The Most Important Filmmaker You Haven't Heard Of

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When discussing groundbreaking films, we tend to talk a lot about the vision of the writer/director. But does that leave out a part of the story? Let's take a look at the role of the editor and see who had more influence on the film than you may think.
Learn more about female film editors at womenfilmeditor...
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Patreon: bit.ly/1UaO9MU
#DedeAllen #WhoGetsCredit

[@Scarabola]

Me, sees thumbnail: ha, you think I don't know who John Hughes is? Lmao! Me, sees video: oh.

[@KiraFriede]

Exactly what I thought too.

[@dr_volberg]

Same.

[@michaelstuart341]

I'm surprised you've heard of John Hughes. He's pretty indie

[@lounowell4171]

you all realise that was clearly intentional right you're not sharing in a quirky coincidence of misinterpretation, just got collectively duped

[@RealGlowup]

😂 yes! It got us all good sir 🧐

[@mja2317]

Worth mentioning that George Miller's wife Margaret Sixel edited Mad Max: Fury Road. And it's one of the best edited films of the decade along with Parasite and Whiplash.

[@AnnaGirardini]

I was scrolling the comment section looking for someone mentioning that movie!

[@futurestoryteller]

Thought I heard she had no experience on top of all that, but her Wikipedia says her work goes back at least as far as "Babe: Pig in the City"

[@giascle]

When asked why he chose his wife to edit his film, Miller observed that she had never cut an action movie before, and that if it were to be edited by "the usual kind of guys, it would look like every other action movie we see."

[@FanGali]

Whiplash... really? Hhhhh.... no offense, but you need more culture and shut it a little (no offense to Margaret Sixel, though)

[@ggthtrhr]

parasite is overrated

[@purplehaze2358]

Editing is actually a lot like audio design. It’s almost only noticed when it’s done poorly.

[@MrThrillzone]

“if you do too much people get dependent on you. And if you do nothing, they lose hope…when you do things right, people won’t be sure you’ve done anything at all.”

[@djstarsign]

I recently watched Mauvais Sang and the editing is some of the most energetic and compelling I’ve ever seen. It give the film a dynamic rhythm and stylistic presence that I’ve seen employed in other films but none has had the same impact.

[@ГалимаАдамівнасмтБздянськ]

“It's like a plumber: do your job right and nobody should notice. But when you fuck it up, everything gets full of shit.”

[@thomas4233]

Must be why Bohemian Rapsody got noticed so much

[@ryadh456]

True

[@henryglennon3864]

That Sally Menke died after Inglorious Basterds explains so much about Tarantino's last three films.

[@cannonfodder4000]

I had no idea that's awful! I loved django, havent seen hateful eight and didnt like Once Upon a Time that much

[@henryglennon3864]

@@cannonfodder4000 I love Django too, but I'm sure that a lot of people can agree that the final act is almost two acts bolted together. Once Upon is good, but I think could really benefit from some trimming, and Hateful 8 is 33-50% lard. I think that knowing Menke would be reviewing Tarantino's work at the end of the process made him get to the point faster, and focus on what mattered. And it's not like she was cut-happy. She edited Jackie Brown, which actually needs to be as long as it is.

[@MotherAce]

arguebly, he'd already learned by that time. The last 3 Tarantino's aren't weaker than any previous. The editing for "Hateful 8", aren't worse than any of the lesser examples of pacing prior. I was worried when Menke died, but most of Tarantino's best scenes are usually the absolute longest ones. "Once upon..." has brilliant lengthy editing. Chances are, he wasn't wrong about the diner scene in "Pulp Fiction" either. I have no idea on what basis the above essay argues the combative nature of Menke/Tarantino. Seems to me it was Tarantino's brillance that properly recognized the talent of Menke combined with his work, and not the other way around.

[@MuscarV2]

I didn't love any of his films from inglorious basterds to the hateful eight. But I absolutely loved Once upon a time, it had something that was missing in the others. I really can't say what though, need a rewatch and to think about it.

[@elijahcassidy]

She must've been one of the only people who could keep the reins on Tarantino, and now he has no one to convince him to hold back.

