The Most Hated Dungeon in Zelda

[@niceparker8401]

I’m one of those weird people who feel serious nostalgia for the temple of the ocean king. Phantom hourglass was my first Zelda game. I was 5 in 2008 and it just blew my mind. I love the game.

[@Mehwhatevr]

I don't know if I liked it, I remember it being repetitive. but it's the only part I remember.

[@longlivedio3498]

same I first played it when I was really little it was really fun

[@PotatoBeanTestAccount]

DDIdNTY ASK My VIDEOS ARE NERRET

[@niceparker8401]

@@xg223 very eloquently spoken my friend👏

[@Historicutuber]

It’s awful 😢

[@tvb5509]

The Temple of the Ocean King is far more enjoyable when you simply do what the dev's expected you to: take notes. I found it super satisfying to scribble down detailed "walkthroughs" on the map. Returning with that handmade guide felt like being helped by my past self. Editing it with new notes using unlocked items really made me feel stronger every time I entered. Reaching a new floor then felt humbling. I would get a teeny but nervous, since now I had to figure out the new puzzles and jot them down. I think my main complaints are the scarcity of checkpoints, the visual design, and the music.

[@Minsai721]

I thought we were supposed to play a game, not write.

[@apocolypse11]

Nerd

[@tvb5509]

@@apocolypse11 :(

[@DarkSim64]

@@Minsai721 I've never played Phantom Hourglass, but if it's like its successor, Spirit Tracks, you can draw on the map, which means you can take notes. I'm pretty sure that's what OP is saying.

[@Minsai721]

Oooh alright

[@_guy123]

I actually liked the Temple of the Ocean King for the concept of a mega dungeon you chip away at over the course of the game. I liked that with each visit you’d adventure deeper in and new items let you collect treasure you couldn’t the first time around. Plus for what it’s worth, you can increase the time limit by defeating bosses and salvaging chests from the ocean, and the Spirits of Power and Wisdom when upgraded let you stun Phantoms and decrease the time lost from being hit by them respectively.

[@zombiegod34]

wait really i didn't know that about the spirits huh learn something new everyday i suppose.

[@thatonecrazykobold1729]

imho its a great idea, but imho theres areas where it could be improved, not worthy of being the most hated tho, looking at you water temple from ocarina of time

[@PonderousEclectica4383]

i honestly didnt have any problem with the temple of the ocean king. i actually felt a lot of tension while exploring it. the combination of how hostile the entire place is with how it drains your health, the unkillable phantoms patrolling everywhere, the music being kind of ominous like its the buildup before something nasty happens, i honestly felt scared every time i had to return there

[@digivice19]

the more you talk about the ocean king temple, the more i want to go back to it XD

[@saraross8396]

Spirit Tracks did have a similarly styled dungeon (Phantoms included), but it skipped the timer and made it so you didn't have to repeat sections unless there was a previously inaccessible chest you wanted. You can actually do the Temple of the Ocean King in just 4 trips if you have good timing. While it is intended for you to use a Bombchu, there is one puzzle where you can use a regular bomb if you're quick enough. Thus, you can get two sea charts in one trip.

[@masoud6920]

^This The NE Sea Chart is quite difficult without the bombchus and grappling hook, but it's doable. Also for the bombchu part you mentioned I'm pretty sure you're referring to B11, in which the grappling hook makes it even easier than bombchus. I think the developers lowkey failed in making the floor challenging enough with bombchus and grappling hook in constrast to without them.

[@burnout713]

The Spirit Tracks dungeon was way worse.

[@KingRaatz]

@@burnout713 Agreed. The last visit is especially aggravating, between having to constantly backtrack to a certain room to switch Phantom types, and the puzzles just being generally annoying to solve.

[@scorpionsapprentice3248]

@@KingRaatz while i liked the final tower of spirits, the phantom backtracking did feel a bit excessive and none of the puzzles were better than what peaked in parts 4 and 5.

[@netweed09]

Well yep, that's why it's such a _massive_ leap over the 1st game and actual Good game design! Usually people who dislike Spirit Tracks just don't like the idea of Link the Hero of time being a train driver (but thats fair as their opinion 😄)

[@littlenarwhal3914]

I can’t imagine anyone hating forsaken fortress. It’s one of my favorite gaming experiences, and coming back a second time with all your items to slay the bird is so cool

[@bassbar3239]

What i loved about this dungeon was the satisfying feeling of being able to kill the Phantoms later in the game. They were so scary at first that u felt like a god finally beating their asses!

[@netweed09]

? Errr, that's not even 'the Dungeon' then. That's basically _post_ game - after you complete that awful place.

[@OtakuUnitedStudio]

​@@netweed09It's not though. You get the Phantom Sword before you traverse the dungeon for the final time, and might even need to go through a couple extra times before beating it if you didn't prepare properly. It's not post game until you beat the final boss.

[@netweed09]

@@OtakuUnitedStudio _''It's not though. You get the Phantom Sword before you traverse the dungeon for the final time''_ ~ It basically _is_ , lol. You had to have waited till the last 10% of the game to get to this point. I mean, if that's your opinion of 'balanced and fun' , you do you I suppose but the general consensus is that it's terrible and unrewarding game design literally due to the Fact you're forced to play out this whole repetitive chore. Lazy game design to the extreme!

