The Mystery Of The Pale Wasting - 40K Theories

[@alanmerino9440]

The Ghoul Stars is basically that part of town where spooky shit goes down, and usually ends up with a higher amount of disappearances and/or desecrated remains of investigators. Even the Black Templars doesn't like talking about that place.

[@LetholdusKaspyr]

The Templars were even crusading against a species with odd, undying properties in the Ghoul Stars some time before Helsreach.

[@jonathanwillis2615]

The galactic Bermuda Triangle, if you will

[@grospoliner]

The Pale Wasting devours 1d6 Astartes per turn.

[@hectorandem2944]

I can only imagine a Necron dressed like Nick Valentine from Fallout 4 saying: *_"You new round here, pard'ner?"_* 🤣

[@John-Stark]

@@hectorandem2944 probably one of Trayzyn's boys after they found an old and somehow working computer with Fallout 4 on it

[@darthlazurus4382]

I like the idea of other things in the 40k universe that dinnae have a tie to existing factions. It's meant to be a vast universe after all and tying everything to the know factions just makes it smaller.

[@oscarainekeane]

Yes!

[@theodoremccarthy4438]

I prefer to assume that the Pale Wasting was a unique threat; either a xenos race with warp based powers or an uniquely warp corrupted human force. Some of the source books for Dark Heresy describe warp pacts which can make a servant of the dark powers immortal, but curse them with a deathly pallor. An army, human or otherwise, made up of soldiers who’ve sworn such pacts, would be a terrible threat.

[@jagnestormskull3178]

A technologically advanced Xeno race with psychic powers that produced unique Daemon Engines. That would be an interesting addition.

[@alanaspinall7147]

Or they are something neither of the warp or real space, something else all together

[@Goldenkitten1]

I feel like it being the Necrons is too boring, plus a single Necron Empire, all infected with the flayer virus no less somehow murderfied Twelve full Chapters? I don't buy it. As for Chaos this video is waaaaay off base, unless it's purposeful misdirection it has been stated that there is very little if any Chaos influence in the Ghoul Stars so that just seems not only unlikely but very poorly researched. What we do know is the Ghoul Stars have a ton of scary xenos that aren't encountered elsewhere and may possibly be home to a rend in the fabric of the universe leading to another universe even worse than chaos from which some very Lovecraftian creatures have crawled (this part may be myth and they may just be more scary ass xenos). It's my personal belief that it was one or more of these Xenos that caused the Pale Wasting because ever since then every attempted incursion has usually met their end at the hand of said scary ass xenos. The Necrons are sometimes the problem but again I just don't see how twelve Chapters could be wiped out by a bunch of mindless melee husks and the Necrons also seem to be at full power, certainly that many Space Marines would have put something of a dent in them.

[@cell4224]

@@Goldenkitten1 "12 full chapters". That is 12k marines. In a universe where battles between equal foes are fought with billions of souls that amount is laughable.

[@nolanbaker2360]

​@@Goldenkitten1 if it was the necrons they'd only need one goodish weapon from the older days to do it hell if was somehow a dynasty of flayer destroyers that may work I do prefer the unknown threat either a rend in space or spooky xenos

[@timberknuckle8281]

I like to imagine the star spawned plague was a ctan and the pale wasting was the dying light of stars and the decent into anarchy as worlds succumbed to the darkness.

[@jordinagel1184]

Especially if it ended up being a sort of chain reaction. One C’tan shard is bad enough, now imagine what that one shard (especially if it’s a larger shard, retaining unimaginable power) ended up escaping and, perhaps inadvertently, freeing other nearby shards in the process. Even just half a dozen shards could easily spell doom for multiple chapters.

[@CleoPinto4317]

I think it was a naboscarab plague such as the one stated to attack the kroot in the 7th edition necron codex

[@RobouteGuilliman-M41]

If it was C'Tan, all Astartes would've been wiped out.

[@daisho13]

That's kind of beautiful. Horrible, but beautiful.

[@ianharrison5758]

There’s a possibility that the pale wasting came from an unbroken Ctan named the Outsider. The outsider went on a huge kill streak on his fellow ctan, which wound up driving him insane, causing him to flee the galaxy and return to feeding on stars. This was before the necron revolt so he escaped unscathed. The outsider is very very powerful, but from what I last heard, surrounded himself in a dyson spear type device and is in some kind of stasis kinda just roaming around the edge of the galaxy aimlessly The insanity the of the outsider radiating out as they drift through space could very well have been the origin of both the pale wasting and the tyrant Star

[@5680009]

"That transforms Necrons into horrific monstrosities". Well, _more_ horrific.

[@TheMemphisxlr8]

Ironic how the nova marines color scheme looks like the world eaters, since the Eaters assaulted Ultramar during the heresy.

[@itz_ex0_279]

Another ironic thing is that the Nova Marines Sigil looks a lot like the pre heresy death guard symbol, the same legion that would lay waste to Ultramar during the Plague Wars.

[@benives254]

They're takin'it all back!

[@richmascaro5803]

The Ultramarines absorbed TONS of leftover marines. It's even been rumored that the two missing legions got folded into them.