[@thebasedgodmax1163]

a video like this is why i think you're easily one of the best film video essay type channels. instead of churning out forgettable over analysis's of something there's already an abundance of videos on, you create something like this, shining light on an extremely important person who's name never gets mentioned in conversation. thank you, mr now you see it.

[@lucasmachado6447]

I think he's the closest out there to the quality of Every Frame a Painting. His essays actually convince you and he makes interesting, original points

[@Jesse__H]

over-analyses* 😊👍

[@kostajovanovic3711]

I wonder at whom are you trowing shade at?

[@Isabel-zt7mw]

i feel the exact same way!

[@Aster_Risk]

@@kostajovanovic3711 I think it's just general shade. There are a ton of great channels, but it sometimes feels like the same things are talked about too often. It's nice to see something that isn't covered all that much.

[@dimitreze]

Kelley Dixon is the editor on Breaking Bad and left Better Call Saul to edit Falcon and the Winter Soldier. She is amazing.

[@understandingart9961]

Breaking Bad had Skip Macdonald as its main editor

[@TheShipMunksTV]

It would have been nice to see Marcia Lucas included in this, she basically saved Star Wars from failure with her edit.

[@quietdemon8138]

Lucestre eh not exactly she mainly worked on the final dogfight on the Death Star, it was mainly Paul Hirsch and Richard Chew who worked with George Lucas to re-edit practically every major scene from a new hope

[@JB-bq2qj]

At 8:39 would have been an appropriate moment for that

[@TheShipMunksTV]

@@quietdemon8138 I believe you, but including her impact on the film would have fit the video well nonetheless!

[@vancityband6577]

@@quietdemon8138 To have invented a completely new narrative without any new shots is still a helluva achievement. And without the epic Death Star battle at the end, the film wouldn't have been so iconic.

[@quietdemon8138]

Vancity Band completely agree all 3 editors combined their strengths and imo were instrumental in making the movie a phenomenal success and along with George’s directing and story writing, John Williams’ music and the actors making the unbelievable as plausible as possible made the movie go beyond what people expected it to

[@NikkiMKarLen]

When you do things right, people won't be sure you've done anything at all.

[@raffirahmansyah]

I now have more commitment into editing my school projects after this. Props to Dede Allen, even tho I know nothing about her before this video, she was very well underappreciated back then. Thanks uhh, now you see it.

[@kino_verite]

Jennifer Lame is slowly gaining the ranks in cinema - from Baumbach’s Marriage Story to Nolan’s Tenet.

[@user-km9bx3gf3z]

I have a problem, I saw the word tenet and giggled in excitement

[@uknownothing5128]

I loooooved Marriage Story's editing! Didn't know she also edited Tenet and now I'm more excited.

[@niccolo7504]

she INVENTED THE J-CUT? wow i’m really surprised i’ve never heard of her

[@colinjudge1261]

She didn’t invent the J-Cut, and in fairness to NYSI, he never actually worded it that way. He made the assertion that she made it a Hollywood standard. The J-Cut was used at least as far back as Godard’s À Bout de Souffle. While Dede Allen was a phenomenal editor, it it clear that she, like many of her era, was influenced heavily by the French New Wave, and made a career from refining the techniques introduced by those films. Important to note is that À Bout de Souffle was edited by Cécile Decugis. I can't say if she was the first to employ the J-Cut, or how much of a role was played by Godard in the editing suite. Certainly most conversations about the editing decisions of that movie centre around Godard's choices, but it's possible that it's another example of overlooking the creative role of the editor.

[@robert3333]

@@colinjudge1261 I always thought Citizen Kane already used J-Cuts? I'm not sure though.

[@colinjudge1261]

It could well be! I’d imagine it was used quite often, sometimes out of necessity rather than creative choice. If there was no appropriate audio for one shot, just start the audio from the next shot early. Also, plenty of early films used fade transitions. At what point in the transition does it count as a J or L cut? A matter for scholars, I suppose...

[@manuem8996]

@@colinjudge1261 I don't know how much reliable is this, but it's on imdb's trivia and could be an indicative answer: According to Jean-Pierre Melville, Godard asked him for consultation during the post-production stage because the first edit was too long for distribution. Melville suggested Godard remove all scenes that slowed down the action (his own turn as novelist Parvulesco included). But instead of excluding entire scenes, Godard cut little bits from here and there. This led to the "jump cut" technique this movie introduced. Melville declared the result to be excellent.