[@jambott5520]

​@@netweed09no, it isn't. Post game is the content that you do after you have finished the game. What you are describing is late game content, and being given a super powerful thing to defeat a foe that has given you trouble over the course of the game is not bad game design.

[@netweed09]

@@jambott5520 It is, you're Objectively kidding yourself and apologising again for simple Nostalgia. If Tears of the Kingdom did something like this, you'd be all over it cos thats the 'trenDy' thing to do on YT that gets (cheap) attention and upvotes. Anyway, your opinion is massively minority in the real World: 9 out of 10 people don't like playing 99% of an already mid game to finally find reward.

[@petergriscom3431]

I actually liked the Temple of the Ocean King. Between the shortcuts you find, improving your time, and finally killing the Phantoms, you get a very concise sense of progress that's unique to Phantom Hourglass.

[@404JNF]

I haven't replayed Phantom Hourglass in over a decade now, but I absolutely loved the Temple of the Ocean King as a kid. I loved the Sand of Hours mechanic, I loved sneaking around, and I even loved getting chased by unkillable monsters. It felt daunting walking back in and satisfying walking back out again. Ah, to be a kid again, playing that game for the tenth time because I didn't have anything better to do. Phantom Hourglass will always be one of my favorites for that reason.

[@awakenedcrowl]

I totally get the problems with it, but I honestly really liked the temple of the ocean king. If you knew what you were doing, you really barely had to apply any stealth. And I think the shortcuts were actually a lot of a better time save them people give them credit for. And even then, I didn't always use them because even without them, I didn't find the re-running too bothersome. Some specific parts were still very rough and avoiding, but while I totally get the dislike, overall I much appreciated the feeling of progression and growth it gave you.

[@awakenedcrowl]

And then, Spirit Tracks did the backtracking issue much better, and climbing the tower for more and more intense music was super epic, but I feel like the actual puzzles on the floors were much more annoying than the TotOK

[@existingchannel6671]

@@awakenedcrowl Also because you just outright couldn't kill phantoms, it was just a puzzle dungeon and had no combat. In so many other Zeldas, that's a sin, but for the DS titles specifically I think it works great because they're best with puzzles/exploration and worst with combat. (shoutout to that one map puzzle to unlock the 3rd dungeon. A bit too obscure but still super clever.) Spirit Tracks did improve on the backtracking, but it was also annoying to have to manage both Link and Zelda at the exact same time.

[@lpfan4491]

​The tower kinda sucks. The idea behind the temple of the ocean king is that you are sent back with more items that speed up or even downright skip floors, as a test for how much more powerful Link has become. And you get a checkpoint halfway through the game. And if you hate gimmicks anyways or get sick of a samey aestetic, then it does not really matter if the content is technically more unique, it still sucks more that you have to return to the tower like 6 times rather than the 4 for the Ocean King-temple. Yeah, I really did not like the tower. Its relative popularity is akin to the Majora's mask-phenomenon where people hate it simply for the timelimit that barely exists anyways. You could give them a worse game in every way, they say it is better.

[@PotatoBeanTestAccount]

DIDNT ASK MY BVIEOS ARE NBETTER

[@awakenedcrowl]

@@PotatoBeanTestAccount Yes yes, of course they are. You are amazing, and we are all ever so grateful to be given the oppurtunity to walk in your graceful footsteps. Please, accept this cookie as a token of my astonishment.

[@starbit5065]

Phantom Hourglass was my first Zelda Game, and while I don’t think it’s the greatest entry in the series now, I still have very fond memories of playing it as a kid. Temple of the Ocean King is kinda weird looking back on it because while I wasn’t exactly excited to return there every time, I didn’t necessarily hate playing through it multiple times. I guess I just thought it was another part of the whole experience. I will say that Spirit Tracks did a much better job at the whole “central super dungeon you constantly return to” gimmick with the Tower of Spirits. So it’s nice to know that the devs learned what did and didn’t work with the original idea.

[@imacowy]

While I like it, I don't think many people who have played Phantom Hourglass would answer anything other than the Temple of the Ocean King Edit: I honestly don't consider the Divine Beasts or TOTK Temples to actually be "dungeons". They take the same spot, but they feel fundamentally different enough from standard Zelda dungeons

[@matthewa6027]

They do that thing were half the dungeon is getting to the dungeon; I feel the same as you though. MM did it best, and didn't cut dungeons down. botw and totk kept it simple and brief. Long are the days of being in a dungeon for a few days.

[@SamtheBravesFan]

I liked what they did with the TOTK temples. They made effort to make them not feel same-y even if they used the advancement mechanic from BOTW.

[@UnclePhil1112]

I’d rather do the Water Temple 1000x than to ever do Temple of the Ocean King ever again

[@Beans-do6wc]

​@SamtheBravesFan those temples are horrible. You can solve every puzzle before you even finish walking into the room

[@Shadowlief]

There are a few dungeons that come to mind as the most hated. 1. Water Temple from Ocarina of Time. It is the longest standing one on this list and has a lot of infamy associated with it, due to one key that is VERY easy to miss. 2. City in the Sky from Twilight Princess. The music is terrible, in my opinion, mostly due to the weird noises behind the music. The dungeon is very open, complex, and annoying especially for having one of the more interesting item upgrades. 3. Great Bay temple from Majoras Mask. The water wheel and currents is a very annoying feature. The mini boss and dungeon boss are very annoying, the mini dungeon leading up to it is also one of the most annoying in majoras mask. 4. Wind temple from windwaker. Makar is a very annoying companion to escort and the dungeon isn't really that interesting either making it more of a chore. The game also automatically kidnaps him, so you have to rescue him to make progress early. Very uninteresting ability too. More freely flying instead of gliding like medley, but his gimmick is planting trees which activate switches and allow link to hookshot, however placement is limited.

