn't protect her then. But I will clear her name and protect her now.". That's when Nicole has her coming to jesus revelation notice in which the game has two endings depending on your choices with Irving. A) Nicole, in the throws of denial, tries desperately to burn down the evidence of her fathers crimes but inadvertantly kills herself as the fire gets out of control and destroys the hotel. Camera pans out to a man who's face we can't see, kneeling in the snow outside the hotel, apologizing woefully to his sister. Ending B) Nicole comes to terms with what her father had done, and lets Irving into the hotel. Scene cuts and we hear them talking about what was found. Irving reassures that Nicole is doing the right thing and thanks her profusely for her help, but is also sorry she had to find out like this. Nicole shook her head and says something to the effect of "Lets just get this to the police while the weather is calm." The two get in a car together, and Nicole gets a call from her lawyer. She decides to sell the hotel. As the two drive off, we see a figure of a girl hovering outside the front door. It's Rachel, and she closes her eyes and smiles as the screen fades to white. Rachel, knowing her brother will clear her name and bring the truth to light with Nicole, has found peace and moved on.

[@Stoopy_Gregory]

THAT WOULD HAVE BEEN SUCH A GREAT IDEA

[@Yoanka]

I really thought the game would be a more subtle version of point 1). I had too much faith in a story tackling such a difficult topic and at first thought "surely that's what's going on and the reviewer misinterpreted it or something". It 100% made sense to me for this girl who idolized her father and spent a big part of her upbringing with him to be blinded by his rhetoric and clutch onto his innocence desperately. But then the narrative didn't take those steps to open her eyes, it seems. I like the game plots you've laid out way better.

[@emjedalmontasser2374]

Its good, but maybe her floating outside the hotel is a little insensitive. This story should stay in reality, and a her ghost appearing randomly would be weird

[@VVesteria]

This minus the showing of Rachel ( I think it adds a supernatural element that doesn’t need to be there. Someone who’s dead can’t come back) would be great!

[@pelipoika88]

Of all the suggestions regarding how to make this game good, this is my favourite. Nicole being the child if a pedofile, thinking her father was such a great guy, slowly being deprogrammed by her friend and starting to see the truth.

[@skywalkerchick]

Another really bad aspect of this game’s writing is that the devs obviously thought they were writing a feminist protagonist, but the fact that Nicole apparently marched against abortion rights, constantly blames Rachel for her own grooming, and refuses to see her own father as anything but a Christ figure is proof that they have no idea what the hell they’re talking about

[@MertKayKay]

Hahahaha the model woman

[@nopatiencejoe6376]

@@williamthompson3308 Here, have this "Yikes". You deserve it.

[@kittykittybangbang9367]

@@williamthompson3308 ofc you have an anime pfp

[@thebilldozer7970]

@@williamthompson3308 apparently women can not be against abortion. You have to agree with the herd.

[@riooos1345]

@@williamthompson3308 not having the right to abort a fetus is awful. do your research. Anyone with a uterus should have the freedom to choose whether or not they want something to dwell in their body for 9 months.

[@Neku628]

I am guessing that Rachel also killed herself because her parents likely found out she was pregnant and who the dad was. Rather then blaming Nicole's dad for being a perv, they blamed Rachel for "seducing" him than the other way around. It sounds like Rachel's dad and Nicole's dad were friends for practically all of Rachel's entire childhood and Nicole's dad

[@Lakadaizical]

Dear lord

[@WobblesandBean]

In other words, men being men.

[@indianajo3557]

Rachel didn't actually kill herself though, Nicole's mother killed her (which makes everything even more strange, since her mother is the one that sends her there in the first place)

[@Neku628]

@@indianajo3557 it's kinda unsettling that she saw Rachel as a seductress instead of a teenage girl that her predator husband preyed on.

[@mistral9950]

Oh god

[@VVesteria]

Never read lolita but your explanation makes me imagine a movie titled “Dolores” shot entirely from her perspective. I’m sure the original author would have found that concept interesting too

[@UndeadSaffron]

There's actually a book written from her point of view! It wasn't written by the original author but I believe he supported

[@VVesteria]

@@UndeadSaffron that’s so interesting, I’ll look into it

[@suspiciousplatypusmoth]

@@VVesteriaputting this here to remind me eventually to check it out/look around for it- I’ll try and toss you a link if I do!

[@VVesteria]

@@suspiciousplatypusmoth here’s your reminder because I just saw this notif

[@BabyDoll-qk9xe]

@@UndeadSaffrondo you have the name?

[@bec3581]

They could have turned this around with Nicole loving her father and finding out how much of a monster he was throughout the game and becoming horrified, but they settled with this?

[@anastasiaromanov3563]

The set up for it was so perfect in every single way... When we found the copy of Rachel's incredibly childish bedroom after being repeatedly told how mature and confident she was I was convinced that was gonna be the first thread for realising that maybe her dad wasn't as great as she remembered. I got like 90% of the way in before I finally had to admit to myself that the big emotional revelation wasn't coming. Genuinely thought the big twist at the end was gonna be MC having to come to terms with the fact that Rachel really did kill herself because her dad was evil.

