The Most Efficient Car Ever Created? Mercedes EQXX

[@EngineeringExplained]

Many have asked about Aptera Motors, a car that's seeking maximum efficiency and using solar for added range (this EQXX also has solar, though only good for about ~2kWh per day, or about 25 km). I have a video on the Aptera solar math, seeing if it checks out! Here's the link: kzbin.info/www/bejne/bX2UkK2spsxqabM

[@oleedvardvaly1782]

As always, good video, but... what about the GM EV 1, and the Lightyear? The EQXX is NOT impressive when it comes to drag coefficient! EV 1 did it a lot better 25 years ago!

[@manitobasky]

Aptera is also not looking great after the launch edition event. No DCFC, enjoy charging at 6.6kW once your pack is depleted😮

[@EngineeringExplained]

@@oleedvardvaly1782 What? EV1 had a drag coefficient in the 0.19 range (this beats that).

[@wwecallofduty123]

@@manitobaskythat’s only for the launch edition they answered that in the questions at the end of the event

[@vylbird8014]

We can see the problem though. It does not, as you put it, 'look like a car.' There's no point making a more efficient car if it isn't going to sell, and not many people are going to buy a car that makes them look like a weirdo.

[@CarlWithACamera]

There is nobody with more charisma than an engineer explaining something complex in clear and concise detail. Guys like you should be out front more often; the world would run a lot better.

[@LutzTeichmann]

well said

[@EngineeringExplained]

Nerd stuff! 🙌

[@Sekir80]

@@EngineeringExplained Oh, I would love to put a heart on your comment, but only you can do that. Please, heart your comment. :D

[@BirdiesGoCherp]

Jason why are you commenting on your videos again?

[@slots675]

absolutely.

[@JerGol]

Props to MB for optimising at normal driving speeds and not going for the easy result at 25kph, for avoiding extremes of design, and for keeping it a sensible size for a car. That's some good design spec right there!

[@Speeder84XL]

I would say it's still quite slow - just 90-120 km/h for "highway driving" (not even 130, as the speed limit in big part of Europe). The test run in the example, also had an average speed of just 83 km/h on what mostly looks like highways. But, at least it was a normal car and not some specially build thing on bicycle wheels travelling at 40 km/h. It was at least tested and optimized at speeds where the aerodynamics comes to play. So that gives an idea how it would perform at higher speeds as well. But still, it would be nice to see some autobahn driving as well (which have been done with Tesla) - to show that it can keep good efficiency even at higher power outputs and that there isn't any issues with the batteries not get enough cooling, as some cars have.

[@martini380]

@@Speeder84XL Did you ever drive long routes with a car? You have to go like 180-190 to reach an average of 120 because of the parts where you go like 0-50

[@Speeder84XL]

@@martini380 Yes I do. Of course average speeds is highly dependent on traffic conditions and which roads there are are along the route. If it's country roads with lots of traffic where it passes thru cities at several places, 83 km/h average might be very good (almost unreachable) - but since this seemed to be mostly about highway driving, that was what I referred to. During low traffic conditions and mostly highway, I often get average speeds of of 125-140, even with a slow cars that top out at no more than 160-180 (and more with quicker cars) With more traffic and slow drivers in the passing lane, it get's harder to get good average speed of course, but the traffic need to be quite bad to not being able to get at least 110. Yes, "normal conditions" can be heavy traffic as well, but that will also introduce a huge amount of random variation. The 90-120 km/h marked on the graph, wouldn't be at all relevant in those conditions anyway - because the speed will vary widely as traffic congestions come and go. Especially for drivers like me, who like to push it when the passing lane do get free (even if it is just for short stretches), haha A huge amount of test would need to be done and averaged out to make that a meaningful test. The easiest is to do this, is when the disturbance from other traffic is low - so the driving can be done in a resonable predictable manner. If that was the case, an average of 83 is like crawling (for me at least), haha

[@JerGol]

@@Speeder84XL I'd agree with the other comment: on longer journeys I always plan to cover 80kms for an hour of travel and I can beat that sometimes but really not often. That's a decent average and indicates they weren't messing about at 45.

[@Hyrppa95]

@@Speeder84XL They did reach 140km/h on both trips tho

[@theodoreshasta7846]

One of the finest, most comprehensive presentations I have ever seen. You are setting the standard for all others.

[@EngineeringExplained]

So very kind, thank you!!

[@BrianTRice77]

I would really like to know how you keep track of the entire narrative in what seems to be such a long take! I’ve got an electric motorcycle streamlining kit that’s pushing Cd down from 0.6 to 0.3 and need to market and explain it. Maybe I’ll just ask you to cover my data when I’m okay publishing it! 😅

[@BrianTRice77]

I know the answer is a lot of editing, but I wonder whether you use a tablet or something with a script of the numbers you write in, or something like that.

[@sayingnigromakesyoutubecry2647]

@@BrianTRice77 looks like he did it all in one shot. I think his secret is doing the research on your own (you learn it) and then, having the board behind him can help him get on track

[@Hoonbernator1590]

@@BrianTRice77 Also practice! The man has been standing in front of whiteboards rattling off facts and smirks for many many years now.

[@garymallinson2292]

Just love the speedtail look, just part of what makes it so economical, beautifully impressive

[@MattBrownbill]

I thought it looks like a sucker fish swimming backwards. But taste is subjective.

[@poisonpotato1]

It definitely looks better than a prius

[@arvedludwig3584]

I wouldn't even have minded adding covers to the wheel housing. We had it before and "looking like a car" is just because of how design progressed and not an SI-unit.