[@DemonEyeHelix]

Temple of the ocean king was my favorite part of Phantom Hourglass. I loved going back and progressing further in the temple after each other temple and new key item acquisition.

[@TheLromain1130]

I remember loving this dungeon as a kid, the fact that it "evolved" each time with you discovering something different or getting closer to the end of the game really felt great enough to counterbalance the annoying aspects it had ! But yes killing the knights was like a benediction after so many death screens aha

[@netweed09]

It really was no fun at all. I'd play OOT's Water Temple blindfolded on repeat 10 times before thinking of touching this nightmare!

[@luqdude]

I actually loved the Temple of the Ocean King. Was fun going around and using all the shortcuts that they would leave, and noting down future ones. The time limit also was never an issue for me, never felt like I had to rush.

[@fiddleronthenet3360]

Aw, I liked the Temple of the Ocean King as a kid. I didn't think it was that hard and I loved the puzzles. The only Zelda dungeon that I didn't like at least a little was the Water Temple in OOT, but even that wasn't too bad. It was just a little boring.

[@dgouin99]

Personally, it was my favorite dungeon. I understand why others wouldn't enjoy it, but for some reason I just saw it as a recurring challenge to keep my newfound skills in check. And yes, the music really sucks in retrospect, but while I was playing it the simplicity of it allowed me to focus more on progressing through the dungeon as efficiently as possible, like I just zoned out and immersed myself completely. Definitely not everyone's cup of tea, but I think it has a lot more to offer to those willing to see it through for what it went for rather than some other dungeons which were a drag to everyone almost universally

[@darrak1490]

PH was the first Zelda I completed when I was 9. The dungeon was of course annoying af, but oh man, the feeling of completion you get when you can kill those guards at the end with the phantom sword and knowing all the floors by heart is what got me hooked on video games.

[@netweed09]

I know, that's why it's the worst here lol. Dungeons are meant to be the Best part of Zelda games - not as you Perfectly described it: ''annoying af''.

[@darrak1490]

@@netweed09 the average souls player beg to differ lol

[@netweed09]

@@darrak1490 Well, Souls 1 for sure. Souls 3 is much more 'cleaned up' on the balance I feel no real random OHKO enemies.

[@randomrambutan3755]

They did actually redo this type of dungeon with Spirit Tracks! I feel like it was a lot better handled, but the Temple of the Ocean King was at least unique enough that I think it’s still a net positive. But god, Tower of Spirits refined the idea way better. No mandatory backtracking, hub of all four overworld regions, and an absolute banger of a soundtrack. Main detractor for that game was the lame flute puzzles

[@Zinkolo]

Bro I love phantom hourglass. The Temple of the ocean king is great because every time you enter you find new ways to delve deeper in a shorter time. I never understood why people hated it so much because it's so well designed.

[@KittehNinjaz]

I'm just bad at stealth, man

[@das_LKL]

that was my first zelda game and for a long time my favorite, i never minded the dungeon, always felt smart, in the rooms i already knew what to do

[@philharmonicestuary]

Temple of the Ocean King is easily a top 5 Zelda dungeon, and I'm tired of pretending it's not.

[@dary3]

I'll die with you on this hill

[@Davian2073]

What were the developers actually even thinking? "But it's part of the lore, it's the Ocean King, it's-" I don't care, if it was a great palace for a king, why is it so tiny and bad?

[@gorntaron5156]

I love the temple of the ocean king personally because the further into the game you get the faster you can get past each floor in addition to being able to draw on the map to mark what you need to do and where you need to go each time I think it's great but maybe me playing the game when I was younger made it better or helped me notice the new routes because my mother who played the game after me hated the dungeon saying it was too long repetitive and tedious

[@bitesizecrayons9187]

Being young when you played it helps a lot, I am only annoyed with OoT's water temple because of all the pausing in the OG version. I'm getting around to PH, because my wife loves it and I've never touched the DS Zelda games. I'll be going in open minded, and while stealth segments are usually my least favorite in LoZ games, I'm not going to trash it because of my skill issue lol.

[@guccigamer5907]

I personally liked the timer aspect, I would willingly play through the temple over again to try to get a faster time.

[@AlexsGoogleAccount]

Yeah, people complain about the timer but it's not really a problem. There's enough time that you can still explore each floor thoroughly even without picking up extra sand from the sea floor. And the map already highlights the safe points, so you can make a mad dash for them. Time doesn't tick down during the safe points, so you can spend all the time you need jotting down notes and using your boomerang/bombchus to peek further around the corners. The timer isn't really an issue.

[@Themacattack1209]

I’ll take a whole game revolving around the Temple of the Ocean King before doing the Great Palace without save states again.

[@GameEssays]

I only got through the Great Palace cause I used a map. I'd be toast otherwise.