[@itz_ex0_279]

Rich Mascaro That would explain their large numbers

[@johnnyscifi]

Rich Mascaro the lost, and the purged...

[@goliathsteinbeisser3547]

"...transforms necrons into horrific monstrosities [...]" As in: Opposed to the horrific monstrosities they were before?

[@zenlarrushiro3607]

I was late when the *[REDACTED]* invaded the edge of Ultramar since *[REDACTED]*

[@AreEia]

This periode seems really well suited for introducing a new xenos race. As it would give them some historical gravity while at the same time mysterious enough and exciting enough that GW could make a book series about it.

[@totallynotalpharius2283]

It's what happen when we read to much lore and don't go outside

[@andrewjohnson5365]

Truth and wisdom.

[@trevorberryhill2398]

The "outside" is Chaos corrupted

[@Dima072181]

Warsmith Time (This time the title is appropriate) : There is a potential explanation in regards to what could have easily destroyed those 11 chapters Philosoraptor, an enemy that the Imperium has dealt with since the latter days of the Great Crusade. The Hrud, now this focuses on their specific technology and weaponry, which are designed to decay and rapidly age those they face. We saw with Barabas Dantioch and the Warriors who served under him an effect akin to complete and utter destruction, aged thousands of years in the span of moments. Most of his warriors did not survive, now if we were to apply the idea behind what dwells within the Ghoul stars we can begin to form a basic understanding of how those other chapters were so utterly destroyed. If Astartes were exposed to such weapons on a mass scale they would be unable to fight back against the Hrud, and even if they did their weapons and armor would prove to be virtually worthless as it would doubtful that they could continue to fight. Even the name "Pale Wastings" sounds like you are watching something simply fade away. Lost to the passage of the ages, forgotten by those who should have learned from the follies of the past. Warsmith Phobos Tir, Signing off

[@LetholdusKaspyr]

Nice theory. I was thinking that the Wasting was a thing of Nurgle or Tzeentch, but Hrud weaponry is viable as well.

[@snakeyman5560]

Oh yeah, and one of the survivors talks about how he can feel the arthritis is his joints.

[@nightwingtrp7399]

"They have been known to come to blows with those deviate too far from the codex astartes" *Laughs in Dark Angels*

[@Ajehy]

*Snickers in Space Wolves*

[@morgancampbell3505]

What would the nova marines do try fight an entire legion *laughs in dark angel*

[@carldebellis7310]

*Guffaws in Black Templar*

[@irishmerit]

Glares judgingly in Santales

[@bradprice7470]

Could it be a resurgence of the Rangdhan threat? That seems like a good explanation of 10 Chapters being wiped out, seeing as it is rumoured that the xenocides may have wiped out whole legions and definitely greatly reduced those that took part. The records being sealed. The use of language from the accounts of the conflict seem to support the Rangdhan to me. Also seeing as it was written by Forge World who also made the first references to the Xenocides seems like some good evidence as well :)

[@KuK137]

Yeah, that or enslavers. Dunno why he claimed 'unknown xenos' when there are multiple KNOWN ones that could have fit the description...

[@Aristaios]

think the Rangdhan were wiped out by the Ordo Sinister

[@anari234]

@@KuK137 Because, new unknown xenos is more interesting..

[@AA-dn8dj]

Merry Christmas to you Remleiz and Naerina. God bless.

[@mr.depressed886]

2:04 So basically black Templar’s but they’re ultramarines

[@richardvaldes3959]

Slightly less angry

[@qiushuang239]

Kind of weird since in the 7th edition TAU codex it was stated a Novamarine captain allowed a Tau Shas'o to retreat with his wounded after said Shas'o spared his men a few days earlier, maybe just GW writer incompetence though...

[@LetholdusKaspyr]

The Novamarines are extremely codex compliant, though.

[@clovisursa497]

I feel like Red Scorpions is a better example. Then again, these guys aren't out here killing anyone who isn't "perfectly human" enough like them.

[@trevorberryhill2398]

@@qiushuang239 SM can hate and still show honor, in the right circumstances.

[@trevorberryhill2398]

With the Nova Marines purging the history from their records, I'd say some sort of infection that turned the other 10 chapters and the Nova marines had to grant them The Emperor' Peace. It'd be a mark of great shame or guilt. Perhaps a xenos race built and operated large machines to spread this affliction.

[@leobracken2316]

I think this is probably correct.

[@hinty6424]

This seems somewhat likely, one chapter at a time being turned, perhaps by a nurgleite uprising that caused machines to decay and corupt along with the people and marine chapters.

[@ianharrison5758]

It was confirmed by a writer for GW during the creation of the lost primarchs concept that the idea of them being erased wasn’t a punishment, but a mercy. It’s likely one or both of the primarchs came under the influence of powers they had no way of resisting but still managed to find some kind of redemption in the end. So they were erased from history so their failure would be erased as well. It could be a similar concept with the pale wasting. The 12 chapters would encounter an unknown force, be corrupted by it, and force the last chapter remaining to mercy kill them. The imperium wouldn’t censor either side, but let it all be forgotten, for it had truly not been their fault

[@Mascifin]

I put my money on the Slaugth. Great, little covered xeno horrors... who just so happen to have been written originally by the same person who came up with the Pale Wasting.

