The Most Hated Character In Persona

[@nerogoro]

Who do you guys think is the most annoying character in Persona?

[@hyperten5906]

morgana

[@wasopdenyer]

@@nerogoro morgana

[@WaterEater1997]

Teddie

[@julioomega96]

Mishima.

[@ShadowOfMassDestruction]

@@nerogoro Rise. I only say this because Chie is my Queen and I really don't need some privileged idol girl swarming around like a bee but other than that her character is fine.

[@LoneWolf-on8ht]

As annoying and condescending this simp he occasionally made throughout the game, he at least did not involved in the worst moment that would make him complete hateable: Beating up the living crap on Ryuji after finishing up Shido's palace

[@charlescaulkins8306]

The entire Phantom Thieves group kinda suck IMO. They aren't as endearing as SEES of the Investigation Team because they are teens angry at the system (which admittedly IS very bad). And I will always be annoyed how Royal hamfisted events with Yoshizawa even when not doing her confidant link. All to make us believe she's "the one" for Joker when she doesn't even join the team until the bonus segment post-game.

[@Loner098]

It's one thing to beat Ryuji up (remember, Ryuji is technically a victim of physical abuse by his father and Kamoshida), but you really got another thing coming when his friends just leave him unconscious when there are also mostly guards outside. And Joker, who knows how much of a bro Ryuji is to him, walking away just feels really out-of-character.

[@p3mcthedoor32]

@@charlescaulkins8306 My biggest problem with them is that they're stupid for a team that should lay low. Everyone may point out Ryuji saying their group out loud in public but for starters, they have a group chat saved in their phones so if they get confiscated, they're cooked. Morgana exposed themselves to Haru because he wanted to satisfy his ego that time. And how they choose Leblanc as their hideout of all places not to mention Joker somehow didn't notice any CCTVs in it (this is how Futaba discovered them) is pretty baffling.

[@aaron75fy]

oh ffs his stupidity had ME want to kick Ryujis ass

[@TheLostSheep578]

​@@p3mcthedoor32he didn't expose them to Haru to satisfy his ego though? He got recked in the palace, Haru found him and awakened to her Persona and tgen they worked together. Then yeah he wanted to show up the rest of the gang to prove he isn't useless but he didn't expose them to haru to satisfy his ego.

[@izzy1356]

Admittedly I don't really care much for Morgana as a character... But I think a lot of the issues he has can be boiled down to the writers not knowing what to even do with him. He's the mentor figure. Until he's not. He's the support. Until he's not. He's the navigator. Until he's not. Ryuji's not simping? Here comes Morgana. Ryuji's not being brash for once, and we need conflict to spice things up? Morgana fills in temporarily and acts like a bratty kid. We need someone serious to tell everyone to calm down? Who needs Yusuke or Makoto, we got Morgana. We need a planner for Phantom Thief heists? Futaba's got it covered. We need a partner for Joker to talk with in Third Semester? Morgana who? We have Akechi at home. He's constantly flip-flopping as a character for the sake of staying relevant, even his manner of speaking is hard to pin down. Some times he sounds like Yusuke or Makoto, others he sounds like Ryuji and Third Sem Akechi, etcetera. And I think a lot of people pick up on that, but it's hard to actually *notice* unless you lay it all out like this. So the easiest example to showcase is the Okumura Arc (and even then, people focus more on Morgana being a prick, and not that Morgana's *always* had this relevancy issue and this is just the most glaring one).

[@Seol2797]

Yeah, it bothers me that nobody really pays attention to the cutscenes where morgana is bottling feeling useless and insecure up for months on end the moment more and more thieves join with talents he has. (Makoto and Futaba especially.), thus justifying his outrage a little bit when he eventually lets all those emotions out.

[@ShadowOfMassDestruction]

@@Seol2797 The problem that I had with both Ryuji and Morgana in the Okumura arc is that when the arc turned over they started insulting each other out of nowhere in order to set up this "development" of their characters even though all it served to do is make them look dumb for a while in a very cartoony Loud House way and reset the team back to how it already was before the arc started.

[@aaron75fy]

that's the point of his character and how things fall apart, the insecurities he felt as he slowly gets less important as he starts to let Ryuji's verbal jabs get to him

[@fenixchief7]

​@@aaron75fy thanks for saying it, thought I was gonna have to. I dont understand how people fail to grasp that concept.

[@fenixchief7]

​@@ShadowOfMassDestruction what are you even talking about? They been sniping eachother since pretty much the beginning. The Okumura arc is the natural climax of something they had been building up all game. Not just with Ryuji and Morgana's adversarial relationship but also Morgana's overall insecurities about his abilities, his role in the gang and his actual identity. The arc is integral to his character growth. You always have the most dead behind the eyes takes in this fandom. It's fucking absurd.

[@Zackylo_D_Mofo]

I feel really weird about my opinions ngl. Tbh, I don't really, nor ever have disliked either Teddie or Morgana. I think I just have a tendency to not hate on the characters people find annoying.

[@ShadowOfMassDestruction]

Same here

[@MixingMagic09]

Agreed

[@motherplayer]

Annoying is subjective at times. Usually whats annoying to one isn't all that bad to another. I know that feeling too, rarely on the boat of finding most annoying things annoying.

[@topfranluis1]

Teddie is a pedophile though…

[@alextoygamer14]

I didn't think Morgana was a hated character!? I thought he was one of the most liked characters in the game... I mean he's my 2nd favorite character right under akechi and Joker is 3rd and Ryuji is 4th

[@maverick5169]

The hate towards Morgana comes from many things that became more than the sum of their parts As you said, the most apparent thing is that nobody cares about the constant insults Morgana throws at Ryuji but the moment Ryuji says something, the game itself wants to shove in our throat the fact that he is in the wrong, deciding things for us. The game wants us to think Morgana is so important that we cannot do anything without him, seriously, when he is gone the player can't visit the city or the dungeons. If the game simply said "continue your adventure without him for a while", the whole thing would have been much more bearable, hell it would have been cool to have slower and more dangerous mementos explorations with the gang organically realizing that yes, Morgana was useful. But nooooooo, I cannot play the game without the whiny cat, he is THAT important and the game already decided he is in the right. And his other dialogue? It's incredibly repetitive. The very first thing he says in Strikers is him drooling over Ann, the first timed sidequest in Strikers is long, annoying and of course, it's him simping for Ann. Yes game I get it, he likes Ann, shut up. And no, that one scene where he agrees with Ryuji about Sophia isn't enough for making me think "wow they really are friends", because he has been an abusive, one-track minded hypocrite for 100+ hours in the original game. He also suffers from being the worst character in the game, a weakling like him should really stop talking cr4p when everyone else is miles better than him

[@MilkEnjoyer2]

that argument of "oh the game wants you to feel hes important so you cant do anything haha" is incredibly dumb imo, the characters are supposed to be humans, morgana is one of the phantom thieves so he is important to them, specially to joker who stays with him all the time, you cant just expect them to act "oh morgana is gone and potentially in danger, well who cares lets just keep going like normal lol"

[@maverick5169]

@MilkEnjoyer2 Tell me you only played P5 without telling me you only played P5 There are a lot of games where an important character dissapears from the party for a while and you can still play the game, so your argument is stupid.

[@NetherTamer]

I'm not a big fan of Morgana, but my annoyances really just boil down to the story. The could've done so much better with the fight between the Phantom Thieves and not have it shoved into Haru's arc, or even if they did have Haru actually help them out instead of picking a side and worsening the conflict even more. I also feel like they should've taken some of Morgana's traits down a notch like the constant simping for Ann and the berating of Ryuji.

[@Ninja07Keaton]

Morgana's character flaws are no more pronounced than the other Phantom thieves. Morgana just happens to be the one character among the party members with the most screen time. If any of the other party members had as much screen time as Morgana, they'd have more than likely been met with the same backlash. The players aren't allowed a recess from Morgana, but it had to be done because Morgana is too important to the story.

