The Most Underrated Touhou Song

The song of the video: • SC-88Pro - Treacherous...
The term "underrated" refers to something that's undervalued/underappreciated. Thanks to the relative obscurity of ZUN's MIDI Remixes, I can confidently say I've found one of the most underrated songs in the series: Treacherous Maiden ~ Judas Kiss: MIDI Version. But what makes it underrated besides just being unknown? Let's find out!
(Shoutout to my friend Joe for answering a music theory question I had at 3 AM)
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Music Used in the video:
Treacherous Maiden ~ Judas Kiss (Original; Touhou 5)
Treacherous Maiden ~ Judas Kiss (MIDI Version)
Crimson Maiden ~ Crimson Dead (Original; Touhou 5)
Crimson Maiden ~ Crimson Dead (MIDI Version)
#Touhou #TouhouProject

[@clockworkcake8057]

i remember writing a re-write of yuki & mai for the window's era, it was pretty nifty i think that Mai only really claims she's "free" to scare any of the 4 protagonists, though.

[@Megapig9001]

When I was playing to get footage, I was really surprised to see that Reimu is actually caught off guard by Mai’s supposed happiness and confidence. She doesn’t even react to Yuki.

[@masterspark9880]

For those who don’t know, in the Bible Judas (one of Jesus' disciples) identifies Jesus to the police force of the Sanhedrin by kissing him and saying “Greetings, Rabbi”, which leads to them arresting Jesus and delivering him to the Romans to crucify him. So the phrase “Judas kiss” means “an act appearing to be an act of friendship, which is in fact harmful to the recipient”

[@absoutezeo2126]

Very informative, thanks for sharing.

[@MrNoobomnenie]

For me personally, Loose Rain (Extra stage theme from 12.8) is one of the most underrrated Touhou songs. Only 101 people voted for in it the last Touhou Popularity Poll, and only 6 listed it as their most favorite Touhou song. I was one of those 6. This song is so beautiful and emotional, that for me this is the absolute peak of ZUN's music. You know, people in the internet are often joking about how they want to "play this song at their funeral" (which for me is quite stupid), but I completely seriously want to listen to Loose Rain while dying.

[@ogn1k110]

it is underrated because of magus night, but i have to say that 12.8 has one of the best ost if not the best

[@heiwuniao7550]

it really shows that *you shouldn't be here, please go* and then you keep dying to marisa bc freezing also fr you can capture spells by being in the lasers like how

[@otakugainsmaster6838]

These are some themes that I feel are underrated as well: HRtP “Blade of Banishment”, PoDD “Vanishing Dream ~ Lost Dream”, and my favorite PC98 track: LLS “Witching Dream”

[@motepral34]

one of my favorite songs ever is an arrangement of lost dream, it is called Lost Days by FELT, i'd seriously recommend you check it out: kzbin.info/www/bejne/sHLWnYWaba9snJo

[@jvts8916]

My personal favourite of the PC98 era is Alice Maestra. It plays on stage 4 of Lotus Land Story, the stage where you fight the playable character you didn't pick and it's a really catchy theme that is unfortunate enough to appear right after Bad Apple and Perdition Crisis, cementing its fate.

[@toastybread_ch]

idk I feel like there are lots of people who appreciate alice maestra though, it doesn't seem THAT underrated to me, although it is one of my absolute favorites as well

[@zombiekiller0023]

If you really enjoy Alice Maestra, Tamaonsen made a killer song based on it called Ryusei Drive from the album Romansick. Careful tho, it is addictive

[@mrrp405]

Vanishing dream Lost dream’s is the most underrated, in my opinion, but I love hearing the analysis and appreciation of every theme. The climax about a minute in is unbelievably good.

[@pandakekok7319]

Vanishing Dream is definitely one of my favorites from PoDD, but I don't think it's too underrated, considering that it's used a lot in Touhou Mother, a well-known fangame.

[@mrrp405]

@@pandakekok7319 I've truthfully never played it but I should at some point. Too many fangames to play

[@dumbicefairy]

I really hope ZUN returns to this idea in the future, I absolutely love paired, alternative and revival fights. It makes both the themes and characters more complete. It is especially thrilling when it's stage 6 or extra, like with resurrections, even if they are short they just sound too grandiose to not appreciate them

[@marx4538]

i think the PC-98 Maple Wise is more underrated, one of my personal favorites and nobody even seems to care about it since it's not attached to a character good video though and i do see your point

[@BinglesP]

I agree, its one of my favorites too a lot of stage themes are overlooked unfortunately

[@elgatochurro]

Maple wise?