[@hectorandem2944]

For the uninitiated, what do the Slaugh _do?_

[@Mascifin]

@@hectorandem2944 They're an old, patient race who may have an interstellar empire spread through the ancient trailing Halo Stars. Their biomechanical tech at least matches and quite possibly exceeds that of the Eldar. They're big on infiltration and corruption, then moving in with biomechanical nightmare engines. They possess non-Warp FTL travel (less horrific, still interesting). "Slaugth Murder-Minds" are described at Rangda during the Rangdan Xenocide, the closest the Imperium came to defeat pre-Heresy. It's the campaign where it's strongly hinted one of the 2 unknown legions was lost. Considering the conflict was named after the planet, not the race, it may have been the Slaugth behind the whole thing. Lexicanum and 1d4 chan have good entries if you want more.

[@TheJarric]

@@hectorandem2944 theyre prominent in rpg version paticularly dark heresy

[@markgirard4023]

@@hectorandem2944 During the Rangandan Xenocide it took 6 legions (pre heresy sized) , the emporer and presumably his custodes, 100s of titans, 100s of knights, thousands of ships and millions of astra military to stop the rangandan. 50000 space marines died in a single battle. In another battle 47 knights from a single house along with numerous titans were lost. Rumor is this is where the II and XI legions were destroyed. Also this is why the Luna wolves/ultramarines/ Blood Angel's rise to prominence rapidly because the dark angels/space wolves/alpha legion/death guard took such horrific casualties they basically were relegated to rear guard for a few decades.

[@RocketHarry865]

@@markgirard4023 And it even got so bad that the Emperor released something from the Noctis Labyrinth on Mars just to prevent the Imperium being destroyed, it is suggested that he had unleashed something called the Dragon of Mars which is heavily implied to be the Void Dragon itself (Not merely a shard but the heavily damaged core of the C'tan)

[@flair541]

The term "Star-spawned plague" brings to mind the Tyrant Star. It does cause insanity, mutations, sickness, that kinda thing. So what if it was not only a Necron/Daemon invasion... but at the time, the Star showed up? P.S. Rainbow Warriors unite.

[@mouseketeery]

Aliens. The Death Spectres' scoot about out that way and they occasionally battle things so weird (out of phase, maybe?) that they can only really be tackled by those who've been through death. Hence the Chapter's 'test' of aspirants requiring their souls to find their way back to their bodies after having been fatally poisoned. Btw, not sure if you've done one before, but they'd be a good subject for a newcomer's vid.

[@danielphillips6825]

A coach of men of iron would also fit quite well as they don't die as their not alive could quite happily drop plages from space and have technology which could be describe as nightmarish there are reasons there left a scar on humanities collective psyci

[@Alpacnologia]

so the novamarines are a) founded on the ideal that the imperium isn't genocidal enough, and b) one of the most codex compliant chapters in existence? sounds about right tbh

[@commie4164]

to lose 10 full chapters in a single conflict would be abnormal for a conflict with chaos or the necrons. but there is one "star spawned plague" that cannot die, and that could kill as many chapters as you could throw at it. nids

[@knowplay3258]

I agree and explain why in my own comment to the video. Facing a hive fleet meets all criteria and makes the most sense.

[@youtubevoice1050]

Tyranids do die, though. So the description doesn't really fit and since they are merely xenos, there would be no reason to hide the knowledge.

[@knowplay3258]

Yes, they die. Then, more times than not, their biomass is reabsorbed to constitute more Nids. But, the passage may not mean literally undying, but metaphorically undying as in a seemingly endless swarm. Also, as I stated previously, the information would have redacted and/or erased given the timeline and dates of interest. The Pale Wasting was in M34 and the first official contact with the Nids was 745.M41. But, in 942.M41, Ciphas Caine discovered a frozen, crashed hive fleet on an ice world. After the defeat of this hive fleet and others, the remains were examined both physically and genetically. It was determined that our galaxy has had preliminary contact with the Nids as far back as M29 or possibly M28. So, that gives evidence that the Nids could have possibly entered our galaxy in substantial numbers by M34. The Pale Wasting took place in the Ghoul Stars on the Eastern Fringe of the galaxy...the exact same area the Nids entered our galaxy. The Ghoul Stars are full of unexplored worlds that could sustain the Nids with biomass. Then there is the fact that 10 chapters(that is possibly 10k Space Marines) of the Emperor's Astartes died during the Pale Wasting...less than 200 years after the War of the Beast...200 years before the Age of Apostasy...during one of the most volatile times in the Imperium's history...it would stand to reason that Imperium would wish to keep this quiet. Space Marines are meant to be seen as the Hand of the Emperor by the common man...an unstoppable, near undefeatable force of the Emperor's Will. Imagine how much more volatile the Imperium would have been if it became public knowledge that a xenos species lurked at the Eastern Fringe headed west that 10k of the mighty Adeptus Astartes, backed by the Will of the God Emperor, couldn't defeat. Panic. Rebellion. Insurrection. The Imperium, at that particular time, would have fallen apart. Thus, they kept the Nids a secret for as long as possible thinking the Imperium had plenty of time to find a way to eradicate the Nids. So...it fits. But, no one knows for sure who or what the right answer is.