[@PalaceDude]

I'm sorry? I did not see one mention OR demonstration of the J-Cut here. I might have missed it, but I do see that she invented that "abrupt skip".

[@Moglidor]

Don’t mind me. Just here to help the algorithm.

[@quaginator]

I would like to suggest including a film title card for each of the scenes you include in your videos. You cut very quickly between scenes of different movies and it's hard for me to keep up and note the films referenced. Otherwise, another great video!

[@ShatteredGlass916]

Thank you for shining light on this. Dede Allen is a wonderful editor and surprisingly there's so little videos about her, or just editors in general (at least from what i have found, i haven't searched that deep anyway lol)

[@honeybee1256]

Editors hardly get any credit but the editing can make or break a movie in many people’s eyes.

[@losingfayth]

As someone who wants to be a filmmaker, thank you for making this. While I always knew editing was an important part of the process (from the little editing I've done on small projects) I never truly realized how significant it and the person behind it was.

[@comrademax57]

I have Bonnie and Clyde in my watchlist for a long time now, I guess its time to watch it

[@TheShipMunksTV]

You must watch it!

[@lylehimself9287]

ive watched it recently for the preparation of another video essay. oh man, it's a great film!

[@Turnoutburndown]

Then read the book "Pictures at a Revolution" by Mark Harris about that movie and New Hollywood. It's a book that proves reality is stranger than fiction.

[@JB-bq2qj]

Bring a strong drink

[@Darthsantana]

I haven't see it but Now You See It also has a video about it too which is good as well.

[@urielacosta2329]

I'm not even planning on filmmaking, but just knowing these things help me be more creative. Massive thanks.

[@afoxstale]

You should watch that star wars documentary called “saved in the edit” so good

[@ahmadghanim5886]

Thelma Schoonmaker is another influential editor who’s somewhat overlooked.

[@chrise8275]

Scorsese’s films Are so masterfully edited.

[@Alex-cw3rz]

This was brilliant I had never thought of this and have a new found respect for editors! I always thought of it as an underappreciated role but not to this degree

[@Yourlibrarian]

Hope everyone is having a safe and swell day.

[@TheXcrome]

This is real sweet. Thank you, you too

[@uncomfortablecat]

Okay, was expecting something different but this is better.

[@MariaVosa]

One of the great things about youtube is that a lot of people are highlighting the importance and fascinating art of editing to people like me. And it really is criminal the way both editors and cinemtographers have been sidelined for a long time. The professionals know how vital they are, and now more of the public knows as well

[@kristianpierce2963]

Although he does more than film, you and Nerdwriter are the best at video essays. Always so well spoken and informative.

[@junkmansobbligato]

Never really thought about editors, thank you!

[@katr.9902]

Wow man.. just wow. Thank you for shining a light on this. I think it’s the first video essay I have watched about this subject. Thank you, this was really amazing!

[@tylerr3740]

Great video once again, that ad transition was so smooth lol.

[@Darthsantana]

I'm always a bit sad when your videos are over only because I want them to keep going. Great stuff as always.

[@Kalesryan]

When Quentin Tarantino said that he rather have a female editor because they would “nurture” not only the movie but him?? And that they wouldn’t fight him on any of his deductions? That made my skin crawl.

[@jessuh7500]

well he was proven wrong

[@MyDarkMuffin]

I think he learned his lesson

[@StickNik]

I think in the context of the full clip it's a lot more complimentary: kzbin.info/www/bejne/rKLLgYqchN2AraM _"When I was doing my first movie the only thing I knew, is I wanted a female editor, because I just felt a female editor would be more nurturing to the movie and to me. They wouldn't try to be winning their way just to win their way, alright, they wouldn't be trying to shove their agenda or win their battles with me, they would be nurturing me through this process."_ With his continued explanation of editing down the Pulp Fiction date scene, it's really just comes across as nurturing the movie itself, and being able to convince him to cut what's necessary even when he doesn't like to. I don't think nurturing him and challenging him were supposed to be mutually exclusive, but closely related. On top of that, I'm assuming with winning battles, he thought a man would more likely want to win battles on editing decisions for the sake of getting their way, and not for the sake of the movie itself.