[@marx4538]

@@elgatochurro Stage 4 MS

[@toro2812]

It's a very underrated tune I agree, got stuck in my head after going through what is an unusually long stage, it didn't help that I didn't fix the settings for neko project the first time I played MS so the song went on for longer, it's still great though, despite the repetitiveness, it also has an extremely underrated vocal arrangement done by TERRA (MintJam) who happens to be one of my favorite musicians ever, MS's soundtrack in general doesn't disappoint, probably the best soundtrack in the entire series.

[@poledra4153]

I find that having multiple versions of touhou songs is overwhelming, already that as a recent touhou fan i didn't listen to all the cds. I only checked a few of ZUN's midi remixes.

[@jx_1132]

That just means you have much to explore, never ending music tracks being thrown at you.

[@C00L9UY]

The original Ornstein and Smough.

[@spirit-eye]

Crimson Maiden ~ Crimson Dead!! and Treacherous Maiden ~ Judas Kiss are already some of my favorite themes from PC-98 Touhou, and while I have noticed that you can feel Yuki’s wrath in Crimson Maiden, and I have heard the Midi versions of the themes, I never really notice the remorse you here in Mai’s theme in the Midi version, that's a great observation.

[@Arbys_Enjoyer]

I personally like the changeability of a strange dream version of Doll Judgement, it sounds so desperate and almost sad in some parts, like someone fighting for their life or they are coming to terms with death, kinda like one of the men in the story of 8 honest men, the one who ends up trying to kill himself then gets turned into a doll under the peirrot's control, and the moment he realizes he isn't human anymore

[@jakethereaper2060]

My opinion I think the mot underrated is "Ultimate Truth" Yuyuko's stage theme in PCB and I personally consider as a sort of 2nd boss theme for Youmu, its such a calming melody the piano is what really got me to love this song but when I looked at the popularity polls it didnt even make top 100 from what I remember

[@ZackLikesBreadAlot]

in my opinion, SWR ending theme is really underrated, and the pre battle theme of AoCF "Scheming Out the Box"

[@f.u.m.o.5669]

The whole SWR soundtrack is underrated. Skies Beyond the Clouds barely has any remixes.

[@3RDplayer]

I absolutely support your theory and headcanon. Whenever I play the game I always aim to take out Yuki because Mai has the easier patterns which makes her the easier boss to fight in the second phase. I also want to mention that I believe that death exists in this universe. So whoever is taken out first literately dies to me (no nonlethal damaku spellcard rule). So when you say maybe Mai was with Yuki for power, and the fact that she stays all alone now as well as her being the easier alternative in this fight, then I absolutely dig it. Regret to have lost a dear friend, and the realization that without them, you aren't as strong as you thought you be.

[@demonchu666]

Ayy that song is very cool! Glad you made this video so people like me can know about it

[@JuanR322]

This is pretty interesting, I didn't know ZUN had composed midi tracks of his pc 98 games and not only that, he managed to add more depth to the character. This is pretty cool, glad yt recommended me this video

[@Wrulfy]

Oh thats why in touhoumon Yuki is Pure fire type, but Mai is Ice/dark, I see

[@FullHitPoints]

Interesting video. Mystic Square is my favorite game in the series due to its story-telling, and Yuki and Mai have been favorites of mine for a long time due to their unique characterization and story-telling, so it's interesting to hear someone else's thoughts upon the characters. It's amazing how much depth ZUN was able to get out of characters that haven't appeared in the series since. I wasn't aware that ZUN rearranged Judas Kiss for the MIDI version, so perhaps it'd be worth digging through more songs to find what other changes he made to his earlier songs. If I may share my own observations regarding things people tend to overlook regarding these characters, I believe that Yuki and Mai are direct underlings of Shinki and/or Yumeko. My evidence for this theory is the fact that they specifically state that they were looking for the Player to kill her, and, in some routes, Yuki or Mai will offer to lead the Player to Pandemonium after being defeated. When the player finally meets Shinki and Yumeko in Stage 5, it's clear from the conversation that they are fully aware of the devastation the Player has been causing through-out Makai. (Shinki herself even admits she was plotting to shoot Marisa in the back!) Knowing this, it seems likely that Shinki and Yumeko specifically sent out Yuki and Mai out to drive the Player away to restore order to Makai.