[@commie4164]

@@youtubevoice1050 individual nids die yes but they all behave as part of a greater whole, the nid hive mind effectively cannot be killed, only "unmade" through the destruction of synapse creatures the fact that the imperium suffered such massive losses alone would be reason to hide the knowledge of the conflict. 11 full chapters of astartes completely lost? how many millions or billions of imperial guard do you think were lost in addition? how many imperial navy warships and fighters? how many titan legions? it is nearly impossible that the imperium didnt mobilize absolutely every element of its military power for a conflict they deployed 12 full chapters of astartes to. the losses suffered by those other elements would be equal to, if not greater than, the losses suffered by the astartes, with the possible exception of the titan legions.

[@alexchong1757]

Can you do a video about the daemonic entity you mentioned at 12:34, the Mole of Massacre? It must be a truly powerful critter if it gets personally mentioned as an apocalyptic incursion by itself.

[@The1rust]

What's interesting is that in spite of most information being expunged there's still a present need for the Death Spectres to keep watch over the Ghoul Stars which they've maintained even during the Indomitus Crusade so there must still be some pretty incredible horrors lingering or biding their time after 6000+ years. Furthermore, it's enough to even disorient a Hive Fleet so I feel like it's something greater than Flayed Ones.

[@owenbevt3]

Something about the extreme losses and extreme censorship makes me think it's related to whatever the lost two legions fell to.

[@garlicbread529]

I had a thought. Since there is a DAoT weapon capable of turning physical objects into data, how will the tyranids be able to adapt to this weapon?

[@angry_zergling]

Machine spirits I guess? Things as simple as computers and cogitators to weapons as deadly as Titans depend on taking a data input to using that to formulate its output or actions. Introduce the right data and you can get a Titan to do whatever you want. So, they might be able to infest all of the Imperium's weapons and systems, adapting to absorb technology like a computer virus instead of absorbing organic material like a om-nom-nomaknuckle.

[@MachineMan-mj4gj]

@@МахамбетМамыров DAoT era humanity were basically Time Lords.

[@SpencerLemay]

@@МахамбетМамыров Were DAoT humans stronger than Eldar?

[@AAAeeeueueueueueu]

@@SpencerLemay probably, considering DAoT humanity was so strong that THE ORKS signed non-aggression treaties

[@Ed-wu1xy]

One thing I've noticed in all the lore I've ever ready is that no one ever really covers who's responsible for painting the armor. Normally it's said that techmarines are responsible for repairing armor, but do they also paint it?

[@trevorberryhill2398]

Probably serfs man.

[@LetholdusKaspyr]

I would expect serfs to handle the basic stuff, but individual Marines can customize their own armor, within limits, and then there's the artisans for relic armor and such.

[@olenickel6013]

Have you noticed my custom green trim?

[@squirrel_killer-]

I think it was mentioned off hand that it arrives from forge worlds prepainted. Repainting a damaged paint job would be repairs. Some serfs are known to act as assistants to techmarines doing things like passing tools or if particular good are honoured with touching astartes equipment for things like removing screws for the next piece of equipment for the Marine. Painting is likely also done by these honourable serfs. Edit: after thought. I also seem to remember a story where an Inquisitor arrested a squad of marines suspecting heresy. Rather than the Inquisitor and his agents taking away their weapons they brought another astartes who was there purely to accept the forfeited ammunition (the astartes were permitted to keep their weapons to avoid offending the chapter as a whole) from the suspected heretics as the mortal Inquisitor viewed touching astartes equipment as a mortal heretical. Just to point out how big of a deal allowing a serf to paint would actually be.

[@wahbegan]

"That which cannot die" is cribbed almost straight from the Cthulhu mythos, as is "Star-spawned", so i'm assuming it's supposed to be a shout-out to Lovecraft, some eldritch fuckery and their alien God

[@Dahakra]

"Star-spawn" the C'tan parhaps ? Or maybe they were fighting the Slaugth ?

[@Khainite]

Like others have said, I prefer to think of the threat as something that doesn't tie to well established chaos or xeno factions. The 40K setting is huge and brimming with possibilities for horrors, so I like to think the threat was some monstrous xenos race, maybe even one from another dimension or something similar that was far beyond what the Imperium had encountered thus far and had no idea how to efficiently fight. Filling in the gaps with your own imagination is honestly much more effective than just saying "I dunno it was the Necrons or Chaos or something lol."

[@Audiotrocious]

I say the other 9 Chapters were purged at the end by Nova for one reason or another.