[@Fawstah]

I think that is really smart to optimize for highway, since the only time an ev’s range typically matters is on roadtrips

[@tommydplayskeys]

Yep. I think they should optimise for winter too if possible. If it's uncomfortably hot in the summer, I'm happy to put the AC on and lose some range. I'd rather get through the winter without such a huge range cut.

[@CaptainRon1913]

@@tommydplayskeys With passive battery temp control, your biggest range cut will be winter. Lithium ion battery efficiency is cut in half or more in freezing or sub freezing temps. And in the Hot summer with the AC drawing power, you risk battery thermal problems. I'm sure the car will just shut down if the batteries get close to thermal runaway temps which will leave you stranded on the side of the road... That passive cooling is a very bad idea. Which is why Tesla doesn't do it. For every action there is a reaction. Nothing is free.

[@neutronpcxt372]

@@CaptainRon1913 No? Drawing power from the AC is basically nothing compared to motor power draw :P

[@johncarry5989]

What I find remarkable is that it actually looks like a nice car despite all the science. Apart from the skinny tires.

[@tomppeli.]

Honestly didn't even notice the tyres

[@EngineeringExplained]

Agreed! I think it looks better than the EQS, and yet it's more aerodynamic, not less! Admittedly, a bit less practical overall.

[@laylahassomethingtosay]

I'm really hoping they'll take this design language to market. The EQS is an incredible car, but it just looks like a shiny butter bean:P

[@questioner1596]

I don't think skinny tires look bad, I guess I see beauty in them fitting their use case.

[@billieguitar]

Disgusting and appauling, face looks like soggy bread. But I am a man too so I understand that some people are all about the backside.

[@randxalthor]

Love your whiteboard videos. It's always so educational and it's wonderful having sourced and cited hard numbers to understand the industry and which manufacturers are telling the truth.

[@EngineeringExplained]

Appreciate you watching!

[@arog7493]

I can not be the only one who would love to see the wheels covered for even more efficiency.

[@tarfeef101]

Right? I swear Audi did that with the concept car from I, Robot. And frankly we only like these current designs because we're used to them. Gimme more efficiency any day of the week pls. I care more about range, savings, etc than aesthetics I'm sure I'll get used to over time

[@legendaryblob8227]

@@tarfeef101 Yeah!, the RSQ had panels over them, so it ended up resembling a wheel and not being ugly!

[@kevinburke6743]

Citroen used to do it decades ago.

[@TheOriginalJAX]

Radical thought, I am pro covering the wheels on future productions cars. I don't care if does not look as cool, I like nice alloys sure but I also like my wallet. I would rather compromise on little things like that than have to make great sacrifices in other areas honestly like internal cabin volume to maintain a profile. Dude by the way you are by far one the most informative engineering channels going. your targeted approach to the subject and the way you break down fundamentals for demonstration purposes to make your point is a godsend honestly. Like iv used a lot of your work over the last few years as a baseline reference for research and projects and yeah you have saved me many headaches so thankyou.

[@aitorbleda8267]

That has several problems. First, suspended mass.. it will make a very rough ride. Second, damage to the tyres (ozone) and the electric motors from grit, vibration, etc.

[@TheOriginalJAX]

@@aitorbleda8267 I assume you are referring to covering the wheels? I would have thought the tyre would be better protected if the body is covering it. Also I know what ozone damage is and you resolve that by using improved tyre compounds but that is an atmospheric issue. Unless the tyre would be contacting the surface of the side cover creating static build up from the friction, but that is just incompetence and something you would not see on production cars and you don't on the rare occasions they cover wheels at all. as for the floating mass, unless its a panels with just a few flimsy fitting points this is a non issue unless you use a bad design of course but most just integrate it into the body as non removable. From what I can tell all these problems are a by product of carelessness, Covering wheels is nothing new and has been done plenty so unless you can give me real word example where this is actually a problem that has no straight forward solutions you just doing a what aboutism. Kind of perplexing, we still have 2cv's driving around and they are doing just fine.

[@orinocowomble]

@@TheOriginalJAX I wonder why they don't apply transparent wheel covers that would not turn the car into a penguin, especially on production cars when you have the choice and the engineering potential to do that. Of course they would need some nano/lotus coating on the inside to prevent a dirty penguin. Or any other problems with that? BTW would be an interesting EE subject how to improve the drag coefficient of electric production cars (with household materials) as this not only improves range and energy consumption, but increases battery lifetime (as explained in the video).

[@stal5861]

@Jax I agree, if covered wheel wells were an option, I would check that box. Like the old Citroëns, looks cool and improves efficiency.

[@TaylorPhase]

@@stal5861 look up the lightyear zero car. They actually have an option for wheel covers for extended range in their package

[@bearcubdaycare]

Thanks! Lovely walkthrough of the factors and what they achieved. My old Volt got about 15 kWh/100km, so this all seems plausible, but impressive.

[@EngineeringExplained]

Super kind, thanks!!

[@electrodacus]

That powertrain efficiency is extremely impressive.

[@MakeSteelBattalion2]

IT's because those numbers are overly optimistic and possibly unrealistic.

[@Neojhun]

Because it's not possible to operate in the real world. Good luck operating that anywhere warm.

[@matthiaswobken4509]

@@MakeSteelBattalion2 actually from battery to wheel while driving the first route it was 95%

[@FILIPINOTUNER]

If you think that's extremely impressive, my GSR swapped Civic dyno'd at 160whp when it was NA. Its engine is rated at 170bhp. That's an efficiency of 94.1%. At least speaking from the flywheel to the tires. Both engine and transmission had 170k miles and was 19 years old at the time.

[@electrodacus]

@@FILIPINOTUNER If you want to calculate the efficiency of a gasoline vehicle then you need to start with the fuel that has about 10kWh/liter. The power rating of your engine vs what you get out when performing a measurement is not efficiency. It will be an excellent result if that Civic is 25% efficient.