[@alexforce9]

Thats coz you are sexist lol. If it was a female first time director who said she wanted a female editor you would feel just fine.

[@elle3562]

Glad I wasn't the only one. Like I think he meant well, but hearing it felt like being dragged back through time a couple of centuries

[@lonedemon]

Great video. Also one of the best ad segues I've seen in a while.

[@sivtsevn]

You opened my eyes how actually editing looks. I thought it just post production.

[@michelhv]

I used to know only two very influential film editors: Dziga Vertov and Walter March, but Dede Allen was MASSIVELY ignored in comparison. Now I see it!

[@breannaw7254]

Thank you for making this!! I love Dede Allen and it's great see her getting more attention!

[@TheParadiseParadox]

Interesting to see The Hustler among her credits. I'm sure I've seen the movie at least 10 times, focusing on Paul Newman's acting, Tevis's brilliant dialogue and story... I might have to watch it a few more times to take in the editing. Amazing movie

[@333kenshin]

It's worth note that Every Film a Painting - arguably the gold standard of film essays - creator Tony Zhou is an editor

[@MrNikoSrb]

"Every Frame a Painting" not film...

[@PeakedInterest]

I think this is exactly why filmmakers like Hitchcock made a distinction between editing and assembly

[@closeoutentertainment]

This is really great! Thanks for this.

[@skylarspeer5824]

Shoutout to Kelley Dixon of Breaking Bad, she edited the first few meth cooks and set the bar for montages for the entire series.

[@curiousworld7912]

Ida Lupino was another incredibly talented actress, director and writer, who worked in both film and television. It's good to see these intelligent, creative, and often sadly overlooked women getting the nod.

[@videovasco7]

Yeah, Editors are for sure the second DIrectors, the second person whose vision and skill contributes more to the final film. And yes, to this day, we all say the best compliment is to, not even mention the editing.

[@agnel47]

"Editing" *IS* _everything_ .

[@oldmanlogan9616]

Yes

[@AmbroseReed]

this is so cool. I didn't know a lot of this, super interesting

[@amourtoujours779]

I wish I heard of her back in college. Would have been EXCELLENT addition to my seminar paper.

[@TheLamphouseBCP]

Those harsh cuts are amazing. I feel like we never see cuts that bold these days - at least in Hollywood.

[@pdthorn]

Before we even got to the name drop, I knew what we would be exploring-NYSI has its own stylistic language now

[@RichardCano]

This is why I respect Robert Rodriguez so much. He not only funded his first film by selling his body to science, he also wrote, directed, AND edited it. And he continues to produce, write, direct, and edit much of his work today. That dude is prime example a filmmaker who makes the film from the ground up.

[@Aster_Risk]

I think he doesn't get enough love. So many people really overlooked Planet Terror which is just such a great, ridiculous film. He also brought us Sharkboy and Lava Girl which are some pretty fun and creative kids movies. He's got a really great style.

[@HardboiledBoi]

Thanks for this awesome video, I was familiar with Sally Menke before, but now I can add Dede Allen.

[@HOTKNlFE]

Thank you so much for this video!! I was starting to lose hope since I’ve always saw men in the credits but knowing women can still get a chance in Hollywood gives me relief

[@216trixie]

I never knew that an editor could have so much influence over the finished product, outside of the director and producer.I would think one of them would have the final say over a lot of the things she did.

[@amannamed_8072]

The director and producer do have final say, however they are rarely present on the room while the edit is happening, so the editors have the chance to present their version. Typically the people in charge recognize the good stuff the editor does, but they can always say "no,back and do it again."

[@blakeparkerlovesyoutoo]

U got me I didn’t even know I was watching an ad

[@fangirlfortheages5940]

Jesus Tarantino. I mean at least he corrected his mistake years later. But I mean cmon.

[@lamenamethefirst]

The phrase "sound is half the picture" has become really popular but sound designers/sound editors still don't get opening credits most of the time.

[@optionalland8830]

He’s back!!

[@insanelyscaryawful1937]

That transition into the ad at the end was so smooth.

[@bentoth9555]

I didn't realize it was an ad transition until it was well into the actual ad.