[@damienwit]

The fact that the game constantly puts Leonard on a pedestal, trying to convince you that Rachel was an adult in a child's body, while all evidence suggests that Leonard was a disgusting pedophile is just shocking. How did they fuck up a story this bad?

[@teslashark]

It would have been the easiest confrontation story ever, but no, the game would say press F to die

[@basicsimp8798]

Nicole is one of the most hateable character ever created and the fact that I feel like she can actually exist in the real world is just terrifying. A woman who doesn't want other woman to have choice regarding their own body, a woman who thinks victims of grooming are to blame for being groomed, a woman who thinks horrible person is not bad as long it's their own family member.

[@user-ic8kn6by6m]

Oh, she exists, it's more common than you'd expect...

[@darkcrydotmrihavetoomanyst1440]

​@@user-ic8kn6by6m they're called Karens

[@luxiken6719]

Thats the real horror aspect of the game

[@malan873]

My grandmother is like this

[@JenIsHungry]

How is she more hateable than a fucking PEDOPHILE????

[@pako_shark]

A game that ends with an interactive suicide via carbon monoxide poisoning is a "unique" storytelling choice

[@mahirahmed6523]

Nice seeing u here pakpak 😮

[@draegur]

Man this sounds like such a gross game, kudos on you for bulling through it and sharing and warning us. Man the developers seem messed up. And no, the writer Daniele is a man, he's Italian, it's more like Daniel.

[@MertKayKay]

Oops! Sorry Daniele 🤣 thanks for watching Jay, and thanks for the correction! Glad you enjoyed the video

[@sammysabo]

It’s really not if anything this reviewer made it way weirder

[@rifleshooterchannel208]

@@sammysabo ok groomer

[@sammysabo]

@@rifleshooterchannel208 what did anything I say imply that , did you actually play the game ? I’m absolutely and completely against pedophilia never said it was okay lol. Weirdo. Coming from someone who’s been groomed too so 🤷‍♀️

[@rifleshooterchannel208]

@@sammysabo You’re defending the game. You can’t make something this disgusting “sound way weirder” because it’s about as outlandish of an idea as there could possibly be.

[@Shirayuki20]

As disgusting as it sounds, I think Nicolle was also somewhat groomed by her father. That is where the denial is coming from.

[@iwakeupandboomimarat]

same this rlly gave me the vibes of someone who was at the very least emotionally manipulated, if not groomed like you said

[@hannahbeanies8855]

If this had been done right, the game could’ve been such an interesting exploration of this

[@maca76]

the first days i totally thought that, like maybe Kay wasnt understanding the "real story" about a father so vile that his abuse made the daughter unable to see him as he is bcause that would wake the trauma she is represing, but nope... he was the good guy that saved a poor depresed girl through his love (???

[@Xylospring]

@@hannahbeanies8855 In time I say if someone buys the rights, or if the dev can be convinced, maybe they can enhance the game more. I overall found the game incredible but do see that it is missing so much more to it.

[@tymondabrowski12]

That's the "Twilight is actually a cautionary tale" type of theory. Some writers just don't see how bad things are in their stories. I know even one in real life, it's not that bad but they still put some problematic stuff in while refusing to even see the patterns, let alone admit that those patterns are bad.

[@Sergei_Ivanovich_Mosin]

One thing I noticed, Rachel is supposed to be 16, right? Near adult teenager, yet nothing we get in the game seems to reflect that, outside of just explicitly telling us "she's 16" everything from her "room" to her explained mannerisms to the emphasis on her dress having a big bow on the back like a child's dress all correlates with a MUCH younger child, like a 12 year old at best. I get the feeling the writer actually did want the character to be significantly younger, but knew that would absolutely destroy his career so he "aged her up" a bit to be at more of a (in his mind) justifiable age, which didn't really work because a middle aged man dating his 16 year old student is still pretty messed up even if it's legal in some places.

[@aromaladyellie]

The only way she can be 16 and have those interests and dress is if she wasn’t dyslexic but developmentally handicapped and Leonard lied about what her disability was. But I agree I think they wanted Rachel to be younger.

[@tangerine1801]

Holy shit, that's a great observation

[@TreeDwellingShrimp]

That's the feeling I wad getting too. I was like 'this girl is supposed to be 16... bs.' Good theory on why they aged her up. Totally agree.

[@danielaardila5081]

Holy shit, I just learned about this game and I fucking hate it. Fuck that "writer"

[@walnutsrcool]

I mean in the book Lolita she’s 12 but every movie adaptation (and movies that aren’t supposed to be direct adaptations but clearly draw on it) have her at the youngest 14

[@LazyCatIsFat]

They could've had a good story. They could've had Nicole be completely pissed at Rachel at the start, not realizing who she is, only the woman who tore her family apart, thinking she wads just a homewrecker, etc.. But slowly, eventually, when she reads through notes/gets further into the hotel, she begins to realize that Rachel was a vulnerable child that was groomed by her father. First, Nicole doesn't want to believe it, who would want to believe something like that? But she reads more and more notes from her father and realizes Irving was Rachel's brother, and it just all comes crashing down for Nicole when she finally realizes how sick and evil her father was. I think it would've been a really dark scene when Nicole finally finds Rachel's room and it hits her how young Rachel was, and how vulnerable she was. The game could end with Nicole visiting Rachel's grave and giving some sort of apology.