[@Ryanstuff]

I actually like partially covered rear wheels. I think it looks futuristic and I'm all about the efficiency it provides.

[@SecureLemons]

i too wouldnt mind exchanging looks for efficiency, but it would make it harder to take the tires off.

[@JamesSmith-dn8lb]

@@SecureLemons my insight has wheel covers and it's very easy to get off.

[@joshcobi]

Agreed, covered rear wheels are amazing

[@SecureLemons]

@@JamesSmith-dn8lb yeah, i suppose it's not that big of a hassle. seems efficiency hasn't become the biggest selling point, esp. since cars have become a bit of a status symbol

[@esaedvik]

Same, makes for a definite futuristic look. Just make caps or covered wheels available for those who want them.

[@locomotivebreath9364]

5:55 Rear wheel covers are cool and classy! CLASSY!

[@jonathancohen2506]

Another great video! Especially highlighting that future gains are minimal. This is a key teaching in engineering optimization and not always obvious to outsiders.

[@koeniglicher]

Future gains can be substancial, if you step back from the constraints they set themselves and that Jason repeated multiple times. The Acabion vehicle is a nice example. Or Twike vehicle. Or the VLC / Edison 2 (very light car) from XPrize 2010. Or Aptera.

[@CjqNslXUcM]

I'm impressed by the project and I love the adjusting diffuser. I have the feeling that they've done a lot to the underside of the car.

[@davidbeppler3032]

First speed bump and it is gone.

[@Ren_1106]

Speed Bump and hole on the ground is the biggest issue 🤣😂.

[@JohnDoe-vh4rt]

@@davidbeppler3032 that’s why the diffuser retracts when the car is not at highway speeds.

[@extragoode]

When I saw the diffuser my first thought was how cool that is. My second thought was great, more moving parts to break. My third thought was, that'll be cheap to fix on a Merc!

[@KF1]

You know how your doors stick when you wash your car in the winter? First cold weather car wash and that diffuser is going to be a pain in the rear

[@Alexandra-Rex]

But, and I am a bit surprised that you didn't answer this, how many F/KM does it take the penguin to move at highway speeds? (fish per kilometer).

[@ryoder]

And how long does it take to fill a penguin with fish at each refueling stop?

[@cerealspiller]

@@ryoder To say nothing of the well-known fish storage and fish transportation challenges :-)

[@pixelfairy]

What do you mean? An Arctic or antarctic penguin?

[@Alexandra-Rex]

@@pixelfairy There are no arctic penguins.

[@pixelfairy]

@@Alexandra-Rex guess that means I'm flying off the bridge. It was a joke. Monty Python reference.

[@MartijnterHaar]

Covered back wheels look great, just check your classic Citroëns: the DS, SM and CX (named after the French term for Cd). Mercedes just were afraid people would say their car looks like a Citroën again after a lot of people noticed how much the EQS looks likes the Citroën C6. I also remember the EQXX having experimental shock absorbers for extra efficiency? I am curious if the Lightyear Zero and Aptera can get close to the EQXX.

[@HarryBalsark]

Thank god opinions are different. There have been some low consumption concepts with covered wheels before. To me that is some really ugly design feature so i like how they kept this looking like a car.

[@alexandruianu8432]

Yeah, I wonder what "focus groups" told them people don't want covered rear wheels? Make a cool car like that and you create a new trend in design.

[@jimijamflimiflam6323]

@@alexandruianu8432 Or rather, reignite an old trend. I for one really like the look of the Nissan R89C

[@battosaijenkins946]

Whoa.. that rear looks like those 60s db james bond flare , dunno if thats gonna look good as time goes by~ 🤔🤔

[@rreagan007]

@@HarryBalsark They could probably just make rear-wheel covers optional for people who want the extra efficiency.

[@jonwilkinson3886]

It's so refreshing to have an informed and mathematically competent engineer explain the real world to the motoring public. Keep up the good work Jason.

[@kssmyth]

As a non practicing ME and car nut, I LOVE your videos. Well done. Keep up the great work! What a world we live in that you can make a living doing this. So great.

[@colegreene2153]

This is the type of analysis I love as an engineer. Nothing too advanced but all numbers that are easy to understand

[@imt4ng0]

From an Indian viewer. Loved your highly technical, accurate video. Thanks for pushing forward the SI units in your explanations. It soothes us all.

[@shiftfocus1]

It’s how we all know he really IS an engineer.

[@fidelcatsro6948]

Americans should go Metric!

[@musca8803]

You go deep combining engineering and physics but every step is very logical. The drawings are really helpful (and a distinctive sign!). Another exellent video.

[@Captain_Coleslaw]

I love the penguin comparison, it really puts into perspective how impressive cars are becoming in the effeciency aspect! I personally think the front of the EQS and the rear of the EQAA would be a fantastic looking mix!

[@epson552]

One of the best Videos about this car online 🙌

[@thomasautengruber8369]

I think wheel covers would actually suit it pretty well!

[@drippingwax]

It has flat wheel covers. They are mostly clear, but have circles in them for some reason. Mercedes couldn't make wheel skirts look good? :)

[@kevinrusch3627]

I mean, for 200mpg, you can put whatever you want on it and I'd be happy.

[@langedweil]

I'd say: spinners with flywheel function ! Fully chromed ofcourse ..

[@koeniglicher]

I agree, and FMPOV Lightyear Zero is a good example.

[@Ottobon]

Yeah i didn't understand where covering the rear wheels looks ugly according to Mercedes. Plenty of classic cars have it and if anything it can look excellent. Might be a right and wrong way of doing it but i would happily take a nicely shaped car with covered rear wheels to a penguin with its rear rims on display.