[@ccfrt7302]

For me personally "Players Score" from Touhou 12.8 and onward is the most underrated song but thats just my opinion.

[@bappityyyy]

Personally one of my favorite underrated songs is Disunified Theory of Magic (Chiyuri's pre-battle theme from Touhou 3) For being so short of a song it should have no right to be as good as it is but here we are I would want to make an arrange, but as of the current moment I do not know how to use midi programs well Also while we're at it Touhou 16.5 ost is quite epic as well i enjoy it

[@Lunar_Capital]

DUDE... this MIDI with the Arachno soundfont SLAPS. You gotta give it a try!!!

[@Kromiball]

Now that you've given this song a popularity boost, perhaps it isn't so underrated anymore... Kana Anaberal, anyone?

[@shaunfrost720]

The best remix of the midi ver is by dbu which is basically lost to time All you can find about it is a single low quality step mania video in niconico (and a mp3 rip of the nico vid uploaded it YT) Been looking for a clear copy of it for 10 years, as dbu doesn't list it in their site.

[@philleW12]

At first i did not know which song you where talking about when you said Yuki & Mai's boss theme, but as soon as i heard the music i remembered it.

[@nmplab]

I never knew this until today and I've been in touhou since 2010. Thank you. Hahaha

[@mx.cherryblueochsenknecht5893]

Truly, the Ornstein and Smough of Touhou.

[@hiroaritillwhen4581]

Oh another fan of this song! Check arranges by Dr.Lucy: Flap to the Sky Angelic Betrayal Anger Angel

[@IERServer]

Today Mai came up in my almost daily random touhou character song for working so I've been listening to different arranges of her theme. Suddenly came across your video. I agree in that Mai's theme is sadder than Yuki's theme. Especially the last part in the MIDI ver., as you said. I remember the first time I fought Mai instead of Yuki, lol It was an accident and I didn't expect her to have her own battle with you. What I found ironic in the end is how she talks about Yuki restraining her yet her attacks are easier to dodge than Yuki's, whose last attack is RNG party to a nighmare in more difficult modes. She really is pissed lol

[@somegirlwhois...1686]

The girl who looks like Marisa and Remilia with angel wings stage

[@AyanaGaming]

i agree with you 100%, its been my all time favorite song tied with satellite café terrace for a long time now

[@f.u.m.o.5669]

In my (not) humble opinion, the most underrated theme is Legend of KAGE, from Highly Responsive to Prayers.

[@u.n.latias4612]

Personally, i find almost all songs from the Touhou music CDs easily the most underrated in all of Touhou

[@unfunnymeiling2315]

I don’t even know that there is underrated touhou song tho

[@unfunnymeiling2315]

@Lifeform I did not said all touhou song is underrate

[@Pinktwinkie.]

Touhou is underrated

[@Fishnberg]

Sky Ruins 🥺

[@unfunnymeiling2315]

@Lifeform OH FINALLY I UNDERSTAND

[@Lunar_Capital]

@@unfunnymeiling2315 Yeah, that’s why commas and periods are important lmfao

[@bigmeaniemem]

I loved this theme before now I love it even more

[@Sepoipaping]

Yuki is Jesus confirmed

[@Talguy21]

While I agree that some of the changes in the MIDI version really elevate that version as art, I just don't like the instrumentation changes in the "sinister" part. And given that section is my favorite part of the track, I think I still like the PC-98 version more personally. Judas Kiss is still an overlooked gem of a track in either version, though. These two characters deserve to be reincarnated, imo. I think there's a story here that deserves to be fleshed out in a modern game.

[@crow8938]

Dark Road - MOF

[@raikaria3090]

There's quite a lot of meaning in Stage 4 in general in MS. The place takes part in a field of Ice. Mai is an Ice Witch. Now; the lowest circle of Hell in Dante's Inferno is for Treachery. And it's not fire. It's Ice. And it contains guess who... Judas. For that matter; Yuki represents Wrath; which is your traditional fire hell. Makai and Mystic Square has quite a lot of Chrisitanity references, Shinki is pretty much outright Lucifer/Satan; even living in Pandemonium [Lucifer's castle in Paradise Lost]

[@annefrank125]

Judas' Kiss has been one of my top 10 Touhou songs for years by now. I don't really care it's not popular.

[@FrancoKing419]

If you hadn't made this video, i probably wouldn't have known about the song or boss fight

[@XziledBlog]

finally, someone gets me

[@orbofpondering]

Don’t know if it’s considered underrated, but I think that Maple Dream should be recognized for the out of place masterpiece it is. Why is it the credits theme? Who knows.