[@simaoa.2420]

you just wrote the game better than the actual writer

[@jasperjazzie]

i hate how despite being the titular character and the reason the events in the game take place, the story isn't really about rachel, she's never really developed as a character or treated like an actual human, it's all about the people around her and their feelings, especially her abuser, as if the family being shattered from the dad's own actions is more tragic than a girl dying, she's dead and yet the game treats it as if it's not that serious of a thing

[@emilybarclay8831]

She’s the only main character who’s POV we don’t get. Even in the story about her own grooming, rape, impregnation and murder, she is voiceless, simply a tool for others to use

[@breakthecode4634]

I feel like this was the point and they really just fucked up design wise. Idk tho.

[@Micahthebee]

Like the reply above, I think the devs were trying to go for a commentary on how in real life SA situations the victim is almost always never given a voice or treated like an actual person which is why we don't hear her pov in the game at all. I think they were trying to say that everyone around her was a completely unreliable narrator to intentionally make us hate them even more but they didn't quite handle the theme right and it came across as...this.

[@worlds2ndbestlawyer]

(adding onto/on the same wavelength as Maxthebee__'s comment) i feel it really does reflect real cases as well in that sense. instead of the father being seen as the monster of the events, the reason for the family to fall apart and everything to unravel, it's all blamed on Rachel. "well she shouldn't have been there and seduced him and now an iNnOcEnT mAn has lost his job, family, livelihood. damn promiscuous kid!" is a story so common, it's depressing. i feel it could've been handled... decently if Nicole and the phone guy would've actually had any sort of condemning of the father. like, "the world is trying to say Rachel was in the wrong when Dad was the real monster all along! my childhood was a lie and i can never see anything the same!", but even then, im not a fan of that either. the whole game is so victim-blamey and just overall horrible that i feel it was doomed.

[@PhuongTran-yj7wz]

Unrelated to the subject but :Oh, you now have 666 likes

[@JanitoRiceMeister]

*Game:* Nicole is a cool, pragmatic independent woman who don't need no man *Also game:* Nicole gets so sad because a guy she knew over a phone for less than 2 weeks, who lied, manipulated her and trapped her in a freaky Riddler/Jigsaw killer house trap killed himself, she has to kill herself too, cause she's too sad now

[@layceelay5382]

Yeah, because finding out your dad’s a pedo, your mom’s a murderer, and and your old friend is a psycho trying to avenge his sister and your whole childhood was a lie wouldnt make you sad enough to end yourself

[@TayTayMakesBeats]

"Ok so we need you to write a strong, independent woman as our protagonist, that's been popular lately." "Woman? I see..." *hangs up* *"Hey Alexa what is a woman?"*

[@willfanofmanyii3751]

@@TayTayMakesBeats "Wait, I'm a woman."

[@isenokami7810]

I want to say that’s not why she kills herself, but that’s actually a better reason for suicide than the real reason. Not saying I’m advocating suicide, let alone saying there’s a good reason for someone to kill themself; I’m just saying the real reason makes me really angry.

[@gumshoe1285]

@@isenokami7810 what's the real reason she kills herself?

[@serafina59]

the child is so mature, yet they continue to push how disabled she was? This story is so gross..

[@MertKayKay]

Yes! I've come to realise (thanks to many helpful commenters) that her dyslexia is either a severe case or has been extremely and disproportionately exaggerated by the game too. Rather than struggling a bit with reading and knowing lefts from rights, she is portrayed basically as illiterate. There's got to be something there

[@wilczycazksiezyca4796]

@@MertKayKay Dear fucking god. It's absolutely haunting

[@levchenkodarya]

About not giving Rachel chance to voice her opinion: it would be kinda cool, if for the most part of the game we were hearing Nicole's father's voice, his perception, his worldview, redacted or intentionally misunderstood by the daughter that idolised him, not hearing a word from Rachel, only for it to do completely 180° turn after we find Rachel's room, where this image would shatter and we would finally hear the poor girl, that Nicole previously refused to listen to preserve the ideal image of her father, but to whom she could not play deaf any longer.

[@Nono-hk3is]

Up until Irving's revelation, this sounded like a very nuanced depiction of a child (Nicole) in extreme denial about the terrible reality of their beloved parent. The ending should have dealt with Nicole coming to some sort of realization of the truth. The ending they wrote doesn't make any sense. I wonder if there was a shapeup / interference that led to such a hacky rewrite.

[@MertKayKay]

I agree! I think the story had a lot of potential until the end when they began to start dropping a bunch of 'traumatic' moments on the player: the four-month baby reveal, Irving and Nicole's deaths, the dad's speech, the murderous mum - just seemed like they threw a lot at the wall to see what would stick and it really harmed the ending I think. Less is so often more

[@fangirlstampede3065]

I know! All the groundwork was in place to make this into an allegory for what a person goes through when they realize someone they love is a monster. It's a scary thought for anyone, and it's rife with opportunities to portray it in a visual medium. But in the end they had to go with literally the worst possible choices they could make. Hell, even the ending could have been made better! Either she comes to terms with who her father was and the irreparable harm he caused to a young girl, or she falls deeper into the delusion that this was just some "illicit love affair" and her father was the loving man that she thought he was. Instead they went with a "lover's suicide", like they completely misunderstood Romeo and Juliet. If The Suicide of Rachel Foster was just an insensitive game, trying its damndest to be edgy and dark and shock the audience, then I wouldn't be so mad. I'd just write it off as stupid. But when a game has so much potential to be good and powerful and meaningful, and instead says "Nah" and gives us the stupidest, most damaging conclusion, that's when I lose faith in humanity.

