The Most Overrated Album in Jazz is...

[@hartleycwhite]

Brubeck's Time Out is a very good Jazz album, but should be in the top 50, but not number 1.

[@D-Ray-ly4gu]

Thelonious Monk was also on the cover of Time Magazine. February 28,1964.

[@VinylRundown]

Good point. In 1954 there were just two.

[@briankoller2750]

Duke Ellington was on the August 20, 1956 cover of Time Magazine (following the Newport show where Paul Gonsalves' long tenor sax solo nearly caused a riot)

[@JherekLazo]

A white guy can't play jazz and it is disrespectful? Wtf dude.

[@VinylRundown]

Calling him the #1 jazz album of all time is disrespectful. That’s what I said.

[@gringoloco4]

@@VinylRundownabsurd. You ate the big BLM 💩 in this video … now enjoy it !!

[@f.botello]

Miles Davis, John Coltrane, Duke Eillington, Charles Mingus, Thelonious Monk, Ornette Coleman, Eric Dolphy, Sonny Rollins & Herbie Hancock all have tops records before Brubeck for me

[@VinylRundown]

Agreed! Thks for watching.

[@johnkreutz3207]

Come on does everything have to boil down to race ...how about just appreciating the whole ART for its own sake . Knock it off and move on

[@VinylRundown]

Not everything - just jazz.

[@gringoloco4]

Right ? So friggin tiresome.

[@gringoloco4]

He should be more worried about his male-pattern baldness than the racial makeup of this band.

[@cjsevalez]

To be fair, the actual list from Jazz at Lincoln Centre is a list of 10 albums to discover Jazz and although they are numbered, its not presented as a ranked list. Given its accessibility, its place in a list for newcomers to jazz seems entirely justified to me. In general, ranked lists nearly always put Kind of Blue at the top. The highest I have ever seen Time Out is #3. Although I wouldn't place it at #1, I think its inclusion in a top 10, or possibly even top 5 could be argued on the following points: 1. Its excellent production and the musicianship of the classic quartet showcase the interactivity and individuality of each of the musicians, a key element of jazz. 2. It is a clear example of the fusion of different musical traditions and experimentation which is fundamental to the development of jazz. Although its genesis may have occurred in circumstances organised by the U.S. State department, it is clearly an artistic statement from Brubeck and Desmond. I doubt anybody in the State department was arguing that a Turkish/Classical/Jazz fusion album based around non-standard time signatures was the missing key in their Cold War propoganda policy. 3. Rather than being a musical dead-end, it is a key album in Cool Jazz and West Coast Jazz which, while not as significant as bebop, are important and influential in their own right. 4. Brubeck has a distinctive sound and interpretation which are immediately identifiable. My personal choice for the most overrated album in Jazz would be Ellington at Newport. It is an excellent live album but in my opinion, several other Ellington albums are better and its reputation is built on the story rather than the music itself.

[@VinylRundown]

All good points - and you are the only one to discover the Lincoln Center info.

[@blakegoode6935]

The cover always reminded me of an abstract "Last Supper"

[@jeffreysobczynski7113]

Yes Greg I assumed, Time Out or Kind Of Blue - which is the constant refrain in the VC. Time Out is one of my favorite jazz albums (I have over 1,500). Time Out for me is a personal top 10 or 20, regardless of the state department’s supposed influence. The reason is it so highly rated is because it is easy to listen to and is unique - is there something wrong with that? I agree that it should not be a top 3 or top 5, top 20 yes Jazz is overwhelmingly an African - American art form - we all know that, hard to gauge what percentage, but 90% at least I love hard bop, which is blues and gospel mixed with bop that came together in large northern cities with good high school music programs (Detroit, Philly, Chicago, NYC, etc) and the vibrant jazz/R&B clubs with paying customers to develop players in thriving music scenes We will never see the run that we saw during the 50’s and 60’s - unfortunately the ingredients are no longer there and the average listener moved on to R&B or rock, then to eventually funk and rap. Which is why I cherish my dusty, scratchy records Take care

[@VinylRundown]

Thanks for the thoughtful comments. Agree with Most of that. TO is a bigger influence on listeners than players which is OK too.

[@dominicpardo4783]

Clear evidence that opinions are subjective.

[@VinylRundown]

True. This is the best comment on this vid!

[@VinylPiper]

Your sources are Siri, Apple and Google? What about the jazz bums, the jazz shepherd and Michael 45? Interesting video nonetheless.