[@BumbleBee-ur4uo]

ah yes, the ocean king temple. The dungeon i loved so much to the point that I would unnecessarily replay it multiple times and loot it for ship parts all the time. I've discovered that it's a hated dungeon lately, and I'm really confused about how and why.

[@V1G4M1]

Also, man… I *love* the TOTOK… It‘s so good! It‘s so fun to improve your time and I got so good my time was 0:00 passed time at the end…

[@theplinko9840]

Phantom Hourglass is one of my favorite Zelda’s specifically because of the TotoK. It’s one of the most brilliant gimmicks in the entire series, second only to the three day mechanic in Majora’s Mask. It’s everything I love about Metroidvania-styled progression and I wish they’d bring it back.

[@netweed09]

Crazy opinion, lol.

[@theplinko9840]

@@netweed09 I don’t see how it’s crazy to enjoy game design that rewards you for an in-depth knowledge of the game’s rules

[@gamingtime4835]

Hourglass was my first Zelda game and I honestly have nothing but good memories about this game. This game SWAMPED me as a kid, but it’s probably the biggest reason I like puzzle games now. The dungeon changing over the course of the game had to be one of my favourite parts of it. The struggle is probably repressed, but this was one of the first games I played through to the end. I love this one.

[@Levacque]

4:39 ugh that stupid TOTK water temple. They were SO CLOSE to giving it a cool setting in a giant cave beneath Zora's Domain, and then for some absurd reason that cave was only a staging point for the ridiculous floating ruin we had to visit.

[@jaebeeart3683]

I didn't really mind The Temple of the Ocean King that much. It was annoying at times for sure, but so long as you take good notes on the map, find all the extra bits of sand for the hourglass, and abuse tf out of the safe zones, you have more than enough time to lollygag around and figure out what to do. My most hated is either Great Bay Temple, or the OoT Water Temple. Cannot count how many times I got lost in them or got frustrated and rage quit.

[@TheNopyu]

The one annoyance I wish was mentioned in this video which drove me insane as a kid was the sea chart symbol part. When you reach the end of one of section you have to copy a symbol from a map in the dungeon onto your personal map; you do this by shutting the DS. While I know this is meant to be a clever puzzle to showcase the uniqueness of the DS, it completely goes against the intuition of player. I only ever shut my DS when I was done playing and figured that when the DS was shut the game was off. It's a big middle finger after getting through the dungeon just to be faced with another puzzle.

[@ikebeckman1074]

My favorite detail about the dreaded water temple is Link’s reflection in the water disappearing after you cross the little island with the dead tree. Then who do you fight? Your reflection 3:25

[@simon_nickle]

Another thing to mention about the OoT Water Temple is how underwhelming the boss is. Morpha is easily the worst boss of the adult dungeons and is so easily nerfed by repeatedly hookshooting it into a corner and smacking it with the biggoron sword. It dies in like 5 or 6 hits

[@raine6813]

i honestly never really minded the temple of the ocean king. i can understand how some people could hate it, but i never really had any trouble with it. sure you have to do some floors multiple times, but from what i can remember the floors are all much shorter than the other temples in the game, so its not that much of a nuisance. at least they came up with some unique puzzles and mechanics to do with the phantoms and that stuff, i thought the stealth segments were intuitive and offered a good degree of challenge. as for the timer, well its not very easy to get lost in it so that was never a problem for me, even as a dumb kid who frequently got stuck in video games

[@pretzelboi64]

Damn, I didn't expect that trash temple from Hourglass to show up. I hated that shit as a kid and it made me not buy Spirit Tracks

[@mateusfelipe5772]

About OOT's water temple, there is also a key after Dark Link battle, where we need to play song of time to move a time stone from the floor. It's very easily missed

[@maskedduelist1380]

That's exactly where I got stuck as a kid

[@mystraunt2705]

In my last playthrough this is the only part of the temple i got stuck on, flew through the rest of the temple. I was stuck there for FOUR hours though :(

[@fractalgem]

I got stuck missing that one as well.

[@navsingh9406]

Really? By that point in the game as adult link, you should of already know what to do when you see that specific stone. Odd

[@mateusfelipe5772]

@@navsingh9406 the problem is actually seeing the stone because it's hidden behind the chest

[@Latistop]

I actually greatly enjoyed the Ocean King Temple when I was a kid. I felt like an adventurer with the notes and stuff, it was great.

[@brauliozt8754]

Never had a problem with the music in The Temple of the Ocean King, I think it fits perfectly. It has a "think carefully your next move" combined with a looming "hurry up" sense, it also has a "hollow" and "poisonous" vibe, iirc the air in the temple was cursed or something so it felt like Link needed to get out of there asap.

[@NehNehPwn]

Woah woah woah. You *cannot* talk about Temple of the Ocean King without talking about how crazy inconsistent the hourglass drawings on the doors felt. I swear I spent hours just trying to get it to accept the damn drawings!

[@marvinbecker3153]

Dungeon of the ocean king is underrated, with the function to draw things on the map you could draw shortcuts in currently not available so on your next visit, you could take them.

[@VixYW]

Unless you're so on the flow that you forget to do it, then you'll be banging your head against the wall on your next visit...

