The Mystery of the Marquette and Bessemer No. 2

The S.S. Marquette and Bessemer No. 2 was a railroad car ferry that operated on Lake Erie between Conneaut, Ohio and Port Stanley, Ontario. While making its last run of the season on December 7, 1909, the ship departed from Conneaut into a massive winter storm but never reached its destination. She sank with all hands and to this day 112 years later the ship's wreck has not been found. It is one of the most sought-after shipwrecks on the Great Lakes.
Sources used in this video:
Patrick McLeod - www.marquettean...
Great Lakes Maritime Collection, Alpena County Library - greatlakeships...
Historical Collections of the Great Lakes, Bowling Green State University - www.bgsu.edu/l...
Conneaut Public Library - www.conneaut.l...
Maritime History of the Great Lakes - images.maritim...
Library of Congress - www.loc.gov/pi...
Cleveland Memory Project, Michael Schwartz Library - clevelandmemor... ______________________________________________________
Almost in F - Tranquillity by Kevin MacLeod is licensed under a Creative Commons Attribution 4.0 license. creativecommon...
Source: incompetech.com...
Artist: incompetech.com/
Ambiment - The Ambient by Kevin MacLeod is licensed under a Creative Commons Attribution 4.0 license. creativecommon...
Source: incompetech.com...
Artist: incompetech.com/
#marquetteandbessemer #shipwrecksofthegreatlakes ______________________________________________________
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[@RailroadStreet]

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[@jo-annknowles1373]

Excellent video . Ty so much for making this . I was just wondering if anyone had been out looking since you made this ? The anchor chain and fishing net comments are really intriguing. I wish I was over there coz I would be wanting to check those out. Once again , thank you .

[@fokkerd3red618]

All due respect to the men who passed away on this vessel. Considering it almost floundered previous to this voyage, because of no stern gate, this company was absolutely negligent for allowing it to sail again without a stern gate.

[@PereMarquette1223]

It was typical of the car ferry’s back in the day

[@normanhill4028]

If the company had any brains, there coudl have been a moderately good stern-gate fabricated in 2 days flat. Even a modest one perhaps just 3 feet high would make the difference. But the company management was too stupid to recognize the dangers. And in that era, the management would be "generous" if they sent $250 to pay for the funeral.

[@maxpayne2574]

@@normanhill4028 The good old days when workers were just expendable.

[@nunya2954]

@@maxpayne2574 Apparently you aren't keeping up with 2022 workers rights. Workers are still expendable. U.S.A. factories and jobs overseas, IT, billing, collections, supply, human resources jobs, hospital medical record coding jobs, sent overseas. So many states with right to work laws, they can let you go for no reason...

[@johnengland8619]

@@normanhill4028 I bet your anti business

[@smartysmarty1714]

There's a term in aviation called "get home-itis". It's the act of flying into bad weather or with a mechanical problem or low fuel to "get home" fast no matter what. They actually teach us this phrase in training. Get home-itis has killed thousands of pilots and passengers throughout the years. These ships that head into dangerous conditions just to deliver a load a day or two faster are gambling with the same fate. When you consider the ships, communications (or lack of) and primitive safety measures of the time when this ship sank, it could be better described as a suicide mission.....or at least a Russian roulette mission. And to top it all off, the cargo that was so important never did get there....

[@daviddunsmore103]

Can confirm! 😃✈👍 "Get-home-itis" and its cousin "get-there-itis" are taught to every pilot, and have certainly taken the lives of many pilots foolish enough to not heed their instructors' warning. One instructor even pointed out that pilots who pushed their luck in bad weather and lost usually have clear skies at their funerals, three or four days later, so why not just wait those few days before going flying?! 🤷‍♂️ A related piece of wisdom says, "You're better to arrive at your destination a little bit late in this life, than to arrive a whole lot early into the next life!" 👏

[@charlesrudolphi890]

The rail cars became untied from their moorings and slowly tilted the ship to the rear end of ship and with the monster waves coming towards front of the ship only took a few minutes of time for the ship to sink several miles off coast. The captain and crew members Their time was short lived, because they had NO time to prepare to abandon ship, this is proven by survival food and gear found. May all sailors and family be resting in peace. Thanks, Charlie

[@maxpayne2574]

The same thing affects truckers with the same results.

[@dbspecials1200]

Today safety is the number one concern, in those days it just wasn't. they even factored in deaths when planning huge civil projects like a dam. and they were likely just trying to keep on schedule, not get delivery in early. that probably rarely happened back then..an endless stream of men stepped up to take very dangerous jobs in order to reach the place we are at today. but as you point out we're all human.

[@marhawkman303]

@@dbspecials1200 with this there's also the factor of not wanting to get stuck in the wrong port when the lake is iced over. Having a delivery get delayed for months? not ideal for you or the guy you're doing the delivery for.

[@pemcleod]

Thanks for the video. Hope one day they find my Great Grandfather's ship. We may be generations away from the tragedy but our families still want answers.

[@RailroadStreet]

No problem! I really appreciate your help and allowing me to use photos from your family's collection.

[@davidbrown6065]

Back in the late 1980's, my great uncle John "Scoop" Warren who was a commercial fisherman out of Port Burwell for 50 years +. As I remember slightly that he was setting his fishing nets one day around 8-10 miles S-SSW of the Sand Hills, just east of Port Burwell, went to pull his nets onto his fishing boat "the Edward J" in the following days, said that his nets snagged onto something that ripped them apart. Now he was fishing in 50-75 foot deep waters, but something happened and his nets and they sank deeper then what they would have usually went. Upon my uncles curiousity into what the hell was going on with the ripped nets. He said that he found with his fishing equipment (trawling/ fish finder and depth finder). That he discovered a very large anomaly on the bottom of the lake. I remember hearing this all being discussed with my great aunt June who was at home talking to my uncle John over the CB (ship to shore radio) while my grandmother and I was over to the house visiting my grandmothers sister June that morning. I remember that he was not very happy about the loss of his nets, but asked June to get a hold of Tony Lama, who was very knowledgeable about the areas around the lake near Port Burwell. I remember that John had talked to Tony at his house with what was out there and what could it have been. I do remember that Tony had taken his boat "the Checkmate" out to the area to find out more about what was on the bottom of the lake. If I remember correctly, Tony got back to my uncle and said to him that whatever it was that it was very huge in size and that it was almost in comparable in size to the bridge in Port Burwell in length. But being near the end of the season, Tony never did get back out there to do more searching and investigating. Tony was a deep water diver and salvage expert. Now as far as I can remember, Tony got sick just afterwards and never did get back out to that area for further searching and investigating. My uncle never mentioned anymore about it and as far as I know, he never went back to that area for fishing in. Now just back to the story of this ship. If the ship was heading to Port Stanley and did not enter the harbour, and was figured to have headed to Erieau harbour and didn't go there, but was later possibly spotted off shore of Port Bruce. then it would make total sense that the ship was on coarse to head to Port Dover, seeing that Port Dover was a familiar harbour and also would be protected better for entry because of the sheltered waters within the Long Point Bay. Port Burwell's harbour would have been filled with ice and during the winter months would have been a nightmare to try and enter especially being open to the open lake during the winter storm. So Port Dover would make the most sense for a ship to try and make way for. Now I know for fact, that the waters between Port Burwell and the end of Long Point are extremely dangerous, especially during the winter months and more especially during winter storms. I've learned from seasoned veterans of the lake from the fisherman who fish that area, that when the ice forms along the shoreline between Port Burwell and the end of Long Point, that when the waters currents are flowing, they increase in speed during storms and when these currents are traveling NNE-E that they will hit the shoreline and then will bounce off the shoreline and will travel back out into the lake heading in a S-SSE direction. They have also been described as being much like a under water rogue wave(s) and traveling at a very fast speed. Now if the ship was indeed heading to Port Dover, then one can consider that these under water rogue wave(s) could have been hitting the ship on her portside and simultaneously being pounded by the 15 foot waves and gale force winds on her starboard side causing her to potentially capsize and roll over and go down to her under water fate. This would make for the most sense, seeing that debris was being found east of Port Burwell and up and around Long Point, as well as where the currents would take any debris back across the lake to the Erie, PA areas.

[@RailroadStreet]

Wow! What a great story. I wonder if any other fishermen had their fishing nets snapped in the same spot your uncles did? That might be a good lead to explore if it hasn't been already. Even more odd, there was a newspaper article from March 1910 claiming someone had found railroad cars had been located under ice off Port Bruce. There was no follow up to the article. Same with another newspaper article from May 1928. Someone had found a message in a bottle which said, "The Bessemer is sinking 15 miles south of Port Stanley."

[@davidbrown6065]

@@RailroadStreet Just over a conversation a few days back. The ripped fishing nets that my Great Uncle had experienced maybe due to something that may have been already known about, according to a source with known information. But with further things from back around this same time. I have been in short conversation with a Master Deep Water Diver who is familiar with one's involved that will be getting in contact with me here in the new year. Now not all information has been revealed and shared on here due to there is more information that will need to be discussed and examined. But in either case that may be in the for coming. The potential last resting place of the ship just maybe within reach for research and being discovered. Now its just a matter of waiting and coming together to go over the missing information that I know of from the last living persons involved, which from them would leave me as the last living person alive that was with them all seeing that they have all passed away.

[@MatthewAnderson707]

From my time talking to shipwreck divers, researchers, and historians, which includes Dr. James Delgado, it would make a lot of sense if MB No. 2 never reached Long Point. I was hypothesizing the reports from Port Bruce and Port Stanley were the correct ones and that if MB No. 2 was originally headed due west for Rondeau (now Erieau), she probably changed course very soon after, the Captain probably realizing Long Point was closer and to get to the sheltered waters behind it, possibly Port Dover or another harbor east of Port Rowan. But the storm got the best of the ship as she was making the mad dash to the closest safe waters and she probably sank south or southeast of Port Burwell. Then taking in the factors of drift and the storm waves and winds, wreckage showed up east of the sinking position when the Davock found it. The idea she sank of Long Point was a red herring and the true location, like other wrecks found in the Great Lakes, is probably far off the debris field, similar to the SS Milwaukee or L.R. Doty sinkings. Even in the 1958 sinking of the Carl D. Bradley, which happened in the center of Lake Michigan, the wreckage and two survivors were found several miles away off one of the Manitou islands by the Coast Guard off Glen Arbor, Michigan. If I remember correctly, wasn't Edmund Fitzgerald also a case of wreckage found away from the actual wreck? In other words, I'm going to go against the popular belief and grain here and say I think the idea she sank off Port Burwell or Port Bruce makes more sense than Long Point.

[@carllafrance5510]

Hi Dave I was trawling with Miller on the Burwell clipper in 1967 3 miles upfrom the weather buoy there is a wreck sticking40 feet up off the bottom we thought it was a school of smelt I have dove on it 3 times Half the wreck is there theother half is flat We call it the Miller wreck There are coalcars and train trucks off New Glasgow Larry jackson pulled the rail up off it and got title to the wreck Ask frank prothrow

[@davidbrown6065]

@@MatthewAnderson707 The ship would have went down between Port Bruce and Port Burwell for sure as the first signs of debris was just found in that about 6-8 miles east of Port Burwell based on the above water wave action and currents. Now for as to where the location of the M/B 2 is right now for the location. There was some anomalies found and should be looked over again with side scan radar and metal detection. But there are still some pieces of the puzzle that had happened during that storm that even to this day has not been disgust in any public research that has been considered by myself when I was a child with a master diver, that even caught his attention that he never thought of and considered back then to possibly to be thought over about and put into an equation. The only little piece of a clue that I will share here to the public is. Is that a few days following after the disappearance of the M/B 2 is that the "SS Ashtabula" ran aground just outside the Port Burwell harbour that week and there are photos of it stuck in a book publishing about Port Burwell. There is another clue that is apart of it that was later found years later that could have only been from the M/B 2 herself. But I'm still waiting to hear back from a master diver to go over things to try and bring everything together. There is more to science from what happened back then to explain with what happened to the M/B 2 then what would explain to why she hasn't been found today.

[@db4239]

Excellent video. Interesting you mention the William B Davock. She would sink in the 1940 Armistice Day Storm off Little Sable Point, Lake Michigan. No survivors. Three unidentified sailors, possibly from the Davock, washed ashore and are buried in Ludington, Michigan. The Ludington Maritime Museum has an excellent exhibit on that storm.

[@jamesnelson6980]

What a great video! Thank you! As a former Great Lakes sailor, stories like this and others where boats have been lost, need to be told, so those who scoff at "it's just a lake" are made aware of the thousands of vessels and untold number of lives have become their graves. Keep up the excellent work!

[@jamesnelson6980]

Just another note.. Shenango #2 was sold to the Grand Trunk Railroad, and operated on Lake Michigan as the MUSKEGON. She was sold to the Pere Marquette Railroad, renamed the PERE MARQUETTE 16, and became the "jinx" of the fleet. She was underpowered, and caught in a nasty gale, grounded outside of Ludington, MI. Her back was broken, and she was laid up, later sold to Hammermill paper Co. Converted a freighter and then a barge, she sank in Lake Superior in 1922.

[@michaeltutty1540]

"Just a lake" certainly does not begin to describe any of the Great Lakes with the possible exception of Lake St. Clair. Each has its own distinct characteristics and wave patterns. There is a reason Great Lake ships are really ocean going vessels, particularly those who enter Lake Superior.

[@jamesnelson6980]

@@michaeltutty1540 I agree with you, Michael. The lakes deserve all the respect of the oceans, but when I tell people of 15 foot seas on Superior, or the southwest gales on Michigan, they say, "but it's just a lake!" Head down Huron in a real gagger, and tell me..."it's just a lake".

[@mikhailiagacesa3406]

Braver than I...I fished all around Erie PA. when late in summer a storm came up. Me and my sister insisted on being left onshore while my crazy father and Grandfather bobbed like a top for 10 minutes until they came in, acting all sheepish. I wasn't shocked at the storm itself, but by how fast the weather changed. Terrifying.

[@cherryrotella3714]

They are like inland seas

[@EthanCollier01]

I cant even imagine human beings going through this.. Being on a ship knowing youre going down.. having that freezing cold water touch your body. Literally accepting death. I have so much respect for the guys that work on the lakes for a living.

[@riverraisin1]

My sentiments exactly. The loneliness of knowing the inevitable is pending with no chance of a goodbye to family. Just sad.

[@rumanda36]

I had family members that worked that railroad, from its inception to its demise and several different names over the years (London to Port Stanley).Thank you for sharing their memories, these are stories they would tell us about and it’s just incredible to see it here.

[@paulmcmahon6875]

I know next to nothing about ships but it seems beyond strange and nearly criminal that any ship would be allowed in the water with a humungas hole in the stern.

[@mbryson2899]

Amazing that Lake crews had to endure so many risks and that they are rarely remembered. :( Thank you for sharing their stories.

[@MechaWolf0]

"Does anyone know where the love of God goes when the waves turn the minutes to hours?" Gordon Lightfoot; The Wreck of the Edmund Fitzgerald.

[@mbryson2899]

@@MechaWolf0 Definitely the most well known but far far far from the only one. 😢

[@MechaWolf0]

@Steven Van Niman Why? Those words speak for all who lost their lives on the Great Lakes, not just the crew of the Fitz.

[@van84agon]

Thank you for this story! Living in Port Burwell you quickly appreciate to respect Lake Erie. When the lake is 'angry' you can hear the roar all around the town and you appreciate being safe on land. At Christmas dinner we chatting about the unpredictable Lake Erie and the many many ships claimed by her storms. Had a Boxing Day drive yesterday and visited both Port Bruce and Port Stanley piers... the lake was as flat as glass, though the wind made the air feel far colder than the optimistic thermometer. Great job this video, keep up the hard work!

[@robertway5756]

Lake Erie is sure nothing to mess with. 😐

[@Myn6211]

Excellent video. My guess is the S.S. Marquette and Bessemer floundered off Long Point. That is one of the shallowest and roughtest areas on Lake Erie. There are often strong undertows in that area and the shoreline/cottage line is constantly being changed and eroded. Lake Erie is the most dangerous of all the great lakes because of her shallowness and how incredibly quick it's waters can become violent. Having grown up near and spent much time on that lake, I've seen many a nasty storm seeming to appear out of a sunny sky in a matter of minutes.

[@lightspeed4596]

Did not know this, I always thought Superior was the most dangerous lake.

[@moira2003]

Thank you for this. As a former resident of St. Thomas Ontario, I often traveled to Port Stanley and was - still am - keen - to learn more of its history. I am interested in researching Canadian History. This story, so close to home is quite poignant.

[@RailroadStreet]

Thank you! It is one story I am also very intrigued by. I hope you found this video informative.

[@DamnDirtyIrish]

I think you and I are the only ones who'll admit being from St. T.

[@jackuin3387]

@@DamnDirtyIrish I live there too unfortunately

[@sharonwhiteley6510]

Being a HART, I hope that one day his ship will be found. He'll rest better knowing his shipmates have been found.

[@bigglilwayne7050]

Any relation to Stu?

[@jandoerlidoe3412]

They died because the necessary investments of a stern gate and adequate navigation lights ashore where not made... it did not help either that there was no wireless set on the ship - delayed for good-....

[@Ben-go1iq]

It seems the number one rule for Great Lakes shipping is never get on the last trip before winter layup, at least a dozen well known ships have sunk on the last one before winter layup

[@bookcat123]

“It was the last run of the season on the Great Lakes” is like opening with “When I was young and stupid” - you just know this story won’t be going well. And adding that they set sail into a winter storm? Like adding that everyone was drunk…

[@johnwick-ii6il]

The are a handfull of sonar videos showing unknown sunken steamers / large ships in the great lakes. Perhaps the ship has already been found, but nobody wants to make the investment it takes to identify it.

[@jamesgraham6122]

Even today, many car ferries are vulnerable to what's termed, 'free surface effect'. That's to say, once water ingress has occurred, the lack of bulkheads designed to restrict water movement can create rapid, serious, even fatal conditions of instability, resulting in a ship capsizing. Try carrying a tray of water across a room. The requirement to have uncluttered vehicle decks is a major hazard once the hull has been breached or loading doors improperly sealed. The tragic Townsend Thoresen loss of the 'Herald of Free Enterprise', off Zeebrugge in 1987 was a classic example.

[@pavelslama5543]

Am I the only one surprised at the fact that the designers could seriously make a ship which was not just unseaworthy, but also unlakeworthy, and likely even unswimmingpoolworthy in a rough weather, as it had a huge hole just a few feet above the waterline?

[@unconventionalideas5683]

It was supposed to be sealed right, and probably meant to drain out the stern. It did not work well in practice, so stern gates had been retrofitted to most other ships.

[@vicvega3614]

@@unconventionalideas5683 ok but they didnt have the gates on it, who the hell would go on this ship with an open stern? This was a suicide mission

[@mikepech1648]

I was a boater on Georgian Bay for 30 years. A few times the weather man lied and ended up in heavy waters. Well, 12' waves can get pretty hairy with a 37' boat. I couldn't even think about trying to control a ship with stern full of water in waves that were probably 20' or better. Both the company and the captain were at fault. The company because of ship fault. And the captain should never have left in that weather. I was a trucker. And in dangerous weather we had a saying. No load is worth your or others lives. I'm sorry, but I think there was alot of stupidity all around from what I saw on that video.

[@felixthecleaner8843]

wow - that was extremely interesting - and most poignant too. What made it really good for me was when you read the names of the 9 men in the morgue you gave all their titles - their proud titles. This is a really good documentary. Concerning the lack of a stern gate of some sort made me think though of a recent sinking here in Europe of a large car and passenger ferry 'The Herald Of Free Enterprise' - someone left the bow door open and off it sailed out of the harbour on it's way to England...it got just outside the harbour and the water entering in the bow opening quickly turned her over - with the loss of nearly 200 people. It sounds unbelievable how the events came about that left the bow door open....it almost beggars belief - unfortunately.

[@rysacroft]

My partner and I sailed out of Zeebrugge on the "herald of free enterprise's" sister ship. The wreck was still lying on its side at the entrance to the harbour. I think that all the passengers were on deck and the Captain repeatedly announced that the bow doors were shut. It was very odd to pass by a mass grave, may they rest in peace.

[@jameshudson9166]

we live in port stanley and about 10 years ago we found a huge anchor chain from a freighter about 1 mile east of port. It ran from the shoreline out into the water. The chain was so heavy I could only raise about 3 links so this was from a large ship. we also used to find coal washed up on the beach in this area. Might be worth looking at.

[@jo-annknowles1373]

Hi , just wondered if anyone had looked into this ?

[@timothybelgard-wiley4823]

...I'm an old blue water sailor, but I've been a student of great lakes ship history, I love to hear stories of these amazing ships, you guys do an excellent job, keep up the great work....

[@philvanderlaan5942]

So if you like Great Lakes history have you heard of the two aircraft carriers that operated in Lake Michigan from 42-45 ?

[@timothybelgard-wiley4823]

@@philvanderlaan5942 yeah, weren't they for take off /landing practice, I think one was named the Robin...

[@philvanderlaan5942]

@@timothybelgard-wiley4823 actually the USS Robin was actually the code name for HMS Victorious when it was operating with the us pacific fleet in late 42 and early 43 The Great Lakes aircraft craft carriers Uss Wolverine IX-64 And USS Sable IX-81 Are the ships I am speaking of

[@timothybelgard-wiley4823]

...cool 😎, thanks for the info, maritime history is fascinating to me and the great lakes are special, Melville called them fresh water seas...the wrecks are in incredible condition...

[@philvanderlaan5942]

@@timothybelgard-wiley4823 and Lightfoot said ‘ superior it’s said never gives up her dead , when the skies of November turn gloomy’

[@danzmitrovich6250]

The great lakes are a big graveyard in the bottom of the inland sea full fresh water and boats and barages and tug boats as well

[@richardcline1337]

Greed always wins out over safety! She should never have been forced to sail without that stern gate being installed. That was sheer murder!

[@carmichaeltrainproductionc9663]

Love this history sad story of the vessel but this makes me want to go back to that time when they really knew how to build ships and trains and everything else as a beginning of a new future!!

[@robertway5756]

Finding the crew member later on frozen in a block of ice 100 miles away at the intakes for the Niagara power station is the most ghoulish part. 😐

[@normanhill4028]

To find the wreck, would need to look for magnetic anomalies. All that will remain is the big chunks of iron, like from the engines and boilers. Some good electronic gadgets could detect the magnetic effects.

[@WhiteWolf65]

Mag-scans... with all the Canadian gas wells in the north-east quadrant of the area below the sand bar? But with the high-resolution satellite-imagery available, clear water after the ice melts, and other clues, yes, you could add it all up and get a MUCH better idea of where it is. THEN you drop in the Sidescan Sonar, or a better one with a magnetic resonance head in it too.

[@HarborLockRoad]

If we have satellites with the ability to see through the ground with radar from space, i cant see why we cant find lost ships as well.

[@larrydemaar409]

Thanks for this great video and well researched information. Such a mystery, the “sightings” made it more confusing, hard to tell which is correct. The lack of a wireless didn’t help either.

[@pimpompoom93726]

I hope they find the wreck someday, if only to bring closure. The spirits of the men deserve that much.

[@nicksmith-rz2dl]

Could have sworn it was found in like 2020.

[@jwilliamson196]

Its good to know that the search for missing Men and Women will continue. As more and more search equipment have become available. But its an expensive task. Paul Allen was responsible for the discovery of at least 30 WW2 vessels but I sadly he never made it to the Great Lakes.. Psalm 107:23-31 applies to Mariners all over the World.

[@williamhoffer9277]

Lake Erie is fairly shallow so it's surprising that the ship has still not been discovered.

[@joelex7966]

Having grown up on the great lakes and remembering the Edmund Fitzgerald sinking, I have had a lifelong interest in great lakes tragedies. Most of them start with the phrase "it was the last run of the season". Weather being the #1 factor in most of the sinkings. As far as where the wreck is located, most likely under water and down wind miles from where the debris field was discovered.

[@atomicwedgie8176]

Don't you mean upwind... the debris would then move downwind.

[@riverraisin1]

Sadly, all wrecks become the last run of the season.

[@WhiteWolf65]

@@riverraisin1 Just like when you misplace something (keys/phone/glasses) You always find it in the last place you look.

[@leifjenkinson4039]

The Great Lakes Shipowners Ass'n had the horsepower and political influence to prevent the safety rules and advancements in technology being applied to them and their ships. Radar wasn't required on the Great Lakes until decades after it was required on the seas and other bodies of water. Lifeboats remained primitive. Radios too. So did the laws. No one could sue, as the value of the ship was assessed by its value underwater, so there was no restraint on the owners. The wreck of the Edmond Fritzgerald is a case in point. It was real. It happened. The later investigation, including the finding and investigation of the wreck, revealed that the US Coast Guard made a fatal deal with the owners, allowing them to ignore maintenance of the hatches until the end of the ice-free navigation seasons. The ship was one big cargo hold, no watertight sectioning. Anyone can read the report, and the finding and investigation of the ship, many years later. The USCG took a heavy hit, but the owners didn't. This was before some of the advances, but it laid the ground work.

[@HM2SGT]

With so many occupants of the Lifeboat being snipes, the emergency didn't happen too quickly- Coalers, Oilers... usually The Black Gang aren't able to make it out in time. These men obviously had ample warning and sufficient time to evacuate the engineering and machinery spaces. They obviously didn't have time to go to their berths and get there foul weather gear, but the fact that they made it out at all suggests that the sinking happened comparatively slowly.

[@russellfitzpatrick503]

Noticed another video, on this subject, dated October 26 2020 claiming that the boat has been found ... west of Port Stanley near Rondeau. Admittedly the narrator claims that he's found the wreck 'by getting into the head of the captain' but there seems an answer

[@tgfabthunderbird1]

Excellent work. I have Boyer's book, and I do not believe there was any mutiny. I have heard the wreck may have been found but I don't think it is confirmed.

[@RailroadStreet]

You are referring to the recent theory that she sank off Rondeau and is buried under the beach, correct? It's highly unlikely this is the case because the shoreline there was once a busy commercial fishing dock. Surely if M&B No. 2 had sunk there (the water is shallow at that point too), don't you think someone would have seen her sooner?

[@robertway5756]

Grew up in Erie reading my dad's Dwight Boyer books. So interesting.

[@tgfabthunderbird1]

@@RailroadStreet no, I believe somewhere near Long Point there was the potential that someone detected an unusual wreck in the vicinity, but I can't remember the man's name. My guess is when we are least thinking about her, she'll be found.

[@elfpimp1]

I grew up during the mystery of the Edmund Fitzgerald. The talk around the table at home as to where it was and how it just disappeared. The great lakes may be called lakes but they're, to me anyway, inland seas. And I can recall as a kid going to the beach that the waves were always really big. Then I joined the Navy and being on the open ocean noting how similar it was.

[@mishajoel]

Well done. Thank you for posting. I have been interested in this event for a long time.

[@RailroadStreet]

Thank You! I'm glad you found my video informative. It really is an intriguing (and sad) story.

[@jrd2102]

Thank you for this video. It is giving me another source of information on the use of the ships whistle as a distress signal. Adds to my one question about the Titanic why with a whistle guaranteed to be heard 11 to 15 miles away they did not use it as a distress signal.

[@ryanb45]

This is a great well researched video on the M&B No.2. Great work! Hope we're all able to see the ship located one day and learn what happened back in 1909.

[@RailroadStreet]

Glad you enjoyed it! I hope so too. Unfortunately, I think if the ship did turn turtle and is lying upside down buried in the mud, we probably still wouldn't be able to determine the exact cause of its sinking. Though at least we will know which route Captain McLeod took and which side of the lake she lies in.

[@neilpuckett359]

Just think how many ships are on the bottom of all the Great lakes.

[@douglashurd8652]

Pretty amazing still hiding, maybe an underground earthquake covered it up

[@whydoineedaname11]

The primary culprit of the ship sinking was it being on its last voyage of the season. Seems like a lot of ships on the great lakes are lost on that voyage.

[@WhiteWolf65]

Ah, point of fact. Its ALWAYS the last voyage of the season, because if it was not, the ship did not sink. It was the last run of the season for the ship ~because~ the ship sank. Even if it was its first run.

[@whydoineedaname11]

@@WhiteWolf65 that's the joke...

[@ZombieSlayer-dj3wb]

A tugboat named the jack hit something on the southern end of lake erie , another thing is it could be buried

[@RailroadStreet]

Yes, I recall reading about that incident. The crew didn't have time to thoroughly inspect what they hit.

[@WhiteWolf65]

@@RailroadStreet That is in Mark Allenbaugh's video. And he comes down to a rather small area. But his post was 7 years ago, and no follow-up? Not There, Never got time to Look, or Legal Issues? We may never know.

[@maraudermitchelli]

This video was extremely well done. Thank you for the time you put into making this quality video. You are a great story teller.

[@paulpoppenfuse7071]

That's a shame all those people dead

[@TomPrickVixen]

The replacement was scraped in the 90's! Nobody wanted preserve it, at that age?

[@michaeltutty1540]

Very interesting indeed. Fascinating, to be honest. This is my first time discovering your channel. You have gained a new subscriber and avid fan

[@RailroadStreet]

Thanks so much for the support!

[@silvertbird1]

“Let’s design a large ship for use on the turbulent Great Lakes, with an open stern and no gate - what could possibly go wrong?” So many examples of how a few variables may yield extremely different outcomes; but that’s life, and applies to all of us, only thankfully most of the time the outcomes are not so severe. This was very interesting. The second No. 2 certainly had a long career if it survived until the 1990s.

[@greggaieck4808]

Railroad street my hobbys are painting pictures and lisining to shortwave and ssb iam thinking about getting my ham license I have 4 shortwave receivers

[@Baskerville22]

I would have thought that this should have been a glaringly obvious flaw in the design. Didn't a car-transport ferry go down off Britain due to a rear-end door problem a few decades ago ?

[@RailroadStreet]

I believe so. If I'm thinking correctly that was the MV Princess Victoria? It sank off the coast of Northern Ireland in 1953.

[@amberfanning4547]

That lake Erie has took in a boat and it doesn't plan on giving it up even it's location

[@strawpen37]

That was really good. I love anything about American history. I wish they could find her. Please make another one.

[@greggaieck4808]

Railroad street me and my cousin are going to a Swap meet in September 11 Sunday morning at 8 am in Milwaukee 2022

[@MarianneKat]

It's always that last trip on the great lakes.

[@aspiceronni4462]

I like the way you present the facts about these historical tragedies. Some of these events I have heard of, and have seen videos about them. But none that I watched were as neatly written and nicely buttoned up as your videos. Your cadence and timing while telling these stories is on a professional level as well. Quite refreshing.

[@zeekwolfe6251]

We're talking about a relatively small fresh water lake. Finding the wreck should not be difficult using modern underwater search equipment including self-propelled underwater drones. Also, keep in mind that two atom bombs lost over Palomares, Spain in the 1960s were found not by ships and grappling hooks in the open ocean, but by a guy sitting at a table with paper and pencil, an accomplished mathematician. He finished his last equation and pointing at a map told searchers where to look.

[@davidkruse3424]

John Craven

[@WhiteWolf65]

And high-resolute satellite imagery... if they can see a tank in the trees in Ukraine, they can see a 350'x54' ship on the bottom, no more than 20'-30' below the surface. Just Do It!

[@donaldpepera2928]

Maybe Gordon Lightfoot should write a second song finally and give the other a rest.

[@harrickvharrick3957]

Even when you take a look at the stern of that ship you at first sight immediately get that feel that it just ain't right! It must again have been a(nother) tremendous loss ~ and OF COURSE they would not consider keeping that ship safely in harbor until that terrible storm had subsided. It's both angering and sad to think of all that has gone most in life and value date to such harsh decision-making based solemnly at the desire to squeeze profits out of equipment and men no matter what

[@216Suzan]

Got to say a stern white light but a higher front facing light seams like something else happened instead of it turning

[@unconventionalideas5683]

More likely it was some other ship anyway, due to how far it was. Probably it did turn around.

[@good2golden803]

Watching this while waiting a blizzard tonight. Any company?

[@shopsshire9282]

The Marquette Bessemer No 2- is is like the Titanic or Edmund Fitzgerald of Lake Erie.

[@justbrowsing8482]

Excellent video, great presentation style and a sad but fascinating subject. Thank you

[@fredphilippi8388]

The ship may have broken up into sections, none of which look like the original ship being sought. They sure played with safety standards in those days!

[@W4BIN]

No ship should leave port in rotten weather. Ron W4BIN

[@SudrianTales]

Got to say, the original was a bust but her replacement did exceptionally well

[@briankenney4287]

My father ran a coal dock on the North Shore of Lake Erie during WW2. Car Ferries would come into port off load there cargo of coal cars for transportation to Hamilton Ontario by the TH&B railway for use in steel making. He once told me a story of the loss of this ship (I think it was this one). There are a few things that i remember about the story that might be relevant. This information would be considered hear-say but might be of interest. He said that the insurance company would not pay for the loss until there was proof of the loss. Apparently according to my Dad they did locate the wreck and they successful snagged a rail car with a heavy cable and pulled it out of the wreck and to the surface or shore. The number on the rail car matched the one that was recorded to be on the ship. That was sufficient evidence and the insurance paid the claim. He also told me where the ship was found. He said it was in a deep hole off a shoal that had a name that he referenced (my Dad was also a Fish Boat Captain for a couple of years), but a can remember the name. At one point I found the likely place, looking at a chart of the lake. It was, as a remember, west of Port Maitland and perhaps east of Long Point but on the Canadian side of the lake. Brian Kenney

[@sidibill]

Just found your channel and after watching a couple of your videos have subscribed. Always in for a good shipwreck video. Thanks, you do a great job.

[@lwalker8785]

Amazing...the ship was essentially designed to sink!

[@grahamsawyer831]

great video, fascinating corner of history. very touching details - the two crewmen who died trying to keep the other warm, and the launch towing the lifeboat flying the flag at half mast. keep up the good work my man, you got a new subscriber here!!

[@philstewart2245]

It is said that in a December gale ,if you stand on the bluffs above Port Stanley you can still hear the distress whistle from MB no 2.

[@randyhavard6084]

The reports from all the people could have easily been wrong with freezing cold temperatures and 50 to 70 mph Windsor

[@kevinkral4568]

02:22 *Hulett Unloaders* in the background should aid in locating this photo on Google Earth. Rabbit Hole, here I come . . . Regards, Kev

[@georgewallis7802]

a possible reason for the cook to have been so well-armed: the ropes securing the boats would likely have been frozen, and may have needed to be cut

[@WhiteWolf65]

Yea, and cooks are VERY protective of their best knives. Try to take your wife's best knife, and use it as a letter-opener, or use it to open one of those plastic "safety" packages stores put small things in so they are harder to steal? Watch her scream at you. For Days! And NO, you aren't allowed to sharpen it for her!

[@wanderinghistorian]

The fact the company launched a very similar vessel within a year of the sinking with the exact same name and number is really weird.

[@ripwednesdayadams]

Shit always goes sideways on “the last trip” of the season/before repairs/captain’s retirement etc.

[@charlesmizner3478]

With the tec they have now a days, they found the titanic, it's a matter of someone with intrest Cash and time to do so, it's finding that person(s) that is the problem.

[@eddiechenchen9081]

The money-wanton company should have postponed the voyage till feasible weather!

[@cookiemurderer4866]

Based of the location of the wreckage I think she foundered mid-lake while trying to go to either Conneaut or Cleveland and then the debris drifted to around long point over the next couple months.

[@stephenpierce6819]

,.. seems there was extreme chaos aboard ship in the last moments before sinking. A meat cleaver and two large knives found on the body of seaman George Smith,. In life boat #4,.. the other frozen bodies in the lifeboat tell a story of last minute efforts to abandon ship . 9 crew members who died together in the lifeboat,..look to be the ones in charge of the B&M #2 as she was sinking. Apparently the captain of the ship and his side of the command were out numbered during the melee on deck . Explaining the absence of his body with the others from the #4 lifeboat. The captain and his command were apparently disembarked in life vests during the sinking of the ship,.. during the worse part of the gale force winds of the storm. At least that is the most valid interpretation of the evidence and the Bodies recovered from the B&M #2.

[@carllafrance5510]

Hi guy Excellent Excellent video and Narration ! Just recently discovered your channel and subscribed! I got in conversation with somebody in your comments further down Without repeating myself I have been talking with fellow gas line divers that have dove it today the mb2 it is like a balloon you stuck a pin into it and coverd it with zebra mussles When I dove it in 1967 I had no knowledge of the vessel so we called it the Miller wreck I thought all the coal on the bottom was from its bunkers The ships position is with Loran C accurate to 250 ft 42 24 482 81 12 146 The coal cars 42 23 429 81 17 640 Go to Google earth and pin them Have a great day

[@chrisonyschuk3956]

So have you ever dove on this yet to be identified wreck?

[@P_RO_]

@@chrisonyschuk3956 It6's not that simple anymore, whether fortunately or unfortunately. The laws made to protect wrecks from scavengers also prevent you from diving on them at all. Now you have to get government approval, bonding, hire a team of various experts to oversee things, and unless you can show where it's really necessary you won't get permission. What this really means is that any diving will be clandestine and instead of anything being learned, whatever is found of value will be quietly stripped away and sold for scrap instead of being preserved for posterity.

[@copperheadmarine]

Was it crushed on the bottom in 67? Crushed by ice? I've seen spring break up ice pile up on shore in a west wind, seen it do a lot of damage.

[@chrisonyschuk3956]

​@@P_RO_ that is absolutely true in Canadian waters for sure but only after a vessel has been reported to the Registry of Wrecks then based on its historical significance is pushed to in this case the Ontario Historical Act who then will decide if a moratorium area is placed. Unfortunately based on history the OHA will do absolutely nothing including a Archeological survey to preserve it. To this date no wreck has been officially reported in that area.

[@carllafrance5510]

​@@chrisonyschuk3956 Back when they passed the laws about diving and reporting ship wrecks Laying pipe line in the lake Erie they came across a new ship wreck my buddy took pictures and 2 artifacts and submitted them to prove it was the ship wreck in question At the time he had over 6000 recorded dives all he wanted was to be part of the team that did the archeological survey What he got was a court order he wasn't suppose th go within 3 miles of the wreck These are the best divers with the best gear they could really make a difference in the preservation of ship wrecks What it did is it pisded every body off.any body wants to know where a ship wreck is it is in the lake Since then they found 47 Over the years I have found 9 and a ww2 airplane Evey year the public stumbles on one or two and it gets reported meanwhile we might have already been there

[@Brandon-uz9uy]

Hey please go look at the link I just commented, if you have the time male a video with your opinion on it. If you look up Rondeau park on google maps you can see what he is talking about

[@RailroadStreet]

I've seen that recent theory. It's highly unlikely she sank near Rondeau's beach because back in 1909 it was a busy commercial fishing dock. Surely if M&B No. 2 had sunk there (the water is shallow at that point too), don't you think someone would have seen her sooner?