[@nerogoro]

Yeah, to be honest his “comedic” traits should be a lot more general rather than being restricted to him saying he’s a human and not a cat, simping for Ann, and shitting on Ryuji all the time. Yusuke for example, his comedic trait is that he’s weird and not self aware of his weirdness which diversifies the jokes he can make. So, it’s true Morgana’s comedic traits are going to be annoying at some point. Also, the whole beef between Morgana and the Phantom Thieves should’ve been done not during a serious arc which I agree with you.

[@OmniMon94]

@@nerogoro indeed, these arcs could have been done in a mementos request or something to really write down how the thieves developed in mementos which is at this point the main side dungeon so that they dont have to do it during a major palace arc unless if it works (Ann and the whole Kamoshida thing for example). Idk if this is a good example so feel free to correct me on anything

[@Mermain123]

I think they should have switched up the kaneshiro and okumara arcs give haru all the development she needs give makoto all her build up as usual but morgan has a big argument there an makoto gets her development during Sae's palace. makoto wouldn't be robbed because she has a whole other palace dedicated to her sister so giving morgana the focus won't take away another character's focus

[@OmniMon94]

@Mermain123 ok that's smart, you have a genuine great idea. Makoto is introduced already with not much build up but she does have an arc somewhat in Sae's palace The Morgana arc really could take place during Kaneshiro because as you said Makoto already has 2 palaces where she shines

[@mistiegames4220]

I actually like Morgana. Honestly, in Persona 5, having a talking cat who accompanies you in everything is pretty funny and atmospheric in the style of P5. But I really don't like when he simping Ann and says he's human every 15 seconds.

[@phillemon7664]

He was human though… at least he was supposed to be. Lavenza F***ed up the creation process and made him appear to be a cat and thus he was visually and audibly a cat even though he doesn’t act like one

[@mistiegames4220]

@@phillemon7664 where did it said? I never hear anything about this. And why do you blame Lavenza at all? Morgana was created by Igor and that's it, it was all said in the game and nothing about Lavenza. And considering how respectfully Morgana treated Lavenza, it means he has nothing bad to do with her. And yet he was never being a human.

[@raikasha8152]

@@mistiegames4220 Plus it makes sense from a story standpoint. Igor created Morgana to assist Joker in Mementos *(which is why Morgana had an innate knowledge of Metaverase)* and it makes way more sense for Joker to have a harmless beloved small animal that can follow him anywhere around than rather than a nameless boy with no background. Phil here is just making random connections

[@mistiegames4220]

@@raikasha8152 But maybe it was mentioned in some spin-offs like Strikers. But I only played P5R and I have not heard anything about Lavenza having a hand in creating Morgana. I remember Morgana saying that he was born in the Velvet Room and his master is Igor, to which Igor replied "Indeed".

[@raikasha8152]

@@mistiegames4220 I remember it. When Yaldabaoth was taking over the Velvet Room Igor with the last of his power before being sealed created Morgana to aid Joker and "Help Man's Spiritual World" paraphrasing but it involved that. Plus you mentioning Igor being Morgana's master backs up what I said.

[@DVD-p2j]

They hate him for being the "cock block" of mechanics, I think if it was Joker that said the lines to himself and still restricted you from doing shit he would get the hate. I love Morgana, definetly a lot more "bear" able than Teddie.

[@thecatinthehat125]

What have you got against Teddie? He’s the bearst.

[@St4rTr3v1Ut10n]

I could see it, just his nature. Everything he says is like it's the most amazing thing ever, his voice is high-pitched, which is typically annoying for a male, and nothing he does would be approved for liberal audiences these days. He's one of my faves in P4, but I see why people don't like him ​@thecatinthehat125

[@Joker3180Z]

I actually do that in Royal

[@brave_jedi9437]

What’s a cock block? I’ve never heard of that term before

[@Liliana_the_ghost_cat]

​@@St4rTr3v1Ut10n "liberal audiences these days". Bro, I'm as far-left as can be and I freakin' love Morgana. Politics is not the issue here, people dislike Morgana for reasons other than that.

[@Loner098]

To restate what another comment by @JJ_R said about the Okumura arc, they pretty much described my feelings perfectly about why it felt so underwhelming. Despite coming about due to his identity crisis, the scene of Morgana leaving the team while having an outburst makes it seem like he wants respect. After all, once Okumura was taken down (somehow, since Morana couldn't exactly mass-produce a calling card on his own), the public could see it as the Phantom Thieves' work, not just a single member. That line of his, along with the flashback, as well as his line of showing "who the useless one actually is," makes it sound like Morgana left because he feels belittled by the other Phantom Thieves... despite other examples that are *not* brought up over Morgana’s lack of skill; like Ryuji calling Morgana useless for *only* being able to transform into a van. Not only that, but during that whole scene, *only* Ryuji belittles Morgana (while Ann just yells *only* at Ryuji to stop and not at Morgana), no one else does, yet it’s enough to make Morgana leave. It comes across as Morgana throwing a tantrum, especially since he refused to talk about *why* he's feeling that way. This eventually leads to the next part as to why people don't like the introduction to this arc: The remaining week had absolutely no free time. Because of that, the only engagement the player has right now is with the story (and the plant in your room, I guess). I guarantee this would not be the case, if you could do anything else; maybe work out to prepare yourself if Morgana is in danger and make infiltration tools for the Palace you're going to, but nope. Joker is apparently too worried about Morgana to function properly; we can't even decorate the room a little without him. And due to Morgana jumping the gun, this Palace as a spaceship really doesn't feel... organic. Because of that, we never actually see Okumura Foods employees in the real world. All we see of them are robots. That was not the case in any other palaces up to that point; we saw Shujin students suffering in both the real world and in Kamoshida’s & Kaneshiro’s Palaces as well as being able to see Madarame’s pupils in dire straits both in and out of his palace. Futaba could’ve been the exception since she was the only one suffering from her own Palace, but even then, we saw her suffering in the real world as well. Here, though? There is no view of an Okumura Foods employee suffering in the real world, be it complaining and/or overworked. The ONLY ones who are *technically* suffering both in and out Okumura's palace are Haru and her fiancé (he exactly at all suffering from Okumura's palace, but you could still infer what Okumura truly thought of him). This all lends itself to an overarching problem that this is Morgana's arc, considering most of the attention is focused on him, despite the game’s efforts in justifying the Phantom Thieves' actions.

[@Eternalwarpuppy]

My dislike for Morgana didn't really have anything to do with the story. Having way lower HP than everyone else causes him to say his signature line "I got too reckless, I'll back out and focus on support" way too often. It always made me feel like he was retreating due to a minor injury while the rest of my party would fight to the bitter end.

[@Liliana_the_ghost_cat]

My joke was that this actually why he has low hp. He actually has more, it's just that he doesn't want to risk losing that extra hp so he just runs off lol. This wouldn't be an issue if him "focusing on support" meant that he could actually go ahead and do some stuff. Maybe not attack but use some kind of healing abilities (he is already a healer after all) or items. As it stands it feels weird how he's just completely fine but doesn't want to fight at all

[@Eternalwarpuppy]

@@Liliana_the_ghost_cat EXACTLY!! You get me.

[@personafanatic4597]

Mona is the Yukari of the group lmao i went into Tartarus with Yukari and omfg she kept dying it was so irritating! least no one is as useless as Fuuka though

[@Eternalwarpuppy]

@ As much as I loved him as a character, Koromaru really pissed me off in Persona 3's combat. Every time you wanted him to use mudo skills for instant kill he would just attack, and only when enemies are almost dead already and a normal attack would kill them would he actually go for the gamble on Mudo skills. The joys of being forced to use AI.

[@supersnow17]

After playing 4 I COMPLETLY AND UTTERLY understand why he was added in. He's basically the Navi of the game. He reminded me of the chick at the church and I was all like "OH CRAP HER" and went to do her entire storyline. P5 has so much content that it's easy to forget all about certain things after being introduced to them, so Mona is just there to be like "hey don't forget to ask about the paper bag you were given" and so on. He's annoying yes, but utterly needed on a first and second playthrough.

[@alextihor1190]

My main issue is that a lot of the time Morganas lines could be Joker's, which would give him more characterization. I guess people need that immersion, but it also breaks it when you're constantly silent but people seem to just think youre a blast to be around with.

[@ShadowOfMassDestruction]

@@alextihor1190 Joker is the best characterized protag in my opinion through the dialogue options though. Even when the choices are three way you can garner Ren's mischievous nature through the phrasing of each one compared to when I first got into Persona going backwards to 3 and 4 Makoto and Yu felt so incredibly bland at the time cause most the dialogue options didn't specify anything about them or how they would talk at all and it took me watching their Anime to get their characters.

[@penguinpulverizers5985]

​@ShadowOfMassDestruction Joker was characterised better through the casino heist opening than the other two were their entire games 😭

[@ShadowOfMassDestruction]

@@penguinpulverizers5985 Exactly bro!

[@JuniorD99WD]

Morgana, the Phantom Thief who steals Hearts and Screentime from others! 😂

[@CuteRedPanda64]

This pretty much sums him up entirely.

[@leonidasdarthleon8546]

I simply could not hate Morgana for 2 reasons. A) He was the group Healer. Pretty much guaranteeing a spot on the team at almost all times. B) He's a kitty cat!

[@SimulatedGoat]

HE'S NOT A CAT

[@Clayinator]

I actually like Morgana. Yes he is indeed annoying. But I love the character arc he grows through of finding his purpose the entire game. It actually works well with who Joker is as a character as well. Joker was always a character to prove his worth and fit in society. Morgana is trying to find a purpose in society. They go together pretty well. I also love Morgana’s design. It’s one of the most unique and great designs in the series. But I can see why people could hate him. But honestly there are way worse characters in Persona to hate.

[@Johhnnny]

1:45 APOLLO MENTIONED 💯💯💯💯💯💯💯💯💯💯🔥🔥🔥🔥

[@AverageGooose]

us sunseekers are finally getting the spotlight!!

[@Starwarsdude8221991]

Ryuji was my dude and honestly the party was getting on my nerves with all the shit he gave him

[@pixet4432]

I interpreted his beef with Ryuji as friendly (two-sided) banter (it sure is one after Okumura's, there's a set of dialogue in Mementos that occur between them when you delve deeper), and the game does try to give the impression that it's two-sided banter went too far. Explained by Ryuji being a generally tactless person. But at one point I've kind of given up on that point, considering that their banter doesn't have a good introduction and is started by Morgana more than anything. (Which you can argue is poor writing but whatever.) It's just wrong for Morgana to be insulting then give up and run away when he's insulted back. The running away scene outright villainized Morgana more than it portrayed him as a frustrated friend in need. It came out of nowhere considering what the recent story has been building up about Morgana until that point. There's depth to Morgana since you can appreciate the selfish to selfless transition that feels natural without being condescending in itself, since Morgana comes out of his shell. He's notably nice and caring to Futaba when she herself is opening up. Depth can be added when his depression kicks in, causing there to be a crossroad that forces a choice of returning back to how he started or seeing things through (he chose the latter), and overall Morgana seems to have an interesting development composition. But again, the running away scene. The other personal gripe I have with Morgana is how sometimes his portrayal has him only exist to be cute. See majority of the anime cutscenes, especially the openings, and you'll notice he has no meaningful characterization past the guidelines compared to the rest of the cast. Lastly, Morgana should've completely gone over Ann. I'd give him four arcs so he wraps everything up in Okumura's. That's why his obsession with treasure is buried for good: because it's concluded. Otherwise it's a portrayed character flaw that is never meaningfully resolved. Idk what Morgana is and if he's really a well-designed character or if Hashino was directing out of his ass but I'm gonna trust the quality of the game to be consistent. (Fans in Japan love Morgana apparently.)

[@nerogoro]

Yeah, Japan just love cute things I suppose 😭 but I do agree that the scene where he runs away is more ‘villainizing’ him rather than being an important development for him. That scene did a lot of damage to the arc and Haru’s character which was a really bad part on the writers.

[@ScatteredMartianThoughts]

While Morgana can be annoying at times, I've always thought that Nozomi Suemitsu (Moon Arcana in Persona 3) was a stronger candidate for most hated within the Persona series.

[@tohrumatoi]

To be fair, you can say that for any of the moon arcana characters from 3-5, especially Ai in 4, she's almost as bad as Yukari lol.

[@nerogoro]

I tried to advance his Social Link, I just couldn’t do it man 😭🙏

[@Ninja07Keaton]

In fairness, Nozomi being borderline unlikable was the entire point. The Moon characters are very much people struggling with self hatred. They're text book examples of many who deal with clinical depression. Horrible people who knowingly and willingly behave as such because they truly believe themselves unworthy of being decent people. It's not necessarily a pleasant story, but an important story that is all too real. I didn't understand the Moon characters that well myself until after I watched Bojack Horseman. Helped me understand the full context of why the Moon characters exist.

[@CrunchMunchzx]

Mishima is the only Moon Arcana I found at least decent💀

[@Ninja07Keaton]

@CrunchMunchzx For better or worse, Mishima is the most relatable character belonging to the Moon.

[@yukino017hananana2]

I don't hate morgana.... but i hate how he's written Incoming Essay Below : I think morgana's insecurities would've been perfect to explore in ANY OTHER PLACE EXCEPT THE OKUMURA ARC, DURING THE INTRODUCTION OF ANOTHER CHARACTER i think he has potential, but by GOD the game do not make it easy on me to like him. I don't even mind his entire "Go Sleep" thing because yes, it's annoying, but it's a game mechanic. It's not really Morgana's fault on that part, only the developers accidentally fucking up with how to represent the mechanic. His simping isnt even a big problem for me (there's worse simps out there [read Teddie and i dont hate him that much either] and he's basically just admiring Ann, which is half of the fandom anyways) but it is repetitive, wish there's more content of him talking with the other members, growing past his initial attraction to Ann. His fight with Ryuji should've hit him with his hypocrisy back to his face!!!! It would've been perfect character development in his maturity!!!! Growing past his insecurities to finally be a better teammate now that his original and perceieved "use" is no longer the only thing connecting him to the team. Reconnecting with Ryuji (along with the team) and apologizing for his actions, and finally maturing into his Final Persona, if you will. AND IN ANY OTHER ARC THAT ISN'T THE FIRST FUCKING INTRODUCTION OF THE OKUMURA ARC!!! (I have problems with Okumura arc too but that's another story) but unfortunately, his arc is written really badly imo, because not only he took away the spotlight from what should've been the main character of that arc, he himself didn't really change that much!! Again, I don't hate him, I hate how he is written. I personally think he's a cool character and had so much potential to explore the insecurities of being alone, of not having anyone by his side because he's an amnesiac cat who can only talk to people who's been in the Metaverse. His lashing out with Ryuji as a type of jealousy, but his jealousy is born from very shallow understanding of humanity due to his immaturity. There could've been an exploration where Morgana explains that Ryuji was the closest to being the free, rebellious punk kid in his eyes. Cheerful, useful, a bright boy that shines like the sun, which makes him so jealous, and not understanding his emotions due to his lack of comparison. It would've been a perfect exploration! It ties to his insecurities of lack of memories + his immaturity and hypocrisy! The MC is different in his eyes, because Morgana saw how MC grew, how he struggled inside and became the Leader because he's always been with MC, and MC's own potential sets him apart. And honestly, this would've been a great Confidant Link. Yes. CONFIDANT. This should've been fucking explored outside of the OKUMURA ARC SO THEY CAN PROPERLY INTRODUCE HARU. Give her time to shine!!! Let her explore her own rebellion, show her own problems of being under her father's grasp! But that's another topic already and this essay is long enough lol anyways rant over TLDR imo he's not a bad character, he's just badly written

[@kingofthe_humanz8285]

the literal only problems i have with him are 1) the constant insulting and berating of ryuji, ryuji is a really loveable character and an easy way to make me not like someone is to make them hate a character i love. 90%of the time its undeserved and half the time ryuji just ignores/doesnt fight back. atkeast in p3 when yukari is mean to junpei he usually deserves it, theres even a few moments where the story shows she is wrong to do that and those two actually bond alot so you get the idea that they're just friends who poke fun alot. morgana hates ryuji for no real reason, and i dont like that 2) the constant simping over Ann, i get it pretty girl character is in fact a pretty girl. everyone else in the story brings up how pretty she is constantly and morgana adding to that is just unnecessary his constant attempts at romance go completely ignored which result in him just coming off as pathetic and annoying. 3) the whole human thing. i get him seriously being attached to the idea of being a human like everyone else but the constant denial of being a cat is so obnoxious. you literally meow and purr bruh. you could literally say "oh im a cat now but ill be a human soon" problem solved i actually didnt find teddie annoying for the most part because he literally JUST started being a human like halfway through the game. hes pretty much a baby or like a little kid in the human world. he doesnt understand boundaries or stuff like that because hes still learning whats normal. his shenanigans with yosuke are funny and his little crush on yukiko isnt thrown in your face constantly. (she even uses it to motivate him to fight a few times in the anime IIRC) he also has his wholesome bond with nanako and has motivation to protect her so they can hang out and play together again, despite him having pervy moments here and there teddie is mostly played as the innocent kid of the group. teddie is only knowledgeable about the tv world meanwhile morgana is talking about being a gentleman and talking about how to treat a lady like hes some casanova meanwhile his crush wont even pay attention to him for 2 seconds. teddie is literally the rizzly bear, human teddie pulling girls left and right all while being a dumbass.

[@silverahiru4472]

There is no real indicators off how old teddie is.. for all we know there is only one time when he confessed he has been in shadow world for a long time while for morgana we already know the time when he was created igor, on that note he probably much younger than any pt member. Also. Teddy clearly knows what he is doing, taking advantage groping Rise when they celebrate nanako safety, exposing yosuke's erotic book on his parent, giving nanako a doll made from his own fur (imagine if your own friend did that to your own sister), repeatedly sexualy harrasing the girl with his innuendo, breaking into woman bath as well as their room at night when the girls were asleep. Excusing all that as innocent kid thing is pure delusion especially when many other IT's member already calling out on his misbehaviour and yet he keeps on doing them.

[@Antasma1]

The “I’m not a cat” bit definitely got old in Strikers where he knew he wasn’t human. Not JUST a cat or MORE than a cat would have made more sense

[@RaxonXVI]

He's one of my all time favorite characters and is a comfort character for me I absolutely love Mona

[@reygartv9184]

galica is the best mascot from atlus games

[@ultimatejager4058]

Totally

[@Joker3180Z]

Jack Frost

[@samflood5631]

Gallica? You mean from Metaphor ReFantazio?

[@thekakeking9400]

I love Ryuji, I don't have much of an opinion of Morgana. I wish he and Ryuji had an actual heart to heart.

[@Jimmylikehalo]

I used to hate morgana but when i played the spin offs like p5s and p5t, I actually grew to like him a lot more maybe because those games didn't have the okumara arc part or morgana not letting me leave my home lol. Oh also him being mean to ryuji (he's my favorite character)

[@Jimmylikehalo]

@Joker3180Z that's my bad I meant to say p5s as in strikers

[@heiispoon3017]

Everytime I replay the game Im now starting to see and understand ( a lil bit) on how complex and hard it is, the stories of each character arc (including the other confidants) weave into the game mechanics and at the same time, balance story progression of the plot... Thank God for the New game plus feature on this RPGS!! Agreed on Haru's arc being overshadowed by Morgana and Ryuji feud. So far in P3Fes and P5R, the trend or vibe for empress social link having a limited exposure ( or screen time? I cant find the right word...) on the main story is truly evident. ( I have not included Margaret from P4 since it is quite different compared to Mitsuru and Haru's situation) Now that I think about it Haru and Mitsuru are kinda alike in some aspects...still, l love both characters! On my later play throughs(p3reload and P5R) I favor choosing them for the ingame events to balance things out.

[@79bigcat]

I'd say Morgana acting as a pseudo narrator gets soured from the first playthrough. This is due to the player learning to manage the calendar effectively, the need to grind social stats, and lacking Kawakami's massage perk(which allows you to use the night timeslot after an infiltration). Royal further tried to mitigate the frustration by allowing the player to do things in LeBlanc during the nights where the plot locks you out (and removing the DVD late fees). Easily could have been fixed if they were Joker's thought bubbles saying "I'm tired" or "This can wait," instead. Morgana is a character introduced at the start of the game, so are Ryuji and Ann. I find it odd that Atlus decided to handle all their arcs differently: Ann pretty much gets shelved partway through the Madarame arc once Yusuke joins the team and the story needs to emphasize him. This relegates her development to her confidant which never ties back into the main plot because they can't be sure how much the player worked on. Ryuji has his arc sprinkled in between the main ones. So his character development gets slow rolled through the game. Tellingly, Ryuji is probably the most outspoken on where he stands with the others: butts heads with Morgana, the playful back and forth teasing with Ann, watching out for Yusuke when he is alone or hungry, and the fear and respect for Makoto. And Morgana has his blowout which upstages the new character who should have had the spotlight. If they were trying to set up a parallel between his identity crisis and Haru, I don't see it. He got foisted out of his role by someone who could better, she is denied agency and her role was chosen for her. Ironically, in terms of moveset: Morgana is pigeonholed into a healer, where Haru has a more flexible skill kit.

[@ActuallyMooncake]

Idk what yall got honestly Morgana is awesome

[@Kira_Official_]

I personally don't really think Morgana halting player progression is all that bad. I don't mind it, because then the challenge becomes "How do you make the most progress in the most efficient way possible?". The game is already about planning out how you're going to spend your day, and I think Morgana making the player go to bed adds an extra layer to it. Do you go to momentos/palace and sacrifice confidant progression or do you sacrifice palace/momentos progression for leveling up confidants or your stats? Then if you play right and spend time with the right people, you can make further progress in either the real world or metaverse world or both, significantly faster. I don't know if that was the intention of why they had Morgana do that, but unfortunately it had the negative side affect of making people hate him.

[@silverman1205]

The main issue I have personally is that he will sometimes stop you from going out for seemingly no reason besides the story saying so. You didn't go into the metaverse that day, there is no big infiltration the next day, instead all that happened is plot exposition occurred.

[@silverahiru4472]

​@@silverman1205Previous persona game also did the same thing such as P4, when the protag want to go out late at night or in certain day... player will have in game text telling that you can't do it. It just in p5 it was integrated with character morgana telling us about it instead.

[@ajgameguy3674]

​@@silverahiru4472 Definitely feels more apparent/happens more often in 5 than it ever did in 4. Like, in 4, you still had a couple points in-between dungeons to do SLs and explore dungeons. In 5, if you're not under a deadline, chances are, some plot is happening that apparently requires you go to sleep IMMEDIATELY after you get back from the cutscene.

[@silverman1205]

@@silverahiru4472 It annoyed me in P3 and P4 too. It just seems like it happens a whole lot more often in P5, although it is possible that is not the case.

[@Hawkow_Ruby]

i don't get the hate for him i'm morgana's biggest defender

[@ashmintyrina]

for real

[@cathamood1233]

Ima glaze morogana forever

[@lassesj200]

Same here! One of his biggest defenders, and also fan

[@legatosaldana3870]

Me too! Honestly the only part in the game I didn’t like him was the Morgana ark, not saying he completely sucked then, but it just stole the opportunity to give Haru an ark.

[@lassesj200]

@@legatosaldana3870 Even then, i still felt as sad as Joker did in that section, if not even more so that he was gone

[@Cloud-dt6xb]

I get annoyed when people dismiss Morgana’s arc as just a childish tantrum. Because by the time the Okumra arc happens he’s very clearly going through depression or pretty close to it. His arc is about learning to not hold stuff in and that it’s ok to express your feelings when you need to. Also Ryuji is not blameless in how that blow up happens. The thing is he constantly pushes one of Morgana’s boundaries with his insults a lot throughout the game. Morgana NEVER hits a sore spot of Ryuji’s and there’s even times where he has perfect ammo to use on Ryuji but doesn’t like when Makoto busts them. To wrap it up there’s a lot of factors to what happens in the Okumura arc but Ryuji definitely contributes to it.

[@ExtremistLine]

Controversial take but I'll take Morgana over Teddie any day >_> I didn't even know he had this much hate. To me, Teddie was WAY more annoying, had a MUCH worse voice, his arc didn't feel as fulfilling to me personally, and I much prefer Morgana's design. Teddie was just too overly silly for me, Morgana struck a much better serious-silly-cute balance than Teddie did IMO. I get some of the points, absolutely, like the Haru arc thing. But the whole 'Let's go to sleep' thing causing hate for him is absurd. People blaming a character for something that is a design choice. I wised up pretty quickly and realized when the designers were just completely railroading you, and never blamed Morg for it.

[@overrated2975]

I don’t think there’s anything inherently wrong with the arc they chose for morgana, and it didn’t exactly come out of nowhere (morgana had been feuding with ryuji from the start and it has really escalated by kanashiro). The main issue has always been the placement. It’s always been kinda interesting to see almost nobody levy the morgana and ryuji fight against ryuji, but almost always say it’s the main reason they find morgana annoying. Sure obviously ryuji is typically more likable but I always find ryuji’s comments about morgana being completely useless hollow because just a few weeks earlier in game morgana saved literally everyone’s lives in the pyramid escape at the end of futaba’s palace. It’s also important to remember that morgana didn’t exclusively leave because of ryuji’s comments, ann and to a lesser extent futaba both pretty demeaning towards him either during the big fight or before it. Morgana did leave for that short while because he was upset over being called worthless a bunch, but I’ve also interpreted it as morgana leaving because he himself believes he’s becoming worthless and not just because he’s getting shit on by some of the members. Either way there should have been a better way to introduce Haru and she will forever be one of the most unfortunately inconsequential party members for it. Btw teddie is way worse, the only thing he has going for him is an good moveset at best

[@Krimsin01]

honestly, i prefer having morgana on my team than teddie

[@overrated2975]

@@Krimsin01 teddie does have to compete with yukiko for the healer/magic user slot, which is a pretty tall ask

[@ajgameguy3674]

​@@overrated2975I mostly had Teddie on the Buff station. There was no way he was beating Yukiko in the healing biz, this was his next best option.

[@kaorinsz]

Morgana my beloved

[@rodrigo354]

I never played vanilla P5- I only ever played P5R. To my understanding Morgana is way more “strict” with how much he blocks you from being able to do things in vanilla- so he was never as much of a nuisance for me as he was for others. ….tbh I was always more on Morgana’s side in the beef between him and Ryuji. Love Ryuji- but outside of his confidant ark he low key comes off like such an insufferable prick….I am fully aware most people don’t feel this way. It is what it is.

[@lucygirl1111]

i like both allso its probably cause Ryuji's confidant gets you access to the one of the most broken abiltiies in the game overkill where you can just run over a shadow and it dies and you gain exp and a persona or if you run at it you litterly cleave the shadow into half and get the same benefits if you run them over (its very useful for grinding)

[@rodrigo354]

@ haha yea that ability is broken you’re right! I do love it though, it’s dope!

[@MixingMagic09]

I’ve only played vanilla and honestly Morgana’s whole go to sleep thing didn’t bug me that much. I just find it sad that people are willing to give a character so much hate due to a game mechanic. And yeah, I totally took his side during his argument with Ryuji as well

[@lucygirl1111]

@@rodrigo354 there is another very useful ability well its a bit more situational hifumi's ability to switch up your team members whenever you need very useful during boss fights

[@Terumimi]

Morgana's one of my favorite characters in the entire persona series, and you've pretty much named all the reasons why i can forgive the issues that the game has occasionally when it comes to his writing (specifically the okumera arc). He's a sweet character, his arc about trying to fit in and become like others before realizing he's one of a kind and thats ok means a lot to me, he's adorable, there's a lot for me to love. Also, unrelated, but even though it sucks that haru doesnt get to really have an arc of her own, her arc in strikers is one of my favorites

[@michealforguson5317]

Haru: Stand up, Marikyu Hyodo! Me: Woo! Tell her!

[@r.c.3813]

morgana isn't my favorite phantom thief or anything but i always thought the hatred around him was so stupid like how is it is fault that the devs didn't want you to do stuff on important days that is like the stupidest reason to hate a character. the morgana plot in the okumera arc is i think usually people not fully understanding morgana's story which i can't blame them for i don't immediately pick up on every story arc either and not everyone is addicted to character analysis video's like me. It is sad though that poor haru doesn't get the attention she deserves in her own arc but she's still best girl for me despite how bad the original p5 story treats her.

[@jcblue1981]

How do people hate morgana but love teddie

[@tanxene]

@@jcblue1981 I like both

[@Punpun6745]

I just don't like that he fawns over Ann and gives Ryuji an unnecessary amount of shit

[@mistiegames4220]

@@Punpun6745 Perhaps the way people argue without going to extremes shows that they really have a great relationship.

[@phillemon7664]

@@Punpun6745 true. I just see him as if he’s a little boy in the body of a cat with the potential to be as strong as a god. Bro is not going to be the most mature if you look at him from that perspective.

[@Ninja07Keaton]

@@Punpun6745 The female party members treat Ryuji far worse than Morgana ever did, and no one takes issue with them. And if we're being honest, Ryuji is the type of person who really will die if he's not held back. Ryuji is like Kuwabara from Yu Yu Hakusho. People like him, but much like Hiei, Morgana represents the realistic side of having a dimwit for an ally. Ryuji isn't the dependable friend you readily rely on, he's the pinhead ally you get stuck with, and you'll sorely wish that you aren't the one in the group that must clean up after him. Ryuji is great at hitting things, but outside of that, he's barely functional. Ryuji does have his merits. He's loyal, motivational, and brave where most others would be quite fearful. But as the story points out, his merits are undermined by his stupidity, and even the softer members of the Phantom Thieves lose patience with him. As for Morgana's fawning over Ann? Morgana is a Magician character, and all Magicians have the character flaw of immaturity. Morgana's desire to be with Ann is rooted in his desire to be seen as an adult. You don't have to like it, but the important thing in storytelling is rather or not actions make sense within narrative context.

[@prosandconsguy7454]

I actually hated Ryuji not the cat through the story I insulted him every time the story gave me the chance

[@lassesj200]

@@prosandconsguy7454 I'M NOT THE ONLY PERSON IN THE WORLD WITH THIS HOT TAKE!?!? BASED!!!

[@Antasma1]

Morgana is a character I generally like who fell victim to being a messenger for a game mechanic and a poorly handled character arc (and story arc in general)

[@SimoneMarine]

I dont hate morgana, but i definitely think there was some things that couldve been better. His only viability in p5r is rarely getting technical proc and some good healing. Though i find it hard to use him, i dont hate his character at all.

[@Ninja07Keaton]

Morgana's viability in Royal depends on the use of the jazz club. Morgana's stat spread is malleable enough to where he can pretty much be anything with a few stat boosts. And with Velvet Room, you can give him skill accessories to suit your liking. He can have the strengths of any archetype, while having few to none of their weaknesses.

[@SimoneMarine]

​@Ninja07Keaton guess I just didn't put quite enough effort into him. But that's a fair point icl

[@SimoneMarine]

I will say though, that if you have to really put some effort into him to make him viable, compared to other characters who are much better at other things right off the bat. Such as makoto with healing and almost every character having better crit and technical options. Is he terrible, no. Could he have been much easier to make viable, imo 100%. No hate for him, just prefer others in battle

[@Ninja07Keaton]

@@SimoneMarine Morgana only suffers from power creep after the 3rd dungeon. Something that Royal thankfully allows players to remedy.

[@helpihavebats6392]

⁠@@Ninja07Keatoni think stuff like late Evolution and the Healer role not being necessary generally hurt him. I did a no Healing Skill test run of P5R Kamos Palace (Hard) and about half or more of the dungeon you can win immediately by base Guns alone. The Minibosses didn’t really do much as they take one turn doing nothing and then only target one character so the extremely cheap healing items from stores were more than enough.

[@ruki4929]

I will admit to being a weird one for not finding Morgana that annoying? Maybe I'm too patient for my own good. I think that it works better when you read Morgana as, basically, a child. His crush on Ann is written like a 10-year old's crush on his babysitter, his ideas on justice and heroes is definitly juvinile (but I guess the whole phantom thieves thing is), his jabs at ryuji are childish, and his insistance on being human at every turn is a frustration which he can't express properly because he doesn't have the emotional intelligence to say 'hey, I am struggling with an identity crisis and every time you call me a cat it makes me feel terrible'. I resonated with his trouble of belonging, because that was how I felt when I was a kid - the idea that if I wasn't useful, I wasn't loved. Of course, this is full headcanon, but that was how I read the character to go, and I feel like it gives him more space to breathe without the judgement of him acting 'childish' for the teenagers he is surrounded with.

[@michealforguson5317]

Makes a lot of sense. That's how I read him. Just kind of wish we could have his crisis happen in between the two palaces.

[@mweeee]

I always felt bad for Morgana, he is a cat with the mind of a human and can only be understood by a handful of people. That must be really lonely. No wonder why he wants to be a human so badly.

[@Netherwolf6100]

Never hated Mona, just found him annoying at times. I always blamed the writing because near the end, it really started losing focus and rushing through things. Haru needed more screen time, the Okumura Palace was the worst, Shido's Palace was the second most annoying for me and then going right into Momentos on Christmas felt rushed. Just got p5r on sale a few days ago and was told it corrects some of these issues so I'll see. But yes, it was the writing at the end ans the gameplay limitations is what dragged down P5 and Mona. His eventual break was becoming more and more apparent so for me, it didn't come out of nowhere. I saw it coming a mile away but I feel like his departure and return should have happened just before entering Momentos and right after Haru joined. He really did steal her already extremely limited screen time.

[@hmmmmname]

I think this is very much a western playerbase problem, same as the whole taking Ryuji getting beaten up after the Palace thing seriously. When I went through it I never saw them beating up Ryuji as anything more than slapstick humor, had a chuckle and never even thought about it again until I see people in the west calling it "the worst thing ever" and being extremely confused as to why.

[@handhelder823]

Eh, beating their saviour unconcious probably didn't sit well with westeners

[@diobrando8472]

Mfs really be out there defending Morgana

[@KuranKn1xx]

I think my main issue with Morgana was they tried so hard to make him a trouble character and he kept getting on my nerves because of it. They showed him having this bad dream like 4-5 times and each time he kept bringing it up and then just backtracking on the entire conversation. 1-2 times, I get, you don’t wanna make everyone worry and it’s really not that deep, dreams happen more than once. But 4-5 times and you’re still just edging the conversation? Like stfu at that point. And the whole thing around his memory and how he kept remembering that he was forgetting something, rather than actually remembering what he forgot was getting more annoying each time. It was fine in the beginning it was a first for everything, I was just meeting the characters and assembling the team and learning more about them. But then he keeps on doing this, even up to when I’m going through the ending, he still on this bs. It just got so irritating every time. I’m like “Bro we are this far in and you’re still fucking around, lock in.” Do I hate Morgana, no, do I think he’s really fucking annoying and really useful at times? Yes.

[@Ninja07Keaton]

That was the point. Morgana puts on a facade to mask his insecurity. Joker is the only person Morgana is completely straight with. He was fearful that if he truly was some sort of "creature" or "monster", he'd lose the strongest personal connection he has. Is it immature? Yes. Though Magician characters are meant to be immature. Naturally, Morgana couldn't have known this at the time. It's a consequence of intertwining his arc with the main story. Morgana cannot fully accept himself until the end of the game. If he does, he'd awaken to his true power too early and just resolve most of the plot right then and there. Your REAL grievance is with the story, not Morgana.

[@KuranKn1xx]

@ You know what, in all honesty you may be completely right, I never really looked at my issue from a story perspective. I just found it annoying and the constant repetition in these story based events that led to nothing each time that bothered me. As I said 1-2, I get from a story and experience based perspective, I but I just felt like doing it 5 times and each time he kept backtracking was just irritating to play through. But you’re likely right, I just gave the story too much credit and directed my issues on the character and their development😭

[@nerogoro]

Yep, the story was definitely dragging his development for way too long which it can get really annoying.

[@SJrad]

yeah at the third time he had the dream should have spit it out already.

[@minortatu3311]

Even in a video about how Morgana is just game design, you still run into a wall and miss why as aspect of the game was implemented in regards to game design 4:50 You wonder why is it that we get locked out of night time activities unlike in P4, and I don't get how people don't see that it was so obviously designed that way in order to give Kawakami and her Special Massage confidant ability some validity. The whole point is that it acts as a roadblock that you're supposed to overcome by unlocking confidant abilities, like many other aspects in the game

[@Rex_Revolt]

Honestly, contrary to most people I actually took Morgana's side rather than Ryuji's in the discussion because I couldn't stand him getting infatuated with the Phantom Thieves popularity at the moment.

[@LeeVization]

I hope in P6 if we get an animal character they're more like Koromaru instead of Morgana

[@Galaxykuma]

If P5X is anything to go by maybe not? Hard to say. You have the owl character whose name escapes me. And the ,somewhat recent, trailer of a literal mascot character.

[@ChefMonke07]

The issue is less about him throwing a tantrum at the ONE time Ryuji pokes at him, it's that his action directly hindered any hopes of progression, both on his and our ends, while also ignoring the fact that he had been the absolute worst to Ryuji FOR THE ENTIRE GAME. It's a piss poor handling of an otherwise fine character that made fans, including me, hate the cat. Personally, I acknowledge the positives of his character while also acknowledging Atlus' writing team as the true culprit, but I also allow myself to feel a certain way about a character despite those facts and sometimes even BECAUSE of those facts.

[@chillswany]

If you have played all persona game and Morgana is your most hated character you played them wrong, replay them, no there is no subjective opinion, I'm saying that factually people who hate Morgana are wrong, my opinion is scientifically CORRECT.

[@julioomega96]

Aigis: Best Mascot Lore wise Teddie: Best Mascot gameplay wise Morgana: Mascot.

[@Eternalwarpuppy]

I would say Persona 3's mascot was a bit more doglike than Aegis.

[@CuteRedPanda64]

Sophie to Morgana: Hold my Yo-yos

[@CuteRedPanda64]

Sophie to Morgana: Hold my Yo-yos

[@that_dude_over_there]

The only time I really hated Morgana was during the Haru section of the game. I was lucky enough to play Royal and not vanilla p5. But that doesn’t mean I hate Morgana the most. No I hate Teddie more.

[@JadenOmega]

Hot take incoming. I actually don't mind Morgana. I actually like Morgana as a character, I don't *LOVE* him, but I don't absolutely hate him either. Cuz I know he's intentions come from a good place. He has annoying parts but he's not insufferable (at least to me anyway.) There are characters who are much worse than he is in my opinion. Honestly, I'd gladly take Morgana simping over Ann then Teddie simping over.......EVERYBODY!!!

[@bakacdaz]

Western fans just has some kind of Mascot-Phobia (or whatever it’s called). It’s the thing I never understand since Teddy situation.

[@AlexanderMartinez-kd7cz]

it's because the mascot character has been getting worse with each entry. koromaru was just a cute pet. teddie was basically the investigation team's pet but he talks and is the dumbest character in the game. morgana is also your pet that talks and says dumb stuff but he's superglued to you the whole game and has a tantrum arc. I'd rather get an actual animal with a persona again than find out what P6's mascot will be like.

[@romahnii]

literally just max kawakamis social link if you care about going out that bad😭

[@lucaspiano76]

Morgana has one of the best battle dialogue between him and the final boss, like it completes his character so well

[@fluffydemon1]

Honestly, Morgana telling me to go to bed never really got to me because i mentally was already like "well the game would tell me to do it anyway even if morgana wasnt here so its not his fault"

[@BasementDweller_]

How can people hate him? He was my best friend more than Ryuji.

[@Wisp1-o3s]

I’d love to see a mod that doesn’t patchwork fix harus story, but lets you play as Morgana in that story segment and see what Morgana got to see off screen

[@yspt]

4:15 That part isn’t true, in P4 after exploring the TV world you cant go outside either since your character says they’re tired. And you can outside when Dojima is home you just need to have accepted a night job, even if you dont do the job.

[@HeyItsFranklyn]

The whole thing with Ryuji seems to be the mindset a lot of people have with Cats in general. Where when the Cat acts hostile or even attacks someone or something it’s funny but any retaliation makes the person or animal the bad guy. I.E people online think it’s funny when a cat mauls a dog unprovoked but the other way around or in defense suddenly it’s the dog needs to be put down or rehomed.

[@kierenbuckley370]

I hate Morgana but compare him to Teddy then Morgana isnt that bad

[@shadix2120]

Morgana wouldn't be so bad as a character if everyone around him wasn't so feckless, including Ren. All my teammates do is just stand around and let this happen and gives half-hearted "stop it you guys" and it's because of moments like these that convince me that none of my teammates are actually friends with each other, they just orbit around Joker.

[@RyujiSakamoto0703]

He’s arguably the most hated character in persona 5. He neglected his team and almost got a girl killed because of his insecurities which were easily resolvable through a conversation with everyone. You know, the only people who actually cared about him. And for some reason, Ryuji was crucified as the bearer of all responsibility for the situation while Morgana was absolved of his doing after his little sob story about his perceived lack of usefulness on the team. Definitely don’t feel sorry for him. Especially when he jump started the whole bickering dynamic between him and ryuji back at Kamoshida’s palace.

[@TheKusa5]

Maybe its just the people that I've hung around, but I genuinely didnt know people disliked Morgana till yeaaaaars after P5 came out, me and my friends all absolutely love Morgana lmao

[@autumnruby8424]

I never really found Morgana to be annoying. He was fun to use in battle, I thought his Metaverse and real world designs were both cute, and I found the way the game uses him as the way to let the player know they’ve used up their free time as endearing rather than obtrusive. I also think his story of feeling obsolete in the Phantom Theives to be really compelling since it mirrors how I felt towars him at that point in the game. Joker has started to come into his own as leader, Makoto is a better healer, Futaba is a better navigator, and it just makes Morgana feel like a useless party member. So to have that reflected in the story, made me re-evalute his role in the Phantom Thieves, and gain a deeper appreciation for him. And I know some people had a problem with his crush on Ann, but I always saw it as a little kid having a crush on someone way older than him. It was a little annoying to me, but that's about it. Morgana just always felt like a little sibling that wants to be appreciated, and as the youngest sister in my family I could empathize.

[@kassandrajack3818]

So I always assumed that Morgana WAS a child, I thought he was around ten to twelve years old mentally and emotionally so when people get angry at him for being childish or immature I'm always confused. That belief I thought was reinforced when Igor said that he made Morgana recently, reaffirming in my head that he was a child. I always read a lot of Morgana's behaviour and choices as being childish, the early bedtimes, the being mean to Ryuji and not realizing that he was actually bothering the other boy, the way that he idolized Ann made me think of a child trying to replicate sexuality, how he got insecure because the others were becoming better than him. I got annoyed at Ryuji because I thought it was obvious that Morgana was a kid, so Ryuji calling him useless for me felt uncalled for. Understandable because Ryuji is only fifteen himself, but still uncalled for. In my first playthrough I had been convinced that Morgana was a human child, a young persona user who ended up getting into trouble due to his immaturity and lack of experience. I was actually really disappointed that he was wasn't just a kid, or at least the younger brother of Lavenza.

[@AlexanderMartinez-kd7cz]

the worst part of morgana is that every game in the persona series after persona 5's massive success will have one.

[@JirusTheGreat]

i've always loved morgana and honestly i'll stand by saying that i genuinely love him as a character

[@tanxene]

i love him and teddie

[@nerogoro]

I love Teddie but his JP voice can pierce my eardrums a lot of the times 😭

[@lanalewis6982]

Based.

[@CuteRedPanda64]

​@@nerogoro then why don't you play the English version.

[@mqfii8992]

At the very least Teddy's annoyance can be chalked out to his naive nature. Morgana CHOOSES to be a little shit

[@Hasty332]

The restriction of not going out at night after palace/Mementos makes the choice a trade off. It also makes confidants like Kawakami more useful

[@PKRockin7]

Morgana and Ryuji apologize in a non-canon area that's easy to miss...

[@rukathekid7853]

Personally it's a combination of not liking his combat abilities, irritating voice, constantly implying Ryuji is dumb, simping Ann, never letting you leave your room and disappearing for no reason Kuromaru was far better

[@xmatoko]

I wasn't aware people felt this way. Every Persona game has had a way to block you from doing anything and forces you to go to bed. In P3 and P4 there's plenty of times where your character says he's too tired, or he has to "be ready" for a big event the next day. A lot of the forcing to go to sleep is just based around the game, not a random mechanic or anything actually having to do with Morgana. Feel the way you want about the character writing, I just thought that was a weird take.

[@DragonsGuy]

"Just like Yukari and Junpei." Yeah, that sucks to sit through every time too.

[@MBYui]

We love him and I'm not talking Nintendo or the royal meaning

[@spilleraaron4748]

The hypocritical nature he has does rub me the wrong way: Ryuji doesn’t understand the metaverse: Idiot Ann doesn’t understand the metaverse: it’s ok my queen it’s a lot to understand

[@Shinoot]

Calling ryuji dumb for doing unarguably dumb things that could easily put the whole team in danger and calling morgana useless when he literally created the phantom thieves and guided them through everything and was clearly struggling with his self-worth are FAR from the same level of assholery, besides ryuji didn't even feel bad about it and gave the most half assed apology just because everyone pressured him to apologize, it truly baffles me that MORGANA is the one getting hated in this whole situation for having a completely normal, if childish (which to be fair, he is basically a child), reaction to a completely unwarranted and insensitive comment in a moment where he was already in a bad place mentally

[@RyujiSakamoto0703]

Morgana didn’t create the Phantom Thieves. During the buffet, it was Ryuji’s idea after he confronted Shido and his goons. He’s the one that inspired the whole idea behind the PTs fighting against injustices. Morgana only sought after the gang because he wanted his memories which he explicitly says after they visit Mementos for the first time. And Ryuji had every right to not feel sorry when he is being crucified as the bearer of complete responsibility for an issue that he didn’t play a part in alone. Morgana was just as responsible for their beef which is why he was hesitant to entertain the idea of apologizing to him. You would be too if someone forced you to apologize for something while not holding the other person just as accountable for what the situation escalated to. And the fact that you basically made excuses for him at the end as though that absolves him of abandoning his team and almost getting a young girl killed is mind baffling. You and a lot of other people in the community like to hold Ryuji to this standard while blatantly overlooking the things that Morgana does/says to provoke the things that happen to him. It’s sad. Child or not, you are responsible for your actions. Hold the same energy for the cat. Being “in a bad place mentally” doesn’t justify everything that comes as a result of it. That’s like me being depressed and yelling at my friends, feeling justified because I was going through something. 🤣

[@Shinoot]

​@@RyujiSakamoto0703okay ryujisakamoto0703

[@15shuake]

i like morgana, he reminds me of sort of a little brother figure or a kid so when hes “annoying” i find it more funny or endearing than anything else.

[@Dbombre]

I remember finding out people actually hate Morgan’s and it wasn’t actually a joke

[@johndasalty111]

SEES don't beat each other up over a misunderstanding. That's why theyll always be a better group than the phantom thieves.

[@PhantomOfTheNight]

BRO I’VE BEEN ADVOCATING FOR HIM SINCE DAY ONE LIKE HOP OFF MY BOY HE DIDN’T DO NOTHING

[@ignaciovelasco9452]

I dont think you are right in your conclusion of the character. First of all; no one aside from joker could even imagine the way morgana feels because he doesnt ever open up to someone aside from that one time with joker, because of that ryuji, could not imagine he would react that way. Second, the ryuji morgana relationship isnt both of them laughting at each other like good friends do, its morgana laughting at ryuji basically saying stuff like "you are pathetic" which happens everytime ryuji misses an attack before futaba joins. If you are insecure about something and keep laughting at someone you cannot blame the other person when they fight back, its common sense, and yet thats all morgana does. And the worst part is that the conflict doesnt resolve itself by explaining the situation to one another no, ryuji IS the bad guy in the eyes of everyone and HE and only HE should apologize because morgana did nothing wrong, and that is not a good way to solve a conflict. The only reason the conflict was resolved its because ryuji just didnt give a FK, he just understand that he was dealing with a child and just said sorry instead of doing the less mature thing of saying "why can you pick on me constantly but when I do it once you start throwing a tantrum?". This conflict specially annoys me because I have met people like that and I wasnt mature enought to just let it go, or in case of ryuji and the rest of my friend group I wasnt able to just dont give a fk.

[@takehirolol5962]

I mean, I have played so many JRPGs in the last 25 years that I have seen almost all archetypes...

[@lucasclyde7424]

I don't hate Morgana as much as others do but it's his drama before the Okumura palace is where he left a bad taste for me. I don't even think giving him a leaving-the-team arc is bad on paper, but the reason it sucked in execution is that it came off or at least is portrayed as a child's hissy fit and it doesn't help that it happened when the team are debating about whether they decide to invade the palace first because they got understandably weirded out by how the Phantom thieves became crazy popular at that point. It's been a while since I played P5, but isn't he the same dude who suggested that they shouldn't run gun ho to palaces and can only infiltrate once everyone in the team agrees? What happened to that? And the whole time Morgana is just using Haru to spite the PT as a way to cope and using her to invade the palace while she's just half awakened makes it worse. I legit cheered when he got humbled by Haru's fiance by punting that freaking cat. I will give Strikers though for mellowing him down and improving his relationship with Ryuji. His best moment for me is when he backs up Ryuji in defending Sophia. I'd argue KaSumi is the weakest written main character of P5, but I don't care about that much since both her and Morgana are my least favorite P5 characters albeit in different ways.

[@nyrdganggaming3296]

Morgana can be annoying at times,but oddly enough, hes ALWAYS in my party no matter what ( excluding leaving during Okumura's palace at first ). I think it's because lucky punch and every other variation came in clutch at times. More reliable than not most of the time

[@Clayinator]

This was my major complaint about Persona 5. I love Persona 5 and it’s easily one of my favorite games. But I feel like it had too much content in the game for how little you actually can do. You need multiple playthroughs to just do certain confidants as you can’t do everything in one. I hated how the game limited you on when you could do certain events and when you can’t. Especially when the game just locks you out of anything during a deadline. But other than that. I feel like Persona 5 is a great game but that definitely holds it back than being better than the other games where you can do way more things and confidants in the same amount of time. I am talking about the original game not Royal it fixed every major complaint I had with it just a FYI.

[@penguinpulverizers5985]

P5r is literally the easiest game to get everything done and gives you more than enough time to do so 🥲

[@ShadowOfMassDestruction]

@@Clayinator I don't see that as a flaw at all. That gives it more replayability.

[@Clayinator]

@@penguinpulverizers5985 I meant the vanilla game. The original. I don’t really count Royal as Persona 5 as they did their own things to make it a remake.

[@Clayinator]

@@ShadowOfMassDestruction That’s true. But the original game was still great and Royal made it even better than it ever was.

[@TheAstralFencer]

I don’t hate him, I absolutely love him

[@FinalShockdown]

My favorite character, I can heavily relate to a lot of his anxieties about not being good enough. I understand why people don’t like him but I think it’s way too overblown for the most part. Especially because it’s mostly gameplay mechanic stuff- it’s an issue with the game, Morgana was just the unfortunate vessel for which it was relayed unto the player.

[@lePirateMan]

If it was said by jokers internal monologue I wouldnt mind. I just hate that morgana talks for joker

[@homemadeh]

It’s kinda funny that I used to not like him for some weird reason. Maybe because of his loud/snarky style? But I kinda like him now. He kinda silly, methinks

[@magnumopus8124]

Lol I thought I was the only one who'd check the map, see I can't leave and still try anyway. Probably my 5th or 6th play through.....counting og p5 and I was doing it just last night too. At least let me go to the gym so I can get my swoll on! 😩 Despite that, I absolutely adore morgana.

[@onzasyne]

I love that I have media literacy skills that some of the SMT community don't

[@blackosprey2219]

He's a lot cuter as an actual cat.

[@tda8184]

i personally dont find that Morgana doesnt let you go out after certain activities annoying. its the same thing that i experienced in Persona 4, which is that the player character doesnt want to go outside because he is tired. and sometimes Dojima is in the house so no going out

[@luigiboyinblu]

I didn’t use to like Morgana as much because of his entitled attitude and how much he overshadowed Haru in the Okumura arc. Until he was the first one to stand up against Yaldabaoth when the Phantom Thieves were nearly defeated. That’s when I remembered that he was created from the hopes of humanity and it was a pretty good climax for his arc. Yes, he’s not even near to be what he always claims to be (mature, a gentleman, physically strong, whatever you want), but if there’s one thing he demonstrated that he is, it’s that he’s loyal to his believes and to the Phantom Thieves even if a God is about to end them right there and then. That moment didn’t make me turn into a Morgana fan, but it definitely made me respect him more and focus more of my complains towards the writers for not doing him justice. And for the beating of Ryuji scene, but at least it was somehow funny.

[@Sverigeutureueuutursverige]

The limitations are what makes persona great, you need to plan things out with how you spend your time and can't just spend infinite time grinding or doing whatever like in most RPG's