[@Tailbiter231]

I found it annoying too, for sure, until I got the Phantom Sword and could kill the Phantoms. But what I found interesting about it is that it turns out to be the final dungeon, and the entire time, at the end of the temple is the lair of the Big Bad, Bellum. Which of course you can't reach until you get the Phantom Sword at the end of the game, as opposed to how in BotW and TotK you can fight the final bosses virtually right away (but with much more difficulty and a boss rush before them, which would be particularly difficult in TotK)

[@bigotis9042]

While the switching of the iron boots is annoying, that was really my only issue with the water temple. When playing the 3ds version it's one of my favorite dungeons

[@TrickyThe0ne]

On the original game you could get soft locked and have to start your whole game over.

[@azurecreed9119]

Yeah the hate is so overblown its not even all that difficult

[@azurecreed9119]

@@TrickyThe0neno it didnt softlock you its perfectly beatable you may think you softlocked but in reality you didnt pay attention to your surroundings or make a mental map of the area therefore its not a error on the games part but the player

[@TrickyThe0ne]

@@azurecreed9119 I’ve heard the original cartridges as in first release ones are soft lockable. I’ve never been soft locked in the game, but have had it happen to people.

[@azurecreed9119]

@@TrickyThe0ne i grew up with oot particularly version 1.0 and never had that happen to me

[@Catalyst512]

the water temple from majoras mask isnt even that difficult if you explore every room thoroughly before moving on and also remember to follow the pipes.

[@Jack_MxM]

The Temple of the Ocean King wasn't universally hated, it was just divisive. It's a dungeon which becomes more fun on repeat playthroughs of the game. Once you've learned the shortcuts that allow you to complete it in the most efficient way and that you can skip an entire visit if you collect two sea charts at one point, it becomes satisfying in a unique way compared to other dungeons in the series.

[@scorpionsapprentice3248]

like the water temple, this dungeon was vindicated by history but i noticed it has gotten more respect over the years.

[@netweed09]

@@scorpionsapprentice3248 The Nostalgia Mistress siren effect.

[@hedgie_doll2314]

The temple of the ocean king is why it took my like 7 years to beat phantom hourglass. It stressed me out so much as a kid I got a lot of nightmares and decided to put the game down until 2023 when I finally finished it with the help of tutorials. I want to play spirit tracks it looks much more fun

[@TuftedDreamer]

hot take phantom hourglass was fun because of the challenge. take any of that away and you get the newer 3ds versions that hold your hand. ima replay phantom hourglass now ! :) Edit: I rememberd there was 7 palm trees on the beginners island skipping a bit of that nonsense 😂

[@ghostboy463]

Of all the dungeons, I really think Temple of the Ocean King is over hated. I get that revisiting constantly is annoying, but each visit gives you new shortcuts, sometimes more loot, and other ways to cut your time down. You can also find more sand for the hourglass by using the salvage arm and treasure maps. The time limit only matters the first couple of times you visit the dungeon, after that it just becomes a non factor unless you're always getting hit by phantoms.

[@clancythesongshark8408]

I don't know if it's just me, but I never felt rushed in the temple of the Ocean king. Maybe it's because I played Phantom Hourglass before or maybe because I know the Zelda series by heart, but I never get stuck on any puzzles or paths.

[@sladevalen]

I will fully admit the hidden key under the central pillar in the water temple stumped me to the point where I quit the game. I didn't find it until I beat twilight princess and went back to ocarina of time out of anger that I couldn't win.

[@tenorNerd]

I actually really enjoyed the temple of the ocean king. Then again I also tend to love the stealth portions of Zelda games.

[@4plus20isHappy]

“I'd heard a lot of people talk up the water dungeon as some legendary puller of plonkers, but I breezed through on a single plane flight. Not even an international one, just two hours domestic, and I spent the first half-hour of it staring into space. Check the rooms you haven't been to yet, guys. It's not rocket science. Yes, I am saying that I'm smarter than you were when you were twelve.” -Yahzee, ‘Zero Punctuation’

[@markgill346]

I think I am one of the only people who enjoyed the Water Temple, the difficulty is what makes it enjoyable as you get a feeling of satisfaction you get when you complete a puzzle, yes you will spend a long time wandering around wondering what to do, but when you finally figure it out, it is satisfying.

[@saedesu4973]

I liked water temple but it had me using yt a whole lot

[@VarietyGamerChannel]

I enjoyed it but I missed the damn key below the rising platform and was stuck in there for days. This was before I even had the internet.

[@cult_ofmany-fandoms]

I liked it a lot

[@TheShinjiakamoto]

I love the water temple, but I always did think it was really easy to get lost in before I learned one simple trick that I think everyone kinda.. ignores. Using the map. Once I started using the in-game map for the water temple, it became INCREDIBLY easy, one of the easiest actually.

[@burnout713]

Other than Ganondorf's Castle at the end of Ocarina of Time, which I think is a complete masterpiece, I think the Water Temple would be my second favorite Zelda dungeon of all time.

[@argentpuck]

I don't even think of Temple of the Ocean King as a dungeon. It's a tedious timesink that acts as a plot hub. It's like the Temple of Time over Demise's prison in Skyward Sword: a place we're forced back to. But, that said, all your criticisms are completely correct.

