The Most HATED TCG Mechanic Designs | TCG R&D

[@peterattilaradivojevics5645]

I like how 2 of the problems mentioned was solved by SW Unlimited by just simply saying "Eh, screw having turns."

[@ValdiosBlaster]

The person talking about Triggers is talking about Shield Triggers in particular. The mechanic of attacking the opponent, they add a card to their hand, and if the card attacked has a trigger, it can be played for free.

[@ShardTCG]

Oh, okay! I thought their comment "triggered" an interesting discussion anyway. I'm sorry for my misunderstanding.

[@FrigidViridescence]

To each their own, I guess. I love the shield trigger mechanic. Nothing beats the feeling from coming back from a near loss situation into equaling the playing field. Kinda gives you like the anime feel where the protagonist powers-up via the power of friendship. lol. Again, it needs to be balanced. If the shield trigger effect gets you from losing situation and then instantly turns the match 180 degrees into a winning situation, then it is bad card design.

[@ValdiosBlaster]

@@FrigidViridescence yeah I know people who both love and hate them. It's a very divisive mechanic. I think they're best implemented if they're less swingy than cards like holy awe.

[@OttaviusAeterna]

the "trigger" cards mentioned might refer to the "trigger units" used in cardfight vanguard, EX burst cards in Final Fantasy TCG, and weiss schwarz's "climax cards" in addition to the "shield triggers" used in duel master and the likes. These types of "trigger cards" do in fact add more luck based aspects to the game, for better or worse.

[@fernandobanda5734]

This

[@PsychoticSashimiS]

I hate vanguard's trigger system but love Weiss because it has more skill and manipulation, plus it better tests your memory Granted, this is helped by the fact triggers are generally weaker in Weiss and have less of an overall effect on the game

[@etnoxfactaest-qk9bd]

COPY THAT LINK. Copy link= the algorithm thinking that you’re going to share the video, meaning someone else is going to watch.

[@rmt3589]

14:43 Actually, that might be a solution I needed. Instead of drawing at start of turn, draw to handsize at the end. And to balance First Turn Advantage, the player who goes first could have handsize-1.

[@PERIX_QR]

3:20 The problem can be fixed depending on the core design of your tcg. One way would be to make it so a player going first simply won't matter to the game. Making it so it wouldn't provide any advantage to the player. A digital ccg like marvel snap fixes this problem by simply removing the cause of the problem. The game ends after a fixed amount of turns and cannot end before that unless somone concedes. The winner is the player who manages to get more points in 2 out of 3 location thus winning them. The turns are also simultaneous. So no player goes first.

[@MrNoob_11]

I think combos (infinite, big finite, or non-deterministic) are good for the game since it gives a cool win condition to Johnny's. You just need to make sure the deck the combo goes into isn't too powerful and has meaningful counter play.

[@dudono1744]

Infinites are basically guaranteed to pop up at some point.

[@jmurray1110]

Not if you stick everything with a HOPT

[@Will_Forge]

2:40 I think one solution we may see become more common is simultaneous turn order games. Games where both players choose their actions and then flip them to find out the result of an encounter. I can think of several unique ways to accomplish this style of play that could all coexist in the marketplace as different complementary card games. Gosh, one day the lot of us will get together to make the perfect card game and kickstart a truly successful game on the order of the greats. Maybe on that day it will be a game of this design.

[@ARDIZsq]

I like the Pokémon TCG answer to the first turn advantage issue. The player who goes first can’t attack AND they can’t play a Supporter, a powerful once per turn type of card. It means that they still get a chance to set up, but the player who goes second doesn’t have to worry about things like getting donked by a high damage low cost attacker, or worry about a Supporter majorly disrupting their hand.

[@abelw.6033]

I've made a tactical card game played on a 9x9 grid with some of my friends (approx. 500 unique cards). To address really powerful cards that would give one player a superior advantage over another, I have put a lot of those abilities onto Terrain cards - cards that don't do anything unless there is a soldier occupying that tile on the map, and then whichever player controls that soldier gets the benefit of that powerful Terrain. Essentially, this allows powerful cards to be controlled by any player and gives players an incentive to fight for the ability to control that tile.