[@TypedAnimal]

Just discovered this video through eurobeat, its interesting

[@epiphaniedbyjinsvoice3973]

Judas kiss Is my favorite PC 98 song

[@koisandz]

i think another underrated one could be decoration battle

[@shadowtorchx2456]

I really like Mai, wish she have more arts tbh.

[@erinboyle2889]

I always target Yuki so I get Mai’s theme because it slaps

[@mognitarco]

Mai theme is one of my favorite song in all touhou but i like a bit more Yuki's theme

[@TekNikEOSD]

honestly, i'd have to say the midi version of either peaceful romancer or maple wise are even more underrated than this. it's strange how i got recommended this shortly after downloading a flac of this song though

[@epiphaniedbyjinsvoice3973]

Who Is Best? Yuki or Mai?

[@Megapig9001]

I’d say Yuki because I love how her fight is super aggressive to match her rage

[@3RDplayer]

To me it's Mai, as I wrote in my other comment: her friend dies, and all she cares about is that she finally can show her true power only to get what she deserves for being overly confident. Or maybe I just like mischievous but tragic characters in fiction.

[@mabelpines1533]

an ordeal from god is a great song but it's very obscure, zun let his friend use mima in a separate series i think?

[@oranjaglad8648]

Tbh I like to think Mai and Yuki are twin sisters (especially since Shinki implies that everyone in MS are her creations), and the reason Mai says that Yuki was deadweight is supposed to represent sibling rivalry (meanwhile Yuki seems to genuinely care for Mai's wellbeing, which is also normal behavior for sisters). However, with how you analyzed the midi version of Judas Kiss, maybe adding to this headcanon, it represents how at the end of the day, Mai and Yuki are still sisters, and that they shouldn't let any of their flawed natures get in the way of their relationship.

[@Linterna2401]

I think I have to pick up pc 98 again.

[@john-cd1zm]

Huh I didn't know this

[@lukealias1uk345]

It is very weird how your thumbnail style is exactly the same as whoisthisgit's

[@Megapig9001]

A friend of mine also pointed this out lol. I watch a lot of their videos, but never realized my thumbnail style is the same. It’s a nice way to avoid breaking Touhou guidelines.

[@syaifulramadhaniii8010]

for me underrated song: kotohime,sariel,mima??

[@Narematto]

Hi you should watch Fantasyviolon animation. He plan to make a manga about this one day i really love his inspiration.

[@sasukcool8357]

You forgot about power of darkness, touhou 2 stage 2 boss theme

[@R8Spike]

Meira theme is Great

[@Derk_Mage]

Wait, so You telling Me that Yuki/Mai gets killed? And not knocked out??

[@Megapig9001]

PC-98 was crazy

[@R8Spike]

Ehh it's all headcannons, I think they get knocked out after loosing, but sence it's over a river :shrug:

[@IexistIguessidk]

Honestly: Hard to say after looking at the dialogue. With Reimu and Yuuka the one that is left at the end either leads them to their next destination or points towards it (except beating Yuki first with Yuuka). So at least one is certainly alive. Marisa just wants to fight a stronger opponent and it really does not imply much Mima is the most interesting, but also kinda changes depending on who is beaten first. Now first a bit of context: Yuki mentions to Mima that she will lead her to a "place where" she "can rest for eternity". Also side note: Mai says here she will defeat Mima for Yuki and she should stop grumbling. Take that how you will Now the interesting part: If you beat Mai first, Mima will say she will say to Yuki she will take her there (the place where she can rest for eternity) and that the "other girl is waiting [...] there". So Mima seemingly killed Mai. However if you beat Yuki first Mima will say to Mai that she will "leave the weaklings alone". Now I see this as her just leaving them and both surviving (tho I can totally be off). Now I got all this from the Touhou Wiki reading the translations of the story Scenarios. (en.touhouwiki.net/wiki/Mystic_Square/Story) Just choose the scenario. So I dunno. In two scenarios at least one survives, one scenarios really doesn't imply much and the last has two versions. So at this point just choose your own version.

[@RayTC]

not even the most "underrated" pc98 theme BY FAR.

[@f.u.m.o.5669]

True

[@Zackylorin]

im still too pissed at yuki and mai to like them as characters because they have ruined way too many runs of mine

[@Jazkal-V420]

Which

[@user-bz3ul8su7c]

J