[@Knackebrot]

The EQXX is one of the few cars I get excited about nowdays, but it's a bummer that it doesn't have wheel covers and neither a significantly smaller frontal area compared to other sedans. Maybe another manufacturer will go the full length with a small 30kWh battery and 2 seater configuration though, how awesome would that be. Thanks for great explainations!

[@MrJohnJuarez]

The Aptera is what you're looking for

[@shyam163]

aptera , it looks more like a penguin though.

[@Mgoblagulkablong]

APTERA exists

[@Maarten_vd]

This car is not a production model. It's far too expensive. It has bike tyres and absolutely not the safety ratings all other cars (must) have. All to try to achieve the maximum efficiency. It even uses alumium disk brakes. These cannot cope with heat stress as normal brakes can but for a show model or concept car it's fine.

[@michelbruns]

It doenst excite me at all tbh since its basically on of those fancy "concpets"

[@isaiah123456wp7]

I really hope that one day it becomes feasible to create cars like these en-masse. I would love to have a car that efficient. Given I could afford it of course 😅

[@F_wan]

Look at it this way: it took the best part of a century to get purely ICE cars somewhat efficient. The real study into electric cars barely started 20 years ago, and look at this thing. Sure, battery stuff will improve a lot more, but the rest is damn near at the limits of the laws of physics.

[@ElPants21]

Battery mineral scarcity and ethics are a more serious concern at the moment. (Not to mention power grid concerns) once we're past the need for so much lithium and cobalt, and economies of scale kick in, it's game on

[@Rwdphotos]

and we really need them, yesterday. oh well

[@skierpage]

@@ElPants21 those "concerns" are endless hyped by fossil fuel companies to distract people from the multiple orders-of-magnitude worsening harms from mining than burning billions of tons of dirty fossil fuel. There's no question that an EV powered by the current grid is better for the environment overall than a gasser. But sure, keep on bringing up spurious objections that are just weak excuses for continuing to burn fossil fuel for land transportation.

[@joldsaway3489]

@@skierpage All of that goes out the window however when you consider that Natural Gas can be renewably created with a near net-zero carbon footprint using the Sabatier process via clean electricity sources, and in the long term would be betterfor the environment and provide better power density than lithium in the first place

[@terrymontague7946]

Thanks for taking the time and effort to produce such an interesting video. Personally I really like the look of the car and its great to see one of the oldest car manufacturers leading the way in EV development.

[@fortheloveofnoise]

THE oldest...not "one of".

[@photohounds]

THE oldest - 1886!

[@pramathdsbdxbxh]

They are leading the way... In loss of brand loyalty. Of all large car producers (not just EVs, but ICE too!) they have the lowest loyalty rate for 2nd car purchase. They are also one of the most expensive cars to maintain as a % of sticker price. Of course tesla leads the way in both of these metrics.

[@MatrixRage]

I learn so much in each of these videos on what the math is representing. And that’s kind of the starting point to understanding…knowing what you don’t know. What factors are at play, before the equations. That is such a huge unspoken thing

[@pascalbissig8804]

An analysis like this on @ApteraMotors would be interesting to me. I don't mind driving a penguin. Are the claims on solar range realistic? Would solar bring meaningful daily charge on this Mercedes?

[@ericbaker8807]

I believe he has a video on the topic doesn't he? Edit: apologies. After searching it appears he has a video on solar cars, not necessarily specifically about Aptera.

[@sylvainlaurin1012]

Aptera drag coefficient is 0,13. It needs 6,2 kWh/100 km. So this «car» can run up to 1,600 km with its 100 kWh battery. Plus, the Aptera has solar cells !!!

[@N0Xa880iUL]

@@sylvainlaurin1012 so basically as a daily driver it almost doesn't need to be charged!

[@mcspikesky]

Aptera while promising kinda seems like a scam.. they've been so close for so long

[@MDF4072]

there is a chance that their cars wont be made since they have shutdowns because of financial problems lol

[@snailer06]

I'm buying a Penguin-shaped Aptera as soon as they're produced. I LIKE the fact it doesn't look like a car. Drag coefficient of .12 Thanks for this very informative video!

[@MistSoalar]

This. I love that 0.13Cd penguin and thinking of wrapping penguin color theme. Can't wait that to go in production.

[@Cloxxki]

My windless albatros car is going to shame your slow plunky swimmer's body. It's about air drag, not a sail race! :-D

[@snailer06]

@@Cloxxki you mean "wingless"?

[@skierpage]

Great, but you're in a small minority. The car is a 7 ft wide two-seater tricycle. Far more households would be happier with a normal EV car and a cargo e-bike as their second vehicle.

[@snailer06]

@@skierpage "Great, but you're in a small minority. " story of my life, brother, but I fit this vehicle to a T.

[@lucianbakerii7562]

On par with MB EQXX demo show car, the Aptera coming to production, at delta design stage now, boasts aerodynamic Cd of 0.13 and about 100W*hour per mile for a car in $26 to 35k range. Or about 6.5kW*hour per 100km. I really hope Aptera gets into production.

[@beanapprentice1687]

It’s not a car though

[@lucianbakerii7562]

For better or for worse..... You choose. ;)

[@randygreen7871]

Wow, absolutely incredible what Mercedes has done! Amazing video, thank you for producing this and showing me my next new car!

[@feetup-jf7kq]

Concise no BS explanation of how each of the factors affect the efficiency outcome. Interesting that we’re almost at practical efficiency limits and I was not aware Mercedes had done this. Im in Australia with long travel distances and very limited and generally slow charging infrastructure. I drive a 2021 SR+ model 3 as it has ok range of 400km and is efficient (it’s done 135 Wh/km average over 19000km driven). People still think they need large battery packs but i find the smaller 55kW battery charges at a reasonable rate. In any case as ev owners know, most charging done at home.