[@christopherg2347]

Necrons are the most likely, IMHO. Necrons have a lot of "one of a kind" Superweapons. Just think of the World Engine. Or Gothic Armada 2 and the Nepherus "Dark Throne". And Asimoth, the Silver Worm is at least a possible Necron Superweapon. And the Verdict on the Blackstone Fortresses creators is still out. Also a plague is entirely possible for them to, by using nanites. Just think of the "nano-scarab plague" caused to the Kroot on Caroch, after eating Necrodermis. And the Necron "Nightmare Shroud" sounds like a technology that someone might try to scale up to a "Nightmare Engine". Indeed we know of at least 1 Modification. In M34, they might have still tried to keep Necron threats on the down low. And especially exceptional superweapons could cause undue Panic, so a prime target for censoring.

[@Ajehy]

Makes sense to me. According to the Ciaphas Cain books, the Ordo Xenos was keeping info on the Necrons quiet at least until year 932 of M41, as Cain has to pull some serious strings to let his fellows know of their existence in Caves of Ice.

[@Aristaios]

again as stated why would any records be suppressed or destroyed when other accounts of the Necrons exist whereas it makes sense for the forces of Chaos to be involved and the Inquisition wanting to make sure such knowledge was kept from the general populace

[@christopherg2347]

@@Aristaios The inquisition is a equal opportunity book burner. It is just a speciality of the Ordo Maleus. But Ordo Xenos surely can need a fire too.

[@TonyRedgrave]

4:05 Ah, yes, my homeworld. Desperation.

[@venkelos6996]

I was glad you mentioned that last bit, as my memory of the Ghoul Stars, and other Halo Zones, is that they are often actually much less afflicted with Chaos taint, and home to equally terrible, but more Lovecraftian, horrors. I personally like this, as while Chaos is fun, I don't always want them to be THE bad guys in a verse filled with villains. It would be too bad if the Pale Wasting were caused by some unseen menace; some monsters that haven't appeared in umpteen books, with a fully fleshed out model range, but I lume the idea that there are even more other dimensions, and monsters that dwell in them,, that might even be just as dangerous to Chaos, as to Humanity, or other living things that must exist in the material reality, instead of just trooping around in the Warp. I like the idea that the Chaos Gods NEED the Materium, and that there might be other spiritual threats that they didn't create, that don't answer to them, and that threaten the very thing they need to exist, for their own equally inconceivable reasons. That's me,tm though.

[@-Big_Big]

0:49 wow that helmet is comically big. like waaay to big.

[@Xel963]

I'd like to think ita mix of all three ideas... Just because that'd explain everything & raise more questions about how an unknown xeno race got demonic and necron army running.

[@TheSilversepiroth]

Something that seems to be a fairly reliable the more I learn about 40K lore: when in doubt, blame daemons

[@hughgedney3393]

A very extremely awesome video as always 40k Theories.

[@NetMoverSitan]

(monotone) All hail the Ultrasmurfs. | 2:23 - Enough of them believe it to be so, so it is so, that's how the Warp works. | 5:36 - Either Necrons or a C'tan shard? | 9:44 - Who narrated the factions trailer for Battlefield Gothic Armada II...he makes the Blood Ravens look like amateurs. | 11:08 - Then they'll fight in the shade. | 12:06 - So, something WORSE than them. | 13:05 - As in the events of Inquisitor: Martyr.

[@TerrisH20]

All three? psicly powerful alien race disturbs a necron tomb world, then falls to Chaos in order to fight them off. Conflict escalates to the point the imperium has to step in to deal with both sides of the conflict

[@NemFX]

That was the time they found space Cthulu. The Novamarines survived due to the actions of the perpetual, Kenny McCormick.

[@spencerschaepman7239]

In short: We're not saying it was Necrons, but it was Necrons.

[@unnoticed4571]

Do not forget, it could have also been Hrud technology. Their weapons rapidly age and decay anything they hit, with thousands of years happening in the span of moments. With that in mind, some psychopath yet to be named unleashed a Hrud weapon, which managed to annihilate most Space Marine chapters it was focused on. The Novamarines probably managed to disable or destroy the weapon before it could be activated to destroy them, at the cost of all other chapters who participated in the conflict, and to prevent the spread of such a powerful weapon, they erased it from records, with only small fragments being left behind. (Credit goes to the Warsmith somewhere in this comments section, wouldn't have thought of Hrud tech without him.)

[@internetzenmaster8952]

"Novamarines... monodominant position..." Well I suspect Roboute's "You don't be a dick to us, we won't be a dick to you, k?" passive-aggressive stance toward Yvraine and the aeldari in general must make the Novamarines *_really_* mad then. Something something Ultramarian courtship rituals are weird something something. Also, "wipe all other races from existence?" Insert rambling/maniacal laughter from that pointy-eared weirdo Uthan the Perverse about the Orks being the 'pinnacle of creation' here.

[@Matt-md5yt]

This is interesting thing, thanks for covering it. :)

[@kenju2268]

After watching this a few times, one thing continues to stick out as unusual about this conflict, that being the wording of the monument. Why does it specifically say *unmade* instead of defeated, destroyed, driven back, etc? Unmade is just such an unusual adjective for them to use, especially when you look at the rest of the wording, how it says 'By their mortal sacrifice and unmatched valor'. That tells me whatever happened was the result of something built in some way. Either a structure, device, belief, cult, etc. Really this just seems like somebody made a big screw up that had to be cleaned and bleached.