[@andyvella4077]

I think Water Temple is the most hated because in the N64 version it FRICKIN' SUCKS

[@RPMRosie]

it's been a good while since the last time i played phantom hourglass (honestly wanna fix that), but I can't remember particularly hating the temple of the ocean king tbh

[@eeveefennecfox]

any water temple,for years I started thinking that every water temple is cursed.something bad always happens,I have countless stories from every water temple that exist in zelda

[@dpackerman4203]

Personally, my most hated dungeon(s) are the Botw and Totk dungeons, mainly because they’re way too linear and simple. Getting stuck in dungeons was what made them so iconic! Why did we need to make them too short and too easy? I think I hate Totk’s dungeons even more than Botw’s because Nintendo told us they brought back traditional dungeons, but then it became clear they did not. For that I kind of have a strong hatred for them.

[@Dracogame]

I dunno… I remember having absolutely no trouble with the Temple of the Ocean King. I thought it was very easy, maybe to compensate for the time and stress factor. I don’t think I was caught by a phantom even once.

[@linkXness]

I LOVED that one! Like, getting further and further, finding new ways, this was so unique and cool

[@18skeltor]

Something that wasn't brought up on the Water Dungeon which can make it especially difficult to complete. If you don't unfreeze the King Zora after the red flame dungeon, you will have a limited air supply when underwater, about 7 seconds per heart. This is really gruesome when trying to get the key under the central pillar, as it takes around a minute and twenty seconds to complete, and if you have only a few hearts it can literally be impossible to get through in time.

[@BaconNuke]

You can buy a Zora Tunic in Zora's Domain... King Zora just gives one for free...

[@OtakuUnitedStudio]

​@@BaconNukeYou also have to thaw the doorway to the shop. Unless you go back in time and buy one as a kid.

[@Callie_with_a_bible]

At that point that's YOUR fault, the Ice Cave teaches you that blue fire destroys red ice. Then the player earlier realizes King Zora was covered in red ice, you go, thaw him out and be done with it. You can't miss the Zora King as well, he's literally right there

[@pinkdarkman]

This reminds me, when I first played OOT as a kid, I didn't know about the Bottom of the Well dungeon or lens of truth, so I brute forced the Shadow Temple and got pretty far in, to the part where there's jail cells and giant invisible blocks you have to push. At that point, my frustration was pushed over the edge and I looked up a walkthrough, which is how I found out about the Lens of Truth lol. Kids will bruteforce their way through anything if you make it possible. Also, this was the early 2010s and I was convinced this was just "Nintendo 64 level difficuly" lol.

[@Normonator]

​@@pinkdarkmanouch I did this in like 2000 but it took a lot longer until someone told me later on.

[@chichopo_ow2758]

I love how both PH and the Ocean King Temple are one of my fav games and dungeons in all of Zelda, and people constantly shit on them XD. I get the criticism, and both are by no means perfect, but I like them. That's what matters :D

[@BottomBunkArt]

Really? Temple of the Ocean King? That’s what you think is the worst dungeon?

[@PixelDough]

Absolutely shocked when you said Temple of the Ocean King, quite possibly my favorite zelda dungeon... Also, I would argue that Skyward Sword's spirit realms were another kind of dungeon like this one. Skyward Sword is notorious for every one of it's locations basically being dungeons in disguise, and the spirit world challenges felt so much like the Temple of the Ocean King with how the time limit and stealth works I'd say the OoT ocean temple is far closer to being "most hated". The Temple of the Ocean King just isn't to everyone's taste, but it's really not that challenging nor tedious, and as you improve at the game and gain new tools, you get a strong sense of your growth with each visit, like playing Dark Souls and revisiting an area from early in the game after gaining so many levels.

[@Dave-og2ui]

So glad to see a new video from you!!! I think the most hated is OoTs Water temple. Mainly because it's so well known due to OoT being so iconic

[@GameEssays]

Reports of my death have been greatly exaggerated

[@bigotis9042]

I've personally always loved the water temple (in the 3d version at least)

[@crazzylemon9929]

It’s a decent DS Zelda entry that I think deserves more praise. Obviously being biased from nostalgia but I thought this was a really good game and don’t see why this is the most hated. How many dungeons in the series are replayable? “Oh wait I got to go back to that 1 spot in the deku tree because I have bombs now” It’s a nice idea and I think it’s implemented better. That doesn’t mean it’s not annoying at times but that’s the fun of going back through, finding faster ways to descend and being clever with what path and your time management.

[@stranger6822]

Ocean King temple still sounds better than the wild and tears dungeons. After all, it's actually a dungeon. I got the dungeon feel exactly one time between wild and tears, and that was in the first few minutes of the desert pyramid temple in tears.

[@Orciwan548]

Gotta say as a kid I loved this game and this dungeon. I definitely get why it would be hated but for me the pressure and optimizing my speed was super fun throughout.

[@payton9665]

I knew it would be rhe Temple of the Ocean King before I even watched it. I remember playing this game as a kid and neing frustrated with the time limit. Although even though its tedious and annoying to redo all of the floors I don't hate it. And aside from the temple it's actually a really good Zelda game. I wish a lot of people didn't hate on it just because of the temple in it.

[@timedasher]

I agree, also there's the fact that you use the stylus to control Link and by accident you can make Link swing his sword, this makes a noise and alert the guards who will come to punish you

[@lilwyvern4]

Great Bay temple is awful, but I'll still take it over Snowhead. Great Bay at least gets a bit easier to get around once you've got the item, but Snowhead is always a bastard with all those goron jumps. At least Goht is a cool boss.

[@GameEssays]

Snowhead can really suck if you fall

[@joe-edward]

Well researched and good points. I happen to be playing through Phantom Hourglass right now, my second play through. Just having played through the TotOK the first time in this new play through, I found myself thinking about a lot of your points. Good choice.

[@AReaverZappy]

The most obnoxious zelda dungeon to me was jabu jabu's belly in oracle of ages. The pathing in that dungeon was VERY specific, and required a lot of backtracking for even the simplest of mistakes.

[@wolkeninsel6108]

I like the change of temple scenes with the sound of the music at the beginning

[@doughboy_6439]

Temple of the Ocean King serves a very different purpose from the dungeons in other games. It's not the only one that you recurse to, but it *is* the only one where the 'keys' to the next section are scattered among the other dungeons. Rather than being an individual progress marker, it's a gradual progress *indicator.*

[@hist150project5]

Honestly I love the water dungeons. I love the complex intricate puzzle-box design. My most hated dungeons are BotW and TotK's "dungeons". While there may have been dungeons in other games that were more underwhelming, those were usually a one off dud in a game filled with great dungeons, whereas in BotW and TotK these disappointing excuses of dungeons is all get.

[@asdfghjkl2261]

Jabu-Jabu in Oracle of Ages is easily one of my all-time favorite Zelda dungeons

[@1un4cy]

All the temples are pretty great, the only gripe about the water temple in ocarina is the constant menu'ing the switch boots, which was fixed very well with quickswap in later editions.

[@yoshidababies4222]

I feel seen!! This was the dungeon I thought of when I saw your video title. Exactly all you said! The repeated backtracking gets really annoying, along with the dull music, and I REALLY hate time constraints above anything else in a game (which is why I gave up on MM). I've never replayed PH since I was a teenager, but I have replayed ST, which says something. One thing I did like about the dungeon was the notes ability with the stylus, however. I liked making notes for the fastest ways, and adding more and more notes and getting faster with each return. But a more immersive soundtrack would have made it a better experience, for sure.

[@theplinko9840]

You do realize that there is no time constraint in Majora’s Mask, right?

[@dre2culjackson367]

8:23 😂 😂 the Deku Link rotating during that theme caught me off guard lol. I spit my drink out

[@Dayserking]

I’m surprised there wasn’t even a small mention of City in the Sky 😂

[@KingRaatz]

Somehow, the inclusion of the Double Clawshots and a cinamatic, but piss easy, boss in Argorok makes everyone forget how awful the actual dungeon is. Like, I LOVE the Clawshots, but that is one of the only things preventing me from hating that dungeon even more. I dread doing that dungeon every playthrough. Not as much as I dread the following dungeon, though...

[@iop283]

@@KingRaatz honnestly the whole game gets so painfully slow and lengthy after the temple of time it really feels like the developper were on a rush and clawing at anything that could add content.

[@DeepSeaBeee]

The double hook shots are just so fun lol 😂

[@Tpike777]

I dont dread the water temple at all in OOT, I think its actually a pretty well designed temple given it being a literal first attempt at a 3D zelda game. It was one of nintendos first several 3D games period. But I like it because the temple has a ton of atmosphere, Just entering it and seeing inside for the first time is perfect. The music is fantastic, it has the best mini boss fight and the longshot right after it. Plus I like the fact that its the only temple I can still stumble on when I replay OOT occasionally. Unforunteately has the most anti climactic boss fight in the entire game tho.

[@kennghost]

This video made me realize I never beat Phantom Hourglass and indeed gave up at this part. Must have repressed that memory

[@carlosmiravete1159]

The tower of spirits is better than the temple of the ocean king bcuz there’s no time limit and you don’t have to start every time from scratch

[@AlexsGoogleAccount]

I LOVED the Temple of the Ocean King. Every time you go back, you have new items that give you new ways to advance in it. And a lot of the shortcuts are very creative. Because of your new items, each time you go through the temple, you do it in a different way. It's satisfying when you realize you can use your hookshot on two torches to completely skip the Tri-Force room. It's satisfying when you realize that using the top-right exit in a level (requiring a Bombchu) would allow you to carry an extra key into a later room, bypassing a more difficult phantom floor altogether towards the top of the temple. You can even leave notes for yourself on the map so you don't forget the shortcuts. And it's especially satisfying when you've successfully implemented a route that gets you to the checkpoint with 0 seconds spent. (If you're within 30 seconds, you probably forgot that you can open the room with the Triforce symbol, grab its extra time, then exit it and open the room using the Hourglass) And the changing nature of the temple works the farther you progress in the story. You can rush through using the checkpoint and shortcuts, but if you have the Phantom Sword, you can also kill all of the phantoms on each floor for the new treasures and ship parts that generate when they're all dead. You could even plan a route through the temple that rushes through the floors that give treasures and takes time on the ones that give ship parts. I can see why someone who didn't like the temple would HATE having to return to it, and I don't think this concept would work well in a 3D Zelda Game (the simplicity of the map and graphics makes it a lot more manageable) but I find myself taking my time more in the temple whenever I replay this game.

[@greenpotato4796]

I really liked the temple of the ocean king. The way new paths and strategies open up as you obtain more items is just really cool to me. Maybe cut one or two visits or make the difference between runs through new items bigger or more noticable and i think it wouldn't be an issue. And lets be honest, going in at the end with the master sword and being able to kill the phantoms you had to hide from for so long just feels so good

[@squifurgie]

I was one of those people who gave up on Phantom Hourglass. This was mostly due to the temple of the ocean king. It is hard to believe that it made it through the testing phases during development of that game.