[@rohithnaik123]

Absolutely loved this no nonsense explanation of reaching the limit of electric car efficiency. I think you forgot to mention the main area where improvements can yield massive results to range - battery technology. If we can improve batteries to be twice as energy dense, then we can go twice as long.

[@EngineeringExplained]

Yes, the video is about consumption, so the battery pack size isn't really relevant in this calculation. (~8 kWh per 100 km being the limit, with the size of your pack determining how far you go).

[@petesmitt]

Battery technology is going the other way with energy density; LFP batteries are worse than NMC.

[@Lukethetiger]

Amazing video! Really enjoyed watching it and you going over all the numbers in so much detail

[@primoroy]

Covered rear wheels were a fashion statement in the 1950s. Maybe I'm old, but they don't look ugly (except on a Caprice or Taurus jellybean design)! 😜

[@ericspeltier]

I'm probably not ever a new car MB buyer, but I DO love and respect that MB is working on this.

[@halo3dg]

The drag coefficient of the penguin being brought up made me laugh and every time it was mentioned afterwards just made me laugh harder! Love the small things like this haha

[@manulovesjesus]

Thats because penguins actually have the most aerodynamic shape in nature known to us. (Cw of 0.03)

[@chrisc1140]

This kind of efficiency is really awesome! But while it probably doesn't matter for the kinds of people that will actually be buying this, but I still think active cooling would be much better for lifespan than just the lower charge cycles will give you. It'll probably be fine in a colder environment, but anywhere hot I imagine it'll degrade more than typical.

[@RogerM88]

I actually like the battery thermal management system from the EQXX not requiring a coolant fluid. Many premature failures in battery packs, are related to the cooling system leaking or clogging and leaking inside the battery Cells.

[@N0Xa880iUL]

Good point.

[@ezilka]

Should be there in this case some marilyn monroe type fans in the pavement near charging to blow some heat off :)

[@crxtodd16]

I wonder how much those traditional liquid cooling systems weigh? ~1750 kg is pretty dang good for an EV that packs a 100Kwh battery! I assume there is some weight savings by switching to a passive cooling system.. Pretty neat.

[@MrArcticPOWER]

It kind of goes against the whole purpose of building an efficient car though since your charging speed is extremely limited. People want lots of range for long trips, but if it takes 2 or 3 times longer to charge it, then the entire trip ends up taking more time. They built this car to be the most efficient as possible on a single charge, but in the real world the battery would likely overheat extremely quickly under high acceleration and deceleration.

[@N0Xa880iUL]

@@MrArcticPOWER You are kinda right but I must say those are edge cases. Definitely not most people or trips. Not much you can't cover on a 1000km range in a single day of driving. So charge overnight/ when sleeping. You'll have to push yourself far more than the car itself for it to cause major delays in a trip compared to fast charging cars.

[@fieldlab4]

The EV1 looked great with covered wheels IMO. If they can have a movable rear diffuser, they can have moveable or clear plastic rear wheel covers.

[@avsystem3142]

I don't know if people would like covered rear wheels but they have been used on autos since the 1930's. Personally, I would favor the improved CD of having wheel covers over any concern about esthetics.

[@d.p.2680]

I actually like the look of efficiency, both covered wheels, rear wheel skirts and long tails, it's the look of the future

[@22trident45]

Jason, you present the topics so well that even a thick-headed person like me. Thanks as always.

[@charanteja200]

Such an insightful information in the current level of tech about e-cars. Can't wait to see what Tesla will be doing in the next couple of years when EQXX would be in production. Thanks for using kw/km than kw/miles.

[@DxCBuG]

Thank you for keeping this in kwh / 100 kilometers. MPG is hard enough to understand from an EU perspective but equivalents makes it even harder :D

[@adrianthoroughgood1191]

I'm used to miles /kWh for EVs.

[@ciclotronforever]

It was funny to listen to this video while working on my Citroen Dyane with it's covered rear wheels, small frontal area (1.4m wide) and it's 650kg ! We were used to see this car as small but practical back in the 70's in France... Just think of what we could achieve with these numbers and 2022 technology !

[@matthewhodges5910]

But... How successful was the Citroen Dyane at selling? Pure efficiency doesn't get many peoples rocks off esp. if it is not attractive.

[@ciclotronforever]

@@matthewhodges5910 The 2cv sold by millions, but the times were different. And yes, great engineering doesn't mean attractive !

[@NONO-hz4vo]

Another huge downside for me on those older cars is the safety. Modern cars are incredible with how well they protect the passengers. Not to mention its 125-380 tires providing almost zero traction for braking in the wet. I don't see manufacturers being able to produce a 600kg car with the modern safety standards being met and still being anywhere near the comfort of a modern sedan.

[@ciclotronforever]

@@NONO-hz4vo You are totally right ! But materials and techniques have evolved too, I think if we sacrifice "comfort" (every person have it's own feeling about comfort, for me the Dyane is way more comfortable than many recent cars, but I admit that this is my point of view) we can still make a usable and safe enough 600kg. It's a question of will and money...

[@marcwaddell6162]

I learn so much from this guy. For a car guy, this is a great engineering thread.

[@214BIgl]

Not just a video with numbers, but those numbers and your insight gave great tid bits of nerd information, I love it!

[@stiftungwarentest9636]

4:47 And that's why I ask myself why we haven't been driving penguins for a long time.... By the way, a very interesting topic, very well explained - please keep it up!