[@elijahkelley7616]

One theory I've developed is that the Pale Wasting was caused by a large number of surviving Men of Iron. For one, the Ghoul Stars were supposedly once settled by mankind during the Dark Age of Technology. The star-spawned plague could be a reference to the so-called "Omniphage Swarms", which could strip a man to the bones like locusts devouring vegetation. The nightmare engines could be referring to Mechanivores, giant constructs that could literally eat into the fabric of time and space itself.

[@lucasrodillo6739]

The Imperium met with something truly Lovecraftian, and mistook it for some kind of warp phenomena. This was a mistake.

[@ninjabreadman8166]

Would love to see how Robbie G would react to how much these guys follow his stupid book 🤔

[@Skitlless]

I feel like this would be better with Resident Evil save room type music in the background

[@Ajehy]

Not over-the-top epic enough for 40k content

[@TK199999]

Some say the Pale Wasting was in fact the left over horrors from The Harrowing. The little we know of the Harrowing and the Pale Wasting it seems the enemy were Lovecrafting monsters from another dimension other than the Warp. Suggesting the Warp is just one of the nightmarish realms that not only boarder real space, but can break through creating its own apocalypse. Because of how horrible both The Harrowing and the Pale Wasting were, the Inquisition or the Imperium leadership in general decided to delete any record of it. As always the hope forgetting means it will never happened again. Though with the instability caused by the Great Rift, who knows if the barriers to darker places are now ripped open a new.

[@leatherjacket9]

Thanks for the video. But your mention of the Codex Astartes at the beginning of this video got me thinking and theorizing about Roboute Guilliman. The Codex Astartes was created so that no one person would ever be able to control and manage a military force so large, that they could ever pose a threat to the imperium as a whole... As Horus once did. With that in mind, in theory, is not Roboute Guilliman currently the biggest violator of the Codex Astartes. Guilliman currently carries not only all Imperial military might, but also the sword of the Emperor, displaying more power and authority than Horus ever had. Roboute may be the biggest Horisian threat the Empire of Man will ever see. Surely if Lion El Johnson were to return now. It would seem to him that Roboute became Emperor just like Johnson thought he was secretly trying to do all along.

[@soliar5209]

I like one thing about them it they thinking “if every others douchbags die then humanity would thrive” and they are not wrong

[@KadRSP]

Maybe, maybe not. Science has demonstrated that diversity is key to life thriving, so killing everything that isn't human might actually cause life to slowly die out.

[@TonyRedgrave]

@@KadRSP It's not all life, just sentient life. They should be able to get away with that and not cause life to die out.

[@ironwarriors4lyfe635]

A great bit of lore that could be useful to this is the Bone Drinkers epidemic, it took a whole Legion using OP chemical weapons to destroy and this could of been an outbreak of that

[@creaturetransylvania8943]

Necrons are the most interesting skeleton like things I know of.

[@Bullet-ve2it]

I always thought the wasting came from the worms that walk. Slaugth and their bioconstucts are pretty close to what I'd call nightmare engines. And millions upon millions of sentient null worms coveting worlds is pretty "plague of locusts" like

[@TK199999]

The Pale Wasting always sounded to me like a Chaos wielding Xeno race attacking from the Ghoul Stars. The Ghoul Stars themselves are said to be some of the oldest stars in the galaxy. With many forbidden worlds, star systems and sectors. With the Death Watch maintaining Watch Posts among the Ghoul Stars. If there is one thing that is true about 40K is the worst always happens. So for all we know said Xeno race wielding Nurgles plagues, Khornes Daemon lords, Tzeechets Lords of Change and Deamonettes of Slanish. But half way through the conflict, the Necro flayers were awakened or more likely attracted to the slaughter, blood and gore. Forcing the Imperium to fight a 3 front war, one against Xeno, one against Chaos and one against the Necrons.

[@Alpha-zb8sp]

I would love it to be a unique threat, but I think Nurgle is likely the culprit. Pale and waisting are both words associated with him, Mortarian being the Pale King. Plagues are obvious, and nightmare engines could be chaos engines. The Imperium love to censor chaos and Dæmons don’t like to die.

[@AnonymousAnonposter]

Necrons and Death Guard players usually get along and like to play against each other. So possibly both are having some fun together against space marines.

[@inquisitorgarza312]

Perhaps, this conflicted was fought not by Xenos such as the Necrons, but perhaps they were attacked by a massive Nurgle Chaos Warband. The name of the conflict pretty much a big sign as who they fought, “The Paling Wasting ” sounds something that worshipers of Nurgle. The unleashing of a Star born plague that killed many, the destruction of several chapters, and the secrecy of Chaos incursions. All this said shows us that Chaos was involved, and sadly the destruction of the Space Marines Chapters confirms it, only Space Marines know how to kill Space Marines.