[@yaboismashing5066]

4:10 DONT DO THIS any card as resource isn't a fix, it's an option. Mana doesn't need to be fixed, but you can take another route like yigioh and vanguard

[@revimfadli4666]

To truly make it an option, have both "all cards can be resource" and "non-basic lands but without summoning sickness and with other advantages to incentivise using them despite all other cards having the potential as resource"

[@revimfadli4666]

You know what needs no be fixed? Being stuck with dedicated resources, yugioh, and vanguard as the only references. Even Flesh and Blood and Chronoclash showed how to break that mold

[@tomfjallstrom5196]

Keyforge is a great example of a game that does not have 1 card draw. You always draw up to a full hand, which means discarding is effectively equal to drawing into a better card. Then again, Keyforge is balanced by the fact that your cards are split across 3 houses and you can only play from a single house at a time, so the game doesn't just become you shotgunning (or pendulum summoning *cough cough*) everything from your hand out

[@PawDieFur]

My game I’ve been making and tweaking for 7 years helps with a lot of issues. 1: floodgates. -most of the floodgates are only affecting one side of what can be played. However they are specific to card types and are removed after the battle. The battle is a “both players play at the same time” part while everything before is just the turn player. 2: first turn advantage: - both players cannot attack their first turn. The second player gets a +1 to their field called the hospital. (This gives them 1 extra “recovery” card resource.) ontop of that creatures that have battled become tapped. Tapped creatures cannot be targeted by the opponents creatures for attacks.

[@ShardTCG]

It's great that you have addressed these issues in your game. I know many that overlook some of these things.

[@PawDieFur]

@@ShardTCG it’s kinda why my game has been taking 7+ years to even make. A lot of moving parts, psct, mechanics, etc. I’ve been trying to push a game I bought into in ks to slow down on trying to produce it out asap and start fixing a lot of its issues mechanically. (Game is wonders of the first).

[@Muhahahahaz]

16:13 “Duel Purpose Cards” Them’s fightin’ words! 🤺

[@TheJaguar1983]

"No shuffling once the game starts" In digimon, all of our search is "reveal the top X and select Y, button deck the rest." There's positives and negatives to that, but I like not having to shuffle the deck during the game.

[@ShardTCG]

Me too. I enjoy the Digimon card game. I try not to mention it too many times in case I form a biases in my videos.

[@Magicannon_]

Coming from this as a Magic player perspective, the mana system does get ragged on a lot, and while it does make feel bads I do think it makes for interesting strategic gameplay and deckbuilding. Moving to a Hearthstone-like system where mana is automatically generated doesn't really feel right as I feel it takes away from a turbo-ramp strategy where a deck seeks to use its early turns to get as many resources out as possible at the detriment of its early to mid game board state. A Lorcana-like ink system is a little bit closer, and Magic has delved into this a little recently with dual-faced cards with a spell on one side and a land on the other. But, making mana generic ruins the whole color system and risk-reward for running more colors. If you just go the MDFC approach on everything, then it also homologizes the mechanics. Now you're kind of stuck with a select few ramp methods without much creative room to expand on, plus also making other dual-face card concepts impossible. An Inscryption-like concept of a second deck with guaranteed resources is another concept, but that feels like it generalizes strategies and lowers variance too far. It can also feel slower when you're forced to draw resources to outright refuse to draw cards that actually do things. It's certainly not perfect, but I couldn't really think of Magic without its mana system. For infinite combos, it would be nice to stop easy ones to set up under 4 cards or so, but beyond that it's more of a Rube Goldberg machine that is just fun to set up. Not only that, but Magic benefits from smaller numbers of stuff and things being capable of making much larger numbers, often not deterministically infinite. It just is possible with its current design space, and that makes it fun. Doing cool stuff and making many 5 power things eventually allowing you to deal over 100 damage in a turn is fun. There can be weaknesses that can be exploited in these strategies as well, which is also fun.

[@TheJaguar1983]

In Digimon, our flood gates are all low-level, weak digimon that only block one particular type of special effect. They're easy to kill, and their usefulness is very dependent on who you are facing.

[@Stroggoii]

Giving stronger effects to cards with weakers stats is a simple but rare solution to "unavoidable" power creep.

[@jmurray1110]

Missing the timing I understand for some effects like negation of activation or effect but chainblocking to force a fizzle isn’t fun If and when shouldn’t be this difficult Also more of a formatting thing but semi colons to indicate cost

[@petersmythe6462]

The fact Pokemon has a +6 card advantage card is wild to me, even if it is a supporter.