[@Gondorf5]

Honestly,, Temple of the Ocean King was really fun. Never had any issues with it, and it felt so good getting to the end of it. The only part where I got held up was a bit where you have to close the DS, which blew my mind when I accidentally figured it out. Going back to get better times in that dungeon felt extremely satisfying, and very faithful to the original experiencing of exploring a world in Zelda. In addition, the time limit feature gets extended by exploring every corner of the map for extra sand, which feels like a great way to reward the player for doing that. In other words, Temple of the Ocean King is core to what makes the Phantom Hourglass a great game.

[@ellewoodford262]

really? i love the temple of the ocean king. yall just sucked at it, i can easily get a less than 30 second half time and as a kid had a literally 0 second half time

[@xlsfd]

For Temple of the Ocean King, the SE and NE charts CAN be gotten in the same visit. However, I admit that in order to do that, you need to know how the lowest floors work already.

[@tatlxtael2303]

I was super critical of it when it first released but honestly the temple of the ocean king was really well thought out progression wise. Though they did do a similar dungeon with the sequel game but they fixed a lot of complaints

[@burnout713]

I thought the tower in Spirit Tracks was so much worse than Temple of the Ocean King. I can take stealth mixed with limited time no problem. But when it comes to slowly guiding Princess Zelda's statue thing in the complete dark, I'm out.

[@RaffyTheSeagull]

I agree about the music, the dungeon theme from A link to the Past (which is also Bellum's theme) would have suited wonderfully instead of this one. The temple of the Ocean king was the height of anxiety to me as a child, precisely because of the limited time and the invulnerable enemies who are searching for you out in the corridors. You can't imagine how proud I was of myself when I finally finished the game! :) (I thought the terror of the limited time/stealth mix was behind me, and then along came Skyward Sword with the psysalis 💀.)

[@iFish12]

Phantom Hourglass was the first Zelda game I ever completed. I have very fond memories of the temple of the ocean king

[@nursejuys]

Ey. I played phantom hourglass wayback then i find it challenging and never complained about it. I remember internet is not yet quite accessible that time so you won't be able to access walkthroughs. Maybe it varies with people though 🤔

[@pengie_]

as soon as the temple of the ocean king ost started playing i got a rush of nostalgia like i was playing the game again, in the moment with the story i think it was actually a pretty alright tempe with some fun puzzles

[@randalthor2859]

The most hated Zelda dungeon is definitely OoTs Water Temple. Far more people played it to hate it.

[@hilly8000]

Are you kidding me i loved the Ocean Kings temple

[@Heart0Darkness]

Temple of the Ocean King is not even that bad. Everyone is dogpiling on top of it the way everybody hated The Ocarina of Time Water Temple a couple of years ago.

[@xxramenxx6086]

In my personal opinion, I have just two words to say... Me personally, I think phantom hourglass was a great game and all, and the Temple of the Ocean King is a cool dungeon, and I think it's what makes the game unique and fun - plus the concept of the time limit really gives you the ability to think harder about any puzzles, and it even is a fun challenge. That being said, my 2 words I must say are skill, and issue.

[@caiomachi]

agree

[@justmoa186]

I don't understand why people hate the temple of the ocean king so much... Yes, you go in the temple many times, but you also get better items for exploring faster and discover new passages. Yes, there is a time limit, but it doesn't make a difference. There is so much yellow jar for giving you more time that my timer say I travel half the dungeon in just one second. Yes, the specters are immortal for quite a long time, but it's because it's a stealth dungeon, you have to be careful. If the specters were killable, that will ruin the whole thing. Yes, the specters oneshot you. But it's not a game over, that's just a little penalty. And it's not like it's too difficult to avoid these specters. That's not a bad dungeon, it's even pretty good to do what it was supposed to do : be a stealthy dungeon and not be too repetitive at each visits. And for the music, yes, it's generic. But you need to concentrate in a stealthy dungeon, so I don't think we can make a great music without deconcentrate the players. It's not really a bad music, it's a music for background. I don't think people hate this music, most of them just probably didn't even notice it. The people who don't appreciate this dungeon just don't like this kind of gameplay. The gameplay isn't bad, that's just not the type of dungeon for everyone. Maybe I like this dungeon cuz I like when the game want me to infiltrate. Or because I like redo the same thing over and over for becoming better and better at doing it (like a speedrun). This dungeon is good, just not the best I supposed. But I can understand that if you don't like this dungeon, you don't like the game. If you don't like the main piece, you can't really enjoy the rest. The water dungeon of Ocarina of time in the other hand, are truly horrible... But if you played it on 3ds, you don't understand my pain... When you miss a key and you have to backtracking, it's already painful. But when the map is just unreadable and so you don't know which corridor is the good one, that you take one randomly, that you need to open your inventory, one second of delay, equip the boots, close the inventory, one second of delay, sink, move 10 meters, open the inventory, one second of delay, unequip the boots, close the inventory, one second of delay, exit the water, and the realize it's not the good corridor, and you have to do all of this a second time, when your emulator is already lagging... You just want to scream You don't know how much I LOVE the iron boots of the remake And for the final word, I love writing. Like, a LOT also good video