[@4thofEleven]

That's what I was thinking - this could have been a really good story about a character who can't reconcile her happy memories of her father with the truth about his actions. All the weird red herrings could have been her grasping at increasingly tenuous straws to find some other explanation - maybe it was a murder, maybe Rachel faked her death, maybe this is a ghost story! - if the final 'twist' had been that there is no twist, no alternate explanation, she just has to accept that her father groomed an underage girl and drove her to suicide.

[@emexdizzy]

@@4thofEleven I expected Irving to be out for revenge because Nicole's father hurt Rachel, and the romanticized twist that he condoned the relationship was an insultingly disgusting choice. You could have a shocking, even horrifying ending where Irving turns out to be dangerous and attempts to kill Nicole in a twisted form of vengeance, blaming her somehow for what happened, and this betrayal from someone who tricked her into trusting him shocks Nicole into understanding Rachel's experience being preyed on by her father. She manages to kill/subdue Irving, then goes to the police, and copes with the aftermath of these revelations by taking flowers to Rachel's grave, learning that neither of them deserve blame for what happened. Why ANYONE would write the sort of ending that actually is in the game is beyond me, it's disgusting.

[@PathBeyondTheDark]

The angle should be "bad, questionable writing" and nothing more with countless explanations for them unless more comes to light. Some of the comments suggesting the writers are pedofiles or should be investigated are worrisome.

[@jiyangli9779]

if you imagine a hypothetical story where the same sort of stuff happens but rachel is just a younger *woman* - an actual adult, capable of giving consent, like late twenties, early thirties - and she's torn apart by a community that hates adulterers and murdered by a spiteful wife who didn't try to keep her man... ...this game would ***still*** suck because it's pretentious as hell

[@Sergei_Ivanovich_Mosin]

There's a reason people people use the term "walking sim" as a derogatory one, most of them are just the writers sniffing their own farts.

[@anerrorhasoccurred8727]

@@Sergei_Ivanovich_Mosin or it’s people who obviously want to write visual novels, but see it as “below” them, so they try to put VN storytelling into a standard game 💀

[@flarestorm9417]

@@Sergei_Ivanovich_Mosin Walking simulators feel like games made by people that don't really like games. Yes, storytelling in games does provide some benefits that books and movies don't, but these are barely even games. You could watch a playthrough and get about the same experience as playing the game.

[@rickwrites2612]

​@@flarestorm9417 Some are really good though, like Soma.

[@JAB_the_Tab]

nicole seems like the kind of person who'd try to push a door marked "pull" for several minutes and yell at anyone who tried to tell her.

[@atimidbirb]

That´s a wonderful way to describe it

[@Melissa31179]

"if reality doesn't fit with my opinion all I have to do is mold my perception of reality so it fits with my opinion"

[@aronbrown7286]

Nicole could be so interesting: someone who is determined to ignore the family’s evils in order to live with herself, the kid who SAW A CHILD LIKE HER being abused. The horrible way they all describe the suicide, the blame they put on Rachel, it could all have been such an interesting commentary on victim-blaming and how we erase survivors… oof.

[@bilbo4907]

Yo Nicole’s straight lying to herself if she thinks that riddle her dad gave was good💀💀

[@MertKayKay]

That riddle was fucking tragic man, worst part of that game 🤣

[@skarut1485]

for real. shit didn’t even rhyme

[@barbararab6390]

"Roses are red Violets are blue Keep your kids away Or ill touch them too" -leonard probably

[@brawler5760]

Terrible fucking riddle.

[@anerrorhasoccurred8727]

He’s too quirky to make one that rhymes 🤪

[@arilawrence5853]

*tw* My dad abused me sexually as a kid, and because of the trauma, I was able to be groomed by others in my adolescence. I also saw death as an escape. I used to believe the message this game portrays. That was my life. It’s so disgusting to see this depicted as a *positive* thing. It makes me genuinely sick. Thank you for calling this game out. The respect you gave to these topics meant a lot.

[@brawler5760]

If only I could reach through this screen and hug you, then punch your dad to a bloody pulp until he becomes a paraplegic.

[@one-onessadhalf3393]

You doing better?

[@MadisonChesney]

TW: I know this is like not even the worst that could happen to someone since it was only once but I might’ve been 7 or 8-9 and it was my mom’s fiancé at the time who I had actually started to call dad and trust until one night my whole world came crashing down and I knew it was wrong but pretended to be asleep…told my mom in a roundabout way but it wasn’t until I told my cousin who told my aunt that anything actually happened and all cuz I was afraid my mom would be angry and my memory is definitely hazy and repressed because of how much I tried to forget but well there was a whole case/investigation going on but because I didn’t confess in time the case was closed and he’s still out there somewhere and I’m not sure if I can ever fully recover from it….i had no idea this game existed till now and I absolutely hate it and I’ve barely gotten through the video but I hope that you’re healing and doing better as well

[@w00rmz]

I find it crazy how people will use 'the age of consent is 16' when that law is put in place so that 16 year olds can interact sexually with each other, not so 50 year olds can assault 16 year olds.

[@spykidtalksaboutanything4395]

The fact this slipped past the rating system, which practically every game goes through, is fucking appalling. Games about suicide or serious topics are always viewed, but the fact they saw what essentially “Pedophillia good and romantic lol” is disgusting as hell, it’s like they didn’t pay attention, or they got bought off

[@GeoNeilUK]

I think the only authority that's responsible for what does and doesn't get on Steam is Steam.

[@V2ULTRAKill]

Yeah no Not a single rating system anywhere in the world (except maybe china) requires a game to go through it unless its going to be sold via physical disc I could make a significantly more disgusting and horrible game and theres a high chance it would just casually be up on steam for ages

[@sleepwalking3345]

@@GeoNeilUK its not just on steam tho. I was gonna get it since its on the nintendo switch. Thank god i didnt

[@Bongyes]

I think to get rating you need to like send parts the devloper deems most mature and them the rating body just gives a rating. Anyway the process is very vague and rating system isnt put into much care. Its a guildeline at best and misleading at most.

[@GeoNeilUK]

@@Bongyes I think that's how it works 7nder PEGI. There was a regime that was strictly for the UK where mature games had to rated by the BBFC where the BBFC did play through the games (though this was only for games that were to be rated 15 and 18) though they don't do that now, it's PEGI ratings only in the UK now.

[@mariecarie1]

Wow. Even in her murderous death, Rachel couldn’t escape the clutches of these perverts. That’s the true horror of this game. This game is truly awful.

[@tarraing6566]

it sounds as if the story of a girl who idolised her father growing up, finding out that he’s a pedophile could have actually been deep and interesting but they just did it completely wrong and insultingly

[@F76CC]

In your opinion.

[@itahdansi176]

(Spoiler) Humbert Humbert meets Dolores again when she is 17 so it hadn't been decades since they last met. But she is heavily pregnant and ends up dying I think during childbirth(I dont remember the exact reason why). So she dies at the age of 17 I believe. Her story is so tragic.

[@yugare-chan4742]

I find it interesting, however, that this game did comment on something that is often overlooked. Unfortunately, they did such a poor job that it missed the mark. This game takes place in an area where the age of consent is 16. As someone who was also raised in an area where the age of consent is 16 and who had their father's friend (45M) be extremely predatory in behaviour as I was getting closer and closer to 16; people are quick to point fingers at the younger of us for being "home wreckers". I thought it was interesting that the story tried to make a villain of a victim; because it does go that way often in real life. (Where the age of consent is set low, I mean.) You become vulnerable. It is a family friend, someone who you were made to trust, or someone with a position of power and then the next moment; you are being manipulated and pulled around. You fight back, you plea, but you are threatened by someone much older and you do not have the age and life experience to feel confident in the line of action. Next thing you know, you are the villain. The dirty rat that seduced a good man and tried to ruin his family. I feel like this game was trying to make a reference to this, but it was such strange writing that I cannot tell what the writers intentions were.

[@MertKayKay]

YES! I think so too, like as the below-age of consent person gets towards that legal boundary, they're the ones who are held in suspicion and told to mind themselves, not the predator. I agree that would have been a much more nuanced angle to go at it from - that's a fantastic consideration

[@BoyInGreyWasTaken]

I recently watched Girl, Interrupted and it also makes some mentions to this kind of messed up idea some people have about the victims in these cases, making them seem like homewreckers instead of acknowledging the manipulation they endured

[@questionablebackyardmeows]

​@@MertKayKay EXACTLY. I also think it's important to keep in mind that the dynamic of "if someone can check off the consent boxes, they can be blamed for being a homewrecker" is a horrific concept regardless of age. Someone can be 30 and manipulated by a sufficiently "skilled" narcissist their same age for example. So I feel the blame for a manipulative/dangerous relationship should *always* land on *who objectively initiates it/chooses to keep it going* because there isn't a magic number/amount of other knowledge that makes someone immune to abuse/gaslighting/coercive control. That's not justifying p*dos - far from it, *anyone* who chooses a relationship with someone under 25 is suspicious and probably a creep at least, and anyone who goes under 18 needs to just be unalived in a fire asap - because those decisions *themselves* are violently abusive or at the very least (in the case of say a 25 with a 21) questionable and problematic. But seeing as women in their 50s are drawn into romance scams and the like... no one is truly immune and blame should ALWAYS be on the predator/the manipulator.

[@Scarlettt343]

I always found the "age of consent here is" exscuse to be shit cuz it's supposed to be age of consent for someone in your age range NOT a full grown creepy ass adult

[@rosesweetcharlotte]

I don't get why men are always given all these passes and reasons, but women and girls get in trouble without even doing anything.

[@localmenace3043]

The fact that Irving had Nichole’s old yearbook and _inappropriately marvels at her fifteen-year-old self_ is so freaking disgusting, even compared to him calling Rachel’s grooming and manipulation “a love”. This game does _not_ deserve the 7/10 rating it has.