[@QueenMelody16]

Seeing some of the comments about trigger cards kinda has me wondering your thoughts on prize cards as used in Pokémon TCG and shield/life cards as used in Duel Masters, One Piece, Digimon, and any other such games.

[@Octarinewolf]

I quite liked Netrunners 3 action per turn that could be generating expendable resources, drawing cards or playing cards, or attacking as a way of dealing with resources.

[@Zutang777]

You always make every video, fun, entertaining, and informative all at the same time. Such a force for positivity.

[@ShardTCG]

I love to learn, but I also know how much of a drag it can be. Thank you for the kind and positive words.

[@petersmythe6462]

I feel like discarding a card every time you play a card is a pretty deadly effect.l against a deck that isn't full of graveyard effects. Not quite a yata but it is still going to mean everything your opponent does is -2 card advantage.

[@petersmythe6462]

Re: how to balance l first turn advantage? Make everything interaction and turns only affect who plays first in an open game state, with untap and draw phases being simultaneous.

[@petersmythe6462]

There is a slight second turn advantage here in that I can play my card with equal spell speed on top of yours if I go second. This does encourage passing your turn if you think that both you and your opponent have equal spell speed cards that can be played in an open game state but would be better with played as a reaction to one another. To counter this tendency, one option would be to double down on second turn advantage by making passing on an open game state forfeit the right to counter at equal spell speed.

[@GroundThing]

On the topic of duel purpose cards, if I understand it correctly, one could look at the VS system TCG as a way around it. You use cards as both resources and as characters/effects, but some cards (Plot Twists, Locations, and Reservist heroes) can be played from the resourse row, to get the best of both worlds. However if you do go that way, I would recommend not using their Threshold mechanic for playing them (instead of a resource cost, you only need a given number of resources in play), as it makes those cards a bit too free (doesn't cost a card, because the card is still a resource, and doesn't cost resources) meaning the effects had to be quite limited.

[@ShardTCG]

Best of both worlds. This is a format I am looking into right now. Sometimes, the risk of setting a card as a resource is a positive as it can be seen as a part of the thrill of the game. But I do like that having access to Burning resources for playable cards also fixes issues such as a lack of options in your hand.

[@yaboismashing5066]

15:00 Deck stacking......why else would I shuffle?

[@younasdar5572]

17:24 It also promotes good deckbuilding. Starter decks or Casual players decks often have only one or two copies of the best most impactful cards that the deck revolves around. If you didn't figure out that you should build your deck consistently yourself, having to ressource your only copy of your best card I guess is sure to teach you that you had better put the Maximum amount of them in your deck. Sure it isn't a nice way to learn but if you learn from it your future games, of any TCG, will be more enjoyable either way.

[@ShardTCG]

One of the important things when it comes to TCGs is having that sense of ownership of your deck. So, I prefer a starter deck to be missing a few good cards or lacking the maximum copies of those key cards. This allows me as a player to explore options and build a deck to my preferences. I love it.

[@younasdar5572]

@@ShardTCG I only said that the fewer copies will have a player in a any card as ressource game realize they should have more. I haven't said that it is bad for a starter Deck to be built that way, they are supposed to be Tools for learning and not fully functional Tournament Decks. I do think that starter decks having either all playsets or all 1 offs is better, otherwise it leads to people buying multiple starter decks for exclusive or just guaranteed cards and ending up with a lot of useless bulk, but that is seperate from my earlier Statement.

[@thefirstwarlock]

it was star wars destiny that had the dice mechanism, The video clip you showed was for Star wars unlimited, no dice mechanism, so far

[@ShardTCG]

That's my editors fault. I mean, I am my own editor, but let's not point fingers here.

[@TheJaguar1983]

I assume "dual-purpose cards" is referring to things like DBZ using normal cards as mana (or whatever is called in that game)

[@ShardTCG]

Yeah, you got it.

[@GaleOfTheVale]

I think first turn advantage was handled well in the L5R LCG with simultaneous turns and alternating game actions.

[@ShardTCG]

Good one. I'll have to bring that up in a future video. Thanks.

[@SparePartsCartoon]

What about a card that requires another card to successfully use?

[@jmurray1110]

It would probably depend on the extent The difference between a 1.5 card starter, a searcher, a “fusion”, a simple mana system, or an effect chain (hard to describe what I mean here but yugioh a spirit of the pharaoh if you want an example)

[@azraksash]

Legends of Runeterra fixed first turn advantage by making both players share game rounds

[@0penthaughtz]

I think, a good idea for a video, would be about common & or Universal terms, VS quirky terms. For example in almost Every card game out there the pile of cards you draw from is called a (Deck), however there are card games where they've renamed the deck something like elese such as MTG calls is your (library). Is using a universally term like deck better than creating your own?