[@erdervv]

That which can not die is usually used to describe the ancient ones from the ctuhluh mythos. Considering that no description of the pale wasting exists and that even the sole survivors purposedly never kept records about it, i like to imagine that it was some kind of entity that requires mortals to acknowledge its existance in order to manifest. As long as no one knows what the pale wasting is, the entity can not interaxt with the material world. Once anyone has any understanding of it, it starts to seep in.

[@WarPigstheHun]

Would be cool if it was a completely unknown entity- a past chaos god that succumbed to the marines' onslaught. That gives it the potentially to return.

[@bible91]

Scrolling through the comments and...are we just not going to talk about the fact that these guys are basically Ultra Word Bearer Marines?

[@CAP198462]

I think....Nurgle caused a small scale zombie apocalypse. Probably got the idea after playing Resident Evil 157 : The Recursive Function. What made it really bad is it somehow affected the astartes. Zombie astartes, 😱.

[@Setnja92]

Man of Iron? Forbidden knowledge, mechanical, extremely dangerous. PS: But honestly demon engines sound slightly more possible.

[@TheSmalltownhick]

There is also the possibility that the Pale Wasting might be the result of a chaos incursion causing the premature awakening of the tomb world. A short Necron/Chaos war, with humans in the middle being decimated, would certainly be covered up

[@fakechemicals]

8:09 nice

[@trenchgaming2166]

Could it have been the Rak'gol? Think about it,they are brutal close quarters combatants and use a lot of nuclear weapons and radiation based weaponry, that combined with their physical poweress would be more than a match for 11 chapters of marines if there was a significant amount of Rak'gol.

[@ThexVaultxTech]

Cthulhu. It was Cthulhu.

[@jackiesantos2121]

I can't believe that you guys fought the death guard traitor Legions but that was what I think

[@michaelhowell2326]

Rem, I had a thought I wanted to run by you. Could the Potala Palace be the first sections of the Imperial Palace? It's in the right place and is the only large construction in the area.

[@djgamer5458]

10:05 i can imadgen the marines just sitting around bored and just wandering around with leaches

[@ninocuric5290]

Or it could be something connected to that throne of Death Spectre's chapter

[@TK199999]

Okay now that we know what the Pariah Nexus thing is, we now know for sure what the Pale Wasting was. It was a Necron null zone created by some Necron dynasty (possibly the Bone Kingdom of Drazak before the Flayer Virus ravaged it) that awoke in the Ghoul Stars in centuries right before the War of the Beast. They activated their black stone pylons to create a Null Zone which caused all the life in area with a connection to Warp to slowly waste away. This forced the IoM to attack the pylons and Necron's in an attempt to shut the field off. It does change the first contact and conflict with Necron's in 40k lore. I am okay with that, since this was one worst conflicts in Imperium history until the War of Beast. At the same time so many other near civil or actual civil wars hit the Imperium. It makes sense that if Necron's were not really seen again after this conflict. That they could be forgotten over the next 10,000 years or so. At the same time since the Null Zone was a Warp based attack in its own way, this would have trigged Inquisitional censorship as with all Warp related incidents.

[@ninocuric5290]

It was Choas XD

[@michaelhowell2326]

Do the Flayers actually consume flesh and blood? If so, how? And do they only crave human flesh, or does Tyranid or Ork or Eldar flesh work? And what happens when Flayers meet other Necrons or Flayers?

[@Sigismund697]

I like the Novamarines a lot, despite being Ultramarine successors they keep their faith in the Emperor and His will

[@Asianlolita]

Three chapters "utterly decimated"... so 90% survival rate

[@40KTheories]

Only if you go by the outdated, historical definition. The modern dictionary definition of decimate is thus: Decimate verb To kill, destroy, or remove a large proportion of. "the inhabitants of the country had been decimated"

[@Sleepy_zzzzz]

(( Vulkan lives! ))

[@JJumper8888]

*Stomp Stomp*

[@prismunit2]

A D V E N T U R E ! ! !

[@kaizersorze5199]

Lad this channel is f*cking KINO, the fact you have a women do the 'Serious' s fanatic, she is phenomenal

[@JennFaeAge]

Anyone else feel like the Bloodstar Campaign was designed as a way to stop people asking where the Rainbow Warriors have got to? :-P

[@alecsmith3448]

It sounds sort of like zombie plague to me.

[@knowplay3258]

There is an explanation that meets all the criteria...Tyranids. The Ghoul Stars is an expanse of star filled wilderness space on the very Eastern Fringe of the galaxy, the same area the Nids emerged from in official Imperium records. Being the first time the Imperium would face the Nids, little would be known about them or how to combat them. They would seemingly be a plague of unrelenting and unending of "Nightmare Engines". As the Imperium wouldn't want it to be known that such xenos exist that could defeat 10 Chapters of the Emperor's Avenging Angels and not wishing to cause panic, all records would be heavily redacted with most being erased in their entirety. The name, Pale Wasting, even describes what is left of a planet after a hive fleet has consumed all bio matter...a pale, lifeless husk of a rock that seems to have wasted away without explanation. The first OFFICIAL contact with the Nids was in 745.M41 in the Eastern Fringes of the galaxy. But, we also now know Commissar Cain found a hive fleet frozen on Nusquam in 942.M41 that was believed to have crash landed in M35. However, later study of the remains of this hive fleet and others shows the Nids very likely could have made incursions into our galaxy as far back as periods before the Unification Wars. All of this fits the known criteria of the Pale Wasting.