[@VinylRundown]

These are the sources that the general public is likely to have shape their knowledge.

[@VinylPiper]

Very true!! Thanks!!

[@cihant5438]

When I was a child in Turkey, our next-door neighbor liked "jazz". He liked Ella Fitzgerald a lot. He also liked Take 5. I think his wife bought him a casette of Take 5 as a birthday present. I have always liked that album. Maybe it is the Turkish rhythms. I get it though that putting it at #1 is like giving Bob Dylan the Nobel prize for literature. Also, I don't know much about this, but this will not stop me from commenting :-) The ethnic element in Jazz might not be prevelant in Black Jazz. But in foreign jazz it is a thing. I don't know if it was influenced by Brubeck or not, but it is maybe not fair to say that Take 5 was not influential. Since I don't know much, I asked AI to see what it says. It mentioned Pat Metheny, and John Zorn as people who might have been influenced. I don't know if it is true. I am AI's lying mouthpiece, as we would say in Turkish.

[@VinylRundown]

I'm a fan of ethnic and folk inspired jazz. I have all of Pat Metheny's works - seen him dozens of times - never heard him mention Brubeck - never recorded any of his tunes. He talks about ornette coleman a lot and sonny rollins. Although - as far as odd time signatures - oine of Pat's most important tunes is First Circle which is in 11/22 - very odd time signature. Thanks for watching.

[@diamond_marimba]

Lloyd Miller, Tony Scott, Yusef Lateef, Don Cherry all Americans heavily influenced by traditions from that part of the world, and yes many European players as well as you mentioned.

[@jgknick]

Really enjoyed this video. Now that we know the most overrated jazz album, I can't help but wonder what is the most underrated jazz album?

[@VinylRundown]

Prince Lasha - The Cry. Musicians love it but its not well known and not featured on too many lists. Just one possible answer…

[@graememcpherson6980]

@@VinylRundown nonsense. There’s a reason why Time Out consistently features on “best of” lists and The Cry is an obscure jazz footnote. You jazz intelligentsia clowns are so far up your own backsides it’s comical.

[@michaellord9745]

The video that didn't need to be made.

[@VinylRundown]

More like the comment that didn’t need to be left!

[@exhainca]

BTW - Columbia is Sony.

[@VinylRundown]

Yes I know. Thx.

[@exhainca]

@@VinylRundown Also, don't you think the inclusion of Turkish odd time signatures (actually from Bulgaria and not the Arab world) may have given rise to jazz fusion?

[@jameshogg11]

For me it would be A Love Supreme.

[@VinylRundown]

Two have said that. Convince me!

[@jameshogg11]

@@VinylRundown I couldn't if I tried ☺ it's just personal taste. I don't 'get' Love Supreme, and I say that as born-again, regular Bible-reading, Church twice on Sunday and again on Wednesday night kind of Christian guy 😂 but I don't enjoy a lot of Coltrane's stuff apart from the albums 'Ballads' and 'Standard Coltrane'.

[@schrisdellopoulos9244]

@@jameshogg11 stay in church and listen to the pastor pal, because you have zero taste in jazz.

[@jameshogg11]

@@schrisdellopoulos9244 haha! Can't stand Love Supreme. It's an offence to my ears

[@DefenestrateYourself]

@@schrisdellopoulos9244you’re gross. I’ll pray for you

[@michaelvalentini4869]

Gregg, fantastic video, you walked the tightrope quite nicely. In some ways, this video falls in line with your video about the ''What The Hell Happened To Blood Sweat and Tears'' expose. While watching this Brubeck video, I kept thinking about the Mingus tune, ''Fables Of Faubus''. The first version included on the major label release,'' Mingus Ah Um'' was purely instrumental. The second version released on the Candid label featured the lyrics. I assume that Columbia was afraid to record the vocal version, whereas Nat Hentoff, who was at the helm of the Candid label, let Mingus speak truth to Power. I dig both versions. This ''Take Five'' video comes just in time as Rhode Island finally decided to make Juneteenth an official holiday!

[@VinylRundown]

Thanks! Took Me a while to parse all this info!

[@NotedArchived]

I was going to say ‘A Love Supreme’

[@VinylRundown]

You’ll hafta try to convince me…!

[@schrisdellopoulos9244]

WTF are you talking about? You must hate jazz.

[@VinylRundown]

@@schrisdellopoulos9244 be nice. People have opinions. Overrated does not mean hate - it means that someone rated it higher than you did.

[@alexpotts863]

I'd echo A Love Supreme or Kind of Blue. Both are obviously great, but both suffer from over-exposure. Always a half dozen or more Trane or Miles albums I'd rather listen to at any given time. Real answer: The Koln Concert! I've always found it dull. Put me off from exploring Keith Jarrett for years -- what a shame! All his other solo piano albums in the same vein, I've uniformly loved.

[@VinylRundown]

Koln is reportedly the best selling solo piano album in history. Like it but not my fave of his.

[@davidthom7127]

BS

[@VinylRundown]

I’m listening… Don’t forget to bring receipts.

[@Davidicus-m8c]

and of course Take Five is a friggin great album,love dave brubeck's music!!

[@Davidicus-m8c]

i never heard Take 5 in reverse before, cool!!

[@bellestarr9976]

Turkish rhythms and odd time signatures. Bebop never displayed any odd time signatures....

[@VinylRundown]

Bebop was way before Time Out, if you are implying that Brubeck influenced bebop, no.

[@schrisdellopoulos9244]

Good grief, the white man comments here prove VR's point! "Love Supreme" overrated? Y'all don't "understand it?" Go play "Take Five" for the 500th time. We'll be listening to Mingus, Eric Dolphy, Monk, and every genius jazz artists from Detroit like Donald Byrd, Thad, Hank, & Elvin Jones, James Carter (who sat in with us last month), Barry Harris, Curtis Fuller, Tommy Flanagan, & Kenny Burrell.

[@gringoloco4]

White Karen to the rescue for his black pets !

[@truestory2990]

get over it

[@briankoller2750]

The best jazz album is Duke Ellington's Such Sweet Thunder

[@VinylRundown]

The best or your favorite?

[@Robertocamero785]

Good album, but definitely not a favourite of mine.

[@geoffbrugger426]

Virtue signaling meets sophistry. Youre too focused on race bud, its 2024. The political elite are taking us backwards with all this emphasis on race. Nobody thinks brubeck is the goat. The melody of take five is iconic, that is all.

[@schrisdellopoulos9244]

Well, that's true. I have a copy, like everyone lese, yet I never play it. I see this as the "Stairway To Heaven" of rock music, White, pedestrian, and stolen from Black musicians.

[@VinylRundown]

Stolen from Turkish musicians in this case but agreed.

[@DefenestrateYourself]

That’s going too far and inaccurate. Nobody was being as innovative with time signatures at the time when it comes to jazz

[@truestory2990]

Time Out deserves to be #1

[@VinylRundown]

Explain.

[@truestory2990]

@@VinylRundown For one - the musicianship is amazing, everyone delivered exceptional performances throughout the album. But above all It had tremendous influence that extended beyond jazz. It's a pinnacle of musical innovation. A timeless, essential listen.

[@VinylRundown]

@@truestory2990 Im seriously asking -who made turkish oddball time signature jazz after this record? If not - what was the influence? Great musicianship for sure.

[@DefenestrateYourself]

@@truestory2990many albums are better and had a bigger impact. But bless your little heart

[@bluemountainsjazzcollector7792]

I’ve heard it all now. Time Out is overrated. Geez you jazz elitists are amusing.

[@DefenestrateYourself]

It’s not the #1 greatest jazz album. Try actually watching the video, sweaty

[@richardriley4415]

Good episode.

[@VinylRundown]

Thanks you!!

[@graememcpherson6980]

So Time Out is overrated huh? Oh dear. While it's not my choice for number 1 jazz album of all time its one of those classic records from 1959 that is a demonstration of how an art form had penetrated society to a point where some uncool mostly white dudes could come up with a truly original masterpiece. Different time signatures, splashes of classical influence. Not to mention a mixed race band.....I'm amazed some of the jazz intelligentsia have any jazz records left in their collection... apparently all the classics are "overrated" these days.

[@VinylRundown]

The bass player was black - 3 whites, not 4. Wha other classics are overrated - I only said one - you said "all?"

[@Shawn_at_Vinyl_Minimalist]

I actually really like Time Out, my vote for the most overrated jazz is Bill Evans. All of em

[@VinylRundown]

Which Evans LP is overrated? I don’t see one in most top ten lists.

[@Shawn_at_Vinyl_Minimalist]

​@@VinylRundown in the VC