[@MrRedstoner]

You might say he has a good editor.

[@ninfilms]

The best editors are the ones that can make the films of what the are. Films likes Jaws is one example of how editing made its brilliance.

[@PalaceDude]

Wow, is that why I didn't like the editing in ONCE UPON A TIME? I swear I just knew about Menke now, and I feel terrible. It all makes sense now. PS: Once Upon A Time in Hollywood is a masterpiece, nonetheless.

[@geraldmerkowitz4360]

More on the matter: "how Star Wars was saved in the edit" by Rocket Jump. An absolutely fantastic video.

[@stevecarter8810]

That should be required viewing for all star wars fans. Without the edit, a new hope would have been like the prequels. Likewise, the prequels could have been saved in the edit, see belated media's "what if star wars episode I were good?"

[@rick.d]

Maybe the best video. How you left out Marcia Lucas' contribution to Star Wars is quite baffling, tho.

[@dharmapunk777]

Sometimes you come across things on youtube that are actually very important. I've been a movie lover for decades and have often become obsessed with actors and directors, even writers. But I have never once considered the editor. I always assumed that they were following the direction of the directors. Had no idea how much influence on the finished product they had.

[@augustgreig9420]

I remember reading an interview with Kubrick when I was a kid, and he said that editing was the only aspect of movie making that is exclusive to film. As such, editing is where you can really create magic. It's also interesting to think about Kubrick having a vision for how things would be edited while he was filming. Just look at the way it's used in the Shining and ACO.

[@CinemaStix]

Dang. That’s fascinating.

[@JonathanEBoyd]

A Brilliant Video essay as always 1 of the best Movie essay channels in the game always Learn so much and makes me think about the history of Movies & Filmmaking learnt about Dede allen to Glad to see Thelma Schoonmaker , Sally Menke Included I think they made their directors & the films they worked on so much better . Editors are very underrated they contribute so much not just technically but in story telling & emotionally . Love the angle you took on this subject from really Just top notch Take Care

[@pinetree6507]

Bruh I like your channel and all but you gotta seriously crank down the volume on this royalty-free music.

[@cjgayle7815]

This is a very well meaning, important message you've made here.

[@lucyclarke8352]

Mark Cousins has recently released a documentary called Women in Film. It's fourteen hours long, and all the film clips are from films directed by women from all across the globe, spanning film history. It's introduced me to some new films to go and explore.

[@veraciously]

Narrated by Tilda Swinton! It's pretty incredible, I've seen about 4 of the episodes so far. Love the structure of it, not structured around chronology but types of scenes and storytelling, it's incredibly well-edited.

[@lucyclarke8352]

@@veraciously I think its absolutely fabulous, and I love the way they focus on the minutiae of film

[@thevfxmancolorizationvfxex4051]

I'd love to see you do a video on Bob Rafelson next. He's a very underrated filmmaker

[@stocktonjoans]

i've got a reprint of a bookbinding manual from 1852, in it the folding of the pages before they are bound is considered "womens work" and their pay was so negligable it wasn't included in the price of the finished book, i really can't believe how those attitudes have lasted for so long

[@christian-owens]

I had no idea about this! Thanks for sharing a new perspective, praise the youtube algorithm!

[@clurkroberts2650]

Great video on a under appreciated role in film making. I wish I could give you a thousand thumbs up.

[@absolutelynotcryingcat2311]

Great video! Just as always. Thank you so much

[@zehhet]

Super good video, and a counterbalancing force to mention to women not getting credit as editors is Dziga Vertov's Man With a Movie Camera. Even in the title, the emphasis is on "man" and we call it Dziga Vertov's film, so there's a lot of maleness there. But that's not what the film itself actually does. It has an extended sequence of the editor, his wife, Elizaveta Svilova, editing the very film that we are watching. The film it self gives massive credit to the female editor of the film, as it should, and I think the film as a whole concentrates on the experience of women in a way that it likely wouldn't if it had a male editor. If you haven't seen it, throw on the version with the Cinematic Orchestra score and enjoy one of the best films ever made. kzbin.info/www/bejne/mXi8i2huaZx5n6s

[@Lpool-mx6rl]

Yes, and film editors can also ruin a film. Sometimes too many cooks can spoil the broth. Louis CK spoke about how one of his first films, once released into the hands of the company and the editors, was completely destroyed in the editing, made no sense and ultimately was no longer his film. So maybe you should have spoke about the negatives of film editing too.

[@SwedisGamer00]

The deceding transition from video to ad was really good. I most cases editors do a hard cut when their scripts end. BUt Now You See It broke the rule, and used the ad as a part of his scirpt. Wonderful use of his creativity.

[@kelvinp.coleman563]

I hadn't realised that the woman editor was an actual thing. Perhaps the issue is the general lack of recognition for the role - after all, how many editors, male or female, can you actually name? - but the only two women editors that I'd become aware of were Thelma Schoonmaker and Anne V. Coates. Seems like I've got some research to do! (I thought the only traditionally female role in the film industry was Script Supervisor, which used to be so dominated by women that films into at least the 1950s have a credit for "Continuity Girl".)

[@atkimusic]

As soon as you're reading the title you're thinking it's about a writer/director. Funny cause it's true.

[@jeannenugent5706]

Love this video Jackie, GOOD JOB!! Love Mommmyyyyy

[@stephensenez6240]

Awesome video!!

[@grankwastaken]

10:26 ... smooth

[@Lady_Vengeance]

I wish you would have tipped your cap to Margaret Sixel for her work editing Mad Max: Fury Road. In an astonishingly masculine film her peerless editing is an absolute beacon. Truly one of the greatest achievements in editing I’ve seen in the 2000s.

[@jaredparmer2583]

Patton Oswalt has a great bit about this (NSFW): kzbin.info/www/bejne/kJTNnX6Zn7urisU

[@tiberiutoth4326]

This commentary I guess works for Hollywood cinema. But please stand corrected and do not say the "the first film editor in film history" as there was the well established Russian Montage School (Sergei Eisenstein, Lev Kuleshov, Dziga Vertov etc) in 1920', way before Dede Allen.

[@tiberiutoth4326]

Jack Nugent, I liked so far all your video essays, I like this one too, but you can't reduce film history to Hollywood history.

[@Aster_Risk]

That's a really good correction to point out!

[@KayButtonJay]

THANK YOU. There’s a reason Dog Day Afternoon and Serpico are amazing. And that’s largely Dede

[@meremeth]

Loved this video ❤️❤️

[@Iyentra]

TIL... Every single thing in this video. Thank you creator!

[@kev_whatev]

“We seem to focus more on the writers and directors...but that still leaves out 1/3 of the story*” *unless you’re the Coen Brothers

[@zarlg]

Even though he's spoken about it before, it's still a bit strange to make a whole video about the revolution in Hollywood editing in the 60s without even mentioning the French New Wave.

[@TheShipMunksTV]

I totally agree, a bigger part for Bonnie and Clyde was missing

[@vilvero]

When I was a kid grandpa always said the editor was the most important for a film, I didn’t quite understand why then. I do now.

[@takeshot3]

always had dog day afternoon on my library... okay ill watch it tomorrow.

[@augustgreig9420]

Hateful 8 definitely could have used some editing. Like edit out the entire narrated flashback. And better editing could have made it possible to solve the mystery, instead of offering no clues and then just telling us. Also, Death Proof should have had 95% of it cut.

[@sonofbattra1081]

damn ive always wanted to say first in my fuckin 15 years on this site

[@lawrencescales9864]

Could you cite the movies in the description? I’d really like to watch some of these films

[@LsArts]

Thank you for this video. Good quality content. Informative, Inspiring.

[@olleicua]

I find these sorts of sharp cus to show passage of time extremely distracting. Sorkin uses them a lot and I find myself rewinding a lot because of it

[@rukysees3589]

This comment was edited by an editor

[@avalancherelapse]

what's the name of the song that starts playing at 1:00?

[@kaleidoscopicvoid]

Good video. I liked your appreciation of this.

[@walterw8223]

Star Wars was saved in the edit.

[@guyanello7201]

Incredible, ive taken so many of these techniques for granted and it's nice to appreciate where they came from

[@ataraxia7439]

What is the song at 1:04 with the piano? Great video btw.