[@knowplay3258]

It also seems that in most early encounters with the Nids(and many, many subsequent encounters) the Ultramarines and it's successor chapters have been at the forefront of combating the hive fleets. So it would stand to reason that the Nova Marines, the most Ultramarine-ish successor chapter of the Ultramarines, would be the only survivors of the first unofficial encounter with a hive fleet. Having done so, some latent or genetic memories(possibly passed on through the gene-seed due to contact with the synaptic creatures of the hive fleet somehow "scarring" the gene-seed) could have been passed on to later Nova Marines brothers and thus relayed to other Ultramarines' successor chapters(via any number of ways from verbally conveying a "feeling" of familiarity with the Nids to outright psychic transference due to genetic link)which in turn unknowingly gives those chapters a seemingly unexplainable advantage in combating the Nids as well as an unexplainable desire to face the Nids feeling the need for revenge, again, for some unknown reason(this unexplainable feeling of having faced the Nids before and need for revenge was felt by the Ultramarines and their successors during the Nid's attacks on Ultramar).

[@Dragunov212]

No no, you’ve got it all wrong, the pale star is just malal’s prison of non-relevancy and sheer fucking dissapointment.

[@DreadPyriteBob]

Weren’t nightmare engines Chaos constructs? That was one of the things I remember from Gaunt’s Ghosts

[@clemo85]

Potentially Men of Iron?

[@ipot399]

Have the Nova Marines ever gotten into a fight with the Hammers of Dorn over who follows the Codex closer?

[@kenju2268]

Did every loyalist legion have a 'Black Templar' group during the second founding or just the Imperial Fists and Ultrasmurfs?

[@Taurox220]

What do you mean by a Black Templar group? The Black Templars were only made up of Imperial Fists

[@kenju2268]

@@Taurox220 I mean did each of the legions have a group that became essentially an 'Angry Marines' chapter. The Novamarines are basically Black Templar, but use guns and came from the Ultrasmirfs lol

[@racspartan1]

Awesome.

[@moarbahdone1803]

37k views. 150 comments. 1k likes. Something's gone wrong . alpha legion reporting in.

[@mykelengieza7057]

ALGORITHM

[@ivanpn6206]

Sounds similar to the harrowing from the forgotten apocalypse

[@luthorcorp0]

Whole new reason to love 40K. The Rainbow Warriors were wiped out!

[@40KTheories]

They were decimated, but not wiped out.

[@kingbaldwiniv5409]

Come on, decimated only means 10% loss, how about "nearly annihilated", or "halved"? It is a dumb chapter name.

[@40KTheories]

Decimated meaning only a 10% loss is the historical definition. The modern dictionary definition (as taken from the Oxford English Dictionary) is as follows: decimate /ˈdɛsɪmeɪt/ verb verb: decimate; 3rd person present: decimates; past tense: decimated; past participle: decimated; gerund or present participle: decimating 1. kill, destroy, or remove a large proportion of. "the inhabitants of the country had been decimated"

[@kingbaldwiniv5409]

@@40KTheories, deci- of or pertaining to 10. A "modern" definition in a modern dictionary is incorrect, just like how Merriam-Webster added "irregardless" recently. If I told you that our bank account had been decimated, your definition requires me to use another sentence to say the exact same thing. The specific definition is 1/10th. Other terms carry vague notions of loss, terms like: beaten, brutalized, eviscerated, utterly defeated, laid low, etc. It is lazy English to misuse decimated. . . but it was a great video anyway! Honestly who REALLY knows what it was? Several candidates, terrible consequences, it is a mystery for certain!

[@WatermeloniusXVI]

@@kingbaldwiniv5409 Dude you know words and languages evolve over time along with their meanings, right?

[@Gormathius]

0:40 EXCUSE? Is that a chibi space marine?

[@thedegenerate9377]

11 whole chapters?! Excuse me what? Did they find an awakened C'tan or some shit?

[@robertclarke7755]

I put my money on the Men of Iron.

[@layzboy81]

Question. If all souls go to the warp wouldn't it have been populated by necron prior to becoming necrons. And if you follow that path, then the soul in consciousness and if the consciousness degrades over time could that not also mean that's consciousness has been happening long prior to the other races the old ones created.... Just a thought. Love the videos

[@Gnomkiller2000]

Could it be a weapon system from the old ones to stop their cleaners in tge end?

[@absalomdraconis]

My thought on "nightmare engines" is "daemon engines".

[@hectorandem2944]

"That which cannot die" immediately suggested demons, to me. Necrons _can_ be killed... eventually. But die they can. 🤷‍♂️

[@owenbevt3]

it would take a lot of contact with them before you knew that though.

[@leonardovergara5620]

R2D2s Marine is not real. Thumb Marine: