The Move Assist is Banned in Competitive Gen 5. Here's Why.

The Move Assist is Banned in Competitive Gen 5. Here's Why.
Pokemon can be crazy sometimes.
Assist is banned on pokemon showdown in BW because it can lead to some dangerous strategies...
Join the Team Freeze Discord! / discord

[@anilbalram7768]

I used to use lagging tail on Liepard with Assist and Phantom Force. Prankster makes you disappear first but lagging tail makes the actual attack go last.

[@coleyinger4631]

Big brain

[@MallorcaDuck]

@@coleyinger4631 I third that

[@Delcatty16]

This strategy is usually done with Dive, as you're less likely to encounter a water immunity than any Normal-Type. It was called Dive Cats. This strategy is why in generation 6 and onwards, Assist could no longer call two turn moves that grant partial immunity on the first turn.

[@itzdatduck_yt5141]

Moves with more priority then prankster do destroy starts like that

[@MudkipNerd]

would this work with thundurus or tornadus? they have prankster and fly

[@nicholasschmidt2864]

To anyone else wondering, hazards are obtained with Imposter Ditto copying the opponent's hazard setter. If Ditto fails, Abomasnow's Hail is used as a backup if the opponent doesn't have a lot of Lefties users or Liepard can sneak in a Nasty Plot. The rest of the team is mainly running Protect or Endure with Covet or Focus Punch, with some niche moves like Trick.

[@robinsong4298]

Solid addition brother. Wrapped up my curiosities and addressed em. Ty.

[@SPZ-gv2on]

Also note that because you have prankster roar to shuffle until you pull their rocker, and every serious team has a rocker, you can't just not send it out. Assuming they don't have weather, abomasnow's hail chip adds up quick. The strategy is almost 100% matchup and luck, if you don't have the answer you lose and if you do you win.

[@swampboat8725]

@@SPZ-gv2on Ah, and because Liepard is faster than most rockers it will switch into Ditto first and they can't just switch to dodge the transform. That makes a lot of sense, thanks for clarifying!

[@robertofratello5203]

​@@CyberchaoX It would also likely fail if the opponent spots this strategy and never brings out his hazard setter(s), switching it out immediately if it's forced in by roar. You should know the strategy and recognize it before battle start (liepard+ditto is a foolproof trademark of that, at least in OU), and play accordingly. It's still possible that the assist player wins through hail + liepard boosts on setter predicted switchins. But a good player should win most of the times. It's only annoying as hell, so they banned it.

[@qsns_]

@@robertofratello5203 liepard is faster than most hazard setters so if the rocker gets roared in, the switch to ditto occurs before the opponent switches out. this is the part that makes rocks quite easy to get up

[@Pao-vo8mf]

"while it's not unstopabble, it's uncompetitive" - exactly, and that's what many people fail to see when they say that any cheesy, broken strat shoudn't be banned because counters exist... it's not about being uncounterable. it's about deviously exploiting a mechanic that makes the competitive environment poor and unhealthy -- the more limited counters you need to have to stop specific gimmick strats, the more predictable and uniform everyone's teams become.

[@beta511ee4]

Your opinion, m8.

[@mylorddio8272]

That's what happens when you turn an RNG heavy game into a competitive play. You have multiple other RNG relaying things like Serena Grace and Scald burns deciding entire games but you ban a holy ass move just sometimes its annoying. As soon as you KNOW about the team you wont lose to it again it's not inflatable not hard to beat ONCE you know about it but know ban it cause noobs fall for it lol. I hate this community

[@rainbowskin3379]

@@mylorddio8272 This is the case for a lot of competitive games. The game has a baseline, but isn't competitively balanced, so they community has to make rulings to make the game more competitive. This strategy is uncompetitive as it requires that the opponent have specific counters or you lose automatically, which in turn makes teams stale.

[@jamclone]

What about stall as a whole? Do you think stall in general is uncompetitive or is it simply a viable strategy? Maybe it's just specific types?

[@rainbowskin3379]

@@jamclone stall strats aren't uncompetitive as long as they aren't uncounterable, or rely too heavily on luck. That's why evasion strats are banned, because it's not a game of skill, it just turns matches into what's essentially a series of coin flips.