[@isenokami7810]

Oh yeah. Game is disgusting already, but only on this last rewatch did Irving dawn on me as an open enabler of the pedophilia, so very clearly on the path to being another Leonard even back when Leonard was doing his crap. I think he’s just as bad: his own crimes might not be on the level of Leonard and Humbert (though again, fulling enabling Leonard is appalling to say the least), but he absolutely shared their soul.

[@InvaderBB]

They probably payed people to give the game positive ratings or they botted it cause ain’t no way.

[@TricknTea]

That's the world we live in sickos get games like this.

[@josephpercy8772]

7/10?? Are you serious?!?!?!

[@groovymonty2186]

I was on this game’s side for a lot of this video, thinking it was a pretty cynical view on how families react to this sort of thing. Blaming victims, showing perpetrators in the best light, absolutely denying someone you admired your whole life could have done something so heinous. I thought it was a really smart bit of storytelling. But the Irving reveal really really showed me, no it isn’t an unreliable narrator who is surrounded by people who are also doing exactly what you are doing with no one to tell you otherwise, but exactly how the writers thought of Rachel. Holy fuck. This really is just apologism

[@MertKayKay]

I was exactly the same Monty! It's wild how much you expect SOMETHING to happen and nothing ever does. Thanks for watching btw

[@juanausensi499]

Same here. I was thinking while watching the video the comments were a little too harsh and somehow some kind of irony or message was being missed. But no. The ending clarified everything. Like a cheap horror story where in the end is revealed your friend was evil all along, same thing happens here, but not with the characters but with the writers. I can't fathom what kind of mindset can produce a story like this.

[@LillianFunnyFace]

P P to L.p.

[@MetatronAD]

Being a writer myself, you must be able to separate yourself from the characters you create to an extent. Unless every single one of your characters is supposed to be another version of yourself, which would be pretty boring. So I don't think that the writers necessarily thought of Rachel in the same way as Leonard or Irving did. Even so, they handled the subject matter very poorly. Especially as an artist of any kind, you have to be very cautious and empathetic when dealing with such topics. Here, it's like they had to build a house of cards and just threw the entire deck on the table at once. That said, it was a very... eh... bold move to create characters as endlessly delusional as Nichole. I'm almost completely sure they went for some kind of social commentary, but took at least three wrong turns and ended up with this. As for Rachel... I may not be a grooming or SA victim, but I still can tell that THIS is not how you're supposed to write one.

[@dragonmage7980]

I was honestly holding out for the big twist to be that Nicole herself had been abused by her father, and her blind veneration of him was how she coped with an unbearable reality, but instead it was just…*this*? Literally, how was this even made?! How did a whole bunch of people work on this and no-one was like “uh, maybe we shouldn’t be portraying the groomer rapist in a positive light?” Absolutely disgusting.

[@ironically_iconic9848]

Seriously would’ve been so good if the “truth” was Nicole reliving her experience with sexual trama and having to cope with taking her father off the throne he sat himself on in the first place. She could’ve been the only sane one, her father being a very charismatic but evil man who manipulated those around him and her finally seeing her “close” relationship with him as grooming.

[@yummybleach6107]

It just absolutely kills me that every woman is written as if they are the devil when in reality they are victims to abuse, kidnapping, assault and infidelity and yet every man is written to be seen as a god to idolize with all this intelligence and wisdom. I’m so worried that in a few years the creator of the game will be outed as a predator.

[@SnakeReaper115]

We'll considering the dad is a pedo and the brother is a "little" psychotic I'm going to assume you're just lying or you didn't play the game or watch it.

[@yummybleach6107]

@@SnakeReaper115 Did you not watch how they literally never condemn his pedophilic interests? Media literacy is hard for some I know.

[@SnakeReaper115]

@@yummybleach6107 Rachel specifically said near the end that she hated her father for what he did. I don't remember specifically what the brother said but he seemed to be okay with it since it brought his sister happiness and also seemed to hate him since it resulted in her death. The character pool is too low to make a general assumption. It's obvious the Rachel loves her father despite what he did. I mean it is his daughter.

[@HTFWSFWWE]

I really think Irving had a big sister complex, the way that Irving described his own sister made me cringe. I have three little brothers and if any of them mentioned me the way Irving talks about Rachel, I'd have them seek professional help.

[@SnakeReaper115]

@@HTFWSFWWE I somewhat agree. It's a game, its intentionally making things more dramatic. I mean I'm sure most brothers love their sisters but I doubt their going to openly write a love poem about them like he did. I think the point was just to point out that Rachel was a good person in a bad situation.

[@nicholasrodinos4701]

42:55 The child's bedroom thing could've worked if this was some psychological fantasy horror and this was the moment where Nicole who had been defending and minimizing her father's actions, has to realize that there is no excuse for what her father did. Maybe this story could've shown that her relationship with her father is what got her through rough moments of her life and that she feels like nothing without that connection, to the point where even when the evidence of who her father was is staring her in the face, she can't accept it, because then her super-cool, genius father that supported her through everything has been a monster and she's supported a monster, while demonizing a child just like her. Rachel could've been desperate to find someone to love her, that the manipulation of a predator was misconstrued into love in both a romantic and parental sense. The Irving thing could make sense if he was the type of person so gullible and desperate that when he found out about someone treating his sister with something other than contempt or dismissal that he like Rachel desperately clung to the man. If these people put effort and thought into their story it could've been a successor to Silent Hill.

[@MertKayKay]

Oo yes I love the reference to Silent Hill! You're right; the bedroom reveal was a kind of fork in the road 🤔 and leaning into the psychology of it and the grief could have make it so much more gritty and effective

[@reinstate317]

Nicole*, not Rachel, but yes

[@ratbrain6991]

THIS IS WHERE I WAS HOPING THE GAME WAS GOING WHILE WATCHING A SUMMARY OF IT AND I WAS DEEPLY DISAPPOINTED!!! I HATE THIS SHIT!!! Great review tho, very well written and paced and wonderful insight can’t wait to see more of your work!

[@nicholasrodinos4701]

Wow, over a thousand likes in only 2 weeks? Thanks, everybody.

[@0Lottee0]

I watched a lets play of this shortly after it came out and was expecting by the end that the daughter would, rightfully, be horrified over the terrible secrets her family has harbored and expose everything as penance for Rachel. I was fully expecting her to be righting the wrongs of her family and doing right by this girl who was abused and harmed by them. Nothing could've prepared me for the ending, for Rachels own brother encouraging the abuse of his sister and the game calling it all some tragic romance. From what I remember at the time the devs tried to say they themselves weren't condoning anything and where just telling this particular story from this particular perspective. But this world was created from scratch by them, they decided who did and said what and I don't think they can claim they where trying to go for a unreliable narrator who is obsessed with deifying her father when the game repeatedly and aggressively says this was an acceptable act of abuse. I am not sure if this is still the case but in the attic her dad had nude drawings of Rachel he'd made that the devs later removed or replaced with more censored versions. If they truly in good faith did not mean for this game to come across the way it did they fucked up, but I find it hard to believe thats the case and that they weren't trying to cover their asses when reviews started coming in.

[@dragondog1017]

I 100% agree with you. They created this world and so everything that’s inside it comes from them. There is no way they didn’t agree with the message or at least saw how fucked it was from the beginning. I’m sure they were just trying to save face. This game and it’s message is disgusting.

[@T-Jex]

What was the lets Player reaction, or was it a no comentar video, in that case what were the comments like?

[@CheshireCad]

"The devs tried to say they themselves weren't condoning anything and where just telling this particular story from this particular perspective. But this world was created from scratch by them, they decided who did and said what." Thank you. That's my biggest pet peeve when it comes to writing. "But it makes sense in the context of the story!" Yes, but the author is the one who created the context. It didn't emerge fully-formed from a sewer drain and force the author to tell it. This is the story that the author *wanted* to tell.

[@PoptartParasol]

@@CheshireCad yes, a million times yes. Makes me so sick to my stomach when I hear this excuse as it makes me ashamed of being a writer myself. Which I shouldn't be, because these people are just predators writing out their sick fantasies and trying to get others to empathize with them to slowly normalize horrific behavior. And that's not my goal when I write stories

[@johnnyguitar8067]

Just because you need to he spoonfed doesn't mean the story is badly written

[@CaydenDoesStuff]

I mistook the "Chat" button for the comments and now I have a suicide-hotline in my search history, thanks KZbin.

[@adalinwilliams6589]

I'm a victim of grooming. The disregard for what the victims go through emotionally in this game is so disturbing. Unfortunately though, too many people blame the kids in this situation. One might look at it broken down like this and say "Clearly this is appalling." yet the amount of people in real life who do this is heart breaking. I was the one who got arrested as a kid after being groomed. The man responsible to this day hasn't faced any sort of a charge. My mom blames me by saying I shouldn't have "put myself out there". My father calls me foul names and I have people who still shame me for " being with someone so much older" This game succeeds in giving the people who think like this the confidence to feel that way. They take a kid and place the maturity of an adult on them because they were sexually active. Because they were CONVINCED it was what they wanted. Because a grown adult decided they wanted someone who wasn't old enough to understand the manipulation tactics they would use. As a kid being told you're so mature and so smart for your age... Only to be used and controlled. I still struggle with it. There are days I unintentionally blame myself because that's what I'm so used to hearing around me. The author of this script should be ashamed and ridiculed for the narrative being pushed. A narrative that puts young children at risk.

[@brawler5760]

If this is propaganda to blame kids for acts of pedophilia, then it worked in riling people up.

[@FerreTrip]

I'm so sorry you had to go through with that. As you know, you are not to blame.

[@Torthrodhel]

@@brawler5760 sadly enough, if you read some of the horrible and alarming responses in some of these comment threads, it absolutely also succeeded in making those people feel societally welcome and morally justified. The people who should not feel welcome, nor justified, nor anything, because they should be executed wholesale for the good and safety of everyone else.

[@sj5687]

I'm so sorry you went through that, and continue to face the residual effects. I just wanted to say that you are so strong, and you're not alone

[@vacafuega]

Also a victim. If you ever get the chance to cut all the blamey people out of your life, I really really recommend trying out a blame-free life. It's so therapeutic and so freeing, and you deserve to feel free and clear about this. If you ever have the chance to give yourself that gift, I hope you do. Or any slice of it that is doable.