[@bruncebanani8854]

The lightyear Zero has got covered rear wheels, and I think it still looks even better than the Mercedes. I really want to see an efficiency-race in the near future, instead of the range-rce, that we have seen in electric vehicles so far.

[@skierpage]

Efficiency is a big part of solar races, but the resulting barn door on bicycle wheels with a tiny bubble for the driver's head isn't very practical. Maybe give every contestant the identical battery and challenge them to make the most of it. Formula E could become that; currently the powertrain and chassis are standardized as well as the battery. Just fix the battery and allow six-wheeled cars, all kinds of adjusting aerodynamics, etc.

[@vic321344]

Lightyear Zero is bancrupt. Maximum efficiency costs horrendous money, It is not the solution. Cars have to be affordable, safe and practical to use. Not just be efficient.

[@bruncebanani8854]

@@vic321344 While this is really sad news: did you count the number of automotive companies that went bust over the past 20 years, without the focus on maximum efficiency? I can't see the correlation. Not too long ago, "safety" cost horrendous money and people thought they didn't need it. Well, guess what happend. ;) Even the cheapest of cars now have proper crash elements, airbags, electronic stability control, anti lock brakes etc. The same could (and probably will at some point) happen to efficiency.

[@vic321344]

@@bruncebanani8854 So how many car companies were there? I do not know a lot which have even reached beyond a prototype. And these are just DIY shacks, no car manufacturers.

[@heyhayhay247]

Deployable/active wheel covers would definitely be interesting. It would look good when sitting still and more efficient at speed.

[@mriguy3202]

and why not make them clear?

[@dhruvdevc]

More moving parts means more weight

[@heyhayhay247]

@@dhruvdevc 2kg of plastic would be entirely inconsequential even of it didn't dramatically reduce the aerodynamic drag at speed, which Mercedes themselves said they would.

[@Sundara229]

@@heyhayhay247 I could imagine that this has been considered, but rejected for whatever reason. Still, would be interested to see how much of a difference it would make.

[@Version135]

Just throw it away after you drive on a dirt road once!

[@TaylorPhase]

i have a hyundai ioniq hybird blue. ive been eco modding it for better aero and mpg. ive gotten it to 70mpg, but that involves rear wheel covers and side mirror removal. ill be doing a smooth under floor and rear diffuser or box cavity and wheel flairings later in spring

[@devanshshah7011]

I have a 2020 ioniq blue too. Gets 65-70 on highways & 75 city. Last lane driving at abt 50-55 tho & active pedal control on slopes. Doesn’t make much of a difference to me & keeps my mind active while driving lol. 55k miles on it. Going with 0 probs ;) Same with my old Elantra.

[@ninobatistamusic]

Best car channel on KZbin, as always. Great analysis.

[@freescape08]

I really hope something like this or the xl1 comes out in ~15 years when I could feasibly have saved up for it.

[@fidelcatsro6948]

by then we will be using anti gravity technology on reducing drag..Aliens will sharing their UFO secrets with us openly by then..

[@jameshaulenbeek5931]

I was always surprised by my 91 civic with it's 1.5L engine getting over 60mpg on the highway, and still being fun to drive. And all that took was changing the air intake around a little - the factory air box on those, as well as the intake plenum, had some major restrictions.

[@arickbakken]

As EVs get widely adopted and less gasoline cars are in production, I've wondered if manufacturers will go back to the early 90s simpler car designs to offer an uber affordable, simple gas car for the huge number of folks needing to get from A-to-B on a budget. I don't see why this wouldn't work. I'm talking crank down windows, key-based door locks, just 2 front airbags, manual HVAC controls, all the stuff like that.

[@petercampbell662]

@@arickbakken I don’t think those creature comforts hurt the fuel economy as badly as all the safety standard stuff that all cars have to conform to these days, prohibiting us from going back to the insane fuel economy of 90’s Japanese cars.

[@ikbendusan]

your 91 civic does not get 60 mpg

[@jameshaulenbeek5931]

@@ikbendusan it most certainly did. Most Hondas and Toyotas from that time with 1.5L engines (or smaller) could get 60. The people who really worked for high fuel economy were getting in the 70's to about 80 mpg on the highway. 60 was easy, at 70mph or slower.

[@ikbendusan]

@@jameshaulenbeek5931 mate my fiesta AT BEST will do 13 km per litre. my sisters 1.0 ecoboost does 18 km per litre AT BEST. you're going to tell me a less aerodynamic car with a larger displacement from the early 90s will do 26 to 30 km per litre? we would all be driving 91 civics if that was the case. i don't believe you

[@Surestick88]

It would be interesting to see a comparison of numbers between the EQxx (EQXX? EQxx? anyway, whatever, you know what I mean) and the Aptera which seems to have similar design goals to the Mercedes. That said, what I've learned today is I could significantly reduce my carbon footprint by sending a penguin to work in my place and staying at home. Good to know!

[@GrantOakes]

I wonder what a penguin could do it they put a MB EV motor and battery pack on it!

[@NONO-hz4vo]

"That said, what I've learned today is I could significantly reduce my carbon footprint by sending a penguin to work in my place and staying at home. Good to know!" Sounds like a win win, you get the efficiency gains in transportation doubled with the efficiency gains in work productivity. Just occurred to me the penguin is also probably using Linux so you don't even have to buy an OS for his computer!

[@jamie-ck6js]

This was such a great presentation. It was so clear in the way you presented it as: these are close to the limits while still keeping it looking like a car.

[@Ataraxia_Atom]

I wasn't super fond of the look at the vehicle, but after learning more about the engineering behind it, I'm really impressed with what Mercedes is doing

[@matthewboyd8689]

Can you look at Aptera next? They go 1000 miles (not kilometers) 1.6 times further (100 kilowatt hours)

[@vic321344]

No, they dont. there is no Aptera existent that goes 1000 miles.

[@matthewboyd8689]

@@vic321344 250, 400, 600, and 1000 miles are their range options The most efficient electric vehicle, 100 kWh battery, 10 miles per kilowatt hour. It checks out.

[@vic321344]

@@matthewboyd8689 There only exists a 400 Mile prototype. Others have never been built.

[@matthewboyd8689]

@@vic321344 ah yes true. But it's still more efficient by a lot, and it is in the works.

[@vic321344]

@@matthewboyd8689 A lot of the promised things at Aptera are "still in the works". Aptera is great in selling phantasies as reality. And in selling renderings as produced vehicles.

[@easterislehead]

When it comes to efficient EVs it’s Aptera or bust

[@blackstripes3523]

I am a tad surprised they have the automatic rear diffuser and not an automatic back wheels cover. So, as Jason say, it would like a car when parked or going slow :)

[@extragoode]

If they don't cover the wheels there's still room to modify them if you don't mind looking weird. As low as that Cd is adding skirts may give you another 100km!

[@alexdevries9885]

Hi Jason, I really like these whiteboard sessions. (but I also have a heart of an engineer). Keep up doing this !

[@a.u.r.i482]

Great video! The only question that comes up for me is: Why didn't they use a camera system instead of the mirrors like the Audi e-tron? They have massive screens in there anyway and I believe it wouldn't be too expensive to switch to a camera system. I believe these could be integrated almost flush with the front fenders like a dropshaped bump sticking out. That could reduce the frontal area quite significantly - not even talking about the induced drag, mirrors like that produce.

[@mjerez6029]

Are you planing to do anything similar about Aptera? Think their claims are a bit to much smoke although still the best in class!

[@EngineeringExplained]

This video breaks down their numbers: kzbin.info/www/bejne/bX2UkK2spsxqabM

[@baronvonlimbourgh1716]

It looks amazing, i'd buy one if it was priced normally.

[@petesmitt]

definition of 'priced normally'.. what you can afford? get a bike..

[@jb678901]

Reminds me of a Mercedes diesel-powered concept car from the 1980's that set a 24 hour endurance record.

[@Nordlicht05]

Many manufacturers did similar things. I remember Subaru did this with a gasoline turbo legacy. Ithink they drove straight 18 days with 24 drivers. 100.000km full throttle over 200kph what the lagacy turbo was capable of.

[@krakhedd]

I can't even imagine how badass the electric cars of the near future, 10-20 years, will be, now that major manufacturers are picking up and considering how far we've come in batteries, motors, magnets, materials, supply chains, economics, general technology, etc, in the past 20 years

[@deanrim7149]

Great video! I ran into you at CES for a second!!! Was an honor to meet you in person!

[@solokalnesaltam3015]

Thoughts on Aptera? I'm assuming if you find the EQS bearly a car Aptera must really look off lol

[@gschweiger]

It's almost a penguin.

[@alexandruianu8432]

@Diesel Techie The Aptera would be a car in many jurisdictions. What matters is the purchase cost though, and the Aptera is cheaper than the EQXX.

[@DerrickMoy]

It'll be cool to see more cars like this. The Aptera although not something in mass production would be cool to see a comparison at highway speeds. Obviously, that really doesn't look like a car and has in wheel motors 🤔.13 drag coefficient though.

[@vic321344]

Aptera is a motorcycle, not a car. So it does not make any sense to compare it to a real car.

[@Flyingwigs]

@@vic321344 it's an autocycle, no helmets or motorcycle license required.

[@vic321344]

@@Flyingwigs An autocycle is a motorcycle with 3 wheels (no sidecar). An autocycle does not have to confirm to the safety regulations necessary for a car, so it can be built much cheaper. And in some legislations a helmet IS needed. See Aptera Homepage. GENERAL ASSEMBLY OF NORTH CAROLINA SESSION 2015 HOUSE BILL 6 RATIFIED BILL H6-v-3 AN ACT TO DEFINE AND REGULATE AUTOCYCLES. "Passenger Vehicles. - a. Autocycle. - A three-wheeled motorcycle that has a steering wheel, pedals, seat safety belts for each occupant, antilock brakes, air bag protection, completely enclosed seating that does not require the operator to straddle or sit astride, and is otherwise manufactured to comply with federal safety requirements for motorcycles. a.a1. Excursion passenger vehicles. - Vehicles transporting persons on sight-seeing or travel tours. … d. Motorcycles. - Vehicles having a saddle for the use of the rider and designed to travel on not more than three wheels in contact with the ground, including motor scooters, autocycles, motor scooters, and motor-driven bicycles, but excluding tractors and utility vehicles equipped with an additional form of device designed to transport property, three-wheeled vehicles while being used by law-enforcement agencies and mopeds as defined in subdivision d1 of this subsection." You can make up your own definitions, but they have no legal meaning.

[@Anjum48]

I've always been a petrol head and loved this channel for this. But now I'm a happy EV owner I'm loving seeing this channel pivot in the same direction

[@00SNIVY00]

Love your videos, I wish more people watched them, they're incredibly informative with a lot of useful information!

[@Henrix1998]

If I had this car I would totally cover the rear wheels

[@flizndfor]

Well done 👍🏻 Do you remember the Volkswagen XL1? Diesel hybrid, launched almost 10 years ago. Sold for insane prices but basically had the same energy consumption.

[@steve-fb1bm]

We should be driving peguins 😂

[@YourCitizen]

Probably one of the coolest videos I've ever seen on KZbin

[@MrBassbump]

Thank you for explaining this to us. I’m glad to see a manufacturer looking at efficiency to decrease energy consumption on a street car. I believe Boeing is looking into a new wing design for their airliners. You should take a look.

[@HearnAutomotiveReDesign]

Great video, tons of good info. Would you be willing to do an extended cut of this adding in data/calculations from the vehicles charging efficiency side (could include different power sources as well like charging in areas using solar/wind vs areas using coal as well as different charging rate levels up to there max ability) to determine an overall turn-around efficiency for this vehicles/its drivetrain? This could paint an even more clear picture of this vehicles energy usage over its life time

[@rcpmac]

I believe he covered multiple fuel sources of electricity in a previous video

[@robertpsotka3525]

When it goes into production only 2% of the population can afford this

[@ALMX5DP]

Not sure it’s going into production and 2% would likely be generous if it did.

[@eniff2925]

more like 0,1%

[@simonm1447]

@@ALMX5DP it seems they start producing it in 2024, but of course with a 100k $/€ + price tag

[@ALMX5DP]

@@simonm1447 the latest articles I’ve seen just suggest some of the technology will be showcased in production cars, not this car itself. A December article mentioned the closest thing will be an entry level EQA sedan.

[@LordandGodofYouTube]

@@ALMX5DP it's not a concept, It's going into production, available next year.

[@N0Xa880iUL]

Excellent futuristic car. But now imagine what city cars with city speeds can do. I really want to know. Because that's a car I'd really want. Such a use case could easily achieve below 8 kWh/100km with advancements. Tata Tiago EV in India has a claimed range of 250km on a 19.2kwh battery pack. That's already at 8kwh/100km. And it's available for $10k USD.

[@AIRDRAC]

I think this goes back to his point about cars that "we" (in the context, presumably Americans) want to drive. The Citröen Ami also boasts a

[@N0Xa880iUL]

@@AIRDRAC You're right.

[@mtzeee5406]

thanks for your brilliant presentation! I love the technology and engineering that's used in that EV

[@TheJohdu]

this might be your best video yet

[@LV4TD101]

Isn't the Aptera the most efficient car ever made? Its drag coefficient is only 0.13

[@baronvonlimbourgh1716]

What is it for this car?

[@ALMX5DP]

Maybe they don’t have a finished vehicle to show? One article from late last year still referred to that Cd as simply what was claimed (ie not verified?).

[@hectoraccented5312]

I'm very skeptical of that 0.13 being achievable on temperate to hot climates. Edit: oh nevermind, that doesn't look like a car, it does look somewhat penguini

[@simonm1447]

It depends on what you define as a car. The Aptera offers a better cd than the EQXX, but it's more designed like an aircraft on wheels

[@ALMX5DP]

@@simonm1447 I consider a car to be whatever a government or sanctioning body considers it as (ie road legal, requiring a normal license to operate etc).

[@izerrandom12]

The vehicle to compare this Mercedes to is the LightyearOne ...One having been changed to 0 (zero) recently. Great presentation!

[@Niraloks]

I love that it still looks beautiful. Amazing video!

[@bc-guy852]

I'm interested in the topic so this was great. But I think you're a phenomenal instructor and with your techniques and manner - could teach any concept! Brilliant. An easy subscription with notifications on.

[@Lurkzz]

That car is beautiful really, perfect combination of old smooth forms and futuristic details

[@freekhoekstra4763]

I just want them to make this car. its absolutely gorgeous, the idea of getting 1000 KM in a charge sounds awesome. I'd happily pay through the nose for it. absolute stunning piece of engineering.

[@NONO-hz4vo]

The 1000km is huge. For most locations that is about a 10hr drive and more than 99% of people will drive even on a vacation. This means no stopping mid trip to charge. As long as you can stay somewhere that has a charging station you are removing any inconvenience of having an EV with the benefit of not having to stop for gas or pay for higher cost per mile energy source.

[@thomaspaaruppedersen6781]

I wish you had commented on the genius move of making the car light and not accelerating very hard (low-power motor for a Mercedes EV), keeping the maximum power draw from the battery down. This allowed to scrap the cooling system (liquid temperature management system), again allowing stacking the cells closer together and fitting a 100 kWh battery in a smaller car than we're used to.

[@martialme84]

What a fantastic video! Thanks for going through all the trouble of making this for us!

[@David-yx5vx]

Seeing this car at work every now and then. Really like the looks in person:D

[@jre211185]

Really good breakdown. Absolutely love the design and features of this car.

[@Rollin8.0]

I want to buy one of these just because it looks incredible, the fact is efficient is just a bonus.

[@lucagasparini5476]

it drove anyway 1209km with a single charge,to be precise (755.6 miles).We made the batteries here at AMG in Brixwoth,and it came by our facility in occasion of the Goodwood festival,driving on regular roads from Germany

[@Lemau]

This is such an epic achievement! I'm hoping to see the implementation of NaS batteries to give that efficiency another boost, but with what we've got, that's beyond awesome!

[@bensimonjoules4402]

So it is all up to batteries to improve now. It has always been but hitting realistic limits it really is all up to new battery technology. Very intresting vid and very clear. Congrats!

[@KingLarbear]

I'm not going to lie, I can't wait to see how engineers press these engines and batteries to see how far they can go. If they can get a car to 100 mpg that would be wild

[@iowa_don]

7:51 - 7:54 - It is interesting that the EQS windshield is laid back more than the EQXX. One would think that would be better for drag to lay it back further. The 2023 Prius similarly to the EQS has a windshield which is nearly an extension of the hood line.

[@billyngetich1883]

U r a very good educator and informer. I just wish many lecturers at uni were like this. Students r human beings not databases being loaded with data understanding goes both ways.