[@ShardTCG]

I like this idea. It could peak some interests! I'll have a look around and see what I find. Everyone likes a good few keywords.

[@0penthaughtz]

​@@ShardTCG Sounds good, also the now failed TCG Metazoo is another great example of renaming and or creating new terms as well.

[@JakeTheJay]

Seeing the TCG R&D videos on my feed makes me wanna delve back into making my own game. OF course I always struggle to find a resource system I like. >v>;

[@RarecuisineSaucegod-ig8bc]

he made a great video about solving problems backwards. try making your game without a resource system. and then find a way to add one in that works with what youve got going on.

[@guijauregui]

I believe "single card per turn" meant _playing_ a single card per turn, not drawing one.

[@jacobbrown9894]

I think there are a few bad takes here from commenters tbh but I think calling infinites a mechanic is just inherently dumb. It’s not a mechanic it’s a situation that can arise from cards just working. And it’s only like really a problem if like they’re popping up when the game still has a small card pool (indicative of sloppy design) or is like conquering major tournaments.

[@ShardTCG]

You're right. It's not a mechanic. It's a byproduct of a mechanic at best. It's also something that can be easily prevented. But without measures in place, I would worry about looping effects. For individual creators, these types of things can easily happen as they don't have a big team of playtesters to give the game the attention it needs.

[@Paddlecards]

Hello! Ive been a longtime fan for a while and just made a new account and also looking to share my TCG’s 🙂❤️ I appreciate your inspiration

[@ShardTCG]

Thank you! Welcome back, I guess (☞ﾟヮﾟ)☞

[@phorchybug3286]

Yeah, I hate main deck mana. Makes the game unplayable on a coin flip. Too much luck. Not enough freedom.

[@raysandrarexxia941]

Oh hey I am in the background this time! We should get a video on Errata vs Ban Lists

[@ShardTCG]

Hmm... I could throw a poll up to see what everyone's preferences are. Personally, I'd prefer the option to be able to play a nerfed card over outright banning it.

[@raysandrarexxia941]

@@ShardTCG I'm mixed on it. Errata is good if there is a physical reprint, otherwise it's too much rules referencing.

[@SpacepoetYT]

I think digital TCGs make errata look like such an easy an sweet solution, while in physical it is the forbidden fruit. Yugiohs errata'd cards make it infinitely more difficult for historic players of the game, and collectors, to keep up with the game as it is currently played. As someone who doesnt keep up with yugioh, I can't even sit down with my Yugioh cube that i finished in 2015 and play it with my current yugioh playing friends because we are not on the same page about which cards have which effects, or what rules text we should be using on some of the games most prolific cards. In my opinion there is no excuse for this, since yugioh is already well know for just reprinting iconic creatures with new forms and additions to their name and new effects, that the classic historic versions of the creatures should have never been changed. You can't "undo" 20 years of player memory and play experience with your historic cards by just deciding to change the text box and saying its still the same card, its insulting.

[@tmsern4341]

Interesting video, i would add power creep can become a massive turn off for new players. I don't think anyone can make a (homemade) TCG with out a little power creep especially if it's been worked on for years! You do need to add something interesting for your game to different than the many many others out there, not to mention the BIG ONES. I've been working on my own TCG (title work in progress, "Sudia", a terrestrial planet the size of Jupiter with the mysteryious energy commonly called Psy-Energy. Yep this planet will have some history to it whether it makes into the game or not.LOL) for about a year or so off and on and it went through ALOT of changes, like card design/layout card types, resources used and common mechanics for my game to function. I'm using my very very many drawings i did through out the years as the bases for the artwork, so i figured i'll get through that part first while tweaking the rules and adding some new cards along the way. This has worked really well for me so far. I did decide to use MTG method of using keywords, looks alot cleaner on the card than a tome of text. HAHAHA Also, no computer graphics, just good O' hand drawn and colored in using markers instead of colored pencils and their fancy brotheren. I'm using normal white poster board, it's not too expensive and it's decently study, a single large type of PB an have about 50 maybe more cards on it. I have the various card types layout also on poster board outlined in permanent marker so i can trace the layout easily. I will make a KZbin channel about my card game from it's origins to what it has become now once i feel i have the rules and interactions more polished and more cards to show off at least a decent idea of what the game is about. But that's been put on hold for a while due to IRL stuff . I do plan on using the game crafter maybe to professionally print my cards. The only digital bit I'll do will be for the text because my hand writing isn't the greatest which is why i won't be writing on the final version of the cards.

[@ShardTCG]

I look forward to seeing your youtube channel pop up and follow your homemade TCG journey. I'll always be watching 👀 No pressure.

[@tmsern4341]

@@ShardTCG thx I'm hoping things calm down enough that i can at least have a few videos out by the end of this year. 🤗

[@basementhomie2674]

@tmsern4341 lemme know whenever you make an Instagram or something with some cards I would like to see them fr fr

[@thesaurusakasickakatheomc7688]

1. Any TCG with no resource cards in your deck, or ones where any card could be made into a resource might as well let players choose their ideal opening hands. If you don't like variance, play a different game. 2. I will never understand why people saying they don't like combos is taken any more seriously than if someone were to say they don't like aggro.

[@trevorschumann5808]

Tf do u mean by “if you don’t like variance, play a different game”? If they’re playing a game where cards are a resource like you mentioned, they already are playing a different game. Do you really enjoy drawing an opening hand and seeing no lands? Is that kind of variance fun?

[@thesaurusakasickakatheomc7688]

@trevorschumann5808 Perhaps I was too vague. I meant they should play games like chess that have no variance. Thought that would be obvious from context. And yes, I do find the mulligan system rewarding. Part of what makes MTG the best game is that you can't just memorize the perfect line to maximize your win rate. You have to work with what you're given and solve that puzzle.

[@Binzob]

@@thesaurusakasickakatheomc7688 So you're saying a game like SWU has little to no variance? I can't argue that Magic has more variance than it due to having lands (and of course an obscenely larger card pool but ignoring that), but there is still plenty of variance in other games without them. Variance isn't the end all be all, as long as a card game has enough variance to not get boring after a handful of plays that's good enough. Chess though, yawn.

[@Serjohn]

the worst mechanic of all time is duel masters gachapon, they tried to copy synchros from yugioh, but instead of choosing your synchro...........you get a random one like a gachapon machines. Which results to situational synchros being garbage and the most generic ones being even more expensive.

[@ShardTCG]

It's the difference between good and bad randomness. Duel Masters included randomness in a part of a game where you had to invest with additional risk. It's scary and frustrating for players.

[@petersmythe6462]

We know how to prevent infinite combos because we live in a world where infinite combos are impossible. The problem is this means everything needs to have cost and there need to be hard conservation laws. How are you gonna do that in a mechanically interesting TCG?

[@petersmythe6462]

And even then it does not prevent overpowered combos. You know, one neutron generates two generates four generates eight etc.

[@Cameron-ds9xs]

Think you’re missing the point on shuffling, I hate it because tutors and constant searching makes the game take forever.

[@ShardTCG]

Ah, I didn't think about dragging out games. Yeah, that's an annoyance. I was too focused on the RNG side of the issue.

[@RobertJW]

No Stone Rain in your game!

[@ShardTCG]

No stone rain card and no death touch keyword either.

[@Serjohn]

my least fav mechanic is games that discourage situational cards, hearthstone for the longest time had a creature that destroys a weapon, but only 5 out of 9 classes had weapons, or destroy a secret and only 4 out of 9 classes had secrets. Just give all classes weapons and secrets.

[@ShardTCG]

Exactly. If the card is too niche, then it wont see play. Make the niche a bonus effect on a card with a basic universal effect and then you have a below tier card with situational OP potential.

[@OGEdger]

That's a neat accent. New Jersey?

[@ShardTCG]

Newcastle. About 3300 miles east of New Jersey.

[@ShardTCG]

Also, thank you. I'm glad you like the Geordie accent.

[@criticalpoizon]

​@@ShardTCGCloser to regular Jersey 😂

[@dovesr0478]

Just saying, Digimon solves all these problems 👀

[@ShardTCG]

Digimon is my TCG of choice these days. I'm not blind to it's issues but they do address so many problems other games have.

[@KamenRiderPhoenix]

First!

[@yuviaro3511]

is this video bait?

[@ShardTCG]

I don't see how. I proposed the question to people: What is their most hated TCG mechanics? Then, from their feedback, I created this video.