[@penn9128]

There’s a quote by Bonnie Burstow that I think encapsulates Nicole’s family dynamic so well: “Often father and daughter look down on mother (woman) together. They exchange meaningful glances when she misses a point. They agree that she is not bright as they are, cannot reason as they do. This collusion does not save the daughter from the mother’s fate.” Nicole believes herself to be on the level of her father, or at least close enough to understand his genius in a way her ‘dull’ mother could never. But in the end, no amount of adoration or perceived solidarity will change the fact that her father sees her the way he sees Rachel, as objects that are unflinchingly below him. And the worst part is, the game will have you believe the opposite, that your father sees you for the equal you want to be. That you are as brilliant and special to him as he makes you feel. That the ways in which he hurts you to your core, shatters your world and defiles everything you hold dear. That’s all out of love. I’m gonna be sick just typing it.

[@visassess8607]

What an absolutely ridiculous quote

[@penn9128]

@@visassess8607 I personally find it resonates with a lot of family situations I've seen, but I'm always open to hearing new perspectives! What about it do you find ridiculous?

[@arcadiaberger9204]

@@visassess8607 It's disturbing and appalling, it's reflective of a troubled mind, but why do you feel an urge to ridicule it?

[@mittag983]

@@visassess8607 More dynamics are like this I just thought about my aunt, uncle and my cousin when I read it

[@acejax4808]

@@visassess8607You type like someone who doesn’t know wtf they’re talking about

[@l.p.5703]

I would be horrified if I spent time playing this and got to that ending with there being no clear message about how all the characters are wrong for treating Rachel that way. Wow, what a mess.

[@MertKayKay]

Hahaha thank you LP, it was a wild ride of a game, hope you enjoyed the vid 😁

[@clarie4497]

Except she wasn't the only victim. Irving and Nichole were just as screwed over by the adults surrounding them. Also I really don't see how the message didn't get through? It's literally in your face when Nichole accepts that this terrible shit happens, y'know, before also losing her mind.

[@ShinyPrimarina]

@Baked potatos The fault doesn't lie with the people who are critiquing the game for handling a simple message so poorly, the problem lies with that story that did it. Why are you spinning it as "well if you don't understand that pedophilia is bad then you're the bad person" when no one said that. You're right, it IS a simple message -- which is why it's baffling that they fucked it up that bad in the story.

[@temp_unknown]

@Baked potatos You're assuming everyone has the same knowledge and experiences as you. There are people who've grown up being groomed by adults, only to find out in adulthood that what they considered 'normal' was in fact, not. Never assume.

[@Aurelius-bf3yx]

@Baked potatos its not a mater of teaching the player a lesson, its a matter of assuring the player that the world they devoted their time and effort and money to playing in is not condoning Pedophilia and rape

[@The4DRY4N]

at first i thought "oh these are some messed up themes i wonder what the game is gonna do with it" but TRYING TO JUSTIFY them was the last thing i expected. really gross great video btw

[@MertKayKay]

Thank you! :D

[@simaoa.2420]

yeah, I thought at first it was interesting because of the themes, like with Lolita, because it's rare to see these themes being written from the perspective of the abuser, but then I was "what the fuck???" when they started defending it

[@VampireBabysitter]

"Humbert doesn't want to manipulate or exploit, he has nothing to gain from telling this story." Actually, Humbert was on trial and the novel is his memoir. He's specifically addressing the jury (us the readers) with intent to manipulate us into giving him a "not guilty" verdict. He's on trial for murder because at 17, two years after she was checked out of the hospital, Dolores reached out asking for financial help. She was married and pregnant and very broke. He begs her to be with him again but she rejects him, wanting to stay with her husband. She also tells Humbert that she was previously in love with the guy who took her from the hospital but he rejected her after she refused to be in an "adult film". Humbert gives her money and then murders the man who took her.

[@isenokami7810]

Interesting. Glad to hear Humbert got what was coming to him (or at least was likely going to), but I’m a bit shocked to hear Delores’ rescuer was an @$$hole too. Throw the book at Humbert for the murder and more, but I have no sympathy for the guy he killed either.

[@hopoffmydick9574]

Yes thank you!!! That was bothering me a little bit lol

[@juhlsghouls]

This game seems like it was written by dudes who say “technically Lolita is not pedophilia it’s hebephilia”

[@MertKayKay]

Man I have had SO MANY OF THOSE IN HERE

[@lizanna6390]

That doesn't make it better

[@CursedCatTruffa]

Those kinde of comments are like a red flag to me idk but if you're concentrating on details maybe you're not seeing what's the true problem here and that's disturbing

[@dogouchu4356]

@@CursedCatTruffa true but in a way shines light on the disgustingness of such things. The difference matters in the story, a girl is found attractive and desired as a younger teen but when shes a few years older her abuser losses all interest. So concentrating on the details actually helps bring attention to how groomers see the victims because it does matter to them they always go for similarly aged targets.

[@frankfort332]

@@CursedCatTruffa nah maybe we should focus on the details so we know how to classify these monsters. Dude is a sexual predator, the author probably is too. But there are different definitions for a reason and I just find it dumb that using the proper word gets people labeled as pedos or sympathizers for... Using proper English? We still want to castrate them, we just care about the specifics of the language