[@Jojo-on7pk]

in pokemon showdown, I once made a balanced hackmons team where all 6 pokemon had assist. I used the remaining 18 slots to get 1 good special attack move of every type. It was really fun because it was similar to a metronome only team, but with a guaranteed good damage on all the available moves. Then generation 8 came out and it doesn't have the move assist for some reason so I can no longer use this concept, very unfortunate

[@MasterArchfiend]

Yeah, GameFreak really didn’t consider how many fun ideas they would be killing by removing moves and Pokémon. Or maybe they did and just had to do it anyway and block out the woes. Either way, they cut out too many fun things once we got to the Switch.

[@davidahia8311]

Makes a lot of sense. I always love WeedleTwineedle's Assist/prankster cheese videos, and this takes that strategy and turns it into a really cruel slog. Do you think that they might implement this ban in other formats with Assist/prankster? The screenshot you showed mentioned that Defog and Heavy Duty Boots dampens the strategy in subsequent generations, but I don't know if it counters it wholesale. EDIT: Explainer in replies. Assist doesn't call Roar anymore, so there is no need to apply this ban to any generation save V.

[@maagic2031]

This strategy caught the eyes of gamefreak and assist is no longer able to call Roar after Gen 5. Dive and other similar moves got cut off of the assist list for also enabling dumb strategies like this.

[@borby4584]

@@maagic2031 yep. Interestingly, though, Natural Gift was also barred from Assist despite not having cheese attached, And Transform was barred after Gen 4

[@estebanatachaoarguedas6321]

@@maagic2031 What about Prankster Copycat Roar?

[@maagic2031]

@@estebanatachaoarguedas6321 Roar was added to Copycat's list of uncallable moves in Gen 6

[@davidahia8311]

@@maagic2031 Nice! Thanks for the explainer.

[@pieapplebomb]

was genuinely so confused by the title of this video until i watched it and realized i had assist confused with helping hand. I was just like, "how and why would they ban a move that does literally nothing in singles?"

[@lpfan4491]

Same happened to me.

[@skinnysnorlax1876]

It doesn't do nothing. It makes your enemy hit you harder. Big brain

[@djroscurro9859]

@@skinnysnorlax1876 biggest brain

[@skinnysnorlax1876]

@@djroscurro9859 it increases the recoil damage they take.

[@djroscurro9859]

@@skinnysnorlax1876 even bigger brain

[@joooja]

In VGC I remember UK Nationals 2014 someone going 6-2 with divecats, assist but with dive/fly instead of roar. Went first with assist, then lagging tail guaranteed always going last. Was obviously beatable with any -1 priority moves or extreme speed, but could beat any unprepared team 😆 (didn't top cut). Also had the same in VGC16 with dark void and ditto copying Ubers, but with less success.

[@PlaguevonKarma]

Oh my god, I remember this--

[@joooja]

@@PlaguevonKarma 😁 yep, think Kay gave it to them

[@lemonadogirl4082]

Okay but divecats is the most hilarious archetype name in ever

[@untitiled1092]

@@lemonadogirl4082 lmfao is that the actual name?

[@lemonadogirl4082]

@@untitiled1092 you'd have to ask Oztekin219 lol

[@LtMuggs]

Man, I love this series. Very cool

[@Fig_Bender]

It's excellent to have some more insight into broken strategies. Keep it up man, love your stuff

[@AnarchoCatBoyEthan]

Oh this is very interesting, as always great vid. Keep up the great work!

[@theoverseer393]

I think assist shouldn’t be banned, but it should ban assist-roar/whirlwind specifically. If this doesn’t work, maybe just banning assist on prankster mons?

[@misirtere9836]

The problem is that banning Assist-Roar in particular is an *extemely* complex ban, because the whole reason assist strats work is because the ENTIRE REST OF THE TEAM has been carefully curated to only have moves Assist can't call. So you have to check the entire team in order to ban the specific strategy, vs just banning the move in general, which only requires checking a single move.

[@Main_Protagonist]

yea they banned funbro before, why not ban assist on prankster users :| guess you could entrain prankster somehow, but it would require more setup and if you lose to this you deserve it

[@chilledpiplup]

Smogon tends to avoid complex bans like that. Like when zygarde 50% was banned in gen 7 ppl were saying to just ban thousand arrows which was the main reason zygarde was busted. Doing that would have hurt zygarde 10% which wouldn't have been fair

[@VJT5370]

Who runs assist on their team without this particular strategy.

[@breloommaster12]

@@chilledpiplup actually, what you described is a 'blanket/general ban', like when they banned Power Construct from everything that has it (even if it's just two mons). Complex bans are 'specific bans' like "ban Thousand Arrows from ONLY Zygarde-50%"

[@sagacious03]

Neat analysis video! Thanks for uploading!

[@nonplayercharacter12333]

There are other counters to this strat. You use a Pokémon with Soundproof to not get roared or Suction Cups to not get switched out.

[@Christoph8]

Or Taunt.

[@darkjackl999]

Dark types make it fail too

[@SerperiorSoup]

@@darkjackl999 darks being immune to prankster wasnt a feature in gen 5

[@arealbigfish]

what good soundproof/suction cups users are there in bw ou though?

[@nelson5073]

Another way is to use priority moves yourself, prankster is +1 priority, so you can use +1 priority moves (bullet punch, mach punch, aqua jet, status moves with another prankster user, etc.) with a pokemon faster than liepard, or moves like extreme speed and fake out that have higher priority.

[@lancers7]

I'm normally against bans but in this case it's an expolitive cheesy strat. I get having fun with gimmick strats but having to have something specific to counter in what is in essence a exploit strat is just dumb.

[@Oboromaru]

I never played any competitive past gen 2 so this is literally mind blowing to me. I never knew assist worked that way, and I would have never thought to build a whole team around moves which were unable to be called by assist. Competitive for newer gens is WILD 😂

[@Mimi-qe7qz]

There's actually a similar strategy that is legal to use with prankster copycat riolu. You first stack hazards like rocks and spikes with Ferro, skarmory, garchomp, jirachi, whatever. Take out gliscor/priority/magic guard user as they can either heal off the damage, outspeeds prankster or ignore hazard. Get in riolu safely on a defensive pokemon. You can substitute first or just roar. After that spam copycat untill the opposing team is wittled down or untill you die, finish it off with a scarfer like latios, garchomp, keldeo or a sweeper like trick room reuniclus

[@swankydanky8025]

agreed but gen 5 can hardly be considered "new"

[@leaffinite3828]

@@swankydanky8025 i guess it is technically newer than gen 2 lol

[@Skylark0000]

I went against one of these teams a while back and the only reason i won was because i was running the double magic guard psychic comp.

[@nicklewry3854]

Dang, I understand that it has to go, but it’s honestly such a cool strat. I love how it leads to such a unique team-building situation for the rest of the team

[@thedon6079]

It’s really not unique at all. You’re forced to use a specific set of trash moves on ur other Pokémon, and what type of Pokémon they are is fairly irrelevant, apart from ditto and Abomasnow. You think it’s unique but it’s actually just the same thing with a diff color scheme

[@nicklewry3854]

@@thedon6079 idk man, building an entire team around mons that are optimized using to use only moves that can’t be called by assist is pretty damn unique imo. Like there is no other context that calls for that type of structure afaik. That heavily limits the move pool of the entire team, leading to sets that you would otherwise never see

[@thedon6079]

@@nicklewry3854 You realize their sets mean nothing apart from allowing assist tho right?. Nothing creative about just picking random moves on a list (the list being moves that can’t be picked by assist)

[@nicklewry3854]

@@thedon6079 but they’re not going to be ‘random’ moves at all. They’re going to be sets that comprise of optimal non-assist calling moves. It makes you have to think about how to best optimize a set/team with 95% of the moves off limits, Idk how that doesn’t seem unique to you

[@thedon6079]

@@nicklewry3854 You realize the optimal non-assist sets are just a bunch of trash moves like covet right? You're arguing the difference between compelte trash and slightly better trash. They're not unique at all as they both end up losing if assist strat fails. You can use this assist strat with ur pokemon having "opimatl non assist calling moves" and it would lose just as often than if you just had ur other pokemon only have 1 move on them

[@Ruckus790]

I appreciate videos that get to the point and don't dance around it to artificially extend the length of the video.

[@ZizZap4]

Was wondering why this move disappeared. While it's sad to see, this definitely makes sense.

[@DemxnTheyThem]

Makes sense. It's similar to top-decking in competitive card games. It encourages similar team-builds for the sake of competitive viability, and they're frustrating to be matched against because you block out your opponent from getting to play.

[@isaacmillen8789]

I remember when there was no limit to sleep (you could put as many Pokémon to sleep as possible) and saw a priority spore Liepard and since Liepard had substitute, it was unkillable without infiltrator or something like that

[@shirshobanerjee7751]

And in gen 5 base unova dex , I’m pretty sure that, chandelure was the only viable infiltrator mon , and it’s weak to dark

[@Orengi-kun]

I used to do this same strategy years ago lmao, except I didn't know how to setup hazards, so I just used Assist Infernape to setup Stealth Rock and then spam Roar. It lost to pretty much any priority/faster mons, but when it worked it was hilarious to see the salt.

[@chinicherian8514]

It was banned because liepard could summon moves like dig and fly and because of prankster they would become priority moves on the first turn but since the liepard would be holding a lagging tail it will go last on the next turn so it cannot be damaged

[@ttttttttttttttttt.]

nope, thats considerably worse

[@SPZ-gv2on]

That wasn't why, it was shuffling, but that was similarly unhealthy.

[@darwinwatterson4568]

wow this is a really cool strategy, :0 never heard of this before

[@GamebooAdvance]

I remember another fun assist set that didn't completely destroy your team on a bad matchup was throwing fly on some of the other pokemon and giving liepard a lagging tail and min speed. It would priority fly into the air then be so slow it stays in the air the next turn when the other pokemon atks because it's so slow

[@maguirebentz797]

As someone who played Gen 5 OU, I am pleased it got banned. My dragonite with extreme speed could kill it, as with copycat riolu, but more annoying than anything. What felt like 10+ turns of hell to snag a ko did not feel worth it

[@garvitdhamija1611]

there's also the moveset wolfey explained which is assist dive with lagging tail which essentially makes you invincible (except no guard or surf )

[@metleon]

There was a short time in Gen 5 DW OU where Assist could call Dragon Tail on Showdown. This means that you didn't even need to set up Stealth Rock before spamming Assist. Once it was discovered that Assist couldn't call Dragon Tail or Circle Throw, Prankster Assist disappeared, since strong Pokemon like Darkrai and Keldeo were allowed in the format. Roar+Copycat Riolu sort of took is place, though Riolu was frail enough that it could usually be OHKO'd before Roaring, and any faster priority move would break the chain.

[@grrgrrgrr0202]

The problem with Dragon Tail is that its 90% accuracy can screw it over big time.

[@mungolockhart3875]

I understand why it was banned, but I was also wondering if I could just roar + entry hazard my way to victory before this video. You answered both questions. Although now theres more ways around it, it's still a funny team idea.

[@esrohm6460]

i love this. the second i saw that assist gen 5 can get roared i wanted to try roar looping especially as dark pokemon don't have prankster immunity. but i really wonder just why its not locked? all the damaging + switch moves cannot be pulled.

[@TrainerGoldAlt]

Ahh yes the thing that got me into showdown is getting covered here. Cool

[@Mewseeker]

The reason for the ban makes sense to me. That being said, would there be a way to specifically ban Prankster Roar teams instead of just Assist in general? Like having the game check if your team have Assist and then check if your team have Prankster and then if you only have Roar as an assist move. If that could be done, I believe this would be better solution than just doing a blanket ban of Assist.

[@Moleoflands]

They don't like complicated bans. They'd rather ban assist than work out banning assist and roar but only together

[@ttttttttttttttttt.]

@@Moleoflands also assist has no usage outside of that strategy, so there's no need to overcomplicate things anyway

[@rainbowskin3379]

@@ttttttttttttttttt. precisely. It would be more controversial if assist was being used in any way outside of this specific instance, but it isn't

[@funwithcoding2818]

@@rainbowskin3379 u sure about that?

[@rainbowskin3379]

@@funwithcoding2818 assist is quite literally not present in the competitive scene outside of cheese strats. Cheese is usually the reason for the removal of moves or strategies from the comp scene

[@prokemongaming5149]

It's not ok to make every team run a counter to strategy. For something like double team, it's completely useless if you prevent it from going up via roar, taunt or toxic, but forcing every team to run that is disgusting and running into one without proper preparation would result in an instant loss, or would result on a cheap, luck reliant game. Something like baton pass is also banned because it's too broken. If you don't stop the snowball via taunt or something it would start rolling down the hill and obliterate your entire team. Usually in baton pass 4-5 members of a team are pretty garbage out side of baton passing and if you eliminate the 1 sweeper they have its an auto loss for them but if you can't the snowball effect of such strategies makes the game uncompetitive.

[@JarlinJamesNDK13]

you should focus on these types of videos period. I see so many showdown videos but I don't understand a lot of them your videos help understanding why something happens and it is interesting as well.

[@arachnofiend2859]

Reminds me a lot of baton pass teams, which were banned for a similar reason.

[@breloommaster12]

Yeah it's pretty much the same "win or lose on teambuilder" situation; the battle barely even matters when the match is decided before it even starts

[@TheBenchLord]

Also, I believe Shadow Force + Lagging Tail works as well with this

[@bmac4]

Fun fact, Assist Liepard with Spore spam is remarkably effective, if very gimmicky, in Anything Goes games where sleep clause is banned. Just go Assist/Dark Pulse/Nasty Plot/Substitute, subbing on the first sleep turn and getting boosts on other turns until your x6 Dark Pulse is unstoppable

[@shirshobanerjee7751]

In natdex, I tried using an assist infernape with a power herb and with a smeargle in the back with geomancy. It wasn’t good, but it was funny

[@kuroraijin]

Freezai if you can see this please please do a video on Assist-Revival Blessing in NatDex Gen9 It's insanely unfair cause of PP stalling I was a victim of that and man was it infuriating Thank you very much P.S. love your content

[@guyinthecorner0]

This is pretty much the same idea in MTG as some cascade decks. If you make sure your mana values are set up properly (which is not including lots of low cost spells) you will *always* hit your cascade target. Useful for Living End decks

[@darthhydreigon820]

Justified ban, if I MU fish by just gambling away a match to the team the opponent brought it sounds very bs and just straight up throws skill out the window

[@tjmario64]

I'm also speculating that Soundproof and Suction Cups would also thwart the strategy.

[@segafreak2000]

They would, but no mon viable in OU actually had those abilities. That basically meant you had to dedicate one team slot to a mon that was explicitly trash in the tier, on the off-chance that you could potentially run into an opponent using this strategy but being complete deadweight otherwise.

[@cjjcrodrigo1149]

Though prankster roar doesn't work now, prankster spore exists

[@Celia_Dawn]

What gets Prankster spore?

[@GyroCannon]

"It was banned because it was competitive" is so important, because yeah it's not like it'll kill the game, but forcing everyone to run a magic bounce or e speed user on every team is just not good for the meta. A healthy meta encourages experimentation and variety.

[@imnotnarcian]

>stop having fun

[@ZYK736521]

I believe I was one of the main precursors of Gen 5 Liepard because I abused the Taunt, T-Wave, Swagger and Foul Play in Ubers because there was no reliable way to shut down Entry Hazards setters (specially Deoxys-Speed), Scarf Kyogre's Water Spout or even Darkrai's Dark Void... Turns out Liepard was way more functional that gen because facilitated all of my hazards with a max hazards Red Card Forretress and the rest of my semi-offensive bulky team... Why not Thundurus as he could do the exact same but faster? Because STAB Foul Play was way too strong that could 1 or 2HKO any one after a Swagger so beginning with Swords Dance or Dragon Dance against it was lethally counterproductive... Watching this video involving Liepard again in a ban makes me feel... Nostalgic... Makes me feel like a hidden genious and Liepard was my 2nd unorthodox strategy cuz my 1st was the unfamous Riolu... Turns out that Riolu in Ubers was stupidly viable in 5 gen

[@StepBaum]

Mans climbing the subcount fast. literally a thousand in three days

[@upartyslimak5859]

magic bounce was back then only on psychic types, so it wasnt a stop neither. The only cheesy solution to that cheese is something that stops roar itself (soundproof, suction cups). But considering pokemon with these abilities would hinder any team they are within.... Yeah, pretty close to uncounterable, espiecially when met on a ladder

[@nerdyfalco408]

I thought it was because thanks to moves like dig, if you're normally slower than your opponent, you become invincible

[@wishonpleiades6288]

You can also perform a Prankster Roar strategy in Little Cup with Copycat Riolu

[@zachywatcher2312]

Also soundproof counters it to

[@masterbunny6900]

I would put it as your team has to have like 5 moves covet could use but other than that I agree

[@cameroncorbin6952]

Me not figuring out wtf a "leaper" is until over a minute in.

[@XenithShadow]

When gen 5 was the current gen, and assist was banned along with swagger i beleive liepard was in NU, so assist liepard was the fastest priority user in the tier. Also copycat roar riolu was was an alternative to assist liepard.

[@Rainer2424]

Don’t forget about lagging tail dove/fly, prankster assist makes it yo first and the item makes it go last the next turn, making you literally unhittable

[@TheColdestplay]

except by using a minus priority move like avalanche, revenge, counter will make you move later, and any +priority move will let you move before lagging tail prankster goes off. so its not unhittable

[@charlottearanea7507]

I remember doing this back in the day on Pokemon Online. First time I ever got called a slur on the internet. Good times.

[@kazuichisouda2026]

*Dive Cats intensifies*

[@iceicicle3046]

I love assist teams which is why I am so sad it's gone in gen 8

[@itzorangesteve2853]

considering the only pokemon with prankster and assist are the liepard evolution line, they could've just banned them from using assist, but it's not like the move was being used anyways

[@craftofdoom4293]

Can you still use dive cat in casual normal Pokémon showdown gen 5

[@darylj8682]

Was Assist fixed after gen5 not to include roar/ww and so forth?

[@assortedcave7408]

Does this not lose to an opposing pokemon’s Prankster ability if they out-speed no? Like Prankster + Nature Power that’ll turn into tri-attack, potentially freezing/paralysing/burning the Leopard? Or does Assist have boosted priority?

[@Sunaki1000]

Thats like a YGO loop.

[@suezuccati304]

"In competitive games we cannot have cheesy strategies that can win the game before it even starts!" Yu Gi Oh: **sweats profusely*

[@elijahpadilla5083]

Most FTKs, which are similar all-or-nothing strats to Prankster Assist Roar over here, do get banned. Think Frog Driver, Explosion FTK, Tempest FTK, Iron Hog Cannon FTK, Danger FTK, Independent Neptune FTK . . . when discovered, one critical piece of each of these instant death machines was immediately banned, be it Substitoad, Chicken Game, Tempest Magician, or even a member of a prominent anime archetype like Supreme King Starving Venom. Build-a-boards have become a bit of an issue, but usually there's enough ways to stop the incoming train of negates, or at the very least deal with the bosses so they're not a problem (Dark Ruler, Droplet, and the bowling ball exist for a reason).

[@cheryl9809]

Why doesn't assist prankster change roar from -6 priority to -5 priority from the +1 priority from prankster?

[@gouell2290]

I think it is because assist don't make you use another move it mimic the effect of another move, so you use assist at priority 1 (0 for assist +1 for prankster) then it take the effect of roar. Same reason it allow you to make a priority 1 earthquake, you use assist, wich gain priority 1 because of pranckster, then it take the effect of earthquake

[@iimuffinsaur]

til assist is skittys signature move

[@nwut]

wolfey covered the topic like 4 days ago

[@AmalgamJiena]

I heard they fixed this in gen 6. Moves like copycat and assist lose their prankster priority if they call a move with lowered priority

[@driptcg]

Nice videos

[@VioletLeFey]

assist + V create + Contrary Spinda = The best thing ever created.

[@Sirius10117]

The better option would have been times male swap moves uncallable or am I wrong?

[@Smfsableye]

Would this strategy break the Battle Subway?

[@bernardohchongching224]

No one gonna use soundproof Exploud as the perfect counter?

[@dracocrusher]

This sounds like a really fun way to troll a friend in a match, lol. "Yo, let's play Pokemon for old times' sake!" (4 mediocre Pokemon down) (Sends out 'Simba') (Roar Spam Intensifies)

[@akinako4064]

When you MUST build around a certain Strategie (like one specific pokemon) to not lose for free, it is definetly bannable. So yeah, you need to have a counter for this strat, not to guarantee to win, but to guarantee to NOT lose immediately

[@darkfire9969]

I was thinking about Power Trip, then realize that is seven gen haha

[@mysticmongrel1289]

This is why Stealth Rock in the game

[@darkjackl999]

Ironically the pokemon doing this counters it prankster moves fail against Dark types

[@emperoricy3598]

This time i actually know why its banned. The damn dive cats

[@DoodleWill]

I wonder how it'd fair in Gen 8. Since Dark types are now immune to Prankster and Heavy Duty Boots basically just ignoring all hazards.

[@StrengthOfADragon13]

Gotta love dive cats... Wait, did they not find the VGC strat? Throw lagging tail on and have the only callable move be dive. You always go last on the damage turn, and you go first on the prankster turn, meaning you don't take damage while dealing damage

[@user-nr8iv1jm5l]

Ferrothorn kinda just shits on that with Iron Barbs + Leftovers

[@wypmangames]

i mean, they could also just make it so roar isnt callable by the assist move (since they got so many moves that cant be called either anyway) and then it would not be needed to ban the move

[@jojo6783f]

Smogon cant really change game mechanics

[@wypmangames]

@@jojo6783f anything is possible if you try hard enough

[@jojo6783f]

@@wypmangames so you want smogon people to go back in time to when gen 5 was in development and change how the move works?

[@wypmangames]

@@jojo6783f cant they adjust it only on the competitive mode? Why are you thinking of only the most overcomplicated solutions

[@jojo6783f]

@@wypmangames smogon doesnt change how moves and abilities work

[@jamirimaj6880]

How about a Prankster who can learn Roar?

[@MasterAarott]

Wouldn't banning the combination of assist with either problem moves and abilities solve the issue?

[@dawn2911]

They dont do complex bans because then it opens up the flood gates for other mons. "Jirachi could probably be in UU if you dont let it use any moves that have flinching effects" stuff like that would just be a nightmare to deal with so they cut the middle man and just ban mons or moves

[@lxa2815]

is this why dark became immune to prankster in gen 7?

[@Ledzepisbest1]

Please tell me how assist calculates accuracy. For example,if I use assist and Thunder is chosen does it have 70% chance of hitting or does assist always hit irrespective of accuracy/evasion stat drops? Thank you

[@ferociousmaliciousghost]

I think it's more or less the same as using the move. So, there is not really any point of assist if you aren't using prankster or if you don't like playing with luck.

[@meepswag35]

I think Riolu can use prankster roar in gen 5?

[@lulu82o]

This is somewhat similar to baton pass ban. If you didn't have a counter, you would lose, if you did, you were likely gonna win.

[@MetroAndroid]

Now we just need a competitive game with tons of balanced cheese strats that are fun and unique.

[@DaneWorms]

I remember I fought a rando on B/W online 3v3 and got wrecked by this set

[@agotisan1]

I didn’t notice any dark types against Liepard. Wouldn’t dark types (who are immune to prankster) be immune to this strategy?

[@HawkHogan_]

In Gen 5, Dark Types aren't immune to moves used from Prankster

[@agotisan1]

@@HawkHogan_ ohhhhh I glossed over that part of the title 😵‍💫 Thank you for the clarification

[@acc3209]

I need to know what niche has base form rotom in the tier

[@slashb7836]

Related: Riolu used to be able to run Focus Sash, Copycat, and Roar. It could Copycat its own Roar over and over. Copycat was eventually changed to not be able to copy Roar, likely because of this

[@spumy_plughole1191]

Does magic bounce reflect roar?

[@andrew1435]

It makes sense but what I don't get is why ban assist but not copycat? You can use this exact same strategy except with copycat without having to make the rest of your team garbage. To be fair, the only mon that can do this is Riolu but still. Setup your hazards, get Riolu in, have Riolu use roar, copycat until your opponent stops you if they can at all.

[@heybro8845]

I can see why it’s banned but from my rudimentary knowledge on the gen 5 metagame, it doesn’t seem uncompetitive. Sure, it technically can decide the game before it starts, but its counters are extremely plentiful and can fit on basically any relevant team style. Dragonite fits on a lot of team styles including Rain and Weatherless, Reuniclus is quite prevalent in the metagame and sand teams can make work of it, sun teams tend to run magic bounce users, etc. Given how wildly easy it is to stop it seems akin to banning FEAR rattata. It’s a gimmick that barely works.

[@Hushoo]

Couldn't they add roar to the list alongside dragon tail?

[@kingwinifred4393]

No, because smogon does not change in-game mechanics

[@mr_snowy14]

Thanks for getting to the point and not making a 10 minute filler video.

[@RichardBlaziken]

Prankster Riolu with Copycat can actually do this as well, but it's much easier to counter. Under the right circumstances, though, it's just as broken.

[@imperialorder2417]

was it not also banned due to the very interestering strategy of lagging tail + assist dive/dig/phantom force, which lead to your prankster user almost being untouchable.

[@IkeReviews]

Gen 9 with revival blessing 😬