[@joehindley6016]

She has been in the hands of the government for almost a year now. She is not the Atlantic full of gold, she's the Bessemer full of coal. It's not who get gets paid, it's who pays to clean her up. I sent a media package out to two investigative reporters. One in the US and one down Rondeau way. I'm going to try to get the site fenced off so parasites can't pick at the debris field.

[@joehindley6016]

@@RailroadStreet You do good work. You should do a new video. I live an hour away from her. Meet me there and I bet I can change your mind in 20 minutes. We can pick through the debris field while we chat.

[@gregorylyon1004]

This boat has never been found because it's not where it's supposed to be at the bottom of the lake. This boat must have changed course because of the storm to protect the open stern. It took 73 years to find the titanic because it was 14 miles off course from where it should have been.

[@racheldianeames3729]

PLEASE do more videos on other Great Lakes shipwrecks

[@silvertbird1]

Now I’m wondering if the momentary values cited are in 1909 dollars, or adjusted for inflation. If the gentleman from the fishing company was carrying approximately $50K in cash in 1909 currency, that was a staggering amount - I used an inflation, calculator, would be equal to $1.6 million today. More likely he was carrying a much smaller amount equal to $50K in 1909. I know it didn’t happen, but one could certainly write an interesting work of fiction centered upon that detail. Thank you for including an in memoriam to the lost.

[@WhiteWolf65]

Supposedly there was a sizable amount in the ship's safe too. Then again, 100 years in the water... Handle With Care.

[@SteamCrane]

7:24 - The scene is still recognizable now. There is just a single track on this side of the river now, leading to stone piles, and the notch where the ferry docked is still very visible. This would be a great model railroad scene!

[@RVREVO]

Sonar has improved a lot over the past few years. Just a thought

[@garysmith6660]

Its a pretty shallow lake. Im surprised that it hasnt been found.

[@peregrinemccauley5010]

Tailor made tragedy . Greed and corruption . Nil accountability .

[@jimwilliams4532]

Why is if always the last trip of the season almost every time? Always just one more and they get screwed!

[@unconventionalideas5683]

Because the past trip is when storm season starts…

[@jimwilliams4532]

@Unconventional Ideas Good point! When I worked offshore on tankers in the Atlantic there was no seasons except hurricane season. We were on a 600 foot or bigger ship though.

[@glbwoodsbum2567]

I worked on Lake Erie for 7 years on a heavy rescue boat. And have been Witness to the immense power of Lake Erie. The last major storm we had, which was on December 25th, 2022 was producing waves of 24 ft. The temperature had also dropped from the low 40° Fahrenheit range to -30 below zero ( wind chill) in roughly a 24-hour period. Winds of 70 miles an hour and dropping 5 ft of snow on Buffalo New York. Looking through binoculars, these waves looked like mountains. These are not rolling waves, they are breaking waves which produce immense power. These waves come in fast succession, from different angles, and from different heights. It's like a violently sloshing tub of water. A sincere thanks to all the men and women who work on the Great Lakes.

[@ancientheart2532]

Get Bob Ballard on Lake Erie. He'd find her.

[@ORMONDROPON]

The "Marquette and Bessemer #2" is the single worst name I have ever heard. Why not just keep going? " paragraph 7, subsection b, Rufio John Gotti Elmo Garfunkel the 3rd, esquire model 1983a."

[@specag31]

Captain Robert Rowan McLeod is my Great-Great Uncle on fathers side. The family has lots of history on his mothers side as well, Rowan. Capt McLeod is buried in the city cemetery at Conneaut. Unfortunately, the tombstone is off it’s base and the city bureaucracy is full of excuses. Pandemic got in the way, but I’m going to restart the inquiry.

[@voraciousreader3341]

I swear, when I saw the very first photo of the ship that sank, taken from behind, I saw that gaping hole without a cover or gate and thought, “Oooooo, that’s scary looking, not good!” When I was a kid, we’d take the ferry across Lake Michigan from Ludington, MI to Manitowoc, WI once every summer, and I can remember noticing that the back of the ferry was just like the ship here….I told my mom I wouldn’t get on it bc I was sure it would sink, but then she showered me where the gate was. Still. It was terrifying making that crossing.

[@MikeOrr-n1k]

There’s a few simple reasons it’s never been found: 1) it didn’t sink where they think it did 2) is not in a shipping lane as the middle basin of Lake Erie in that area is only about 80’ deep and a ship nearly 60’ tall and 60’ wide would be a navigational obstacle for todays freighters 3) it’s likely not in American waters as they’re more widely searched and documented than Canadian waters 4) it’s far enough inland on the Canadian side that it was never found while drilling gas wells or by divers servicing them. I remember seeing somewhere else that there’s a magnetic anomaly a few miles off of rondeau, it about 80’ of water, close enough in that well service companies wouldn’t see it and in an area that is no longer and even back then wasn’t really used for shipping. Current maps recreating wind patterns that night support that spot as well, seeing as anything close in on the Canadian side would be washed out closer to the middle and then washed toward long point, at which time it’ll either wash into the Canadian shoreline or toward Pennsylvania. Reason no one has likely dived this area is that getting the permissions to do so in Canada is quite the process I hear

[@rexfrommn3316]

The stern gate obviously should have been installed on this ferry on Lake Erie. The voyage should NOT have been made when 50 MPH winds were on the seas of Lake Erie. The wireless set with a trained operator should also been installed. The crew having a near mishap feeling the ship itself was unsafe should have caused management to install a proper stern gate and wireless set on the ship. Lots of gross negligence to go around for this shipping company. The crew should have refused to sail until the stern gate and wireless set with trained operators were installed. Company management wants just "one more trip" before spending money to keep the ship and crew safe on the dangerous Great Lakes.